136. Kim Le Court, Monument winner, stage hunter and history maker

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1:40Robyn: Welcome back to another episode of the Cyclist Magazine podcast. I'm your host today, Will Strixon. James is not here. He sends his best regards in an email. But I am joined today by Robin Davison. Robin, how are you? I'm so sick right now, Will. Not even the good kind of sick. I'm just very physically sick. So it's okay, because when we recorded this interview, I was fine. So listeners, or maybe viewers... You were sick in a different way. Heyo! I was so sick. But yeah, I'm plodding along. How are you, Will? you're podding along is that what you said podding like podcast i'm podding along see i'm so ill that it took me a second to get that amazing dad joke probably for the best we'll get to the interview rather promptly partially because people complain about the length of the intro is partially because it's a good interview today you may notice that the tour de france is on at the moment you may also notice maybe not yet because it's kind of under the radar because the crossover but the say it's the longest one yet starting in Brittany in Van I believe which also has a rugby club if you're into that kind of thing yes it should be a really good race in big mountains and maybe a very tight GC contest but today Robin and I are slash have interviewed Kim LeCourte Pienaar who you will have seen and you will have seen her rise to power in 2024 from she used to be a cross country and marathon mountain biker several time Mauritian national champ putting Mauritius and Africa on the cycling map in a pretty big way won a stage of big stage of the Giro last year and then this year she had a very impressive classics campaign topped off by Liège-Bastogne Liège win which was very good to watch and yeah she will be at the Tour de France fam she will be hoping to do something good at the Tour de France fam but we'll get on to her goals and her history and all that in the interview.

3:37Robyn: So without messing around, I was about to swear, without messing around, let's welcome Kim LeCoult-Pienaar.

3:49So Kim, I guess we'll start with the fact you're obviously from Mauritius. How did you get into cycling? What is growing up there like? Neither of us have been, I don't think, Will.

4:01Robyn: No. No. So, yeah, I think it's, to be honest, we were one of those people, well, one of those families where just to start off Mauritius, you can actually ride on the highway. Yeah, that's how small we are. You're allowed to ride your bike on the highway. It looks like a main road in other countries, but for us it's a highway. And we were like one of those people where you would drive on the highway and see cyclists ride on the highway. And we would literally be like, oh, those stupid cyclists. literally we were those people and then one day my dad and mom had this one friend who organized this one race in Mauritius called the 100 kilometer cycle and we went to this braai this barbecue afternoon barbecue at his place and he gave a challenge to my parents to borrow a bike and finish the ride we've never cycled before we were not cyclists I was into soccer my brother was into rugby so my parents were like yeah hell yeah we are up for challenges or my mom and dad so they did it and then um I have an older brother and he kind of fell in love with it a little bit but I was still too young and I was still very much into the soccer not very interested into the cycling until my brother really got into it and any sport he went and tried and and I wanted to follow him he was really my my mentor everything he did I wanted to do it and do it better so that's kind of how I got into it sounds like siblings yeah yeah yeah yeah we get along really well so um I mean now he doesn't cycle anymore but he kind of lives his dream through me which is yeah really cool and then how does it go from that to you had a stint in Europe before this current spell didn't you in the sort of mid 2010s I think you were racing you did the women's tour and the Jira and stuff how did you get from the point of probably riding on the highway racing you know cars and things to racing in Europe well slowly but surely I fell in love with the sports I went to the mountain bike scene for quite a long time I was in that scene for yeah really long eight years of my career but I was I was a cyclist back then where I just didn't really want to be the best I just was happy with training I used to hate training I actually just wanted to come on a weekend and race and then just lie on the car all week and hopefully the legs are still fine for the racing on the weekend i did the bare minimum i trained like seven or eight hours a week like you know just the minimum minimum i would do and then just one day just clicked when i switched to the mountain bike scene towards the end of that career i raced big races like the cape epic and won those and it just clicked in my head that oh why don't i try and do something out of this why am i wasting my time and my coach's time and my family's time and everyone around me much time basically so yeah i just started to focus a bit more on that when i was second year junior i went to the youth olympics and i did pretty well there and that's where i kind of got an opportunity in europe and that was in 2015 i got my first um kind of pro contract with matrix pro cycling who was back in the day there was no world tour racing but they were in the top five best teams in the world and that was quite crazy for me to get a shot in that so it's totally but surely went that way um but yeah 2016 i didn't have a really good year with bisque durango i crashed in stage one of the giro broke 11 ribs i had a kidney infection early in the year i broke my toe like it was just disastrous and i almost stopped the sport i almost gave up on it completely i wanted to hang my bike up but then i came back to south africa and that's when the whole process of switching to the mountain bike scene and having fun and falling in love with the bike again came and then yeah i achieved a lot on the mountain bike scene and my husband and i were starting to kind of discuss on where we're going to go next what's next after this of course i can come back and win the epic again and the swiss epic and go to world championships and do those things but it kind of plateaus yes it's different courses it's different years but it it's the same race and i wanted something to challenge myself more i've just always been that type of person who i just want to be better than I was yesterday um something that excites me something that motivates me something different and he said well why not try to go back on the road that's always been your dream you've tried when you were 18 19 it didn't work out financially and mentally it just wasn't the right time why don't we try again and I was and I was what 2023 that was the discussion early 2023 just after my win at the Swiss Epic and um and I just laughed at him honestly I was 27 at the time and I just said, well, firstly, I'm quite, I mean, I'm young, but I'm not at the age where our days teams sign riders, but I guess I was still stuck in back in the day in 2015, 2016, where the, where the signed really young riders and now times have changed, you know, riders my age, that's where we peak.

8:56I mean, even later, I think we peaked just after 30. So yeah, um, cycling has changed and then I just laughed at him and I said, you know, you can do the effort. I'm scared to be rejected. I was too nervous to kind of go back into that scene because I really didn't believe in myself. I thought I was not going to do anything. I thought I was going to struggle to even keep up with the bunch, to be honest. So he did all the work and yeah, it paid off. We got the right person at the right time, I guess, and we got given a shot.

