150. Brian Smith: National champ, racing with Lance, saying no to EPO, and snakes in showers

0:00James: I reckon a while ago the bike computer market looked all sewn up. There were two big players, end of. Kind of like how once upon a time group sets meant either Shimano or Campagnolo. So there's a wonderful synergy in the fact SRAM busted open the group set market back in 2006 and now SRAM's computer arm, Hammerhead, is blowing the doors off in the same way with the Hammerhead Karoo. My favourite thing about the Karoo is how much it's like a smartphone. So the touchscreen is really crisp and punchy, so data and mapping, which is way more like a phone's mapping than a classic by GPS, by the way.

0:34James: Those things are super clear. But unlike a phone, battery life is a huge 35 hours with GPS on and your ride recording, plus it's also way smaller. It's up there with the smallest head units, given what it does, and it does loads, from predicting gradients in real time to making routes on the fly to running apps like Spotify, and it will even tell you how fast you're going. There's a whole lot more that we'll get into in other episodes, but for anyone who just needs things now, now, now, head over to cyclist.co.uk and search Hammerhead Crew 3 to read our in-depth review and find out why we gave it our cyclist recommended badge of honour.

1:10James: Then head to hammerhead.io and use the promo code cyclist to get a free heart rate monitor with every purchase of a crew. Just make sure we put everything in the basket first before applying that promo code cyclist, promo code hammerhead.io is where you can find all the gear.

1:33James: Welcome back to the Cyclist Magazine podcast. I'm your host, James Spender, and joining me today will be Will, but Will is not here for this introduction again for various reasons, so I will just get straight on with it. Now, our guest today is Brian Smith. Brian cut his teeth in the 1980s at the School of Cycling Hard Knocks ACBB Athletic Club de Boulogne-Billancourt in Paris which was an amateur feeder club whose alumni include Jacques Oncatil, Stephen Roach and Pepe York you might have heard of those three before turning pro with the legendary British banana team in 1991 Three successful seasons followed for Brian including his first British national road race title which led to Brian catching the eye of the Motorola team bosses.

2:19James: He signed for the American Outfit in 1994 and went on to race alongside Lance Armstrong, Andy Hampston and Phil Anderson. Brian won his second National Road Race title that same year, but sadly, as we discussed in our chat, despite such success, he found himself disillusioned and on the outside of a sport he loved as cycling embroiled itself in its darkest doping years, something Brian wanted absolutely no part of. He hung up his racing wheels in 1996, but returned to the Pro Peloton in 2011 as Director Sportif for Enduro Racing, where he stayed as it evolved into MTN Quebeca, then Dimension Data, before finally retiring in 2014.

3:00James: Today, Brian can be found with a microphone in hand as a commentator and pundit for Eurosport, and among other parts of that job, Brian discusses his love of commentating and watching the lesser-known Tour of Hellas, a five-stage race around Greece, which this year takes place between the 6th and 10th of May. So keep an eye out for that one. There are probably few people with as much experience across the last four decades of cycling as Brian, and certainly few people, I think, who can talk so candidly about everything from being invited into the programme, that's air quotes, the programme by Lance Armstrong, to having a snake thrown into his shower by Shane Sutton, as you do.

3:39James: So get the kettle on, pin back your luggles and listen to this one.

3:49James: So Brian, where are you joining us from? I know that you are about to start work. I say about to start work. In a couple of months, you're kind of working with the Tour of Hellas. I'm assuming you're not in Greece at the moment doing any kind of scouting of the route.

4:03Brian Smith: I only wish I was there, to be honest but then again when I was when I went there I flew into Athens last April to do my first tour of the Hellas and I came out of the airport into the van I got collected by a few of the kind of locals that were working on the race and TV production and it was raining and I and I said to them I didn't come all the way here for it to rain but believe it or not they call it kind of spring so in spring time kind of early April and one of the stages last year was cancelled during the stage because they can't deal with the, you know, there's a lot of standing water on the road and they thought it was a little bit dangerous.

4:41Brian Smith: As back here in Britain, the UK, or especially Scotland, would think otherwise it was okay, it was nice and safe. But yeah, they're kind of a little bit kind of flash flooding. So yeah, I am in Bromley in the North Kent. I know it well. I'm not even in Scotland. So yeah, I'm in the kind of London area, which I have been for the last 20 years. But yeah, most people, when they think of Greece, they think of islands, they think of sandy beaches, sunshine, you know, hot, gyros, you know, the local delicacies and things like that. And yeah, not many people. When I went to Tour of Hellas last year, it took my breath away.

5:22Brian Smith: It's all on the mainland. And most people go, yeah, go to holiday in Greece, where you go, Greek islands, you know, Corfu, Santorini or whatever it is. but nobody ever goes to the mainland and the mainland still is beautiful. And yeah, every step there's some sort of historic tempo or ancient artefact. So it was really nice.

5:44James: So that's what I was going to ask you because you've commentated on races around the world and I know that for really big ones you kind of get presented with a sort of almanac, a kind of Bible of stuff about the route which can fill that time when nothing much is happening. I'm assuming in Greece, there is an awful lot of depth to that. It's not just chateaus and cheeses and local wines. There's myths. There is, like you say, every other place is a historical site of significance. Have you kind of got your head around that? Have you got an incredibly good working knowledge of local kind of Greek folklore in the last several thousand years of civilization?

6:24Brian Smith: Well, I was at a steep landing curve when I got there. and luckily I was traveling with some of the TV production and they were actually giving me a lot more that I took into my commentary. Normally, I don't kind of step over the line. When I say the line, I class myself as a pundit and I always think, stick to what you think you're good at and then you'll be okay. And from time to time, I get contacted, can you do the commentary for that? And I have to say to them, do you know I'm not a commentator, I'm a pundit. and I've did this a few times I've done it for the Czech tour as well so Declan Quigley got in contact with me he said he's been contracted by the Flanders Classics he did the Tour of the Hellas the year before there's an opening for a commentator would you do it and there's always a bit of apprehension because I am not a commentator I am a pundit and it's a totally different role altogether some people can do it better than others they cross over but I've never really done a lot of that but I'll give it a good go.

7:25Brian Smith: It's just one of these things with history. I never did it in school. But going to the Tour of the Hellas, I quickly learned that there's a lot of good things that's happened in history. And I wish sometimes my Greek history is a little bit better or 100 % better than it was before I went to the Tour of the Hellas. And there's a lot of interesting, really interesting stuff that I learned. The race has changed a little bit. it's gone from because the Tour of the Hellas it meant nothing to me I'm like where's that? So I had to kind of Google it and find out where it was and things like that and there's a bit of history to it you know they're looking to go up a level to Pro Series and where it was sitting in the calendar they've actually moved it into May now the start of May it's gone right up against the Grand Portenza in Bulgaria for the Giro d 'Italia so they attracted two World Tour teams last year and I was in communication with the teams throughout the winter and they said the day didn't work for them because logistical wise, if you've got a Grand Portenza, you send a whole kind of fleet of vehicles and then you've got another fleet of vehicles waiting in Italy.

