Trump Defends Ramaswamy’s Ad, Urges Him to Keep Running It

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Tonight, Donald Trump uses his Perfect Call playbook to support the ad that even Republicans say crosses the line. I would just urge the Ramaswamy campaign to take this down. Plus, from cash and checks to pardons and pipelines, the president's list of midterm promises grows longer.

0:52Also, I do think they have the effect of demotivating our voters. They bragged about the polls when they were up. Now, MAGA is making baseless claims when they're down. And... Is there any scenario in which DOJ would weigh in on that certification process or try to block states and certify? I mean, is there any scenario? Yes, of course. With 12 days to go, the feds don't rule out intervening in the elections. Live at the table, Chet Love, Mike Nellis, Lydia Moynihan, Yemisi Egbowale, and Jeff Duncan. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

1:42Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Do gutter politics have limits? President Trump is not only defending Vivek Ramaswamy over the attack ad that features Democrat Amy Acton's estranged mother. He is now defending the ad itself, despite a growing number of Republicans speaking out against it, including the governor that Ramaswamy is seeking to replace. The ad on its face is deeply, deeply troubling. So it's wrong to run this ad. I would just urge the Ramaswamy campaign to take this down. It's just wrong. But Trump wants that ad to stay put. In a post on social media, he called it very powerful.

2:32And he criticized DeWine for coming out against it. He called him a rhino and accused him of being disloyal to his own party. Then he urged Ramaswamy to keep the ad running. He also praised Acton's mother, calling her brave to come forward and said that it took a lot of courage. Now, Ramaswamy's campaign is defiant and says that it won't take the ad down. In fact, they've put millions of dollars behind it. Here's what Trump is saying about it tonight. It's like a big story about he must take that ad down immediately. he must know the mother is calling the daughter a terrible person and a liar everybody should be so lucky why would you shield somebody from that why would why would we do that so i told him leave it up and look upstairs and say thank you god very much i appreciate it so but that's a hot story today they want him to take down an ad i only wish i could have had an ad like that against somebody.

3:34But as it turned out, we didn't need it. Before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Go to CNN.com slash Abby and wait in there. We'll get to some of your comments as we go throughout the show. Jeff, this is gross stuff at this point. The fact that Trump is celebrating an ad that essentially minimizes and obscures child sexual abuse and rape, that's incredible. But it also tells us a lot about what Trump, Vance, and I guess Ramaswamy are willing to do for power. Yeah, I think it's exhibit A for what's everything wrong with politics and elections going on right now.

4:16I mean, first of all, this isn't an ad you run if you're in the lead. And I think it's a Hail Mary pass he's trying to throw, first and foremost. But secondly, it really puts the honus on all he wants to do is win. And you put yourself in such a negative position, even if you did win the election and be able to govern, to use this type of politics. And then to watch a president, a sitting president, others around him, fan the flames of this. It's just it's heartbreaking to watch America get to where we're getting and where politics. Look, we need to get leaders, Democrats and Republicans, that want to actually lead, that want to actually come up with good ideas.

4:46They don't want to just win an election and spike the football and worry about their next election two days later. I don't understand. I mean, Lydia, do you have a sense of where this is coming from for Trump and Vance? I mean, Amy Acton's mother not only disbelieved her own child, right, had those children taken away from her, but this man who she was married to was accused of rape by another daughter prior to this, which Amy Acton's mother knew about. The president doesn't seem to care about any of that. In fact, actually, let me just play this exchange that he had with Caitlin Collins, because maybe you could argue he doesn't know about this part of the story.

5:28Well, Caitlin told him about it. Listen. What about what the daughter said about her mother? What about what the daughter said? She said her stepfather, her mother remained married to her stepfather who sexually abused her when she was 12 years old. When did she make that statement? Years ago. In the 1970s. He was charged, Mr. President. I have no idea. All I know is Amy Acton's mother said horrible things about Amy Acton, calling her a liar and other things and unreliable. A lot of very bad things. And I say that she's fair game. How do you explain that? How does that not reflect poorly on the Republican Party in this moment?

6:07Yeah, I mean, this is a self-inflicted wound. And I had read a spokesperson at one time said when the ad was coming out that they didn't know why there was that estrangement. But clearly they know now and they're choosing to double down on it. They knew. It's either not doing adequate research or knowing. There's absolutely no way. They know at this point. There's no way because Amy Acton has talked about it in this campaign. And Ramaswamy has diminished her history of sexual abuse in this campaign. That's on tape. This is a self-inflicted wound because at this point in the campaign, you should be talking about the issues.

6:43And it completely undermines any of Vivek's very valid criticisms about her record as essentially COVID's are there, trying to shut down businesses. And now it's completely on this decision to run a very inflammatory ad. And I don't know why they didn't back away from this. and try and issue a pledge. But I would think, you know, in fairness to the president and to VP Vance, they're simply being loyal to somebody that's been extremely loyal to them. So we certainly understand their position. However... Is that... I mean, should we be being fair to the president and J.D. Vance when they're defending a woman who covered up the sexual abuse of her own daughter?