9:25Robyn: So also you did the Commonwealth Games a couple of times in the 2010s, didn't you? I think the second one, you came 16th. and if you look at the results you're surrounded by riders that are already racing and winning at the top level and you still didn't think you could make it there before you actually did it then in 2024 because that was 2022 you were racing at that level and they're coming well yeah but at those races like i really just went to participate to like really for mauritius we used to go to those that we still do now. But back then, we used to go with the mentality of we have the opportunity to be in the team and represent our flag on this big stage.

10:10And for us, it was just to finish the race was an achievement. And really, it wasn't... I never went to the race to do something special because firstly, back then, I was never seeing myself on the road. 2022, I was fully into the mountain bike scene kind of thing. So it wasn't something... World Championships 2023, I went to do the road just because there was a spot. but I actually went for the mountain bike so yeah it wasn't really a goal for me it was just to finish and now the mentality has completely changed where we went to Olympic Games last year for the win going to world championships this year for the win because yeah now obviously we know I can do it so it's a complete different mindset but back then I was really like on the road I was just the rider that's like oh it's yeah it's super cool to be around those riders that are the best in the world but I'm just here to actually have fun and finish hopefully finish

10:59Robyn: it's slightly downplaying your mountain biking ability because winning the cape epic is you know one of the if not the hardest mountain bike races in the world that gets the better of some of the world's best cyclists you know take some pretty good legs to do that as well right what was the feeling for you like winning that race because obviously you're against some pretty incredible riders there as well oh yeah that was crazy i think the cape epic is i think a lot of my teammates now when we speak when we talk about it they i don't think they understand or gasp how hard it is mentally physically how much you have to go through we go there with a team of five that's including the two riders right two riders one mechanic one svanier and one manager if you call it like that if we're lucky sometimes we just fall going to a big race like that now we have a team this stacked of 30 riders with 40 staff or whatever the case is i mean it's like it's crazy it's mental but yeah i mean the cape epic is i would love to go back for sure and race it it's an amazing event it was only my second one so it was really the first one i did in 2021 we went just for fun and the second one i really went into win it was the the goal of it of course it was a huge dream because you you would never believe it right you sit on the couch and you watch a race like that and you always dream of being there, but you never, someone like me coming from a very, very, very small country and also from the continent where I come from, we don't see ourselves being up there with the best in the world.

12:33It's very surreal. So yeah, of course, winning it, especially with my teammate who also is from Africa, from Namibia, it was extremely special. Yeah. Can't really explain how hard it is and how crazy this race is. You have to just experience it for yourself to really understand it. it's also if you go to a classics or in the classics in the classics outends it's hard to explain for my husband that hasn't been there how hectic it is how crazy the public is how intense the media is about one event it's really hard to explain that unless you're there to

13:05Robyn: experience it for yourself so when you then got back into top level say a high level than before so signing for ag what was that process like to sign with ag insurance sudal and then what was that like for you then to go straight into that big team environment yeah I mean it was unexpected the signing to be honest we've been in discussion with them since August 2023 and it's been back and forth discussions and there's been really high hopes and then all of a sudden like shattered and back up and like it's always been up and down I mean we I was to the point where I was willing to for me personally I've said to my husband like if I sign to go overseas on the road team it needs to either it needs to only be a world tour team I'm not going to sign for for smaller because I'm already in a comfortable position on the mountain bike scene here at home where I don't need to be away from family and still able to make cycling mountain biking as a career so for me to really leave everything behind it needs to be the best of the best or yeah I'm not going to sacrifice my life for that so when ag reached out or we reached out to them and they kind of replied and it was really back and forth from august until november i really lost hope towards the end of october because i mean it's literally mid-november in two weeks time everyone's going on training camp so how it's not possible that i'm going to get a contract already and i was getting married early december so i was already planning my 2024 year with the mountain bike trying to plan okay cape epic and this and that and kind of plan b and then i got this call from natasha who was the ex-co-founder of the team and she was like hey can we can we have a chat and the first feeling i had was oh like you know what now like it's probably going to be another disappointment and yeah so i went home and i my whole family was actually my lounge because we were doing the final preps for my wedding and I sat and on teams with her and the first thing when she came on the the camera she was just like so yeah how are you and like her attitude was super like sad so I felt like oh shucks okay this is bad news and then all of a sudden suddenly she was like oh I've got good I've got a good present wedding present for you and you we got a contract and yeah you got a contract we're signing you so I just like the person started into tears on camera and I did not know what to do with myself I was shaking so much and I couldn't speak and then she was like I'll go see your family I'll wait and she's just stayed on teams and I was away for like five to 10 minutes and she still was here on teams and yeah I was like screaming and with my family and celebrating and I came back and it was surreal but then she was like okay but um this was like the end of November literally I was getting married the next weekend or the week in coming and she was like well you need to be in top in two weeks and then january you're gonna go to australia and and then um you're gonna come to valdham and race omelope and this and that and i was like whoa like hectic okay i was super excited of course but then i was like but natasha just one second i'm going to my honeymoon though like a week so uh what about that and then she It was just like, oh, it's fine.

16:21You can come a few days later. It's okay. So yeah, they were super chilled. I was super nervous to meet the goals because my previous experience in 2015 and 2016 was not what I had now with AG. I suppose because the team management in general may be less structured, less happy as people, I would imagine, because if you get less support from sponsors, less possibilities to look after riders, then as a whole, you're not as motivated and excited than you are now today. So I was really nervous to get the same kind of, not saying it was bad then, but it wasn't what it was now. It just wasn't the same welcome.

16:58I felt super alone back in the day when I went to Europe for the first time. And I was worried that that would be the first feeling for me because that was one of the hardest things for me and one of the reasons why I didn't want to stay there. So when I came to Calpene, I met everyone. I was extremely shy, but my character, I'm shy at first. and once I get comfortable, I'm just, yeah, I'm fine. But I was super surprised. I felt literally a day later, I phoned my husband and I was like, this is amazing. They are so nice and I feel so welcomed and such a warm welcome and the team is super nice and I was super surprised.

