🧻 GREG BROWN // DUDE WIPES SVP OPERATIONS

22:01Greg Brown:It's just a matter of time. Um, what, this is a complete non sequitur to that previous line of questioning, but I want to know what is the most like ridiculous thing or position your marketing department has put you in inter operationally. So like where you're like, thanks. Now I have to go do that. Yeah. You know, I mean, I wish I had like an awesome, funny, funny story because like we have so many funny marketing things that we do but it really comes down to just like executing these really big programs and displays and like you know like hey this is a really i wish i had a picture i could show you to be honest because i think it would do it more justice but it's how do we bring to life these really creative displays of funny things happening and making them appropriate for retail still.

22:56But, and then getting that done, right. We just did the little dude's side end cap display and it's got this big thing. I wish I had a picture of it and, you know, and I wish it was a funny story here, but it's really just like, all right, the artwork showed up wrong, you know, and then it's like, it's a scramble and then we got to get to the warehouse. We got to look at what we have and, you know, and it's, it's that chaos of, you know, the execution of the brand and, and then you got to figure it out. You just got to make it work. We can't have time to print and do all, you know, so then it's okay.

23:29So how do we pivot? And it's the problem solving aspects of operations, which I think is the fun, the fire drills. Right. And, and, you know, so it's not necessarily a, a funny position that they put us in. I think, you know, setting up the booths, right? Expo West, big one for us. We, those, those are more funny, right? Because you, you put up this big, I think last year we had to do like,

23:54Greg Brown:we had mannequins and it was, you know, their butts out and we would put a little chocolate ganache on the mannequin's butt. And it was like, here's dry toilet paper. Watch me wipe it. It smears and then here's wet you know our toilet paper and watch and it dries and that yeah and that's more like but that's something that we do culturally for fun we bring everybody in and we have everyone interact with it so but setting that type of stuff i guess is a little bit you know goofy but yeah i don't know if there's funny stories as much as just like fire drills you know how do we get this done fire drills i got i got one for you i think as the category leaders that you are, I think that there should just be a flushable wipes trade show and we'll call it a shit show.

24:37I love that.

24:39Greg Brown:But like it can just, and everybody only has a week to plan it. I think, I think that would be, I think that would be so cool. I mean, yeah, we, we would have so much fun. I mean, we think about this all the time. Like we just, the other day, you know, opening a new warehouse space in Northwest Arkansas, So we were talking about, man, our CEO, Sean, was like, should we do Duda Palooza? Should we have like a concert and a big party and like just make it all dude? And I was like, let's do it. Now that operationally would be an ask because I'm like, okay, I'm starting to think, okay, well, I got shipments I'm going to have to get out the door.

25:18Then we're going to be holding this festival at the warehouse. So, you know, ask me in a year from now what my craziest ask will be and maybe I'll have a funny story. for you.

25:29Greg Brown:Yeah. There you go. How often do you guys get pushback from, from retailers? And I mean, and for what it's worth, I mean, I'm probably pushing the envelope more than the dude brand even needs it pushed because you guys are funny and irreverent, but you're, but you're not profane for the most part. No. Yes. Exactly. Unlike some of us on this call. No, I think it's a great question. Yeah, definitely. I think we have to check in. I mean, definitely in retail, you know, I think we have to be thoughtful and there's a few art considerations that we have to do from a, you know, especially on the display side of things.

26:06But, you know, really, I think we got more pushback when I first started than we do even today. Right. And that's because we've been breaking this wall down and making this platform of talking about poop and talking about wiping and bathroom culture. And now it's kind of getting accepted. Like it's just becoming OK. There were definitely companies and retailers that were more okay with it three years ago and other ones that are just came. Okay, fine. Like I need this in my store. So yes, I'm okay with it. But I can tell you not all retailers are jumping on dingle bells. Like I don't need to have, like, I don't know yet.

