The Dogist is obsessed with dogs

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0:22Welcome to David Greene is Obsessed, everyone, where we explore obsessions, mostly the obsessions of my guests. but sometimes I like sharing little tidbits about my own life to get us started. And today we're going to spend a lot of time talking about dogs. And I wanted to tell you about Oblio, who was my dog growing up. More than a dog, I considered her kind of like my sister. My actual sister lived with my father. My parents were divorced. So in the house at home, mostly it was just me, my mom, and Obie. and we could not have been more bonded. She was a long-haired black lab, but also a German Shepherd collie mix.

1:07And she was more loyal to me than probably most people in my life. If I was hiking with my mom, she would be running up the trail and then back behind us on the trail to make sure there were no dangers. I think she would stay up as late as I did. She slept in my room every night. If I was on the phone with a girl I liked, like too late past bedtime, I think Obi would roll her eyes, basically. She knew what was going on. She did not like thunderstorms. And so in the middle of the night, if there was thunder and lightning, she would be not just in my bed, but on top of me, literally shaking violently and drooling into my face.

1:49But, you know, you make sacrifices. Yeah, she was very traumatized and wanted protection, and I was glad to give it to her. And I think, you know, when the night before we had to put her down because she was so ill and so aging, it was one of the hardest nights of my life. I just laid on the living room floor with her in my arms and couldn't believe that I had to say goodbye. So dogs really, really important to me. And that's why I'm so excited to talk today to someone who thinks more about dogs, writes more about dogs and interacts more with dogs in his life than anyone in the world. It's The Doggest, Elias Weiss-Friedman.

2:28He has a new book out, and we're going to talk about it when we come right back.

2:39All right, welcome back. I'm so happy to have The Doggest with us on the show today, Elias Weiss-Friedman. He has a new book called This Dog Will Change Your Life. And Elias, thanks for being here. And as you can probably tell from what I just said, I felt like I had a dog who changed my life. And I love dogs. I know you do, too. So thanks for spending a little time with us. Yeah, I'm honored to be here. I'm glad to be with another dog person. Yeah. Well, I think I teared up a little bit reading when you mentioned that you had a best friend in your life when you were growing up who happened to also be a black lab.

3:18Can you tell me a little bit about her? Yeah. Ruby was my first dog my parents got me when I was a kid. And I was kind of a shy kid. And so having Ruby as a best friend was like a very important... She was a very important person in my life because she was always there for me to listen to me. And I felt like I was myself around her the most. I also was good at dog voices and voicing Ruby, canine ventralocism is what I call it. And so she allowed me to express my sense of humor and make my siblings laugh. And I just always thought dogs were hilarious, which they are. and yeah it's like hard to articulate really what it the importance of a dog growing up but it ends up being this like origin story for me very much I've always had dogs whether it was my family's dogs my grandmother's dog Oreo was probably the first dog I ever met and then my dogs Ruby, Matilda and so I can't imagine what our household would feel like without a dog and when i when i think about my life and how the doggest came to be ruby was part of that story and i write about this in my book but one of the things that i never got closure about was that she passed while i was away at college and so i was never there for her at the very end um and so i guess there's a guilt i feel and I felt like a dogstalgia when she left and I needed to fill that void in my heart with something.

5:17And so when the opportunity came for me to start a project, I was like, well, I want to hang out with dogs. I want to meet dogs. I want a dog again. And so even if I couldn't have my own dog, I was able to meet other people's dogs and create a project around them. It all goes back to Ruby. It all goes back to Ruby. And not being there for her in those moments. It's like that kind of is always in the back of your mind. And I feel like it's what she would have wanted me to do. And she's looking down from dog heaven being like... Very proud of you. Yes. What are the voices? I mean, what was the setting where you were being the ventriloquist of Ruby?