17:35So I felt like literally at home in a few days. And especially for yourself as well, like when you get that sort of another opportunity to be on the road and you seem more at home in a place what are you then aiming for in that next season like are you going all out or are you sort of focusing on kind of edging your way back in again no I was um really I I remember being in my hotel room and telling my teammate that I'm ready actually to I'm so excited and sorry to be the best domestique I can be this year like I hope I can keep up in a bunch because from all the experience I've had in the European peloton has been a struggle right I've barely finished any races like I did the Fletcher Wallonne in 2016 I came second last I did the Tour of Britain in 2015 I came last an hour and a half back like really it was I was just able to finish Green wagon like disastrous like finish in tears every race it was horrible experience so my experience was that I'd never had an experience of being able to feel comfortable and perform and feel like I belong there so I was like I'm ready to learn I'm ready to be the best domestic I can be for the leaders of the team and I remember my teammates saying but Kim like things can change I think you can be one of those leaders soon if you just keep on like, they believed in me so soon.

19:09I haven't even ridden my bike yet. So, yeah, it's been like for me, I was ready to be that domestic and then we went to Australia and I was domestic there for Sarah and Ali. And they could see how I rode and the feedback I got back from the team already from Australia. They were like, wow, you're so talented. Where were you all these years? and hearing that from the girls that had already been in a bunch felt amazing. So again, a little bit of motivation that, oh, great, okay, maybe it won't be as terrible as 2015 and 2016. And then slowly as the year went by, the team kind of saw maybe the talent I had and they put a little bit more attention to me.

19:48But I quickly switched to being a domestic, to being one of the leaders of the team, which was quite a shock because firstly, the pressure is something I've not been used to. I've never had this kind of pressure and I wasn't ready for it. It's really new. I just still had to learn how to ride a road bike and push the power I used to push on the mountain bike, which is completely different positions. Learn race tactics, learn how to race in a group of six, seven goals when I'm only used to racing solo or with one other goal. It's much easier to race. There was so much I needed to learn very fast, but the team were very good in a way that they wanted to let me know that they want to work long term and slow and I don't need to stress.

20:32I don't need to do it now. But then I was the one that actually was like, no, no, no. I want to do it now. I want to really perform now. So every race I would start doing top tens. Well, my first top ten in Australia, I was actually disappointed because we went there to win. And I did ninth. and the team was so happy and I could understand. I could not understand why they're so happy. And then I kind of, from the reaction I've had, I kind of realized, okay, maybe a top 10 in the World Tour race is quite good. But then I started getting a few top 10s throughout the year and it started getting normal to me to the point where, okay, now I'm kind of getting fed up of top 10s.

21:09I want a top five. I want to do better. Like, I want to do better than what I did before. And like the team could see that I was really hungry to do well. so they really put a lot of focus and then slowly but surely I learned and yeah this year has been much better than I ever believed so are you saying that when you finished 10th your first Paris Roubaix you're at this point no so actually Roubaix Roubaix is um as the only race where I finished in tears of being proud of what I did because I crashed in Ghent-Webbel game and I had a torn ligament in my wrist and I raced the whole year with that and Roubaix was I was in a lot of pain I almost stopped I think after the second global section in Roubaix because I could not hold on my mobile anymore with my left hand to the point I almost went over my bars and I said it in the radio I was like I can't do this anymore I'm in so much pain and my DS just said Kim you know your pain threshold you decide you make the call no pressure you make the call and of course I'm not gonna I'm not gonna stop so I'll just carry it on and then slowly but surely I just kept on riding past the groups and came 10th and I just to not give up and ride for that extreme pain I was feeling was something I was super proud of and I've always told myself that I would feel happier to finish the race whether I finish 50th 40th or 30th than to stop I know the feeling afterwards if I finish I'll be happier than if I stop completely because then there's the regrets of what if what if and you never know so yeah Roubaix I was actually super proud but like for instance this year Flanders I came fifth and I was really disappointed so yeah and San Remo also was disappointed so it depends kind of where my expectations were for the racing of course it's very cool to do 10th at Roubaix but I've done a lot of top 10th so I know I could do better it's just through the pain I've been through in the race that I was just proud of never giving up And obviously you have so much mountain bike experience coming into these races and into the classics.

23:11Would you say that you were sort of, I guess, like always destined to kind of shine in these kind of on these races, in these parkour with these cobbles? Is it sort of for you, you were saying like how much you were feeling free and enjoying mountain biking? Is that sort of a similar experience to you? I don't know, because when I rode the cobbles for the recon of Omelope, which I've never ridden cobbles in my life before, in 2015 and 2016, I don't think we've done any cobbles stuff. I think I've only done the Champs -Élysées Woman Tour de France, the last edition one that was only on the Champs -Élysées.

23:50And I can't remember it, really. It was raining, everyone was crashing everywhere. So I just can't remember that. But when I did the Omelope recon on the cobbles, I remember literally after the first section looking at my teammate and saying, or even thinking to myself internally, saying, what the hell am I doing here? This is terrible. How am I going to race on this? I'm going to come dead lost. I remember saying it to myself. And then obviously then you think Omeloup is small compared to like Flanders or Roubaix or those kind of couple sections. but I I've also tried to explain to the team that on the mountain bike firstly we have much bigger wheels we have suspension it's much more comfortable than of course some skills come into hand for sure for like Strader Bianchi I felt super comfortable in the downhills on the on the gravel sections compared to some other girls I can see doesn't have much skills but then if you go downhill at 80ks an hour in a bunch you have to firstly trust your line but you have to also trust everyone around you on the mountain bike you go down a single track there's a lot of rocks and you go half the speed downhill or even less the rocks don't move in front of you you just have to trust your line so so there's not a lot of things you have to kind of gather around you if you're going to the single track first that someone's behind you then they're behind you you don't need to worry about them but in the race in a road race there are a hundred other girls around you that you have to just trust that they don't just switch you or come in front of you or it's completely different and i try to explain that to the team that okay i come from a mountain bike background maybe it's some power output helps me here and there or maybe some skills help me here and there but but i've not ridden on cobbles on the road bike or side on the old gravel on a road bike it's not the same so yeah i guess some skills help confidence help but it's completely different racing it's it's not the same thing

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28:15Robyn: Then head to hammerhead.io and use the promo code cyclist to get a free heart rate monitor with every purchase of a crew. Just make sure we put everything in the basket first before applying that promo code. Cyclist promo code hammerhead.io is where you can find all the gear so last year then after you know a good classic season but like you say you didn't get that win and then you go into the gyro you have a good race and then you win that final stage how much of a breakthrough did that feel and was it like relief because you were expecting to win before or was that just pure enjoying the moment no actually no actually the first five stages jura was what eight stages the first half stages were great great i was lying fifth it was fantastic but then came stage six where it was extremely warm with the heat and i got sick on that day with heat stroke and I was vomiting on the bike and it was horrendous terrible I could not eat I could not drink I went to the medics to get some some stuff I don't know what they could give me it still didn't work we finished the stage finished on this steep 1.5 kilometer thing where I actually lost a few seconds there and I was like really no I was drained I was absolutely broken because the day after that stage seven is the queen of the mountain stage which you should normally get a lot of energy from eating well the day before to go into that day but for my case it was complete opposite I barely ate and drank that day going into the queen stage I'm like okay it's never over until it's over start the stage can't eat can't drink nothing I probably ate one jar the whole day and I lost 16 minutes and I was just trying to pull my body up those mountains to the finish line my teammate though got the polka dot jersey so that was amazing for us at least we did something there so then I went into stage eight the last stage of the Giro with absolutely no pressure like I was off GC GCOS was gone so night was all in or nothing which was great but the night before the evening of that queen stage I sat at dinner table and Patrick was sitting on my left and I kind of like laughed about it and I said I tapped him on the shoulder and I said hey Patrick like, don't worry, okay?

30:41Today, I just made them think I'm dead, but tomorrow I'm going to kill them. And then I was just joking around, like not being serious. And he's like, oh, actions speak louder than words. And I said, okay. So the next morning, I can't explain what it is, but I was such in a good mood. I don't know what it was. I just felt like all the pressure was off my back. And it was obviously the first time I was a pure leader and a grand tour. So that's something I've never had before. So I think that pressure was hard for me to handle, especially my first year ever on the road scene again. And having that pressure completely fall off was like, I felt super light.

31:22I felt all of a sudden I had 10 million energy that I kind of saved for the last two days, somehow, someway. And the goal of the day was to win the stage. That was the only goal of the team. We're going to win today, no matter what, we can kill them, we have to be in the brave, blah, blah, blah. So it was actually really hard to get into the break that day. We tried everything. But then it worked. And then I was in the break and the last, yeah, I stayed in the break of three of us. And I remember my, well, actually the break went up the road and then I had to bridge over. So I jumped over and I got there and I was absolutely broken.

31:57And then the two girls told me to help them pace. And I, yeah, I thought I was going to actually drop again. But I had to go over just to kind of, I don't know. show that I'm trying to help at least. And at the time, my wrist was also in so much pain in the down heels, could barely hold my elbow. And I remember my DA selling me in the last five kilometers, there was like, or 10 kilometers, there was this feed zone. And I had these gels packets in my pocket. And she's like, throw your gels packets away. It's like aerodynamics. And I was like, wow, okay. I never thought of that, you know, like small things like that.

32:32So I was like throwing my stuff and I was like, I need a caffeine gel. She gave me a caffeine gel. but now I'm stressing because now this is it this is my opportunity to do something amazing for the team and I I remember we got this little kicker before the finish like and she says on the kicker just fake it fake it like you're big and I was like what and I was like okay so then I started spitting and like breathing loud and like acting like I was super dead and it worked because the girl attacked and i could follow and i counted her and then she followed and i was like oh shit mom they're in trouble so then yeah we got to the finish and she jolene my ds is the ex pro rider and she's obviously super experienced she knows all the riders in the bunch i know no one so she guides me on who's fast who's not fast who should i follow how should i do it it felt like i was doing a video game and she's just playing it was so nice but yeah it worked and I was super shocked.

33:35Of course, it's nice to finish it like that, especially when you've had two hard days in a row. It shows that the human body can recover. It's all in the mindset as well. So that was a good learning curve. But yeah, super special to also get the first World Tour win in a World Tour stage race, a World Tour stage race, Grand Tour for the team. We've never won a stage in a Grand Tour, so it was super special for us as well. and obviously it must be absolute exhaustion as you crossed the line but how did you how did you then celebrate later i think it was exhaustion but at the same time you're so hyped that you're full of energy but unfortunately i didn't have such an awesome celebration afterwards because i went to dope testing and i struggled with that for long i was there for probably three to four hours because I was dehydrated so um so basically everyone almost left um they drank my champagne the team guys I'm still here the team drank my champagne they kind of left and kind of that was it like it was just a bit sad um but yeah I mean they did come see me to a dope testing but I wish I could also have some champagne with them.

34:52Robyn: How did your victory and your success in that first season go down with people at home? Yeah, it was super special. Of course, people were, in Mauritius, people were jumping up and down for sure. I think it's just very surprising because of how fast my progress has been and just being on the scene for only a few months. But I think being surrounded by the right people and having the right background in terms of my husband being such an amazing support system, my family and my friends, but also the team. They believed in me, I think, more than ever now. But they've already seen a bit of a spark of what kind of rider I can be back then, and they've just supported me.

35:32So yeah, for sure, the support has been insane. And I think since that, the support I get from Mauritius and Africa has been really, really amazing. I feel like a lot more people are following the scene now, which is really special. And obviously the Mauritius national champion kit looks a bit similar to the world champion kit. Do you ever get people like saying you're Lotte Kapeki? Yes, actually. Well, at the Giro last year, at the team presentation, it was the first race I had my national kit on. And Lotte was also there. So that was really strange for me because people would surround me asking for pictures and autographs of Lotte.

