🥄 CARYN WASSER // LITTLE SPOON CHIEF BRAND OFFICER

25:59Caryn Wasser:Somebody messaged on Slack this week, like, it feels springy. Can I get Cajun shrimp nail polish yet? And everyone's like, get it. You know, we need Cajun shrimp bugles. Yeah, I know. Like, we can really close this loop. We could. We could. We could figure it out somehow. Yeah. And so I've got a nine-year-old little girl who's a huge fan and has grown up on, you know, on your product. It's amazing. and her favorite colors are teal and purple. And I'm like, wow, it's either like, it's either nine-year-old little girls or everything old is new again and everything cool is cool again. And like, we're back.

26:38Caryn Wasser:No, because you know what else is so hot? It's like dolphins. Dolphins are hot right now. Dolphins and unicorns. And like, it's giving Lisa Frank, you know? It's giving Lisa Frank. Yes. And it's like, are you going to want to be a marine biologist? Like, is this really full circle? I know. Yes, it's so interesting. And like we're having fun in that world, you know, because again, I think like for us, it's like naturally like there's something really delightful and exciting about seeing these like motifs back in the zeitgeist. but it's like fascinating. I remember, you remember that like shrink shirt that was like the little, yeah, that shrink shirt, like it's like popping around Soho, you know, and people are just walking around in their shrink shirts.

27:22Caryn Wasser:And I'm like, man, I should have kept my whole, you know, wardrobe of my mini shirts. You could be a millionaire. You wouldn't even have to work anymore. You could just be reselling. I know they would be like the original, original 90s shrink shirts. Yeah, could have been. I mean, the other thing I love about this angle is that it is capturing the hearts and minds of the masses of all of us. It doesn't have to be that expensive. It just has to be inspired, right? Like, I know that that was a big campaign, but I feel like one of the things that you all do so well is kind of being like, I don't know, either on the, there's a counter-culturalness in being on the front end of where culture and trends are being established.

28:06And if you find the right partnerships and the right brand partnerships in that, then the two forces combined can really punch above the weight of, you know, a better capitalized, more established legacy competitor who's by nature of the beast, back to the beginning of the conversation, inherently moves more slowly because that's just the nature of big machines and big ships.

28:28Caryn Wasser:Totally. It's a big part of our playbook. So like in the product collaboration universe itself. You know, Graza, we probably I slid into Graza's DMs. That's how that partnership started. I just DMed them and I was like, what's up? And they were like, what's up? But it just so happened that the founder, Andrew, had just welcomed a baby and his baby was around five months old. And he was like, wow, I'm, you know, in this stage right now. I'm literally adding olive oil into my baby's food. And at the time they were quite small, you know, but I had looked at them and I was like, gosh, they're going to be such a darling brand.

29:08Caryn Wasser:And I'm super interested in them. You know, these product developments for us, they go so much more quickly than these big entities. But still, you're talking about like a six to eight month like lead time from idea to actually having like a product in market. And so, you know, really that was the mindset was like we could really, there's social currency there for us. There's cultural relevance currency there for us. There have been times where we have partnered with larger brands and we are doing that for similar but kind of different reasons. With Graza, we also did a collaboration with Saws, which is another darling CPG brand.

29:47Caryn Wasser:It really is about, these are brands that are culturally really relevant and really current and exciting to the parent. And we want to tap into their foodie identity and really have them delight in sharing that, you know, foodie fun with their own kid. So those have been really powerful collaboration strategies that we've employed. And we've also been strategic around, like we did a collaboration with Siete last year. And, you know, that was knowing that we were entering retail for the first time and we really, you know, wanted to collaborate with a brand that shared in like a clean ingredient mindset and was really beloved on the shelf.

30:30Caryn Wasser:But you're not seeing Little Spoon collaborate with like Paw Patrol. You're seeing Little Spoon really make a conscious choice to partner with brands that are loved by the parent And that has translated into characters. Like we did a collaboration with Barney. But that was another collaboration that we made a conscious choice on because of the nostalgia factor and because it was so meaningful to the parent as much as it could be really exciting and enticing for the kid. So we're really putting the parent first in the way that we think about our approach to partnership, collaboration. And this is a very discerning customer.

