Waiting for my Dad - Ukraine's children of the missing

5 Aug 2025 · 31 min · 9 chapters

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In short

Episode topic: A BBC look inside “Gen Ukrainian” charity’s two-week camp for children of Ukraine’s missing—kids whose parent disappeared in the war—using sport, art therapy, and counseling to treat “ambiguous loss” (no confirmed alive/dead status).

Guest backgrounds

Vanwii Matyresyan, chief psychologist at Gen Ukrainian; Oksana Lebedeva, charity founder; children interviewed with psychologists present (e.g., Nastya, 16, Kharkiv; Dima, 15, Kharkiv region; Dima’s father missing after Nov 2023; plus others like Rosalie staff, Helena tutor studying clinical psychology).

Key claims

Ambiguous loss leaves children “waiting” with no closure; trauma is compounded by multiple missing relatives; phone limits reduce harmful war content exposure; group therapy and creative activities help children express grief/anger.

Notable examples

Nastya’s last sighting of her father in Poltava; Dima’s WhatsApp video “tea break” then official missing-in-action; camp ceremonies (minute’s silence, bonfire goodbye) and art like “Daddy Comes Home.”

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Morning at the Camp

0:51 to 4:20

A look into the daily routine and activities of children at a camp for the missing.

“It's just after eight in the morning and the kids at the camp are being woken up by Ukrainian pop songs and they're emerging from their rooms quite bleary-eyed, actually.”

Nastya's Story

4:20 to 6:20

Nastya shares her experiences and memories of her father who went missing.

“Nine o 'clock sharp, quiet descends Right across the country and here in the camp as they hold a minute's silence to remember the fallen of this war followed by the national anthem.”

Group Therapy Insights

6:20 to 10:17

An overview of group therapy sessions focusing on grieving and emotional expression.

“Now it's time for a group therapy session.”

Art and Healing

10:17 to 14:03

Exploring how creative activities help children process their emotions and grief.

“You're saying the kids are afraid to cry because they think that if they start crying, they'll cry forever.”

Trauma of Missing Parents

14:03 to 16:43

Explore the deep trauma faced by children with missing parents in Ukraine.

“And these children sometimes feel guilty because of their grief if father's still alive.”

Children's Memories of War

17:19 to 21:48

Hear powerful stories of children sharing their traumatic memories of war.

“The kids are now sitting around a campfire on bright purple mats, all in a big circle.”

Art Therapy and Expression

21:49 to 26:55

Discover how art therapy helps children express their feelings about loss.

“And it's kind of this vivid green colour.”

Camp Closure and Emotional Goodbyes

26:56 to 28:00

Witness the emotional farewell at the camp and the ongoing support for children.

“Difficult to say goodbye, but I know that they have all kinds of resources and they will be able to cope with all difficulties in their lives in the future.”

Children's Reflections on Family and Loss

28:00 to 30:39

Children share their experiences and feelings about their missing fathers and the impact of war.

“forget that here, maybe first in their lives, they found people who went through the same experience.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market.

0:35BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

0:43Rise and shine in Western Ukraine.

0:51It's just after eight in the morning and the kids at the camp are being woken up by Ukrainian pop songs and they're emerging from their rooms quite bleary-eyed, actually. And the first activity of the morning is exercise and they've got a packed schedule for the day ahead.

1:08We have a really busy programme because kids, if they have five free minutes, they are just doing chaos. They are doing some crazy stuff.

1:25This is a camp for the children of Ukraine's missing. 50 of them, aged between 7 and 17, with one thing in common. They all have a parent who's disappeared in the war. We've been given exclusive access to this pioneering project, the first camp of its kind. We're spending several days with the children, camp staff and psychologists.

1:47Will Vernon:Many of these children have multiple traumas because not only their fathers are missing, but some of them have uncles missing, grandfathers missing. And we are working with all of it, like one huge painful hole that we are trying to heal. Vanwii Matyresyan is the chief psychologist of Gen Ukrainian, the charity running this two-week camp. This type of trauma is really difficult and there is no ready program for children. Ambiguous loss is really difficult to cope with because there is no closed point. Tell me, what is ambiguous loss? Ambiguous loss is the type of loss where you do not know whether your loved ones are alive or dead, whether your house is okay or destroyed, whether your future is defined or not.