36:16and she's literally standing there and i and i felt so embarrassed because in my team there's justine who is also belgium and a good friend of lotsa and they just laughed at me they were laughing at me so much and i just hated it i was just like your guys i'll sign yeah take it yeah signing his pictures like but at the same time my guys she's like right there you can like the real one just yeah i'm like the the team real the sheen world champion at the moment this is the real one no that was all pretty yeah i think that's when things started being quite hectic to be honest people started saying things but not as bad as this year last year was a little bit there were some comments i mean there's even people making videos after my jury when like is this even legal like she we should ban her we should ban mauritia's from racing at all and there was a lot of bad comments but this was much much more hectic but i mean you know i'm friends with lotter now so i've actually asked her the question do you what do you think of my kit and like she told me straight up that at first she was like what the f but then i mean then everyone kind of everyone kind of knew it was now my country and my flag and i can't do anything about it you see i approved it and we can't change it if it's my flag it's my flag like it's unfortunately similar but that's not like I've never wanted to be someone else or try and be someone or I am who I am and it's just not my fault that my flag is just so pretty that's just what it is exactly exactly has it ever helped

37:52Robyn: you in a race where you've maybe attacked and there's a SD works rider as soon you go and just sort of let you go because they thought you're lotto I think I've had sometimes in the racing when it was just the beginning of me wearing the kits where I would be able to kind of get into trains and true because they would think they would think it's not me um which was funny but now i think people know but no actually i've never had the feeling where i think the girls in the bunch are not stupid i think they've known i've raced with them for a while now so it's just the people the cark potatoes who kind of have those accounts to just write that stuff and yeah of course there'll be people that don't know but i think now the people that are in the cycling community and that follows um and have respect um would would know the difference and as you say it's kind of like this is my country like you're helping put it on the map for those people who who don't know and it must you must get like so much pride as well from wearing that jersey yeah of course it's so special i think my helmet also is the helmet i mean i don't we don't have the same helmet that's where you can see the difference right the helmet exactly but i think also at yes for instance like uh demi and i were kind of laughing about it because i said i kind of whispered to her saying i hope now people are gonna realize that okay i'm kim and lotta's lotta and this is my kid and because now it's i kind of put a statement out there that okay i'm not just someone who want to be someone else people always think i want to be so i'm just me and i'm trying to make my own path here and hopefully now having my flag and my kid shown in big will make people realize okay you need to also kind of give me the same respect as all the other national championship riders and she was like oh but you know on rochefoucault at the top when i turned around and i saw the kids i thought it was lotta and she was like oh shit and then i thought it was you and i was like ah shit what where like what because even puck was like where did you come from you were not there and then you were there it's like a switch i think me and lotta were like you know we're just gonna quickly but yeah no i guess i still get a lot of comments and yes was actually really bad with the social media afterwards regarding the kids it's just disappointing to i try not read all the stuff because i obviously don't see all the stuff people write but when you get tagged in the stuff then you automatically see it and yeah it obviously hurts that people have really bad comments but But yeah, I guess it comes with the sport.

40:24And the better you perform, the more bad comments you'll get. And that's how they're trying to get to you. So yeah, I guess bad media is always good media.

40:33Robyn: Yeah, I mean, there's more attention to more people who are aware that you're not Lotto, which is good. You mentioned before that you were not quite pleased with some of your, what would most people with classes, really good results in monuments this season. So what were your goals and expectations coming into the classics this year, if that was like fifth in Tour of Flanders is disappointing, what were you expecting? To win? No, so like last year, we kind of looked at all the classics and we knew that I was a really good classics rider. So we wanted to come in with at least one win. And that was the goal.

41:10So we took the beginning of the year really chilled and my first big race to perform really well was San Remo. but coming to the race after the race we realized that we took the climbs way too easy um we should have broken up completely from much earlier because it's too short if you attack towards the end to get rid of big sprinters and if you get to the line of someone like Lorena then it's it's impossible to win the race just what it is we're just not top riders that can sprint against someone like her and then of course from there onwards it was to win the ideal world for everyone would to win every Classic.

41:48But for me, I wanted to at least win one. But the whole Classic season with the Ardennes, my biggest, biggest goal was actually Liege because we did it in the Tour de France last year in the Stage 4. And I had a really good stage there. I came fourth. So after that Stage in the Tour last year, my DS said, oh, we can come back to win Liege-Basin-Liege next year. And I didn't race it last year because I didn't do the Ardennes. I only did the Classics. I wasn't really climbing like I do this year back then. I was a bit of a different rider. So yeah, we did come into this year with Liège being the really biggest classic to want to perform at.

