Anti-MBA: How an 18-Year-Old Became a CEO in 3 Weeks w/ David Guttman & Anna Prudchenko

0:00Do you still believe college is the best path for young entrepreneurs? Here's what I think about my Wharton MBA. Welcome to another episode of Office. So I went to Brown undergrad and Wharton for my MBA. In fact, the name of our courses, she came up with the name actually, the anti-MBA, went to Wharton Business School, never taught me. But the reality is if I were born today, I would have been starting businesses in middle school. I don't think I'd have even finished high school, honestly. There is a real stigma with that statement. You got to finish high school at least just because, you know.

0:33So I'll tell you, I got invited. But you can take a GED. Yeah, exactly. So I'll tell you, I went to a mastermind. I was really flattered. I got invited to a mastermind where I was 30 years older than the next youngest person. So the two youngest kids were 17. There were a couple 17-year-olds, a couple 18-year-olds. There was a 29-year-old who was the oldest. And by the way, the 29-year-old works for the 17-year-old who's already running a seven-figure business that he started when he was 15. What company was that? It's an AI agent company. So he basically does like AI sales agents. brilliant kid and honestly it's like and don't get me wrong I think they learned some stuff from me but I think I learned as much from them as they learned from me it was a blast where was that mastermind?

1:11it was in Costa Rica so it was like a four or five day weekend in Costa Rica they rented some mansion and it was a blast that's pretty cool yeah that's pretty cool so tell me about this project that you guys got going on right now so the way it all came to be was I worked backwards in the outcome that I wanted which is I knew I wanted to make you know I'm in the twilight of my career I got another 15, 20 years is kind of what I'm thinking. And so I wanted to spend that in the most interesting and entertaining way I could think of. And so I said, the best thing for me to do is to be invested in eight, 10, maybe 12 companies where I have a board seat, some equity in the business, and I'm mentoring the founders of the business.

1:48So I want to do that with people I like doing things I find interesting. So I'm like, well, what's the best way to do that? And I know that the most important thing in any entrepreneurial venture is the CEO. So I'm like, I need a way to evaluate. So you look at, think about how Y Combinator works or how Shark Tank works. You're making that investment upfront. So what I decided to do is that I, what I really wanted was I wanted six months to evaluate each CEO. I'm like, well, how am I going to filter that out? So I said, let me create a course. So we created a four and a half hour course called the Anti-MBA.

2:17And then I'm anyone who finishes that course. I do a coaching call with, I evaluate them and their idea. If I like them and their idea, I invite them into an invitation only mastermind, 10 people total. That's it. for six months, you have to commit to be mentored by me. At the end of that six months, I'll invest in no less than one, no more than three of those businesses, a quarter of a million to a half a million dollars for a board seat, some equity and ongoing mentorship. So that's how I want to spend the next 15 to 20 years. And that's why I created the course. So Anna was the daughter of a very close friend of mine.

2:48I'm an advisor in his company. Great guy, Ukrainian, you know, moved here, barely spoke English and now, you know, successful entrepreneur. So he's like, hey, my daughter's looking for a summer internship. She's going to go to college in the fall. I needed someone to help me with some of the social media grunt work. I've interviewed her. She was super smart. I'm like, sure, why not? Three weeks into it, she's just crushing it. And I'm thinking, you know, what would be really compelling is if I actually had Anna, if I actually used the course to launch a real business, get it up and running in 30 days, profitable within 90 with someone who's very smart, but no business background whatsoever, just finished high school.

3:24What better way to demonstrate the fact that if you have the right raw materials, you could be a successful entrepreneur. I pitched it to Anna. First, I got her dad's permission. Then I pitched it to Anna. She thought I was crazy, but that's how we started on this journey together. I like it. I like that. That's a cool journey. So Anna, you just graduated high school and instead of college, you're launching a company. What do you think made you choose that path instead of college? I think it stemmed a lot from the environment that I was in and my parents. My dad is an entrepreneur, as David said, so I always had this vision for what I wanted my life to look like in the future.