7:23I'm not sure that fairness is what is owed to them. Fairness is what's owed to Amy Acton, who is the actual victim. Well, certainly understand there's no defense of the actual video. And Vivek Ramaswamy should be paying more attention to Governor DeWine, who has a great approval rating in the state, where Vivek Ramaswamy right now, according to Henry here at CNN, has a negative 25 points with independence and he needs to be winning independence. So clearly, as we think about getting back to this election, there absolutely needs his campaign. This is, as you said, a complete wound that doesn't make any sense.

8:03And it's completely undermining the momentum that he needs to win over these independent voters. He had no momentum. He was totally flat. And he leaned into the storyline of a narcissistic woman. And it is disappointing to see, especially from J.D. Vance, because he has his own relationship, very turbulent relationship, with a mother who went through addiction issues. And now here, Amy Acton had a very well-known, documented, rocky estrangement from her own mother. And what he's done is he's lit$4 million on fire and thrown it to the Democratic side because I've watched video after video of mothers hugging Amy Acton and saying, I am so sorry.

8:41I understand that politics is tough. Everybody at this table works in politics, but this was a level of cruelty that I think is just really incomprehensible. So CNN's Lauren Fox spoke to some Ohio voters about this, and let's just play what they had to say.

8:59It's just horrible. And I don't want that type of person making decisions about my life. It just made me feel that he is not a good leader at all. I'll be voting for Amy Acton, and it's just gotten a little ugly in the last couple of days. So that makes kind of seals the deal for me. I hope it's going to backfire on him, like the tone from the top, like the president sets the tone for this country and him slurs and name calling. And it's just can we just get back to like neighborly decency? You know, it's interesting because maybe there's an argument that if people just see the ad, they put four million dollars behind it.

9:44they see the ad, they don't see the pushback because maybe the pushback doesn't penetrate as deeply, they'll be fine. But it seems to me that the pushback is penetrating maybe more deeply than the ad itself at this point because of the president's comments. Well, not only is it penetrating in Ohio, it's penetrating nationally right now. You have other candidates in other states like Ashley Hinson in Iowa who are being forced to answer for this. And let's just be clear, the only reason you ever run an ad like that is because you're down and you think you're going to lose. Hail Mary is the exact way to describe it.

10:12A way to burn your reputation. What reputation? I mean, Vivek Ramaswamy is a grifter and a scam artist. Like he's a scumbag and he never should have been in this position in the first place. Republicans should have nominated somebody who knew what the hell they were doing. This is a really gross ad. And I've been working in politics for two decades. I've run a lot of ads that I frankly wasn't proud of. I've seen a lot of attacks I thought were gross in the Democratic Party and in the Republican Party. This is the worst ad I've ever seen. And the fact that basically the entire Republican leadership is rallying around it.

10:38There's no defense of that. I can appreciate loyalty to your party, but this goes way too far. And I think especially for men who work in this space, we have a responsibility to speak out and say that this is wrong, because I'm actually horrified that nobody on Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign has resigned over this. That's actually a very interesting point. I mean, on the loyalty piece, J.D. Vance framed it that way earlier this week. Listen.

11:01I have to admit that I'm a little bit disgusted when I see Republicans across the country who are whining more about that advertisement than they are about what the congressional Democrats and other Democrats want to do to the United States of America. Politics is a tough business. And my message to my fellow elected Republicans is if you actually believe in the things you say you believe in, stop whining about an advertisement and go win the race in 13 days. So, Jeff, he is disgusted that people are pushing back on a disgusting ad. But you might also remember that he acknowledged to Dana Bash when he made up stories about Haitians in Springfield that sometimes you have to say things like that to get people's attention.

11:48And then when a group of young Republicans were chatting with Nazi memes, he dismissed that too and said, why ruin those young men's lives? Does J.D. Vance have a problem with this kind of politics being his calling card? J.D. Vance just wants to be in the cool kids club. I mean, that's all he wants to do. He'll do and say anything. And we've seen him talk negatively about Trump, about as negative as anybody in the Republican Party, and then flip and be his vice president. and we watch him lie about these other issues. J.D. Vance, but I think this speaks to the problem. This isn't just about Ohio.

12:22The shrapnel is flying much further than Ohio. The shrapnel is now going to show up in debates and other Republican primary, other general election primary or general election debates and interviews because how do these folks want to, Republicans want to have to defend this type of stuff or defend gas prices or defend inflation or defend a stock market? Well, in fairness, I think if we defend in a state like Ohio, Governor Wyne, We have a 3.4 percent unemployment rate in Ohio, while the national unemployment rate's over 4.3 percent. So there's a lot of great things. The governor of that state, when he won, won 32 percent of the African-American vote in that state.

13:00So you have a Republican who's getting significant support from all communities. Mike DeWine did look and smell like Donald Trump. Right. But you have a Republican candidate who's undoing all of that progress right now, both at the national level with Donald Trump, but also Vivek Ramaswamy, who's not up for the job. And I want to just add to something that you just said, because I think there is a broader problem here. Like, Vivek Ramaswamy is not the only problematic candidate in Ohio, not the only candidate that, frankly, is a scumbag. Like, Max Miller's out there credibly accused of beating his wife, breaking his dollars, collarbone.