42:23I skipped Robert to be more in shape and more recovered for the art ends, more fresh. So yeah, it was really a big goal for us. And obviously, of course, everyone probably knows by now, but you wake up the morning of Liège. And as you've said, you've been so incredibly consistent. and it was like obvious that this win would be coming at some point and it's sort of hard to not know how the race will go but did you have like an inkling like yeah this is this is my day well there's actually a funny story oh i love a funny because we were well actually um it's scary story actually it's like weird because we were in the hotel after uh it was the monday after flanders and we were in the team hotel and that was the day where i was deciding okay should i do roubaix should i skip it what should i do like it was i really decided really late about this and also we had so many bad comments about market from liege people were emailing sforza about me emailing the team about me like my kid what's going on who's this double world champion whatever so there was a lot of like stuff about that so my teammate came to me um ulcer and she's like you know what let's try and see if we can make your kit different like just for fun so she put a picture of me from one of the photo shoots we did in team camp in December where I'm just standing normal with my national champs kit and she put it in chat GPT and she's like please can you change this kit to different whatever she put some details and it changed the picture and on our kit now we have no way written yes basan there's no way on our kit and on the chat GPT edit that it came back to us was my kit changed with the full flag whatever nothing else written just yeah on my chest and that was the 18th of march and and i'm like zooming i'm like guys what the hell and then should we do it again because we didn't like the design of the kits so we did it again and again just nothing else written and we did it three times and it was the same thing so then my teammates and I looking at you and they're like hitting me they're like dude it's a sign you're gonna win this race and I'm like oh my gosh like this is crazy so then Elsa screenshot of it she kept it and she's like if you win I'm gonna post that so then the morning of the race my teammates messaged me Alex Manley messaged me she's like it is written girl this is your day like I'm like yeah whatever I will see and then yeah then it happened and crazy freaky story but I personally didn't have a feeling because I obviously I worked hard for this race and I know I've been consistent and it would have been a dream come true but I had a terrible race itself I just really struggled breathing and it was horrible but I never wake up to a race thinking yeah I'm gonna win today it's always anything can happen in the race I know I've got a big chance i know i'm one of the favorites but i'm never that confident when i go to a race it's always i'm always very scared because i've never won such a big race especially the biggest monument i mean it's not something of it's something i dream of right it's not something you've always i'm gonna do it not one nothing all i want is to get onto the podium whether it's third or second no i'll just get onto the first step i'll just you know appear so yeah no it's So it wasn't something I expected to, we worked really hard for the team and I.

45:59So of course it's, it's something I really wanted deep down, but I didn't wake up saying I'm going to do it. But of course, if you think about all the, if you, if you suspect, like, how do you say it? If you believe in like small things like that, you have to pity things and you're like, maybe, maybe it can work. That would be cool. And actually the morning of Leisure, I had to ask my mom to send me a video of, cause they filmed my win at the Juro and they were screaming at the TV and the sprint. And actually replied to her, well, maybe I'll do the same today. And that was my message to my mom also in the morning of Dej.

46:32So I don't know. Oh, that's crazy. That's crazy.

46:36Robyn: And then when you won that, that must have been pretty crazy. How long did it take for you to realize, okay, no, actually, this is weird now? Or was that straight away you were thinking about all that stuff straight away? Or were you then rushed off to do the drug testing? Oh, no. I don't think I've cried this much ever. I was, all the videos is like me crying. Like I couldn't stop crying. Terrible. But yeah, of course it's a crazy moment. I think there's, I don't really remember much from as soon as I crossed the line, to be honest. The only thing I really do remember is when I sat down on the pavement and everyone was around me, but no one was talking and it was super quiet.

47:19And they kind of almost felt like they gave me my five minutes to just kind of let it sink in. That was really special. But no, I think I tried to find my teammates. That was the first thing. I found my photographer and my Spaniard. And I just wanted to hug someone that I feel connected with. And yeah, when I saw my teammates and how happy they were, that also really made me so happy. And just went backstage, which I have no idea how these things work. Like, you know, it's my first time doing this stuff. Going to the van where Pac-N-Denu was also changing. And when they were kind of telling me how much I deserve it and that I'm a great winner and that I worked so hard to get where I am today in such a short time, to hear that from champions like them, it's super special.

48:10It really, really meant a lot because you can be a champion yourself, but to make someone else feel that, to be able to be so humble, to be able to make someone else feel that they deserve it is something else. So I really appreciated those kind of words from people like them. Yeah, it just didn't sink in until really a few days later. It took quite a while. We didn't get a big celebration after that either. It was just a long afternoon. We finished quite late and people had to get home. So I went to my hotel room in the evening and I kind of had this, full myself doing this little stupid dance with my trophy.

48:45And I sent it to my family and I'm like, I'm having my own little party in my room. No worries. But yeah, I guess we'll celebrate it sometime in the year. It's just not the time yet. And at what point as well did you realise that you were the first African Monument winner? Because that itself is also like another layer of prestige. Yeah, I actually didn't know until I saw it on social media. Yeah, I really didn't know I was, to be honest. It just didn't sink in until a few days later until I've already read all this stuff and then I saw it and I saw how big and important this was. But still, when I was reading it, I was just like, okay.

49:27But it still didn't sink in. It was just really strange for me because I just never really pictured myself doing what I did. And even talking about it now is just so weird. It really is so weird. But yeah, it's really special. I mean, also seeing how proud Africa is, South Africa and my country and all around Africa, to be honest. And even Europeans and the girls in the peloton are so proud and happy for me. And that means a lot. It just, yeah, really means a lot. And someone like Girmal Bermay that also posted about it. So that also is cool. But I mean, I don't do it just for that. I just did it for the team and for myself and for the people that all the sacrifices I've had throughout the years, leaving my husband behind for three months.

50:10It's just not been the easiest time. And to know that all the sacrifices are worth it, because if I miss a dinner here and a dinner there and not being able to go see my friends, I always kind of tell them, well, in my head, I always, I hope I do something great, really great, so that it shows that not being there all the time for them is why I do what I did. So I'm really happy I could pull something off, not only for me, but for everyone around me that has to go through all the nonsense I have to go through in my daily life it's it's not easy being I think the husband of a professional athlete there's a lot of sacrifices and a lot of compromises so yeah I'm really proud I could do it for everyone else and then I think the big

50:52Robyn: thing for the rest of the season obviously you've probably got a lot of goals but you mentioned it before the world championships now there's a problem in that then you've got to choose which jersey you wear and although they look the same you know you wouldn't be wearing the Mauritius flag if you're wearing the world champs jersey but also it's in Africa as well does that add an extra sort of I need to win this race yeah um well firstly it wouldn't feel very different for me no jokes jokes um no of course it would be amazing um I think it would be great because then I wouldn't have bad comments anymore there's only one jersey now and no one can be the same as me because i would have both so uh no um i think for sure world championship in rwanda is super special like you said it's in africa it's special for us it's also special to have the europeans come to our side and kind of see why it's so hard and why do we struggle to go that side because they're already complaining that it's so far and so this and so that but it's time for them to also experience outside of things and i obviously my aim is to go to world championships but i'm in discussion now with the team and my federation to kind of get the best support possible to compete in the best to get a medal you have to have the best support in terms of having the right mechanics when you manage a you know ds coming with me um so i'm trying to gather that from the team so i would only go to world championships if i get the perfect support otherwise yeah it's it's difficult to compete against big teams or countries like Belgium and Netherlands if I don't have the right support.

