The Viral Educator: Warren Smith on Wokeness, Campus Culture, and Losing His Job

35:26Coleman Hughes:in some way that the attacks on me were a little different because i'm black and hispanic obviously so no one was calling me a straight white male and and i was under no pressure to condemn my own identity like you mentioned that there is a way to get within their good graces if you're a white guy, but what you have to do is like put down white guys. You have to be like, you have to be very like disparaging towards yourself as your ticket in the door and accept a certain level of subordinated status, which is a really unnatural thing to do. And, and so I always felt I respected more the white people that didn't do that because like in order to if you do that what you're basically saying is you are so desperate to be liked that you're willing to just accept blanket discrimination against your identity as as the price of entry into this room of like being liked and I always thought there was something really disgusting about people that did that like if you really believe all the stuff, it's like, okay, you're a true believer.

36:43Coleman Hughes:And then you could actually have an interesting conversation. But if it's clear you're doing it as just the method of being liked in this particular weird environment you find yourself in, I found that to be very off-putting. And I respected more the people that were like, no, I'm not doing that. Why would I ask anyone of any race, anywhere in the world, to say the price of entry into this social club is you've got to condemn yourself first on the basis of your race. Like it's so, there's something really sick about it. And so that was all around Columbia too when I was there. I'm curious if you pay much attention to what President Trump has been doing vis-a-vis Harvard and Columbia and other schools in order to try to pressure these schools to reverse all this stuff.

37:39Coleman Hughes:Do you pay much attention to that, and do you have an opinion on it? Yeah, I mean, enough to be able to, I can share my thoughts on it. I have real concerns around taxpayer money going to these universities. I'm trying to remember if Emerson is taking any of that money. I don't, I should know that, but I know Harvard is. and the justification you're going to get if you debate this is well they're conducting important research but then when you talk to professors there and i worked at harvard as a videographer recording classes i'm not like a faculty there or anything but i've spent a lot of i did my thesis at harvard spent a lot of time in the archives there and have spoken with many professors some admit that a lot of this research is it's not going it doesn't really justify the taxpayer money and i i agree that if if there's actual and what i i would argue that you would see actual racism it's just it's just the opposite of what they think it is like if you're telling people that your value and your ability to get grants for films or for example if your race is playing a role in that if you're implementing equity there's a real it's just illogical and I think you could make a very strong case that you should not be getting tax payer money.

39:04I understand the concerns around freedom of speech and the, the concerns around Israel, Palestine. And if that, I don't know how, what is true. We can, we could come at this as if X, then Y now. So if X is, well, there, there are students that are sharing their opinion on Palestine or whatnot, I'm against that. But if there is what we're describing with this racism towards white males or white people, if that's going towards Jewish students as well, there's a real problem there. So I think you could make a strong case. And how Trump goes about many of these things is going to be like the bull in the China shop.

39:45And I'm not going to agree with everything he does and how he does it. But the underlying philosophy, the underlying problem is there. I've seen it. And it's strange. So I can understand the argument. But does that answer that question?

39:58Coleman Hughes:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's similar to my opinion. I think it's a real problem. And if Trump limited himself just to the reasonable version of a response, then I would be behind it 100%. But he tends to find the reasonable version and then blow past it and do something else. Yeah. So like a good example I use is the, uh, I haven't talked about this publicly, but the alligator Alcatraz is like, to me, I was like, what are you doing? And the fact that you're bragging, it's be like one thing. If you were to, we have to build this facility and it happens to be in a swamp. All right. That's one thing.

40:36It's another thing to brag about how efficient it is to use alligators as prison guards and it's free labor. They're highly effective they just sit there and then if someone does what they're they make great prison guards you know so we're going to incorporate that into our brand what we're going to even call it and then we're going to make t-shirts it's like so yeah to me i was like oh but there's going to be things like that and i think that's kind of what we're describing with the uh the with harvard and the other there's real problems with the ivy league dynamic it's a really interesting conversation to be had around that.

41:13I really fell into a really deep hole that was very interesting though, which is what my thesis was on in the lead up to World War II, the role that Harvard played in World War II where Roosevelt used James Bryan Conant, the president of Harvard, to go meet with Winston Churchill because he couldn't do it because he was up for re-election for his third term third or fourth term which is a crazy thought and so the president of harvard flies to meet with churchill in the middle of the blitz and then they smuggle back all this intelligence build a secret lab and start that led to oppenheimer and we saw that movie we saw how that story went but that was all going way before pearl harbor ever even happened there was this entire secret gear up they knew war was inevitable and you find all of this written and then looking at it through the lens of the student body was really interesting.