13:25Donald Trump is standing behind him because he's basically his protege. So Republicans are refusing to police their own when they are abusive against women. And Democrats, hold on, let me finish my point. It's a little rich, the pearl clutching from a party that you embraced Graham Plattner until the polling. And is Grant Plattner on the ballot? Until the polling showed that he couldn't win. The Nazis had to sign the Republican allegations. I mean, Donald Trump is an adjudicated rapist found liable in the sexual assault of E. Jean Carroll. People who've said that and claimed that he raped somebody actually have to pay a settlement.

13:52He didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said adjudicated rapist. This is a party that last year elected somebody who fantasized about killing Republican children. And it's not on the ballot right now. You have an opportunity to make... He won. He won the primary, but we made the decision. Same thing with Eric Swalwell. We police our own when it gets too far. Republicans don't do that. I'm not happy with the way Grant Plattner was handled either. But you guys don't police your own. It's not about policing our own. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the voters are going to police and the voters are going to make.

14:15You guys have a responsibility as leaders in your party to stop this stuff from happening. Ultimately. And also, I mean, the president could have just stayed out of it. Yeah. And not only did he not stay out of it, but he defends the ad. He defends the decision to put that out there. There's a difference between, well, let the voters decide. And, oh, what a great ad. you better thank God that it came down from heaven like manna to help your campaign. Those are different things. Absolutely. But again, Abby, when we think about what the president is actually doing and going around the country, he's not going out and trying to go get independents or swing voters.

14:52He's trying to rally his base. So it's okay because he's rallying his base? Is that how we're rallying Republican voters now with an ad that diminishes child rape? Again, the actual ad. And discrediting a popular Republican governor, to your point. You talked about unemployment being down. You talked about the 32 % of voters that he was able to get in the black community. He's a popular Republican governor. He has denounced the ad. And Trump supported the ad and also denounced the governor. But there's also something beyond just, like, the politics of this. Like, this is just disgusting. Like, J.D.

15:22Vance has four kids. What kind of role model is J.D. Vance if he's not going to stand up to this stuff? Like, I have a seven-year-old son. I spend a lot of time thinking about how I don't raise him to be a scumbag like some of these people. J.D. has to defend this and to defend, you mentioned the Nazi text messages from the Republicans, too. He defended that. Like, he's just not a good dude. Look, I think the simple answer at the end of the day is this ad is indefensible, but there's still a lot. But they're defending it. Well, again, I can't. You're saying it's indefensible, but they're defending it, and then you're defending them.

15:46No, the governor has renounced it, and many Republicans have also renounced it. All right. Next for us, Donald Trump's list of promises gets longer the closer America gets to these midterms. But are any of them actually realistic? Plus, it's a new refrain by MAGA. The polls are all fake, meant to suppress Republican turnout. We'll discuss.

16:15Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. My guest is Lil Jon. He's a rapper, DJ, and producer known for hits like Get Low and Turn Down for What. In February 2026, his 27-year-old son Nathan went missing near Nathan's home in Georgia. Three days later, his body was found in a pond nearby. Lil Jon has a memoir that just came out called I Only Shout So You Can Hear Me. It takes time to heal. And I kept myself busy that I didn't let myself mourn. I needed to laugh again. I needed to be silly and interact with people and feel other people's energy and make people happy, too.

17:00We have to share so other people can see that they can get through it, too. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. You may have noticed gambling doesn't require a casino anymore. you can just open up your phone. It's designed to keep us coming back or maybe never even leaving in the first place. We're going to talk to Dr. Timothy Fong, co-director of UCLA's gambling studies program. You're going to learn what your brain is really chasing when you place a bet, and also importantly, how to keep the game from playing you.

17:41Gambling addiction, gambling disorder is the hidden addiction. You can't smell it, you can't taste it, you can't see it, you can't have a urine drug test. Who are we talking about here, Professor? Who's the most likely demographic to be affected by this? Literally any single human on Earth. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts.

18:04Tonight, the fine line between a campaign promise and a bribe. Democrats are accusing President Trump of obscuring that line. He has put the money in the pockets of some voters in the form of rebates and refunds just a few weeks before the election. And he's even pledging more if Republicans win. And now he's making more specific and conditional promises for the states that he's campaigning in. Listen. I just sent out nearly one million refund checks for$500 each. 20 million seniors on Medicare will soon be receiving a deposit of nearly$100 directly into their bank accounts. I am going to give all adult citizens in the United States of America$5 ,000.

18:53It's only if we win. We got to win. If the Republicans win the Department of War, we'll be investing$100 million in the pharmaceutical company Anthea. If we win the House and the Senate, I am directing the Department of Justice to settle all remaining legitimate claims as soon as possible. With Roger Marshall in the Senate, we will make year-round E15 permanent. But if Adam Hamilton is in, I'm not doing it. That's it. It's quite the strategy there, Yama. The president seems to be saying, well, I'll help you, but only if you vote for me. I love it all. I mean,$5 ,000, clean water, helping farmers.

