Trump Tells GOP to Vote by Mail Despite Calling it Corrupt

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Are you ever shopping online and suddenly a discount that helps you save pops up? It makes your day, sometimes even your week. Want that feeling month after month? Well, new customers who save by switching their home and auto insurance to Progressive save hundreds.

0:47Cue your happy dance. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

1:00Tonight, after telling Americans that mail-in voting is corrupt, a change in tune for Donald Trump as the midterms draw closer. Vote early, vote by mail, or vote in person on election day. Plus, as Democrats look to expand the map, one of the party's most famous figures will appear with one of the party's most controversial. Also, So you'll be kind of reconsidering this probably every year, rethinking it. Yeah, I think I have to. What happens if a Supreme Court justice leaves during Donald Trump's final two years? And an outgoing Republican senator says he's concerned the president might do something dramatic if the party loses the midterms.

1:39I think there's a risk. I really do. Live at the table, Cornel West, Scott Jennings, Neera Tanden, Jason Rance, and Kareem Hajar. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

2:08Good evening, everyone. I'm Eli Honig here in New York filling in for Abby. Well, don't look now, but midterms are less than one month away. So we've got a lot of news to discuss and a stacked panel of experts and analysts ready to break it down for you. First up, less. President Donald Trump appears increasingly desperate to shore up support. Tonight, he hit the campaign trail in Nebraska, a state he won by more than 20 points just two years ago. The president also is suddenly changing his tune on mail-in voting, despite years of railing against it. Now, here's a reminder of some of the things the president has said in the past.

2:46Mail-in ballots are inherently corrupt. Mail-in voting means mail-in cheating. I call it mail-in cheating. You can never have a real democracy with mail-in ballots. Mail-in ballots are a big fraud. We, as a Republican Party, are going to do everything possible that we get rid of mail-in ballots. And here's the president's message to Republicans now. If your state has early voting, do not wait. Go out and vote. Vote early, vote by mail, or vote in person on election day, November 3rd. And in another reversal, Trump announced on True Social just hours ago that he will no longer use taxpayer money to pay for a series of gauzy campaign style ads featuring himself.

3:36So God made Trump. God had to have somebody willing to go into the den of vipers. call out the fake news for their tongues as sharp as a serpent's. So earlier today, the vice president said that those taxpayer-funded ads are, quote, not partisan. A few hours later, however, the president said he's standing down. So, Scott, were they partisan after all? Well, of course, of course they're partisan. I mean, the ads, some of them came from the political campaign apparatus, and they put a different disclaimer on it. The president's made a good decision here. I actually think the idea of the government running PSAs is a good one.

4:12A lot of presidents have done it. Presidents of both parties have done it. I think if they thought about it in the beginning, they could have run ads, PSAs, on things they've done that would benefit the American people. Say, sign your kid up for Trump accounts or go visit America.gov, the new front door portal for getting things done with the federal government. These things would have been unassailable. And guess what? They could still do it. So that would be my advice. If they were partisan, was it wrong then to use taxpayer money to pay for those ads? Yeah, he should not have taken campaign material and paid for it with tax dollars and put a different disclaimer on it.

4:44Again, I think PSAs are fine, and there were different vectors they could have done here, and there's still a chance to get it done. Neera, what do you think? I mean, I think desperate times call for desperate measures. The fact that Republicans have been critical for the first time of things like the PSAs, the fact that Scott is willing to say that they were wrong, I think is a sign that, you know, people recognize that there's a lot of anger in the country, a lot of anger in the country, around corruption and other issues. And the idea that the president is going one month ahead of the election to use taxpayer dollars to promote himself does smack of really using government to help yourself.

5:19That is a kind of corruption. So I'm glad they've stopped it. I'm glad people recognize it. But we should ask ourselves why the president decided to do that. And why did it take him a week or two to figure out that it was wrong? Well, look, the president doesn't back down a lot, Jason. So why here? Well, he got everything he needed out of this. He was able to air these ads and then have every network talking about the ads by playing those ads. So I do think there might be a little bit of a strategy there. I think he was also getting pushback from conservatives. Not because we were outraged by some sort of corruption.

5:53This is not inherently corrupt in any way. What I think is it's just a part of a core principle of conservative values where you don't want the government spending money on things like this, especially when you've got the money that you can spend. But to Scott's point, it's not like Donald Trump did not invent this. I mean, the Obama administration did this right before the midterms on Obamacare. His EPA did this and actually was found to have violated the law. So that is a case in which the law was actually broken. In this case, that hasn't been established at all. Dr. West, is that a fair comparison?