2:47Will Vernon:So the main feature of this is ambiguity, uncertainty. So they are living like in a frozen state. They are waiting. They do not know how to move on. And that makes this type of trauma maybe the most difficult to work with.

3:12There's about 50 kids here, most of them wearing a white t-shirt with the charity's logo on it. And they're jumping and running on the spot and doing stretching. Still quite early here in the Carpathian Mountains, bit of a grey morning. And a lot of the kids here look quite tired. They're yawning. But this is a great way to start the day. Jen Ukrainian's logo is a red heart drawn by a child with the words love heals wounds. It's become a kind of motto for this camp. And now they're all pretending to be cats. This is a cat dance.

3:52Even though it's early and it's a bit cold and grey and they're being forced to come outside and do this exercise, the kids do seem to be genuinely enjoying themselves. and that's one of the key parts of this camp is to just let kids be kids, just have fun as well as the art therapy, the sport therapy and the counselling they're just here to have a good time as well

4:20Nine o 'clock sharp, quiet descends Right across the country and here in the camp as they hold a minute's silence to remember the fallen of this war

4:41followed by the national anthem.

4:46Then it's breakfast time.

4:52Dad was always very good to us. He's very kind. He always spoiled me. He had a sweet tooth like me and bought me sweets a lot. Nastya's father disappeared around a year ago. He was serving in the Ukrainian army on the front line. Nastya, who is 16, lives with her mother in Kharkiv in northeastern Ukraine. As with all the children at the camp, we spoke to her with a psychologist present.

5:21When he came home from work, he'd bring my favourite chocolate bar or sweets. He used to come home and say, Nastia, here you are. And I used to think, Dad's spoiling me again. Can you tell me when you last saw your dad?

5:39It was in the city of Poltava. We went there for two days because Dad was training there. He was given permission to leave the military college and we went to the city centre and had a walk. Dad and I had pizza. and then the next day he came to our hotel and we had grilled meat. That was the last time I saw him. It was two weeks before he disappeared.

6:03I remember only the good things about Dad. The only sad thing I remember is that he went missing. I'm just glad that I've got memories of the happy times with him.

6:19There are two very excitable dogs in here, Lola and Olaf.

6:26Now it's time for a group therapy session. So the kids have finished cleaning their rooms and now they're going to be discussing things like grieving and their fears. And therapy sessions take place every day at the camp, both individual and group therapy.

6:45Rosalie is one of the camp staff showing us around.

7:04Rostislav is here helping me with some of the translation. So in the evening there's going to be a grieving session of saying goodbye by the bonfire of kids and mentors and everybody else. It's like a ceremony for them. And how old are the kids in here? 11, 13 years old. Can we come in?

7:33We were allowed to observe the group therapy for just a few minutes at the beginning of the session. The rest of it is confidential. Rostislav told us what was said inside. So today the psychologist said that it's a hard topic and they're going to speak about being sad, feelings that are unpleasant. and that the more unpleasant and sad we feel, the more we love the people who are we sad about and that we show us and others that these people are important for us and that let's discuss today in what zone are we? Is it yellow, green or blue? And how are we feeling about it today? And so there's actually a poster on the wall with the different colours, blue, green, yellow and red and each of those indicate how the kids are feeling.

8:25Green is a little happy face so the kids are feeling good today. And red is sad, angry. Yeah, and then yellow portrays emotions of being anxious. Right, and blue is sad. One child in particular said that she was feeling sad because of the foggy weather today and it was a good side from a psychologist to say well it's going to be foggy only today and it's going to be a good weather tomorrow. And then the rest of the group explained that they were feeling either green or yellow, and mainly green, so it seemed like children were in a good mood for today.

9:10So the kids are standing in a circle, practising volleyball moves. We're in an absolutely enormous indoor sports hall. And the seats at the side of the hall are painted yellow and blue in the Ukrainian colours.

9:31Sport is a key part of the programme here. The psychologists say it's crucial to helping heal trauma.

9:38Will Vernon:Some of them are afraid to cry. For example, we have some children who started to cry during the individual sessions and they feel fear of crying because they think that if they start crying, it will continue forever. So they cannot control this sadness. And many of them have a huge aggression to the world because it is unfair that they face these difficulties, especially for teenagers. And they have difficulties to control this aggression and they feel afraid of this anger and they try to pump it down in order not to feel it because control is difficult. You're saying the kids are afraid to cry because they think that if they start crying, they'll cry forever.

