🍜 LAURYN BODDEN // S’NOODS FOUNDER

0:00I'm Sam Rose and this is Commerce is Chaos, the podcast for consumer brand founders who know that building a business is messier than the highlight reel shows. Your supplier just missed their deadline, your top product is out of stock, and your competitors somehow just launched the same thing at half the price. Sound familiar? Every week we dive into the real problems that keep founders up at night, from inventory disasters to supply chain nightmares, because surviving the chaos is what separates brands that fail from brands that scale. Lauren, you built Snooze into the first chef-driven noodle chip brand.

0:33In fact, maybe just the first noodle chip brand. Does chef-driven really have to be the asterisk there? Because you won Netflix's Snack vs. Chef, which I saw that episode, it was so rad. And you've gone from a KitchenAid pasta maker in your home kitchen, love a home kitchen story, to entrepreneurship. and you're in like hundreds of retail locations now, including Fairway, dearly beloved from New York, ShopRite, the Fresh Market. And today I'm really excited to chat with you about all of your approaches to sort of developing this like first to market product that you've taken from concept to scale.

1:11And hopefully the people listening can get some like some of your hard won lessons and ease their own journey. That's the objective is we're just going to help other people do it.

1:21Lauryn Bodden:I mean, I feel like all founders know you have to pay it forward somehow. So that's like, it's a nice thing to know that, you know, I went through the hard times. So if I can make it easier for you, we're winning some way. So I'll take it. so okay so you go from like winning this competition uh and you've got a tv show idea and you've turned it into like a real cpg business which is a totally different ball of wax although i think frankly it's probably harder to win a tv cooking show so you've done the hard thing you would think that but yeah here we are but here you are what inspired you to just like you know take the make it real path yeah i mean i've always i've come from food i've worked almost every part of the industry in food, except for CPG, consumer product vids.

2:09Lauryn Bodden:And at the time, I was a food editor for an online publication. I was doing recipe development. I was writing a lot of cultural food pieces, connecting with a lot of different people and just learning a lot about food while also trying to educate a lot of people about food. And it was during the pandemic. And I kind of was at this with wanting to do a little bit more, wasn't sure what that was, found myself on a Netflix show. And it really wasn't ever in my realm to think of launching a product, let alone launching a snack product. And so for me, I was kind of going through this show experience being like, I'm going to learn a lot about packaged goods.

2:48Lauryn Bodden:I'm going to learn a lot about how snacks are made. Like I was always obsessed with those, like how it's made about like different food product shows. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to get all behind the scenes and everything. and so when I found myself on the finale they were like what do you want to make I was like honestly I didn't even think I would be here so um I'm just gonna be you a minute and I I worked in a lot of Italian restaurants I've grown to love every form of noodles whether they're Asian inspired Italian inspired wherever in the globe they come from and so for me I was just like oh man like guilty pleasure I wish I just had a bowl of noodles to snack on and I was like oh like Like that's, I feel like a concept.

3:30Lauryn Bodden:Like for me, I've like wanted to put more of these culturally specific foods or products back into the aisle. I feel like a lot of things have been whitewashed and also working in digital, seeing how SEO, search engine optimization really drives not only like what people are being fed online, but then also what editors are writing about and how they title things. And so it's just, yeah, I wanted to get a lot of these like flavors and cuisines that I've grown to love and admire into really any aisle. And it felt like snacks is really like this low hanging fruit that people, it's really accessible to people.

4:11Lauryn Bodden:And there's not a huge price tag on a lot of them. And then noodles is a great way for, there's noodles in just about like every corner of the globe. And so that also felt like something that was accessible. but then getting it into like these more again like culturally specific dishes if you will so yeah the idea stemmed from taking these like actual noodle dishes calling them by what they are and then making them these different shapes and textures not well I guess not noodle textures per se but with each kind of like different shape of noodles it is inherently like these different textures which is also the thickness of it yeah yeah I mean I could go on and on it's like Yeah.