4:01And I quickly realized that if I go to the normal path of going to college and then getting a job and then getting promoting myself over like in the career ladder, I won't get that same life that I really wanted. and I always knew that I had something in me to do to become an entrepreneur. I wanted to be an entrepreneur since I was like seven I think. Yes I was seven and there was never a doubt in my mind that I would become one. So it was not an easy decision because obviously my mom really wanted me to go to college. She still wants me to go to college. It's her requirement get a degree just Just get the paper, then you can do whatever you want.

4:41But I think overall, it's just a better way for me personally. And I've never been one to conform to the usual route. I always take the path less traveled. So this was kind of like a risky decision that I was just super excited to take. She speaks with conviction. And as a young kid, I'm impressed with the youngest person that will be on the show. And I want my kids to go down the entrepreneur. I'm stuck because I personally want my kids to go down the entrepreneurial path because I know that's, you know, that's what's going to ultimately like lead to success. I'm in Newport Beach. There's no doctors and lawyers on my street.

5:20There just isn't. You can't buy a$7 million house as a doctor, you know. So everybody on my street is an entrepreneur. There are nobody. There's nobody. Unless they own the practice and a bunch of practices, they're not living in Newport in general anywhere. Yeah. Maybe a condo. I know some people in Newport, because I'm Egyptian, and everyone in my community is a doctor. That's all we knew. Same with Jewish people, right? Yeah, yeah. They're all doctors. That's the path they started with. And then they started to understand, Jewish people specifically. Entrepreneurship was a better route. They understood that in the 70s and 80s.

5:56We understood that now because we came in the 80s. So we were like, we're going to be doctors. Now their kids are like, we're going to be entrepreneurs. Dad, you're dumb to be a doctor. You made no money. my dad still works like a dog 76 years old still works every single day um but the the caveat is like where i'm stuck is i want them to be entrepreneurs i'm already having them become young entrepreneurs you know and i do that through sports card trading and i do that through uh like raising capital for you know whatever projects um but i still want them to be highly educated you know i still want them like one of my friend um who had a company called orgain uh he exited a couple billion bucks um his dad told him i don't care what you do as long as you get your medical degree not just college right become a doctor first so a lot of school that's a lot of school and that's like you're out of school at like 26 now kids are multi-millionaires at like 19 17 yeah so it's it's a it's a path you know now and i don't know what the future holds because six years down the road education college is going to be even worth even more worthless agreed but you know it is like she made the comment that you know the safe route of taking an education i actually argue it's the opposite i think it's the less safe route you know like building up your talent stack having real skills um where you can build something like Like that you can take anywhere, you know?