26:41And I'm not even Dunkin Spice, which isn't, you know, I think that's bad, right? Yeah, like that took a barrier. And then, you know, what we do, we say, okay, cool. We're going to throw it on Amazon and it's going to kill it. And we know it's going to kill it. And then we'll show you the data. And then next year they're like, oh, I want those dollars in my store. And then they bring it up. So we let data tell the story. You know, we're data driven. Let's let data tell the story, the sell story. And if that means we have to wait one year and the proof of concepts on Amazon or Walmart really leans in with us, which is huge retailer.

27:13while what's doing it typically other retailers want to follow as well yeah yeah i think that's

27:19Greg Brown:that's a big part of how how much you sort of start to build power and brand in the conversation is like who's leaving this right like am i begging for attention from this retailer or is this retailer desperate to put me on their shelves and it's so interesting like to watch the passage of that dynamic over time as the brand scales because i mean i remember just i remember begging and and like and like hoping secretly and you know because you got to like put on a good face and then you're like they're not gonna do it yeah and then eventually it was like you know there's a line and and here we go and and like i'm gonna i'm gonna try to serve everyone but like you know you kind of missed your chance last season so absolutely yeah it's really yeah interesting to be inside that shift especially especially because when it happens on a dime it's the ops team that kind of has to like i was like okay now we're guys we have to make it possible.

28:09Oh, every, everything. And, and for us, you know, we really saw it this year, this year has been one of our toughest years on inventory and not because we had any problems with inventory, but because we are growing so fast that we're having a hard time keeping up, you know, we have a plan for the year. And when you're blowing that plan out of the water, you've got stress on the system. And, you know, luckily we're a big company, we can, you know, a bigger company, we're out of the startup phase and we can figure out how to handle that. But as startups and, you know, that's, that's a real challenge actually when you grow too fast, it's, it's, you got to be okay with saying no sometimes too, when you really start catching fire.

28:48Greg Brown:How, how have you guys, and I don't know if you're on the front lines of this conversation, but I know it affects you at least substantially if you're in, maybe you are on the front lines of it, but like balancing, accessing outside capital versus like waiting a little to bootstrap it to like, you know, the next inventory return? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I've obviously, we look at all that and working capital and, you know, we, I really appreciate the way when I came in, the dude was, so in 2021, dude was really just catching fire. I mean, they were always steadily growing. And up to that point, I think they at one point tried to raise a little money in early COVID days when things kind of caught fire that was our big like break because no one had toilet paper but everyone had dude wipes so it was forced trial and um yeah we uh i a lot of they they weren't successful in being able to get anyone on the hook for what they were hoping the value you know um and i wasn't part of this conversation so i don't have all the details but they uh essentially they just focused on the fundamentals.

29:55Keep it simple, keep it focused, and let's bootstrap ourselves. And so we believe strongly, and I appreciate the way the founders went about this, is fundamentals. We are building a fundamentally strong company. We have to be okay with saying no if an opportunity comes up, and we don't want to stretch ourselves too thin. I love that. I've seen different philosophies work different ways. And I've seen success in both models. So I think, you know, I don't think there's a right answer. I think it depends on your objectives and your goals as an organization. But I do enjoy that we were fundamentally just a very foundational, we have a great foundation, and we've really taken that stride of like, we're going to live within our capacity.

30:43Um, and, you know, we did just take on a minority investment recently, um, from, uh, from TSG, uh, uh, which is great. We're super excited about that. And that's, that was a strategic move for us just to continue to fuel what we're, what we're doing. So, um, you know, we're really excited about that, but at that point too, we're pretty mature, uh, from a midsize company. So, um, you You know, that's just to help us continue to the next phase.

31:11Greg Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Do you does does compliance fall under you in New York? It does treat this kind of differently. Yeah, it doesn't. We do have a product team that are Sean, our founders overseas, which, you know, is typical. A lot of founders are the product person. Right. Which I think is totally good. But but it is something that we talk about. And I do I can talk on it if you have questions. I, you know, about it. I mean, I have hard-hitting questions about compliance, but as the chief compliance officer of past, it's just always one of those areas where there is just such an instant upskill needed, right?