8:36Brian Smith: So that's kind of like having two races at once. So logistic wise for teams, it didn't really kind of work for them. So it doesn't look as if they might get any World Tour teams going there, which is a shame because the UCI are putting them under pressure to have World Tour teams there for that kind of level of race. So, you know, how else can they get that level up? Well, it's good hotels, good food. The roads are quiet. Great racing. Safe environment. And the teams that I actually went last year, Peter Kenyuk and Matt White said, I tell you what, it's a terrific race. I'd love to go back, but the logistics and the time just doesn't work for us this year.

9:11Brian Smith: Keep us in mind for 2027. So, I think the race has definitely got legs. But the one thing I would say about, in its infancy, I went to the Tour of Turkey. I went here with Carlton Kirby and we decided to take our bikes. And Carlton took his bike. He was a bit slower than me, but we went out kind of together. And people were looking at us. I know we look, you know, middle-aged men or mammals, they call us. And even in the race when we're driving, you know, the locals were kind of looking. They would be, you know, wondering what was happening. It was a kind of culture where there weren't that many cyclists in Turkey.

9:47Brian Smith: Of course, here in the UK, we've got years and years of history and clubs and all this sort of stuff. They have not a lot out in Turkey. And it was, you know, what are they doing? What is it? And I got a little bit of that in Greece, that there was a few engaged with it, but the culture of cycling is not huge. So they don't have a lot of depth of culture in the country. And I think you have to start somewhere. And the Tour of the Hellas, hopefully, is kind of starting to engage more with, you know, locals and maybe attract more riders or more people to ride bikes and maybe can race. So I'm hoping that the more attraction we can get to the Tour of the Hellas, especially with the locals, we might see more people riding bikes.

10:32Brian Smith: But it's a great place to go if you're looking for a place to go to ride your bike that's not Mallorca and full of locals or not down in Calpe at the moment. because you see all these videos online. It's like how these pro riders are able to train because they're so busy with cyclists. New York is so busy. But yeah, there's not a lot of traffic on the road for what I say. So good roads. Yeah, I think it's a place where you could get some good training because obviously it's great weather. I wouldn't go there in the summer though because it's...

11:05James: Baking hot.

11:06Brian Smith: Yeah, baking hot.

11:09James: Yeah, I've done a fair bit of cycling in Greece actually for Cyclist Magazine and have been over because where the Tour of Hellas starts is a town called, I'm going to mangle this, I've written this out phonetically, Ioannia, which is on a lake, is that right? So that's the beginning of the first stage. And then from there, there's an incredible mountain range, isn't there, that goes up towards Albania. So like you say, it's an absolutely amazing place to ride and something that I've been there and it makes me kind of go, why aren't more people coming here riding their bikes like you say going to my yorka and stuff it's it's great but it's it's busy and in a way you've kind of seen it all before i'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's it's a well-documented place there's something kind of almost untouched about greece i think particularly from a cycling point of view and particularly from the kind of

12:01Brian Smith: mountains point of view well you look at last year with mark cavendish okay he had his coach that lived out there and you know he was going out there and training up to the Tour de France and even for me looking at it why has he chosen Greece? And you know after being there myself and experiencing what you have done James it's I was generally blown away with it you know not just the fact that it's quietish roads you know it wasn't busy there was good surface and you know it's just it's one of these places that maybe is not thought about when you're going on a holiday everybody thinks of Greece as that summer holiday and that you know sitting on the beach and things like that but you know it's you saw as you go north into Albania you know it was kind of hilly you know with the Giro d 'Italia being there and you know there's a lot of places that Greece is massive it's not a small country it's it's a pretty big big country yeah just some of the the towns that I was in and you know everybody goes to kind of Santorini and things like that for the sunsets and I've done that many, many years ago and things like that but there's a lot of places in Greece that get perfect sunsets.

13:14Brian Smith: It's just spectacular. We were driving the last year and I never asked them. They were stopping in some of the headlands. It's stunning. It really is. And as you said, James, you're one person I know now that's went out there and ridden your bike. Most people think of just going to the popular places. I wouldn't say that the local hotels are kind of geared up for cycling but that can easily change when you're in carlton

13:41James: where are your bikes there did you have any uh altercations with stray dogs that's the one thing that as a kid i found this book right i went a bit of a tenuous story but went home at the weekend saw my dad he showed me this book which was called richard's bicycle book do you remember that it was like a kind of how to repair um a bike manual a bit like a kind of haynes manual from back in the sort of 70s by a guy called Richard Ballatine. And famously in it was a bit about how to kill a dog. So just in case you came across a dog as a cyclist, this was how you could dispatch it, which made absolutely no sense to me at the time.

14:19James: In a way, still doesn't. But then, having gone to Greece, I can remember one moment riding Cephalonia, being chased by a dog and thinking like, okay, I really hope the water bottle squirt works. Because if it doesn't, I don't know what's going to happen because there's no one else around here. And that was my sort of like, the one pitfall of cycling somewhere which is so brilliantly deserted is, yeah, you can come across some wildlife, right?

14:44Brian Smith: I think Turkey for me is worse. Okay. There seems to be a lot, a lot. But yeah, you do come across that. We come across that in Scotland. There's a lot of tricks that you can do. As long as you're not last in the group, you should be okay. so yeah if there's only two of you then as long as you're faster than the person next to you then yeah you'll be fine so yeah

15:08Will: get out with Carlton

15:09Brian Smith: get out with Carlton yeah I'm safe if there's dogs there most of the dogs that have chased me have obviously been fit enough to to try and get away but later in my in my career you know I used to have seagulls kind of fly past me I was going that slow so you know I think you know having I'm not going to say go out on a bike with a a stake in the back of your your back pocket and just throw it to it you know what I mean a stake or your leg but yeah there's a little bit of dogs but then saying that two years ago my brother was out in Scotland riding and he came round this corner and there was a hen on the left hand side and then he clocked the other hens on the right hand side and it's a bit like sheep as soon as they get flustered they want to join their mates and it tried to join his mates through my brother's front wheel.

16:02Brian Smith: So three broken ribs and a broken collarbone later. So it can happen. Yeah, stray dogs is a little bit of a problem. But yes, one of these problems that as long as you're not on your own and you're faster than another person, then you're nothing to worry about.

16:15Will: I mean, a kangaroo took out Jay Vine and tore it under the other day.