31:09Caryn Wasser:And this is also a customer who's been messed around with. And so we are really choiceful around like who is the tastemaker that makes sense for us or the celebrity that makes sense for us. Like they are not going to clamor for a brand that has a spokesperson that doesn't feel like a genuine fit. And so really honoring like where this parent's back is with the category at large and really like taking that feedback seriously on the category and applying it to our marketing strategy has been a big piece of the puzzle, too. Yeah, I mean, and I think, you know, you labeled it, but I want to double down.

31:45Using the partnerships framework of other brands that your customer is buying for themselves.

31:51Caryn Wasser:Yeah, exactly. Rather than other brands that they're buying for, in your case, like their children, is such a good hack. Like, so smart. We might have to, like, redact this part of the podcast just so people can name it. No, it's honestly, I think, like, it's a great, it really is a powerful lever. And don't underestimate sliding into someone's DMs. It has done wonders for us. You got to shoot your shot and you would be surprised. I mean, even like on my own LinkedIn, like our first intern slid into our DMs and wrote a compelling message. You know, you got to shoot your shot. And most people are willing to reply.

32:30Caryn Wasser:And we've had a lot of partnerships come to life that way. Rachel Antonoff we did a baby puff with her I was kind of racking my brain like how could we do something fun entering the puff space and I was like man baby puffs baby puffs baby puffers maybe yeah and at the time her pasta print was huge like blow up like cult following always sold out and we pitched them they had never done anything kid related before and we were like man, let's do a pasta puffer with hidden veggies on the inside, like reversible little kids, kids jacket. And they were game to pull it off. And it ended up being a ton of fun and products sold out and ended up getting written up in many places.

33:16Caryn Wasser:And I am in Brooklyn Heights. So I have the like absolute joy of seeing that puffer jacket pop around from time to time. There's actually someone in my building whose daughter is still wearing that puffer jacket. it's the best. That's so cute. I mean, I think that's the other, yeah, you know, there's, there's merch and then there's like, I don't know, cultural expression through like these product extensions. And I think if you can create a strong enough brand voice that people don't just want to like wear your brand, but they want to like inhabit, you know, like represent and they're proud to be a part of it.

33:53Like that's, that's putting the parent into the story. That's putting the customer into the story. Totally. Yeah, totally.

34:00Caryn Wasser:And I think like, I mean, I think there are so many small brands out there right now, like that are kind of like my biggest source of inspiration. Because again, I think like maybe they are just a reflection of the time in which they are born in the sense that like there are there are no there's no like rule book the way that there used to be in terms of like these media opportunities. And you really can kind of catch fire in this different way. And I think there have been such there's been such an insurgence of creativity from these smaller brand owners that are really coming at their launches in a social first way.

34:38Caryn Wasser:And like that is where culture is happening. And so just the creativity there and partnership strategy or behind the scenes of the building of the business and what that really looks like. It's been super interesting and inspiring to see. Yeah, I think one of the so as a product designer by yeah I know I'm like I've got to interview you I want to know a lot I don't really know who I am anymore I mean what an incredible history of like just so much like exposure to so many things it's incredible yeah like so much invention and yeah very cool it's been it's been interesting to kind of pull together all of these different uh you know I ultimately I just like to learn things and so I'm like a sponge for like well that seemed like a hard thing to manufacture.

35:23Like, let me figure that out. Or that's, you know, that's an, that's a stupid way to do something. Like, let me. Yeah. But I love something I remember from, from like my deep product dev days is marrying two, like either materials or product identities that are like, like in a shocking way. So it'd be like, if I took my, my water bottle and I decided I was going to make it out of grass or, um, and that captures people's attention and they know water bottles and they know grass. This is a terrible example. But putting those things together becomes like surprising and in a familiar, but like interesting way.

36:05And I really love that about your overall brand strategy and overall marketing strategies. Like you're taking things that are familiar, but you're, but you're putting like this twist on them. It's like just delightful enough that everyone almost wants to like appropriate that for themselves. Like, like when you can capture the oh my gosh I wish I'd thought of that yeah you guys have you know yeah thank you that's a big thing for that's like a tool that people like you and I could help people to like think about or a framework that we can give them to say like if you know if you can kind of put two things together in like an exciting but slightly unfamiliar way people are gonna wish that they'd done that.