7:26And so I feel like, you know, your gender studies degree, I mean, good luck. Yeah. Especially people who don't know what gender they are. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And one thing I did, which I'm going to encourage all my kids to do, is I just took a test and exit exam at 16. And then I went to community college. At least finish that. Right. You know, like finish 16 high school. Then go to college, you know, from 16 to 18. you'll be done i was i was done with college at 19 all of college i got my degree of bachelor's degree wow it's possible just you just got to get out of high school early well think about it too like you know it was about a quarter of a million dollars you know all in for my daughter to go to you know middling school um and the reality is think about how much coaching and mentorship and masterminds and stuff you could purchase for 250 000 the rooms you could get in yeah and it's like that to me is a way better roi yeah i've already taken my 11 year old to masterminds now smart i'm already introducing her to to think big like that's why i'm taking her on this podcast towards like hey part of what i want you to do not just you know because she's also the daughter of my close one of my very closest friends it's like i want her to be as successful as humanly possible i learned the hard way that i should have built my personal brand five years ago and so i want her to learn from my mistakes that's what i want all my mentors to do is learn from my mistakes and so the business will benefit from it but she'll benefit from it from it too i think to building a personal brand is sort of like the uh the cheat code to life building a personal brand and i talked to you about this earlier it's not a cheat code anymore and it's it's an absolute necessity for every entrepreneur yeah it's a necessity just because we all want ai everyone wants the you know the ai to to help them but ai has no data without personal brand for people right data on every other thing but for people to if it's going to decipher you need to build your personal brand yeah people have people look people you know i can hallucinate um i you know i part of the reason i listen to joe rogan or whatever uh it's like hey this guy never intentionally lies to me this is people buy from people they like and trust yeah you build a personal brand of authenticity of trustworthiness um you can you can monetize that in an infinite number of ways if monetization your thing if influences your thing again you can influence the most people by building a personal brand and doing something that you're passionate about yeah it's been for both of us you know obviously game changing now um david you tore up your mba diploma publicly which is so cool yeah we're going to show that here on the clip as well uh what was the real message behind that moment and what are you challenging in the current system so you know as we were talking about off camera you know the dirty secret if you know for people to go to get ivy league degrees go to stanford places like that is and don't get me wrong it's not that there's you know there's not anything interesting i took a really interesting class on chicago politics okay when i was at brown interesting a nice class and all it's not changing my life in any way um the reality is in terms of practical knowledge you know that i'm able to apply in my life it wasn't particularly useful and because everyone benefits from the fact that everybody else is so impressed that they went to those schools, the dirty secret is it didn't really change anything.

10:44The reason people like Michael Dell, who dropped out of Harvard and Zuckerberg, who dropped out of Harvard, they're successful because they were able to get into Harvard, not because Harvard educated them in some way. And so the dirty secret is the people that benefited from that don't want to let the secret out. And I'm like, so that's why I tore it up. It's like, I'm old. I don't have anything to prove. And so it's like, you know, I wanted to, if I put your money where your mouth is, If I'm trying to say, look, I didn't want my kid to go to school. I'm encouraging her not to go to school. And that was five years ago you didn't want your kid to go to school.

11:16Seven years ago. Now college is even worthless even more now. Even more now. And I was begging her then. And I would argue, especially if the kids go away for college, that it's actually harmful for children. Because they're going to go to college and they're just going to party. They're going to drink. They're going to be exposed to all types of harmful situations for their life and for their livelihood. and it's going to add undue duress on the parent. Like, why did you send your kid to the other side of the country? He's a kid. You expect him not to fall into social temptation? I remember one time my daughter calls me up because she set her curtains on fire.

11:54You know, literally they're in flames. I'm like, why are you calling me and not the fire department? I don't understand. What the hell am I supposed to do? Call the fire department, Dad. Yeah, exactly, right? I'm like, hang up and call the fire department. Honestly, it's just, it's unfathomable that it's such an expensive way. The excuse is, hey, you're going to spend a quarter of a million dollars, but they're going to learn how to be an adult, kind of, sort of, right? Because... If you run a business, they'll learn to be an adult like that. Exactly right. Make payroll. You don't have to make payroll for your people, then you're actually an adult.

