The Future of Architecture Is Carbon-Negative ft. Kevin Kennon | Coffeez with Joe Shalaby

0:00We lived, you know, we still do actually, you know, a few blocks from ground zero, the World Trade Center. Within about a week, my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site. And what we saw was just complete bedlam, you know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade Center souvenirs. And, you know, I just thought there had to be a better way, a more dignified way. So I developed the design and pitched it to the mayor. They thought it was great. And they said, with one condition, you've got to find the money to build it. And so we did. And we built the temporary viewing platform at Ground Zero.

0:40Welcome to another episode of Coffees. You know, it is truly, you know, beyond innovative. But please explain to the audience, what is carbon negative mean in building? And what do you do at, you know, just give us a 10 ,000 foot overview. Sure. Well, I think a lot of people might be surprised that over 40 % of global greenhouse gases, that those emissions come from the built environment, some from buildings and cities. And so many of us who are in the building industry, you know, have developed a sense of responsibility about that. And that goes beyond just making sure that we build buildings that do their best to minimize those greenhouse emissions, but also to build safely, to build lean and efficiently.

1:41And so there's basically a whole movement out there of determined individuals who are changing the landscape of how we build. and it's an exciting thing to be a part of. Beautiful. Now, you know, you've been such a legend in architecture in general. What really drew you to architecture in the first place? What was it that really was the catalyst for you? Well, my father was an architect, so I guess I grew up in that environment, and he was a great guy. He was very, and also ahead of his time in terms of designing buildings that were environmentally responsive. And so I guess I have that in me.

2:28And, you know, I grew up in just south of Los Angeles. And I think one of the first things that I loved about being in that environment was those crazy houses that were always built on the side of cliffs that they looked like they were barely being supported. And I thought those things were so cool. So there was something about living on the edge, I guess, that drew me to explore architecture. And it's just continued to be a very fulfilling career ever since. Now, when did you start Beyond Zero? Recently. Beyond Zero is actually a real estate development company, and we specialize in wilderness hotels and resorts.

3:17And when you build anything in extreme environments, you have to build with nature. You can't just come in there and bulldoze things because conservation is a big part of what we do. I see. So you still have your normal architecture firm that does the big skyscrapers. That's right. Yeah, I have a separate firm. I wear lots of hats. That's part of my daily existence. Yeah, so I have a separate firm that just does architecture, and I have another firm that just does real estate development, which is beyond zero. Now, what do you think the future looks like with the strategy? You're building strategy now to decarbonize current builds.

4:10What does that future look like? What motivated you to organize and create a healthier building? Well, so first of all, what's really exciting is there are so many incredible tech-oriented, green technology-oriented startups and companies out there. They're doing incredible things. so you know the the the in a way the the you know the the horse has left the barn um the genie's out of the bottle you know people are doing this and um and i spend a great deal of my time connecting with all of these innovative um types of companies and some of them you really should get on your show because they're doing incredible things um and and that so our world is changing and it's going to change rapidly, I think, especially with AI already, but certainly with robotics in terms of how we build and how we build in extreme environments.

5:15You mentioned something, and that's obviously a very hot topic. Will robotics completely change the way you're building right now? And when do you think robotics will be implemented in decarbonization building strategies? It already is. I mean, so robots aren't just simply, you know, the little animated men. You know, they're everywhere. They're already in all of our machinery and manufacturing. And so the trend that we're going to see more and more is that buildings are going to be built almost like Legos. um the they're individual pieces that are manufactured in controlled environments in factories and they're standardized and then shipped to the site and assembled um some of them you know entire components like if you're doing hotels you might have an entire room that's actually shipped on the on a flatbed and then kind of plugged in uh to those environments and so um So that's already happening, and it's only going to continue to accelerate because the cost to build is still prohibitively high, and that's something that all of us are concerned about.

6:39So in residential housing, that's considered manufactured housing. Yes. I mean, the people call it manufactured housing. I'm simply saying that less in terms of prefabricated homes and think more in terms of standardized components of buildings that are built off-site and then delivered to the site and installed. And so the less time that you have on-site itself, that's where a lot of the expense comes in. That's where a lot of the headaches come in. um also that's a safety issue as well you want to we want to design safely um so that that type of production is uh going to change and and i think rapidly change what we do you know there's so many theories about mitigating the cost to build one of them and i saw this and I don't know how viable it is.

