In short
A BBC Crossing Continents episode about the Greek criminal trial of volunteer civilian search-and-rescue workers from Lesbos, accused of belonging to a criminal organisation, money laundering, and facilitating illegal entry—despite claiming they were saving drowning migrants.
Guests/backgrounds
Sean Binder, German-born, raised in Ireland; trained rescue scuba diver; volunteered with ERCI on Lesbos (2017). Sara Mardini is a co-defendant (Syrian-born refugee who later starred in The Swimmers). Peter Wittenberg, retired Dutch pension fund manager and former lifeboat skipper. Witnesses include UNHCR’s Erasmia Rumana and Lesbos Coast Guard inspector Lt. Stavros Gargarellis; police commander Michalis Doulaveris testified.
Key claims
Prosecution argued rescuers cooperated with smugglers; defense said they guided people to safe land without crossing borders or hiding them, and that “pull factor” claims lack evidence.
Notable examples
WhatsApp messages about boats off Molivos; UNHCR context of 2015 arrivals (up to 3,000/day); MSF’s shift to medical help only after a 2021 law restricting NGO rescues.
Verdict
All defendants found not guilty; court said internet communication groups weren’t criminal organisations and waiting to rescue wasn’t facilitation.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOSetting the Scene: Lesbos
0:30 to 1:11
Tim Hewell introduces the location and circumstances of the rescuer volunteers.
“He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history.”
Sean Binder's Journey
1:11 to 3:40
Sean Binder shares his background and experiences during the migration crisis.
“I'm standing on a pebbly Greek beach with a young man called Sean.”
The Arrest and Charges
3:40 to 4:50
Sean discusses his arrest and the charges he faces as a volunteer rescuer.
“to be tried finally on the criminal organisation charge and for alleged money laundering and facilitating the illegal entry of foreigners into Greece.”
The Trial Begins
4:50 to 6:12
Details of the ongoing trial against Sean Binder and fellow rescuers are presented.
“Recordings not allowed in the courtroom, but let me recreate the scene.”
Witness Testimonies: UNHCR's Perspective
6:12 to 7:20
A witness from the UN discusses the refugee crisis context in Lesbos.
“Many arrived at Scala Sycamineas, a tiny fishing village I visited before the trial.”
Local Perspectives on the Crisis
7:20 to 8:34
Local fisherman shares experiences during the height of the refugee crisis.
“And it is specifically because of their solidarity that I wanted to join a Greek organisation.”
Rescuer Strategies and Cooperation
8:34 to 11:23
Discussion on the strategies used by rescuers and their cooperation with authorities.
“I'll get tears in my eyes if I think about it.”
Day Two of the Trial: Prosecution Witness
11:23 to 14:00
Details from day two of the trial, including testimonies from police witnesses.
“Just the answer the defence needed, and from a prosecution witness.”
The Defense Strategy and Prosecution's Evidence
14:00 to 16:02
Uncover the defense's arguments and the prosecution's weak evidence in the trial.
“And the answer is that you didn't find the source of the information.”
Reflections on the Trial and Rescue Work
16:56 to 20:02
Examine the implications of the trial delay on humanitarian work.
“The trial was being adjourned for another month.”
Show all 15 chapters
Impact of New Laws on Humanitarian Aid
20:02 to 22:36
Discuss the restrictions faced by NGOs in providing search and rescue operations.
“the possibility that we are guilty of these offences, means that others are scared away from doing the work that we were doing.”
Changing Narratives about Refugees
22:36 to 24:39
Understand the shift in local attitudes towards refugees and their support.
“despite considerable evidence from human rights organisations and investigative journalists.”
Verdict and Its Implications for Humanitarian Efforts
24:39 to 27:36
Analyze the court's verdict and its broader implications for rescue operations.
“I'm with Panaiotis Christophas, mayor of the island's main town, Mitterlini.”
Final Thoughts from the Former Migration Minister
27:36 to 28:00
Hear the former minister's stance on NGOs and their collaboration with authorities.