42:05But what really interested me was the power concentration of how many senators sons were there. The president of the student body was God's son to Roosevelt. His roommate was John F. Kennedy. His older bro, brother Joe was at college at the same time. He was supposed to be president, dies in the war. JFK later becomes president. It's just this wheel is unseen, but has, uh, it's a strange, it's a strange state of affairs that we are in today. I don't know how to get back from it. I don't know how to save it. As scientific discovery changes the landscape, advances in cancer care may offer new hope

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43:20Coleman Hughes:Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. What role do you think professors are playing in all of these problems? Because I remember, you know, I tried to pick my classes wisely so that I was avoiding most of the classes with indoctrinated professors that were basically woke ideologues. But I did end up taking some of those classes, not only because I was curious, but because, you know, whatever, my friend wanted to take it with me. So I've been in the class with the professor who is literally the caricature of what Fox News believes woke professors are, down to the look and the beliefs and the style of teaching.

44:05Coleman Hughes:I even wrote one of my first articles, I talked about how I was in two different classes reading Foucault. So I think it was probably History of Sexuality or one of Discipline and Punish, whatever, one of Foucault's famous books. and in one class I had a great professor and we were allowed to disagree with Foucault if we thought he was full of shit we could point out his logical flaws you could agree with it if you wanted you could say anything you wanted as long as it was based in the text and in in some kind of good faith engagement professor didn't would would similar to what you did in the JK Rowling video would ask you critical questions about how you're thinking through your opinion and hopefully lead you to a more interesting resolution.

44:53Coleman Hughes:This other class, we read the exact same book, and she was teaching it as a preacher would teach you the Bible, you know, like the most doctrinaire form of religious instruction. Like, this book is true. Everything Foucault says about sexuality being constructed is correct, and if you don't agree, you are part of the problem. These are the kinds of things she would say. And that filters into the consumption of art. So modern art, for example, I was taking that course and her husband was taught by this professor. Her husband has a power position, was like the assistant dean of the program. So if I was going to teach, I had to be on his good side.

45:34She was a cool teacher. She was cool, fun, but she was pushing a doctrine. And this was modern art, yet that's still reflecting Foucault and postmodernism all the way through because it's really an attack on them. There's no standards. Everything's a social construct. The modern art, the banana nailed to the wall, is beautiful. It's just a matter of perspective. There's no such thing as right behavior versus wrong behavior. There are no objective lines in life. And this, we can see how this echoes through all of these subjects. There were some cases where I would have, yeah, it's totally fine if you want to.

46:14It's important for students to talk about postmodernism, Marx, and all of these things, but do it like you were describing in a way where it's, you can challenge things. But when I'm in the class, that professor that shut that conversation down when I asked about the Chinese students was like, how is it working in China? Like, what are you genuinely asking it like that? He was like that caricature. He ran, he, I don't know if he's still doing, probably is. He was running this thing called the Engagement Lab. And this is an example. This is what Emerson's research would be. We were talking about Harvard and that's the justification for the tax money.

46:47This is what Emerson would describe as their lab for research. And it's just researching how people engage with content. there's no re and money is going towards that there's no real there's nothing tangible that's beyond it's just reinforcing these ideologies and that's the kind of so let even if that professor had not shut down that conversation and he would not he would challenge me on certain things and i was always one to like just call out the logic when i see it and i think that's what kind of led to that the students kind of othering me it's not that i wasn't political i was just like the banana on the wall nailed to the wall that's not art like i'm sorry like this is stupid like in more words than that you would actually kind of get into the theory of it but if you were to say that banana is not i don't i think we're going down a weird road here and this is why even if the student the professor allows that conversation to occur all the students in the class are like, oh, this is because it's going against this deep story that they've there.

47:54You think that there is a right way to behave. You think that there are beauty standards. These are oppressive ideas of the, of this social construct of the West, which is just reinforcing. And of course you do. You're a white guy. You're a male too. And you're straight. So it's like so there's no there are good professors there one professor who retired he got fed up with it but he has appeared on my youtube channel has helped but i just got off the off a call yesterday with sam richards and his wife at soc 119 he's the professor i told joe about joe rogan about this i think this is the only guy who's actively teaching that i see doing this online they live stream everything he teaches sociology at penn state and i've made a couple videos on him but like the day after charlie kirk got shot he talked to his students about it in a way that was real and he's really trying and he's pushing them and he's doing it in a an effective way and that was the video that i've never had a video perform like that because it was So it's the conversation that needed to be happening with the students, which are people are, it's like a window into the sausage being made that you can't find anywhere else.

