Isabel Hardman's Sunday Roundup - 04/10/2026

0:05Hello and welcome to Coffeehouse Shots, the Spectator's daily politics podcast. I'm Isabel Hardman and this is the Sunday Roundup. This week, Labour drops controversial jury trial curbs from the courts bill. And Andy Burnham's plan to scrap the pensions triple lock draws fire from the Conservatives. On Sky News, Justice Secretary Alex Norris told Helen Lewis that dropping plans to create a new form of judge-only trial would maintain public confidence and get the bill through Parliament. This conference season has been a bit about saying Labour is under new management, and I guess to celebrate that, you're having a do-over of the courts bill.

0:45What's involved in that? Yeah, I'm not sure I'd go as far as a do-over. I mean, you know, as you'd expect, with a new Prime Minister, myself as a new Justice Secretary, we've been looking very closely at courts legislation. Now, we have to have courts legislation. The backlog now is over 80 ,000 cases and they're doubling from before the pandemic. And that caseload will go through 100 ,000 if we don't make changes. So we're bringing back, a week on Tuesday to Parliament, a very significant package of reform in this space to get that backlog down. Right, but the reason I said do-over is that one of the really high-profile things that happened under David Lammy, your predecessor, was this plan to drastically reduce the number of jury trials.

1:25There was a big backlash to that. Lots of Labour MPs abstained from that when it came to the Commons and you've significantly watered that down, haven't you? Well, we have looked at it again and I think that's reasonable to do so. You know, I know one of the sort of central premises of this legislation is that the delay of justice is the denial of justice. But also it's very clear from the public too they don't want to see justice diminished. And there was concerns particularly about this proposal around creating that sort of extra, a different way of having a judge-only trial. So we looked at it again, and I've made the assessment that I can take that out of the legislation, which helps to keep public confidence, helps the passage of the bill, but that I can get the backlog savings from that by bringing forward other provisions, because actually the judge-only bit was new and novel would have taken time to set up so I can bring forward the provisions, and we can get that backlog coming down.

2:13Right, so scrapping the jury trials was billed as essentially this is going to streamline the court service. With that out of the way, what can you do to make this huge backlog go down? We're making very significant changes in the bill. So, for example, the removal of what's called the right to elect. So the court will decide whether a case is heard in the magistrates or heard in the Crown Court. Similarly, restricting the context in which a case tried in the magistrates' court can have an appeal in the Crown Court. We're increasing the length of sentences that magistrates can pass so they can do more cases.

2:45So all of that will reroute cases through the system in a way that means that they get dealt with more quickly, because as I say at the moment, those waiting lists are unacceptable. This package will indeed drive them down. On the BBC, Kemi Badenoch defended the Conservatives' pledge to scrap the£100 ,000 income threshold on free childcare. What we want to see is that people who work harder don't get punished for doing so. If you earn a pound over£100 ,000, You could lose£10 ,000,£20 ,000 worth of childcare. And we don't want people to stop working because of that. There are some families where one partner decides to work a bit less and the other has to work more when that's not necessarily fair.

3:31What we want to see is more people in work and not taking the wrong decisions or the wrong choices. And it doesn't matter whether they're earning£10 ,000 or£100 ,000. what matters is that people are out there working and I want them to know that Conservatives support them. Would someone who earns a million pounds a year get free childcare under a Conservative government? As I said, it doesn't matter what you earn. We don't want you to be punished for earning, for working harder. What we're trying to do is grow our economy. We don't want making, we don't want people making choices that are actually stopping them from working.

4:05And I've been speaking today to the staff at this nursery and they're saying that this impacts everybody, that the more people who they can get coming in actually makes it easier for them and for the other parents. It's the right thing to do. But at a time when a lot of people are genuinely worried about putting food on the table, about paying their energy bills, why is it the right thing to say to someone earning a million pounds a year that they can have free childcare paid for by ordinary taxpayers? Well, this cliff edge is at 100 ,000. The kind of people that we're really targeting are a deputy headteacher who wants to become a headteacher.

4:41She goes from 85 ,000 to 110 ,000. She's got three kids. All of a sudden, she's losing tens of thousands of pounds. But you could means test or have a taper rather than just removing the whole thing. So lots of people listening will be familiar with that cliff edge. You suddenly lose it all. But you could taper in the support or you could bring in a means test. Wouldn't that be the right thing to do? So I believe that the number of people who have very small children who are earning tens of millions of pounds is negligible. What I think we need to focus on is the reality of most people out at work today.

5:14And what you're going to see at this conference is how we're having policies for everybody, whether you don't earn, whether you earn a little, whether you earn a bit, whether you earn a lot. We want everyone in this country to know that if you are out there working, the Conservative Party has got a plan for you and we're going to get Britain working again. Shadow Education Secretary Laura Trott dismissed Labour's plan to scrap the triple lock as a distraction technique. I think I should be really clear to your viewers at the outset, triple lock is our policy, it will remain our policy, it will be on our MEX manifesto.

5:45We encourage debate in our party, it's a really good thing, but we come to a consensus position and that position is we support the triple lock. But what I would say, Helen, is that this is actually quite a distraction technique by the Labour Party. They're talking about cutting£15 billion in 2040 when the working age welfare bill is going to go up by£50 billion by the time of the next election. They're trying to talk about the triple lock because they don't want to talk about working age welfare. I don't really buy that David Gork is a sleeper agent for Labour on that one. So I think it is your own party who have talked about this and it is a huge, absolutely huge issue.