36:46Caryn Wasser:It's like, I think that it is about knowing thyself, you know, like if you really know who you are and you love who you are and you can like really nerd out with yourself, then like the weird and wonderful can happen. And I think that, you know, that's the difference between like a really well-defined brand and a brand that's perhaps just trying to kind of like catch the wave and see if they can pull something off. You know, I think that that's why ultimately I believe that brand is the unlock for everything. Like if you don't know why you're here, why you matter, what your worth is, what your value system is, you know, who you hang out with and what feels like the right fit for you.

37:34Caryn Wasser:It's hard to build partnership programs. It's hard to build a really robust and scalable marketing strategy. Like, where are you supposed to go? What are you going to say? How are you going to convince people that you matter? You don't even know why you do. So that's like not a very compelling first date, you know, like what, what is the, what are you offering me? You know? And so I think like, that's kind of what it boils down to is like the person you want to marry is like, they know themselves and they show up exactly as who they are and you love that person and you love the way they like show up in the world and all the weird and wonderful things they do.

38:13Caryn Wasser:So it comes back to brand to me always. And I think we just we honor who we are in a major way. And that can take forms that are like serious. And there's a lot of topics in our category that is really serious. And there are a lot of issues in our category that are really serious. But it's also like these kids are incredible and they tap into just the playful, fun and weird side of who we are, too. And also food. Food is love and nourishment. And so there's just so much texture and there's so much to pull from and play with as a marketer and a storyteller. I think one underlying probably rule set that you have running is like, who are you not?

38:57How do you guys know what to say no to? I just, you know, came up with the stupidest example of all time, like how to like abstract two things together in a way that's exciting and that you might say yes to. But how do you know when the water bottle made out of grass is actually really dumb? And like, we're not going to do that.

39:15Caryn Wasser:No, it's true. I mean, for sure. There's a lot of, I mean, definitely, definitely there's a lot of inbounds and a lot of opportunities that show up for us that don't feel right for us. I think that it is about like rooting in the core value system. And so one thing about us is like we're always going to keep it real. And that is a really fundamental truth of who we are. And so that's a really quick barometer for us, whether it's an influencer or an individual or a big brand or a retailer or a potential investor or whatever it might look like it's a scan a bowl like gut check of like how are they living and breathing in the world are they really keeping it real are they really you know kind of representing what we view as like the the most appropriate way to show up today like the current energy that comes from real earnest, earnest, truthful identity.

40:18Caryn Wasser:And so that is a really quick gut check that often filters out a lot of opportunity. And then I think the next one for us is always like, how does this ease or empower the parent? And empowerment could be delight and just make them feel seen. But empowerment could also be like, oh, this is actually like an offers a utility or a functional benefit to them. And so we'll go, you know, kind of right to that mission of like, does this make their lives easier and empower them and how? And that's another gut check that will filter more out. And yeah, I mean, I think it's about core identity. Like it kind of boils down to like, what's your value system?

41:02Caryn Wasser:And does this feel like it honors that or not? And there's so much like within that that is dumb and dopey. And it's like it's honoring the value system because it's real and it's funny and like it brings ease through laughter. It brings ease through levity like that's fun. And like parents deserve that. There's dopey and, you know, fun and playful versions of that all the time every day, for sure. And then there are more really serious sides of the fence. And like we have the most robust transparency program available in the U.S. when it comes to our food. There is no other brand that is offering the level of testing detail, limits, standards, commitment to vetting the ingredients and the food and the final product that we put in, you know, put on your child's plate.

41:53Caryn Wasser:Like we take that incredibly seriously. And that is just extremely hard, diligent work. That is a big part of who we are as a brand as well. So it's a really wide flex. But if you know thyself, you really can't go wrong, you know? Yeah. Well, and saying no to things is so hard to do. Yeah. Not only on the brand side, but as you're saying, like on the ingredient side to like To inhabit the level of transparency that you guys have committed to and are living in the world requires saying no to so very, very much in terms of suppliers and supply chain management and production methodologies, literally how it all gets made.

