Ray Winstone is dazzled by pan-fried Dover sole with buttery capers and shallots

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1:18Yeah. And it's not the greatest thing in the world for you, by any means. But up here it is. Absolutely. I've got the biggest head in the world. My head's as big as Bournemouth, you know? You've got a big canister, haven't you? Yes, seriously. Yes. Canister's crazy. You have got tomato. Canister is crazy. Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.

1:51Hello, welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I'm Nick Grimshaw. And I'm Angela Hartnett. Oh my God, you are. Hi. Don't touch me. Why? Because you're about to ridicule me. I'm not. Yes, you are. We say we're going to talk about Ray Winston. Yes, our guest today, Ray Winston. We'll talk about capers. And you're about Elaine, because I wrote your mother's name wrong. I know you're not an idiot. We've not talked about it. We don't need to publicly talk about it. It really tickled me. so much, so much. It sent me when I read this. I was crying laughing. It really, really tickled me. Basically, I posted a picture of me, my mum on Instagram.

2:31Yes. My mum. She looks amazing by the way. Eileen. Yep. And my mum and Angela commented, love Elaine's hat bag. My mum's called Eileen. And it's just a silly thing. Silly thing. You've gone all week, didn't you? Days. Days, days. Until I did something else stupid that you could laugh at. No. It's like Terry. He's called Terry, but I called him Dave for about six months. No. And now I call him Dave. He works with Neil, and I go send my love to Dave. From the French house. And Neil goes, Terry, oi, Dave. She sends a love. No, Dave. You know Terry. Yeah, I do know Terry, yeah. A.K.A. Dave. A.K.A.

3:12Dave. Oh, shout out to Terry or Dave and Eileen. Or Elaine. Ray Winston's on Dish today. Get his name right. Yes. Have you met Ray before? Never. I feel like Ray could go down Murano. I think so. Sink a nice bottle of red. Don't you think? Are you going to do a Ray impression in front of Ray? I don't think I will, no. Okay. Have you not done that? No. When you're at his daughter's wedding, you're going to do a few Ray impressions. No, no, no, no. Okay, all right. I'm not going to do a Ray impression to Ray. To Ray, okay. Just behind his back. Just behind his back, yeah. Like a normal person. Yeah.

3:41So yeah, Ray's going to be here soon. a true legend, Ray Winskey. Yes. So many great things. Quadrophenia, of course, sexy beast, scum. Nil by mouth. Nil by mouth. Departed. But he's here to talk about the brand new series of The Gentleman, but also his life in Sicily. So he'll be here soon to talk all about that. But before we get Ray in, should we talk about this week's star ingredient? Star ingredient. Well, because we're cooking with it today. Yes. All right. We're going to make him Dover's soul. And we're doing it with this lovely meniere, which is basically cooked in flour. And what finishes off is these wonderful capers.

4:16Capers, lemon and parsley. And capers, you and I love capers. I love capers. Because they go in so many things. So you can have the brined ones or you can have ones that are packed in salt. And these are the tiny non-parade capers, which are these tiny little ones. And these are right at the start of the season. So they've basically got picked the early season. So they're really tender. They have the purest flavor. And they've got that saltiness to them that we all love, but slightly sharp as well. So they're great for things like, that's why they're wonderful in tartare sauce. That's why they're great with fish because they can lift stuff or you can put them in, you know, little salads.

4:50They're great with chicken as well. I think, you know, I love them in, obviously a putonesca is wonderful. So anything that sort of needs this, it's not bland, but it just needs a little kick. This does it. Capers are the perfect thing. They're great on vitello tonnato. They're good with like cured beef, like a beef carpaccio or beef tartare. you can put a few capers through it. That's it, all those things. And then you've obviously got the big caper berries here, which you can use in salads or you can put them on dishes as well. And then these are the salted ones. But make sure you wash these about at least for 10 minutes just to get that salt preserved in salt.

5:25But you need to wash that salt off. Otherwise, yeah. Oh, I just whack that in. That is salty. Yeah, that is salty, yeah. Because these are brined, so this is slightly different. So that's fine. They're sort of brined to an ingredient, a recipe. So they're fine. but when they're in the salt, they're packed to preserve them so you need to wash that salt off. Okay. You actually have caperberry leaves as well. Right, right, right. So you can use the leaves and stuff as well. I love caperberries. I do. I just don't have them like that. I'll be a bit cheesy, isn't it? Yeah, perfect. Right, should we get Ray in?