31:50Greg Brown:To like enter a category, be growing the category and kind of be on the jagged edge of how regulators and retailers think about your products in your category. So it's really that line of questioning that I'm most interested in is like, how do you navigate that within a relationship? Yeah, I mean, within the relationship, for us, it's a lot of education, right? The word flushability isn't a word that a lot of people are well educated on, right? So for us, you know, the first thing is it's showing that there is an industry, there is a standard and meeting that industry spec and standard is key, right?

32:28And the flushability, what does that mean? It's educating the buyers. It's educating the people we're working with on that. Luckily, these buyers, all they do is buy in these categories. So they know the categories really, really well. So they're familiar with IWSFG, which is the International Water Service Flushability Group Standard, which is like the gold standard that you want to be at in the U.S. And the key from an operational perspective, we have to be familiar with that, too, because every product we make has to hit that standard before it leaves our facility. Right. And that's the baseline that we just can't compromise on.

33:06And then from there, you've got to stay close to the conversation. How is it evolving? How is it changing? How are we educating consumers? And in that, as DudeWipes, we've joined the Flushable Alliance, which is with other big players in our industry. That's where we get to be close to how regulators are looking at this and how the country is evolving. We would love to see more non-flushable regulation come in, labeling better on products. We think it's a little weak. Right. We we want Flushability to be more taught and more more educated. And and yeah. And then, you know, obviously from an education or sorry, from an operational standpoint where we live, it really lives and dies on the quality and the supply chain discipline.

33:53Right. Partnering all the way up the supply chain with strategic partners that are in the, you know, have the same mindset of us, have the same high quality standards of us and then aren't just like saying checkbox. Cool. I WSFG. We meet it. It's like, how do we keep pushing this forward? And we want those types of partners. So. So, no, I don't oversee it, but it is something that we talk about and something that we have to be super and hyper aware of because we have a really high standard. for our product. And that has to get translated into how it meets the customer.

34:29Greg Brown:And I think you make such a good point about sort of like compliance helps, right? Like regulations really help. And one of the ways that they can help folks in operations the most is just by eliminating or making more narrow the gray areas. And it's so difficult to interpret ambiguous laws. And so my primary experience, and particularly, you know, with reference to regulatory, regulatory compliance is in like cookware and housewares. And there's some recent regulations that have been introduced at the state level, which then, well, if you want to sell in one of the biggest states and one of the biggest economies in the world, in California, you have to comply with California.

35:14Greg Brown:Basically, California will like lead, lead a standard that then becomes sort of like at least internationally, if not globally relevant from a kind of need to maintain perspective. And you look into the letter of the law or the bill or whatever it is, and you're like, what? Like, I can't even understand what you're talking about right now. So how am I supposed to do a good? I want to do a good job. But how can I do a good job when you've sort of written something that can be interpreted four, 10 different ways? And I think that one of the gifts that larger operators like you can give to smaller operators is really like pushing, you know, on both sides of the table to say, like, tell us how to do this because then everybody else who's playing in the pool with us is going to benefit from it.

36:04Greg Brown:And if you can't, then we'll like, how can we possibly be, you know, a multi hundred billion or billion dollar organization and comply or risk not and the financial and legal and ethical consequences that would come with that. And so you really like helping everybody else. Totally. And that's what we want. Right. We want more straightforward. Keep it simple. Just be clear. And and we want those labels. Right. there's a lot of bad actors out there. People flush baby wipes. Baby wipes are not flushable. But do they label that super, super clearly on their packaging? Or, you know, some might, some might not.

36:43Or even within our categories, there are bad actors who don't meet the standards that they should be meeting. And those are all things that we, you know, we'd like to see. Keep it simple, make it more clear to everyone that wants to be in this market. For sure.

36:58Greg Brown:Yeah, I think that the bad actor element is something that's interesting to talk about because, man, it makes it really hard to be a good actor when everyone around you is being a bad actor. Yeah. Anecdotally, another thing, like I remember just deep diving on like silicone service temperatures, like really early on in building my business because I'm looking at like stuff from all sorts of different brands. It's a different temperature listed on every single package. I'm like, well, what's different about this silicone than that silicone that makes 300 degrees Fahrenheit and this one like 800?