42:37It's really inspirational. I think you all doing that sets a standard and almost makes it feel safer for the rest of us to say no to those sorts of things. Yeah.

42:49Caryn Wasser:You know? Totally. And I think like one thing that actually Angela said incredibly recently, it's like if we can do this, it is a signal to the rest of the industry and the like food space at large. Like we can do this and we can offer this. We had an advisor. We have an advisor who worked with us on our heavy metals program. And he really is an incredible person. But he really inspired us with like genuinely like you have to be the change. Like you cannot wait for the government to, you know, kind of set and enforce a regulatory system. You cannot wait for others to like model the behavior for you to follow suit.

43:34Caryn Wasser:Like it is about drawing the line in the sand and deciding to be the change. And we as a digitally native brand, like Little Spoon was literally only DTC until last September when we launched nationally in Target. That is just the most intimate connection to the consumer that you can possibly get. And like, I will never forget the first time that there was a big heavy metal scare in the baby food space when I was working at Little Spoon. It was in 2021. And I think there was like eight of us working at Little Spoon at the time. And we had so many parents. Essentially, like the short for those who don't know is that there is no regulation in the U.S., no enforceable regulation in the U.S.

44:16Caryn Wasser:on heavy metals and baby food. Heavy metals are found in everything, but too much is too much and can be toxic. And when it's a little tiny baby body that is developing, there's really a limit that the EU has a really enforced law around. There's a limit that is deemed safe for consumption that doesn't exist as an enforceable law in the U.S. And so manufacturers were setting their own standards. But if they, you know, went above their standards, like no one's there to tell them they can't sell that product. And so what happened was they were selling that product and they may still be selling that product because, again, there's no like regulating enforcer of heavy metals in baby food.

44:59Caryn Wasser:And so there was this whistleblowing report, whistleblower report that came out in 2021. It ended up in a congressional hearing and this report came out. It was explosive headlines everywhere about it. And that day was just like therapy for families. There were so many parents calling in, terrified that they had inadvertently poisoned their children and terrified about the ramifications of that. And that was a day for all of us who were sitting there on like facts over fear and fear mongering is cruel in this category. And fear mongering is cruel. But this is just you're you're caring for a life.

45:39Caryn Wasser:You're holding a life. And the idea that you might have tried to make all the right choices and exposed your child like was a devastating possibility to parents. And it really, I think, just emboldened us. Like, I'll never forget that day. Like, we need to show up in the right ways. We need to honor these parents in the way that they deserve and show up with like an open mindset to learn from them and hear from them. And so we've known for years that the trust erosion has been so high in the category. And like, why should they trust us? Like, why should they trust any manufacturer? Like, they've been burned.

46:16Caryn Wasser:And it's a pretty high stakes betrayal, right? So we really subscribe to the belief, like, we need to earn your trust and keep re-earning your trust. And like, we are perfectly happy for that to be the bar because it's your child. So it's a big part of our identity and a big part of why Little Spoon has, I think, developed such a powerful reputation. It's the other side of sort of the cultural storytelling that really exists for the brand is like, how are we disrupting this category in this industry? And how are we trying to change that part of the world for parents at the same time that we are also trying to change this like more human side where we're showing up in the most current and fresh way for this generation?

47:06I mean, I think that's what, you know, it's such a great balance. You have the receipts, you know, and then so you're allowed to have fun, right? Like, right. But if you don't have the receipts, it's, as you say, kind of a betrayal to having fun and to be selling like, you know, liquid fun. Yeah, totally. Totally. You've also built on that even further with the community that you've built. Let's talk about that for a second and just how you've used community as a growth lever. No, you know, community is the rage now. But I think when you were starting with it.

47:39Caryn Wasser:Yeah. You know, it's hard. It's hard for marketing attribution companies to make money on something that's hard to attribute to. So there's this weird ecosystem of like, well, you know, I think people have caught on. Totally. Totally agree. It's another one that they're like, oh, wait a minute. This this might be something. I know. Yeah. I mean, I think it all boils down to like this very cool like club that you enter when you become a parent. And I remember being in a meeting. Is it that? Wait. well it's like i think that i've heard it described from like we interviewed a parent a couple of months ago for this um series that we're doing and she was like as as dumb as it is it's like like i didn't need to be in varsity soccer like i i ended up deciding to to play soccer and i ended up getting on the varsity team and like i loved being on that team but like if you weren't on that team it's okay like you don't need to experience it but once you're on it you're like, oh, damn, this is a cool thing, you know?