“Because in practice, the police will still arrest people.”
Reflections on Rescue Operations in Greece
28:00 to 29:56
Learn about the current state of rescue operations for refugees in Greece and the responsibilities of NGOs and authorities.
“But there are poppers going off and there is champagne flowing and I do feel I might go for that swim.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Sara Mardini:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30Sean Binder:at Whole Foods Market. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
1:07Sara Mardini:Thanks for downloading this Crossing Continents podcast. I'm Tim Hewell with Rescuers on Trial. I'm standing on a pebbly Greek beach with a young man called Sean.
1:19Sean Binder:So this point here we're looking at here is the Strait of Mittellini. I mean, we used to park our car right here and we would stand here, two people like you and I are now from midnight to about 7am. Looking out over there, which is mainland Turkey, it would be dark, you would see lights twinkling in the distance, and you just stand here listening to the waves and trying to hear small boat engine sounds or maybe even some screaming, because that is the only way that you might know there's a boat in distress somewhere in these miles of water. I'm Sean Binder. I am German by birth, but I grew up in Ireland on the southwest coast in County Kerry.
2:02Sean Binder:I grew up right by the ocean and so spent a lot of time surfing. And then I learned to become a rescue scuba diver. And I just love the ocean. During the so-called migration crisis, I decided to go and volunteer in civilian search and rescue because I didn't want people to drown. The organisation I volunteered with claims to have saved 55 ,000 lives.
2:32Sara Mardini:It was 2017. On the Greek island of Lesbos, thousands, mainly Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians, were braving this strait to seek asylum in Europe.
2:42Sean Binder:If you identify a boat in distress, we'd call the team and they would all hurtle down here in vans. We had a medical team and we'd help disembark people, identify their needs. But in February of 2018, I was standing right here when the police arrived. They took us in for questioning and in August, we were told that we were being charged with being part of a criminal organisation.
3:09Sara Mardini:There were other charges too against Sean and 23 other volunteer rescuers. Some were eventually dropped in what's been a tortuous legal process. You were 24 when you were arrested, and now you're...?
3:22Sean Binder:Now I'm the ripe old age of 31, having spent the past seven years in limbo. I'm trained as a lawyer, I'm a pupil barrister, I am not allowed to represent my clients until I'm eventually acquitted.
3:39Sara Mardini:But last month, Sean and his co-defendants were back on Lesbos to be tried finally on the criminal organisation charge and for alleged money laundering and facilitating the illegal entry of foreigners into Greece.
3:58Sara Mardini:Silence, please. All witnesses, leave the room till you're called.
4:04Sean Binder:If I'm found guilty, it'll be a sentence of 20 years. I have made my preparations, trying to get some savings together so that I can give my mother some money to rent a flat if she wants to stay near the prison.
4:17Sara Mardini:This is Crossing Continents with me, Tim Hewell, telling the story of a case that's raised big questions for refugee policy everywhere. Can humanitarian help to migrants be a crime? The trial's just finished. I won't give away the verdict till the end if you don't know. Here's what Sean told me just before it started.
4:38Sean Binder:This is a precedent-setting case. If I am guilty of smuggling because I helped someone not drown, then the next person who saved someone from drowning will be guilty of smuggling too.
4:50Sara Mardini:Recordings not allowed in the courtroom, but let me recreate the scene. There are high, echoey ceilings, whitewashed walls. At one end are three judges on a high bench, behind a glass screen. Above, Christ stares out from an icon. The defendants are seated below. Sean is in a three-piece suit. The others are more casually dressed. Among them are a retired Dutch pension fund manager and a former Greek sea captain. Best known is Sara Mardini, who herself arrived as a migrant from Syria and later starred with her sister Yusra in the film The Swimmers. The back of the room is packed with friends, relatives, journalists and campaigners.
5:34Sara Mardini:The extracts of the proceedings that follow are translations of notes, written down as accurately as possible, voiced by actors. First witness is Erasmia Rumana of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees.