7:433D printing buildings soon or 3D printing houses. They're talking about that as an option. And it's been done. But I don't know what kind of standards they are. You know, people are looking for so many solutions to solve the housing crisis because cost of building is astronomical. Labor wages have also, like, tripled. and, you know, imports are just getting more expensive. Lumber is just through the roof. I mean, everything just tripled. And there's just not enough houses for people. Yeah. Does what you do solve for the housing dilemma or is it just purely, you know, a commercial endeavor? You know, specifically, we're trying to push the envelope on how you build in extreme environments.

8:44I mean, wilderness environments. You're talking about, you know, edges of cliffs and rocky beaches and, you know, in far-flung places all over the world. So, but the way in which we do it has a lot of real world applications to helping solve what is a huge problem, which is housing and the affordability of housing. So anything that we can do to start to revisit, you know, how we make things and how we can do things more efficiently and safely, I think all of that goes into ultimately how we're actually going to solve a problem of, you know, how do we take care of ourselves? Now, if you were to look back at all the projects that you've done, you know, is there one project or a moment that truly puts you on the map where you're at now?

9:52Something that really catapulted you to this level of notoriety that you have now in this space. Yeah, well, again, I've been fortunate to design very complex buildings all over the world, skyscrapers, et cetera. But the one project that completely changed my life was right after 9-11. We lived, you know, we still do, actually, you know, a few blocks from ground zero, the World Trade Center. And within about a week, my wife and I decided we would go down and take a look at the site. And what we saw was just complete bedlam, you know, people climbing fences and guys hawking World Trade Center souvenirs.

10:39And, you know, I just thought that there had to be a better way, a more dignified way. So I developed a design and pitched it to the mayor. They thought it was great. And they said, with one condition, you've got to find the money to build it. And so we did. And we built a temporary viewing platform at Ground Zero. I kind of controlled a local scaffolding company to sort of put it together at cost. and it was all made of plywood and prosaic New York City scaffolding components. And it was an amazing experience and one of the most fulfilling things I've done and more than likely will ever do. Wow.

11:28So that was one of the original viewing sites of Ground Zero, huh? Yeah. Before they built the buildings there. Yeah, it was actually a deputy mayor had the idea of where to locate it, which was really terrific. It was right next to St. Paul's Chapel, which is a corner of the World Trade Center complex that was remarkably unscathed. And behind it was a cemetery with about 300 foot tall sycamore trees there. And we located it adjacent to that. and so it was an elevated um uh platform so you kind of ascended up to the about 25 feet up in the air and you couldn't hear a thing it was it was incredibly and almost eerily silent you could just look over and see the devastation and um at the same time you heard the kind of rustling of the trees adjacent to you so it was very profound thing to do and it was uh remarkable i think uh In terms of having that emotional impact and being able to understand the power of humility and humanity in the face of horror.

12:45What a remarkable experience. And that really transcends way beyond your architecture fulfillment, right? The irony is I'm doing exactly the same thing in terms of how we're building these hotels. it's very similar in terms of how it's put together. And we're using a lot of wood, mass timber, and cross-laminy timber to build these. So it's, you know, everything I found in my life, everything I've done, to some degree, I've already done and just kind of redo it over again. And it changes in different environments. It's an amazing and incredibly fulfilling enterprise. Now, I have to ask, you're in one of the most competitive industries.

13:44It's a very brutal industry. Yeah. Pretty cutthroat. now being in an industry that's so hyper competitive and only if there's only a few renowned architects and there's so many people trying to be a brand in architecture what's a myth or what's something they don't tell you about the climb in that industry about the client The client, if you don't have a healthy relationship with your client, you're not going to get anything done and you're not going to succeed. So you have to be able to, you know, the way I like to talk about it is that, you know, I feel like what I'm able to do is tell a client's story in terms of building.

14:41building. And sometimes that means a lot of listening, which architects don't do very well, frankly. And at the same time, a lot of recalibrating. You have to be able to sometimes tell your client that that particular idea, if we really pursued it, it may not work. but you have to do it in a way that's you know generally a part of a great conversation and and ideally it's a great experience for everybody uh and it's difficult to do it's a it's a perilous journey for a lot of people a lot of money at stake and it's extremely risky at the beginning you're starting with nothing um and you hope you're going to be able to get to you know someplace where everybody's satisfied.