6:21First, I just want to say it's a blessing to be here with you. We're praying for Sister Abby. She's doing good. She sets a high standard, and you and Sister Sarah and Brother John do a wonderful job. Now, your question was about hypocrisy, was it? Is that right? Yes, sir. Well, that's nothing new, is it? That's nothing new at all. People changing their minds, different two-faced and so forth. But the important thing is, I think, anytime we talk about desperation, you don't think of desperation in a party, but you think of desperation of fellow citizens, fellow sufferers, poor people, working people who are living every month paycheck to paycheck.

7:02That's the kind of desperation that both parties need to speak to. as they deal with their respective hypocrisies. I see hypocrisy in both parties in that sense. Corrine, you've been out reporting in the field. What are you hearing about this? About the ads in particular, not so much about feelings of corruption, frustration with that, just perception on both sides that something is fundamentally broken with government, both with Republicans and Democrats. That's top of mind. And so I think this move really surprised me from the White House. I was the type of thing that Republicans got a ton of pushback on when Kristi Noem did it at DHS.

7:37running these ads in front of Mount Rushmore on a horse talking about different immigration programs. So I think it was a silly political move. And what really surprised me about it was the speed of how quickly the president backed down, because President Trump has made some mistakes before, and it takes much longer for him to back down if he backs down at all. And so that this was done so quickly, I think it was just clear to everyone that it wasn't the right move. Well, speaking of Donald Trump backing down, he's done it more than once recently, right? He had spent months and months telling people that mail-in balloting was inherently mail-in cheating.

8:08And now he's changing his tune. What's the strategy here, Scott? Which one is it? Is it cheating or is it something that Republicans should do? Well, first of all, he hates mail-in ballots. He's hated mail-in ballots for a very long time. A lot of Republicans don't like mail-in ballots because they're inherently less secure than in-person ballots. That's the same. Number two, it's not the first time he's actually called for Republicans to vote any way you can. He did it in 2024. In fact, he's done it in every election. So two things can be true. You can hate a system, but also recognize these are the rules of the game as they are presented to me, and I have to play by those rules.

8:38That's what's happening here. But the position of the president has always been clear. Mail-in ballots, in his opinion, are inherently less secure than an in-person election. You know, the president actually was asked about this by reporters before he got on a helicopter. Let's take a quick listen to what he said about this claim that there is widespread fraud through mail-in ballots. What we're concerned about is there seems to be a lot of, not seems to be, there is a lot of cheating in vote by mail. A lot of cheating all over. I'll tell you what, start off by taking a look at California. Take a look at, take a look at no evidence with millions and millions of ballots.

9:18You are fake news. Jason, where is this evidence? Where is this evidence of massive fraud in California. He talks about it all the time. Where's the evidence? Yeah, so I don't see evidence of massive fraud. Fraud occurs. And I think the president falls into sort of the trap that I think liberals fall into. On his side, he says it's massive fraud. On the left, the longest time we're told there was no fraud whatsoever. And of course, we get stories of fraud. And then we're like, OK, well, now it's not enough to change an election. Fair enough. We would like to get it to the point where there is zero fraud.

9:49And to Scott's point, again, there is higher likelihood or a chance of fraud when dealing with mail-in voting. I'm from a state that is exclusively mail-in. And I've said to my audience the same thing this entire time. You might not like mail-in voting. And President Trump's message has been a key piece as to why so many people are not trusting on my side of the elections. But it's still the system. Work within the system. Vote. Make it so hard, if you actually believe there's cheating going on, make it so difficult for them to cheat by going out and voting and then make any kind of change that you would like to so that we can get to a system that is as secure as possible.

10:27The president just told Americans, though, that there's millions and millions of mail-in ballots. That's false, right? No, they send a lot of ballots out in California. Yeah. He's saying they mail out a lot of ballots in California and they have this system in California called ballot harvesting where someone can go to someone's house and carry that ballot to the polls. It's not the voter. This system ought to be punted into the sun because Because, I mean, inherently, this makes ballots less secure. It makes voting less secure the way they do it in California. And there are people on both sides of the aisle who agree that the system is terrible.

11:00I just want to be clear that there have been study after study of voter fraud. And we're talking about one out of a million, three out of a million cases. So you're right. It's not zero. But the fact is that fraud is something that is almost nonexistent. And what I think is kind of odd about this whole discourse is it's not like the president was telling people over the last like six, seven years. Oh, just do mail in balloting. It's all fine. Maybe on occasion he would say that. But for the most part, if you think that there's rampant fraud, I mean, there's an inherent illogic to this. If there's rampant fraud, then it's weird to tell people go vote by mail.