5:49Sean Binder:We have to understand the context back then. In 2015, the refugee crisis, 60 % of those arriving in Europe came to this island, Lesbos, more than 3 ,000 people a day. The needs were so huge, they couldn't be met by the Greek authorities. If it hadn't been for other organisations and for volunteers, those needs wouldn't have been met.
6:17Sara Mardini:Many arrived at Scala Sycamineas, a tiny fishing village I visited before the trial. We're talking about 100, 110 boats per day. And with a local fisherman, Thanasis Marmarinos.
6:32Sean Binder:Day!
6:33Sara Mardini:Like the whole shore was covered by black and orange. You couldn't even see the rocks. The black and the orange of the dinghies.
6:42Sean Binder:You could look into the sea and watch like a line of boats arriving. From May to November 2015, we spent most of the time rescuing people instead of working. But what else could we do?
7:00Sara Mardini:By the time Sean arrived in 2017, migrant numbers were much lower. That's mainly because of a deal between the EU and Turkey, allowing many to be returned there. But local people were still feeding and clothing new arrivals.
7:14Sean Binder:Old Greek grandmothers would, you know, race down from their little tavernas with baskets of food for people who'd arrived on their beaches. And it is specifically because of their solidarity that I wanted to join a Greek organisation.
7:32Sara Mardini:He joined an NGO called ERCI, Emergency Response Centre International. So did Peter Wittenberg, the former Dutch pension fund manager, now aged 77. I was a skipper at a small lifeboat. So at 11 o 'clock in the night, we would go out about two or three miles out of the shore and then wait. Just wait. Listen for refugee boats. Those boats had no navigation lights. They were not easy to spot. It's gray on gray or black on black. We could smell them. You could smell them? Yes, because there was spilling a lot of fuel. That came into the boat. There was also salty water into the boat. and they pissed.
8:26Sara Mardini:They were so, so afraid and so terrible. And that is a mixture, it's a toxic mixture. And you can smell it. It burns on your skin. The mixture of fuel and urine. Urine, fuel and salty water. What does that smell like?
8:48Sara Mardini:I can't tell you. Very sharp, very acrid. Yes, it's... I'll get tears in my eyes if I think about it.
9:03Between rescuing and facilitating, is there a fine line?
9:11Sara Mardini:It's a very clear distinction. It's not facilitating. We never knew when people would arrive.
9:18Sean Binder:We never, ever took people from one country over the border into another country. We never took people on board of the lifeboat. What we did is guide them to a safe place to land not on the rocks.
9:37Sara Mardini:And only, the defendants say, with the knowledge of the authorities. This, above all, is what the case will turn on.
9:44Sean Binder:The offences occur when you pull someone across the border and then you hide them from the authorities. And so our starting point is the evidence of the Coast Guard who have said ERCI, the organisation, communicated and cooperated with us.
10:03Sara Mardini:But will they say that in court? Next witness, Lieutenant Stavros Gargarellis, Coast Guard inspector. We had a very frequent collaboration with ERCI. Not daily, but frequent. Collaboration? What does that mean? Zacharias Kassess, for the defence, is brandishing a phone. Here's a screenshot. It's a WhatsApp message from defendant Nassos Karakitsos.
10:28Sean Binder:This was sent to you on July 10th, 2017. Hello, we've heard there's a boat off Molivos, broken engine, taking on water. It gives the coordinates. You reply, good morning, Nassos. Thanks for telling me. So you didn't say, it's in Turkish waters, why are you telling me? Or, how do you know? No, I didn't. Because you weren't interested. And it was the same pattern for three years. You never asked where he got the information. He'd already said it was from relatives of people on board. I trusted him. Then, after three years, the police arrive and say it was all illegal. Did you then ask Nassos to reveal his sources?
11:18Sean Binder:No. My bosses knew what was happening, so we continued the cooperation. Because your priority was saving lives. Exactly.
11:28Sara Mardini:Just the answer the defence needed, and from a prosecution witness.