16:18Brian Smith: Yes, and he's fractured his scaphoid. So I just found out that this morning. So not only Mikhail Bjerg was taken out, I think he was the one who kind of hit it, Jay Vine, it came out this morning that he's fractured his scaphoid. And that's something I did way back in 96. It's just a small bone. You don't think anything of it.

16:39James: Where's the scaphoid?

16:41Brian Smith: In your hand.

16:41James: In your hand, yeah.

16:43Brian Smith: It happened to me when I was out training and I came to this roundabout where I was doing road works and I thought, right, road works, there are a lot of trucks that, you know, maybe drop tees and things like that. So I was only doing five mile an hour knowing it was going to be slippy. And down I came and I got my hand down first because normally my knees and the elbows to protect me because when you crash they're the worst things that you can get but you're not normally quick enough to get your hand down so I got my hand down and all my body weight went down in my hand so I broke my scaphoid in the Olympic year got a cast and I rode with you know tri-bars and I remember going to America and riding my first race of course when you're riding the first race you've got this cast on I threw it away to this one unit side of the road and said I'm fine I'm fine next lap I was getting it back because it's just throbbing it's just the adrenaline and things like that.

17:29Brian Smith: So it'll take a while for that to heal. It's one of these small bones in your hand. It's just rest. It'll heal it.

17:38James: One of those things, yeah. You don't know how crucial it is until you bust it. But without changing focus a little bit away from various animals that cyclists have hit, and we love animals on this show. I should just point that out, especially dogs. Although they did remind me of a photographer who oddly got taken out by a badger in Richmond Park. so there's a badger there's an animal he's riding at dusk and it went across in front of him and he broke his arm and the day I met him he was just out of the hospital arm and a cast and I said George how did you break your arm and he said I hit a badger on my bike in Richmond Park last night so that's a story I never thought I'd hear so I can add that to the menagerie of animals

18:16Brian Smith: well there's loads of things that one thing in Scotland you had to watch was rabbits oh yeah rabbits running across the road because we had a lot of back roads where you can down some of these descents and a rabbit runs on your front wheel. I saw a bird, so I was doing a two-up time trial with a rider and in front of me, I was concentrating on the wheel in front. We were going fast, super fast. This bird flew into his back wheel and just disintegrated. So yeah, animals and cycling don't always work. I was living in Arizona, so we had snakes.

18:50James: Yeah, right.

18:52Brian Smith: At the side of the road. They come onto the road at the side and you have to worry about them. In fact, I was in Australia one time riding a Sun Tour and during the stage, one of the motorcyclists had found this brown snake. It's dead, obviously, it's like the road had been run over, but he'd wrapped it around the back of his, kind of aero of the motorbike. So we were, I was, I'd crashed in the race and I was in the shower, half in, half out, because I was trying not get the, you know the bandages I had in my arm I had about 17 stitches in my arm so I was trying not to get this too kind of I was half in next minute I went kind of quiet and Shane Sutton was on the team and I thought this is something alright something's happening they'd obviously the motorcycle outriders were staying in the same Metellus as we were he got the snake he brought it into the room and he fed it over the top of the shower and into the shower this brown it's about six foot long and he fed it over and I clocked it at the side and obviously came up but imagine if I was totally immersed in the shower and he'd put this this brown snake how the brown snake you don't think about these things

20:07James: how the brown snake could have got there in the first place but to see this thing coming there oh jeez and it is that Australia's most venomous snake and one of the most venomous snakes in the world tell me about it yeah trying to scare the hell out of me

20:20Brian Smith: and yeah canny Scott never got me I was half in half out and I knew I knew what they were trying to do but yeah there's so much of um you know things happen and you know you hear a lot of stories but yeah yeah I think

20:35James: the snake one wins out but that is actually that does lead us into um somewhere I'd like to go and have a chat to you about is your career right because you're Brian Smith voice on telly Brian Smith part of the organization pushing the tour of Hellas but also you know you started in this sport as a racer and you did that in the 90s and you mentioned earlier that you were at um a acbb um the athletic club which is kind of like an amateur or well tell tell us what the importance of that club was and what it was like going there in was at the end of the 80s or the early 90s you would have been there and how that transitioned into being a pro end of the 80s i can't tell you

21:13Brian Smith: too much because that's that's a chapter of my book okay i still got to finish it i was um i was actually talking to Serge Powell's last week about what I'm trying to do I've written almost 120 ,000 words I got asked by Bloomsbury getting into just before lockdown they'd like to do a book with me and I was kind of taken back a little bit and I said really and I said right I tell you what I don't want any help I don't want anybody to help me I want to go and do it myself I just wanted the experience doing it myself so it kind of starts with the early years and the reason why I've not finished it because lockdown is out, right, we're not doing any, we're not publishing anything at the moment.

21:51Brian Smith: And I kind of forgot about it and my mum had, she died in lockdown and I got to read a couple of the chapters to her because there's certain things in there that she didn't really know, you know, how tough it was and, you know, the fact that I had bulimia and just certain things that I thought, right, she needs to know, because that was my motivation to get it done before she died. but then my other motivation now is to get it finished. I just lost my twin sister in late November as well from cancer. So the motivation is there to get this done and I've been in contact with Bloomsbury and get it.

22:29Brian Smith: It's just something I've kind of forgotten about and obviously you guys know that sometimes, I wouldn't say it's writer's block, but you have to be in the right frame of mind to write a book. But when I first started, I was flying. It was like being on a bike again. I was just like writing, writing, writing and to go back to the ACBB, I was pretty much, I got a phone call when I was studying computing science at Paisley Uni. It was from Robert Miller saying he's got a place for me in ACBB and I was like, need an answer and I've said, well, yes, that's without consulting my parents or anything like that.

23:03Brian Smith: I think about it now, my son's going to be 18 in March and he's still a little baby to me. I've got two boys, one's in at football, one's into rugby union and love them both but it's that age thing at 18 I went to my first Commonwealth Games at 19 I was going to to live in in Paris and I remember going out that that winter I think it was 1987 I was out that winter and then I was telling people that I was going to ACBB and they were they were pretty much putting bets on me ah your last two weeks because some of the other kind of Scottish riders had gone over to France and then returned back they couldn't hack it you talked about that that book i probably didn't know because believe it or not i just hate touching bikes and doing anything with bikes my dad used to do everything all i pretty much had to do sometimes is just blow up my tires regarding food and nutrition my mom did all that you know i look back now i do pretty much all the cooking in my house now and i enjoy it but at the time i did nothing did nothing to my bike i do bike fits at a local place but anything needs done to i take it down to the workshop.

