Isabel Hardman's Sunday Roundup - 05/07/2026

0:05Hello and welcome to Coffeehouse Shots, the Spectator's daily politics podcast. I'm Isabel Hardman and this is the Sunday Roundup. This week, Nigel Farage is under more scrutiny over his finances and the Labour Party is extolling the virtues of Andy Burnham's devolution drive. The Sunday Times has reported that Nigel Farage did not declare financial benefits provided to him by his long-standing supporter George Cottrell in the year before he was elected. On Sky News, Trevor Phillips asked Robert Jenrick whether it was true that Cottrell had been playing for Farage's security. You still have to deal with, if you like, the lingering questions about, if you like, the character of the party and the leader.

0:51And there's another story today. What exactly can you tell us is the role of Mr George Cottrell, who is a man convicted of money laundering in the United States, who appears regularly with Mr Farage and who the Sunday Times today says pays for his security. Now, a spokesperson for reform has called the story baseless and contrived. Is it true that this convicted criminal has been paying for Mr Farage's security or not? This is a very old story that has been... Well, it doesn't matter whether it's true or not. Well, it's an old story that's been dredged up by the Sunday Times, which, let's remember, is a Labour-supporting newspaper.

1:37I don't think they think that, but you're not even answering my question. They backed the Labour Party at the last general election. Is it true or is it not true? He's an old friend of Nigel's and he's supported him in the past, before Nigel was even a Member of Parliament. He has no formal role within reform whatsoever. Is he paying for Mr Nigel Farage's security? I believe it says in the story that he isn't, but he supported Nigel before he became a Member of Parliament. So there's nothing to see here. What I find astonishing about that article, Trevor, is that we have Andy Burnham about to become our Prime Minister.

2:16The media is doing absolutely nothing to scrutinise this man. What does he intend to do? And you've got a newspaper, you know, a Labour newspaper, like the Sunday Times, putting this story on the front page, trying to drag Nigel down. Nigel is not going anywhere. Nigel is going to keep working hard to ensure that we get the change that this country actually needs. People watching this programme this morning are desperate for change. Their bills are going through the roof. Their wages are going nowhere. They're sick of the small boats arriving all the time. They think the country is going down the toilet and we need to make sure that we've got a government with real change and a strong leader at the helm.

2:55That is Nigel and that's reform. Three minutes ago, you told me that Nigel Farage is going to be the next Prime Minister. Yes. So people watching this programme want to know who their next Prime Minister is going to be. What is this person really? Who are his friends? Who is he influenced by? So let's just deal with him and not the person that you're saying is not going to be the next Prime Minister. I'm just... Let me just say it, Joe. It's an important point. No, no, let me ask you a question. I'm just saying that the media... I'll let you explain your position. The media seem to be fixated on Nigel.

3:26I don't care about the media. Constantly trying to knock him. It's not working because the public can see through it. Well, hang on. Hang about a bit. Hang about. When you say the media's fixated with Nigel Farage, well, why not? You just told me he's going to be the next Prime Minister. And, by the way, when people come in here, I talk to them about their party, not about some other party. So let's just deal with Mr Nigel Farage. You are telling me that this Mr George Cottrell is just some acquaintance. He doesn't, you tell me, pay for Mr Farage's bodyguards and so on and so forth. Do you think...

4:05So what's the story then? The story... No, you're telling me that. You've conceded. You've conceded that... I haven't conceded anything. George Cottle is an old friend of Nigel's. He's allowed to have friends. And that he supported him before he became a Member of Parliament. Doesn't do so now. What's the story? There is no story here. This is just yet another in a whole chain of smears that's trying to drag Nigel down. To the ordinary person... Let's talk about the things that people actually care about. Well, let me tell you what they care about. Because I actually do spend a lot of time... Well, so do I.