10:28I mean, it's terribly sad.

10:29Will Vernon:It's terribly sad. How do you feel when you are with these kids? It is really difficult for us. It is the most difficult group for us because we really see that they need our help but we can make only small steps. And when they start crying and telling us that for them it is a big fear, we feel sadness too because we are people. We cannot be only in a professional position and we only can hold them in this moment because this uncertainty is really horrible.

11:06ball. One thing these children don't get much of is access to their mobile phones, which they hand in at the start of the camp. They only get them back for an hour each evening. After a few days of noisy protests, the phones were quickly forgotten and the kids became much more interested in the camp activities. Can you tell me what the kids are doing here? So here we are working on plasticine to make some pictures and like here you can see the flowers because as you know... The kids are saying hello to us while we're talking. Children are going through different grief stages and one of this is anger and it helps them when they like work with their fingers and put the plasticine on the paper it helps us to release anger and it helps them to transform their emotions to a more calm state.

12:07As we can hear. Yeah yeah you can hear Just tell me your name. Introduce yourself. Okay. So my name is Helena. I'm 23 years old. I'm here as a tutor and I'm studying clinical psychology. So it's the littler kids in this room, aged between 7 and 11. There are about 12 or 15 of them. So they're making, sticking the plasticine to little square pieces of cardboard and making different shapes and patterns. and I think I can see some sort of blue monster being made down there. That is quite cool. One little girl is just holding up her creations. She's stuck plasticine on a piece of cardboard and she's made what looks like a cat surrounded by fish.

12:52I think the cat's hunting for the fish perhaps in a bowl, which looks quite nice. And I can also see a sunset made out of plasticine as well. They're actually really good. Everything that we do here is related to help them to express these emotions and go through all these grief stages with us together. We try to help them to talk more and to release everything what they're not telling their parents, not telling their close ones. Jen Ukrainian has held a number of summer camps for other groups of children, including for those who were abducted and taken to Russia before being repatriated. But this is the first camp specifically for the children of the missing.

13:41Oksana Lebedeva is the founder of the charity. For many of them, it is the first time for last years they have in a safe environment. And basically we give them their childhood back. You know, the children's psyche need clarity, need safety and simplicity. And these children sometimes feel guilty because of their grief if father's still alive. And these children are stuck in the middle of hope and despair. Every single day they are waiting for the message from the parents. And how serious is that trauma? Oh, I believe it is a challenge of our time. It is the most painful and least understood trauma.

14:32Unlike a confirmed death, these children who experience this kind of trauma have no possibility and have no chance to say goodbye to their parents. More than 70 ,000 of adults are missing, so you can imagine how children are suffering. What kind of things do you see these children doing? They're so much involved, always looking for their parents themselves. They spend a lot of time in social media, but special channels, Russian channels. And they are looking for the information about their parents. So they are seeing so much tortures, corpse. It's a violence content. So like extreme videos? Extreme videos for them, and there's so much trauma for their psyche as well.

15:24So these are videos from the war showing torture and executions and that kind of thing? Absolutely, yes, because they don't have information. Children need information. And not only children, of course. It's deep trauma. You can only help a certain amount of children, right? You only have the resources and the space to help. a relatively small amount of children, but there are many, many tens of thousands of families out there who need help. So how big is the job that you have to do? The challenge is huge. But we are now on the forefront of psychological research due to our immense societal trauma we are enduring.

16:09So this job is to know as much as possible about this trauma, to be with our children as a supportive society, to share and to spread the expertise through all social services and systems and to build the effective, not only psychological supportive programs, but also all systems through all countries. We have to be a children-focusing country.

16:44Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market.

17:19The kids are now sitting around a campfire on bright purple mats, all in a big circle. And they're taking it in turns to describe warm memories, pleasant memories from the past. Some of them are talking about performances they've done in front of all their friends. Some of them are talking about their families. One girl said that her warmest memory was when she used to go walking with her father and listen to his stories. She said, that really warms my soul. My dad was across the road.

17:57After he walked up to us, he said, daughter, you're going home with me. Look what's happening. the war has started and by the time that we got home I saw my mom packing things. And I also remember sitting in the bomb shelter wearing two hats and a cucumber in my hand.