48:44Caryn Wasser:And I think like probably a decade ago, I was sitting in some, you know, platform, a meeting, maybe it was like Reddit at the time or Meetup. I think it was Meetup. And the two hottest topics on Meetup were parenting and dating. Those were like the two big things that people wanted to commiserate on. And, you know, again, digitally native brand, like we have everybody all together. Like, let's take advantage of that and let's create the space to commiserate and connect and also like enrich where we can, because that is a huge unlock and a huge opportunity for us on the affinity and retention side as well.

49:19So we

49:19Caryn Wasser:developed a platform called Is This Normal? rooted in the insight that like that is the number one question when you are a parent. And we we told editorial stories there. We brought in a bunch of experts and a council. We started a Facebook group that grew to like 16 ,000 members really quickly. And that translated into community events, much more grassroots in nature. We had a mindset of showing up in daycares across the country, like tier two, three, four cities, not for revenue, for brand presence. Just being there, being a part of your day to day was a big priority for us. And that was really the reason why it was just like we're part of your community, like we're embedded in in your life in that way.

50:05Caryn Wasser:We have recently reimagined how we're showing up for community. So we have a new education platform called Spoonfed that's actually like woven into the littlespoon.com experience. And it is also really built for the attention span that all of us have today, which is like we need the TLDR. We need like the glossary of like quick facts. We need video content. We need to be able to like play that at 2x if we want to. And we, you know, we that's what's going to really help us right now. And so we have embraced that TLDR with the name Spoonfed and with the mindset around the way that we're showing up on that platform and are excited this summer to do some fun like World Cup related community events and just like keep on embedding ourselves in the community.

50:57Caryn Wasser:Our daycare kind of program ended up turning into a whole arm of the business in a way. And it makes sense, you know. So all of that community first mindset has really translated into measurable results and business impact. And so exciting to see that and to keep doubling down. That's amazing. All right. Last question. What are you most excited about in this upcoming year? And I should I should qualify that by saying we're at time. Do you have to? Of course. You have to know. No worries. I know. This has been a good gab. Very good gab. What am I most excited about this year? Oh, boy. I am. I am.

51:42Caryn Wasser:I think that we are in a new phase in performance marketing. That is very exciting to me. I think that we, for better or for worse, are losing our ability to target through audience segmentation in performance marketing. And that puts much more onus on really knowing your consumer and who you are trying to target. And it puts a lot more power in the creative than even what we've been hearing over the last couple of years. You know, the opportunity to identify that a big subset of our customers are really health and wellness focused, frequent fitness studio users and active, you know, members of local gyms and local fitness centers.

52:33Caryn Wasser:That's like an insight that we can turn into persona based creative in a really meaningful way and trust that that creative will reach the right audience to really drive the right understanding of the brand and how we show up for them. So I am very excited about what that looks like in terms of just the precision available from a storytelling standpoint. And I love that for post checkout retention tactics as well, like the opportunity to really continue to refine our personalization to show up for you the way you really need us to is very exciting to me. So that's like a whole area that I'm pumped up about.

53:19Caryn Wasser:And I obviously am like in galaxy mind mode right now on AI and how we can really leverage AI as an enterprise tool for efficiency and workflows and knowledge, trust and really enabling ourselves to focus more on the critical thoughts and more on the strategy. And I am a big believer that it all starts with the person and the caliber of the talent. And I'm very excited to kind of navigate how to continue to like drive the culture that I drive within the team while also really enriching the team with tools that are going to like help them do their job better. So I have been working on some fun new tools that the team is now using.