4:38I can assure you, Trevor. Being lectured by people on the buses and the tubes. And one of the things they will care about is seeing Britain's next Prime Minister in the company, day after day, of a man who has been convicted of money laundering. It's not a good look, is it? He's an old friend of Nigel's. No. I don't care if he's an old friend. He's been convicted of money laundering. He has no role within the form. There's no story here, Trevor. Is that what the next Prime Minister... Oh, really? You don't mind what our next Prime Minister... ..who our next Prime Minister hangs out with. You don't care about that.

5:13Trevor, this is... People out there do. Trevor. If it was Andy Burnham, you would be... Well, no-one's scrutinising anything to do with Andy Burnham at the moment. The man's just, you know, drifting into number 10 with no scrutiny. We've seen where that's gone in the past. It's happened with Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves. At least acknowledge... Total disaster. At least acknowledge... No, Trevor. ..that for the average person... You're wrong. ..there is a question to be asked. You're wrong with respect for you, Trevor. You're wrong. The country is in dire straits. People want change. They want journalists like you and Westminster to stop muckraking about Nigel Farage and to talk about the things that really matter.

5:51Andy Burnham has pledged to set up a northern centre of government in Manchester. Trevor Phillips asked Health Secretary James Murray what difference a number 10 in the north would make. You mentioned devolution. Andy Burnham's talked about a number 10 of the North. What difference is that going to make, except just adding another government-funded lobby group to take money away from London? No, look, it's a hugely symbolic move to show that under Andy Burnham, the government will have a top priority of being focused on every part of the country and making sure that all parts of the country receive that focus and that support that they need to succeed.

6:34So, seriously, the first thing that Andy Burnham does is symbolics. Well, no, it's a symbol of his wider approach. He's spoken... You said taking powers away from London. That's exactly what he said. If you mean London as a city, London where I'm an MP for, Andy's spoken about the importance of extra powers in London. Can I just give you one example, Trevor? Because I was a deputy mayor for housing in London, And I saw some of the benefits there of having greater powers at a local level. So we had to negotiate with the government for money for affordable housing. When I was deputy mayor for housing, I decided that we should use that money for a council home building programme.

7:16That is the kind of flexibility that local leaders can take when there's more powers and money to evolve. But the point is, this is all performative. Shabir Ahmed, who was one of the nine men convicted of offences against children in the Rochdale Grooming Gang trial in 2012, has been released from prison this week. The government has been trying to deport Ahmed back to Pakistan, but are currently unable to because of a 1971 law barring the removal of Commonwealth citizens who arrived in the UK before 1973. On GB News, Camilla Tominy asked James Murray why the government can't pass emergency legislation to force the deportation.

7:55One correspondent made the point to me this morning. The UK government can pass emergency legislation to literally keep the pubs open tonight because of the football, but can't introduce emergency legislation to get rid of a rape gang leader and rapist who hasn't served enough time in prison, let's be perfectly honest. What's going on here? Why can't we just get rid of this bloke? Well, I want us to get rid of this. I want this man to be out of our country. I think we all want him to be out of our country. And I know that the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, will be doing everything they can to make sure that happens.

8:28Well, they're not suspending, for instance, visas from Pakistan to try and use that as a threat, some leverage against the Pakistani government to take him back. The Pakistani government say they won't take him back. It's then been reported this morning that he's, quotes, destroyed his Pakistani passport, and therefore he has no citizenship of that country. People might be looking at that saying to themselves, well, people destroy their passports coming here illegally by boat across the channel. We give them room and board. But what's important for me is that the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary will leave no stone unturned in making sure we can get this man out of our country.

9:04So how quickly does he need to be ejected from the country? I'm not going to step on the toes of my colleagues. It's their responsibility to take forward whatever measures need to be done to make this happen. But I'm clear that this man needs to be out of our country. We stripped him of his British citizenship, which is absolutely right. As you know, more broadly, we've deported 10 ,000 foreign national criminals since coming into office, but this man should not be in our country. Do you understand the issue with the emergency legislation that's been brought in to keep pubs open? Why can't there be that sense of urgency with this?