24:14Brian Smith: I hate footering and chaining things and bikes. It's just not me. And regarding making meals and things like that, again, it's one of these situations I've never done it. So I didn't know how to do anything at all. So all I was told to was to get a flight to Charles de Gaulle. I went to Paris. I told him to get picked up. So this guy, I saw this guy standing there with the ACVB top on. So I went over there and he shook my hand. He's probably the biggest hands I've ever I've ever seen in my life you know he's a swan year massive hands that's what I can remember and he said something to me and I was just like don't understand so he took me out and it was a ACBB Athletic Club Boulogne Bullion Court branded up car with a roof rack and things like that so threw my bag in there he drove me into Paris and we drove into this service course through big gates parked the car up we went in And he kind of introduced me to a few people.

25:14Brian Smith: And I was given a bag, big grey bag full of kind of clothing. I was given a bike. And this was in the left. As soon as you went into the place, in the left, it was the offices and the service corps where the mechanics and things like that were. Into the right, there was a kind of communal area. And then through, there was a kind of kitchen with showers. And then there was three rooms. And the three rooms were, there was two bunk beds in each of them. and like a metal cupboard to put your stuff in and bars in the windows, right? It was a converted police station, the service course. But the thing is, you didn't look out the window because you look out the window and there's these big concrete buildings in front of you so you couldn't see anything.

25:59Brian Smith: So as depressing as it sounds, that was where home was going to be. Yeah, it was a place where you went and there was an American there, Lauren Stroach was there Stephen's brother younger brother but he he kind of went to stay with his brother for a bit so he wasn't there constantly Tony Davis an Australian so there was about four or five of us so we used to ride out towards Versailles and it was probably it'd be a good half hour to get out into the you know the rolling countryside yeah and it was chaotic I always remember riding back in after a training round into Paris and it was just chaotic and then of course your Longshaw just around the corner where you'd go there there's about 3.6km circuit around there and you'd go there just in some days off where you just wanted maybe an easy ride the day before a race or you wanted to do some efforts and things like that but yeah you were kind of treated a little bit like a professional bike rider it was kind of strange experience although you're still an amateur it was one of these clubs where years before kind of synonymous with Peugeot and of course there's a lot of top riders that had gone there, British riders that had gone there and went on to professional contracts and I thought, right, I'd been recommended to go, so I'm going to go to live in Paris.

27:22Brian Smith: But yeah, I hadn't cooked at all. I remember I thought, right, I'm getting a wee bit homesick. I'm going to do mince and totties. So I tried to do it. So I got some mince and I'm pretty sure, I don't think it was even beef. I think it could have been horse. right yeah but I was just cooking it and it just wasn't it didn't look right it just wasn't going the same as what my mum did so we didn't have kind of mobile phones in these days so there was a phone box so you had to save up your frank one frank coins so every Sunday night I'd go and you know phone home and I was talking to my mum I said I was trying to make mince and totties and things like that I told her what I did and I said oh you missed you never put any you know oxal cube you never brown the mince right or you never did the the onions and things like that and I'm like so it was a stiff stiff learning curve for me to learn how to kind of cook for myself and do things right of course you know you do the basics and I even went there with I had a small can of larder where I kept my stuff there but every so often one of the staff members would come in and say right that's not good for you that's not but one of the things he took away was the potatoes.

28:40Brian Smith: They're not good for you. Pasta. All pasta. Pasta and rice, no potatoes. I'm like, I love my potatoes. I love my mash and things like that. So, yeah, it was all kind of beefsteak and, yeah, so it was a real strong learning curve from even going there. We went, as soon as you kind of settled in, we went down towards Bayon for a training camp. So you're in the car. It was about a good 10-hour drive in the cars all the way down to Bayon. And I can remember racing down there and a lot of the races and overall of all the races I've got a trophy where I was the king of the mountains overall for every it was like just individual training races where you'd get two, three hundred riders all down there training camps all racing together but you went there and of course you had the habits and at a dinner table they give you potash soup so you have your soup and there's bread on the table so what do us Brits do?

29:35Brian Smith: You dip your bread in your soup and eat it. So they were all taking the mickey out there. Oh, a potage sandwich. You know, a soup sandwich. They never eat the whole bits of the breads. They take the centre of the dough out there. So, I still do that now. We had a baguette on Sunday and I don't do it for the kids. As soon as I take the centre out, they get the bread and eat it. I'm trying to discard it. I'm trying to take the kind of the soft part out but what they were doing was they were rolling it up and flicking it at you and it wasn't nice there was you know you were a foreigner and their team and things like that and you know it wasn't easy at all but yeah when you come back to Paris I never for the first year believe this or not I get forced to go in but I never went into the Champs -Élysées or anything I was not a tourist I was there for it they couldn't believe it I came to Paris and I could see the Eiffel Tower and things like that, but I never went in.

30:40Brian Smith: I never went and did this. And the second year, because I was there for two years, 88 and 89, they forced me. They took me in and showed me Paris. But the first year, I didn't.

30:52Will: Long Sean was where I was telling about that circuit.

30:54Brian Smith: You'd go there and you'd be all in your ACBB kit, which is kind of grey and orange and white. And you'd just be sitting there with one of the other foreign riders that was with you doing a couple of hours, maybe in an afternoon, maybe on a Saturday. And there'd be nobody behind you. And then all of a sudden you look behind, there'd be 20 riders just sitting on you. And then the next lap, there'd be 40. Next lap, there'd be 60 riders. And at some points we kind of played, right? I tell you what, we're not having this because that's all they were wanting to do. They just want to sit behind you and see if they can kind of keep up with you.

31:33Brian Smith: So a few times we went there and I said, right, we're going to start attacking them. Do the old one-two. So we start attacking and then they would look at me and then they would chase the person I was with and then I would attack. This went on for 10, 15 minutes and we couldn't get rid of them.

31:52James: We were going out for an easy ride and all of a sudden it was turning into a race. Sounds like Regent's Park in London.

31:58Brian Smith: Yeah, that's what it was like. They saw someone that thought, right, they're good riders, we're going to sit on receiver who can keep up with them and yeah turned into a race so you go out there for an easy ride and if the locals annoy you then yeah you can put a bit of sweat on

32:15James: i reckon a while ago the bike computer market looked all sewn up there were two big players end of kind of like how once upon a time group sets meant either shimano or campagnolo so there's a wonderful synergy in the fact sram busted open the group set market back in 2006 and now sram's computer arm, Hammerhead, is blowing the doors off in the same way with the Hammerhead Karoo. My favorite thing about the Karoo is how much it's like a smartphone. So the touchscreen is really crisp and punchy, so data and mapping, which is way more like a phone's mapping than a classic bike GPS, by the way. Those things are super clear.