11:36Sara Mardini:day one's over and Sean's relieved the prosecution cases I mean I think not falling apart but now
11:43Sean Binder:having heard this you know the ostensibly strongest witnesses against us what they've basically said is either I don't know what the organization did or if I do know it cooperated with us.
11:57Sara Mardini:But crucially, we haven't heard yet from the police. Back in 2017, Sean says, they knew exactly what he was doing.
12:06Sean Binder:Police had arrived almost every other night. In fact, we would often stood shoulder to shoulder talking about the weather, how things were going.
12:15Sara Mardini:And after Sean's arrest in early 2018, he was soon released and went back to rescuing people till he was arrested again later that year.
Read the full transcript
12:24Sean Binder:I was held in pre-trial prison for about three months. It was awful. I was handcuffed while I was being transported to the formal prison to a man who had murdered two people, was convicted of it, and being treated in exactly the same way felt deeply demoralising.
12:44Sara Mardini:It's day two of the trial, and the first witness will be the man who put Sean in jail, Michalis Doulaveris, commander of the Lesbos Security Police. Before we go in, defence lawyer Kassès, you'll hear his real voice now, is worried.
13:00Sean Binder:If he states that there were information about votes and those information were known to the defendants and they didn't reveal it to the police, we will have a problem.
13:13Sara Mardini:The police chief's tall and lean, with a buzz cut in jeans and a black leather jacket. He doesn't look like a man to tangle with. He describes what he found on Sean's and Sara Mardini's phones.
13:26Sean Binder:They were sending information about migrants from Turkey. The times, locations and the state of the boats. They had sources that the Coast Guard and we and the police had no access to. Were they guiding the migrants?
13:41Sara Mardini:That was the judge.
13:42Sean Binder:Of course. They wanted them to reach land. You said sources. As police, did you find where the information about boats came from?
13:51Sara Mardini:That was Zacharias Cassess for the defence.
13:54Sean Binder:No, we searched but didn't find out. The defendants should tell us. Yeah, please understand. They don't have to prove anything. You have a case to prove. And the answer is that you didn't find the source of the information. But the defendants have stated many times that their sources were relatives who had already arrived in Greece and emergency hotlines such as Alarm Phone.
14:21Sara Mardini:The commander's once swaggering shoulders are beginning to sag and the defence is turning up the volume.
14:28Sean Binder:Did you know about the 11 boats mentioned in the indictment? The Coast Guard knew.
14:34Sara Mardini:Frontex knew. That's the European Union Border Agency.
14:38Sean Binder:They knew, but I didn't. Just say yes or no. No, I didn't know. You didn't know.
14:47Sara Mardini:An ironic smile from the defence. But what's the evidence that the defendants were in a criminal organisation? The commanders already said...
14:56Sean Binder:We found they were using encrypted communication.
15:00Sara Mardini:But what did he mean? Well, they were in a WhatsApp group.
15:05Sean Binder:WhatsApp says the messages are encrypted. The company itself says so. We aren't inventing anything. Are you in any WhatsApp groups? Of course. For work, in my family. So what's weird about a group of 445 people using the same tool?
15:24Sara Mardini:By the end of his evidence, the command is clutching a rail for support.
15:28Sean Binder:But leaves us in, I think, a very strong position.
15:32Sara Mardini:The prosecution's concluded its case. So if it was so weak, why did they pursue it for seven years? Defence lawyer Kess says. If you ask me why the police is insisting, this is their perception about what is humanitarian aid and if the non-governmental organizations are a pull factor to migration, there is no evidence. There is nothing apart from narratives.
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16:37Sean Binder:He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to£100 ,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
17:00Sara Mardini:The trial was being adjourned for another month. So what about those wider narratives? Sean realised their significance soon after he was arrested. One of the first thoughts I had is, I must be guilty of something.
17:16Sean Binder:Because that was the only way that I could make sense of the fact that I was sitting in prison alongside murderers. And so I spent a lot of my three and a half months poring over books and policy papers and legal documents. Then I came across a document, and it refers to civilian search and rescue organisations being, quote, a pull factor. In a nutshell, the safer the water, the more smuggling happening through it. And suddenly it made sense why I was in prison.