52:28I've done it in the past, but I've gone to those races, like I said, with no intentions of performing. But now it's a completely different game. So I need to go there as prepared as those big countries are. So we are in the process and it's looking good so far. So yeah, that'll be great.

52:44Robyn: And then what are the rest of your goals for this season aside from that? Well, definitely to beat my last position at Tour of Britain in June. I definitely want to beat my one hour and a half delay on the first position. And then, yeah, there's the Tour de France, of course. We go there with big goals. So, yeah, of course, I want to win a stage of the Tour de France. And if it's the first stage, then why not wear the yellow jersey and try and keep it for as long as I can. But for sure, we go there with big intentions. So we'll just see how it goes. And your mum is Scottish, is that correct? That's what I've read on the internet.

53:24Yeah.

53:24Robyn: You do realise that that means that we can officially claim, as British citizens, we can officially claim your wins as our own wins. Fine, yeah, I'll take that. As long as, you know, I'm looking forward to going that side because I actually, I've been telling the team I want to eat black pudding and haggis. I can't wait for that. like a like a haggis pie and the team's just like yeah yeah you're crazy Kim I'm like no I want baked beans and black pudding for my breakfast so yeah we'll see yeah haggis is good especially if it's like a little a little bit black peppery then it's like because my dad's Scottish so yeah I've had a lot of experience with that and I hope you enjoy it oh so good no when I went to Glasgow for world champs last year um i went to the mountain bike world champs which was a bit out of town and there was this little bakery down the road and i had the haggis pie and oh my word it was so good so good i was like sending pictures to my mom and i was like oh look what i'm eating and she was so jealous but yeah my team thinks i'm crazy but i'm like oh i guess by that pudding is like freak in your country so just chill and then with your success and your continued success have you seen anything back home now that cycling is growing because of what you're doing because if it's not now i'm sure it will be as the years go by i've heard the support will be bigger i've heard that they want to invest more i for sure i've seen that the following is bigger the interest in the sport is much bigger but I am actually going to Mauritius next month to keep the jersey hopefully so I will then see I think there's a lot of people that wants to meet me and I'll probably make an appearance to just meet the people that have been backing me this whole time over social media that I don't get to meet in person I would love to meet all of them in person so I think I maybe will see with my own eyes but as far as I've heard from the federation and the sponsors of the federation and that they they want to support the cycling more and they've they see a future now and you know they realize that africa do belong in europe and that we just need the right structure i've been blessed to have the right structure and the right team and i think a lot of us do not have that structure and the opportunities that i've gotten but chance you just have to be in the right place at the right time we'll just have the guts to contact people and give it a shot so hopefully this will wake some people up in Africa and you know make them understand that there is a chance you must just invest in it and believe I think that's a great great note to end on very inspirational thank you very much Kim for joining the podcast thank you

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57:36Robyn: So head on over to dagmijan.co.uk. That's D-A-G-S-M-E-J-A-N.co.uk to find out more and use the code cyclist15 at the checkout to get 15 % off. Kim LaCourte, Pina everyone. What a great guest. And I really hope that she wins something in the next few weeks. And I mean, it would, in my opinion, be really good to see her win World Championships this year. For nothing else, but to stop people getting confused between the Mauritius flag and the UCI rainbow. I wouldn't put it past people. No. She should just put both of them on there. That would be a double up would be really, actually really cool. A full rainbow, a double rainbow.

58:18Robyn: Wow. Yeah, so Robin, let's get to the tour de France we'll do the men's one first because you know it's wrapping up have you had any big takeaways so far I mean we're now as this goes out on the Thursday people might listen to a bit afterwards but we basically know the result of most of the stuff going on we think my big takeaway is that Red Bull need to prioritize the youth in the team so Primoz Roglic has had a great run. No one's denying that. But you have Florian Lipowitz, who's performing exceptionally well and may or may not finish on the podium, depending on what Oscar only has got in store.

58:59And also they have Giulio Pellizzari, who I think is great for like the Giro. I think he would thrive there. Not just because it's home race, but whatever.

59:09Robyn: If they'd have gone into the Giro this year with the co-leader situation they've done the tour, Julia would have beaten Roglic that would have been amazing I would have loved to have seen that and then we were talking about this earlier so maybe they're rumoured to be on the verge of signing Graham Cravenopole just don't bother at this point just don't I don't know about you but I think just don't bother just go with the two lads you've got an Italian a young Italian and a young German two countries that have been without big GC rider for a while obviously Germany a lot longer than Italy but still very good for the sport especially in those countries and then Remco can go somewhere else maybe go to Ineos Roglic can go somewhere else he's clearly got some legs in him he hasn't crashed what are you doing?

59:54he's not and I'm like I'm really proud of him for not crashing because going into the race I was like I don't know like I'm a bit nervous like I'm expecting it but then he like cleared the first week now it's the second week and I'm like look at him go

1:00:08Robyn: yeah it wasn't even just the the amount of crashes in the first week the constant like like, discussion. And he, like, how? It's a new rugledge. So, yeah, he'll no doubt, like, be, continue to be a good rider. Do you know what is crazy there? What? By the time this goes out, he could have crashed and it'll be over. Yeah, and it'll be, it'll literally be our fault. Like, the curse would be insane. Oh, no, I really hope that doesn't happen. Oh, God. No, you've jinxed it, Will. Well done. So, I want your prediction now, because if people listen to this past, maybe Sunday, actually, it's going to go all the way to the line.

