Barry Hearn’s Brutal Blueprint for Building a Global Sporting Empire

27:27He hasn't gone, you know, Bertie Big, whatever, you know. He just plays darts. And he loves it, clearly, and he loves being the centre of attention. I'm sure he loves earning millions and millions of pounds. And he's worth every single penny and more because of what he's done for the sport and for himself. So it is a sort of a mutual thing. I think there were more personalities per participant 30 or 40 years ago. The stories were better. Their stories were more generally built around the struggle. And today, we don't struggle as much because life is a lot fairer. There's unemployment money. There's benefits.

28:08There's lots of things that you can do. There's the black economy. There's a million things to get by. But what you're looking for is people that want to make a real impression on the world. And there's not that many of them at the moment. No. And who do you think is the single most left an impression on the world sports person you've ever worked with? Oh, goodness me. There's been so many. I mean, again, we're just talking with the UK footprint, because if you look at the world's a big place, you know, so did Mahmoud Ali make her. I mean, I met him a couple of times, but sadly towards his latter years.

28:46But he left an impression that's unbelievable today. Mike Tyson to his own extent. George Foreman in another way, you know, with eight sons or whatever and a fortune out of a kitchen utensil. But at the same time, a preacher and someone who – people have got a story to tell. I think this is where people get confused with me, Eddie, whatever. You know, business people, yeah, yes. But we're really storytellers. And that's the storyteller because without narrative, we don't have anything to talk about. We don't have, you know, you need something. Tell me something about you, you know. I got eight snooker players together in the 80s and said, right, we're in a soap opera.

29:28This is our world. So let's just talk about what your role is in that soap opera. Dennis Taylor? Yes. You're the funny Irishman. You just tell jokes. Terry Griffiths? Ibar? You're a Welsh. Everyone in Wales thinks they can sing. So while you're playing snooker, can you sing or hum? Jimmy White. Jimmy, you can't read or write. People know that. But you can work out an eight horse accumulator faster than I've ever known. And he went round like that. And we got Steve Davis and said, Steve, you're the boring one. You wear a white shirt, black suit, you drink water, and you never talk to anyone. Okay, so I can do that.

30:09And you start creating the narrative that builds sportsmen and women. And they've all got something. You know, I don't know what it is, but everyone's different in their DNA. You know, everyone is better than someone else in the world, than everyone else in the world at something. A lot of them don't discover what that is. Our job is to get inside the personality and build from inside. It has to be natural, otherwise it sounds so staged. If you give someone a line to say, you know, it doesn't come across the same. So the narrative of an individual is what people will latch on to. And that will make them like a soap opera, follow their heroes, be interested in their adversaries, have a favourite or someone they don't like.

31:01It doesn't matter whether you're liked or not. It matters if you sell tickets and attract ratings. And on that note, is there an argument that maybe the greatest ever sportsman and most marketable sportsman is Ronnie O'Sullivan? At this moment in time, we're judging Ronnie as a snooker player. Let's not get carried away. So he's not Muhammad Ali. As an existing sportsman. He's a professional. He would be in the top dozen. That's ever lived of any sport. Yes, in this country. I mean, you go back, you say Dennis Compton, for example, in cricket. Yeah, but think how... You go about Billy Wright in football.

31:42Yeah. Ryan Giggs. I mean... George Best, Bobby Moore. Yeah, I mean, all those are great, but I just... Has Ronnie not defined... Defied everything? Longevity of his career. Longevity is unbelievable. Ability, scale of ability, right-handed, left-handed, shots that other people haven't even seen. he can produce things that other people don't even consider. So he has to be right up there. I'm just concerned that you don't make anyone number one because depending on the angle that you're approaching it, there's lots of people in this country, believe it or not, that never heard of Ronnie O'Sullivan.

32:22They don't follow the sluka, they don't know. Other people would still say Steve Davis, who's my best friend, was the better player. Actually, not true. Even Steve would tell you he wasn't anywhere close to where Ronnie is. Yeah. But the fact is that he's a huge name and has performed over an elongated period beyond anyone else's. I mean, Mark Williams won a snooker tournament the other week, which made him the oldest winner of a ranking event. I think he's 52. Yeah. That is incredible. The level of competition that exists today within snooker is so much higher than it was because these guys can all play.