5:58uh i mean like um with matilda was our other chocolate lab and she was like my brother and sister's dog so like henry what are you doing uh i'm gonna bite you later not now this is ruby's voice that we're this was this was sort of like my standard default dog voice and uh it was like that was matilda's voice it was probably ruby's voice too um but i would just i loved acting out and you know i kind of have a dry sense of humor myself and being able to play a dog you can become a different person in a way you can play out a character so now i have elsa husky mix not to fast forward but it's the same type of thing you know like if we're having uh chicken for example for dinner it's like yeah mommy always give me big piece of chicken daddy never gives me piece of chicken because he's stingy with chicken oh no chicken night chicken night you gotta want you gotta wonder what ruby and elsa think of your voices like if they're literally sitting there being like that is not my personality in any way shape or form that's a question i hope i that i'm glad i'll never get the answer to yeah right but there is studies that show that dogs like baby talk that they can they can tell the difference between your normal speaking voice and your like doggy like oh who are you good girl you know they like that apparently they know you're communicating with them yeah yeah it's like sweet and that higher pitch voice that they smile and they roll over and they know what it means.

7:48Yeah. So you said you were kind of a shy kid. I think you wrote introvert. That was a word you used. What exactly did the relationship with Ruby do to, I don't know, bring you out more and be more social? I think beyond being a companion and someone to cuddle with at night in to make my siblings laugh because she was like my muse you know uh taking her out for walks meeting people around the neighborhood um you know dogs are like this uh force of socialization you know they're they're they will introduce themselves to whoever you meet and whoever whichever dogs you meet and then by proxy you're meeting that person so or it gets pretty awkward if you're just going to stand there silently as the two dogs are chatting you gotta interact yeah i've been saying recently that before you get a dog you know your neighbor and after you get a dog you know your neighborhood like they just there's just this like um osmosis of like social interaction and the the dogs you know they don't have this self-conscious instinct of like oh i wonder if they'll like me or um i better not say hi because what you know it's awkward they just charge in and sniff butts right and then and then and then you're just kind of like hey what's up oh what's going on you know you just that's just what happened my dog is sniffing your dog's butt right now so i guess we should say hi um yeah and then you get to know the dog's name and and then who knows what could happen maybe nothing much but sometimes you end up meeting you know potential future friends or even significant others or it's just sort of And we're losing that nowadays, right?

9:42Where we're all doing things remotely. We're behind our phones. We date online. We order things online. We get food delivered. And so the things that force us to get, you know, tether us to the real world are more important. So dogs have a key role in today's society, I think, more than they have in the past. no and i i think that's why um you know i think reading your book it felt so much like this is the time for your book in that perspective because we're all so desperate to be drawn back into human interaction um yeah and uh yeah dogs can do something for us in that way even like eye contact like we're having a zoom right it's like i don't know exactly where to look to look at the camera to look at myself to look at you so it counts for something uh but nowadays i feel like generation you know the new generation they don't like know how to eye contact during a conversation they're like aversive with their eyes uh and so the average person you know they get to order their coffee from the barista and they hey hey great good to see you blah blah blah but your dog is one of the most generous uh beings with their eye contact right they'll look at they'll sit there and stare you in the eye into your soul that's very that's very like um nourishing it's very it gives you a release of oxytocin it's like it makes you feel present and um acknowledge that you exist and that this version of your you know one of the things that they do i've heard articulated recently is like we all have these like um constructs of ourselves like i am a photographer and this is who i am and i'm i have a wife and xyz and so we have these constructs of like who we are and then the dog comes up to you and says you're here right now you and me are in the room you're like regardless of what you think of yourself you're wait you're right here and so So it snaps you out of this overthinking, this self-judgment, this who, what's this complex version of myself?

12:03I'm just present with my dog right here on the couch, and we are happy together. And there's nothing like that. I mean, there's just a beautiful simplicity to the relationship at a time when we need that the most, I feel like. You mentioned your grandma's dog, Oreo. oreo saved your life when you were a little kid can you tell us what happened well this is a story my grandmother uh passed away this year uh i'm sorry that's no no it's it's okay she had a great life um but it was a story that she always was embarrassed by because she uh basically my parents when i was a baby left me with my my mother sorry my grandmother while they were going to look for a house and so she was babysitting me and story goes that she went inside to grab a jacket for five minutes left me outside with orio when she came back outside i was gone and how old you were how old i must have been i don't know two oh okay i don't the best idea to leave you alone i mean he was responsible as oreo maybe but give or take i i don't know exactly how those i should ask my mom she would know but um i'd wandered off and so they called the fire department they called the police everyone thought the worst and within you know 20 or 30 minutes a um landscaper spotted me and oreo walking along a busy street and about to cross into an even more busy street and saw that Oreo was keeping me out of the road.