4:53Lauryn Bodden:So all of this just kind of like snowballed. And then when I won, it was just like, wow. I mean, I actually I love this concept. This is really novel. Yeah. I mean, it was clear the reception from people that there is a hole in the market for this product. And I really did want to see it come to light. Did I know how to make the product come to light? No. And so it started with Google and a lot of learning and a lot of pushing and a lot of conversations. I've made a lot of strides. And yeah, it's really exciting to see where the product is today. There's still so many things that I want to do to improve upon what we have and then also just extend the product line.

5:31Lauryn Bodden:Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. The past year, we launched in February of 2024. It's August 25, and we're in over 300 stores and just growing. that's so great okay so my biggest takeaway so far is and you said you you like to learn which i feel like is a real through line for successful founders and entrepreneurs who are just like what i learned from you just now it's like you don't actually have to know anything to start you just have to be willing to learn i'm like honestly you see some of i mean you you see some of the people that are that have a successful company out there or that have sold successful companies and you're just like, I mean, I feel like I'm smarter than you.

6:12Lauryn Bodden:So if you can do it, I mean, there's, I, I've kind of noticed in my career, like I do have this bit of imposter syndrome, but at the same time, I do kind of go after challenges with this, like, I know like that person did it. So there has to be a way for me to figure this out. And I'm going to find people that know how to do it, talk to them. And then we're just going to, we're going to push through. And And that is also the founder mindset. It's just you have to just keep pushing and it's just know it's going to be hard. But like you just can't stop. Just can't stop. Yeah. That seems to be like the same DNA, you know.

6:46Lauryn Bodden:Yeah. Will not take no for it. We're just I mean, I won't lose. That's that's the. Yeah. Well, there's a competitive streak element to it, too. Like if you don't enjoy positive friction, a.k.a. competition, then you probably won't enjoy the entrepreneurial journey because every day is a fight like that. Even if the fight is with yourself and what you don't know yet and competing with yourself to be like, okay, I'm just going to tackle this challenge. I'm going through a moment like that in one of our businesses right now for our software platform where I'm like, okay, there is just like a whole SaaS, like go to market thing that I have to, I'm building a product and then I'm building the products that sell the product at the same time.

7:29And then I'm selling the product. And I'm like, whoa, it's a lot of simultaneous learning curves that I have, like, you know, familiarity with. Right, right. The pieces and edges of it. But it's like, today you're just going to like code landing pages. Like, oh, OK, today I'm going to code landing pages.

7:44Lauryn Bodden:That is my job. And just figuring out, too, with so many priorities and so many things that you have to learn, where do you start? Like, where do you prioritize it? Everything is a priority. So yeah, and doing that all while you're like, yeah, time is money in so many different ways. So how did you validate? Okay, so you've got this idea on TV, and it works in front of like judges and cameras and in this very kind of like contained and let's say let's use the word like produced environment. What helped you bridge the gap between this works here, but it's going to work in the marketplace such that you were like okay with spending your own time is money time yeah on building it yeah we went I initially went and took the both the product and built this kind of sort of what I would imagine a deck looked like for a new product I had no idea and it was like I look back at it now and it's I feel like a five-year-old built it just because you have no idea and in the beginning really too what are you trying to I mean too with this new kind of product concept like what am I trying to put out there what does this look like and yeah how am I trying to sell it and so I went to a couple different culinary incubator programs at different schools and talked to a couple different people and they essentially were like yes this is this seems like an amazing idea but you already like have the concept because at this point too I knew how to make snacks.

9:14Lauryn Bodden:Like we learned how to do product development on like us, I would say a somewhat manufacturing level, but understanding like how I can take a tomato and roast it and take those fats and then make a seasoning from that. So really being able to construct this more nuanced snack than I would say like an average consumer could. So I had a lot of what it took to kind of bring this to the market, except for kind of the more operational side experience of it. Yeah, I feel like I just Googled a lot and found a lot of communities and networks that put me in touch with the right people to figure out where do I even start and when is the right time.