17:51Sara Mardini:On Lesbos, I too wondered whether rescuers sometimes play into the smuggler's hands. Here's what Thanasis the fisherman told me about the traffickers' dinghies.
18:01Sean Binder:The amount of gasoline that they had, it was only to reach the Greek territorial waters. It was not enough to reach the shore.
18:14Sara Mardini:So I asked Peter Wittenberg, the Dutch defendant, you're kind of helping them to come into shore. Yes, I admit that. We helped them in a safe way. I mean, did that depend on whether they were drowning or not drowning? I mean, were you only helping people who were visibly in distress, or were you just helping anyone that you saw who was out at sea? If you see the boats they arrived with, then you should immediately come to the conclusion that when they left the Turkish coast,
18:49Sean Binder:they were already in distress because the dinghies were flabby. The engines they had were too small for too many people on board. They couldn't maneuver. There was no skipper on board.
19:04Sara Mardini:So they were in distress by nature. So you're really saying that anyone who was crossing those straits in that kind of boat automatically deserved help? Automatically, yes. There's no doubt. But Sean's reading convinced him there's no proof that people cross because they expect to be helped. One long-term academic study of migration from Libya to Italy found no relationship between the presence of NGOs at sea and the number of asylum seekers setting out across the water.
19:37Sean Binder:The pull factor is nothing more than a rhetorical device. It is not supported by any evidence.
19:44Sara Mardini:He believes, though, that because the trial was delayed so long, the Greek state has achieved its aim of curbing rescue work, regardless of the eventual verdict.
19:54Sean Binder:We, the 24 defendants, who have been pushing for trial year after year, we suspect the reason that it has not been resolved is because the shadow of uncertainty, the possibility that we are guilty of these offences, means that others are scared away from doing the work that we were doing.
20:12Sara Mardini:Others, such as the international medical NGO Médecins Sans Frontières. Yanis Anagnostou is its deputy project coordinator on Lesbos.
20:21Sean Binder:Back in 2015, 2016, it was much easier. It was more space for humanitarian action. We were in the water having big dinghies where we were supporting arrivals in the water. It's not something we do right now. We don't do any search and rescue operations.
20:35Sara Mardini:A 2021 Greek law banned rescue operations by non-governmental organisations without explicit Coast Guard permission. But the Lesbos trial has made aid workers extra careful to avoid any suspicion of human smuggling. Médecins Sans Frontières now offers medical and mental health care, food and clothes, when arrivals have already contacted them via approved helplines, which also share information with the Greek authorities, and when they're already well away from the shore, as Yanis' boss, Jovanna Asenievich, explains.
21:08Sean Binder:Normally we operate further from the beach
21:11Sara Mardini:because also people move from the beach. So 500 metres approximately from the beach is the closest point where we go.
21:20Sean Binder:We respect the law and we try to offer our humanitarian medical services respecting and following the law exactly because we know there's so many aid workers being criminalised
21:30Sara Mardini:for offering humanitarian service. So as humanitarian workers, which way this trial goes? is will this really change things one way or the other?
21:40Sean Binder:Whether it goes left or right, it's really going to have a significant impact on how we work.
21:46Sara Mardini:Some of their patients have survived shipwrecks in which dozens perished off Lesbos last year. Others say they were victims of attempted pushbacks, a practice that's illegal under international law.
21:58Sean Binder:Our patients tell us horrible experiences of being hit by the Greek and the Turkish ghost guard. While they're on a boat. While they're in the sea, hit with like long sticks, pointy sticks that actually they burst their dinghies and then they're given life rafts or they do very, very dangerous maneuvers around the boat. So people lose control of the dinghies. They tumble down. Horrible, horrible experiences.