11:42So I think the truth is that the president recognizes that his statements for months and years, basically, saying mail-in balloting is fraudulent, discourages voter participation of his own side, of Republicans, and he's cleaning it up a month later. And it's what I think it shows is that it was wrong to say this for the last several years. Yeah, I want to paint a picture. I was in Texas last week, and I stopped at a Buc-ee's on the way to the state fair in Dallas. and I took it as an opportunity to talk to voters down there. And I think the message really is spreading among Republicans that they should not trust mail-in ballots.

12:23But the problem is, at the same time, the president has a fundamental math problem, especially Texas is a good example. Ken Paxton's going to need Republicans to turn out in bigger numbers than at least polling is showing right now. He's going to need a strong performance. And so I was talking to a voter and she said, I just fundamentally do not trust mail-in ballots. Well, a lot of vote, I mean, a big chunk of the vote does come from mail-in ballots. So if voters are listening to the president on this and he all of a sudden pivots, well, you know, he better hope that they're listening closely to him because this message has percolated to me.

12:53And I hope he does pivot in a bigger way. We're playing one small clip of a larger video one time that he made. I think Republicans... He says it a lot. I'm saying to actually vote by mail. He's not doing that message all that often. So I hope that he takes this as an opportunity to start talking more about that. We have to get out the vote. But I think the deeper danger is that Brother Trump has a proclivity towards saying when he wins the elections, they're fair. When he loses the elections, they're rigged. And in that situation, you've got a deep crisis of massive legitimacy, whether it's mail-in or not.

13:31Now, we don't know exactly what he's going to say, but there's a possibility of either one of those options being real as we move toward November. Respectfully, because I don't necessarily disagree with that, but Joe Biden also, when he said that if you don't pass the vote-by-mail legislation that he was pushing, that there could be the potential of someone stealing this election as well, or the illegitimacy of it. You said that after an insurrection, by the way. Gangsterism is ideologically promiscuous. It will lie with any party, any group, any church, mosque, temple, or fraternity or sorority.

14:06Cracked vessels. So in that sense, I agree. But in this sense, we're talking about Trump. All right, folks. We'll see. Good conversation. We've got more on the midterms coming up in just a minute. Everyone loves Buc-ee's, by the way. 100 % approval rating on that. Next up, Barack Obama will be campaigning for one of the lightning rod candidates of this cycle, Abdul El-Sayed of Michigan. But that worry Republicans. And a quick reminder, we invite you to join the debate at home. Head over to CNN.com slash Abby and weigh in. We will get to some of your comments throughout the show.

14:45Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then, sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options, so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states. Now for a quick message from Anthropic, the team behind Claude, the AI built for businesses.

15:21Customers count on their bank, and banks count on their most important systems. Now those systems count on Claude, and nine of the Fortune 10 companies use it for critical work. See why leading companies trust Claude at Claude.ai slash span.

15:42Tonight, the Democratic Party's kingmaker is stepping into a key race. Now, later this month, Barack Obama will campaign with Michigan Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed as the former president ramps up his involvement in the midterms. Now, Obama's planned appearance in Michigan is notable after El-Sayed defeated the more moderate Democrat, Haley Stevens, in a hotly contested primary, and after El-Sayed faced significant controversy over his past statements and appearances with the streamer, Hassan Piker. As Democrats work to unite a divided party before November, Obama has recorded two dozen ads for Democratic candidates for governor and for Senate, Those will be released in the coming days and weeks.

16:24Obama also is expected to hit the campaign trail with more appearances to be announced soon. Now, Scott, it's easy to understand why Obama's appearance in Michigan could help El-Sayed. But from the broader Republican perspective, do you welcome or fear Barack Obama's involvement in these midterms? Well, neither, because it's expected. He campaigns in every election. He's the most partisan, ate up with politics ex-president we've ever had. I expect him to show up in every race, in every jurisdiction in the country. He can't stand it. He has to be involved in politics all the time. What it tells me, though, is that all this Democratic confidence you hear right there about El Syed is a little misplaced, because I don't think Obama would be going there if they were so confident about it.

17:06And it also tells you something critical about the weakness in his coalition. He has significant trouble with African-American voters in the Democratic primary. He has not shored up that support in Michigan. They need Obama to try to do that. I'm not sure it's going to be the total answer, but it's not really a surprising development to me. Can I just ask, is Donald Trump planning to campaign for Mike Rogers in Michigan? I believe he is going to Michigan. Really? Are they going to campaign together? Is Mike Rogers going to be seen with him? Because, you know, Greg Abbott tonight announced that he would not be seen in Texas with Donald Trump next week.