18:30It was the start of the war I remembered that I wouldn't laugh much. The war took my childhood from me.

18:45The children are now sharing their stories of their memories of when the war started. It really is incredibly emotional. Kids talking about the first time they heard explosions and how their parents were panicking, them having to pack up their things and leave. It really is a very powerful testimony from these children. And then my dad came over to my place, to our home, and started hugging me and crying. and so together we cried with him and he told me that the Russians are firing rockets at us and shelling us and he told me that it might be the case that you're not going to see me ever again and with that said I'm going to do everything that is possible that you're going to live a normal life.

Read the full transcript

19:46That voice at the campfire is Dima. He's 15 years old and comes from the Kharkiv region.

19:56I last saw Dad alive when he came home to see me from the war. He didn't used to come home very often. He was back for about a week. When Russia launched its full-scale invasion three and a half years ago, Dima's dad signed up to fight. He last spoke to him in November 2023, the day before he disappeared.

20:21The last time he wrote to me was a message on WhatsApp. He sent me a video of them all drinking tea in the forest, and he said, we're having a tea break, everything's fine, I'll call you tomorrow. Then the next day, when mum and I were in the bus between the village and the city, she got a call on her mobile. She started crying and asking the person on the other end questions. How, when, where, why, and things like that. She was crying a lot. And I was thinking, the worst thing that could have happened is Dad's gone. Then we got home and I said, Mum, why are you crying? What's going on? She told me to sit on the bed and sat next to me.

21:07She said she got a call from the local military office and Dad is officially missing in action. I said, that can't be right. Dad wrote to me yesterday and said everything was fine. I started calling dad's mobile, but there was no answer. I messaged on WhatsApp, Telegram, everywhere. I kept calling him. Dad didn't answer. I didn't want to think that dad had died. I kept hoping till the last, even now I hope, that dad is a prisoner of war somewhere.

21:47we're on a hike now with the children a nature hike we can't say exactly where we are because the charity have asked us not to reveal the location but we are in the carpathian mountains and it is really an achingly picturesque area the kind of gentle slopes of the carpathian mountains completely smothered in fir trees and spruce. And it's kind of this vivid green colour. It really is a beautiful area. And the reason they've asked us not to say exactly where we are is obviously to keep the children safe, but also their parents, some of whom are still living in occupied areas, areas that have been taken by Russia.

22:35one of the kids is about to give producer john a special present and she just asked me how to say this is for you in english thank you so much is this your father yes

23:00little kira has got a picture of her dad in military uniform uh standing by the azov sea on the coast and it's on the front of her t-shirt and on the back she's got the words i'm waiting for my dad thank you for the flowers very kind she says thank you to you too come on kira

23:26We're at art therapy now. The kids are painting, doing drawings. This is another way for them to express themselves. Art therapy is one of the key elements of this camp. And I can see a lot of the kids have drawn things like houses, very colourful paintings, lots of blue and yellow of the Ukrainian flag. And I'm just looking at one here, a painting that's been drawn by a little boy called Zahar. He's seven from Vynytsa in central Ukraine and he told me that his painting is called Daddy Comes Home. I can see a tree he's drawn. He's also painted the colors of the Ukrainian flag and a lovely blue sky.

24:08In the middle of the painting is a little yellow stick man with an arrow pointing to other little yellow stick men so that obviously symbolizes his daddy coming back home to the family.

24:24And there's also a rather nice cat that someone's painted.

24:31A lot of the camp staff here are very tired. They tell me that they haven't been sleeping well. Yesterday there was a really serious drone and missile attack on Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital. Dozens of people killed in that. and many of the camp counsellors here, the camp staff, either live in Kiev or their families are there, and they say they're desperately worried about their loved ones in the cavity. Dima has painted a figure of a boy next to a man with angel wings and sunbeams radiating out of him, and a red heart underneath. Below, he's written the word Dad in Ukrainian.

25:13Then a bad period of my life began after Dad disappeared. Mum was called by the military and was given the first piece of information, that Dad had been blown up by an airstrike. Then someone else called Mum and said the Russians had reached their position and shot everyone, and someone saw my dad's body lying there without any legs. Then another soldier said they saw him with shrapnel wounds to the head and that he was dead. Mum was called over and over and each time got different information. Mum cried a lot because of that. I realised I was the only one who could support her. When Dad left, he told me, Dima, no matter what happens, you must look after Mum because you're a man and you're her son.