37:34Greg Brown:Is it seriously like it's like called a rocket scientist. Really? Yeah. He lives in San Diego. Sweet guy. The best. And that's great. Yeah. And I was like, I need to understand what's going on because like what I'm reading on this competitor spatula packaging is basically like the surface temperature, the surface temperature of like a solid rocket booster. He's like, yeah, you literally, he said, sweetheart, if you figure that out, call me and we'll be billionaires together. That's so funny. That's so funny. Like you won't have to be selling cookware. Of course not. So it was impossible. At some point, the laws of physics take over.

38:18Yeah, but no, it is. I mean, that's so true. And packaging, I think packaging can be very confusing and misleading. And you see it in all categories, right? People, I mean, everybody, I think the most obvious one is what does organic mean, right? Or what does pasture raise versus, you know, whatever all those different labels are. And it's, as a consumer, I think it's frustrating. So we would like to help drive clarity and education around that as a brand and not on the, what does pasture raise mean, but organic, but on the flushability.

38:49Greg Brown:Product line extension? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Why not? And by the way, I am a fan of the cookware that you guys came out with. Oh, thank you. That's very good. Yes. Yes. So I think the other the other challenging thing about your position is that there's there's not only sort of like a like a more technical aspect to this, like, will it work? Can it be flushed right without the water system or doing harm? And then there's like, well, what are people going to do? Because, you know, no matter how well you label the package, someone might just throw a baby wipe in the toilet. it. And so you've got like the dual burden of educating the consumer on their behavioral interactions with these products, not just like how they're, how they're marketed or positioned or regulated or whatever.

39:39Absolutely. Absolutely. And once again, we, we truly, and I think, you know, not being on the marketing team, but I pretty sure we'll start a little bit of our own education platform like through our marketing a little bit more over the next year or two. And I think it really comes down to just, you know, trying to level up the consumer on what they're using in their bathrooms and on their bodies and why they should care, you know, and what's different about it all. So, yeah.

40:09Greg Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I feel like I could keep asking you, like I could ask you 150 more questions. What questions should I ask that I haven't yet? What questions should you ask? What does everyone need to know? I mean, I think, you know, what does everyone need to know? I think what Dude is doing really well is, once again, is how lean in our approach to growth and how we, you know. So I think, you know, we talked a little bit about the crack team. You can ask a question about what we're doing. I think AI is a pretty big buzzword. buzzword. So, and I think all operators in, out there need to get themselves leveled up probably on, on what even AI means, but you know, I'm not a pro myself, but, but yeah, I think, I think dude's doing some really cool things in the automation and AI that has allowed us to stay lean and scale this company and navigate some of those fire drills and just in ways that I haven't seen done before.

41:17Greg Brown:So is the crop team helping you? Me on my day to day? No, it is not helping me personally. But it is helping the business we and the crop team is expanding. You know, we have Diesel Dan right now, who is our logistics agent. And we will have a sampling agent to take some things off of some people who are just entering sample orders all day, Right. Like that's not a good use of time. That's not strategic. So, but yeah, I think, you know, for, for us, it's don't get complacent in what you're doing. Like, like if you're doing something, we want people managing exceptions, not managing just like the flow of business.

41:59Right. So it's, it's all about breaking down with people and working with different people across the business and especially in operations saying like, okay, like, do you really need to open and look at that order? Right. Or can we have some type of automation? So, yeah, I don't know. I think if you would ask me something that we're doing pretty cool on the operational side is we're pushing this automation AI world kind of forward. But the big call out there is we don't force AI. It's in our toolkit of automation. I think anybody who's forcing it, you're probably doing it a little wrong. Yeah.

42:37Greg Brown:Well, and it's so interesting because, I mean, agents are quite clever and very productive. And I think one of the things that goes wrong in AI implementation or one of the potential pitfalls of AI implementation at big organizations is that. So there's the folks that are like building the agents. Right. And like really how they work. They get the intent. And then and then there's sort of the team that's like, OK, well, it's just going to do my job for me. Right. And they miss how important, at least at this stage of where we are in this frontier, you have to have a human in the loop. And you have to be looking at what's going on because there are, well, these language models are inherently random.