49:16And the whole theme of the call was like, how do we keep this from getting shut down? His wife was like, I don't know how the college is even letting Sam do this for all these years. She's like, I'm amazed that because it's the same philosophy that got me shut down because it's a liability and what the there's potential for bad comments and things like that it's just easier for the college to say it's no we're not going to allow you to live stream this and i think that's why no one else does it but that's honestly if you took what sam is doing and you did that at every college i personally would be like i'm paying 60 grand a year i don't want to it feels like a waste of money for me to be, but a lot of those students need to be challenged on these topics.

50:02And I think, I think a lot of them are taking it because it's just, they view it as an easy grade. But when you watch the videos, he, he's there now and then he really does do something important. So they're out there. That's my point. The professors are out there, but they are far and few between.

50:18Coleman Hughes:Yeah. You know, one thing I've always wondered is there is this constant dismissal of straight white men. And when it comes to the canon, you were mentioning decolonizing the canon. And this is a debate we had every single year at Columbia. We have a sort of, we're sort of famous for having the, what we call the core curriculum, which is one of the school, like the central selling point of the school relative to the competitors like Harvard and Princeton and Yale is that Columbia has had the same core curriculum roughly for, you know, whatever, 200 years. Like we're reading the same people that whoever went to Columbia a hundred years ago read and that puts you in part of a tradition.

51:03Coleman Hughes:And that's kind of a story that the school sells and tells. And that core curriculum is like constantly, constantly under attack every single year for having too many dead white males. It's so dumb. But like one thing that I was... So we've talked about like Foucault and Marx in this conversation, right? Foucault wasn't straight, but they're both dead white males. In Marx's case, he is like on record having called black people the N-word in German, the equivalent. obviously Foucault has a dodgy quasi-pedophilic history in certain ways why is it that those two people have escaped this criticism of being dead white males because they can their defenders claim they're misunderstood and that we are not accurately representing the vast complexity of their ideas and it's a tactic that's often used you over complicate to obfuscate.

52:11You just put so much out there. There's a number of YouTube channels that are defenders of these ideas, and they love to attack Jordan Peterson, and the common attack is always he's not accurately representing these ideas. Personally, my favorite video I've ever made was looking at Joe Rogan talking to a postmodern professor, a professor who specializes in postmodernism so that it removes that tactic from the table because you're hearing the words come directly out of this person's mouth. So I'm not really critiquing Foucault or Marx. It's like, he's literally claiming that morality and ethics are superstition.

52:57Everything ultimately, because knowledge, because we don't have absolute knowledge and knowledge is going to change, we're going to gain new knowledge therefore there's no such really such thing as knowledge and we've seen where this goes that he's literally in the same video he's claiming that yeah male female their social constructs penis is just a word therefore it's you can't make it up and it that's why it does well it did well because of that but that's why it's so that video meant so much to me because it's so important. It really goes to the heart of everything. I've done two on that professor.

53:36One is him debating, I'm forgetting the other professor's name. I'm sure you've seen his work. He's talking to Peterson a number of times. It's just the same tactic. It's the same problem of why it's so difficult to challenge postmodernism because people's eyes glaze over because it can be so difficult to wrestle with because everything's malleable. There's no objective truth. So when you're talking to someone like that, it can go, it feels like it can just go anywhere. It feels like they're, and you're not standing on a foundation. I describe it in the most simple form as postmodernism claims that there is no such thing as objective truth, that objective truth exists.

54:20We're constantly trying to map onto it and reach it. We're trying to understand it. And that's what we describe as knowledge. And yes, that's going to grow. And that's why what you said is so important about the canon. We can trace back the first century, all the way to the first century, how that map of the fabric of reality has expanded and expanded. And then postmodernism comes in and just completely upends that. It claims that there's no, even if we don't, even if we can, And it's true. We cannot articulate. We don't fully understand objective truth. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

54:55Right.

54:56Coleman Hughes:Have you heard of Thomas Nagel's book, The Last Word? No. So yeah, this philosopher Thomas Nagel, who's fantastic, he has a short book called The Last Word. And it is a masterful refutation of postmodernism. I mean, one point he makes is, if you're going to argue there is no objective truth, that you're open to the question, well, is that itself an objective truth? Yeah, it's a paradox. And so he's not the only one to make this point, but it's, postmodernism actually refutes itself. It is an incoherent philosophy. yeah they would counter that by claiming no i'm not claiming an absolute truth claim okay then why should i take it seriously right right right i'm just saying that all of our understanding is flawed in some way and all it's true that language is a social construct literally it's created by human beings their words are tools every italian is different an italian came from somewhere, but they take that to the next level.