17:38Talking about politics all the time, isn't that a little weird that you have a sitting president who can't be, who the governor of Texas won't be seen with? He's literally doing 35 events in like 32 days. He's campaigning all over the country. Not with people in close races. He's in Nebraska tonight. It's a close race. In Nebraska, a state which he won by 25, 30 points. In a state where the Democrats are running as sham independent. The big difference here is that Barack Obama, who is, I think he has twice the popularity of Donald Trump. He's in the 60s while Donald Trump is in the mid-30s. He's an asset to Abdul Saeed, but I think Abdul Saeed has done a phenomenal job of uniting the Democratic Party behind him.

18:18Gretchen Whitmer, Alyssa Slatkin was campaigning with him. Barack Obama will be campaigning with him. And I expect on Election Day you'll see a strong, united Democratic Party behind him that is attracting independence with his message of how he's going to be laser-fragged. Do you think that includes the Jewish Democrats in Michigan? He has a lot of Jewish support in Michigan. A lot. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. He does. Absolutely false. That's ridiculous. If you actually look at the polls, a majority of Jewish voters... Hold on, hold on.

18:45In any data, a majority of Jewish voters have supported him. Dana Nessel, the Jewish attorney general, just did an event with him last week. So, I mean, he is unifying the party. Now, I think the real charge... Is he the one who wouldn't go to the convention because of all the anti-Semitism? I think the issue here for Mike Rogers is why he's doing so poorly in this state. In most polls we've seen, Abdul Al-Sayed is winning by five, six, seven points against him. Kind of like that post of 13 points that he was going to win during the primary. Dr. West, talk to us about how the former President Obama resonates with the Democratic Party here now in 2026.

19:21I think he resonates deeply. I think he's got tremendous support in the black community. But I'm concerned about the moral and the spiritual issues. You've got Brother El-Sayed Singh on the one hand. You've got genocide in Gaza. You've got Wall Street bailed out and you've got single payer health care. Those are crucial issues for him. Brother Barack Obama opposes all of those. Why? Because he is part of the central moderate neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party. And he is a masterful campaigner. You can't downplay that. And he helps candidates. But there is a certain hypocrisy saying, well, these red lines are genocide in Gaza, single health pair and bailing out Wall Street when he's got a critique of corporate America that I resonate very deeply.

20:12But he wants to win. So I can understand that. And I would rather see him win than Brother Mike Rogers. In other words, that's the actual. But that's part of the hypocrisy of both parties. That's the actual desperation. President Trump going out there, going to rallies that is perceived as desperate. You're calling in Barack Obama, and I'm wondering if El Sayed is going to point out that you had a whole bunch of drone strikes under Obama. The war monster, right? Killing innocent people. We had the deporter-in-chief under Obama. So all of a sudden, he's not going to take any of those positions because he's in a desperate position to try to bring in black voters.

20:46That's why he brought in Kamala Harris a couple weeks ago. That fell flat. It didn't really get that much coverage, and I doubt it did anything on the ground. That's what he's choosing to do here with Obama. But I think you're right about that. I mean, I think the truth of this is that I guess I would disagree with you, Cornell, because I think Abdul Al-Sayed has shown that he is reaching out to unite the whole Democratic Party. And there might be issues that I disagree with him and there might be issues where you disagree with Barack Obama. But it's important to recognize, and I think Abdul Al-Sayed recognizes this as well as Barack Obama and the whole party, that despite some of our differences, they pale in comparison to the differences between with a Republican Senate that has been a rubber stamp for Trump's policies that have raised costs on working people who are struggling every day.

21:36And that is what unites Abdul El-Sayed, Alyssa Slotkin, Barack Obama, Haley Stevens, and Gretchen Whitmer, all who have come to support El-Sayed. So Karina, as somebody who's spent time in the field recently, including in Texas and around the country, how is El-Sayed playing outside of Michigan? Is he helping the Democratic brand? Is he hurting it? It's a great question, and I think one of the questions that's been surrounding this race is, was an adult going to come in and say, enough is enough? You shouldn't be talking to people like Hassan Piker. You shouldn't be flirting with outright socialism.

22:07The tent is supposedly big for Democrats, but it can't be that big. And Obama appearing with El-Sayed, I think, is a sign that Democrats have said, all right, this is the direction the party is going. We haven't been able to find a clear, true north for the party. And so we're going to have to, you know, run with the people that we have. I think it's a huge liability for Democrats going forward. Is socialism the answer to the economic problems? I mean, it's an alternative right now and people are hurting, so they're keen to look at it. But I don't think that that's going to help Americans down the line should El-Sayed be elected.