54:11Caryn Wasser:One of them is like a whole brand world tool that helps them write briefs, helps them workshop creative ideas, helps them build scripts and hooks and captions and emails and is, you know, a tool that is enriched with consumer data, our, you know, our consumer mindset data, none of our private data, obviously. I can restate that. It's a tool that sounds incorrect. It's a tool that's enriched with all of our consumer mindset goals. It's enriched with what's working hard for us and what's not. And it's enriched with our brand book and our tone of voice and our core value system. And so it's a really helpful unlock for the team.

54:56Caryn Wasser:And it also is helping us drive more consistency in the brand messaging in a really exciting way. So it's like one example of something that excites me for the whole team and our ability to really build integrated workflows and an output together. So, excuse me. Yeah, we'll see. I'm interested in it and intimidated by it and feel intensely behind on it like everybody else. But like we were saying earlier, that that's like a human tendency. And the truth is, is like we're all right, right where we should be. And we're all going to figure out what it means and how to use it in the most meaningful ways.

55:36I think one of the things that I anchor to is kind of a moment of calm in all of that is like we've been here before. Social media became a thing. Right. And then like, oh, my gosh, we got a race to do it. I'm like, can't can't miss the moment. The moment is just like a really long. I know. I know.

55:56Caryn Wasser:Like, the answer is just to start because it will be here. Yes, totally. And, like, I'm a big history nerd and, like, it's an industry boom, right? And so, like, what have we seen in every industry boom? Like, there's this idea that it's going to, it becomes infrastructure over time, same way that internet became infrastructure over time. So I'm trying to skip to the infrastructure mindset and not get distracted by like sort of the immediate newness and instead really work on like how can I weave AI into the infrastructure and allow us to keep kind of shoring up our strength with this tool under our belts.

56:38Caryn Wasser:So, you know, we'll we'll all navigate it together. And it's really remarkable. What is this normal? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know. I feel like so interesting. Like there was a segment of time where we all were kind of like trying to use the best tools together. Right. Like we've got our internal SOPs, but like there's there's some, I don't know, generationally defining great tools to use. Shopify is a great example. Right. Like everybody just realizes, OK, let's take this part of the work and make it easier. And and, you know, we'll grow faster as a result. And that turned into like a huge consumer products boom.

57:17And I think what's so fascinating about this moment is that for many brands being ahead of the curve on building agents and using AI tooling to make their work, you know, faster and more reliable and more on brand and all of these things like that'll be a competitive advantage for for those who have chosen to stay on the front. Yeah, for sure. you know adoption curve and i wonder how many brands are going to turn into software companies by like some point sharing what they have built for themselves and and i'm living this in a really weird and meta way myself because yeah i as a brand built tools for myself and then like five years ago i was like i am going to share my tools but i'm not a brand anymore so it's not like i'm not really giving away my secret sauce in the same way it doesn't feel scary it feels joyful and yeah that's the moment where I turned something competitive internal advantage for us into something that I was like more able to share freely and I bet that there's going to be a lot

58:26Caryn Wasser:of brands that like share their tools in a really cool dead on totally you're so dead on and I feel like it's forums like these where like we could really get into it and really talk about it because you know, like we are the interested parties and like it goes back to those slack groups that I honestly find to be so cathartic and so valuable. Like, yeah, let's let's help one another understand and unpack. And it's it's such a good point. I see it, too, for sure. It's coming. Yeah. It's a good time. It's a good time to be in consumer, I think. Agreed. OK, we have a lag. That's a sign from the universe.

59:06I know it's strange I guess it's our sign yeah thank you for spending extra time I can turn my camera off to see maybe it'll catch us up where can people find I know I turned my camera off to help us and yeah where can people find you and how and how can we be helpful to you and and again thank you so so much for being so generous with your knowledge to help other founders in the space

59:31Caryn Wasser:Of course. Yeah. No, my pleasure. And people can find me on LinkedIn, just my little old name, and you'll be able to hit me up there. So look forward to it. All right. Karen, thank you again for coming. Such a fun combo. So nice to chat with you and meet you. You too. Thanks for coming on. All right. Have a good one. Bye. You too. Bye. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Commerce is Chaos. If you're listening, I have a feeling you know just how much good at leaving a five-star review can do for a team. Drop us a review on Apple Podcasts and subscribe to Commerce is Chaos wherever you get your podcasts.

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