56:08It's like, therefore, all words are malleable, but words are so, because words are the tools, that's why they're important, because that is how we map onto reality. We see where this is going today. We've seen the consequence of this. It's the source of endless debate because, well, we can just change what that word means. And that's postmodernism in a nutshell. It's like, it means what we say it means. But what's really getting concerning is when you take it to ethics, morality is superstition. He says that line. You will hear him say that sentence. And that echoes directly to what we're seeing today in the response of Charlie Kerch's death.

56:41It's just a matter of perspective. Yeah, like people celebrating his death. People at Emerson were throwing parties celebrating this. And that's the sentiment on campus. It's not like I'm going out and sherry picking cases. It's like, that's the mainstream majority thought at my college. And I claim like that's objectively, I can say that's objectively wrong behavior, and this is why. Even if we can't quite articulate it, I believe that we can feel it. There's something ingrained within us that echoes, that mirrors that fabric of reality, but that's kind of a spiritual idea, and postmodernism is like, absolutely not having that.

57:19So, I think we're in a real state of affairs today.

57:22Coleman Hughes:I remember one of my favorite posts from Scott Alexander, who's a great writer. He used to go by Slate Star Codex. Now, I think He goes by Astral Star Codex. He has one of the best blogs on the internet, in my opinion. I remember a long time ago, he had this post where he just, he made the very simple observation that when Osama bin Laden was killed, whenever that was in Obama's, at the end of Obama's first term, you know, the thing that liberals and progressives said was essentially, look, no one should celebrate a death. Like, obviously, Osama bin Laden was a terrible guy and a mass murderer.

58:02But we shouldn't be so glib and so...

58:05Coleman Hughes:We should never be celebrating anyone dying, right? Even if it's a bad person. And then, shortly after that, Margaret Thatcher died. And all the same people were, like, dancing around singing ding-dong, the witch is dead, you know? And he made this point because it was such an obvious example of how partisanship blinds you to simple principles. Like, either it's true that we should never celebrate someone getting killed or it isn't. And you should be consistent with that principle. Now, my view on this is like, I guarantee, I condemned Charlie Kirk's death in the strongest possible terms. And I guarantee you, if the left-wing equivalent of Charlie Kirk was assassinated tomorrow, I would say the same exact thing.

58:51Coleman Hughes:I would not mince words about it. because I really do try to, to the best of my ability, not be sucked in by the vacuum of partisanship and actually think first about what my principles are and then try to apply them in a nonpartisan way. Now, I'm sure that I'm not perfect in that, but I make an effort, at least, and I think it's very important to make that effort. Yeah, what's really been disturbing to me beyond obviously celebrating his death is wrong, but it's disturbing to me the people that don't celebrate it and they're like, no, political violence is bad, of course. This is really the dominant sentiment because most people aren't stupid enough to openly admit that they would celebrate it, but many people will say it was bad that it happened.

59:42What's your main concern? Well, my main concern is that someone will come along and pick up his mantle and carry on his ideas. What's really bothering me are people that are, i think you could make a logical case they're blatantly lying about many things that he has said and most people because they're viewing it through the partisan lens they don't take the time to really delve into the logic of what he's saying around black pilots like that's blatantly racist they claim and it's just like it's really frustrating because it's just it really bothers me when people are like misrepresenting what is and it goes back to the idea of it's all just a matter of perspective.

1:00:18So I've been trying to kind of like shine a light on that. But like my immediate response when it happened, my brother called me and he was like, yeah, this isn't about, this is the response of most people. I think it was like, this is not left versus right. This is like good versus evil. But then I'm like, wait a minute. That's the exact sentiment that caused someone to shoot him. They thought they were genuinely fighting evil. We have to be very careful about that, but that doesn't mean evil doesn't exist. Like a really good question for a postmodernist is, is evil a social construct? And see how they respond to it.

1:00:52Because I think the capacity lives within all of us. It's ingrained within that fabric of reality.