22:40El-Sayed has said he is not a socialist. He's not a member of the DSA. He has said he's a capitalist. He sees criticisms in capitalism like a lot of people, but he is a capitalist. And I'd say the Democratic Party is putting forward candidates all throughout this country. James Tallarico in Texas, Josh Turek in Iowa, Abdul El-Sayed. This is a broad tent. They have different views on a lot of issues. But Abdul Al-Sayed is perhaps more liberal, but you have a lot of moderates who are actually defeating right now in the polls. It's a month out, but doing really well against Republicans in very red states.

23:16To these points, I want to throw one out to the whole table. We're going to go around, OK? Who is the leader as we sit here in October of 2026? Who is the leader of the Democratic Party? Who is the spiritual and political leader? Are you sending that to Scott Cannings? Yeah, Scott, let's hear what he says, and we'll go around. Go ahead, Scott. Oh, the spiritual leaders are Sanders and AOC. That's the direction and energy of the Democratic Party. That's their leadership. Dr. West. No, Brother Bernie's not a member of the party. I'm not a member of the party. I got good friends who are in the party.

23:48We have that in the moment. Neither of us are Democrats. Capital D. Small D we are. No, but I think the party, in some ways, just doesn't have enough high-quality leadership. So it's hard to zero in. Karin, what do you think? I think Scott's right that AOC and Sanders have the most energy right now. I think a lot of Democrats were quietly hoping that President Obama would come in and set the party straight. And that is not what is happening. Naren? I think actually in November we'll see a whole range of new leaders. I think a lot of these candidates are going to win in states like Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina.

24:23And I think a lot of those leaders will be the new leaders of tomorrow. I think James Tallarico is a great example of a next generation leader for the Democratic Party. All right, Jason, you've had the most time to think, so that better be good. I mean, I agree that it's AOC, but I mean, spiritually, they're more Mamdani. Now, obviously, he can't completely be the leader of the party. He's not going to run for president. However, that is clearly where this party is headed, and that's where the base is getting the energy from. I just have to say, like, when you look at all these swing districts and swing states, you're seeing former generals, former prosecutors, people from all walks of life, teachers, union workers.

24:59People excited the way that Mondani. They are. Mondani is the mayor of New York City, and that is an important role. But he's not the most, like, you can see more popular leaders across. Who is filling seats? James Tolerico is actually getting much bigger rallies in Texas today than Mondani. Quick last word to Scott. Go ahead. I mean, but you, I'm sure you've looked at the poll. I think all these candidates are fantastic. I have seen I've seen you actually diverse party. I've actually seen you make some comments about this. I know you've seen the data in the Democratic Party. Socialism is far more in vogue and in favor right now than capitalism.

25:33Is it not? I think the truth is that there are a lot of Democrats who are concerned about runaway capitalism. You could just say yes.

25:43Jason, I'll get it. Jason, then you're going to finish it off. The polling is consistent on this. Specifically within the Democratic Party, there is a huge surge of interest in socialism. Now, I do think it's true that they probably can't define what socialism is, but they are still electing people who do know what socialism is. In the democratic... The failures of capitalism generate an interest in socialism. In a new democratic congress, if there's 200 and, say, 20 members of the democratic caucus, there will be five, six, seven members of the democratic socialists of America. That is not a majority by any stretch.

26:19It's a broad tent. It should include a lot of different people. But the broad swath of the Democratic Party is going to be defined by senators and leaders in our swing states, not just in New York City. All right, folks, next up. The base is electing and nominating those people for primaries. Justice Alito has been talking. Would Democrats return the favor and block any Trump Supreme Court nominees if the Democrats take back the Senate? Let's hear what they're saying.

26:52Are you ever shopping online and suddenly a discount that helps you save pops up? It makes your day, sometimes even your week. Want that feeling month after month? Well, new customers who save by switching their home and auto insurance to Progressive save hundreds. Cue your happy dance. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

27:23Tonight, Senate Democrats give us a glimpse of what the next two years could look like if they win back the chamber next month. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer tells NBC News that if they pull it off, the party will block what he calls, quote, MAGA justices from the Supreme Court and the lower courts. Now, this comes as Justice Samuel Alito publicly addresses the possibility of a vacancy opening up on the high court. You decided not to retire this year, despite I think some pretty intense pressure. What made you decide to stay on? I thought about it and I will continue. Well, it's something I think that somebody at my age has to think about every term, but I thought that I could still make a valuable contribution.

28:13So you'll be kind of reconsidering this probably every year, rethinking it. Yeah, I think I have to. Very interesting for us Supreme Court watchers. So, Neera, if Democrats should win majority control of the Senate and then there's a Supreme Court vacancy in 2027 or 2028, should Democrats give Trump's nominee a vote on the floor? And if so, how long can they hold off? I mean, I think they should evaluate the justices, but I think we should recognize that nominees, Trump nominees like Kavanaugh. I mean, it was eight years ago today that Susan Collins voted for Kavanaugh. And she said that he would support precedents like Roe v.