15:38But if you don't pay attention and bring the client into the process, you're making a big mistake. Now, how did you rise to that level of notoriety in your space? What was it that allowed you to rise above everybody else? Well, one of the things, and this is another myth, You know, a lot of people get their ideas about architects from reading The Fountainhead or seeing movies like The Brutalist. And typically, the image of the architect is a kind of loner who doesn't listen to people and goes off and does their thing, and it's their way or the highway. But in reality, architecture is a very social activity.

16:34It is you collaborate a lot with and you put together a team of experts. You know, I work with the best engineers in the world, other architects and, you know, interior architects, landscape architects. And that's really what we do. And I guess I'm I think I'm particularly good at working well with others and guiding them and leading them. And, you know, I like to say I'm a conductor of a symphony of experts. I was just going to use that same exact analogy. I was going to say you're a conductor in a symphony then, you know, and that and that's really how the architects shine is how well can they get everybody to collaborate.

17:23That's right. That's right. To create a masterpiece. Yeah. Didn't look at it like that, but, you know, this is why I love this show. I always learn a lot. um now let's talk about your pivot to beyond zero because you know that's obviously your focus now that's where your passion lies and frankly that's kind of like the hottest thing in building right now anyways is building you know the way you're doing it now what was the turning point that made you say you know i got to do this business well yeah i i think the pandemic was a big part of it um you know when you you get you're under lockdown and in new york we got hit pretty bad with that and you're you're you're you're still working you know remotely but you know you have a little bit more time just to think um and i kept going back to my my youth you know i i grew up in palisbury's and just south of la and we lived right on the ocean on you know kind of a cliff and I think the thing about living in California in particular, you're always faced with the power of nature if you live on that sort of edge or either it's floods or fire or landslides or what have you.

18:45You're dealing with some pretty significant forces of nature and I grew up in that and I spent a lot of time outdoors and hiking and surfing and skiing and going all over California, which itself is just incredible. And I'm very fortunate to have done that. So I guess it just kind of came back. I started thinking more and more about that. And And then I was asked by a major country in the Middle East to evaluate a hotel in an area that was not dissimilar to Monument Valley in the U.S. And they wanted to put a 500-room hotel on the top of a beautiful mesa with nothing else around it, just incredible landscape.

19:45and I masked it out for them and did a feasibility study, and then I told them they were crazy. Find the vacation you're looking for in Missouri. Whether you're searching for this, wanting something like this. Oh, that's cute. Maybe up for something like this. Or just really, really need something more like this. You'll find the vacation you want in Missouri. Missouri, it's the getaway that gets you. Plan your fun at visitmo.com. They didn't like that idea, but I did think it was an actually really interesting thing to pursue, but on a much smaller scale, that would be more appropriate for the beauty of the site.

20:38Now, let me ask you, there's a lot of misconceptions about this decarbonization movement. architecture now what do you think the biggest misconception is with decarbonization in architecture right now you know i think there's there's a lot of what we call greenwashing you know um where um or or or kind of bean county where you're um there's something called lead um and it's a organization that essentially assigns points for if you do x y and z you get so many points and we add up all those points you either get a lead silver or gold or platinum um and and i i don't think that's that's really enough i mean i think people should really look at everything they do in terms of the specificity of that site and what its impact is going to be not just in terms of can i you know lower my greenhouse emissions but also what am i doing with the local community?

21:38How are you giving back to it? How am I impacting the land itself? And am I conserving? So taking a sort of longer view about the impact of what we do, and then imbuing that sense of responsibility on everyone. And I found in my career, when you know everybody has a stake in uh the enterprise of putting something together and um developing pride in what they do you just get a better outcome i i really want everyone to feel like they built the building not me but you know so i love that now you know what um we're hearing so much right now about sustainable buildings and eco designs but Beyond Zero takes it further than that how are you actually making buildings carbon negative well we start with I would say we start from a conservation first you know sort of nature first approach so right now um and all the different hats that i have to put on you know one of them is evaluating land most land we're looking at are is our ranches and southwest we're talking about 1500 acres plus so they're you know big sites and we we try to create as small a footprint of the building as possible so letting the rest of the site just be uh conserved the way it is um so that's i think that's a big part of the approach and then in terms of how we build we want to make sure we build with renewable materials and that we do as little as we can to disturb the conditions of our environment it's not easy it's not easy I you know I'm not here to proclaim that we're you know we we're gonna be masters of everything we do but at least going into it that's our proposition gotcha now and you're for seeing like this is this process is gonna get much easier with AI robotics absolutely also with I I mean, just, you know, the current political party is also trying to really expand on building guidelines, mitigating a lot of the red tape that you're dealing with in construction.