1:00:57Coleman Hughes:No, but I think Steven Pinker has made a similar point that let's imagine that you have a politics of anti-racism, very progressive, very left-wing. Core to your politics are going to be certain objective truth claims, like slavery was a real thing and slavery was bad and the slaves weren't happy. That's just one example, right? If those are your politics, you're not going to want slavery is bad to just be an opinion. It has to be a fact. It has to be a fact that you can demonstrate, right? And so it's even refutes the political instincts that people on the left have if they say there are no objective truths, because there's got to be objective truths, even for your own politics to be persuasive to anybody.

1:01:49Coleman Hughes:You know, the Holocaust really happened. That's not an opinion. That's an objective truth that can be demonstrated. And so all of these political projects rest on top of claims about objective truth that are like the engines of the emotionality of that project. And so you can't actually, even just in their own self-interest, they should not want to get rid of objective truth. I mean, I just, let me tell you one other story that I was, it just came back to me when you were talking earlier. I remember in college being in this class called Philosophy of Feminism. And this is the class where we were reading Foucault and it was the professor that was teaching it as gospel.

1:02:35Coleman Hughes:And obviously, this professor believed that gender is a social construct. We were reading Judith Butler, I think Thomas LaCour, all these people. And keep in mind, like, I am absolutely terrified to speak my mind in this class. Like, fucking mortified. Nobody ever challenges the professor in this class. Nobody challenges the texts we're reading. Nobody says, I disagree, because it is literally just like everyone is just silently nodding along and suppressing whatever critical thoughts that they had because this professor is just so intimidating, right? so for some reason I got the nerve to like make a comment at one point because I just I don't know I guess I had enough of sitting through all of this without ever being able to have an interesting discussion but I was very clever so I tried to figure out like how could I possibly make a point about gender being real that a woman like her might possibly accept.

1:03:48Coleman Hughes:So instead of citing all the research on biological gender differences in humans, instead of saying that all of our closest animal cousins, including chimpanzees, have obvious behavioral differences between the genders, that can't be a social construct because they're chimps. They don't have culture, really. They only have their hard wiring. All that stuff I knew she would dismiss as bullshit. And sexist bullshit meant to uphold the blah, blah, blah. So my idea was, okay, what if I just cite the fact that when transgender people begin hormonal interventions, like when a female, a natal female, begins taking testosterone, own.

1:04:38Coleman Hughes:Their lived experience is often that their psychology and their emotions change. They find themselves getting angry a little bit more quickly, for instance. They find themselves being a little bit more irritable. They find themselves being a little bit more aggressive, being a little bit more assertive, right? And so my idea was what if, like, if trans people are reporting as their lived experience, that when they start taking testosterone, it starts affecting their emotions and their personality, why would it then not be true that the half of the human race that naturally has those hormones more won't exhibit similar differences from the other half, right?

1:05:27Coleman Hughes:And I thought this was very clever because the argument is resting on the lived and reported experiences of transgender people, which in her worldview, she has to take seriously. Right? What'd she say? She had some kind of hand-waving response where she was like, and I framed it, I was careful to frame it as, what would Foucault say to someone who said this? Because, you know, like, this is the layer of defenses I had to put on my argumentative fort in order to, like, get it through. and she goes, well, you know, Foucault kind of has a way of dealing with that. But rest assured that he thought of that and he has a good response.

1:06:11Coleman Hughes:Anyway, moving on. Like she had no answer. Then Foucault has no answer, obviously. But I tell that story only to say that like, you know, I'm like, as far as human beings go, I'm a little bit more of like a speak my mind person, obviously that's like why i'm in this profession but even even me i was so afraid to simply raise an objection that i had to like invent like the most circuitous yeah you know possible argument that could fit into this tiny opening in her worldview and and i was even terrified to do it And like, this is the, this is the culture of elite college campuses. Yeah. It's people, it's just listening to that.

1:07:03It's part of, I just wish I could sit down with that person. Now when you're a student in the moment, it's, you're not making content. There's no camera. I wish I could sit down with that person on camera. If people don't, they're going to listen to that. I think it's, they don't understand that it's real and how, how many people there are that there's no way to the fact that you're right they they don't respond they just hand wave it away someone asked me just the other day why is it that people constantly just shut down the conversation with various forms and that's really why because it's not built i think that's why it's not built on logic that's all they can do is do some form of hand waving say well she thought about it or he thought about it for coat thought about it's like

1:07:48Coleman Hughes:yeah yeah um so before i let let you go i want i want to um get your thoughts on sort of like how how we fix this because it's a it's a big problem trump has his approach to fixing it which we both agree is like a bull in a china shop and in any event trump will only be around for three more years and if history is any guide he'll probably be replaced by a democrat because americans we always vote for the opposite of whatever we just had. So there's like kind of a debate between people in my world who all agree about the problem. That debate is, do we try to fix the institutions that we have or do we just say, screw it, they're gone.