19:40Sounds good. Do it now. There is nothing preventing the president from acting on those things right now. There is a president, President Biden, that passed the Chips and Science Act in August 2022, to pass the bipartisan infrastructure act, IRA, and Republicans took those wins, even though they didn't vote for them, and they went to their districts and their states during the midterms and campaigned on that. And we were fine with that. We were a little annoyed, but we were fine with that. Watching Tommy Tuberville talk about broadband infrastructure in Alabama when he directly voted against it.

20:13Okay, that's fine. That's the way politics works. We still passed the legislation. We didn't wait until after the midterms when it would have been more advantageous than giving wins to Republicans to talk about at home. So it's a bit odd to me that the president is holding back aid from key groups like farmers just so that he can have a win if anything happens after the midterms. It sounds kind of like a threat to voters. Well, it's certainly not a threat. It's normal for a president to go out and articulate to the American people the benefits of supporting him and his party in terms of what they're going to be able to accomplish.

20:44Yeah, but I just told you that we did things before the midterms and gave you all an opportunity to tout wins. you didn't even vote for. I'm saying the president can do that now. What we are seeing across this country is that President Trump has an agenda. President Trump was able to lower prescription drug prices in the last year by 3%. That's the biggest decline since the 1960s. Now do gas, diesel, groceries, housing. Do the rest. Well, we can talk about housing. Purcell came out with a poll, actually, over the last six years that have said Republican and red states have put on almost double the amount of housing that blue states have.

21:22That's going to increase the housing supply and lower costs. I guess if things are so great in red states right now, why are you guys running for your lives in states like Kansas and Texas? At the end of the day, what President Trump has made very clear is that, yes, you are going to have a temporary price spike because we didn't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And Iran was nowhere near having a nuclear weapon. Tulsi Gabbard herself said that. That's a lie that the administration has been telling this entire time. We can have a debate on Iran and national security, But the issue right now for American voters is that they want to have safety.

21:50And President Trump has closed the borders. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. The American people would like to be able to afford their bills. That's what they want. President Trump has closed the borders. Can you admit that President Trump has closed the borders? I mean, you're just throwing out talking points right now. You're not going to admit that President Trump has closed. The border is closed. Congratulations. Thank you. And can you admit that President Biden had millions of dollars? We're getting a little off track here because I think the issue also is that Trump is saying, I won't do things like ensure that you have clean water or disaster relief funds unless you vote for me.

22:22I mean, he is tying disaster relief aid to voting for Republicans. I can't think of a I can't think of a president who's done that. Well, there was one politicization of FEMA, and that was in North Carolina. Hold on. That happened. Lydia, by the president of the United States? It was not by the president, but there is one politicization. That conversation doesn't... Trump made a comment and said, just kidding. Look, I think what's interesting is that Trump offering$5 ,000 is construed as a bribe. What is Medicare for All? What is student loan forgiveness? What is any of the entitlements? Medicare for All, by definition, is Medicare for All.

23:02Democrats have no leg to stand on. I don't understand how that works. And it's a$5 ,000 check for all. So Democrats have no leg to stand on. They're criticizing Trump for bribing people saying, I'm going to do all of these things, give you free things. And that's their entire platform. Since FDR, their entire platform, every single election is vote for me and I give you free things. But isn't that what Republicans are supposed to be running against? I mean, aren't Republicans running against giving handouts to people for free? It's not a handout. But you know what's funny? Why is it not a handout?

23:33It's a lot cheaper than Medicare for all. Listen, it's not a handout when the Republicans do it, but if the Democrats have any idea, it's definitely a handout. All of those things are going to cost$200 trillion over the next 10 years. Why would any American believe... No, but it's just how can you be critical when that's literally all you do is offer a free thing? Why would any American believe anything that Donald Trump or any of his defenders say when Donald Trump has promised a doze check, he's promised me a tariff check, he's promised me a thousand other things. Grocery prices are going to go down on day one.

23:57I'm going to make everything less expensive. I'm not going to launch more forever wars in the Middle East. He's lying about everything. Donald Trump has sealed the deal on being the ultimate snake oil salesman of the central. It is what it is. But I think the most interesting thing is in those rallies that we're watching and make all these unfounded promises and bribes or whatever we want to call them, there's sitting Republicans elected that are on the campaign trail that would be rather eating a bowl of vomit than having to share a stage with Donald Trump in that particular moment. He could offer a billion dollars to everybody, and only 35 % of people are going to actually believe him.

24:27That's the MAGA crowd. The rest of the world is starting to ask questions, because, to your point about the prescription cuts, it cost them six more dollars to go pick up that prescription that they saved 30 cents on or$3 on. It cost them that much more with housing. It cost them so much more to run diesel in their trucks for work. The list goes on and on and on. This is a snake oil salesman that's failing, and everybody's watching it play out in real time. I think, one, that's a fair mischaracterization. So let's just talk about the facts. Fair mischaracterization? That's an unfair mischaracterization.