22:22Sara Mardini:Also, people are so afraid and terrified of pushbacks that when they come to land, they often come late, late at night and they climb steep up the hills as furthest away from the sea as possible. Greece has consistently denied any pushbacks, despite considerable evidence from human rights organisations and investigative journalists. It says its coast guard rescued a quarter of a million people from the sea between 2015 and 2024. But Migration Minister Thanos Pleveris, who describes himself as a hardliner, is toughening policies towards asylum seekers, as he told the BBC last year.
23:02Sean Binder:I want to be completely honest. We try to have a balance of respect for their rights, but also respect for the rights of the Greek people.
23:10Sara Mardini:It is clear that a country cannot accept such pressure from migration and not react. On Lesbos, the government's hoping to open a large new closed-access reception centre for migrants in a remote forest, a plan opposed by many locals. 2015, when efforts to help migrants were so celebrated that two islanders were nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, feels like a very long time ago. Efi Latsudi has worked with refugees for 20 years.
23:41Sean Binder:Back then, all the celebrities were coming to the island. The Pope came, all the prime ministers, politicians. But after that, nothing happened. Everything was reversed after some years. And the government, especially after 2019, they talk about catastrophe of the island, of a very bad time. The main narrative was like, oh, the refugees destroyed the island. So talking to the people, to the local people that supported the refugees back in 2015, we realized that they felt very proud, but then they stopped talking about this because they felt they didn't do enough. If you don't get the feedback that what you did was important, you stay with your pain and your frustration.
24:29Sean Binder:And many people after that, they stopped getting involved because they were overwhelmed and they didn't know what to do with this experience. I think now it's OK.
24:40Sara Mardini:It's a memory. A good memory or a bad memory? A difficult memory. I'm with Panaiotis Christophas, mayor of the island's main town, Mitterlini.
24:51Sean Binder:It has a lot of good memories that our citizens helped all these people. But after many years, a lot of locals get tired about the situation because this city has about 30 ,000 people. There were 20 ,000 asylum seekers. It's too much. It was in Moria.
25:11Sara Mardini:The refugee camp a few miles away that's now closed.
25:13Sean Binder:But they came here to walk, to live, to buy things. The proportion was too high. The hospital has doctors for 30 ,000 people. The whole system was working in a red level, in a high level. Now there are about 1 ,200 people, asylum seekers, everything's okay. The tourism sector pricing. So we are now good, in a good situation.
25:45Sara Mardini:Silence again. It's now mid-January and suddenly, after all these years, they want to finish the trial in a day. A few defence statements and the prosecutions summing up. It was not proven that the defendants communicated with migrants to receive information about migration flows. The information did not reach the NGO earlier than it reached the Greek authorities. What? Defendants, journalists stare at one another in disbelief. This is the prosecutor who brought the case, remember. But he has no case left.
26:20Sean Binder:...donations and any illegal activity. I propose that the defendants be declared not guilty.
26:31Sara Mardini:One more hour to wait in the now buzzing corridor. What will the judge say? The court declares the defendants not guilty on all charges. And not just on the details, but it seems on some broader principles too.
26:47Sean Binder:A communication group on the internet cannot be regarded as a criminal organisation. Waiting in order to rescue a human life cannot be considered facilitation.
27:03Sara Mardini:outside a triumphant group photo on the steps amazing job guys now we go swimming that's sara mardini the swimmer and with her in the melee of journalists and supporters is sean
27:18Sean Binder:sean what's your main feeling i would say it's a relief anger cocktail i am obviously very relieved that I'm not going back to prison, but I'm also very angry that it's taken this long to get here, Tim. I wonder if this just falls away as like a win for us, but no real structural change for a system that is clearly failing its human rights obligations. Because in practice, the police will still arrest people. They'll still make life difficult for organizations that are doing nothing more than putting into practice what they ought to be doing.
27:49Sara Mardini:And what does it mean for you? You can now be a qualified barrister.
27:52Sean Binder:I can hopefully go back to practice. I can, you know, maybe one day start a family. I can live a life that I hope I can. But there are poppers going off and there is champagne flowing and I do feel I might go for that swim.