1:08:41Coleman Hughes:That ship has sailed. We have to create new ones. And to be clear, you can do both at the same time. But I have taught at University of Austin in Texas, the new university started by Joe Lonsdale, Barry Weiss, among other Neil Ferguson. And what they're trying to do there very successfully, in my view, is build a new kind of college that basically puts the healthy software into its DNA right from the start. So I taught a course there called The Legacy of Slavery for three months. And the course was literally, we're going to read half what liberals have to say about the legacy of slavery and half what conservatives have to say about the legacy of slavery.

1:09:27Coleman Hughes:And I'm going to try to pick the highest quality on both ends. And we're going to talk about it. And you're allowed to agree with anyone. You're allowed to disagree. and I'm, you know, I have my own opinions, but mostly I'm going to try to be leading you by the hand into the best version of your own opinion, whatever that is. And so it's an example of like starting a new institution. There's always a worry, a concern with that, that like, you know, it's hard to start stuff from scratch and it can feel fake until it feels real. Whereas these institutions that have been around for 300 years have, they just have a certain level of credibility in the bank, no matter how much they mess that up.

1:10:13Coleman Hughes:So that's all to say, you know, what do you think people who care about this issue should do, work within the system or try to create new alternatives? Yeah, so that's the solution for the dynamics in the classroom is what you just described. And that's what people like Sam Richards are doing. And honestly, I don't think it's that difficult to return to that. But there's other problems at play. I think it's a real problem that student loans are issued at the rate that they're issued. There's clear incentive structure. There's nothing else that you can apply for in that way. And you're just given the money like that.

1:10:48And it creates this vicious cycle that yes, these places are businesses. Then we bring in the the tax issue that we discussed earlier the people i don't think many people realize just how old colleges in america are though and i don't want to lose that because it's similar to i don't want for the same reason i don't want to throw out the canon or decolonize or decolonize the canon i mean harvard is older than america the first universities were established in the in year 1000 a.d and it's oxford cambridge a little bit after that but it's i so there's a these component these financial components that we've that need to be fixed there's that there's the dynamics in the classroom we can fix that it's absolutely possible the third component is how technology and information is changing all of this things like youtube and we don't even really understand the impact of these technologies and how like it's this exponential growth that's i mean it's just going to shoot up and you could say maybe ai is the end point we don't even know what's going to lay beyond that but the ability for human minds to propagate all of that information that was established through that university system.

1:12:17It used to be you had to go to university to go get access to the libraries, to get access to the information. Now, all this information is flowing in a way that it's never been flowing before. We don't know what the psychological impacts of that are. So it's this perfect storm. My personal advice to anyone listening is that I think this is what Jordan Peterson tapped into and why he caught lightning in a bottle is that he was trying to remind people of this truth that we all already know, that nothing will improve your life more than living in accordance with the fabric of reality. That thing that we've been talking about, that postmodernism is completely contradictory to.

1:12:58Imagine two boats. One boat is sailing in accordance with the tides, the winds, the fabric of what is. And then you have a boat that's like, there's no such thing as currents and wind and work we can strap an outboard motor on this thing and just force our way through on this it's a which boat do you think is going to get where it needs to go more efficiently and faster so be that boat right and that is what the universities need to return to it needs to the entire canon it seems that's what it originally was in the pursuit of it was all in the pursuit of how to live in accordance with what actually is and how do we increase our map of knowledge, our map onto what actually is.

1:13:43And it's just absolutely contradictory to this incredibly persuasive narrative that is far more saturated than most people realize, unless you have seen it, which is really the big takeaway from our entire conversation, I think. All right.

1:14:01Coleman Hughes:Thank you, Warren Smith. Can you tell people where they can follow your work? Yeah, it's mostly just on YouTube. Warren Smith, Secret Scholars Society, but I'm also on Exit, WTSmith17. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Warren. Thanks for taking the time. This was cool. Hey, guys. Finding the perfect gift for the food lover in your life is easy. Thanks to Gold Belly. Gold Belly ships America's most iconic foods straight from world-famous restaurants right to your door. So if you want to treat someone, to Joe's Stone Crab from Miami, Franklin Barbecue from Texas, or desserts from famous foodies like Ina Garten or Martha Stewart, Gold Belly has you covered.

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