24:52I thought you said fair. No, no, no. So, number one, let's talk about the fact, in terms of presidential promises. Obama, Biden, they've all made promises that they have not kept. Presidents try to set an agenda and a vision for the country in terms of where they want to go. So simply acknowledging the fact that he didn't achieve certain things, I don't think that that's a criticism as a snake oil salesman. That just means you didn't achieve the goal. But let's really talk about the fundamentals of - Make that plural, goals. Yeah, of course, if you don't meet it. But I think the more important point in terms of what we're trying to talk about in terms of what the president has done and what the president's going to continue to achieve is really focusing on delivering for the American people.

25:33Which he hasn't done. The two most important promises that he made in the 2024 campaign were everything's going to get less expensive on day one, I'm not going to launch the awards. He's broken those promises. No, no. He sat on the campaign trail all the time. On this table, there's been consistently, I've watched week after week, criticism of President Trump and his tariffs. But we never talk about the fact that President Trump has gotten concessions from major auto manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, dedicated$10 billion over five years to the United States manufacturing. When does that trickle down to the American people?

26:02It's over time. It's over five years. You promised day one. Listen, these are the facts of what the president's delivering. Can you at least acknowledge that the president has delivered? No, these tariffs are a disaster. Because you're just a hater. I'm not a hater. You're just a sycophant. You were just defending the president 10 minutes ago for supporting the Democratic Trump. I absolutely can call the president out when he's doing something wrong. Give me one thing Donald Trump's done wrong. Give it to me right now. Listen, the last time I was here, I called out Islamophobia and I called out racism.

26:28Good for you. Right? And I stand by that. Can you admit that it was wrong for Donald Trump to support the Vivek Ramaswamy act? Because you were supporting that 10 minutes ago. No, no. I simply said, I condemn the ad. I said the ad was wrong. You condemned the ad, but then you supported Donald Trump for backing the ad. I said Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are loyal to Vivek, and so I understand why they did it. So loyalty is more important than anything else. I don't agree with what they did. Okay. All right. We got a question from a viewer. Josh says, Lydia, what is the policy purpose of$5 ,000 checks for every American?

26:57I don't know if there's a policy purpose. I think it's a campaign purpose. I'm happy to acknowledge that. That's an honest answer. I respect that. That's literally everything that every politician says. Let me just make one note here that it just seems, honestly, that voters are not buying any of this from the president. The question in the poll from The Washington Post, ABC News, Ipsos is, would you rather see the next Congress controlled by the Democrats to act as a check on Trump or the Republicans to support Trump's agenda? Fifty nine percent say the Democrats to act as a check. They're not all that interested in a Republican agenda that is laid out by Trump that basically sounds like fairy dust and, you know, princesses and things that are not likely to actually happen.

27:42I support fiscal conservatism. And sadly, I think Trump's$5 ,000 check to every household will cost a lot less than the Democrats' agenda for America. That's simply not true. Well, either way, I guess we don't know how either of them are going to be paid for. So we'll find out. Next for us, if you don't like the polls, do your best to undercut them. That's the MAGA strategy. Less than two weeks before the midterms, we'll debate that next.

28:20Tonight, with a number of reputable polls showing the Democrats poised to make big gains in the midterms, Donald Trump's FCC chair is warning broadcasters to beware of quote, unquote, fake polls. Brendan Carr isn't specifying which polls he thinks are bogus. But after it was revealed that a self-identified pollster admitted to making up its data, Carr, a close ally of Trump, says that there's been a significant surge in fake polls intended to suppress votes. Earlier this week, it was revealed that Wedgwood Polls was fabricating its numbers and deceiving news organizations, including the New York Times, in what its leadership calls a social experiment.

28:58The organization that discovered the fraud isn't buying that excuse, but experiment or not, it's having real consequences. For years, Donald Trump has called polls he doesn't like fake news, but celebrated the ones from the highly respected pollsters that showed numbers in his favor. J.D. Vance is now encouraging Republicans to just completely disregard bad numbers entirely. I remember in the 2020 campaign, I want to say, there was a Wisconsin poll that had Donald Trump down by 17 points in Wisconsin. Or, of course, during the 2024 campaign, there was the famous poll that had us down in Iowa by three points, which if we lose Iowa by three points or even if we only win Iowa by three points, we were in for a long night.

29:41Those polls all proved to be false. But I talk to people and I do think they have the effect of demotivating our voters, which is why I encourage people, ignore the polls, run like we're down, and try to make the best case that we can.

29:57Or if you're Brendan Carr, the FCC chair of news organizations and broadcasters, I don't understand why he's even weighing in on this, because there is a difference between the Wedgwood situation, which seems to be just fraudulent, and polls that are wrong. And polls can be wrong. Yeah. That doesn't make them something that is nefarious. It's just wrong. Yeah, I mean, what happened with Wedgwood is disgusting. And I think given the fact that they were raising money for these fake polls they were doing, they should probably be seriously looked at and potentially prosecuted for fraud. But it's a time-honored tradition in American politics to complain about the polls when they're not in your favor.