13:46And so who knows whether I was following Oreo or Oreo was following me, but could have gone any other way. I was just in Philadelphia where I grew up and did a piece for the Inquirer, and they had me relive that exact moment. So I walked with Elsa along the same road that I walked with Oreo. Oh, wow. It was a little bit trippy because this is like a glitch in the Matrix or it's a revisiting a piece of history that could have been bad. Bad. I could have died. It could have been bad. You're seeing the busy traffic. I mean, that's probably like coming back and driving home the fact that you as a little kid could have been.

14:35I know. Well, you know, it's like part of me is like, do I even remember this? Or is it a manufactured memory because I've heard the story so many times? But yeah, Ruby, sorry, Oreo was there and perhaps saved my life. Probably did. So I know you, your dad was into photography, right? So this sort of combination of loving and appreciating dogs and being interested in photography was all sort of beginning to brew when you were a kid. Yes. My dad was, he was like a photographer for his college newspaper. He was at Yale. And so he would photograph, you know, he'd shoot film and then spend all his time in the darkroom.

15:24and so growing up he had his dark room and he would take portraits of each of us growing up very like systematically every year we would spend our summer in cape cod in massachusetts and he would sit us down and uh so in the stairwells of our house there's a progression of each of us going through childhood to adolescence you could see every year the evolution that's so cool it is really cool you know i'm really grateful and thankful that he did that because it's so cool as you're saying to see that but that was sort of how i came to be around cameras and experimented you know had a fascination with them and photography and portraiture and uh having you know it's not like i was like sharing my dad's darkroom and like oh i'm gonna be in the darkroom is i was sort of like in there with him but that planet it's so to seed and um and then when it came time to when i was old enough to like take a photography class uh you know i went to this sort of like a day camp called children's school of science during the summer in cape cod and uh they one of the classes was photography and so that really was another sort of early introduction to the medium of photography.

16:49And, of course, if you looked at my contact sheet, a lot of them, it was like flowers, cars, and dogs, as you would imagine. It's a good combination. Yeah, classic teenager or 12-year-old with a camera. And, of course, the photos I submitted to the local county fair were of the dogs and they would always get a ribbon you know like oh i won my picture won best of category animals and so those were all those were all encouraging signs of my future but at the time there was no such thing as social media dog photographer wasn't on the list of professions maybe it is now i mean in kindergarten it is now it is yeah but um even in 2013 when i started the doggest it was a bit of a wild idea to be like an you know an internet influencer yeah take me to that decision i mean what is the first kind of memory you have of like i could like photographing dogs could be my thing i was working at as a brand strategist as an at an agency you know sort of like a regular job and i was learning a lot about storytelling and all that and then i was part of a layoff which uh obviously is like a bit scary but i was secretly like okay this is a chance for me to do something to do one of these projects i have in my back pocket these like fantasies you know of like being a successful artist sure and i had this idea to do a show called barking at dogs where i'd interview people's dogs on world news and like it was absurd and i would get them to bark and then we would subtitle in what their responses would be this is obviously nowadays it's like you see this with like ai every day yeah but in 2013 it was like so and it really was so funny um and i like produced it and filmed it and wrote it and my buddies like were the hosts of it but it was not really sustainable because it was like a little bit um you know getting people's dogs to bark was like a little like invasive it's like how do you get a dog to bark i mean are you like provoking a dog to get animated i mean basically you know i'm like um you know and sometimes the dogs you know they start huffing and puffing yeah yeah you know and uh but but it was impractical and so um i started taking portraits of dogs and then i was like wait what if someone did this sartorialist for dogs or like humans of new york oh this was around the time of those those like um yes those street photography blogs photo essays and yeah yeah and uh so that was sort of like the epiphany like the doggest someone who dogs who goes around and it was a bit of a spin-off like it's a you know dogs don't want to have their picture taken but i will make it feel like they do you know we're like anthropomorphizing them like getting them to look right at the camera and as if they are posing for a portrait that they know is happening which is not the case right you literally have to get them to you have to do something to get them to look for like two seconds right to snap that photo at that yes i have i have a whole host of tricks and to get them to look and that's one of the things that i would that was sort of like what set me apart was that everyone takes pictures of dogs most pictures are of dogs but they're always like looking off a little bit they looks you know they're just a picture of a dog whereas i was taking portraits where the it felt like the dog was looking at you and we're come back to this notion of eye contact right right what's one of the tricks what's what's the like how do you well the the obvious tricks are treats you know i come prepared with a pocket full of treats like hold a treat up and yeah and move it around and bring it right towards the lens and they look at it uh or i have a squeaky ball perfect that will work and then i also make a lot of weird noises and so like so the you know there's like the whimpering puppy like okay that's making me look i mean i'm i'm i know right it works for people too It works for kids and people.