9:58Lauryn Bodden:In terms of the market validation, I ended up doing a Kickstarter very early on because I found it a way to get that interest and kind of show sales numbers in a way. And while I was also trying to fundraise and trying to figure out how to make this product. So it was in like a lot of different stages of getting like, OK, this is this is something. This is definitely something. I kind of got the validation in a lot of different stages from talking to different communities, different leaders in the industry, as well as I did a Kickstarter, which kind of helped show me that validation and numbers and kind of like a roundabout way while I was also fundraising and figuring out how to make the product.

10:41Lauryn Bodden:So it was, yeah, a lot of different stages where it just felt like, OK, this is definitely something we should keep going. Yes. Yeah. And I feel like those those kind of like early signals and takeaways of like asking a person and then like you're going to get some feedback and then like, OK, asking a cohort of people and get more feedback and learn more. And then while asking maybe like, you know, a couple thousand people on Kickstarter. And just sort of building the flywheel for yourself of like conviction that this is a good place to, you know, spend your time as money time. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

11:12And, okay, I want to hear the story about your very first batch. Oh, my gosh.

11:20Lauryn Bodden:Like, tell me, narrate the how it's made of the first batch, because then I want you to narrate the how it's made of today. I mean, the very first batch was literally on the Snackers show. And that is, like, I had never even thought of it or considered how to make it or anything before that challenge. And so I like had somewhat of a concept of how different chips use different kind of what words that I'm trying to find. Yeah, different ingredients and how they worked when whether they're fried or baked or however. And so knowing that I knew personally I wanted something crunchy and to hearing on the show, I heard a lot of stories about how people at one point I did have kind of like this ramen snack and everyone was like, oh, like I always eat instant ramen blocks at the corner store.

12:10Lauryn Bodden:And so it was like a lot of connectors where I would hear things that I was like crunchy, like I feel like it should be crunchy. And knowing that the chip category is such a big, but like very like high velocity category, like there's a lot of players, but those players do very well, like there can be a lot. So I just kind of put together a random recipe of what I thought would work and went for it. And it was a I got to the final part. And I also was like, I'm going to hand roll these. What initially I wanted them to be were like cascatelli. And it was like at the end of that, I was like, these look like gnocchi.

12:47Lauryn Bodden:And I was talking with the producer on so many levels. I was like just crying because I was like, one, they look like gnocchi. and everyone's going to flag me as like this person that calls himself a chef and like they don't even look like what I said they were going to look like and biting into them I the texture was horrible they were more airy and like all these things that were just not what they were meant to be so I just kind of had to like bite by tongue and watch as the judges ate it and um I feel like they were very nice about how they tasted but I think overall like the biggest thing was the flavor and the concept and that is really why I won because version one was not it and how they are made today is completely different I would say the texture is really this cross between a chip and a puff they're really airy but they're light and crispy and then the biggest thing for us is our flavor I mean we're really trying to hone in on this like develop seasoned flavor and that's why they we say chef crafted because you're getting these more like rich flavors that you would think that someone spent all day cooking versus kind of like these more like bottom line like I didn't want our I would say like a red sauce to taste like a pizza flavor.

14:00Fair because you can find a lot of pizza flavored things in the way that you can find banana flavored things and you're like wait all these things taste the same but yours are more are like more bespoke and you've done flavor development.

14:11Lauryn Bodden:More yeah like complex. Yeah like even our best-selling flavors easily our spicy miso ramen flavor and ramen has so many levels of just complexity to it and even thinking about what is that heat component or what is that like slightly sweet component that's going into it like those those things can come from a lot of different sources and so making sure that not only are we kind of like we are culturally specific to those dishes also and making sure that we're honing in on what people expect or even, you know, blowing it out of the water. How do you find a Coman for something like that? It took so long.