24:32Right. Solve for, oh my gosh, the endless issues that the red tape is causing and that the added bureaucracy has made it a nightmare to build. Yeah. Driving costs up. Yeah. How have you been dealing with that in your industry now? And what are your hopes for the future under the current political party? Well, you know, as a real estate developer, you take on a lot of risk and risk is inherent in time. You know, so the more time that it takes to do anything, you know, the riskier it gets. And the unfortunate part is that what we call the entitlement process and other people call it regulatory. But that entitlement process is and managing that is probably one of the hairiest things that you have to do because it's so much of it is unknown.

25:30You know, there's there's strategies for how to do that. And fortunately, I've been involved in a lot of projects that people have done that very well. But, you know, it's investment in that process. So anything that we can do. And, you know, I've been hearing a lot of this from, you know, both sides of the aisle, so to speak, that regulatory part of it, which was, you know, I think it was originally paved in good intentions, but has really unfortunately become an impediment to building anything that has got to change. Yeah, I mean, all legislation and all these regulators are all paid with good intentions.

26:24Yeah. But they're just government workers that have no idea what the heck you do. Yeah. And they add red tape without the proper research, and then they make your job a nightmare. and then now we have to get new political influence just to reverse what they just did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, New York is notorious for that as well. It's gotten better. I mean, there's some streamlining, but you're still dealing with human beings and bureaucracy, and, you know, that just, that's where a lot of that red tape can kind of fall out. So, you know, ideally we start to understand that there, and this is where I think architects can play a huge role, you know, because we have the training, a lot of training, and we have a lot of the liability on these projects.

27:29we should be able to self-certify that we're in compliance with the code and not have to go through panels of architecture review boards. And, you know, it's a, which I find a lot of it just kind of pointless and a huge waste of time and money and resources. But, yeah, I think that if you were, you're able to basically come in and say, you know, here I am, I'm licensed here, I do this, I follow the rules and regulations, and I certify that we're compliant, we would save a lot of time. Now, what do you think are the real blockers for you right now with scaling and being able to kind of grow this negative carbon architecture platform?

28:25point well you know we certainly you know we're losing um some incentives that were there before but i again i don't see that as a huge impediment to what we're doing because we're really partnering with innovative companies uh to do that so we're just driven mainly by tech frankly and you know and and accessing tech and and using uh we you know these are these are luxury resorts and they're sort of all built around regeneration and wellness. They're really about, you know, people coming to our, one of our hotels and, you know, regenerating, resetting in an incredible environment of pristine beauty.

29:18I mean, that's really what we're trying to achieve. And, you know, how you get there, I think, is really all part of what we do. And, I don't know, it seems to me that once you start to focus on that, everything else sort of falls in place. And so what had been looking at, well, we're kind of an environment where there might be some of the incentives, the economic incentives that were there before for, say, installing solar or geothermal, which is something we're very interested in. And it kind of goes by the wayside because people are already doing it. And there's terrific companies out there that have invested in it.

30:19And they're not going to stop. Now, what do you think you're most excited about right now about the intersection of design, tech, and climate? Like, what excites you most about this huge intersection? The fact that it's becoming just part of, and not to overuse this term, but part of our whole ecosystem, it's embedded into what we do. I think what's interesting for me, and I use AI a lot in what I do, and I find it to be very liberating. Now, I have the benefit of almost 40 years of experience where I understand is producing BS and I can interrogate it and get it back on track. But I think more and more people are going to start to use it and in that way it's going to be extremely liberating for what we're able to do and I think it's going to create efficiencies that we're only now just beginning to realize um inefficiencies and a lot of innovation i see that's that's the part of the story that people miss you know the the negative side is oh we're going to lose our jobs etc now we're going to create a lot of new jobs and new you know markets and and new types of companies that you know we we can't even begin to imagine right now so i'm very so far you know with you know with certain guardrails put into AI, but I'm very pro AI.