21:10There's this groan, which I call the goat.

21:20It gets the head tilts. What is that? What the hell is this guy doing? It's curiosity. Then there's the... Oh yeah, that one gets me. Those are three of the most common ones I use. Sometimes, if none of those work, I have to dig deep and do some weird combination of the three. If I'm photographing one dog for 10, 15 minutes, sometimes the first noise doesn't work anymore. They've grown used to it. So then you have to come up with a new noise. I take a lot of bad dog pictures too. Not that there is a bad picture of a dog, but ones where the dogs are not looking or it's out of focus. And I'm looking for that moment of direct attention and they're looking right into your soul.

22:08And that is, those are the pictures that I share. And why is that important to you and the photography that you are interested in and obsessed with? It is that feeling of connectedness, right? And that thing that we, one of the things we admire most about our dogs, as we were talking about earlier, is that eye contact, how generous they are with it, how it makes us feel so present, not just in the room but also as a person and as a being right that we are important and so if when a dog looks at you if a person looks at you you feel seen and that the dog loves you and there's something something happening it's funny too because we anthropomorphize our dogs already, right?

23:00We think of them as like people. And so the idea that a dog wants to have its photo taken that knows that you're taking its picture makes them feel like people more than we already, it plays into that funny theory that we have that they're self-aware, which they're not really. No dog has ever known that I'm taking its picture, but I make it feel like they do. when you write about the evolution of um the doggist because you've involved more humans um and and more videos i mean the the videos that you know i think you're best known for now are actually of you approaching people on the streets of new york and having the interaction with the people to learn about their dogs and what they mean to them and getting the photos like what why did the doggist evolve um and how did you evolve along with it yeah well i think i think ultimately the doggist became less of a joke if you if that makes sense where the beginning it was this sort of like dogs you know posing for portraits like people and you were satirizing some of those sites that yes humans of new york and exactly and like i I was taking it very seriously, but there is this tongue-in-cheek aspect of it where it's like a fun game of feeling like the dog is a person.

24:30And then it evolves to be, basically to be a more profound project where it's important, this dog's life, this dog has a whole life and we want to meet the person, their person, who's taking care of them. And wouldn't the dog want their person to be included too? Right? Like if you were to say, well, what do you think of, should your mom be in the photo too? Like, yeah, of course. I love my mom. You should meet my owner. I mean, yeah. So that made sense. And then I would say I was a little bit reluctant at first to sort of come out from behind the curtain. You know, there was something fun about being anonymous as a photographer, right?

25:17Because you feel a little bit more invisible walking around the streets. And people like, oh, where is he? He's sort of like the Banksy effect. Like, we don't know what he looks like. And he just appears like the Batman and makes your dog famous. Yeah. But I think that was also an evolution of an aspect of my shyness and introvertedness. Like, I didn't really want to be part of the, in front of the screen. I'm like, would I be the host? And what will people think of me? And then I'll have this whole public-facing persona. And so I think I was reluctant at first, but there was this sort of pressure, I think, for social media as it evolved to have it be reels.