14:53Lauryn Bodden:Did it? I and that's initially that's why I also was handmaking them for so long. Coming off the show, I know that you can't handmake a Cheeto. And so I knew that I could never make this product how I wanted it to be. and but then trying this outreach where I I mean I didn't even know how it could be produced or how it should be produced and so I'm reaching out to people to say like here's this idea I have I have no idea what kind of machinery you have or what I think I know you make these kinds of snacks and that feels like in my group but do you have like one like guidance or I mean no one's taking the time to read these emails.

15:37Lauryn Bodden:Yeah, it was a lot of like I talked to pasta manufacturers to be like, can I have time on your line to put in my formulation and then you ship it to me? And we tried that. And it was still like, I mean, they make pasta, they don't make snacks. And so like, I can't, I couldn't do R &D with them, essentially. So I would still need to outsource different parts. I moved into a commercial kitchen to try to scale up as I still search for a co-man. And I ended up Actually, I got a grant to go to a trade show and that allowed me to just put this product out there. I created packaging for it and just showed me like this is kind of the concept that I want.

16:15Lauryn Bodden:And I am looking for a co-man. I want to be gluten free. I want to be non-GMO. I want to be all these things. Do you know someone like it actually came from that, that someone put me in touch with my co-man that's two hours away. So they're also close to me. Again, like networking, just constantly asking people, do you know someone or can you put me into touch with anyone? And then, I mean, pay it forward. Pay it forward. And there's a great, you know, I think adjacent to that pay it forward concept, which so many operators and manufacturers are really surprisingly willing to do. There's kind of like this, if this, then that effect that you're alluding to, which is like, if you can make pasta, then can you make this other thing for me?

16:57And you sort of like go through these decision trees of like, okay, well, if that pasta maker can't do it or isn't willing to like give me time on their line, then like, maybe I don't have to talk to pasta makers anymore. Maybe I'm moving on to like this other segment of the manufacturing market and to just really make the decisions as small as possible, as soon as possible.

17:17Lauryn Bodden:Yeah, exactly. Find your way. Yeah. And I mean, coming from like not the operational background to just know, I feel like the right lingo. And I mean, it is this space that I feel like is very difficult to talk in and very aggressive too you can absolutely i mean i feel like it can be easy to get lost in the sauce um and to spend a lot of money on operations and or like lose money on overproducing because you just don't know and so finding that special someone that will actually help you grow help you understand the product knowing that there's going to be these nuances and maybe not having these large a minimum or quantities for you to start with.

18:05Lauryn Bodden:That was very helpful for us in the beginning. And our manufacturers have been able to grow as we've grown. And we even started with a completely different product, a completely different process than what we have now. So we've been able to change our process and our production quickly and evolve, which has been very wonderful and very, I would say, a big part of our journey. I think finding the right size of manufacturer or in the case of CPG, co-manufacturer is so important at this stage because, you know, you overshoot and there's huge MOQs as you're referring to. And then there's just money tied up in all of that.

18:50And that's money that you can't spend on other new product development or a person to come help you, you know, grind or marketing or packaging or design or, you know, any of these other things that are ultimately all a part of the product, even though they're not the thing that's in the bag. And if you go too small, then you'll have someone who is either, and here's the scariest part, they're desperate for the business. And so they sort of like overstate what they can do. And then you don't find out until too late. And then you start to scale and they're buried or they didn't really have the ability to support what you wanted in the first place, but they were willing to innovate.

19:27And this is, I mean, it's a good, you know, it comes from a good place. They're willing to innovate in their business in order to help you innovate in your business. But ultimately like they're, they're not capitalized for that. And so I think what you're pointing out, which is like, find a manufacturer that's the right size for the type of business that you are prepared to build in the first year or two. And then of course, be willing to like have the conversation with them a year or two in of like, can you grow with me or should I start looking? Cause that finding another one is gonna take time too, you know?

19:58Lauryn Bodden:Yeah, absolutely. I would say it's been figuring out that too where it's when certain issues come up and I, again, I'm learned so much and I would say, yeah, I am, I know our operation in and out, but it took a while to get there and understand, too, how things work and just expectation setting and how do we pivot now once this has happened. Yeah, having a very clear, transparent communication line with your co-man is so crucial, especially early on. And so that way, when these things happen, they also feel comfortable enough to come to you sooner rather than later and trying to like problem solve on their end alone and just kind of like wasting this time where you could be doing it together.