43:22Greg Brown:Like that's part of it. They're doing every task, almost every task, literally fresh every single time. So you can train it and tune it really, really well. But ultimately, it has no memory. It's just trying everything for the first time, every time. For sure. And it's, you know, you make, you make a good call out and we do always have, if we're, if it's more of an AI solution, we always have a human in the loop. And, and really, I think for us, and another big thing is like, people shouldn't look at it as replacing jobs, you know, I mean, it's, it should be elevating your employees to focus on something else and not have to spend time on that maybe more mundane tasks.

44:00So really, I think, too, it's a mindset and a culture that we're trying to establish at Dude. It's like, how can everyone be leveled up by now having this assistant or having this thing help do something? And, yeah, you've got to check in with it. And you've got to make sure it's doing it the way you expect it to be working and the human in the loop feature. So, yeah, it's a great call out, the human in the loop. And, yeah, it's not a click and forget. Absolutely. Absolutely.

44:26Greg Brown:I've had some of the most fun at my job recently has just been like building agents. Because I have a job to do. And I'm like, okay, this is going to take me whatever, six hours or something. But I'm going to have to do it again next week or next month. And so I've just been building myself robots. I'm like, now I have five agents that just do stuff for me. And one of the things I'm excited about for folks within any size of an organization is just that empowerment layer of like, build yourself. Like, just do what you're doing, but with a co-pilot for a second. Absolutely. You know what I mean?

45:06Absolutely. I mean, you got it. Like, that's our philosophy. Everybody should be having these things. Help them become more efficient. Help them be better at whatever it is they're doing or brainstorming. I mean, whatever it is, like it's a level up. And I think and it comes with education and it's educating yourself, but also educating your org and giving everyone access. And, yeah, we've seen great success with it. And I think it's really been and continues to be, and I say AI, but also just automation in general, is a way that we've stated, you know, we're scaling a business way faster from a revenue standpoint and operational standpoint than we need to from a people standpoint.

45:49And a lot of that, I think, has to do with how we've embraced trying to, you know, really manage exceptions and let the business run on its own where we can. Yeah.

46:01Greg Brown:Exception-based processing is like one of those sort of like niche-y Illuminati phrases that I'm like mildly obsessed with. Yeah. I mean how you fully get there, I don't know, right? I don't know if anyone will. Yeah. Totally right. Yeah. Like the impossible dream. But getting closer and closer. Looking at, you know, news not noise really is another thing. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and, and once again, it goes all the way back to that core, keep it simple, right? It's how do we simplify business for people and, and, you know, take away the noise. I, yeah. So I think, yeah. So I think that's one interesting thing that dude, dude's doing and that we're finding success with that's relatively new for us.

46:42And, and we're having fun and making, dude, defying it a little bit, adding the dude-ness and yeah. So it's, But yeah, there's a lot. We're on a wild ride here, and we're having a lot of fun doing it.

46:58Greg Brown:Greg, you know how to pick them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been fortunate. Or maybe they know how to pick you. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But no, two really great experiences, different experiences. I would say food is pretty complicated in itself for all those who are in food. It's hard to keep it simple in food. uh so um i don't envy envy that uh your former self absolutely absolutely so but um but no yeah look uh dude is dude is awesome in our operational challenges you know now we're doing a warehouse move expanding production um you know how how do we do that uh the way with you know keeping the quality that we want and all that stuff that we kind of were talking about so you know there's some really fun challenges that are ahead of us and ones that I think, you know, get us to that next stage.

47:55So it's, it's a lot of, it's going to be a fun challenge for sure.

47:59Greg Brown:Awesome. Well, I'm glad to have a front row seat to you guys tackling all of it. It's been really fun to be a customer since the early days. And yeah, excited for you guys to go crush it. And, and the way that you're messaging what you're doing in, in, in the world. And as you're sharing clearly on your team as well as, is really admirable. So thanks for coming and sharing so much. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. This was great. Talk again soon. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye.