Maury Povich is obsessed with golf

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0:21I want to talk today on the show about golf. and I feel like I have a very strange relationship with golf because I'm about 50 years old and I feel like this is the moment in my life when I'm supposed to start loving golf, like embracing it and really getting into it. Instead, I've been on this opposite trajectory. I loved golf when I was a little kid. It was what bonded me to my grandfather. He lived on a golf course in Florida. It was the thing we did together. I mean, I remember every aspect of it. Like he would carry this little Tupperware container of grapes and I was allowed to have one grape after every putting green and then we move on to the next hole.

1:00Couldn't be two grapes. He brought 18 grapes for me and 18 for him. And it was just what bonded us. And I had a pretty decent swing apparently as a kid, but then I lost both my grandfather and then I lost my swing and I started hating golf and friends would take me out on a course. I just never could get into it. And so I'm wondering if there is someone in the world who might be able to get me into golf. And we're going to speak to a guest today who you know him for many other reasons through the years. But in addition to all of his television presence and being such a part of the fabric of our entertainment and news culture in the United States of America, he is an obsessive golfer.

1:44And so we're going to be back in just a moment with the one and only Mari Povich.

1:54all right we are back uh with david green who's obsessed and i am with marie povich um who i'm sure many of you know through the years uh i mean a pillar in our entertainment world um hosted the marie povich show and then mari up until 2022 talk show host journalist also owner of a small newspaper which i hope to get into um but also has a new podcast called on par with Mari Povich, and he is an avid golfer, and we're going to start the conversation with golf. Mari, it is an honor to have you. Thank you for coming on our show. Nice to be with you, and it's a great story about your grandfather.

2:32Yeah? You know, I think more than anything else, the memories that you have with golf when it comes to relatives are just so ingrained in you. You just never lose them. I remember, well, maybe I should start this way. My father's name is Shirley Povich. And my father started as a young caddy in Ball Harbor, Maine, where he grew up. He was a townie. And he grew up there, and he was to make money. I think he was saying he would make a quarter to carry somebody's bag. And this course called Kibo Valley was built by millionaires, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, all the people who summered on Mount Desert Island in Maine.

3:20And so he was thrown together with this man, and this man liked my father's caddying so much at the age of 15 that he sent his carriage, I mean, this is 1917, no, 1918 or 1919, to no cars on Mount Desert Island. Carriage picked my father up every day in the summer caddy for this guy. This guy went to my grandmother, said he wanted to take my father to Washington, D.C. He owns his own golf course at his house, and he will give my father a job at this place he owned. It was called the Washington Post. Wow. And my father was the sports columnist for the Washington Post. But it was golf who got him to Washington.

4:0575 years, yes, as a caddy. He gets to Mr. Edward B. McLean was the man's name. My father had never been off the island. he gets to Washington, he gets to the house. Edward B. McLean says, Shirley, I'm so glad you're here. We're all set to play. I want to introduce you, Mr. President Warren G. Harding. I want you to introduce you to Shirley Povich, the greatest caddy in America. Are you serious? This is crazy. Wait, your dad just starts caddying, gets picked up on a horse and carriage, and then ends up getting a move to Washington that gets him meeting the president of the United States. And starts in the Washington Post at the age of 17, and he's the sports editor by the time he's 21.

4:50This is crazy. I mean, I obviously can't remember every single one of your shows through the years, but did you ever talk about golf as being the basis of your roots in Washington, of your love of journalism? No, and the most amazing thing about it is I have this affinity no matter where I play. I have this affinity for caddies. I'm sure. I mean, if it wasn't for my father being a caddy, I wouldn't be who I am. That's amazing. So did you golf with your dad? Yeah, it's interesting. My father was, he loved golf and he loved to cover golf. His favorite sports to cover were baseball, boxing, golf, and horse racing.

5:35Because he felt that there was a great intimacy in those sports. and he always used to say he covered football, of course, but he says, these people wear helmets. You just can't get through to them. You know, you can't see everything. And so he wasn't a good golfer, but he loved the game. And he told me one time, he said, when we started out, we would carry the club down the fairway with us and we were going like this all the time. And I said, well, why are you doing that? that? Well, it was this new grip. It was called the Varden Grip, which is now the grip of every great golf, any golfer now.

6:18That's the grip you have. And in 1917 or 18, they were just learning this grip. How did people grip golf clubs before the Varden Grip era? The Varden Grip era. It was an old Scottish thing where it was in the thumbs and it was like kind of backwards and stuff. It was crazy. Yeah. And I have pictures. Yeah. Golf is, it's a big part of my life. Yeah. I mean, part of your history, but do you love it? I mean, do you love, you love golfing and being on the course and what do you love about it? It's interesting about how it started with me. I really never played as a kid. I was the classic, you grow up in the 1940s and 50s and you go to school, what do you play?

7:05You play baseball, basketball, and football. That's what you played because that's all there was. Yeah, unless you're not really an athlete like me and you don't do any of that. But, I mean, in theory, if you've got some skills, yeah. You know, there was no golf. There was no tennis. There was none of that stuff. So I didn't play. And then when I was in my late 20s, my father comes to me and says, now look, son, I belong to this club. And if you want to join the club, you've got to join before you're 30. And if you join after 30, it's$5 ,000. You don't have that money. I don't have that money.

7:47But if you join now, it costs$1 ,000. Makes sense. So I joined this club and I went down this, we grew up, I grew up in Washington, D.C. I went down this beautiful driveway for maybe a half a mile. And at the time I was working, I was doing a talk show. I was anchoring the weekend news. I was doing the weekday sports. I was just totally enmeshed in my career. And all of a sudden, before I ever picked up a club, all the stuff, all the bullshit that I was thinking about that day just evaporated. And I went, I've never felt like this. And I haven't touched a club. So the culture was already kind of giving you this escape.

8:34Yeah, it was because I had never really had a so-called avocation or hobby. I mean, I was working since I was 16 in this silly business. And so everything just lifted. I mean, it was just a whole new world. And I started out, I was, because I played sports, I was probably a 15, 16 handicap. And then on my own, I got down to about a five or six handicap, won the club championships a few times there. But what turned it around, and this is reference to you, it was the age of 50. Okay. That's when everything changed for me in golf because my wife, the beloved Connie Chung, hires for my 50th birthday.

9:25She does all this research and hires this golf coach, which I never had a teacher, named Peter Costas, the great commentator for then CBS during all the CBS golf tournaments, the Masters and everything. And so we had a home in New Jersey at that time. And so he came to New Jersey. My wife says, this is the golf god. I'm giving you the golf god. And now, 36 years later, she considers himself the golf devil because I've chased him around the country and the world for the last 36 years. She didn't expect it to get this intense. No. She thought she was just giving you like a nice hobby and pastime.

10:07Yeah. And so, I mean, and then I won the club championships in Washington and then in New Jersey. Yeah, you're really good. We had a weekend home. And then he said to me, you know, you can play competitively nationally. I said, no. So he and his buddy named Gary McCord, another CBS commentator, we played a lot of golf together. And so at the age of 60, I qualified for the United States Senior Amateur. I made match play in the United States Senior Amateur. And I played in three British Senior Amateurs. And I played a lot of competitive golf nationally. and that's my story. But what do you, Mari, what do you love about it?

10:56Like I'm really struck by what you talked about, like getting to that club and not even picking up clubs. It takes you to a place. Like what is it about golf that baseball, basketball, soccer don't do? I'll tell you.

11:11In 18 holes, in that period of time, in that four hours, every facet of my personality comes out. It's amazing. All the pleasure that I have, all the demons that I carry. I mean, everything comes out in a game of golf. And I always say, if I want to meet somebody, I'll bring them on the golf course. And I can tell you after 18 holes, whether I want to be with that guy again. And it's not based on their handicap. It's based on the relationship. No, it's based on how they comport themselves, what they think of themselves, how they treat the game. I've been around some pretty big people who don't treat the game the way it should be.

12:10I mean, this is the most genteel, mannered, truthful game there is. and uh if you abuse it uh basically you don't want to be with that person anymore what does abuse look like cheating if you cheat oh if you cheat okay so it's not throwing your club if you hit a bad shot it's the well that's it's that's a comportment is part of it okay i mean got if a guy throws a club fine if he closed if he throws a club twice i don't want to play with him again You get one time. But if you cheat and then put down a score, that's the ultimate crime in golf. I'm not going to ask you to name names, but is there a wild cheating story that caused you to never want to golf with someone again?

13:03Well, what is remarkable to me that over the years, there have been a few players in the golf world, not outside of the golf world, but very, very good golfers who've been cheating, who've been known to cheat. Like I've watched them on TV, like on the PGA Tour. Oh, yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't know currently, but over the years, absolutely. And that bothers you? To no end. And then, I mean, it's public knowledge. I mean, Bill Clinton used to hit two or three balls on a hole and then put in a score. You don't do that. That doesn't feel right. And we feel with the current president, we see things being moved and things for him.

13:52Yeah, you see some pretty suspicious shit going on. Right. And so, you know, that's not kosher. I mean, you just don't do that. And yet I've been with one of the former presidents, George W. Bush. George W. Bush and I and 10 other people played golf every year after the Labor Day weekend in California for maybe 20 years. And so President Bush and I became very friendly. He's a terrific person to be around playing golf. He's honest. He's truthful. He plays fast. He wants to be very competitive. And, I mean, he's a delight. And then, contrary to that, you know, the current president, I've been around, and it's not fun.

14:47It's different. Yeah, I covered all eight years of George W. Bush's presidency. So I got to see some of that up close. Obviously, he's a journalist. I mean, if you covered him, you understand. He always had nicknames for everybody. Oh, yeah. He called me Poe. I was Poe all his life. I was Ocho, eight in Spanish. Oh, is that right? I was covering, the first thing I covered when I started in the White House press corps was his visit to Mexico, beginning of first term. And I was so enamored by the experience of being a White House correspondent. and I got lost on President Vicente Fox's ranch. And so they're counting the press corps to bring us into the joint press conference.

15:29They counted up to seven, they get to eight. They're like, where the hell is the Baltimore Sun guy? So I was forever more known as Ocho, which is, you know, not what you're going for in the nickname, but you don't get a choice. What was your nickname? My nickname was Poe. Nice. You know, a lot of people call me Mo Poe, but he called me Poe. And he, I'll tell you, every single year of his presidency, he invited me and another part of our group, another guy, a great man named John Angelo, who unfortunately passed away. Every single year, he invited us to lunch at the White House. That's great. The two of us.

16:11I mean, to the point where coming down to the end, all of a sudden he calls, he says, well, where are you guys? Where are you? And I said, well, we didn't get a call. You said, get on down here. Get on down here. Not only that, this time bring the wives. And the 12 guys at one time, we had a dinner at the White House with him. We were smoking cigars in the Truman balcony. I mean, it was just, he was, one time I'm going there for lunch. He says, Poe. He says, I can't run anymore. My knees are no good. I'm on the treadmill. I'm flipping around. How do you do that show with a straight face? And I looked at him and I said, well, Mr.

16:55President, think about all the things you have to do every day with a straight face. That's a very good point. He said, touche. Yeah. He was, I mean, now that we're getting away from golf and into George W. Bush nostalgia, it's, I will say I covered him one day when he was, I had just come back to work. My mom had passed away suddenly. I actually found out about it after landing on Air Force One after a trip to New Orleans after Katrina, but took a few weeks off. He was doing an event about immigration on the Mexico border. And in total George W. Bush style, he got really excited about the border patrol dune buggies, and he wanted to ride one.

17:38Oh, wow. So he's riding around the desert. Of course, they bring all the cameras. is we're forced to stand there in the blistering heat to cover his ride on a dune buggy. And I write this little radio piece when I was at NPR about what a goof he was that day. And, you know, total George W. Bush style. Get on the plane. We take off. And Tony Snow, who was a press secretary at that point, comes back and he gets me. And I'm like, oh, shit. Am I going to get reprimanded by someone for doing like a goofy story? brings me into the, you know, the Oval Office on the plane. And Bush just looked me in the eye and said, I heard about your mother and I want to hear more about her.

18:15Laura and I are so sorry. Yeah. It was just, it was one of the most meaningful expressions of sympathy that I've ever had. And yeah. He is that way to this day. I mean, he wrote me a dear letter when I retired. And I mean, it was, he's just a terrific guy. You know, maybe some of his policies I didn't like. Sure. Obviously, he got all messed up when it came to Iraq. But I always thought his intentions were honorable. You know, it's so interesting. I think about your show, On Par. It is, in name, a golf show. Right. But very little of it has to do with golf. It's interviews, it's relationships, it's conversations.

19:04With now that I hear you talk about what you love about golf being the intimacy and the relationships and the conversations, I feel like the show makes total sense. Yeah. I mean, you know, on par means a lot more than just golf. Yeah. You know, do you feel par today? I mean, do you feel good today? I mean. I think so. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing I like about golf is that it doesn't matter whether you're good or bad. there's a recognition of what you are in relation to par. And so therefore you have a handicap. It could be 10, which means your scores will be 10 shots over par or if you're, whatever it is, there's a relationship to the game.

19:51So that even if you're, and by the way, this is another great thing. If you're a poor golfer, you can play with a good golfer. It's just fine. Because you have a handicap, he has a handicap, and you give him strokes and everything else. You make everything even to start with, except for those people who cheat when it comes to their handicaps. Yeah, we can't have them around. And you can have fun. You can have fun. Well, you're winning me over. Yeah. Do you still play? No, not at all. And now I'm thinking like— Not good. Not good. Well, you know, so I think about, I listened to the first episode of your show with you and your wife, the legendary Connie Chung, of course.

20:34It was, I hope this doesn't, this word lands okay. It was adorable. Yeah. Like it was the two of you. I mean, it was just like so lovely. I think part of it was both of you wanting to make sure that people remembered the other's achievements, which was such a kind of a beautiful kind of narrative to see between the two of you play out. Yeah, I mean, it's been kind of, you know, when it comes to, I don't know, loosely definition of fame, I mean, when I got married, I was just a local anchorman who had kind of traipsed around the country. And at one time I had a seven-year odyssey in which I worked at five different, in seven years I worked at five different cities, five different stations.

21:33In fact, there was a great reporter, New York Times White House reporter named Richard Reeves. and Richard wrote also a column for Esquire magazine. And I was very friendly with Richard and the title of his column was My Friend the Anchorman. He says, I've seen Maury Povich anchor the news in four different cities on four successive St. Paddy's days. This is a guy who's trying to go nationwide city by city. You're like an NBA journeyman or something. I mean, like new team every season. Yeah. So then I finally got back to Washington. And finally, after seven years of on and off dating with Connie, we get married in 1984.

22:20And she's this big star at that time at NBC in New York. And I'm the local anchorman in Washington. And I used to come up to New York to see her on the weekends after we were married. And I tell the doorman downstairs, I said, I'm here to see my wife, Connie Chung, and my name is Mari Povich. And he calls up and said, Miss Chung, Mr. Chung is downstairs. And that's the way I've always thought of this marriage 40 years later. You're Mr. Chung. I'm Mr. Chung. Well, there were some hysterical stories in there. I was literally laughing my ass off when you talked about some of Connie's relationships when she got to California.

23:06I think you talked about Warren Beatty as being kind of the immigration agent of people who arrive in California. It has to have to have a relationship with him before you're accepted. In fact, I can remember Connie even did this because she was dating Beatty. I kind of knew it, didn't know it. And we were also dating. I mean, it was not an exclusive arrangement. And so my daughters at the time were visiting Connie in California with me. And Connie tells my daughters, look, if the phone rings and it's Warren Beatty, just say Walters on the phone.

23:51So I think it probably happened once or twice. Yeah, it probably happened a few times. But you weren't exclusive yet. No. No. We were never exclusive, never lived together ever for seven and a half years. I guess what we recall it, the energy of wanting to get married was like back and forth. I mean, it was like a ping pong game. And I would ask her, no, I'm not ready. She would ask me, no, I'm not ready. And it went back and forth. And finally, she calls me up and says, I think we can get married now. And I said, why? And she says, because I found a dress.

24:36There's so much in that answer. I love that. And six weeks later, we were married in her apartment in New York with 40 of our relatives and friends. And that was it. Well, it's, I mean, the thing about you, I think, you know, you're obsessed with golf. And a lot of people know you, obviously, for the Maury Povich show. But, you know, before then, you were obsessed about storytelling and obsessed about being a very serious journalist, which I know you still are. I wanted to be Cronkite. I mean, I was just intent on trying to make it big. And, you know, it's interesting. I'm sure, David, you have your moments where you covered some great things.

25:23And I was, because of the age that I lived in, I mean, I was a radio reporter for WWDC Radio, a 5 ,000-watt radio station, in 1963. I'm covering the Martin Luther King march at the memorial. and I'm on the other side of the memorial. I'm, believe it or not, covering George Lincoln Rockwell, the American Nazi guy with his 10 demonstrators and 40 cops. And that was my... That was your assignment for the day. That was my assignment. And all I can do is hear his speech on a loudspeaker. That's the best I could do. And then later that year, I mean, I'm at the then Andrews Air Force space at midnight, watching Jackie Kennedy come off that plane in that bloodied pink suit and the coffin coming out the back.

26:24And on top of that, we've got not that assassination, have the Martin Luther King assassination. We have the Bobby Kennedy assassination. We have the anti-Vietnam War marches. We have Watergate, all in the space of 10 years in Washington, which were the golden age of news coverage. Wouldn't you think that would be? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you lived it and covered it, but yeah. From 63 to 74? Yeah, and some, I mean, a golden age, but some incredibly tragic events, but in terms of the importance of... I mean, as you know, I mean, you look back on the stories you cover. Yeah. And you know what stands out.

27:08So it was, I mean, I just, you know, I got my experience very young. And you worked in Baltimore, so you'll understand this. I'm working for that 5 ,000-watt radio station. I could be covering a bank robbery one hour. I could be covering a fatal accident the next hour. I could be on Capitol Hill the next hour. I'd be at the White House the next hour. I mean, you had a full, I mean, if you're a local reporter in Washington, D.C., it's like being a national reporter. Yeah. And a local reporter at the same time. No, absolutely. When you were having, at that point in your career, I mean, you were having some amazing conversations, too.

27:53I mean, you talked about people like Hunter S. Thompson. I mean, you were really, you were finding some luminaries. Yeah, I did this show. It was great. People have to understand, we're talking from 1966 until 1970. I left in 77. This is before CNN. This is before MSNBC. This is before Fox. Basically, there was no kind of today's show kind of newsy thing in the middle of the day. And I'm working at a station that eventually became a Fox station. We had this show called Panorama two hours a day. And I'm telling you, everybody at the White House, everybody on the Hill, everybody at the federal agencies would watch every day the way they watch now cable news.

28:41And wanted to be on. Like they're watching and it's like, I need that's the place to be. And when Watergate comes, all the great reporters, big name reporters from around the country, Jimmy Breslin, Hunter S. Thompson, they all come. Hunter comes on my show. It's the only time in my life where I allowed somebody to drink on the show. He had a six pack of beer. Oh, wow. And I'm telling you within 15 minutes, that 15 minute segment, he drank the entire six pack and was so smart, never on camera. And it was a live show. He pounded all of, he pounded the whole six pack while he was talking to you.

29:21Pounded all six. That's amazing. Yeah. You know, I think my version of that is Keith Richards. He's the only person who— Oh, wow. It must have been great. He was pounding, I think, like vodka and orange Fanta, but also smoking and smoking into a very expensive microphone. And I remember looking at the engineer, and we had this conversation with no words that I was kind of like, are you going to tell Keith Richards to stop smoking? Because I sure am not going to tell Keith Richards to stop smoking. Right. And just kept puffing away, and we had an amazing conversation. Well, it's amazing because we smoked during every commercial break on set back then in the 60s and 70s.

30:03Even when I was doing the news, right? We'd break for a commercial after the first segment. I was just a little late, Mari. If I could have only lived through that era, and I was a little late. I mean, I was still in the shooting bourbon in the newsroom, but I feel like I missed out. That was good. Well, so tell me how, I mean, you become best known, as you've referenced, as you've been talking about, you know, starting this new show. But for daytime talk, a little trashy, if I can say it. I mean, paternity tests. Sure. Are you the father? Right. How did that happen? Like, where did that idea come from?

30:40And what decision did you make about where you wanted to take your career as someone who is such a serious journalist, interviewer, storyteller? So, you know, for the first, I'm going to think, maybe seven, eight, nine years that I was doing talk shows, daytime talk shows, it was like a Donahue show. It was like Oprah. It was pretty tame. We would go, for instance, we'd go to Waco, Texas, when the Branch Davidians were down there. I went to Nashville for a week in the early 1990s to do a week with country music. And then my executive producer came up with this idea of paternity tests. And I'm thinking, I don't know.

31:31And then I'm thinking, I'm reading these stories, and I'm saying, you know, it's just another form of storytelling. I mean, these people are going through all of this drama, all of this conflict, all of these emotions, all of these Shakespearean themes that are being played out in their lives. And it's really no different than if I was covering a story and trying to be a storyteller. This is a way of telling a story. And the success of it was because you can do something for 12 minutes and there was a result everybody's waiting to see what the what the outcome is right and so therefore soap operas back then in the in the 1990s were having the paternity theme which would be stretched out for six months on daytime uh daytime soaps and we were giving these results in real time with real people.

32:31And so I bought into it. And the only thing that really, I think, what I really lent to it more than anything else in the beginning was the first time we did it, I was being briefed and the producer would say, the show producer would say, and the result is, and I said, I don't want to know the result. I don't want to know any more than my guests, my audience, my live audience, my audience at home. If I knew more than they did, then I would skew the questions. I would know more. I don't want to know anything more so that when those phrases came out, you are the father or you're not the father, I'm as surprised as anybody.

33:14That was a big part of it, I think. And we could be on the journey with you. And so I can be as honest as I can. And I think the guests knew that. And I think that's one of the reasons why they felt they were in a safe space. Are you okay with the fact that so many Americans were obsessed with you for that kind of reason? And that it's a big part of your legacy? Yeah, I mean, it is. But, you know, the more I see people now, you know, who, I mean, today I went for an annual checkup at a hospital. And so I was getting a scan, a normal heart scan or something. And the nurses are going, watched you every day.

34:07You wouldn't believe it. We watched you. We would cut school. We would tell my parents I was sick. I mean, it's just, and it's always their relationship to the show. And when they tell you, they're going back and reliving their own lives at the time. Says, oh, we would, I'd cut a class. I would go to McDonald's and watch this. I said, you mean they had it? Oh, yeah, had it on at McDonald's. I said, okay, fine. Quite frankly, I'm just amazed at the memories people have. and how they, I've never had anybody who've come up to me and criticized me for the show, ever, ever. That doesn't surprise me.

34:55Does me, because there are a lot of media critics. Yeah, but I mean, they're gonna, whatever. I mean, it's the relationship with the audience. And politicians, by the way. You know, there were conservative politicians. Joe Lieberman just went on the Today Show. Oh, that trashy, that Povich down, that that's the trash that that show shouldn't be allowed to be on i mean okay joe fine it means you're doing something right murray means you were doing something right i'm really interested in i mean i i've been doing a lot of work to to try and um save journalism in the part of pennsylvania where i grew up uh how you're doing how are you doing it's hard it is hard i mean there's i i've i've been working with a the a newspaper where i did my first internship a public radio station I love them both so much.

35:45But you and Connie own a newspaper now in Montana? Yeah. Tell me about that project. How did that come about? It's called the Flathead Beacon in northwest Montana, right next to Glacier National Park, called the Flathead Valley. And we opened this newspaper 18 years ago called the Flathead Beacon, a weekly newspaper. Congratulations. That's so important. Yeah, it's won every single newspaper award in the state, you know, best investigative reporting, best weekly newspaper, best website, you know. And for 15 years, we had this print edition. But as you know with newspapers, the costs are unbearable.

36:32And so now we're online. But it's still, I mean, Ernest, we put out a daily newsletter of all the stories that have happened that day. And we're up to like 10 ,000 people a day viewing this newsletter. That's amazing. That's great. Plus, you know, the paper has its own website, which is unbelievable. And what I love about it, and you know, Montana is a very conservative state. Every politician in the state loves the paper. Everyone, doesn't matter what your stripe is, they all want to come to be interviewed. They understand the reach that we have. And they think that we're as fair and honest as you can be.