28:58Wade. And she was wrong. He overturned Roe v. Wade after conveying to the Senate that he was, you know, support precedent like Roe v. Wade. And so I think there has to be an incredibly high bar because now we live in a world where nominees will basically lie about what they plan to do in the future. And I think Democrats are going to be very skeptical about Trump nominees. Now, everybody should get a hearing and maybe he'll find someone in the middle. So like things are shocking. But I think that Democrats will feel a lot of Democrats will feel that Trump nominees will say one thing to get a vote and do another thing on the court.

29:39and there's going to be a very high bar for that. So Chuck Schumer and Richard Blumenthal and other Democratic senators have said or suggested that they're not going to give anyone a hearing, even throughout the full two years. Do you disagree with them? Do you think that's wrong, the wrong position? I think what they're saying is they're not going to get, put extremist judges through. So you can have a hearing, determine whether someone's an extremist, and go from there. But I think there is a strong opposition to right-wing justices, basically operating like political actors. Has Susan Collins also voted for justices nominated by Democrats?

30:13Sure, but they didn't overturn Roe v. Wade. What does that have to do with anything? She actually said the biggest issue... She's voted for justices that were qualified, sent up by presidents of both parties, which is a central argument in her campaign. She's the most bipartisan senator in Maine. She literally said... She came out here to slander Susan. I just want to be clear. She went and said to all of Maine, to the whole country, that she believed Brett Kavanaugh would uphold Roe v. Wade. And then he didn't, and today she doesn't regret her vote. So I think this is an important issue to recognize that people will cover for these justices who lie to them.

30:50So, Scott, Mitch McConnell, who, of course, you've worked for, famously or infamously blocked President Obama's nomination. Famously. Famously, in your view, probably infamously in others. Is that a pretty important precedent, I think? 293 days he blocked that nomination. So is it fair for Senate Democrats to do the same now if they take back the Senate? Well, in that case, we had divided government. So I guess, let's see, we'll have a Republican president if they were to win. Yes, it would be. So I guess it would be a similar situation. So it's fair? And I expect Democrats to try to do it. Although at the time they argued that it was wrong.

31:24Now they'll be changing positions. My expectation is they will try to block the president. And also, the idea of blocking lower court vacancies, I mean, I just looked at it. There's like 27 Article III vacancies. Now, all the district courts, maybe 15 more coming. So there's several out there that could be in play. That would be an escalation of the judicial wars. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to do that. So just so we're clear, are you saying that Mitch McConnell was wrong to block Merrick Garland? No. You're saying he was right to block it for 293 days? The Senate has a role in this, and he did what the Senate is able, capable, and constitutionally allowed to do.

32:03And if you're a conservative out there and you're wondering whether or not you should vote in this election, understand something. If Democrats are in charge of the Senate, they will probably, and there's a vacancy, they will probably take it to the... Dr. West. Dr. West is ready. Go ahead, Doc. Oh, Scott, Mitch was wrong. It's two left shoes. I mean, one of the roles. I tell you, the reason is this, is that one of the roles of the court is to be a counter majoritarian force so that you don't have a tyranny of the majority. If the court simply become the expression of the majority, then John Adams was right.

32:36The demos can become as tyrannical as any tyrant when you had vast numbers of Americans voted for what would have voted for slavery. You had to have some courts attempt to take a stand. Vast majority of Americans voted for Jim Crow and Jane Crow. That's the tyranny of the majority. You had to have courts saying there's something beyond just what the majority says. The voice of majority is not the voice of God. There has to be some countermajoritarian rule. That's the rule of the courts. Once you politicize the courts, it's majority all the way down with the power, power, power. They've complained anytime they lose a case, they say we have to expand the court so that they don't lose their cases.

33:18When a case goes their way, they don't say anything. They'll put out the press release and say, hey, they made the right decision here. But that's part of the politicization. But that's my point, is that it's coming from the Democrats here. I mean, did they expand the court under Biden? No, they didn't. Should they expand the court? Because they're the ones who say that. I'm not for expanding the court. That is the issue. I'm for Supreme Court ethics. But that's part of the problem with this argument that the Democrats are making, that when we lose something, we have to change the system so that we do not lose.

33:48By the way, hashtag no kings. The number one complainer about the U.S. Supreme Court is who? The president, Donald Trump, every time he loses. He's not offering his band a court. No, he's not. But every time he loses, he takes to social media and blasts his own justice. Every president who loses gets manned a court. Not like this. Not like this. Every president. Okay. Okay, has Scott... Really? Scott, hang on. What president said to social media and texted justices? Have other presidents said that justices are embarrassment to their families, fools, and lapdogs? And let's keep in mind, the justices who Donald Trump is talking about there include his own appointed justices, including Amy Coney Barrett, who has to wear a bulletproof vest, and Brett Kavanaugh.