28:15Sara Mardini:It's dark already and at the bottom of the hill, the sea is as black as it was all those years ago when Sean and the others watched for dinghies. No twinkling lights out there tonight, and it's chilly, but they're going in anyway.
28:32Sara Mardini:Later, I message Greece's migration ministry. Does the verdict free up NGOs to be more proactive again in rescuing refugees? No comment, they say. This is a court decision. I call the former migration minister, an MP for the governing conservative New Democracy Party, Notis Mitterakis. His answer's clear.
28:52Sean Binder:Non-governmental organizations are cooperating with the Greek authorities and they are providing humanitarian support to people that have arrived and are considered asylum seekers. Other than that, the policing of the border is the responsibility of the sovereign authorities.
29:11Sara Mardini:It's not the responsibility of any person, NGO or any other organization. But, you know, they've said to me, several of them have said to me, rescuing people is not an issue of protecting borders.
29:24Sean Binder:And rescuing people in the city is the responsibility of the ambulance. You don't run your own private ambulance trying to find clients at the street. Protecting people at sea is a job of the Coast Guard. Imagine having right-wing and left-wing groups at sea. Some are trying to push migrants back and some are trying to bring them in. This is not a country. This is chaos.
29:47Sara Mardini:In Greece, then, nothing changes. But at least the rescuers who've waited all these years can enjoy a short, wet, cold moment of victory.
30:01Sean Binder:You swim, you win!
30:06Sara Mardini:Thanks for listening. Crossing Continents was presented and produced by me, Tim Hewell, with sound mixing by James Beard. Translation and field production was by Ibai Arbide, Anthe Piazzanu and Sofia Kufapuru. The actors were Jason Barnett and Sam Swan. Katie Morrison is the production coordinator and the editor, Penny Murphy.
30:30Sean Binder:I'm Paul Kenyon and for Radio 4 and the History Podcast, this is Two Nottingham Lads. When the invasion happened, it was completely hell on earth with the sounds. The sad thing about war is people lose their empathy and their humanity. I want to know how two men from Nottingham ended up on opposite sides in the war in Ukraine and what became of them after a chilling encounter in a prison in Donetsk. Out of all the places in the world where I meet someone from Nottingham, it's in captivity on two sides of the conflict. It's a story about how and why you pick a side in a war that's not your own.
31:10Sean Binder:You can listen to two Nottingham lads first on BBC Sounds.
31:20Sean Binder:He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right, Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
From the publisher
In a case with profound implications for European migration policy, 24 former volunteer aid workers have been on trial on the Greek island of Lesbos. Seven years ago, they were arrested after rescuing thousands of migrants from the sea. Now, after many delays, the case involving charges of facilitating illegal entry of foreigners, membership of a criminal organisation and money laundering has gone ahead. Among the defendants facing a possible 20 years in jail have been the Syrian refugee and former competitive swimmer Sara Mardini - and Irish human rights activist and lawyer Sean Binder. They've denied the charges - and said the prosecution was an attempt by the Greek authorities to criminalise help to asylum seekers.
Tim Whewell reports on the trial, its outcome - and the consequences for Lesbos. In in 2015, when about 600,000 migrants arrived on the island after crossing the narrow strait from Turkey. In 2015, local people were proud of their efforts to rescue and support refugees. But later, attitudes changed. And NGOs stopped their rescue work - for fear more aid workers might be prosecuted. Now, far fewer migrants attempt the crossing to Greece. But those who do sometimes die in shipwrecks. And there are allegations, denied by Greece, that its police are illegally pushing asylum seekers back - putting them back on boats and abandoning them at sea.
What will the verdicts in this trial mean for Greece, for other European states that have been tightening their immigration policies - and for the defendants whose lives have been on hold for the last seven years?
Producer/presenter: Tim Whewell. Sound mix: James Beard. Translation/field production: Hibai Arbide Aza, Sophia Koufopoulou, Anthi Pazianou Actors: Jason Barnett & Sam Swann Production coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Penny Murphy