12:24So I just think that it's, again, I understand it's just, it's brainwashing, it's societal programming, that that's the way it's supposed to be. And the reality is, I think it's a fool's errand. yeah i mean what's your opinion on that anyways like about college yeah i think i went i'm probably at the moment in my life that i will later refer to as the pivot point because for the past four years i've been working towards a college degree i took 90 p's i was really going out you have this a few more classes you've got your a exactly that's what i'm doing right now that's what i'm doing right now that's what I'm doing college community college part part time you know it's barely anything easy and it's it's super easy it's barely anything and I'll get it done and then if I want to I can transfer if I don't want to I don't have to transfer you know it's it's it's there's opportunities there exactly no I'm I have to be careful about what I say on camera because she's going to be watching so yeah I will say that I am yes I am going to get my degree but yeah I think that I was going towards this thing I couldn't afford a college actually I got accepted into a lot of colleges I didn't couldn't afford it so that's why I'm going to community college and I realized that you know what what was I even working towards like why did I want to go to college in the first place it's kind of like a aha moment like what it was like what was I doing and I was going to college for networking I thought the only reason to go to college was to meet people that you can network with and like do business later on and then i realized that um while meeting david and just going through his network and meeting the people that he's meeting i'm gonna get so much more connections and more networking than any college could give me coming here yeah exactly yeah i mean networking is like what you're gonna your college buddy 20 years down the road is gonna be doing what we're doing now exactly exactly if you somehow find him on whatever social media is out there like i remember that guy um so so anna you started as an intern for david and within three weeks you became the ceo of a brand new company what was going on through your mind when he offered you that role i thought he was crazy and i thought that but it was a good kind of crazy and I also thought that okay I Ana come on you wanted to be an entrepreneur since you were seven years old yes you thought you were going to do it when you were like 21 22 it's coming a bit early but it's now or never so I didn't even have to think about it for too long I got off I got offered this opportunity I was like yeah I'm gonna take it because well the risks the risks like the benefits way outweigh the risks in this scenario especially because i knew david just a little bit he was friends with my dad i trusted him so yeah it was a really a no no-brainer to be honest what are the traits that you saw in her that you realized this girl can do something much bigger than what she's doing here yeah i wouldn't have i wouldn't have proposed it like i when i first met her she was sharp it was funny we had um you know my friend had you know said hey you know i said let me talk to your daughter have a room so i basically said on Monday.

15:38Review my social media. We'll talk on Friday and I want to hear your thoughts. She's 15 minutes into a 30 minute monologue about how broken it is and what I need to fix. And halfway through, I'm like, all right, shut up. You're hired. But then we worked together for the next few weeks. And what I saw was she was super creative. She was super curious. She was very disciplined. She was also smart, but honestly, the smart wasn't even the big, that's a nice to have. That's not even a have to have in my experience and but she was she's also a very open-minded and she took direction really well the other thing that surprised me was She didn't come to me with every little thing like a lot of people that are her age They'll come to you with every last thing She tried to solve everything on her own as much as she possibly could before she came to me And so those really are the raw materials that I think you need to be successful The other thing was she was having to coordinate with a lot of other people all of whom are significantly older than her and she handled it so well and she was able to kind of command the respect even though just by her sheer presence so it's like she had the raw materials and so and I thought you know one she's going to make me look like a genius right so it's like I like I I know I have a I have a ringer but everyone else doesn't know that because I know what I know what to look for I have a good eye for talent yeah I mean I that's kind of my job you I'm a talent scout at my position now.

17:02That's what I always look for. That's cool that you're looking for that. Yeah, and humble too. Humble was the other one. Humble. Humility is important. Yeah. Humility is definitely important. So, David, what are both of you trying to prove right now or maybe disprove with the launch, especially under the banner of the anti-MBA campaign? I'll go first. You know, like you said, I believe that I can, in fact, I know I can take an 18-year-old with the right raw materials and between the course and a little bit of guidance from me, help her be a successful entrepreneur. The goal is going to be, I don't really care about the exit value of the business.

17:45Like I think I mentioned before, we don't need to raise capital, but we're going to raise capital just to demonstrate how to raise capital because I think that's a really important skill to have, especially if you want to build something big in scale. but so we're going to take it the goal is over the next 18 to 24 months to exit i don't care how much we exit for maybe it'll only be very high six low seven figures doesn't really matter but i want to be able to take it all the way through the the life cycle yeah because again most people don't realize that um due diligence the main goal of due diligence is to lower the purchase price what are all the things you can do to help mitigate those risks and to push back against that we i one of the companies that that i exited eight figure exit we exited in december of 2008.

18:27And every company I knew was getting their exit value, huge haircuts, 25, 35, 50 % haircuts in their valuation. And because of how we managed the exit, we got the exact asking price that we wanted. So there's a lot of things that you, because you can build a company up and exit wrong and destroy so much of the values, but years building. Wow. Now, how often does one-on-one media reflect what you believe the future of learning leadership and media should look like i'm gonna take that one you want me to you mean the the company itself the idea of company i mean i don't know if it's uh reflecting how learning is going to look like in the future necessarily i mean one of one is a poster business it's a side effect of it you know it's the company was started in order to showcase all of the little details of how a usual a regular business will function and some of the challenges that a usual business will go through right but then the one-of-one I mean it's all about it's all about motivation we're doing tech integration we're doing AI features it's like the poster is just one thing but it also becomes a portal into your own self-growth journey so there's like a lot of different things it's both novelty but it's also a simple concept to brute force in the beginning that we chose just because that was the best thing to show the course, like the contents of the course.

19:56I think too that for me, I wanted to demonstrate that the best way to learn is by doing, right? And it's like, if you're not making mistakes, you're not making enough decisions, right? I think you said something really profound here and people really need to hone in on this. The best way to learn is by doing because everybody just wants to sit there in class and just like receive information that doesn't do anything for you you have to make decisions and look one of the big mistakes people make is they have analysis paralysis they're afraid to make mistakes you know one of the things I was I've been teaching Anna and I was really proud of her I remember when we first came up with the logo or she came up with the logo she hired a graphic designer she had him do a logo she showed me the logo I could tell by the look on her face she didn't like it but she's like the logo isn't gonna to make the business successful succeed or fail.

20:42And so let's just keep moving. And I was like, wow, like there's people in their forties and fifties that don't realize that. Right. And so again, that's how I knew it. It doesn't matter. Yeah. That's how, that's how I knew I picked the right, the right quarterback. But, but ultimately what I want to do is I want to show a couple of things. One that you learn by doing. And the second thing was, and I know I always beat on, beat this drum pretty hard to the point that it probably hates hearing it now, but as I, I'll take a mediocre idea, really well executed over an amazing idea, executed mediocre any day.

21:09and at the end of the day, while I think the one-of-one posters is a good idea, it wouldn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It's about, you know, people always talk about, oh, when Home Depot moves into a new city, all the mom-and-pop hardware stores go down to business. That's only mostly true. About 80 % of them do. The other 20 % actually do better, right? Because they're, you know, good luck trying to get someone at Home Depot to help you actually figure out which power tool to buy or whatever it might be. But the mom-and-pop, you know, hardware store that's run well will actually make more money.

21:38One-of-one. let's talk about that is who are your competitors i feel like you do that stuff on amazon or ride aid or whatever i would have thought so too like when i had the idea from the michael jordan poster right i like i knew i wanted this quote i knew i wanted the poster there was nowhere i could buy it at any price it wasn't possible i looked you know there's an old company a high quality one yeah you know and i wanted it you know really nicely printed really nicely framed um and there just wasn't any way to do that i couldn't even get the poster part done night you know period So I had to basically buy the high-res image, you know, basically put it in a tool like PowerPoint, superimpose the text, you know, take a screen grab, have it printed high-res, then getting it framed.

22:17The whole thing took like two weeks. It was a huge pain in the ass, you know. And then I started giving them as gifts. And every person I gave it to said, best gift I've ever gotten. And so because not only that, but it's sitting on their wall in a place of pride, you know, about, you know, either in their office or in their living room or in their bedroom. And every time they look at it, they're thinking about me. and wow, that was a really thoughtful thing Dave did. Who wants something other than that? And think about the lifetime value of a customer. The perfect customer is someone like you who wants to get that Michael Jordan poster really well done and you want to have it at the office and then you're like, oh, I really like that.

22:53Hey, maybe I'll start giving him his gifts. So you have some for yourself, you have some for the office, you start giving him his presents. Now the lifetime value of a customer is high hundreds, low thousands of dollars over time. That's a really good business. in my business the lifetime customer value is 13 to 14 mortgages that's a lot of money so every mortgage is six to ten grand that's beautiful so for these guys out here thinking lifetime value they gotta deliver um very nice closing gifts yeah i bet you know and what this would be a great closing gift in fact it was funny um i probably shouldn't let the cat out of the bag but um actually anna's mom had this great idea that everyone we're having that we're doing these podcast with, we should give them a one-of-one poster as a thank you for having us on their podcast.

23:36So I was talking to Dan yesterday when I was ripping up my diploma and I was saying, telling him about, um, the, the fact that I did that Teddy Roosevelt, cause he has the whole in the arena, um, thing events that he does. Um, and you know, and I said that I had David Goggins and in the arena and I had that poster in my office. He's like, no way. He's like, I just hired David Goggins today to do an event. He's a huge Goggins fan. So guess who's getting an in the arena poster with david goggins on it right what better way to do that you know and every time he sees you don't think of us dan's the sweetest guy he's a great guy he's a sweet he's uh the true like embodiment of a servant his whole life is just he does not care about money i'm sure you got like 50 introductions after that he's a machine he's amazing so that's just his mindset he's been an inspiration for me um and a huge help with just building my brand that's all he's been trying to do is just help me so anytime i come across guests or something i'm like dan dan here yeah and that's how he knows that the god just blesses him like that yeah so um so anna you've gone from high school grad to company builder in a matter of weeks what's what what's something you've learned on the job that school never prepared you for everything like everything because school does not teach you how to become an entrepreneur school teaches you how to become I'm a good employee, right?

24:56It's how it teaches you how to follow directions, teaches you the very technical skills that you need to know in order to do a specific kind of job. So everything that I've learned this summer, I have not learned at school. And even like the only overlap that I could talk, that I could really think about is because I was heavily involved in leadership at school because I was always trying to do something of my own. I hate following like directions from people that I don't aspire to. So I always tried to do something of my own and that was the only place that I was like, okay, so I got some of the soft skills and I brought them here, but nothing else was taught here.

25:32I'm learning so much more. I'm learning all of everything from legal issues, like how to set up an LLC, how to set up what is a C-Corp versus S-Corp, everything. This kid's insane. What she's telling me right now, I wish my kids were here. You know, like this is crazy. You know, it's like, I never thought that school just prepares you to be an employee i mean but she's right out of school and she's like yeah i was just basically preparing myself to go you know just be a follower you know just be a really kind of like a flunky you know in my opinion 100 yeah i'm just learning here just to take orders i'm just an order taker and that's that's an unfortunate reality about our school system not like that but think about it too like people have this just bizarre illusion that the couple corporations they work for care about them.

26:22You know, it's like, look, I've been, you know, you probably know a little bit of my backstory, but I was misdiagnosed with cancer and told I had six months to live when I was 24. And that just pivoted me into being a servant leader. Before that, I really wasn't. I wasn't a bad guy, but I led and I thought about leadership and everything in a very different way. And so for me, it's just such a happier way to travel through life is find people to invest in, And pour your heart into those people. And it pays back in an infinite number of ways. Now, David, what would you tell other founders or executives about hiring people like Anna?

27:00Not for where they've been, but for who they are and where they're going. I think Elon Musk has made this comment a couple times. And it's been my experience too. is I've made the mistake too often that I would hire based on talent or primarily on talent or specific domain expertise. Now, there are some rare exceptions where that's an absolutely necessary thing. If you're building an AI company and you need some very specialized knowledge, but for me, it's like now I hire on humility. I hire based on curiosity, creativity, discipline, and the fact that, and I guess I'd call it heart for lack of a better way to say it.

27:40And when I do that, I've just seen that those people are the ones that are the game changers in the organization. The other thing that I've learned is that you have to learn how to fire fast because you'll make mistakes. I don't care how good you are at interviewing, how much you do reference checks, it won't matter. You'll make some hiring mistakes. One bad hire can, in the same way that a really good hire can help move the needle in a positive way, a bad hire goes the other way. 100%. It's the only thing in my business career that's 100 % true. Every time I have delayed, I had the thought to fire someone and I delayed it, I regretted it without a single exception in a 35-year career.

28:20Actually, about a year and a half ago, I thought I had that one exception and then actually ended up having to fire him. So, you know, that's the thing. It's like look for the right raw materials and you can teach the skill set. a couple last questions now where do you both want one-on-one media to go and what do you hope this this conversation inspires in the next generation of builders i mean the one of one for my personal goals i want to learn as much as possible from building scaling it and then exiting so one of one is bound to have an exit for sure we also want to teach how to raise capital and everything like that, this whole journey is kind of like a super transparent, no bullshit journey and like a documented journey where others can learn, okay, you don't really have to go get an MBA.

29:14You don't really have to have a bachelor's in business in order to start a business. Here is what you need to know. Here is exactly what you need to know. And that is kind of what this is going to inspire in the future generations. Hopefully people are going to realize the value of just a single course or a single mastermind or multiple masterminds over a quarter million dollar education. For me, I just want, I want the one-on-one to just be the template and its journey to be the template that I apply to other entrepreneurs. It's, you know, to me, I wish so much that this was available to me when I was, when I was her age.

29:53and so honestly just the idea that I can you know pour myself into you know 8, 10, 12 entrepreneurs that where their hearts are really in it the idea of making all of them millionaires is thrilling to me so that's the outcome I want and yeah I'll make some money as a side effect but it's not important to me. A couple last questions before we adjourn here this is about goals what's a personal goal you guys can both share a bit a family goal you don't have a family yet but you can also allude to it and then a business goal which we kind of tapped into um family goal i mean look um i just right now the big one um part of the reason i moved out to scottsdale reason i moved out scotts i have an older brother's about three and a half years older than me he's about to turn 63 um he's my height and he's he was he was a little bit over 350 pounds when when he started his journey and um i mean he's he's the nicest guy um and just his life is not where it where it really should be, especially for someone who's just such a wonderful person.

30:54So, you know, I asked him, hey, if I moved out here, would you work with me? He's already dropped 25 pounds. He's got a long way to go, obviously. But that's my number one goal in a family is to be able to help him, you know, have the kind of life that I think he deserves. So I would say that's probably my primary family goal. And I would say on the, you know, on the business side, I have a few. I'm finishing my first book. It's a book on servant leadership called Lead Like You Give a Shit. And then I'm looking to try to do my first TEDx. I really want to do a TEDx about some of the stuff I want to talk about on servant leadership.

31:32And obviously what we're doing with One of One and the anti-MBA is super important to me because, again, I feel like back when I was misdiagnosed and thought, you know, and I realized I wasn't going to die, I made a conscious decision that I was going to try to affect just the handful of people closest to me, but the internet didn't exist back then. And so now that now I've expanded that scope and I'm like, I feel like I can cast a much wider net and have a bigger ripple effect. Um, so if I can create a dozen Anna's, how much influence and impact those people can have. And so that's what I'm excited about.

32:07For me, a personal goal, I really value change. I've moved 14 times in my life. I've come to accept change as it comes but I also I only feel successful and satisfied in myself if I am not the same person when I end the year compared to when I started it so a personal goal would be to continue growing to continue changing if I reflect back on the beginning of this journey and I'm like yeah I don't even know what I was doing back then like I don't understand like I made so many mistakes I wouldn't want to do that again that's what I want to be later on That's a personal goal. For a business goal, I think, well, obviously I want to bring one of one to success.

32:51I want to have a successful exit. But also because I'm young, because I'm very, very new to business, I want to build a lot of relationships and a lot of network, like a big, good network so that I can start ideating and start launching my next business before I even exit this one. This is not going to be the end for me. This is only the beginning, and I need to start preparing for the next big thing already. This is definitely the beginning. This is 18 years old, like literally. Yeah, she repeats. I'm excited to see what you do in your life, and I'm going to have my kids interning for you. I'd love to.

33:30Yeah, last question. When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?