32:52James: But unlike a phone, battery life is a huge 35 hours with GPS on and your ride recording, plus it's also way smaller. It's up there with the smallest head units given what it does. And it does loads from predicting gradients in real time to making routes on the fly to running apps like Spotify. And it will even tell you how fast you're going. There's a whole lot more that we'll get into in other episodes. But for anyone who just needs things now, now, now, head over to cyclist.co.uk and search Hammerhead Crew 3 to read our in-depth review and find out why we gave it our cyclist recommended badge of honor.

33:26James: Then head to hammerhead.io and use the promo code cyclist to get a free heart rate monitor with every purchase of a crew. Just make sure we put everything in the basket first before applying that promo code cyclist. Promo code hammerhead.io is where you can find all the gear.

33:50James: after acbb you move to banana team banana falcon sponsored by the banana group which i don't know seems like the perfect perfect sponsor for a cycling team is a consortium of banana importers so i don't know you can tell me more about that if you like but i was thinking jumping ahead to when you signed for Motorola in is that the 94 season? 94 yeah. How does that how do those two things compare in your mind now so imagining yourself age 18 away from home finding you know really hard just to kind of look after yourself let alone being thrown really in the deep end with some pretty cutthroat racing I'd imagine to then signing for what was at that moment that was an incredible team motorola you had uh annie hampson on the armstrong hing happy um sean yates is that the moment where you're like i've made this this is this is what it's been building up for and were they happy was that a happy season compared to you know the grind of the amateur world or was it its own difficult season yeah i don't think i've ever thought i've

34:58Brian Smith: I've ever made it even in commentary as a bike rider I've never thought right I've made this I was always wanting more and I was always trying to do my best and I think going back to ACBB and just the French teams were going through a bit of a lull that connection to Peugeot had gone for ACBB I think in the whole of France maximum six riders got contracts I never won I got a lot of good places I ended up riding for others and I can remember you know these guys one of them Fabien Pongtoglou and there's a guy Bonnie I'd helped him win you know they were coming up to me and hugging me after the race and kissing me and things like that as the French do because I'd helped him win a race but I didn't help myself when I was there I was always getting good places but I never I never won if I'd have won a couple of events then possibly I'd have got that contract but they had a connection to Carrera through Stephen Roach So two of them went on to Carrera and I think in the whole of France, six got this.

36:01Brian Smith: I never got this. I was thinking, do I stay another year or do I try and get a contract for back home domestic scene? And I chose the domestic scene. So I came back for one year and my main goal was to get a pro contract and that's what I got. I think I'm impressed in the milk race. I can remember when I was riding across this moor, I think it was Chris Walker or something like that, came up to me and said, you're just killing everybody here. And I thought I was just riding normal. And then I can remember coming out of Whitby, Shane, who was in the yellow jersey at the time, and he was kind of drifting back from the front.

36:40Brian Smith: He was finding it hard, and I gave him a wee push. And then he came up to me after the climb, he kind of glanced to see who it was, and then he came up to me after the climb and said, we should have a wee chat. So the wee chat was potentially joining a team for, the banana team for the following year. So that was the 91 season. And of course, even getting into that team, they were all hitters. You know, the team at that time with Chris Walker and Shane Sutton and Chris Lillow-White, you know, Rob Holden. There's so many top riders in this team. And, you know, people were saying to me, because quite a few years before, Percy Belton had kind of talked to me about maybe kind of joining them.

37:21Brian Smith: I was 19, I was probably too young and I didn't want to turn pro at that time but it felt in 91 that this was the time. So I was racing and I was racing quite well. I wanted to get in the milk race team and I failed that year. They went to the milk race and dominated it. Chris Walker won it and I never got a look in for getting on the team. And of course, two or three weeks after the milk race was the national championships and I can remember going to the national championships in Shropshire in Newport and I looked at the circuit and I wasn't impressed with the circuit around Newport it just wasn't hard enough I didn't think I remember Keith Lambert said to me 130 miles because the National Pro Championships they're only 30 odd riders so they're nowhere to hide maybe a lot easier if there's 150 but 30 odd riders he said to me look 30 odd 40 riders around here and this circuit it gets to you I've done it myself is going to be hard enough.

38:24Brian Smith: So I was a bit, I thought I was being kind of sacrificed in the race. I can remember rolling up and Keith Lambert was asked, what one of your boys is going to win today? And he just kind of laughed it off. I didn't think for one moment, I wish I could have that opportunity, but there's so many top riders there that I thought, and I remember getting myself in the breakaway and then it was brought back. And I remember there's another group went and I said right whoever moves next I'm going with them and it was Malcolm Elliott Malcolm Elliott and Dave Rayner attacked and I went with them and I got a free ride because I had I think Chris Lilloway up the road and I think Chris Walker so they took me across so I got there and then because Malcolm Elliott was there he's you know strong sprinter and things like that Keith Lambert said to me right there's about three or four laps to go and he said right attack and give it 100 % don't even look back just attack in this drag and I thought right I'm just using it I'm just cannon fodder I'm just being used here but I'll do as I'm told which I always did so I attacked and gave it everything next minute there's a group come across including Keith Reynolds Dave Rayner was there and it was good for us because we'd get rid of Malcolm who's probably one of the favourite strong sprinter and there was five of us so then with about two laps to go there was Dave Rayner attacked and I went to go with him and Keith Reynolds my team mate It was going at the same time.

39:51Brian Smith: And I immediately sat down and allowed my teammate to go. Because that's the sort of probably rider I was with. I wasn't maybe cutthroat enough, but I wasn't. And that's something I talked to Pippa about as well and Sean Kelly. The difference between these kind of top riders and me, you know, I was a good enough rider, but I just wasn't cutthroat enough. I always tended to do the right thing. So I was, of course, sitting on, I think it was Ben Luckwell and Steve Dowse, at the time so I was getting a free ride just sitting there next minute they're coming back Dave Rayner and Reynolds I thought they were going to go first and second they're coming back and I'm like this has gone on to the bottom of the hill I think Keith had cracked a little bit Dave didn't want to to him to the finish and when he came back the only thing I could do was attack and I attacked and I went on to win the race a lot of people were maybe shocked but my first year I became national champion I was so proud of that but again it's going to difficult one because I'm going to say it now I was embarrassed and that's hard to say why was that

40:56James: because you felt like you weren't somehow deserving of it or you'd let somebody down or something why

41:00Brian Smith: you why would you feel like that I just think that I maybe wasn't good enough at that time I think it the race played out into my hands was I the best rider in that bike race no possibly not but I won the national championship but being a new kid on the block I was the only new domestic professional that year the only one and then getting into that with the best team the best riders and I won it and I think I deserved to win it but I was a little bit embarrassed

41:30Will: what were the other people saying to you was there anything that they said that sort of made you feel like oh maybe I shouldn't be winning this