6:22My question is, you are supposed to be the party of fiscal responsibility. We know pensions are the wealthiest generation. One in five pensioners lives in a household that is worth a million pounds. Why are those the people who need the most protection, according to the Conservatives? I think a lot of this is about values, about the fact that we will support people who put in and contribute to our society. But I would also say, Helen, anyone that knows anything about pensions knows that we are looking at a very bad situation for pensioners in coming years. defined benefit pensions are dropping off a cliff.

6:54We have many more defined contribution ones. We have people who are less likely to be able to own their own home in the future. We're likely to have rising pensioner poverty. This is not something that can be dealt with by what is essentially a gimmick of an announcement which is going to come in after a next election and will only start accruing savings really from 2040 onwards and nowhere near enough to pay for the national care system that Andy Burnham was talking about. So, as I said, I think it is a distraction. It's a clever distraction, but it's one that's done by the Labour Party in order to stop us talking about working age welfare.

7:27And that is where we really need to change things, because it's taking the country in the wrong direction. Well, let's come back to that. But we are essentially talking about pensions as a benefit. People do pay them, but they pay for the generation above them. There's not a pot that you get to keep. So that's what I'm trying to get to you. Why is it that these people are your priority when we know that working age poverty rates are higher than those among pensioners? well i mean a pension to be clear like a full state pension is around 12 000 pounds right if you're working on the national living wage you get about double that um pension of poverty was much higher in 2010 when we first came in we bought in the triple lock to alleviate that it's something which has been very effective you can't look at pensions in isolation the proposals that labor are making are only going to start accruing savings in 2040 can we please talk about working age welfare, which is going up dramatically, is having a terrible impact on our ability to grow as an economy.

8:23It's bad for the individuals and it's going to skyrocket in the next couple of years. Labour need to do something about that, not fiddle around with a triple lock in 14 years' time. On GB News, Camilla Tominy pressed Alex Norris on the Prime Minister's suggestion that the UK could reverse Brexit. In what world does relitigating Brexit and potentially rejoining the EU pass Andy Burnham's Makerfield test when the constituents of his seat voted 65 percent leave?

8:56Well, you know, what constituents of Makerfield and what your viewers and what everybody across the country will have seen on Tuesday is a prime minister that leveled with the country that, you know, the EU is our biggest trading partner. We need to have the best possible relationship with them and that we're not there at this point. We've got more important work coming in the autumn and he will talk further around then. I would not run ahead to what that might look like in the future because that's, you know, not the space that we are in at this stage. There will be further, you know, the Prime Minister will talk further about some of the options.

9:25But the reason that it passes the Makerfield test, the Nottingham test and everywhere test is that everything we do will be seen through the prism of the British public being better off. But there's a contradiction at the heart of the Labour government's own narrative, isn't there? On one hand, you say it's Brexit's fault that the economy isn't growing faster. And then on the other hand, we have successive Labour chancellors boasting that Britain's growth is the highest in the EU. Well, both things can't be true at the same time, can they? Well, I mean, first of all, I didn't say the first thing that you said there.

9:59What I said was that they are our biggest trading partner. That is true. I am pleased that, you know, in very difficult economic circumstances, and despite a lot of the naysaying, you know, that our economy is growing faster. But it is doubtless when you talk to business that Brexit has had an impact. So, you know, it is right that we work to see how we can best ameliorate that so that, you know, our business can trade as well as possible. People can work as well as possible to get the best possible deal. Following that policy has meant we've got the fastest growth in the G7. I think that's a good thing.

10:35Yes, but the prime minister has gone slightly further than you're suggesting there because he's saying he wants to perhaps rejoin the EU on the next Labour manifesto. and is talking about reversing the referendum and possibly even a second vote. I mean, what mandate does he possibly have for that? Well, what the Prime Minister said very, very clearly was that, you know, he's going to be working through that lens of doing the best deal for the British public and he's going to talk about what some of those options might be in the future. I know that people are going to want to run ahead to where that might be or what it could be.

11:10Is it X? Is it Y? What I'd say is if we wait a little bit longer, the Prime Minister will say more on that. But always, as I say, through that principle of getting the best possible outcomes for our country. And Alex Norris told Helen Lewis that the Manchester City process must run its course after the Prime Minister defended the club's owners. Andy Burnham is, I think, proud of his reputation as a communicator, but he got into quite a pickle this week on Manchester City, which has been found guilty by the Premier League of more than 100 counts of financial misfeasance. His response that he was really concerned about the United Arab Emirates not investing any more in Manchester, it did give me the slight impression that the government's position is that building stuff in Manchester means that you're allowed to do crimes.

11:54No, I think the Prime Minister has been clear every time I stop this. They are appealing, I will say, so not crimes, wrongdoing. But at every point that there is a process going on, independently of government, I mean, I'm a Manchester City season ticket holder of about a quarter of a century. So, civil bias. So there's a good reason why politicians aren't involved in this process. But the Prime Minister has been very, very clear. That process must be allowed to run out in full. And if there's wrongdoing, found consequences. Would you be concerned if the UAE pulled out investment from the UK because of this?

12:24Well, I want everybody to invest in this country and see it as a great place to do business. I wouldn't see why the two things would be linked. But, you know, we want to create the best possible trading environment because that's what benefits all of us. That's all for this week. I'm Isabel Hardman and this podcast was produced by Joe Bedell-Brill. If you enjoy Coffeehouse Shots, don't forget to click the follow button on whatever platform you are listening to us on. That way you'll get the latest episodes straight to your feed as soon as it's released. And do subscribe to our daily Evening Blend email.

12:57It's a free roundup of all the political news each day, along with analysis and a diary on what to expect next. Just go to spectator.co.uk forward slash blend. Thanks for listening and I hope you join us again next week.