5:51Yep, let's get him in. Let's get Ray Winston in. All right, lovely to meet you. Right, you too, hon. You all right? You okay? I'll just meet you. I know, but we've got to do it again for cameras. Oh, for the cameras. I know, I know. I thought a memory had gone. You all right, though? Are you good? You ready? Yeah, I've been working this morning. But it was all good, you know, as you get older. The things you used to hate as a kid, like photo shoots and all that. I hate them, you know, talking to the press and all that sort of stuff. But as you get older, you kind of realise it's part of the game, isn't it?

6:24And then as long as you know that, you start to enjoy it. And I've had some fun this morning. Oh, yes. Yeah, it's all going to switch. It's all going to go downhill. Well, come on in and we'll get you sat and get you a drink. You go over there, Ray, we'll get you a seat. What's that olive bread you got there? Focaccia. Focaccia. I got caught years ago.

6:50A very exciting day today on Dish Angela because we welcome an actor with a food palette who travels all the way from the East End of London to the coast of Sicily. We're talking, you know, jelly deals to gelato. We've got it all going on today. He's a man of serious taste. and we can't wait to learn all about it a round of applause for Ray Winston everybody thank you everyone thank you Ray for coming pleasure how are you? I'll do anything for a free meal I suppose I'm really good at the moment I feel good in myself I had shingles in November and it took me until February to get over there have you ever had that?

7:31no but serious it really is horrible but you know I stopped training for a little while because I go to walks and all that and now I'm just getting back into it yeah nice but I'm kind of feeling probably the best I've felt for many years oh good you look great yeah you look really good let me have another drop of that fingers made change yeah you've got glasses as well yeah you're really good always good glasses I feel yeah I like that yeah they're a serious pair good colour you've got a good face that suits glasses you do well I've got the biggest head in the world. My head's as big as Bournemouth, you know?

8:08And you know when you used to wear little glasses and I look absolutely ridiculous. So I've got to have a big pair of bins on, you know? Yeah, I've got big heads. I've got a big pair. Yeah, you always have a big canister. Yeah, you've got a big canister. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, a canister's crazy. You have got some head. A canister is crazy. My dad did as well. My dad had a massive head. My dad looked like, he looked about 48 from a child. and he always looked really old and then once he got to 50 everyone was like he looks so young because he sort of looked like this is like 25 you know the trouble is your body shrinks right so your head sort of gets bigger it's just the body's getting smaller the body gets smaller and the head gets bigger Jesus have you guys ever met before?

8:54no I'm surprised at that I thought you would have maybe seen each other in a restaurant or at Dew or something we don't knock a bat in the same suit Rival gangs It's posh no shit We were very excited about you coming on because as I said we mentioned Sicily there there's so much to talk about with the great food of Sicily and I know that you're a mad food fan and stuff but I wanted to know how come you wound up in Sicily first of all how come it was Sicily I went there about 30 years ago first time I went there and just fell in love with the place. I'll tell you what's different about that to the mainland of Italy, for me anyway, you know.

9:37It's so cultured, Italy. As you come through it, it looks beautiful. You know, you get the disciples' trees and everything looks like it should be there. There's some sort of reality and sort of earthiness about the place. And I kind of felt at home. And going to the towns, you know, kids just running about. It was like London was, or the East End was, 40 years ago, in a way. So maybe, as I've got older, you kind of yearn for that kind of community kind of feel again, you know. And so for me, that was it. I love Sicily. I like it also, because I think a lot of Italy is still like 20, 30 years behind the rest of it.

10:17And I love that about it. I love the fact the shop's shut on a Wednesday afternoon. Nothing's open on a Sunday except the bakery. This was a while ago. I was in Sicily in Notto. and this car was coming around the bend and to avoid him, I swerved and smashed into this wall. I was fine, but the car was a bit... And I rang the garage about one o 'clock and they just laughed at me. Adesso mangiare, non posso? You know, we're eating. What's the matter with you? We're not going to come and get you. You just stay by your car till we finish lunch, then we'll come and get you. That's it. It's very civilised.

10:46I can live that life, you know. No, but you know when you first go there? Yeah. And you live there, you know, you'd be driving through a town and everyone's staring at you. you think, the f*** are you staring at? You know? Well, you are Ray Winston. Yeah, no, but they do it to everyone. They stare at anything. Yeah, they do. And the other thing is you'll pull up behind a car and he's wound the window down and they'll have a rabbit with one another for about ten minutes. Yeah. Now, in London, you'll be like, there you just sit there. Take your time. You light up a cigar, you sit there and you let them finish because it's piano, piano.