41:37Brian Smith: no there was there was not everybody in the team congratulated me put it that way there was a little bit of kind of jealousy and things like that. But I can just remember at the time, and again, this is all going to be documented in the book. It was just a bit of a whirlwind that I'm a first year pro and I've just won the national. I don't know what to do. And Keith Lambert was saying to me, try and take it in. Of course, I never took it in. I didn't know what was going on. You know, looking down, you see the national champs jersey on you. And it's like, I look at pictures back now, even the finishing picture I'll look at where the rooster the mechanic is hanging out the window and I've got my hands in the air and my face is just like plain there's not a lot of reaction in my face because I think it was a little bit of shock but the embarrassment side of the thing came when I went to the Grand Prix Camiore which was a few weeks after it was in July and I was national champion and I can remember we were we went for a ride and this guy this bronze Adonis was riding on a mountain bike and he came over to us it was Mario Cipollini riding a mountain bike just a wee pair of football shorts on all bronzed up and things like that and he'd finished his season because he'd done so well in the Giro d 'Italia that was his season so he was just like kicking around and came over to say hello to us and things which I thought was quite nice and I remember standing at the start line and a lot of the riders just were kind of looking and pointing.

43:13Brian Smith: And I was like, and I think one of those, I forget, there were some good riders in that race and one of them actually came across and actually said, what was that jersey? What is that jersey? And I'm not Italian speaking, but I had to explain to them what the jersey was because they didn't know and that's where they're pointing. And that was, I think the embarrassing thing for me was that it stands out. when I won it the second time because I thought right I want to win it again to get that feeling again and have that good feeling instead of being a little bit embarrassed

43:51James: and also in the intervening years you were runner up right so it wasn't just that you went and won it again you also almost won it three more times

44:00Brian Smith: yeah I was second Sean Yates in Scotland in Carmarnock I should have won that one but Sean was just a bit too strong we were away for about 80 or 90 miles and we never had much more than a minute to the group behind us who were all good riders they got to within I think 20 odd seconds and Sean Yates just turned around to me and he used to call everybody boy right boy it's now or never and I went okay now and it's a case of just we're not riding a two up time trial all the way in the national championships and getting caught in the last few kilometres so we went to the finish I led out the sprint I went too early and he crept past me and won the one good thing about it is that jersey went to the Tour de France the national jersey nice

44:49James: yeah

44:49Brian Smith: so people knew what it was then and of course that was the that was the big year that Yeatsy got yellow as well so yeah all my family was there I was gutty second and then Malcolm beat me by half a wheel in Isle of Man and I went back there for Motorola in 94 and won it again and I got that feeling, that proud feeling and I deserved it and I was national champion and I deserved to be national champion but when you are a national champion you kind of stand out from everybody else especially in the races so it's and the banana days I never really kind of trained in my national champs kit

45:30Will: I was one of these I think it would have helped if the national champions jersey wasn't basically the Dutch flag in the middle of the white

45:38Brian Smith: Maybe if it had a British flag, yeah, across the middle. But I quite like the red, white, and blue stripes. I think it's nice and simple. White jersey with it. I thought it was nice and simple. But it was always something, you know, let's be honest, it was always something I wanted to do. National Champions at UCI points, and it's all in the back of my mind, get these points as a stepping stone to try and get pro in Europe. and I can remember we were in South Africa riding the bowling bank tour and everybody was staying for a few days afterwards to have a holiday and I couldn't because I had a meeting with Motorola in Brussels to go to when I came back and they were trying me why are you why are you leaving you know this is a chance to have a holiday why are you leaving and I couldn't tell them I couldn't tell them that I had a meeting and possibly you know riding for Motorola and of course that happened I came back and they decided to take a bit of a kind of punt on me and I can remember going to the you know we met in Como the first time we all met in Como there was you know new kid on the block Hinkap and Lance was there he was world champion Raul Alcala Phil Anderson Steve Bauer this was a hitter's team they're all good riders and then I was there and you know the training you know it was great I really had a good time when I went there.

47:04Brian Smith: I won their first race in Europe. I went to the Giro d 'Italia there in 94 to help Andy Hampston. And it was tough. You know, that was the kind of EPO era. You know, Berzin won the race. I'd never heard of this guy, Pintani, who in the last week won two stages and finished in the podium. They beat Miguel Indurain. And it was just so, so tough. 22 stages in 21 days, no rest days. And, you know, only 90-odd riders finished that year's Giro. It was a really, really tough one. but you know I thought I'd be kept on and I didn't I had a one year contract and they decided that you know I didn't fit into their plans which went against what Henny Kuyper who was the team manager at the time I heard him shouting and bawling at Jim Malkiewicz on my behalf you know he's won a race he's national champion he's finished his first grand tour which is a really tough one why wouldn't you?

47:54Brian Smith: So they were just going in a different direction Andy Hampstead was going off to Benesto even Andy didn't want to take me I was talking to TVM at the time. TVM were saying to me, why should we hire you when we can get two Dutch riders to ride for the jersey in their back? You know, I mean, this was before minimum payments and things like that. So it was a kind of sucker punch for me. But yeah, it was, when I look back at it, it was tough, but really good memories, really good memories.

48:21James: And as you alluded to, I'm assuming it must have been a big culture shock coming from racing in Britain, domestic team, albeit getting some really great results and racing with some really high caliber riders to then going and racing the World Tour in the middle of the 90s, which we all now know was a period where EPO was rife and we're two years, three years, well, four years when you're racing for Motorola away from Festina. That's all going on around you. How difficult was it to sit in the middle of that or I guess more to arrive into that and to go, shit, this is what World Tour racing is?

48:57Brian Smith: It scared me, if I'm honest. it completely scared me I remember even when I was going to ACBB and I was always worried about what happens if you were offered drugs and it scared the life out of me and then there were stories about riders taking EPO and growth hormone and dying in their sleep I've recently watched the Jan Ullrich documentary and things like that and some of the stuff that they were having to do, wake up in the night and go for a walk or take blood thinners. I was totally scared with all that. Of course, it's been documented. With me and Lance, he was world champion, I was national champion, and we were riding along Lake Como, and he turned around to me and said, what do you think, Smithy?