33:04And they've actually gone through the Davis and Hendry notebook and just gone and played hours upon hours. It doesn't do a lot for your conversational skills, but it makes you a bloody good player. Silver has crashed. It's back to its price in 1974, and I'm going to buy more. And if you'd like to learn how to invest and build multiple streams of recurring income, I recommend you join Money.School. Money.School is my global financial education platform to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. For less than four Starbucks coffees a month, there are hundreds of hours of courses, resources and masterclasses going back a decade to teach how to make, manage and multiply money and gain financial freedom.

33:45So join thousands of other money and freedom seekers on the link money.school and start today your journey to financial freedom and more money. Would you sell part of your company to Saudi investors, Barry? Absolutely. You would? It's money. What do you want? It's money. What am I working for? I work for money. What about control, though? Surely you want control of your own company. Yes. But everything has a price. Don't ever get so big-headed you think you run the world. Oh, I'm not, by the way. I don't think I run the world. Bill Gates has a price. You know, Elon Musk has a price. Yeah. It's just life.

34:21In our world, we have a simple philosophy. Firstly, family first. We say business is a close second. But family comes first. Yeah. So the only interest I've got is making sure that my family, direct, and my family in the future. Families that I don't even know, my legacy, I hope, will be to influence several generations of Hearns. Let's hope I don't mess it up. But at the same time, you look at restrictions on yourself in different ways. There's a certain level of money that goes beyond any restriction. So in other words, what I'm saying is I can be really, you know, snooty with you and say, oh, you can't buy, you know, you can't buy me for that.

35:06There's a level. And there's a level for every single person in the world. Some levels might be a trillion, might be a billion. Some levels might be 30 quid. It just depends on where you are, you know. It just depends on where you are. And you've got to look at yourself in the mirror and say, is this a good deal for me and my family? And if it is, then you take it. And if it's not, you turn them away. But again, think poor. What am I saying to you? Think poor. I don't want to be poor. I'm never going to be poor. I'm going to be poorer because time goes where you just, you stop earning and you start spending or getting rid of it, which is good.

35:48But I want value. It's an insult for me to build a business and then sell any of it at less than what I think it's worth. And if someone comes in with a figure way more than I think it's worth, I would be an idiot to say no. And so is it likely to happen? Do you think you could have the Saudi backers? I think we sold 13.3 % to the Qataris, which that's done. Yeah. And was that good money? By any standard, yes. By Barry's standards? By Barry's standards. It was fair. I thought it was fair money. The company's gone up and valued more, which is what you try to, because we're playing the game. We're trying to make ourselves worth more, even if we don't sell it.

36:39If someone came in and the Saudis, I would think, would be one of the favourites to come in to buy another small stake, as long as Baz has got the final word. And what do they bring other than money? Site fees, sponsorships, TV rights, digital exploitation, vehicles. What do they bring? They open up another part of the world to me to parts that I can't reach myself. You know, if you're talking about would I sell to someone from the east end of London? No, I know everything he knows. He's not going to add anything up and give me a few quid. And he's not stupid. so he's not going to overpay me. Other people come in and they have a dream of where they want to get to on a level, and I think it's where Eddie is so much better than me, because Eddie's dreams and philosophy is much bigger than mine.

37:35I'm really quite pleased where we got to now, to be honest with you. Slightly staggered on occasions, but probably because I aimed too low. Eddie said to me the other day, you know what, Dad? If I'd have joined you 10 years before I did, think how big we'd be now. And I thought, cheeky little bastard. I said, well, Eddie, you might be right, but we might also have gone skint. Because I think poor, and I think worst case scenario, and therefore I never get disappointed. I don't have bad days. I never have a bad day. Because I always set my targets low enough to beat. So every day I can beat a target in something.

38:17And that makes me, but it might make me small fry. I'm not a speculator. I'm not someone that risks. I'm not going to build up my business and then go, the next big thing is AI. Let's put whatever into AI. No, I don't know enough about it. It's too risky and I don't like risk. I'm buying farms because I like land. I know they're not going to make it anymore. It's a terrible investment from an income. But I live all right anyway. I love walking around seeing trees. Does that make me soft? No. One day those trees may be house in the States. One day they may be solar. By the way, I'm talking in 100 years' time.

39:00I'm in no rush to do anything. I'm trying to postpone dying. That is the only issue I've got. The only thing that can affect my life is dying. And one day I will. And I'm quite prepared for it whenever it comes. It's not a problem because it's not my decision. I do my best to avoid it. But you know guarantees in life. Guarantees in life is just do the best you can do every second. Don't waste an hour of your life. Why? What are you going to do? You know, I'm getting a little bit naughty every now and again. I have a lay-in. I've never done that. But all of a sudden I'm thinking, do you know what?

39:36It's quite, it's a little luxury. Open your eyes and it says half past nine. Oh. You know, that's the sort of thing you get where you pat yourself on the back and say, you know, you're getting a bit sloppy, boy. But at the same time, well done. You're putting a good shift. Well, you're 77 now, is that right? And you had a little bit of a health scare while you were filming, didn't you, your series? Yeah, yeah. But you still seem fit, healthy, your energy seems good. Listen, I live a proper – I mean, I try to do – I try to be the best I can be in everything, not just business, in life and even your social attitude.

40:13I try to be a decent person. and I don't think I achieve every goal, but overall. So, you know, I do three workouts a week with a personal trainer. That's probably enough of me at my age. I still play cricket. I still play golf. I love my fishing. I'm travelling more to go fishing than I've ever done in my life because I really love it. And that does my head. It sort of balances my head. Hours on a riverbank have that effect on me. And also, it keeps me thinking of things. I always take a notebook with me wherever I go. Because you do forget things as you get older, but I write them down. And when I finish, I go home and have a look at it and think, hmm, I should have a look at that.

40:58That doesn't always work. There's no certainties in life. Yeah. Do you think you'll just work until your time's coming? I don't really think I'm even working. I mean, I'm just enjoying every hour that God gives me. So if I'm working, I love it. And if I stop loving it, I'll stop doing it. But I can't say I'm ever going to stop loving it. I love the fact that we've built Matchroom into a big company. I love the fact we've changed a few lives because people have done well. And everyone is judged purely on their own merit. It don't matter who you are. I love a world where it don't matter where you come from.

41:33It don't matter what colour you are. It don't matter what religion you are. It just matters are you good. If you're any good, you deserve it. but you don't get it because your dad was such and such, you know, or you went to such and such school. You've got to earn it in the real world. I mean, Eddie, he had a tough time early doors because he was always Barry Hearn's son. Yeah. And he was like, you know, it was like people, underperforming people would look at you and say, yeah, well, you've only got all that because, not true. You know, the kid puts in a big shift. I didn't think my work ethic could ever be beat by any man alive.

42:10I think he does. He beats my work ethic, which is amazing. Yeah. Because he's got all the trappings. He doesn't need to, whatever. But it's a game that he wants to win, and he knows there's a price to pay. Do you and Eddie ever clash? Yeah. Well, lots of times. Yeah. I'm old-fashioned. He's nouveau riche. Nouveau riche. So, you know, what can you say? We're bound to clash, but we clash out of love. You know, I mean, I love my son more than anything in the world, other than my daughter and my wife. Got to say that in case they listen to your podcast. But Eddie, I'm his hero. And he would never admit to you.

42:47But I know I'm his hero. How does that make you feel? It just makes me feel great. And when I listen to him talk and I watch him act, I think, do you know what? I'm not fearful of death. I'm still here. That's me talking. Yeah. Because he's been ingrained in the – you know, he hates it when I call him a project. But he is a massive project. and I'm very happy with how the final versions turned out. Yeah. Have you ever had any proper impasses? Well, when he was young, obviously, you see, you know, we ended up in the boxing ring together to find out what he was like because I didn't like at 16, he was turning out to one of the rich kids that I never liked when I was growing up.

43:25So you got in the ring with him? Yeah, yeah. Proper fight? Proper fight. Proper fight. Who won? He dropped me twice in the second round. But I hit him with some solid shots and he never moved. I went home happier than he did. I said to the wife who was going mental, if you've hurt my boy, I'll kill you. Did you try and hurt him? Yeah. Yeah. I hit him with a proper shot, would have taken most people out. And he took it. But when I went home, I knew I had a proper kid. So I never worried from that day since. And nor should I have worried. I think I made a mistake because it's in your DNA. What was the mistake you made?

44:02The mistake is I didn't realise that what he was like at 16 didn't mean he was going to be like it the rest of his life. Right. He had too much of the Hearn DNA in him to not want to be a success. Right. And that's amazing. Yeah. Because with me, I had no issues. My dad was a bus driver. If I was a bus conductor, I'd done well. There was no pressure on me to perform. I wanted it. My mother was the one who wanted it for me. But I wanted it so bad I could taste it. So there wasn't anything I wouldn't do for a pound note. Nothing, you know. And, you know, my prices have gone up. My targets have run up.

44:43Inflation. Inflation being what it is. But Eddie's got the same ability to grow something which we can be proud of. Were you worried at some point then because, you know, obviously he was in an environment where… Yeah, of course. Yeah, entitled maybe. Were you worried about that? Entitled, envy, people were jealous. people are not pleasant sometimes and they're especially not pleasant to kids and it's easy to you know i mean he's a big lump he could have gone one way or the other way yeah but he didn't he stuck to it and uh he's ended up good he's ended up someone i'm extremely proud of but also i would say if he was an employee and i wasn't related to him i would still want him running my company.

45:27Yeah. Which is the biggest compliment I could ever pay him. Do you still have any beef with Frank Warren? No, I've never had beef with Frank Warren. We're competitors. Right. I mean, both of us. Does that motivate you? Of course. I want to win. I told you. How many times I've got to tell you I want to win? Me and Frank used to say that we worship the ground that's coming to each other. And in the boxing business, there's swings. The difference between us is basic. He's a really good boxing promoter and I believe he loves boxing and I think it's in his veins. It's not in mine. I'm a businessman.

46:06I make money. And I like boxing very much as a part of my portfolio of interests. But it's a bit like Eddie's taken that same principle and said, I'm a global, I'm not a UK promoter. We think in far beyond, we're a global promoter. So Eddie's got shows in Ghana and Japan and Australia. Every week he's somewhere doing something all over the world. No one's ever done that before. But it's a marvellous business where you meet some great people having a struggle to achieve something with their life and you fall in love with them. You fall in love with sportsmen because I suppose a bit of him is you, isn't it?

46:51You're seeing yourself in him, saying. Yeah. And he's had it, you know, he hasn't had it tough financially, but he's had it tough from a working environment where people haven't given him the credit he deserves without looking back and going, look, forget who he is. Analyze what the animal you see. This kid's special. Yeah. And he'll go on to do great things, I'm sure. I've no idea where because he sees things different to me. he's a much you know he's quite right we might be worth 10 times more than we are now but i'm satisfied with the job i've done and i mean i've passed the bat on to him and said now you run the race and see how you get on so how much are you involved now or do you just let him make all the decisions no one makes all the decisions but you can't let fully go okay no i can't let go i'm not I maintained when I share I mean we do things because there's no point in me having it I'm getting too old but I maintain some what can I call them veto rights so there's certain things within the company where I will have the final show if I own nothing I'm not a director of any of my companies anymore I'm the president which is a non-executive position I attend board meetings without a vote and anyone who's got a brain will always listen to what I've got to say because I know what I'm talking about.

48:15Yeah. Period. Yeah. And if they do decide, which they wouldn't, to do something which I patently disagree with, I'm sure I can find a veto right in there somewhere. What kind of things would you veto? Takeovers, borrowings. You know, if someone come in and said, well, we've got this opportunity, we can borrow. We've never borrowed money. I don't like borrowing money. I don't like paying other people interest. I like people paying me interest. So if we took an aggressive point in business and said an opportunity comes up, this is a very good example where someone said, well, if we go and borrow a billion pounds, we can do such and such.

48:53And something at that level would endanger what I've built up. Veto. Yeah. But on everything else, I'm pretty easygoing. I mean, I think I've got the best team in sport. I've got some wonderful administrators. and if they weren't as good as I think they are, then I've failed myself. So obviously I'm never going to accept that, am I? So they are the best in the business. Yeah. And for that reason, you don't give someone a title and a responsibility unless you let him have his own way. Otherwise, you might as well just do the job yourself. So I'm very happy to dispense authority across the board and go out.

49:29There's the challenge. Go out, Emily. Show me what you can do in Nightball, Paul. Matt Porter. Go and show me the darts is fantastic. Go and make it bigger. Eddie Frank Smith with the boxing. You know, okay. You're falling behind darts. What you got? What you got? Steve Dawson with the snooker. There's about 125 of us, which is not a lot of people. That is a lot of people. It's not a lot in comparison to the size of the business. When we talk to our American friends, and they know the size of our business, the profitability of it, the turnover of it, and they say, how many people you've got? And you say, about 125.

50:08They're absolutely amazed. They think we should have 2 ,000 or 3 ,000. Wow. Well, I'm too mean to pay 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 salaries. No, no, we can all work a bit harder. Yeah. And we do have that work ethic within Matchroom where everyone knows this company actually, if you want seniority, it takes over your life. Same as you. When you're doing something yourself, it takes over your life. And you've just got to go with it because that's what you were put here to do. Yeah. And are you sad that Eddie's gone to Monaco? Yes. I understand his reasons. I'm sad because I see my son every day. Now I'm like making an appointment.

50:46I see him three hours every three weeks. Yeah. We talk on the time. We're very close. And I like that. My daughter's been wonderful as well. And we're a close family. And I like more. But I do understand the reason. And I'm sure that I've done things in my life where people say, well, you know, when we started off, we used to do the tours in the Far East. I'd be gone for weeks and weeks and weeks. And I've got two young kids and they don't see their dad and they've got to understand. This is all for you and for me as well. This is part of our journey within this family. And as you grow up, you will understand that more and more.

51:26And they did. And why do you think Eddie's gone? Well, you know. Tax, I mean, tax saving is ridiculous there. We're living in a country where the envies of wealth are destroying everything and we're being operated on by people who have no business experience and they may be really smart, but they ain't going to make it on their own. And they need entrepreneurs. They need people that make a stand and say, I want to build something. What people say, oh, look at him, he's got a lot of money. They don't see the thousands of people underneath him that have benefited from that. and sometimes there are rich people that do wrong things the same as there are poor people but we've got to understand the United Kingdom was built as a trading company a risk taking company and risks are great because if they come off they benefit everybody but when you listen to some of the party politics that go on now it's actually they find it upsetting to have people, achievers, wealth creators, they don't like them.

52:33So they hit them with anything. And then what happens? They all leave. They leave. And what do they take with them? All their money. So the billions of pounds, 30 ,000 people or so left this year. That's masses. And worst thing is they've not really been replaced because other wealthy people that might consider investing in the UK look over the look over the gate and see somewhere where it's no that's not for me I'll go somewhere where I'm more appreciated where I can have a bit more freedom develop and live my dream and dreams is about what it is there's too much negativity and you know society has to be fair to everybody but that means everybody not just those who haven't achieved it means you've got to understand there's a balance in every economy that you must take care of.

53:26Clueless, bloody clueless. So if you had the ear of, you know, the top people in labour, what would you suggest they do? You can make a case for increasing tax produces less revenue. I mean, they're going around at the moment, God knows what's going to happen with the next budget, I fear the worst. But it's okay, It's not going to hurt me. I'll pay a few quid more. So what? I'm going to be dead. So what? What does worry me is where's the Barry Hearn who's 18 years old or 20 years old now? Where are these people? They're all over the country, mate. They're in industrial states, the same as I come from or wherever.

54:06Or they're rich kids that still want to do it because it's in their genes. They've got to be encouraged. And the only way to encourage is to let them live the life and give them the freedom. At the same time, we've got to look after everybody else as well. So it's a bit of a balance. But the balance is led from the front. We should be the leaders in Europe. We should be cutting corporation tax to encourage foreign firms to come here and provide employment and provide a salary. There's lots of other things about the boat people and immigration I won't bore you with. But clearly, all I want from anybody is just common sense.

54:43If we've got a lot more money coming in, we'll all be better off. So don't turn people away. My son now has left and I'm sad by it, but I understand his reasons. But I also am sad for the fact that the country has lost a lot by his departure. And he is just one of tens of thousands of people. When you multiply it all up, you don't have a budget problem. You've actually thrown away billions and billions of pounds. Well done. Well done, mate. You read the right book. Not. Google says you're worth 158 million. How close is Google? No, it is. So I guess it's not over, Egged It. Who knows? You must know.

55:38Of course I know. I'm not telling you. no listen uh my job is doing quite i'm doing quite a good job on becoming less and less right valuable yeah because i don't you know if you don't need it around so yeah google what do they know value i mean it's easy it's easy you go to come down should value the company you look at the equity blah blah blah you do your own example i don't think they play that game but things are only worth what people are prepared to pay so when i say to you what price is there there's all why I say there's always a price for something because someone just comes out. I mean, the mega rich people, the mega rich people are like that.

56:20You know, when we talk to the Saudis about darts and I said, can we have alcohol? And they said, no. I said, can the players have alcohol? I said, no. I said, well, this is the price. And he said, yes. It's fine. I mean, people get on well. We just cut some crap out, doesn't it? Yeah. You get what you want. I want you to get what you want. You're a customer that I want to stay friends with forever. Yeah. Make sure I get what I want. Extend me the same courtesy. You'll be fine. Yeah. What do you think your legacy would be or you'd like it to be? Legacy-wise, there was an article written on me about 30 years ago, and it always stuck in my mind.