37:18And I'm telling you, David, I say this when I go out, when I'm speaking it once in a while when I speak, or Connie and I speak. There is a problem with the national press. We all know it. When I say the press, I mean television, newspapers, you call it, radio, doesn't matter. There is a problem. Yeah. And the future, the future in trust is local journalism. People believe what they read about their own neighborhoods. People believe what's happening that day on the news. And so, therefore, if you can get people to trust in local journalism, at some point, I'm hopeful it will fan out and maybe then become regional.

38:09And maybe after that, who knows? But local press, local media is trusted in this country, don't you think? I do. I mean, more than national or larger organizations. I mean, I do feel like that. And what you're describing is exactly what I hope that so many communities can do. But I just applaud you for, I mean, you and Connie for giving it a shot. Yeah, I mean, we're not making any money, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a public service. It's a public good. It's what communities need. Yeah, and I'm so proud. And the reporters, we have like six reporters, including the editor-in-chief.

38:54The editor-in-chief's a fellow named Kellen Brown came out of the University of Montana. He was a city editor in Billings, Montana. and we hired him in his mid-20s and now he's in his 40s and he hires all these great young journalists who just want to cover the news and with no political stripe or anything like that. They just want to cover the news and get a good story. I love that so much. I think you half-jokingly said to Connie when you did your episode of your new show with her that this podcast is, quote, all I've got. Which, it just hit me. There's something, there's so much self-reflection beneath those words.

39:49Like, what is, how are you feeling these days looking back on your career? Well, I'll tell you, I'm kind of obsessed with the podcast. because it really encapsulates everything I've done in my life. I've interviewed news people. I've interviewed sports stars. I've interviewed comics. I've interviewed people who have brought themselves up from nothing. and so therefore everything that I experienced as a storyteller I can do on this podcast and I mean I can delve into how come this young influencer has 15 million followers on Instagram I mean what is that? Wouldn't we all like to know the answer to that question sometimes?

40:49Yeah I mean I and so therefore I can dip my I can dip my toe in all these various aspects of life. And, I mean, it's exhilarating for me. It gets me off the golf course. Because I'd be playing golf all the time. I mean, you know, and so, I mean, for instance, next week, I'm going to do this podcast with this woman who's become In late life, this huge comic star, Leanne Morgan. Do you know who she is? I don't, but I feel like I'm about to. Leanne Morgan is this woman from a small town in Tennessee, and she's a great comic. She has her own sitcom on Netflix. She has her stand-up shows on Netflix and stuff.

41:46But all she does is talk about family life and this unbelievable Southern accent. And she's just great. All right, when Mari and I come back in a second, we're going to have a little lightning round before I let him go. I'll be right back with Mari Povich.

42:10All right, I'm back with the legendary Mari Povich, who has a new podcast on par with Mari Povich. And Mari, I know you have like a lightning round at the end of your show called The 19th Hole, right? Yeah. where you actually have some golf involved. There's a little, like you have a miniature golf situation in your studio, right? Yeah, I mean, we have a little putting green and then I get, the guest has a chance to ask me any question they want and I'll either be truthful or not. Okay. Well, I'll give you, before I ask you a question, I'll let you ask me any question you want to turn the tables and maybe I'll be truthful.

42:43When you went out of, and I guess NPR was your last job or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Was it on your terms or theirs? Oh, it was on my terms. Good question, though. I like that. You like that? It was the hardest professional decision I ever made. I hosted Morning Edition for almost a decade and was Moscow bureau chief and covered the White House. And I just, you know, I knew that I wanted to have a different chapter and not be at the same place my entire career. And it was, it felt really, it was, you know, Morning Edition. I would wake up in the middle of the night every day to do the show, which took its toll.

43:25How long did you do Morning Edition? Almost a decade. And some from the West Coast, so I would wake up at midnight. Right. Well, Connie, she for a long time did the show at NBC before the Today Show. So she had to get up at 1, 2 in the morning, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so she knows what it is. I mean, it takes its toll. She did it for three years. And she said, Willard Scott had the best line about doing early morning TV or radio. He says, it's like being a prostitute. They pick you up in a car, but you got to find your own way home.