32:04Yeah. I mean, what you, what you described is basically everyone's hesitation, but the reality is, you know, markets will find a way. We're going to continue to expand and use these tools to benefit mankind. Right. And, uh, it is kind of, it's exciting to see all these changes happen so rapidly and how fast our society is going to progress with, you know, with, the big concerns with like global warming and all the issues, environmental issues and all these things that now we're solving for on the developmentals, on the real estate developmental side that never were factored in ever. Yeah, ever.

32:44Right. And that's the thing you can, it's so easy to do. You can keep inputting more and more parameters and it just gets better. uh you know and and for me as somebody who's always uh been acutely aware of the practical side of what we do you know making sure that we can design really cutting edge architecture but get it built you know realize it um and and and that in order to do that you have to be able to to to think about every aspect of that design all the way through construction realization all the way to, you know, when the first guest opens the door and then, you know, writes a great review and more people come and then it's a living environment.

33:42Now, a couple last questions I have for you. This one's about, you know, your legacy. what legacy do you want to leave behind with with your company beyond zero not just as a designer but as the actual founder uh well i you know i guess a lot i get you know a lot of people i think and certainly some architects i know go into architecture because oh i'm going to build something that's going to be there forever. And, you know, that's going to be my legacy. I don't think of architecture that way. You know, my legacy, I hope, is that as somebody who's more interested in humanity and making the world just a little bit better than when I left it.

34:49I think, uh, if that's, if that's what people remember me by, that's for me, that's would be extremely satisfying. Now, what's a personal goal that you have for yourself, a business goal that you have for your business and a family goal you have for your family? Well, I'm going to reverse that. I, I, I'm a dad first, so I have two great kids, and they're both in college right now. And so I'm very excited for their next chapter in their life. Any architects? What's that? Any third-generation architects? I don't think so. I don't think so. We'll see. You know, they kind of strike me as being more academics.

35:43Um, but, uh, we'll see. You never know. Um, and if they do, that's great. You know, it's not anything that I, I, uh, um, necessarily, um, you know, proselytize, uh, but, uh, and, and in terms of my, you know, business goals right now, you know, I, I really am excited about this journey that i'm on um when i talk to my investors i talk to the talk and you know real estate is is a different kind of investment uh because it's it's you're investing typically for the long term it's not like buying stocks um and so you know i always tell people who are investing with us that But for real estate, you have to imagine yourself living there or staying there or going to work there.

36:40If you can't do that, just walk away. If you can't project that it's something you want to do. And for Beyond Zero, we're really looking for our future guests, people who really would want that kind of experience, who want to be in the wilderness, who love nature. and love nature when it's great and you want to be outdoors, but also love it when you want to hunker down and sit by fire and talk to your friends. So that is, for me, the goal of the business. I'm not really doing it to make money. I'm really doing it because I think that type of experience is something that I would want very much in my life.

37:30And I think there are other people out there who share that sense of adventure and want to dream big. And your personal goal? My personal goal is every day to hopefully make someone in my... A very much day-to-day thing. And every day I wake up And I said, you know, I hope I make somebody I encounter in my daily going about their lives a little bit better. That's it. You know. That's what it's about. My last question for you, you're doing so much in terms of. Really creating your business to be of service to mankind. And there's a lot of honor in that. And I am a deep belief that, you know, you do God's work.

38:26He always does your work. And I really feel like what you're doing with your passion project, not having to probably even work at this stage in your life, but being so concerned about the future, it's going to have such prolific impact for generations. With that said, when you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? Well, I hope it's God. and um yeah i i you know i hope that uh he looks at the the uh you know nobody's perfect i i would be the first to admit it but you know he looks at at the or she you know looks at the you know my overall life and and says you know you did okay kevin you've been a blessing to have on the show i hope you had every single one of your goals keep crushing i want you to build so many skyscrapers in the future and help so many people just get out of this crazy carbon buildings that we have now.

39:27Yeah. People want to connect with you. How can they find you? Well, the easiest way is you Google me. There's only one Kevin Kennan, K-E-V-I-N-K-E-N-N-O-N. And from there, you know, you can find me all over the place. The other easy place to get me is on LinkedIn. Kevin, it's been a pleasure. We'll drop some stuff here in the notes. God bless. Keep doing what you're doing It's been an absolute blessing to have you on the show Thank you.