34:28There was an attempted assassination against it. I want to hear from Dr. West on this. What do you think? Well, it's just sad. People have to wear these protections when it comes to threats against their lives and so forth. That's a level of politicization that leads toward a criminalization of people just trying to be public servants. Where is that coming from? I want to hear from Karina. Chuck Schumer is the one who told people that we're going to send... Pramila Jayapal is out there. We're going to fight tooth and nail against this court while there were threats going on against them. That's what was happening.

35:01Let's hear from Karina. Democrats are also acting as if this court is enabling everything the president wants to do. But in fact, conservative justices has thwarted major parts of his agenda. Just off the top of my head, birthright citizenship, IEPA, mail-in voting. So, you know, to act as if they're just doing the president's bidding at all times. That's why he is more scathing towards conservative justices than others. And before social media was a thing, Ellie, I'll remind you that Barack Obama stood at the State of the Union with the Supreme Court sitting right in front of them and blasted them and insulted them to their faces.

35:32over Citizens United. What did he say? What did he say, Scott? Presidents get very upset when Supreme Courts don't do what they want them to do. It's not new. It didn't just start happening under Donald Trump. You know, there's a slight difference between the president of the United States at the State of the Union saying, I think this decision was wrongly decided. It wasn't quite that polite, Mira. Yes, he was pretty close to that versus you're basically scumbags. These are different things. I mean, maybe you can't tell the difference between those things, but they are different sentences. Are you denying that Obama stood there?

36:00He blasted them to their face, to their face in front of the whole country. At the state of the union. What about blasting norms? Hold on, by the second. I mean, this is like a tan suit in comparison to what happens every day around here. Saying at the state of the union you had a disagreement. Sure, people didn't like that. But here, he's basically attacked them personally and their families. And I mean, I just think it's ridiculous to say these are the same. They're not the same. All right, folks. Good discussion. We're going to be watching Justice Alito real carefully here. Everyone's going to be on retirement watch for the next year.

36:33Hang on. He put some bread on it. All right. Next up, outgoing Republican Senator Tom Tillis says he's worried about the president's reaction. If midterms don't go his way, we will discuss.

37:13We'll see you next time. insurance company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai slash Spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai slash Spotify.

37:52Tonight, outgoing Senator Tom Tillis says he's concerned the president might do something dramatic if his party loses the midterms. Take a listen. Do you have any concerns about how this same president who you've been condemning for January 6th will react if Republicans have a bad night in the midterms? I think there's a risk. I really do. It would be another political unforced error if we do that. Donald Trump has claimed large scale fraud in elections that he has won, elections that he has lost. He has claimed it in generals and primaries. He has claimed it in democratic elections and in Republican elections.

38:33Does anyone at this table think that if Donald Trump or if the Republicans lose the Senate or the House, that Donald Trump will accept that? We're going to have an election, right? Because I remember the Democrats telling us we wouldn't even have this midterm election. About this time last year. Okay, but that's, hold on, that's a diversion. It's not a diversion. Do you think Donald Trump will accept it? Answer the question. It is Tom Tillis selling a book, which goes on sale tomorrow. Tom Tillis has been a critic of this president since his career was destroyed by the president. So I don't necessarily go to Tom Tillis for any kind of objective response here.

39:05Is the president going to be upset with how this turns out? We'll find out. Let's try this real quick. You think he's going to accept the loss? Yeah, I think he ultimately will accept the loss. What I'm going to say is some of his voters are already bracing for a bad night, too. This came up in Texas with Republicans, Republican Paxton voters even, worrying that Republicans weren't going to turn out enough, worrying that Tallarico was gaining too much ground. So even Republicans, and I'm talking MAGA voters, are pretty worried about election night. I'm surprised we're only talking about Trump here.

39:34A number of Democrats, elected officials and party people have come out in public, including, I think, on this network and already sort of preset the idea that Republicans are out there rigging or trying to steal the election. I wonder why we're not having a dual conversation here, Ellie, because for all the complaining about Donald Trump, we've had a number of Democrats lately saying, well, we have to make sure they're not out there stealing the election. There's no evidence that anyone's stealing the election. Are these Democrats in the room with us right now? Like, who is actually saying? Sometimes they are definitely in this room here at CNN.