26:06And by investing in me as a character, that would enhance everything again. because it's like they want to know who I am. And so there was sort of this transition where it's like, okay, I am going to be in front of the camera. The cat's out of the bag. And very quickly I learned that it's something that is a good thing, that I enjoy and I have fun with and brings me out of my shell. And obviously now I've been doing it for a number of years and I've become, I guess you could say, somewhat famous in that way in that I walk around and people, you're the doggest. They recognize me. Yeah, and I'm sure that's on a personal level part of the reason that you just embrace it because I don't know about you.

26:57I feel like a lot of my social anxieties, even as I've gotten older and an adult and an older adult, I mean, they never really go away. And it's people marvel at me because they're like, you're a journalist. Your job is to talk to people. But I still, if I am on the street or on a plane or walk into a party, I still have this social anxiety for the first interaction. Like, what am I going to say to start a conversation? What is someone going to think of me? and I'm just so envious that you have this like very obvious tool now because of who you are and what your brand is to like start a conversation wherever you want to um around dogs and there must be some some endorphin thing going on that makes it just fun to to live your life like that yeah well you know certainly I have uh gained a lot of momentum when it comes to the doggest but I experience the same thing you're talking about if there's no dog in the room oh interesting Like, I'm just a guy, of course.

27:59And so we got to credit where it's due. It's because of the dogs that act as this furry icebreaker, you know, this thing that we have in common. And if you're walking your dog, then instead of this directness of, like, what is your intention, I'm going to ask about your dog. And then we're talking, we're having a conversation, and we can be humans together. But that is just human nature. You know, we have this thought in our head of, well, what if I fail, right? What if they think there's something wrong with me or like I'm being aggressive or they reject me? And my ego wouldn't like that. But dogs don't really have, I mean, obviously some dogs are timid and they are scared.

28:47But generally, they're not thinking, they don't have that thought that we have of like, what if this doesn't go well? They just, you know, they run to the dog park and say, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. And that's it. They don't care. You're newly married, right? Yes. We got married in March. Congratulations. Thank you. I loved reading about your nightly ritual where you walk your dog and then come back and sort of settle in for the night with your dog and your wife. Yes. I'd love you to share that with everybody because it's really lovely. Yeah. Well, every night I give her her last walk and I come back and we have to deliver the poopy pee pee report.

29:38Elsa, did you hear what happened? everyone's talking about it yeah i said what double ppm poo poo you know it's like the most common conversation between dog parents is like what happened you know all systems are going well and then um sam my wife will get into bed first and then i'll go uh into the room and see elsa's in my spot it's like oh look who's keeping that daddy's spot warm and uh elsa's like it's okay you can sleep in the other room if you want you snooze you lose this is my spot now so anyway there's just a uh constant source of humor and uh that our dogs want to be around us you know that's sort of like one of the if you were to define what love is one of the aspects would be like oh you want to be around them so the fact that our dogs like that Elsa just like jumps in the bed when we're in there because she wants to be with us like that's an amazing feeling of like pure love you know it's like yeah my wife and I love each other but we have the same we're human right we're not going to be like um all you know lovey-dovey all the time that's just normal but with the dog they just have completely unabashed it they just Like every, every moment is like another opportunity to express their love for you.

31:05Well, and there's something about like Elsa, Elsa's probably not judging you at all, but I'm just, I feel my wife and I don't have a dog now. It makes me sad. We want to get one. We travel a ton. She didn't have dogs growing up. Long story. But I bet maybe talking to you will persuade, persuade us to get a dog again because they were so important to me growing up. But it's like if we're going to bed in a wrong, I don't want to say the wrong mind space, but like both checking our phones or stressed out about what the next day is going to be. You're preoccupied. Having a dog there keeping an eye on that almost makes you self-critical in a good way.