20:48Lauryn Bodden:I think, yeah, it's been really wonderful to have people that understand and kind of see the vision and are really bought in, but then also can say when things are a little off or, yeah, we need to figure something else out or something. Versus, yeah, making me just spend more money. Right, right. And I think you're touching on something that I love to come back to, which is like, these are physical processes. And so I think from the outside in for someone who hasn't stood on a production line or stood up a production line on behalf of their own business, the idea of manufacturing can be like so, I don't know, like fixed and glossy.

21:31Like a manufacturer does this thing and it's sort of in this little black box and I maybe don't even have to think about it, but like I'm gonna find someone who can do my thing and then that'll be it. And the experience of standing on the production line is like, well, it's chaos. It is war. And it's also so joyfully, awesomely creative. It's like a problem solving physical thing that is literally moving through time and space and chemical and physical transformations. And we're trying to figure out how to get a mostly known but slightly unknown results at the end of it. Like the unknown part is, is the texture right?

22:10Is the flavor right? Does it need a tweak? Like we kind of know where we want to go and we know what it's not. But sometimes knowing what it is, is hard at the very beginning. And yeah, from far away, I feel like that it can feel like so abstract and like there's just these sort of like machines in the sky that make it all work. And at the end of the day, it's like you got to make friends with someone and go figure something out with them, like in the way that we all did sitting at school desks when we were little. And you're like assigned a partner for a project. And then you've got to like figure out how to work together and figure

22:46Lauryn Bodden:out like, you know, what good looks like for your project. And is everyone working? I mean, I would say I like I related a lot, a lot of partnerships throughout just having a CBG company. I related to dating, whether it's it's my co-man or an advisor. I mean, there is this like initial period of like, yeah, how do you communicate? What are you like? Like, what's your personality like? Like, what do you bring to the table? Like, am I going to have to compensate in certain ways? Just like, yeah, really knowing. I mean, is this like a long term thing or are we just getting to the next one? Like, what is what's happening here?

23:25Lauryn Bodden:So yeah, I feel like to having those people that come at it in that way as well is is vital. Anytime I've had someone enter a conversation or a potential partnership with me and they're like, well, let's feel this out, you know, see if it's right. That's like someone I'm like, OK, I already feel very comfortable. But that I mean, that's that trust is so hard, too, in the industry, especially when you're such a small team. Yeah. Okay. Well, so let's talk about the size of your team. I know you're a solo founder, which is like such a, so incredible, such an undertaking. What does the team look like now inside and outside?

24:01And I want to talk about how you and the folks around you are managing, like there's so much to do, right? Like retail relationships and there's inventory planning, there's marketing, and then there's maybe fundraising. And if it's just you, how do you start to build help around yourself? And what did you, what did you think of first when you were like, well, this is a lot, like I need X.

24:21Lauryn Bodden:Yeah, I mean, I would say probably the first person that I started working with was one of my mentors. Helen, who was one of Helen Park, she was one of the judges from Sack vs. Shep. And so when I was doing just product development in my home kitchen and going through, okay, here, I tried rice, I tried rice and lentil flour. Like, what do you think about these things? And then she was the one that was really like, because I was just kind of kicking the can down the line, unsure of what to do next. And she was like, listen, you're, you're always going to have issues. It's never going to be perfect.

24:53Lauryn Bodden:You just kind of have to like choose to fuck up and just start, start effing up. Um, and so that's kind of like how I started building it. And it was, I've had these individuals that have come from like different points in my life that I have almost like, yeah, like brought onto the team, whether they've wanted to or not. I have a close friend that was helping me with like personal marketing. And now she's a close partner of mine helping me when day to day, as well as our fundraise and everything. And I've met a lot of people through different startup organizations, or trade shows that have kind of, they've approached me as really big advocates and fans of snoods.