11:22Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tranquil, yeah. And do you know what? You feel much better for it. Yeah. You just chill out, you know? Yeah. It's very civilised. Oh, I think so, yeah. Could you ever imagine decamping to Italy, Ange? Oh, I definitely could. Would you get grief if you lived not where your family were from? No, I don't think so. No, I'd love to. I think Sicily's amazing. Where's your family from? They're from near Bologna, Emilia Romagna. Oh, Moderna. Yeah, Moderna. Literally about an hour from Moderna. I'll stay there when I drive down. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, the food's amazing, but I love the climate in Sicily and I love the fact it does feel like it's 30, 40 years ago.

11:58That for me is so, it should be, you know, nothing's rushed. You know, and the market's on that day and you get that fish that day and you have this on that. I like all that. What about when they go, when can I have it? You know, you're getting something done, a bit maintenance. When can I have it? I've learned now, you know. They go, Mr. A, Tuesday. What f***ing Tuesday? which year because it never is going to come when they say yeah when you turned up and you decided you know we're going to go out there because you were out there quite a lot the majority of the time or like split it I guess so yeah I mean you know what you get to a stage where you go here if you're lucky enough to be able to do that you know and it's pissing down with rain and you know and you're sitting there you ain't at work you ain't doing nothing And you think, what am I going to do today?

12:52It's only if you can just walk out and sit out in the garden and, you know, and I kind of like it. I feel healthier there. The first time I'd been to Sicily was for your Jamie's wedding. Yeah, that's right, yeah. And I'd never been to Sicily before and I had the best time. And me and our friends. Scorpello, what's it like? Unreal, that place. Because it was like an old, was it a fish? Yeah, I think something like to do with sardines or something like that years ago. And I mean, what they've done with the place. and people can go there and just visit for the day and all that stunning unbelievable place I loved it and we had a little visit around and like travelled all around we had the best time but I heard for like the wedding or if you have a big do that you have to invite everyone from the town like you can't just be like it's just the Winstons and their mates you've got to invite the neighbourhood well they might say that but we didn't do that we invited the people we knew you know otherwise it would have been like sort of 3 ,000 people there was a lot there I've got to tell you when you see a Sicilian and go to a do and the food's all free, it lasts about two seconds.

13:57We went on holiday to Puglia a few years back and there was two friends of mine and my husband and I used to drive them every morning to the cafe because they loved having a coffee and a grappa and we got this reputation this woman would turn up with three men and order three coffees and a grappa in the village. And guada, quella donna, con questa di woman here. But I like that civilisation that it's a habit. You know, that you just get into that. Coffee, the morning coffee is quite important. It is, yeah. Because that's where you kind of see everyone. And you know what's going on. Two minutes, they come in, boom.

14:30And if you notice, the coffee is warm, cold, you know. So they just down it and go to work. So I sit there and then we coffee, I have caldor, make the coffee hot. Yeah, same. You know. I also have a nice cup of coffee and sometimes a little cake or something, if I fancy it. and just sit there and watch the world go by. And then you start having a little chat with people, you know, because a lot of them speak English, you know, because the family and that, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love how they have a little cake for breakfast in Italy. Yeah, but it's too Moorish. They do one there, they do like a cornetta, with cherry in it.

15:08Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. And sometimes they put a little bit, they call it crema. Oh, yeah. The creme is custard. Yeah. No, baby, it's custard. I love it. Grim sounds better, doesn't it? Yeah, Grim. What a bit of custard. With breakfast. Yeah, yeah. So you have one of those. But the trouble is, next time you're going to eat one or another one. Ray, we always like to get our guests food likes and dislikes right at the start of the podcast. Yeah. We were so excited about this. A bit of an anticipation around your list. Because everyone was like, what's he going to like? What's he not going to like?

15:44This is quite amazing. There was a sort of intake of breath as this arrived in the dish office. as you titled this for the first time ever in hundreds of episodes, Answers for Chef Angela. Loved Chef Angela. Thank you, Ray. Thank you. Given her official title. Yeah, I like that. Chef Angela. We'll start on the dislikes. You kicked it off by saying there isn't much in the way of food I don't like. No, I'll eat anything. Yeah, I'll have anything. Try anything. Not saying you're going to like it, but you know, give it a go. Yeah, exactly. Moving on to your favourite things. You said roast river beef, leg of lamb, slow cooked, four to five hours with all the bits.

16:22That's the lamb. That's the lamb. Not the beef. No. No. See the beef, gosh, in the oven, lovely. Yeah. The leg of lamb. Lovely. Just started doing it four or five hours. I do it sometimes on a cider. And I think we let cider come up for it. Not being fancy, I just fancy doing it. You love a ruby. Oh, yeah. You also love a new ruby, Murray Curry. I've never heard of Lillian. A Lillian Gish. Never heard of Lillian Gish. God damn it. Did you know about Lillian? I didn't know Lillian, no. No, I didn't know about Lillian. Actress. I guess back in the day, the 20s and 30s. I'll probably go off my granddad.

17:01A bit of Lillian. Lillian Gish, yeah. A bit of Lillian Gish, I love that. You love sashimi, wing of skate, and also pie and mash. Do you have a spot? Is there a place that does the pie and mash? Yeah, West Ham. When we go and watch West Ham. You can't really go to West Ham without having pie and mash because that's where you're from. It's your roots. And to be quite honest with you, I was never a lover of pie and mash before I moved away from there. And it's only in recent years that I've – because my dad always said, you want to eat that filth full? Yeah. It's no good. Leave it at you. Anyway.

17:33But when you go back to where you came from, it's part of the culture where you come from. Yeah, of course. And I started eating and I really like it. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I mean, listen, you can have all the fancy dishes in the world, but that kind of goes, that's home. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's not the greatest thing in the world for you by any means, but up here it is. Yeah. Absolutely. But it's also the memories, I think. Yeah, of course. It's family. It's all that connection. I have that with fish and chips. First thing I have, when I come home from anywhere, fish and chips. Yeah. And maybe the next day, if we don't cook nothing, a ruby.

18:06Yeah. Yeah, because it is what it is, you know. You know that. You ain't going to get that in Sicily. No, you don't. A ruby? No. A curry? No. No, no, no, no. Maybe a bit of chilli, that's it. A little tiny chilli. Yeah, because I think when you're, I'm the same with you with, like when I was growing up, I always hated what my mum, no offence to my mum, what my mum would be making, if she'd be making like potato ash or a roast dinner, and also it was like bland and like boring, and now I love all that. I want that. Do you know when they talk about, you go abroad and, especially in America, they say, you know, but the British food is so bland.

18:41and so, really? Yeah. You know, the city of London and Manchester and Liverpool and places like that, you can get anything you want that's quality. Trouble is you've got to pay a price for it. Yeah. Nine times out of ten, you know? But the food is not brand. And listen, roast beef and Yorkshire puddings, roast potatoes with carrots and parsnips, right? Are you kidding me? Yeah, yeah. What? I'm going to have Sunday brunch in Beverly Hills. Yeah, I'm going to have post-takes with hash browns. Really? Yeah, yeah. No comparison. I'm having a roast beef, river beef. Thank you for having me. All day long, you know.

19:23They're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong. Yeah, yeah. That's great. I love this. You finished your likes by writing, the list goes on. Yeah, the list goes on. I love that. At the end. One thing that you did talk about was a guilty pleasure, which she said, your guilty pleasure without question was caramel. Yeah, I got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Right. So one of the reasons I stopped drinking, you know, made up in mind I was going to do that, having said that, sugar. Yes. And I thought, I eat a lot of sugar, you know, I do. You know, it's in drinks, it's in Coca-Cola, it's in everything.

20:00So I stopped it and within five months I didn't have type 2 no more. Oh, yeah. But I'll have in the fridge caramel ice cream, salted caramel ice cream. Okay, yeah. And every now and then, all right, because I've been a good boy, I've done everything the right way, I'll get a bowl like that and I'll put my caramel ice cream in loads of it with a load of dribble of honey over or treacle. Or treacle. And the mat. Oh, yes. And afterwards I'm like that. Sugar coma. But every now and then taste. You've got to do that. Every now and then. Yeah, you need it every now and then. It's yours, Ange. Mine's a chocolate ice cream.

20:41I don't like sweet stuff, but I like the bitter and the sugary and the chocolate. Yeah, I do. Chocolate, but stracciatella's my favourite. Yeah. And actually in Italy, I don't really eat sweet stuff here, but in Italy, every night, because you go out for a nice walk after supper, and we always go for an ice cream. It's just a habit. You do it. Just for you to go in the broth. I love it. Yeah, exactly. You have a great, you know, and the ice cream is gelato. It's so delicious. We also heard that you're a keen cook. You love to cook. You love to do that. It's a question of what I've had to. Being away from home, working, when you're abroad, you can't go out every night because you've got work to do when you get home.

21:18And so it's a question you learn to cook, watching your mum when you was a kid. Yeah, of course. But I think the great thing about that is you start, not experimenting, but you put things in that you like. I'm going to get you a bit of fish now. A bit of Lillian. what do you make then that's like the family favourite what do they all love you making I guess a rib of beef yes you know I I enjoy making that you know and getting it just right and have you always liked cooking has it always been or has it been through I think I think the more you do it yeah and the more you get it right and it's actually I've heard people say and I tell you before it's very therapeutic and I've always gone well I love the box but it is it's quite true actually, you know.

22:02I mean, I don't know how you feel, Ange, because you do it every day of your life, you know, it's your living, you know. No, but I do. I like, I mean, that's why I've sort of liked it. I've always loved it. I always used to cook with my mum and my grandmother. Yeah, but is it different when it's your kind of job? Well, I think, I think probably, I think you've got to love doing it. Because I think if you don't, you see it. I know that sounds silly, but it's certainly if you run restaurants. If you've fallen out of love with them, you should just get out. Right. Because it will show in how you sort of look after the restaurant, how you look after the food and stuff.

22:31So I think you've got to love it and you've got to want to every day sort of go in and work and hope, you know, and like it. It's a hardcore job though. It is a hardcore job. It really is. But I think the rewards are great and I think if, you know, you enjoy it. And the great thing is the satisfaction when people love it, you know. Yeah. Like we had this mum and her daughter in on Saturday and she lived in Australia. The mum lived in Ireland and she'd just flown out that morning from Australia and they met for Murano for lunch. And they said, that's it, we just came here for lunch. Not, you know, you know all the way from Australia and I don't know yeah that's where you say that's where her daughter lived and she goes you know I don't see her as much so now I want to see her so we come in here for lunch and we've loved it we listen to the podcast it's great you know so it's all nice gosh a long way to go for dinner isn't it that's how good Murano is yeah that's how good we are it's kind of fantastic it's kind of a fantastic story yeah absolutely yeah I mean I guess it's like a great way we were talking or reading a thing before where you talked about a great you know thing to break down barriers is this is sitting around a table I mean, food, you know.

23:31But that for me is the bigger thing. I always say, you know, people go, your best meal. I say, it's not the fanciest or the most expensive. It's about who I'm with. And our best meal was always, we always talk about it. It was millennium, before the millennium sort of new year, it was Christmas. We were in Italy and it was just the family. We were in the local sort of restaurant. And it was like 150 quid for 12 of us. And then we all followed the snow truck up the road because we were all going up the hills. And it's still like one of, we all of us say that was one of our best meals as a family because it was just all about us round the table together.

24:02Do you know, I was sitting outside my gaff with an old boy called Tony Abella. He's got pig strotters. And Jackie, his wife, does them in tomato sauce. Oh, yeah. And they're messy. I mean, they're all messy, pig strotters. And we just sit there. He's got his braces on, his derby hanging out. Fry's undone and he's sitting there at the table. And we're both sitting there and we're just eating these pig strotters and just covered in tomato sauce all over us. and he just started laughing and you just sit there and laugh for about an hour you know drinking wine and eating his truck that's the way to eat I mean that that's the way to do it that's it isn't it you know that's the way to do it and as you say you know sitting there like that in the rest of you know when everyone's whispering and all that that's not what food's about food's about giving it throwing it about I love what Henry Dave used to know throw the chicken leg it's great isn't it it should be fun Yeah, I know what you mean.

24:59I love having the ape shout out. Love why he did when he threw it like that. Yeah, he threw it. Are you growing stuff out there? Are you growing food and stuff? Yeah, I've got not many almond trees. I've got a few almond trees, some pistachio. But I've got olives, olive trees. And a lot of them were already there when I bought the land and I've planted a lot more. I keep planting more and more. Finding out where they should be and how you should plant them. learning a lot more about it, you know. We've got oregano on the land, you know, and we've got fennel. Fennel's just natural. It just grows there anyway, you know.