30:36I think what's new is the federal government literally weighing in. It's not the first time that Brendan Carr has threatened somebody. I mean, they literally threatened the networks if they didn't have favorable coverage for the war in Iran a few months ago, which I just think is a huge problem. It goes way too far here. I mean, you don't like the polls. Fine. There have been some polls that are wrong. I would note that in the last two midterm elections, the polls were roughly accurate. Four years ago, the polls were actually favored for the Republicans by, I think, about a point and a half. A year ago, the polls were more favored towards the Republicans by 10 points, I think, in Virginia and five points in New Jersey.

31:03Might need to flip those if I got them wrong, but it was pretty bad. I just don't understand why Carr is weighing in other than just to threaten the media, which he loves to do. Well, don't you think that's a little bit unfair, though, in this, because when we look at the facts, what he did in that tweet, and then he continued to tweet, he showed the New York Times had to withdraw about 15 of those polls. So they were posting. Which they did the right thing. Which they did the right thing. But we have to admit those are facts. We also had median strategies earlier this year that came out and they got exposed for doing fake polls.

31:32So it's not like. Right, but the polling industry is the one who discovered those fakers. Exactly. So I simply say there are actual facts of people making these fake polls and you have the media that actually ran with these polls and you've had candidates use these polls. So all we're simply saying is holding social media companies and media companies to all the same standard is to not promote mis-disinformation. But who's holding social media companies accountable for disinformation? No one. Literally no one. Well, that's not true. I mean, there are trust and safety divisions that are out there in these organizations.

32:04That work for the social media companies. My point is, and I think this is Mike's point, Look, there's a difference between the New York Times making a mistake, polls being wrong, and Brendan Carr basically saying that if you suppress our voters, we're going to come after you. The government is going to come after you. Well, but I think if we harken back to 2018, we saw Bernie Sanders and 11 other Democrats that urged the FCC to go after Sinclair and do its own similar investigation of its broadcasting practices. So this is not simply a Republican or a Donald Trump issue. This is something that's been traditionally done.

32:39And I think being a lawyer. I mean, that's a separate issue. I mean, the issue that Bernie Sanders and others had with Sinclair was about the consolidation of media, which is an antitrust issue. What I'm talking about is perspective, right? Does the government get to say which polls they like and which polls they don't? Which polls suppress their voters and which polls don't? That's what's at issue here. Right. J.D. Vance is right on one thing. everybody should operate as if they are behind. 100%. And I feel the worst in the situation for Mallory McMurra, whose entire campaign infrastructure completely collapsed because of polling that showed her in the single digit.

33:17And there's like another subset to this story in that within the Democratic Party, it felt like a lot of these polls were pushing more progressive candidates as possibly winning, like in Wisconsin with Francesca Hong, up 23 points from David Crowley, which is absolutely ridiculous when you look at our platform. And some general election polls too that just didn't line up. Right. Right. So the polling in itself, I think it is fair to say to feel a distrust about the polling. I felt very blindsided by polling when it came to Trump and Hillary, because I very much leaned into the fact that there was no way that he could win.

33:48I understand that portion. It's like you always take it a step too far. Then when you have the FCC commissioner come in and talk about punishing everyone because of polling, polling isn't anybody's fault. but the people who, like you said, should possibly be prosecuted for these fraudulent polls, which they bet on as well. That's a whole other piece of that. But again, I don't think that he came in and he said specifically, if you do a bad poll that we don't like, we're coming after you. He simply provided a very clear statement about making sure that you're following a process. It's like a threat with a lower case.

34:24And there's a legal standard to do that. When he talks about a suppression poll, what is he talking about? Well, I think all of us at this table and a majority of Americans are hopefully mature enough to know that a government agency should not put its thumbs on the scales of an election. Right. That we should all be mature enough, Democrat, Republican, independent and everything in between. I think there's two headwinds to polling going on. One, I've been probably the only one at this table that has been both a Republican and a Democrat. I've been in the front row of both parties and they're both guilty of synthetically trying to engineer a poll to help themselves.

34:53Right. I think we all are mature enough to know that. The other thing is polling is harder than ever these days. People are not answering their phones the same way. It's tougher to reach in. I think it's tougher with social media. There's so many. I think there's an inherent challenge to polling as a whole. And then you layer on, you know, trying to force polls that really aren't 100 percent scientific or accurate. And then you layer on the government leaning into it. It's a disaster. Can I can I circle back to something that Chet said just a moment ago, which is about social media companies and the need for them to limit the polls that Republicans don't like?

35:24Because I thought that was an extraordinary thing to say when. Let me finish my point. You tell me why I'm wrong. is that Republicans have been complaining about, I don't know, social media companies going after COVID disinformation, going after disinformation in the wake of the January 6th insurrection, going in the wake of that horrible hurricane in North Carolina where a lot of right-wing outlets were posting stuff that was fake. And you guys were outraged. And it was free speech. And we're free speech absolutists. And what's amazing to me is like the minute you guys get power, you don't believe in the First Amendment anymore.