1:00:45Robyn: And I asked you about the maths before, earlier on today. Who do you think is going to win the green jersey? Is it going to be Jonathan Milan? Is it going to be Tadipigatra? Is it going to be Machu van der Poel? Well, here's the thing. So I also saw today that Tadipigatra was about eight points behind Lonnie Martinez in the mountains jersey. Yeah. So I think he's going to make potentially, obviously an effort to gain more time game stage wins and that in itself brings mountain points and by default then green jersey points for some reason i think we should just get rid of the green jersey points on the end of mountain stages just have the intermediate sprints but i think oh god i think you've either got to do that or you've got to sort of reclassify yeah because There's no way Taddy Pagaccia should be up there.

1:01:37It's for sprinters. Calm down. I'm going to say Jonathan Mouan in the hopes that he does it, but now I'm convinced that if we've cursed Roglic, then Pagaccia is going to sweep the podium, except for the white jersey.

1:01:53Robyn: Well, considering you've just said it would be one of those two, Mati Vanderpoort, you have the green jersey. It's yours. Well done. Yay! I would like to see that but I don't think Van Der Poel's got enough points because I feel like he'd have to win the last two stages and I don't think if he wins one I don't think he'll win the other but I think he's got a pretty good chance of winning the last one so who do you think is getting the green jersey? it's hard it's hard when you're on the receiving end of questions I think Pogaccio's going to win it because we'd have already had some of this action by the time this goes out and this has been spoken about a little bit but The tour this year was very much seemed to be like, they tried to make it something that Pogacar was not going to win because they put in like a load of climbs where he had his bad moments when Wienergaard won.

1:02:41Robyn: But those are the particular stages that he's absolutely 100 % going to win. And I think just from those, which would be Vontu, where he got dropped when Wienergaard won the stage, Jonas Wienergaard dropped him. And that was 2021 before Wienergaard didn't even win that year. and then the other one is Col de la Lose which is not the same side of the Col de la Lose yeah different approach however you know he's still gonna have to you can't go from I'm gone I'm dead and then not want to you know get back at it maybe that's where the Tour de France will be decided happens again if it happens again then the next time it's in he will really want revenge yeah but yes anyway that's the men's Tour de France it's been good if not a bit annoying that it seemed to be decided a bit early but that's just the way it goes sometimes and I'm going to bring this up now because this is a lot of the older generation from us spoilers Robin's quite young thank you but on Facebook man it's mainly Facebook but it's on everywhere people complaining about like the dominance and these are from people who live through Armstrong winning seven in a row Team Sky which everyone that's not British basically didn't want to watch cycling Tour de France those years like it happens in cycling it's not it's not like Rana Armstrong was a very interesting case, and maybe Sky was, if reports are to be furthered.

1:04:02That's the thing, though. You have, like, maybe everyone's just, like, a glutton for punishment. But I watch cycling, but I hate periods of dominance, and it feels like there's always a period of dominance. And I just wish the gap was closed a little bit. I hated the fact that the Tour de France was decided by the second week. I was like, okay, now what?

1:04:25Robyn: and that brings us on actually perfectly to the next topic because one tour de france that wasn't decided so early in 2024 was tour de france fam which was decided on the final day by four seconds on al d 'oriz mainly because them following's team let it down it should be really good this year partially because anyone that's sort of considered a favorite has also shown weakness like it seemed And for most of this year, well, the stage races this year, the following was just going to, you know, walk it in. She's got a team that actually wants to work for her now, which is kind of nice. But then also ST Works may be racing in a kit that looks exactly like FT's J-Sewers.

1:05:03Yeah, that's great.

1:05:04Robyn: And then she also lost, was it Burgos to Marlon Royce? Yeah. Which was like, oh my God. That was a surprise, to be fair. Let me pull it up. But then what happened there is, oh, maybe Royce, because Royce was climbing really well at the Espana Volta Femenina, whatever it's called these days. But then... It was the Tour de Suisse. Was it Swiss? Burgos might have been the one that Voltaing didn't do and Royce won. She didn't, no. Okay. Now we're there. Tour de Suisse. But then Royce went to the Giro d 'Italia women as the favourite, I think we would say, because of what happened there. And then she didn't win it.

1:05:43Robyn: Partially, you know, we can't put it all on her being unwell because, you know, you win the race, you win the race. well done longer borghini twice in a row but yeah that's weakness is a weakness you don't win the race is she gonna be back into her best form at the tour hopefully yeah it'd be nice to see her i i think if there's a competition this year it's between those two and not nevi doma but i could be proven wrong what do you think i know you're a big cassia fan i i love cassia i well i love all of these women to be fair i think they're so great for the sport I think they're all going to be watching each other and then here comes Sarah Gigante flying through she's definitely going to be on the podium I think Sarah Gigante and it'll be Gigante that would be Gigante her Jira was very impressive oh it was so good wasn't it it was crazy yes and we interviewed her I feel like we're sort of getting into that we're getting into that era when as women's cycling grows more you get more of the specialised riders is to get more of the like proper pure climber who's going to come.

1:06:49Robyn: And when we're not doing, you know, two time trials and there's three weeks of racing and a load of punchy stages to mix things up, that kind of rider could actually just go and win the tour, which is quite exciting. That is exciting, isn't it? Who do you think is winning? Vollering. I won't leave Demi. I believe. I also believe. I believe in LinkedIn's own Demi Vollering. Yeah, she's a great rider, but I would love to see it go down to the wire again. And I think that it has the capacity to be... Well, no, actually, I don't think it does anymore. I think it did have the capacity to be a Tour de France man kind of blowout.

1:07:24Robyn: But that was like, I feel like that was more the case last year. And then everything got ripped apart by following the crash. Yeah, that was also crazy. Yeah, you never know what's going to happen, which is a good thing. Which is why everyone complaining on Facebook about being boring, I'm not going to watch cycling anymore because one guy's winning a load of races. check out women's cycling doesn't happen that way guys no it starts in brittany on saturday so much more exciting and you better watch it please i think that's a good note to end on go on robin you say that again and we'll just press end you should watch the tour de france femme and women's cycling bye

1:08:13Thank you.