49:49Brian Smith: I said, what do you mean? I said, well, we can't beat him. Why don't we join him? I said, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, no way. It's one of these things I always promised my dad. I was, forgive my French, I was shit scared of taking anything like that. And no, I promised my dad I would not take anything. Of course, 95 was the year that, you know, obviously the team went on to do their enhancements. But at the time you never thought about it, I can remember going into the Giro in 94 and looking at the list of riders and thinking, I could do all right here. but after the first few stages I can remember talking to this one of the Dutch riders and I think it was TVM at the time he came up to me after one of the stages and I said were your wheels skipping round the corners and I said yeah I said we were going so fast in some of these finishes that you know every corner your wheels were just skipping round the corners but we were going so fast and there was riders there that I really couldn't compete you know you're talking about Eric van der Arden was riding there for I think an Italian team Henrik Redant was riding for another team because it was predominantly Italian riders in a grand tour you do get sick and tired of talking to teammates all the time so you go and seek other riders and Henrik I had known since 1987 so Henrik was a good friend still is so we'd take a shoot the shirt a little bit and you know talk about things try to look at maybe we should attack together we should organise something and that happens sometimes with teams but yeah I've got some good memories but I was blown away with the speed I was talking to someone else about it that there was this circuit with a drag on it towards the finish and I thought right I might have a go on this drag before the finish I get dropped I couldn't even hold the wheel of the peloton they were riding so fast up it I was pretty much sprinting flat out on this drag to stay and I was like this is incredible so now you look back at the time you didn't really think too much about it one of the riders of the team I went out to the truck I like to not just sit in my room, get out, maybe see the mechanics so he was in the kitchen kind of rifling through and I said what are you looking for?

52:13Brian Smith: I said there must be something, what do you mean something? and they were looking for preparation it was all kind of legal but like beavits or something like that that they would use to inject themselves to give themselves a little bit of a boost. So he was almost desperate looking for stuff and that's what it felt like. It was like we were getting battered in the race. I was there helping Andy Hampston. He finished 10th that year and even Andy was blown away with it all because he was there to try and podium or at least try and win the race. And even he was really struggling to compete. I would do, in all the climbs I would do possibly the the first few kilometers, try to keep him in position and then pull off after my job was done.

52:57Brian Smith: And, you know, I was watching, is it Osorio, the climb? Because, you know, it wasn't done. I saw some highlights one time and I can remember riding up to the finish in, I think, 39, 23. And I remember Argentine won the stage and he was in the big ring on the climb. And I'm like, that's when I, is that the same climb? The same finish? That's incredible. You know, we were talking at one stage late in the race as I said there was there was only 90 odd riders finished that year in 94 and we went over the Caldeon Yellow and down the other side and we were riding up and it was about 60 60 in the Gruppetto which meant there was only 30 odd riders in front of us all kind of racing and I think it took us two weeks because the Guy Weiss team were riding at the front and this is no joke they were riding it was a grippy stage and they're riding at the front because they had Berzine in the pink jersey.

53:55Brian Smith: And it was grippy. You know, there's a few riders and I could see Van der Arden. Van der Arden was one of the best riders that could ride on a bike but off the bike at the same time because, you know, in the gutter, try to get shelter. So what these Belgians do, you know, in the crosswinds, they put their body in the shelter, their bikes out in the wind because they're, you know, right in the gutter. And it was one of these times where, oh, I was finding it really kind of tough and they were just riding tempo at the front. And all of a sudden, it slowed a little bit and they stopped for a natural break.

54:27Brian Smith: And I went, oh. And I looked at Eric van der Arden and he did the same thing. Van der Arden in the past was a top, top bike rider. But at that time, he was riding for a small Italian team and he just looked at me with a surprise. Like, oh, thank God, you know, they stopped for. It didn't last long. Two minutes later, they're all back at the front again riding hard and it was, oh. I didn't think. I was going through stages at the time thinking, right, if I can get over that climb, I can make it to the finish. And sometimes, and I say this to some people, you worry about maybe a certain hill or a certain place, and all of a sudden, during that stage, I can remember, you're even thinking about finishing the Giro d 'Italia, which Henrik Redant, he never got to finish.

55:13Brian Smith: He got blown out in one of the stages, I think it was the stage of Sestrier, and never got to ride into Milan. So I remember this stage, I was going through a rough period and I thought, right, if I can go over that climb, I can get to the finish and everything will be okay. And all of a sudden, the break went away and that climb I'd looked at getting over, it's the easiest climb of the whole Giro d 'Italia. They just templed up it. It was nice and easy. And I say this to a lot of people now, you worry about things that might not even happen. You know, you look at certain things and, you know, the race might not be on.

55:45Brian Smith: if it is on it's going to be tough but yeah there was some real tough periods and I I will tell you about coming off we finished Nolidoo's Alp one of the stages towards the end that stage was Sestria two laps Sestria neutralised down Nolidoo's Alp we're all wrapped up because it's quite cold and of course we got to the bottom Andy Hampson he stopped for a natural and you can't stop next to him you have to be about at least 10 metres away and not look so he's doing it so I'm towing him back and all of a sudden a few of the sports directors start chatting to us Andy speaks Italian I didn't I said what are they saying he said they've started racing and I was like gulp so I got him on the wheel and we're going from car to car to car and we started doing the lottery it starts to get a little bit harder and I got to within 50 metres of the group and I thought I'm not going to make this and I put my hand back and hand slung him boof he made it to the peloton and I went backwards so we're going through the tunnels if you know that part of the words we're going through the tunnels and they were trying to talk to me these spokes directors and all of a sudden other drop riders came flying by me and I'm like what's happening here what they're trying to tell me on in the tunnel hold on to the car right when we come out the tunnel leave the car and this is what they were all doing because the commissaires couldn't see in the tunnel because it was kind of dark so they were all telling me to do this and I didn't have a clue so eventually I was calling myself back I'd recovered from the effort I'd frianced I was calling my way back and I caught Davide Bramati towards the top he was riding for Lamprey and Lombardi and there was four of us went over the top of the lottery and it's a long down towards Briancon a long kind of downhill we were flat out there trying to get back on and we were still in the cars and we hit Montgenevere climb and I remember I got up there and it started to snow and I was saying I don't care if I get fired I don't care I was using wing mirrors I was trying to get on and eventually over the top of the mountain ever came I made it I thought right now I've just got two laps of Cestria so and the first time up Cestria Alvaro Mejia was starting to struggle so then I got told to make sure I looked after him he was really struggling in the cold because it was snowing so I had to nurse him so I had to wait for him and nurse Alvaro Mejia who went on that year to finish podium in the Tour de France so I was nursing him through the last of that stage got to the finish of that stage and it was about two centimetres of snow but then you see the highlights I think Pascal Richard was racing and just his racing kit you know his short sleeves and you know I had the rain jacket and everything on so I got to the finish there it was about two centimetres and then my swan he was there and he gave me this bottle, an anectus bottle.