35:49Like even if there's a bad poll that you don't like and it gets posted by me on social media, I still have the right to post it. No, listen, that's not, that's absolutely not what I said, first of all. That's what it sounded like. Well, I mean, of course. I'll give you a chance to correct it because I believe you. We've already established that you're a hater, so we understand. Okay. Listen, if you're going to call me a hater of Donald Trump, I will own that. I'm going to respond to what he said. I will, I will. Quickly, very quickly. Okay, really quickly, what I will simply say is I think the government was making it very clear that there's a standard that needs to be followed, and they're simply asking everyone to follow that standard.

36:17There is no standard, okay? But just to be clear, there's no domain in which the FCC is monitoring which polls are broadcast and which are not. Correct. There is no role for the FCC in policing polling in America. Well, with respect, Abby, I would disagree in that the FCC does have a legal authority to be able to have a standard in terms of what information is being put out. And so they can't do it. So you do want the suppression of information you don't like. Hold on, not in terms of determining whether or not polling, whether it's accurate or not, should be broadcast. There is a lot of polling out there.

36:55This is not apropos of nothing, though. It wasn't like he just randomly said, oh, don't post bad polls about Republicans. This is in light of Wedgwood, which is fabricating information, and it's the second time it's happened this year. So it wasn't like he just randomly posted that. Just to be clear, if everyone broadcast these polls, knowing that they're not going to be broadcast, they were fake, this would be a different conversation. But that was not the case. It was not known that these polls were fake. So those are two completely separate things. And are we going to have to run our polling by the FCC chair to determine whether it's fake or real before we can broadcast it?

37:33No, we are not. And there's no evidence that anybody willfully used polling that was fake. Nobody did it on purpose except for Wedgwood. So what is the FCC chair's role here? I don't see one. I really don't. Well, he also has free speech. All right. Next for us, what the attorney general is saying today about the DOJ intervening in the upcoming elections and who he says he works for. We'll debate that next.

38:10Tonight, as the Department of Justice escalates its voter roll demands, Attorney General Todd Blanche says that he's not going to rule out blocking states' election certification. Listen. Is there any scenario in which DOJ would weigh in on that certification process or try to block states in church. I mean, is there any scenario? Yes, of course, there's scenarios that we could all come up with, hypothetically, you know, some doomsday scenario, for example, right? So I don't think it's proper to make any kind of conclusory statements about what's going to happen in the future, because I have no idea what's going to happen in the future.

38:47It is not DOJ's intention to, and it's never our intention, to improperly interfere with elections or the state confirmation process or certification process. But, you know, to say that there's no circumstances that we would ever do that, of course, I'm not going to say that.

39:03I'm not sure what the DOJ's potential role is in this. I mean, would that even be legal or constitutional? I'll just point you back to 2020 in Georgia. I mean, if you want to know what the DOJ is going to do, just go open up the playbook and read the press clippings from 2020. I mean, the DOJ worked directly for Donald Trump and came in and tried to invent evidence and tried to upend the entire democratic process in Georgia. I mean, that's exactly what's going to happen here if they don't get what they want. But they can't stop certification. I know they can't. So why would he say that? Because it's about creating doubt.

39:45This is Donald Trump's game. This is the whole apparatus around this. It just sows seeds of doubt to just create confusion and chaos and just wait for the next play, wait for the next play. It's like throwing spaghetti against the wall and just seeing what sticks. That's what happens. That's what happens with the economy. That's what happens with tariffs. That's what happens with immigration. That's what happens with everything. One thing with Trump is you can never say can't because how many times have we said he can't do that? He's not going to do that. He does do something like that. And maybe he can't, but it doesn't mean that they're not going to try.

40:12Exactly. And they might try. And I think that's why it's important for as many people to turn out to vote as possible, make the wave too big for them to deny it, make sure that we're out there and being vigilant. And I think that blue states, red states, just make sure you're out there. Let me play what else Blanche said. This is about who he works for, who he reports to. Listen. There was this misperception that there's this separation and independence between the Department of Justice and the White House. And everybody likes to champion that. And they accuse me of not suffering from independence.

40:44I don't. I work for President Trump. But they did too. They did too. So this idea that Garland was just on his own making decisions independent of what the Biden administration wanted him to do is not true. And by the way, I'm not being critical of that. What I'm being critical of is the lie that he was independent. He wasn't. I think the part that surprises me about that is not that he says he works for Trump. We know that he believes that Trump is the boss, right? But where's the role of the Constitution and the American people who are what the Department of Justice is supposed to be working on behalf of.

41:23I absolutely agree with you on this particular point, Abby. I think that around the country, Americans rely on the Justice Department to be focused on justice. And I think that one of the biggest mistakes and one of the biggest stains, I think, on the Republican Party has been January 6th and has been Trump's continued lie around 2020. I think any adult male or woman or just adult general should be able to go out and say Trump lost 2020 fair and square. I think it's ridiculous that we're continuing to have this conversation around the country. A lot of people won't. But. Lydia. No, I have something else I want to say.