9:35Shouldn't emergency legislation be introduced literally this week to get this guy out? I think there is a real sense of urgency around this, but in terms of the exact mechanisms, that's for the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary to set out. I'm not going to step on their toes. Trevor Phillips also asked James Murray, about a Telegraph story claiming that he sidelined a junior minister for voicing concern about the Pathways puberty blockers trial. James Murray, it's reported this morning that you took away the responsibility for overseeing trials on puberty blockers with children from your junior minister, Preet Kaur Gill.

10:08Why? That's completely untrue. The decision-making on this matter is with the Secretary of State, with myself, as it has been before with my predecessor, and there's been no change to ministerial responsibilities at all. Well, where'd that story come from? You'd have to ask The Telegraph about that story, but I'm very clear that the decision-making has always been with the Secretary of State and there's been no changes to ministerial responsibilities. Well, it must make you feel rather cross because the story makes it look as though because you have a different view to her on these trials, she seems to think that they're not a great thing.

10:50I guess you think that you have to follow the recommendations of Cash Review and all of that, that you're using your position to essentially take her out of the picture. Well, look, I think that this is a difficult issue and it's one that I was very clear that I wrestled with. I struggled with it. I felt myself uneasy and a bit uncomfortable with taking a decision on this matter. And I've obviously talked to my ministerial team about it, because I want to be collaborative as a Secretary of State. I want to listen to views of my ministerial colleagues about it. But in terms of the ministerial responsibilities, there's been no change in that space.

11:33It's always been the responsibility of the Lord's Minister to oversee this policy area. and the decision-making is with me as Secretary of State as it was with my predecessor. So trials go ahead. Yes, and I said it out in the Commons that I feel uncomfortable and uneasy about it, but I think having looked at the clinical advice and the need for clinical evidence and having very robustly interrogated what safeguards are in place, on balance, it's right to let it go ahead. And on the BBC, Labour peer Lord Blunkett told Laura Koonsberg that he believed the Labour Party could be revitalised under Andy Burnham.

12:09Many people I've heard have never known Andy Burnham and they talk about people they've met who have also never known Andy Burnham. I knew him when he was Chief Secretary to the Treasury at a very difficult time, when he was Health Secretary before we lost the election in 2010, but above all in the devolved structure that he's taken and built on over the last nine years. I'm absolutely convinced with the right team around him, with the backing of our colleagues in Parliament and with a revitalised Labour Party, we can deliver to the people of Britain. But is devolution, which is something people in Westminster discuss in quite a sort of policy wonkish kind of way, do you think that's really what people want?

12:59I mean, you, of course, were the leader of Sheffield City Council before you then entered Westminster politics. But it's being held out as this sort of solution to the country's ills is devolution, which is a political structural change that might be quite hard for people to see why that would make any difference to their lives. Yeah, two things strike me, Laura. One is that I would never have been, whatever success I had in government in the eight years I was in cabinet, I would not have been able to deliver in that way had I not had the experience of leading Sheffield for seven years. and secondly I learnt that when you devolve it's not good enough just to transfer administration and structures to a little nearer people they've got to actually feel a change in their community and neighbourhood so pure devolution without building the capacity to deliver underneath the connectivity to people in their lives won't work so it's got to be a process not a administrative change and whether we can manage that in the next three years is open to conjecture I just think we have to have a go.

14:05Is there one piece of advice you would give him I mean is there maybe a danger that he might over promise because he's so keen to show that he's not Keir Starmer and things are going to be different when actually the problems of the country are just the same? My words to him which I've already delivered was not don't be too ambitious we need hope we We need momentum. We need drive. My message was just be yourself, stay yourself. And the Andy Burnham I know will do it. That's all for this week. I'm Isabel Hardman and this podcast was produced by Joe Bedell Brill. If you enjoy Coffeehouse Shots, don't forget to click the follow button on whatever platform you are listening to us on.

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15:21Thank you.