31:39Like, oh, maybe I should just be like cuddling with my dog and my partner right now and not being on my phone and not being in a nasty mood or stressed out about what tomorrow is going to bring. And your dog can tell. They can sort of smell your stress probably in some way. you know, your cortisol, and they know that you're not paying attention to them. And so they will paw you and bring you back to the present. And then your wife will also be like, Oh my God, it's so cute. Like we're a happy family. And like the dog creates that energy when otherwise you would be addicted to the phone. And I mean, that's just, that's just the world we live in nowadays where the algorithms are so good that they're so entertaining.

32:21So in order to break away from that, You need something like a dog who's going to literally sit on your chest and make sure that you are more present and connected. Yeah. You said that you hope the Doggist can be the antidote to the rest of the internet that is like a force of bad in our culture. Say more about what role you hope the Doggist can play for us in today's society. Yeah, well, I think it's sort of a continued extrapolation of what we're talking about, where it's like there's all these forces at play on the internet, right? When you go on the internet, you're seeing things you don't have, places you aren't currently and probably have never been, shocking news about the world, about politics.

33:09These are all things that are meant to trigger you and to make you engage with it in an oftentimes negative way. and so that's that's the currency of the internet and to getting your attention and dogs can do the same thing but it's not bad for you i think you know like it's a source of joy it's a source of light it's a source of connectivity you know dogs are one of the few things that we all agree upon these days right if you're a dog person you automatically like them more whereas if they're not you're like oh like we what are we going to talk about like i don't know um so of all the things that you see on the internet in my mind dog content is one of the things that is like not just neutral but positive i think and i hope you know a source uh you know that's making you actually feel better about your life instead of worse so i i'm fighting the good fight you know i I want to have a positive impact on the world.

34:18I want to be a source of light. And dogs are my subjects to help do that. And The Doggest is my project to help do that. My last dog-related question before we get on to a few other things. You did clear up in your book, which I very much appreciated, this question of do people's dogs resemble them? I think you used the term doggoganger. Yes. You have definitive proof that when you see someone on the street and you're thinking to yourself, oh, my God, their dog looks exactly like a dog version of this person. Yeah. There is proof that this is actually happening, right? Yeah. I mean, when you see it, it's amazing, right?

35:01Like it's amazing. You almost laugh out loud. I try not to, obviously. There's like a visual juxtaposition. Clearly, this person is going for this look or an aesthetic.

35:19That happens, but not every day. Most people I meet are out for a casual walk, and sometimes they're coordinated. I think oftentimes people will have a dog, and then they will dress more like their dog. Sam will come out wearing all white, and Elsa is all white. Oh, oh, this is awkward. We're matching. Uh-oh. I guess I shouldn't wear my fur coat. And again, that's my only option. Right. Exactly, yeah. But I think we become more like our dogs, even if it doesn't start that way. Obviously, a lot of people have a vision in their mind of like, oh, well, this is my style, so I'm going to get a dog that sort of fits in with that.

36:09And so it seems more clear and obvious. You see a person who's very posh walking a poodle with a haircut. Of course, that's a funny thing. Perfectly groomed, yeah. Right. But people who rescue a dog that's a one-of-a-kind mutt, and then they end up dressing more eccentrically or to match them in some way, that can be striking too. I think you know it when you see it. Yeah, and we see it. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break. I'm with The Doggest, and we're going to come right back and talk about a few other types of obsessions.

36:50We're back with some more David Green is Obsessed. I'm with Elias Weiss-Friedman, who's author of This Dog Will Change Your Life. He is better known as The Doggest on social media. um eliza i wonder for people who are not dog people um but are interested in a lot of the benefits that you've talked about being able to feel less lonely being able to rediscover human connection being brought out from kind of a shy introverted place is there another obsession that comes to mind that you think has the same kind of characteristics and qualities of a dog obsession um or is it just is it truly one of a kind well i think uh you know there are other things that bring people together in a positive way like music like sports even if it's like we're pretending to hate each other it's like all good fun yeah with when it comes to sports uh so you know those create source of connection and pride and uh you know when you listen to music you feel better right it's like cathartic and it's an experience totally um but you know music is it can feel like it's alive and i love sports you know i'm a huge tennis fan because it's very real right it's just like it's a it is a game but you know it's like very objective it's very based in reality and like what happened um so those are i guess are two examples obviously spending time with your family and friends.