26:08We're at the closing ceremony now, a time for the camp staff and the children to say goodbye to each other. There's a lot of hugs, a lot of tears, and each of the kids are being given a little gift, a memento from the camp, which consists of a bracelet of red thread, which in the Christian faith is a symbol of loving care, a safety pin, which in Ukraine represents protection, and a little tiny metal hippo on it. And a hippo is part of Gen Ukrainian, the charity's logo, and it's a hippo because they say in nature the hippo is the most loving, loyal parent. Of course that means a lot for the kids here whose fathers are missing.

26:55Oksana, how are you feeling? As always I'm sad. Always. Difficult to say goodbye, but I know that they have all kinds of resources and they will be able to cope with all difficulties in their lives in the future. hope so you know but we don't say goodbye like we're gonna be in touch with them long long time as they need us we always in touch with them one little boy ilya seems very upset he doesn't want to go home yes in every camp we have a child like this sometimes they are not able to distinguish their emotions and here the place where you can open all your emotions and when he opened it probably you know he felt that it's a real sad actually time so no it's gonna be okay everything because we have a special program to close everything and they will have a group in chats so everything gonna be okay it's kind of network as well if they want and here don't forget that here, maybe first in their lives, they found people who went through the same experience.

28:10And it's very important. For children, group therapy is much more important than everything. To see that you are not alone with this pain, it's very important. Many of the children will be going back to cities that come under fire almost every day, like Nastya, whom we spoke to earlier.

28:34Kharkiv comes under fire a lot. If it's far away, then I don't worry. If it's close, I go and shelter in the corridor. I worry about my relatives. I stress a lot. When you think about your dad, what kind of memories do you have about him?

28:56I love him very much, and I know he loves me too, and he would do anything to make me happy. so I'm thankful for the good times that we experienced together. I'm glad of that more than I'm sad because I hope we can make new memories with him again. Has the camp made you feel better?

29:18Yes, I think I've started feeling better. I've been having fun with friends and I've been really enjoying it. I am very proud. I understand that my dad was a hero. He went to fight for me, to protect me. When dad went missing, I thought if he sees me crying, he won't be happy. Because dad didn't like being sad. He was always happy. He used to encourage me to look on the bright side and not to cry about silly things. I understood that when my dad sees me sad, he will be sad too. So I try and be happy, just like my dad.

30:05They've got their luggage and they're getting on the bus now. That'll take them to the station and by train onto the capital, Kiev. There's a long journey ahead for a lot of them. They're going to have to cross the whole country to get back home. As the luggage is loaded, the final hugs are given out, the last selfies taken. The kids and the staff wave at us through the bus windows.

30:35I was going to say that it's back to normality for them, but for the children of Ukraine, there is no normality. For a lot of these kids, home means air raid sirens and explosions and fear. And, of course, the constant pain of their missing loved ones. Perhaps now, though, after this two weeks at the camp, they'll be better equipped to cope with that pain.

31:04Our culture can cancel someone in the blink of an eye. Celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line. In the age of AI-generated evidence, lawsuits written in legalese you need to pass the bar to decipher, how are you supposed to separate the fact from the fiction? that's where we come in I'm Manushka Matanda-Dowdy and this is Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds we'll myth bust debunk pre-bunk fact check and get to the truth behind the timeline there are new episodes every week so make sure you listen to Fame Under Fire and subscribe on BBC Sounds

From the publisher

A pioneering summer camp for Ukrainian children with missing parents. According to the Ukrainian government, more than 70 thousand people are missing in the war, leaving families, including thousands of children, anxious for news of their loved ones and unable to move on.

Psychologists say these children are some of the most traumatised they have worked with.

Now for the first time a leading Ukrainian children’s charity is putting on a special summer camp for some of these children, offering them therapy, fun activities and a safe place.

For Crossing Continents, Will Vernon is given exclusive access to this project, where psychologists are developing a new framework to treat these deeply traumatised children. Producer: John Murphy Sound mixer: Neil Churchill Production Coordinator: Gemma Ashman Series editor: Penny Murphy

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