40:05Who is saying? I just wonder, are Democrats going to accept the outcome if this doesn't go the way they say the polls are pushing right now? My favorite part of this is that Donald Trump threatens elections. He, just so we're clear, led an insurrection to oppose the results that he did not like around the 2020 election. So you can imagine Democrats would be concerned at the tactics he could use with the Justice Department. So the fact that people may be concerned about that shows that they, like, worry and are taking precautions. But they're not doing anything other than telling people to vote.

40:44Vote early. That is what Democrats are saying. They're not saying cheat. They're not saying rig. They're saying, please vote. That is their response. You know, my brother, the quickest way you slide into neo-fascism is when one party doesn't stand up for integrity, but simply says, well, the other party did this, that was bad, so we can do it so it's bad. And you just go right down, sliding down the slippery slope to chaos and corruption. But, Cornell, where are you seeing that equality there? Can you just explain that to me when you're saying one party does one thing and another party follows?

41:18Because Democrats are not saying they're trying to rig elections. They're not using the military. Gavin Newsom said we weren't going to have an election. Maybe Pritzker said exactly the same thing. Chris Murphy said the exact same thing. That is not rigging the election. Those are Democrats who are telling you. That's not rigging the election. They're saying you should. No, it's worse than that. It's actually saying that they're not going to allow you to. I don't think it's equal. I agree with you. We're going to give the doctor the last word here. Go ahead. I don't think it's equal, but you still have enough voices on both sides that they push integrity out, and it becomes just a matter of power, power, power, manipulation, manipulation.

41:51That's not a good thing. All right. Stay with us, everyone. Up next, we'll react to your feedback. Can't wait to see this from CNN.com slash Abby.

42:08All right. Now it's time for your viewer feedback from CNN.com slash Abby. Everyone ready? All right, we are going to convene a constitutional convention because one of our viewers has suggested we need term and age limits for the Supreme Court presidents and Congress, max age 75 and or 20 years. Who votes yes? Yes votes. I'm a yes on that. No. Why alone? No. Yeah, you're alone. Why not? Why are you ageing? If you get someone who's really, really good and is effective and they've got, like, they know how to work the system, I want them representing me. I do think that we should have cognitive tests.

42:40I think that that's totally fair. That should be made public. Why are you against it? I mean, I actually am for younger people running and being in office. I guess I really like Nancy Pelosi. She's 200 years old. I mean, she's very effective when she was 70, 79. Scott's the guy who worked for Mitch McConnell. I'm with Nira, actually. Look, we have term limits already. They're called elections. The American people can limit your term anytime they feel like it. Now, on the Supreme Court, we give these people lifetime appointments for a reason. because you would think accumulated experience and wisdom would be good, and you want them insulated from politics.

43:19So I don't agree. I've been outvoted five to one. I'm definitely for term limits on the Supreme Court. I'm definitely for term limits on the Supreme Court. One of our viewers writes in, a mail-in ballot costs me a lot less than the cost of the gasoline it would take to drive to a polling place. Sick burn, Scott. Guess we know how they're voting. Right. Exactly. What do you mean? Well, this is one of the biggest complaints I'm hearing from voters. It's gas. And that was something that the Trump admin actually had on their side earlier on in the administration. People were like, OK, gas prices are going down.

43:48But now it is literally the number one thing I hear at no matter where I'm going in the country. Do Democrats have a plan, though, on gas? I mean, they talk about affordability. And the war. And the war. We should end the war. You want to surrender now to the country that's economically collapsing literally today? I don't know. Surrender to terrorists. That's the Democratic plan. I have to say, you know, I think the war was a really bad idea, but I actually think most Americans think that their gas prices should be a bigger concern to them, to the president, than this war that he is flailing at.

44:19Flailing? He's flailing. They're defeated. Their Navy is sunk. Their air force is destroyed. They have no defense. Oh, my God. You've been literally saying this for us. Why is gas high? They are defeated. Why is gas high? If it's over, if we've defeated them, why isn't the war over? Well, we have the blockade on because we are pressuring them economically right now. Look what's happened to their currency. It's literally worthless. They can't even pay their teachers and nurses. Their economy is collapsing right now. The entire Middle East is aligned against them. We're all suffering. Don't surrender to the terrorism.

44:54The president's on the right track. We're suffering and they're suffering. The last bit of viewer input, of viewer rights. Cornel West is such a blessing. Amen. Who can disagree? Well, I'm just a cracked vessel trying to love my crooked neighbor with my crooked heart. Before we go, everyone, you can stream the show live or watch On Demand anytime with an all-access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to CNN.com slash watch to learn more. Thank you for tuning in to Newsnight. Laura Coates Live starts right now. Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones.

45:30Like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. The secret society of semi-homemade? Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade.

46:05Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary.