From Uber Driver to Nutrition Founder | James Oliver Built Atlas Protein Bars

15:19Joe Shalaby:Yeah. But you don't have to refrigerate them.

15:21James Oliver:Their whole claim was you got to refrigerate ours. That was their strategy, you know, like, but you really don't have to.

15:27Joe Shalaby:They took something that was, they was smart because they took something that was really a disadvantage. Like you have to kind of go out of your way and go to the refrigerated section to get them. And they flipped that and were like, no, it's so fresh that it's in the refrigerator. Like it's so, it's so clean and made the such real food, perishable foods that you have to go to the fridge to get it. So they did a really good job of like flipping that around.

15:48James Oliver:Yeah. But it's really not true. Like you can actually leave themselves shelf stable.

15:53Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Yeah. For, for a number of days. Yeah. Yeah. They're good. Um, they're good. The only knockout I'd have on them is that they're just, they're pretty high and cause they use honey as a sweetener. So they're pretty high in sugar.

16:03James Oliver:Yeah. Yeah. They are high in sugar. So here's less than one gram. I love that, man. I love, I love the goal to go to market, uh, kind of concept, but you know, are you running ads? Are you, you know, you're not door knocking anymore, obviously. Uh, you're doing, obviously you're on a podcast, you're on a big podcast here. so I don't know how you got in touch as a PR network but you know what what are some of the

16:25Joe Shalaby:ways you're getting the word out yeah I I didn't go into the tactics um so those those uh points that I was saying we run a number of ads and we found that I mean no surprise but the closer you can get your product or service whatever to the point of purchase uh the better it's going to convert. So we run a lot of ads, some of which are me just talking and me just educating people like, hey, this is what we do. And there's no real, I don't look at it really as sales. I just look at it as education. In my view, I think some of the best sales is just educating somebody that like, hey, this is your problem.

17:05Joe Shalaby:This is what we do. And I think that from my perspective as a consumer, that's usually most effective because I don't feel like I'm being sold to. I just feel like the person's actually trying to try to help me. So we do a number of ads, a lot of paid media, and it really just communicates those same points that, that we find convert really well.

17:26James Oliver:Now I got to go back to the beginning of starting this company when it was just you and your mom in a kitchen. Like, did you ever think that you'd actually make this a business after college? Just like cooking these bars and like, mom, I'm going to, I'm going to do this for living?

17:41Joe Shalaby:When I was 21 and I was in college and I was deciding what to do with my life, I did a, I basically wrote a formula and it was the expected value of me starting this company. And I was like, okay, I think there's a 90 % chance that I fail, but there's a 10 % chance that I succeed. And I think if I succeed, that this could be like a$5 million company, which means that the expected value of me starting this is basically half a million dollars so 10 times a or 5 million times a 10 expected outcome gets you to 500 000 and uh this is when i was 21 and i was like yeah i think that that's like that's a chance i'm willing to take and even though i think the the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against me this is i would rather try and fail at this because i think the amount that i'll learn in the process will serve me better than any of my alternative options right now as a 21 year old.

18:38Joe Shalaby:Like, yeah, I could have gotten an entry level job at a number of places, but I think the experience and the lessons that I'll learn from starting something, trying to start something will serve me better in the long run.

18:48James Oliver:Much, much better. And you probably have more than that as a valuation now.

18:53Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Yeah. It took, it took a lot, a lot less time than I thought to hit that. So yeah, in a sense, I've exceeded what I thought was possible.

19:09James Oliver:And you got the lessons. Yes. So you got the lessons. So from here, you can have an exit and then start another company, because now you know the strategy, because now you're a bona fide entrepreneur.

19:25Joe Shalaby:Yeah, I think as you know, So like if you had to do the same thing that when you started your company, if you took everything you know now and you went back to then, like how much faster do you think you could get to where you're at today?

19:41James Oliver:I mean, yeah, a fraction of the time just because I know I have all the resources. I have all the contacts. I have more contacts now than ever. And, you know, I know the playbook to winning. You know, so it's all just a playbook. Right. And then you can just keep writing that playbook to any vertical.

19:58Joe Shalaby:yeah I think that's exactly it I think you just eliminate it's with experience you just eliminate the wrong moves so you don't have to like bounce around and figure out what works what doesn't work you know exactly what works and so you can just do those things and for me and this would

20:15James Oliver:apply to anyone like who listens to podcasts or kind of learning from mentors like I just get so much mentorship now that I can you know points of constraint are non-existent and what uh

20:27Joe Shalaby:Yeah. What were those points of constraint for you when you started?

20:31James Oliver:Oh, for me, I'm in a hyper regulated industry. OK, so I'm a bank in 48 states. So every state regulates you. So that's right off the bat, 48 states. And then we have overarching regulators, CFPB and secretary, secretary of state and the National Mortgage Licensing Registry. and then you have additional overlays by each of the state's payrolls. You've got this IRS. Then you've got here in California, you've got different wage, the Department of Labor and various departments. So every state regulates us and then has their associated regulators. So for us, the biggest points of constraint as a macro company, a company like ours, is the hyper-regulation.

21:22James Oliver:from all the different states. So that's why it's easier for us to roll other mortgage companies underneath us because they can't deal with those points of constraint. Now, I'm on a different level. My whole goal is to basically acquire other mortgage companies, and I do it at$0. So it's like partnering with mortgage companies that are a fraction of our size, and they'll come to us because they can't attain our level of market share and resources and technology and infrastructure. and overarching support. And they just get to piggyback on our existing ecosystem and they spend no money to do it.

22:01James Oliver:So I'm in a great position because we can acquire companies that have significant valuations already for$0 and just keep doing that over and over and over. But it took us a point. We're in a position where nobody's in our world. We have five competitors. That's it. and it's a real unique world for us because the mega companies, they call us mega brokers, are just getting bigger and then the other companies are just fizzling away. It's kind of like everyone going to RX and RX just rolling out every single product and that might be the playbook for you at some point just because you're so young and you don't want to deal with trying to compete with the mega companies in your space and then they just acquire you and then you start another vertical and you're 29.

22:53Yeah.

22:54James Oliver:Why not?

22:55Joe Shalaby:So you basically have a bit of a network effect then that like in the same way that like Meta or Amazon builds a network effect that the larger you get, the harder it is for others to compete with you because you have more resources, more of an ecosystem.

23:10James Oliver:The network effect is a real thing. And I actually haven't heard of it in that context, but this is why I love podcasting because this is my own. I learned from you. Just like, you know. But that's true for any sector, right? Once you become a Goliath, it's, you know, the only people that can really hurt you are, you know, regulators. That's it. You know, that's the only people that can hurt you. It's the states. And all they want is one thing. They just want to grind you for more money. They just want money. Oh, and then obviously you got targets on your back from people, which is also annoying.

23:53James Oliver:But that just comes with the territory. How many lawsuits does Meta have? How many lawsuits does Disney have? It's like thousands. We have significant legal expenses and compliance expenses. That just kind of comes with the territory. You're too small to experience that now, but as you get bigger, it just happens organically. Now, what did it feel like for you To go from the kitchen. If you're a small business owner, you already know what it takes to keep everything moving. You're juggling customers, invoices, and about 100 decisions every day. Thankfully, taxes don't have to be one more thing on that list.

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25:11James Oliver:Visit turbotax.com to get matched with an expert today, only available with TurboTax full-service experts. With your mom, to finally seeing actual bars on the shelves, what's that feel like? To see your product on a commercial shelf.

25:31Joe Shalaby:I think it's a very, and you can probably relate to this, but I think it's a really unique feeling that when you have something that literally just exists in your head, it just exists firing between the neurons in your minds. And then because you've put work into it, it gets translated from your mind into the real world. And then other people are interacting with it. And not only that, but they're consuming it, they're enjoying it. It's something that's part of their daily life. It's a very fulfilling thing to know that you can create something that helps and actually provides value to other people.

26:06Joe Shalaby:For me in particular, I really enjoy doing tangible goods. I don't think that I could ever do software because I don't think that you get that same feeling. I'm sure it's great to build an extremely successful software company, but there's something just about the physical world and making something like a French press that somebody can interact with that I think is really fulfilling and cool.

26:30James Oliver:Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a surreal experience, just to see it materialize, you know, with your own bare hands. Now I want to talk about, cause you refer to this concept of metabolic dysfunction. Like it's like, it's a personal thing for you. Was there a moment that made this mission real for you? Because the metabolic dysfunction, I mean, that's a, I mean, that's a, it's pretty serious, pretty serious statement

26:54Joe Shalaby:around metabolic dysfunction.

26:55James Oliver:Yeah.

26:56Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I think that what got me motivated to start talking about that and building around that idea is that our country is not in a great place when it comes to what i would refer to as metabolic health we have record rates of obesity we have record rates of diabetes metabolic dysfunction is effectively your metabolic health not working well it's if you have some of these issues there's a reason that glp1s have taken off so much because a lot of people need that support. They need something that can help them address the metabolic issues that mostly, in my view, mostly have come from the food system.

27:43Joe Shalaby:We have basically run an experiment over the last 50 to 70 years of giving the Western world, America in particular, huge amounts of processed foods. And after a couple of generations of doing that we're now seeing the effects, which is all of these really negative effects on people's health. Part of that, a large part of that, I think is controlling blood sugar and making sure that your blood sugar can stay steady. So that's, you mentioned early in the show, that's one of the reasons why we did a clinical study. So we actually did a clinical study on our product at a lab a couple months ago. And we demonstrated that basically we had two groups of people, one group consume white bread and compared to them, we had another group consume Atlas and the response to people's blood sugar.

28:34Joe Shalaby:Usually if you consume something that's like, like if you have a soda, your blood sugar is going to go right up and right down. And for Atlas, we had a 78 % lower response than having a slice of bread, which is really low. It was very negligible. And the reason that's important is over the longterm, if you can keep your blood sugar more like this and less like this, you're going to have a much better health outcomes from a metabolic standpoint. Like our bodies can do this. If you, if you ingest a lot of sugar or, um, it hits your bloodstream quickly, your body can, can react to that and can bring you back, but it's not designed to do that every single day, multiple times a day for decades at a time.

29:14James Oliver:I mean, you're right in line with the current movement, eat real foods, right? With RFK's objective with Mike Tyson, he's got Mike Tyson and him campaigning.

29:23Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, I think politics aside, I think it's hard to argue with the idea that humans should eat real, like the fact that we even have to call it real food tells you that there's something that we've done something weird. Yeah. It should just be food. We shouldn't have to say real food. It should just be, it is food. But yeah, I mean, it's clearly like, if you look at countries or cultures that have adopted our way of eating the Western diet, virtually within 10 years, 10, 20 years, they see immediate upticks in these disorders that we're talking about, diabetes, obesity. So our way of life in America for the past 50, 100 years, it's just not sustainable.

30:09Joe Shalaby:And we do need to change it. And the easiest way to change, not the easiest, but the most logical place to change it is with the food that we're consuming. And we have the ability, we have the ingredients to make better versions of what we consume. Like you can have Diet Coke or Coke Zero as opposed to a bottle of regular Coke that has whatever, 60 grams of sugar in it. And the shift, I'm impatient for the shift to happen because we can change it. We have the ability to, but it should just happen a bit faster than it is. Yeah.

30:38James Oliver:I mean, the shift is coming, obviously with political campaigning, lots of dollars and celebrities kind of backing it. It's crazy to see what teenagers look like when John F. Kennedy was president and what teenagers look like now, right? Because, you know, I saw that the health exams that they would give to high school students, you know, went viral on Instagram a few times, and you saw what these guys were doing. They were doing insane workouts to pass their, you know, high school physicals. And now nobody, like the elite athletes only look like that in high school. But that was the standard back then.

31:13James Oliver:But, you know, it's a great thing, and it's good for me to see as a father the shift that's happening at a political level with health. Because when I grew up, you know, you had to figure out what's healthy, what, you know, how to navigate these things. And now my five-year-olds can be like, that has too much sugar. I'm not eating that. And literally, they said that to my nanny this morning, you know, like, don't put sugar on my waffle. That's already, you know, not a real waffle. It's like, uh, you got a smart five-year-old. Yeah. You know, the kid, the, the, they're cognizant of this stuff now just because they're so, you know, it's, it's really, uh, an important part of their lives, you know, and, and, uh, the people that are around them and, uh, the people that they're exposed to their social influences.

32:06James Oliver:So, and it's, it's, it's a great thing to see that shift happening because it's just going to be you know, longer lives for them, more prosperous lives for them because health is, health is, well, 100%.

32:19Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Um, I think the idea of a health span and expanding that's a really good idea. It's not how many years are you alive, but how many years can you do the things that you want to do?

32:31James Oliver:Health span is much more important than lifespan. I mean, and we're seeing that materialize at a you know public level now nobody your life's been what are you gonna you're gonna live till 90 but 40 of your years you're sick it's worthless i'm gonna live till 90 i'm gonna be able to lift weights the whole time you know like and i still want to play sports i'll probably digress to just pickleball but you know when i'm 70 but you know like that's the goal right just to stay active and vitality is super important. I'm big on these biohacking protocols that are popular now. I don't think they're fads.

33:12James Oliver:I mean, I try to follow as many as I can. But it's good to see also the shift in Gen Zers. You see a big swing in Vegas right now plummeting because Gen Z doesn't drink and they don't smoke and they don't gamble. They don't do all the crazy stuff that millennials did, right? So the shift is coming. The tide is coming towards health being the reason, a big reason for a lot of companies to change the way that they operate in general. Yeah.

33:47Joe Shalaby:Yeah, for me, a lot of companies, they respond to demand, so they won't make a change until consumers demand it. Like if sales start to decline, they're like, oh, we should fix something because consumer demand is waning and we need to do something else to get demand going again. I'm maybe a little idealistic, but I wish that companies would just do the right thing initially so that you don't have to go through that process. Like if you know that what you're doing is probably not the best for the people that you're selling it to, just don't do that thing or modify whatever you're doing so that it helps people as opposed to waiting until people figure out like, oh, this consuming this thing probably isn't the best for me.

34:28Joe Shalaby:And then they stop consuming it. And then the company is reactive and is like, oh, now we should, we should do something else. Cause they, they realize that this isn't the best for them, which I think is what your points, what you're saying about Gen Z is that a lot of them have kind of seen that these things probably aren't the best.

34:43James Oliver:to do is let's let's not do those yeah and that's why you're seeing vegas completely shift their business model which is going to be fascinating to see over the next years how they turn vegas into

34:53Joe Shalaby:a healthy place yeah what are they shifting it to you know they're just shifting into more

34:59James Oliver:influencers and and and making it more of like a new kind of hollywood thing you know and making it more of like uh an area for for people to uh longevity to be you know like a hub you know like that's a shift huh yeah they're not trying to make it like come here and get like the days of um what was their mantra what happens in vegas stays in vegas that's like dying you know that's dying that that idea is dying and i love to see it you know i love to see that fall to the wayside you know the the things that the blood that was laid for for for for sin to sort of diminish has been great you know you saw that all the things that i and i hope all the things that charlie kirk was advocating for slowly start to penetrate the society yeah i think it will happen

35:58Joe Shalaby:yeah yeah just it just takes time it takes time it takes generations things got to cycle People don't change their habits overnight. Society doesn't change overnight. So I think we're both right. The shift is coming, but it's gradual. It's gradual.

36:15James Oliver:Yeah, exactly. Now, let me ask you, when you were creating the Atlas Bar products, was there any major decisions that you regret?

36:26Joe Shalaby:Yeah, there are a bunch of decisions, just mistakes that I've made. I can't even tell you how many mistakes that I've made. whether it comes to certain product choices or branding choices, branding choices. Yeah, exactly. It goes back to what you were saying a few minutes ago. If, if I took everything I know now, and I went back and like put it in my downloaded it into my 21 year old head, I would be able to get to where I am today in probably a quarter of the time, because you just know all of the, the pitfalls that you don't have to, like the things that I've learned, I've learned because I've made the mistakes and now I know not to do that.

37:04Joe Shalaby:But you save so much time if you just don't even have to go through that process of like, I tried that, didn't work. You can just do the things that you know are the right moves. So yeah, there's mistakes that have been made in terms of product, branding, distribution, pretty much every area of the business I've made a mistake in.

37:23James Oliver:And I mean, that's inevitable with any industry or vertical you're in. What did you study in college?

37:30Joe Shalaby:I graduated with a degree in economics.

37:33James Oliver:Okay. Econ major. I mean, a lot of that applies, you know, to what you're doing. Yeah.

37:39Joe Shalaby:Yeah. I wish it applied. Honestly, I wish it applied a little bit more because a lot of it is, it's more like theoretical, like academic economics about like a supply and demand graphs, which when you're figuring out how to get cash to pay a vendor is not, it's not, it doesn't apply at all. No, it does not, it does not apply at all. Um, but, uh, the most useful classes I think I took were, were entrepreneurship classes that really just teach you about like this, how you read your financial statement, cash flows, balance sheet, all those things, um, which I wish I'd taken more of, but, um, here we are.

38:18James Oliver:Now, what's something in the nutrition space that really nobody addresses?

38:25Joe Shalaby:That's a good question.

38:29I think that in general, there's a lot of, not like greenwashing, but there's a lot of terms that are thrown around that aren't really well defined.

38:42Joe Shalaby:Like people say like these are functional foods, but it's not really clear what it does to, does for consumers. Sales jargon. What's that?

38:52James Oliver:They're just sales jargon terms that just sound good.

38:55Joe Shalaby:Yeah, there's a lot of jargon. And I made the mistake of like of using some of those. And then I because I saw like others use those. And then I was like, oh, that actually like my intuition that that doesn't really make sense is right. And so I think that there's still and this is probably true in every industry, but a lot of those jargon terms, I think that there's just it creates kind of noise and confusion for consumers. And you also I found that you really don't have to use them. if you know what people want you just say those things and you really don't have to use them like in our case we like the product is gluten-free but we never say like these are gluten-free bars because the majority of our customers just don't care about that and so every every piece of copy or every second that you spend talking about an attribute or something that people don't care about is one that you could have spent talking about something that they do care about and so I think that there's just a lot of waste when it comes to trying to communicate with consumers because a lot of brands, I don't think, fully understand what their consumers actually want.

39:57James Oliver:Now, piggybacking on that, what do you think consumers care about in the health food space right now more than anything?

40:04Joe Shalaby:I think getting seed oils is a big thing. Getting seed oils out of their foods, getting sugar out of their food. Obviously, protein is a big one. I'm glad that they're, I think that they're in the process of revising the guidelines because for the past maybe 70 years, the guideline has been 50 grams of protein a day. A lot of people don't realize though that when you look at that nutrition label and you look at the percentages that this is whatever, 50 % of your daily value, those daily values were based on the idea of preventing disease and preventing dysfunction, but they're not values that are agreed upon, like this is an optimal amount of this, this amount you should have.

40:49Joe Shalaby:So for protein, we now know it's probably closer to whatever, like a gram per pound of body weight, but 50 is like the baseline. That's like what you should, the bare minimum of, of what you should consume. So I think there's this, there's this, um, give and take between like, as policy changes and as our labels get updated. And I know that the government right now is trying to enforce stricter guidelines when it comes to what food manufacturers are able to use in foods. I think that also helps shift what people prioritize in their, in their foods. But I think the big ones right now are more protein, less sugar, less processed, pretty much all the things that I'm trying to, or that at least kind of sits in the middle of.

41:33James Oliver:Yeah. So you're, you're using what, monk fruit in yours? That's the sweetener.

41:38Joe Shalaby:Yeah. Monk fruit's the sweetener. Yeah. You can use, if you're looking to use a natural sweetener that doesn't have any calories, you can use stevia, which it just comes from a plant. It's like a leaf. Monk fruit, it's also just comes from a plant. They're both super, super sweet. Like if you ever have it by itself, it's like 300 times sweeter than sugar. So you only need a tiny amount of it. And then you can also use, there are more, there are like honestly new sweeteners and ingredients inventions that are coming out every single year. There are now proteins that are sweet and you can use sweet proteins that the technology is beyond me.

42:16Joe Shalaby:But it's really cool to see everything that's happening because it just expands the scope of what companies like us are able to do.

42:24James Oliver:Now, let me ask you a couple last questions before we wrap up, but this one, you know, you could answer or don't answer. What's something that you've never said publicly, but you feel like right now might be the time?

42:44Joe Shalaby:I think that if you are, if you're thinking of starting somebody, if you're thinking of starting something, like starting a company, whatever, and, and you like, say something, say one of your friends is thinking of starting something, they're like, should I, Joe, should I like start this, and you tell them no, then you shouldn't start that thing. and that's enough to convince them to not do it you shouldn't start that thing so basically if somebody were to ask me if they should start something i would tell them no because without even knowing what it is because if my no is enough to dissuade you from starting it then you weren't going to have enough uh grit to go through with it if just one person's opinion is enough to stop you from starting it then you weren't going to have enough um yeah grit to to follow through with it.

43:32Joe Shalaby:So that's something that I've thought of. And it's kind of counterintuitive because people think that you should be encouraging, but it really is. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to start something, especially in this day and age. And, um, I think that most people, they might think that they want to, but the amount of sacrifice and just grit and work it takes to start something to make it successful, I think is a price that a lot of people are probably not willing to pay. And they're probably better off for it. They're probably smarter if they're not.

44:02James Oliver:You know, I feel like that concept actually applies to anything in life. Like if anything derails your goals, then it's not, you know, what are you doing? You know, like you should be relentless at whatever your goal is. Like nothing should stop you. Be able to run through a wall.

44:18Joe Shalaby:Yeah, nothing should stop you, especially like one person's opinion. If that's enough to stop you, yeah.

44:24James Oliver:Then what are you doing? I got to ask a couple last questions. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? A business goal that you have for your business and a goal that you have for your family. You're in your 20s. I don't know if you have a family yet, but, you know.

44:39Joe Shalaby:A personal goal that I have for myself, I would like to travel the world for at least just a year at one point. I got to be working that whole time on that.

44:50James Oliver:Yeah, I know. You'll be working remotely that whole time, right? Right.

44:54Joe Shalaby:My ultimate goal would be I'd love to drive around the world on two wheels. So on a motorcycle, I got a moped last year, a Vespa, and I drove it from North Carolina to New York in a weekend. And that was I loved it. It's so fun. That's cool. So I'd love to do an extended version of that. On the business side of things, it would be great to be able to build something to a point where it's it's viable enough to sell it. I think that would just be a great experience to go through. It would be just super educational. And I think it would be, yeah, an awesome, awesome kind of milestone to reach and way to end a chapter.

45:34Joe Shalaby:And then on the family side of things, I did get married a year and a half ago. It was 13 years I've been with my wife now. So I don't know if we have any near-term goals. Maybe getting a golden retriever.

45:53James Oliver:No kids on the horizon. not not yet no not for the next next uh next year or two um but at some point i think yeah you know once you have some kids uh it'll make it all worth it the whole grind will make sense yeah last question you know you've dedicated your life to basically making you know a better future for society and i think that's very noble and honorable what you're doing so with that said when you're in front of the pearly gates what do you think god's going to tell you

46:27Joe Shalaby:you cut your audio cut out like the last sentence when you're in front of the pearly gates

46:33James Oliver:what do you think god's going to tell you

46:43Joe Shalaby:if if i've done my job well i i hope it's just you did good that's it That's it. Yeah. You died on empty.

46:56James Oliver:Love it. If people want to connect with you, how do they find you?

47:02Joe Shalaby:If you search James Oliver, you'll find my socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, et cetera, or through Atlas, Atlas Bars, you'll find me.

47:14James Oliver:Hey, listen, I got Atlas Bars in my Amazon cart right now. I'm going to buy them. There's a coupon I saw. I'm like, that's cool. They're not expensive either for real food bars. I'm always looking for the next thing to give my kids and myself, actually, because I kind of live on this stuff on the go. So I appreciate all the effort and the science behind making a perfect bar that's actually healthy and nutritious for people. Thank you for that. James, you've been a pleasure to have on the show. God bless you. God bless your mission. I hope every single one of your goals keep dominating, grow big, and keep helping people, man.

47:45James Oliver:That's what it's all about. God bless you, man.

47:47Joe Shalaby:Thank you, Sarah. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely.

48:10James Oliver:at emory university we believe in those with the ambition to achieve the passion to learn and the optimism to see the possibilities ahead. Founded on a belief that the wise heart seeks knowledge, an Emory education combines experiential learning in Atlanta and beyond with unrivaled collaboration and discovery. All to prepare you for a world that needs your leadership. Learn more at emory.edu. If you're a podcast host, listen up, this one's for you. My name is Allie Jackson. I'm the host of Finding Mr. Height, a dating and relationship podcast that I've been doing for four years now, sharing my positive and practical approach to dating that's built on my own life experience.

48:52James Oliver:And I wanted to share another experience that I've had, my secret behind monetizing my show. It's called Red Circle. And I was just telling my colleague about how much I love their platform. With Red Circle, not only am I getting a seamless hosting experience, but I also love the support I receive in ad sales. It's not just typical ad sales either. It's targeted opportunities based on my show and my life. And the platform is super simple. You just set your preferences and Red Circle matches you with sponsors that align with your show. You can vet every opportunity and their platform gives you great analytics.

49:21James Oliver:More recently too, my Red Circle team has brought me opportunities outside of my podcast on social media to really augment the podcast partnerships, bring them full circle. I just can't recommend them enough. If you want to give it a try, go to redcircle.com to get your free trial. That's redcircle.com for a free trial.