44:08For the record, being in public radio and not network television, I didn't get the right in either direction, but that's pretty good. Yeah. But that was definitely taking its toll. Right. So now being out of the, I don't know whether you want to call it, traditional media. Yeah.

44:33And I'm sure you don't miss it because of the way it's going. No. Especially NPR and what's happening there. I love the place. I love the institution. Oh, I'm sure you do. But I don't miss it. Yeah. do your former colleagues know you anymore or do they not care about you uh it's interesting this is really becoming therapy um my former colleagues i'm friends with a lot of them so they absolutely care about me so i they keep up a hundred percent but But, you know, there's going from a show that has 14 million listeners a week to trying to, I mean, to struggling to find your own projects. You feel a certain, you know, it's just a different feeling.

45:24You know, you're struggling to feel relevant and important and impactful in the same way. And, you know, I own that, but I definitely talk to my therapist about it a lot. You do. Yeah. You have a therapist. Wow. I do. Yeah. Highly recommend it. Yeah. I think I messed up. You got plenty of time, Murray. I think I messed up. Yeah. No, you got plenty of time. Well, let me finish with a question to you. I often, we explore other obsessions as we close out. Sure. What is one obsession in your life that you have only told Connie about and no one else until this moment? Wow. Nah, I can't think of any.

46:14I'm so transparent. I tell everybody everything. But what's an obsession that maybe most of us don't know about? I have, over the last 10 or 12 years, I've really fallen in love with dogs. Love that. This is a new, you were not a dog owner, dog lover growing up. Way, way back, but there was about a 40 to 50 year absence. Gap, okay. And I didn't think that I could. And then Connie and I got a dog and we named him Birdie. He's a golden retriever. And he, for 12 and a half years, I mean, I would be with that dog all the time. And the dog would come to the show and perform for the audience before we taped.

46:59That's great. I'd throw up a treat and he'd jump and get it, sit down, do everything. And it was great. And then he got old. And so Connie says, which is strange, we have to get another dog. I went, wow, wow. I thought this would be it. No, Bertie's getting old. And so we got another golden retriever in the last year of Bertie's life. And I said, okay, Connie, we live in Manhattan. I said, you want to name it? She says, yeah. And the reason why we named it Bertie was my caretakers in Montana came to me with this dog. I had a couple of scotches in me. And they said, here's your new dog. I said, what dog?

47:51Well, we heard you might want a dog. Here's your dog. What's the first thing that comes out of my mind? My mouth. Birdies. Yeah. Because of golf. You're a golf guy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So now I say to Connie, I say, so you name this dog. And she says, I have the perfect name for this dog. Taxi. And so Taxi is our dog. Wait a second. Wait one second. Are you getting Taxi for us? Taxi. Come on. I want to introduce you to somebody, Taxi. Come here. Come here. Come right over here. Come here. Come here. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. Taxi. Taxi. What's up? Oh, you're beautiful. Yeah. Oh, you are beautiful.

48:36Darker golden retriever. Oh, yeah. A little darker than usual. Oh, I just want to hug taxi through the screen. Taxi's great. Oh, yeah. What you doing? What you doing? What you doing? We walk every day in the park in Montana. She's off the leash for five months. She runs on the beach in Florida when we go. I mean, she's got a hell of a life. That's a pretty good life. Where did the name Taxi come from? Connie, she's a New York dog. There you go. Connie said, named it Taxi. There you go. And she's got a little black and white collar. I love the old taxis, I love that. Mario, this was really fun.

49:14I really, I'm really grateful for the conversation. Yeah, thank you. My pleasure. And not only that, my late brother was named David. Oh, nice. It's a dear name. It's a dear name. Well, I appreciate that. I will try in any way I can to carry on the legacy. Great. Thanks so much.

49:39David Green is Obsessed as a production of Campside Media. It is hosted by me, David Green. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. We are mixed by Ewan Leitrimuen. The executive producers of Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Scherr, and Josh Dean. Special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. If you have an obsession you would like to share, hope you do, you can send us an email. The address is obsessed at campsidemedia.com. That's obsessed at campsidemedia.com. And hey, if you enjoyed the show, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Really appreciate you listening.

50:18Thank you.