58:44Brian Smith: This was the penultimate stage. The next day we're riding into Milan, so it was like a sensation of I've made it. So I drank this bottle of hot tea, I thought it was with honey, and I drank it down and I almost kind of floated back to the hotel. I was like, I had a glow about me, but I really did think that I've made it. I've made it to the finish. I'm going to make it to Milan. And got back to the hotel and everything had, it was just a sense of relief I met that same swanny at the Tour of Britain 10 years later and he came up to me he was at the bar I said can I buy you a drink I'll buy you a drink I've got a confession I said what do you mean and he went remember incesture in the snow they gave you a bottle and said it was tea and honey well it was grappa and I was like ah that's why I had that glow you know what I mean that's why I felt like that and he said yeah I didn't tell anybody but I've only had an own I'd have probably used it more but yeah that was yeah that was a confession he made after all these years and and then the next day into Milan Bjarne Rees was riding on the front again I'd had enough of Ghiwis riding on the front that Giro D 'Italia because they were doing it every stage but Bjarne Rees was riding at the front and he's probably riding just a kilometre an hour too fast just uncomfortable so being a plucky Scot I thought I'm not having this so I rode up to the front and said Bjarne what are you doing I said can you not just ride a little bit easier and then we then we could race when we get into Milan in the circuits and I said oh I'd love to but I want to catch my flight and we've been riding too slow so pure Bjarne race wanted to catch his flight that night back to back to home back to Denmark and he wanted to make it in time so he was already thinking about getting home I was just thinking about getting to Milan and he was dishing out pain.

1:00:38Brian Smith: I tried to slow him up and I said, I'll get a flight tomorrow. No, I want to get this flight and that's why he was riding hard at the front. So yeah, look, there's a lot of these things, this happened, but yeah, it was elation and even looking at that, of course, nowadays, I was talking to someone else, I think I was talking to Cycling Weekly about this, they actually phoned me for another reason but we ended up now just talking about something else and I think he published something a couple of days ago like riders are becoming like robots. And I think that's very true because it's very difficult to enjoy yourself now as a bike rider.

1:01:16Brian Smith: And I can remember, you know, after that Giro d 'Italia, you got to remember, we actually stayed there in Milan. And then I remember flying back on the Monday. And although that race was brutal, absolutely brutal, you know, I was like, I can't wait to get to Milan I can't wait to get to the finish the funny thing is seeing that Monday night when I'm sitting in my own apartment in Nice I wish I was back I wish I was back you get used to it and you miss it although it's brutal at the time but you get used to being part of something and then all of a sudden you're on your own and it's just an empty room and it's psychologically it's kind of hard to deal with it

1:02:01Will: And did you end up in really great shape after that because you were just pushing yourself so hard?

1:02:07Brian Smith: I then went to, I think they call it the Route de Sud, the following week, and I had diesel legs. You know, I could just ride hard all day. And I remember the stage where Alvaro Mejia had come out the Giro d 'Italia, he was then leading that race, and it was 30-odd degrees. And of course, I was riding on the front right from the start of the stage. So the breakaway went away. I think Douglas LaSalle and things like that were in it. I was asked to ride. Luckily, I had Sean Kelly there helping me a little bit. Not helping me by riding on the front, but just telling me, Smithy, slow a little, slow a little.

1:02:45Brian Smith: Because that was one thing that you had to learn when you're riding tempo at the front. How hard do you ride? So that was a kind of learning curve for me. And then I thought, right, when the other lads came up towards the end, that was my job finished. And I said, no, because at one stage they started to pick it up and get faster and faster. And, you know, it's totally different now because it's all measured. But back in the day, you used to ride steady and then really pick the tempo up towards the end to bring back more time. I remember that the team came up and started to ride faster and faster.

1:03:18And I thought, right, I can now take it easy.

1:03:21Brian Smith: I've done my work. Now, Raul kept on pushing me onto the wheel. And I said to him afterwards, why are you doing this? He said, it's a sure strength. soon as one rider from the team drifts back it shows a little bit of weakness because when riders look up and go the whole team of Motorola have been riding on the front all day and they're absolutely killing it at the moment the whole team that's a show of strength and that's what again he was going to show that and it's something that I have done you know a lot of this stuff I've taken not just into commentary when I'm commentating but into racing and a lot of this stuff that I've learned from different riders so we went on to win the Route des Sud and then went over to the Isle of Man and it was pissing the rain.

1:04:03Brian Smith: And Sean said to me afterwards, they were all saying, oh, what's Brian's form like? What's he like? And I think Sean said, don't worry about Smithy. You know, it's 12 degrees here. We were riding in 30 odd degrees last week in France. I don't think he's got great form. Well, I went on to win that national championships because they had a combined Irish and national champ and British champs that year. And of course, Sean. but it was Martin Elliott won that one Sean second I think Joe Barr was third but that was a proud moment for me in 94 afterwards because I had great legs couldn't get rid of Malcolm Elliott at all until very late in the race but it was just persistent attack attack attack diesel legs I never felt brilliant but it's just I ground it out I ground that result out because when I'd won my national championships in 91 my twin sister was the only family member I had there watching and my mum and dad saw me in 9-4 so that was a kind of proud moment for me and I think winning it for the second time meant more than the first time of being a little bit shy and embarrassed about this is not really happening so to win it in front of my mum and dad was probably one of the proudest moments of my life

1:05:16James: Oh fantastic well Brian I think that's a really good moment to end on love imagining that scene and at the end of that what sounds like a season of some pretty serious ups and downs and some hellish moments. A great moment to end on. So, Brian, thank you so much for coming on the Cyclist Magazine podcast. Love to have you back on. Love to talk more about the Tour of Greece, which, as you say, is coming up. Is it May the 6th? 6th to the 10th. Yeah, 6th to the 10th. So five stages. Yeah, we'll have keen eyes on that. And yeah, best of luck with that. And I know you're a busy man and probably all the other cycling weeklies and Cyclist Magazine podcasts and people knocking on the door asking to relive old stories.

1:06:00James: So thank you very much for giving us that time. It's been wonderful to chat.

1:06:03Brian Smith: You're welcome.

1:06:07James: Thank you, Brian. And do everyone tune in to hear Brian commentating on the Tour of Hellas? At least I think he's commentating. I'm pretty sure he is. That's the Tour of Hellas on the 6th to the 10th of May, which you can watch wherever it is you watch your cycling these days. as I know it's become a bit disparate out there, but hopefully you can catch the tour of Hellas. But until next time, thank you, dear listener, for joining us.

1:06:30Brian Smith: Hope to see you again in a couple of weeks.

1:06:32James: Ta-ra!

1:06:38James: Hello, lovely listeners. I just wanted to tell you that Cyclist isn't just a podcast. No, Cyclist is also a beautiful print magazine. It's packed full of all the best rides from around the world, the newest bikes and kit, and loads of in-depth articles featuring guests just like on today's show. So head on over to cyclist.co.uk slash subscriptions and check out our latest Cyclist Magazine subscription offers.