38:26You know, those are moments that create source of connection and being present. But also, you know, other types of pets. I know people love their cats, other types of pets. I remember just this last weekend, there was the blessing of the animals at St. John the Divine Church in the city. And I think it happens, you know, around the world for whatever sect of Christianity. I forget exactly. But I went last year with Elsa, and it's like this beautiful ceremony in this gorgeous church in New York. And they bless all the animals. And so there's camels that walk through. There's cattle. There's goats, pigs.

39:10They actually have a thing of like oysters. Like it's every time. Yes. Wow. It's like a Noah's Ark of a whole manger. and um there to be blessed people bring all types of their pets and even pictures of their pets if they can't bring them or maybe the uh their pets passed away but the priest is out there after the ceremony taking a minute with each person to bless their pets and it's like a beautiful thing and i remember him saying like you know i don't fully understand the love that people have for their boa constrictors like snakes like he he personally doesn't identify with snakes but he's in awe of the love that people have for their snake you know it's like a beautiful thing and so whatever animal it is that you choose to have a connection with whether obviously dogs are one of the most popular ones but whether it's your cat your guinea pig your rabbit your boa constrictor your parrot those are all aspects of the same type of relationship of like being more connected with our animal selves because we are animals even though we think we're not you know we're we're basically like one step away from chimpanzees i um was recently inspired because uh i had the honor of meeting jane goodall before she passed literally like three weeks ago like i was one of the last she passed a week after i met her oh it was very fortuitous incredible you had that chance wow what a loss but she talks about this connection with animals and how they provide a hope for us to feel like we're part of this world and not to destroy this world and it feels like we're in dark times partially because we are and animals are one of the ways that we can try and get out of that and to have a better future.

41:09This connection with earth and with the beings around us and to not be as antagonistic towards one another. I could not agree more. Let me finish with just, I'm wondering if you will give us a reveal. You're known for your dog obsession as the doggest. What is another obsession that you've only told your wife and dog about until this very moment? Well, I already mentioned tennis. I like other classic guy obsessions like cars. I love sports cars. I used to have a sports car. I want one in the future. I just like the feeling. It's not a living thing, but um feeling connected to uh like with a manual transmission you know stick feeling like you're engaging with a machine that almost is alive and so analog things i feel like dogs are an analog thing they like are part of um the world and like you you feel a connection with your your pets and so i feel like sports cars make me feel alive when i'm driving them you know it's not just like you're pressing a button it's not a to b it's like you're engaging your body and the wind in your hair and the smell and the sounds and um i would say that's an obsession that i never talk about the manual transmission thing it is so real and the number of people um who don't who aren't even open to appreciating that they i think it's crazy and like it's more work i mean i love driving a stick shift and you nailed it it's like that relationship yeah with the machine it's a dance and i feel bad for people who won't give it a try yeah no it is an absolute dance there's a huge uh barrier to entry because it's like well i can drive a car but i can't drive this car and it's going to take a lot of frustration and time and uh smelling of the clutch before i figure it out and it's i feel dangerous so i'm just not going to do it yes and and all these cars are disappearing anyway so what's the point well there is still a point it's just more niche right every day, you know?

43:25Yep. Here's to driving stick. Well, Elias, thank you. Elias Weiss-Friedman, you know him as the doggist. Check out his new book. It's called This Dog Will Change Your Life. It's really lovely. And Elias, thanks for chatting. Thank you for having me. It's been really fun.

43:46David Green is Obsessed as a production of Campside Media. It is hosted by me, David Green. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. We are mixed by Ewan Leitrimuen. The executive producers of Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Scherr, and Josh Dean. Special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. If you have an obsession you would like to share, hope you do, you can send us an email. The address is obsessed at campsidemedia.com. That's obsessed at campsidemedia.com. And hey, if you enjoyed the show, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Really appreciate you listening.

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