41:58Okay. Lydia said not too much. I have another point that I want to make. Okay, Lydia said. Whether or not you should be talking about whether Trump lost the 2020 election. No, I'm happy. My God, that's all we talk about. No, my point is that Todd Blanche is absolutely right in saying the Justice Department is always cooperating with the president. Eric Holder called himself Obama's wingman. He refused to cooperate with Congress and share information about the fast and furious issue with Obama. I mean, JFK rather appointed his brother to the AG. So this is, I think, when Democrats are so critical of Todd Blanche, it's like, guess what?

42:41But yeah, the president and the DOJ have always had a relationship. It's not an independent agency the way that the Federal Reserve is. And just case in point, it's not like Todd Blanche is only just working for the president. Today, he opened an investigation into Corey Lewandowski, who was part of the Trump administration. So yeah, of course he's going to have a close relationship with Trump, as every other AG has had with their president. And he can still walk into government. I used to say Trump doesn't want him to investigate Corey Lewandowski. I mean, I think that's an assumption. And they've shut down.

43:14He fired Kristi Noem, by the way. They've shut down other investigations, by the way, because Tom Homan was caught on tape taking a$50 ,000 cash bribe, and they basically quashed that. We're not about that. Yeah, exactly. I remember that one. I mean, what about the Tate brothers? I mean, they let the Tate brothers come back into this country because they had a relation with the Trump kids. Aren't they a wrestler? We need more podcasters. Right now. Yeah, good. Next for us, we're going to react to your feedback from CNN.com. Slash Abby. We will be right back.

43:44Now some viewer feedback from CNN.com slash Abby. The first one is a little bit philosophical. It says, do you think the Trump administration has changed the American ethos? I do. Yeah, I do. I think it's certainly made all of us a lot more callous toward one another. And I think you see that in the Ramaswamy ad. Just the fact that anybody out there is defending it. I just I think it's yeah, it's made it harder. There was another viewer who said he's totally outrageous and his MAGA followers clap and cheer for him. Christians? I think not. I think the change, the main change that they see from the Trump administration has been meme culture.

44:22And I think one of the things the president has actually done really well is engage with the community. You can dislike what he actually says, but you can't disregard how his communication style has been incredibly effective in terms of mobilizing his base and his followers. Can I address the faith thing just real quick? Like, as a practicing Catholic, there's nothing Christian about Donald Trump and his administration. Like, they're constantly the first ones going after the most vulnerable in society. I just think it's gross. We have another comment. Maybe this is also related. At this point, men need to sit down and let the adult women talk.

44:53American politics makes it embarrassing to be an American. Okay, great. Yeah, I agree. I should talk more. Let the ladies at the table talk more. I mean, we got to talk, too, a little bit. No, no, no. Not boxing up, Matt. 60-40, 60-40. All right. Another one. Abby, there should be a rule at the table that what about arguments are banned. Biden and Obama are no longer in office, and what they did or didn't do is not relevant to what Trump is doing today. To put a finer point on that comment, this viewer says to Todd Blanche, Did Joe Biden tell Merrick Garland to continue to investigate and prosecute his son?

45:41Well, there was some sweetheart deals and pardons with Hunter and Joe Biden publicly talked about wishing that the investigation into Trump was speeding up. But I think I think I think context with Hunter Biden. I think I think context. I think context is important to talk about because it's not like Trump is the first person to enter the White House. Things have happened before. And when you provide insight, like Biden was very close with his AG, sometimes that can help to... Biden was not close with his AG. Could you imagine a scenario where Todd Blanch would investigate one of Trump's kids?

46:14Like, that would never happen. No, I would not describe Merrick Garland as being close to... I would say, yeah. Rip the moral fiber out of this country. All right, before we go, you can stream the show live or watch on demand anytime with an all-access subscription. Scan that QR code on your screen or go to cnn.com slash watch to learn more. Thank you very much for watching Newsnight. Laura Coates Live starts right now. I'm Adi Kornish. I'm Ari Shapiro, and it's Engagement Party. It is Engagement Party. And we get to talk about what we're obsessed with, what we're engaged with, what we need to process with a friend.

46:46Her name is Amy O'Dell. She is a fashion writer, blogger. But the thing is, she's a journalist who's written about the sacred cows of fashion. And yes, I mean Gwyneth Paltrow and Anna Wintour. She has done biographies of both. And she is also the sort of rare fashion writer who, at this point, kind of outside the system. And so the question that we're going to try to tackle is... Is fashion terrible now? Well, no, I mean, I would phrase it as how do you develop a personal style in the age of AI slop? You know, on social media, like, creators have to try a whole bunch of different things and see what catches, and then they make it over and over and over again.

47:21The same thing happens with clothing. So they're sort of seeding the market, seeding the internet with all of these different ideas. And then they can see what sells and then they can just make them really fast. Follow Engagement Party. Wherever you get your podcasts.