56:59Very clever, very cleverly worded. And it said that on my tombstone should say, Barry Hearn, equally a home in the boardroom, as he is on the cobbles. And I thought, that'll do me. I'm just an ordinary geezer. I work very hard. I got lucky a few times. Made the most of my luck. And I've thought, poor, all my life. I want value in everything. It doesn't matter if you spend a billion pounds on something, as long as it's value. If someone said to you, I'll give you the cure for cancer, and it's 500 billion, I'd pay it tomorrow. But as long as you get value, and that value could be how much to wash your car.

57:41If someone wants to charge me£100 to wash my car, I ain't having my car wash. But that's Bentley. It must be yours out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's only a car. It doesn't make no difference to me what I drive in. Who cares? People tell me I've got to have it. Eddie sent a Bentley round for me once on my birthday. I think I was 60. This Bentley turned up in the drive. and he went happy birthday dad I said you know what that's really something it days he went no no he said you're paying for it he said but you drive shit cars and I thought it was time you had a proper car you're paying for it I paid it no no he said it was the thought of the present that's more important isn't it I said yeah he said well I had the thought and you're paying for the present what's your biggest mistake or regret I don't make mistakes you've never made a mistake no never in my life and i'll tell you why i know that for sure is because i have a compartment in my brain if i do something wrong or make a mistake i put it in that compartment and it never gets visited again subconsciously i've learned i've learned the lesson of a mistake but i never think about it because it's a negative thought and i only have positive thoughts.

59:00Does that make sense? Yeah. How do you only have positive thoughts? Because you must have fears. I don't even fear death. How can I fear anything? But you might fear, what about the fear of the death of your children or going bust in business? I don't even think of things like that. No. I just very positive outlook, go for it. And I get knocked back. I lose. I don't win every battle. But when I wake up in the morning, I start again.

59:26It's easy. When I used to mess around boxing, I used to quite like going down because I used to stay there. But in life, you go. You go again. And we all make mistakes. All I'm saying is it's a bit of a compromise. I don't trouble myself. I don't burden myself with negative thoughts. And it can only cause me pain. So it's where my wife calls me superficial. I don't feel pain. on anything. So people come, and that's a bit of a sweeping statement, but I do my best not to feel pain is the best way. Yeah. Because it's a negative reaction. So I seem to be able to compartmentalise disasters, personal and business, whatever, and there'll always be them.

1:00:18But I'm not going to be the type of person that grows up being bitter or life hasn't treated me well. I'm grateful for what life does for me. and I'm going to try and just be positive about everything. Are you ruthless? Yes. And do you think nowadays you have to be ruthless to be successful in business? You have to be lots of things. You have to be lucky more than anything else. I think there's a tremendous amount of good fortune in it and people then have to be ready to identify that moment when they're lucky and then fulfil their dreams on exploiting that moment, you know? So it's a chain reaction.

1:00:57A lot of people don't spot the opening. You know, I think people that live looking for openings, a bit better, more chance. And some people don't, when you say gamble, there is a gamble of commitment, isn't there? It's like, you know, I don't know, you commit to something and you're not going to walk away whilst it's still delivering value to you. So I don't think it's a bad trait. It's just something that you do when you're playing the game. You know, ruthless. If there's a 50-50 ball on the football field, do you back out or do you go through? It's not ruthless. One's a winner, one's a loser.

1:01:44How long have you been married, Barry? 55 years. Wow. So how – that's rare. How do you maintain a long marriage, especially when you work a lot? Who knows? I mean, I was married. Well, I met my wife when she was 16 and I was 18. She's a remarkable woman, mainly because of how she's managed to adapt. I mean, both of us were counsellor as kids. We both grafted like no tomorrow. And it's come off and she's ended up being a rocker of the family. She's a very private person. she doesn't want to go out really she breeds race horses which she loves she works hard every day quarter past eight till half past four and she won't go to bed until she's seen every single horse before she goes to sleep she's a one-off but in our family you need that to compete with the other personalities you know my daughter's quite specific in what she wants you know she knows She doesn't want to be part of the Netflix.

1:02:51Susan, my wife, never would ever go anywhere near a Netflix show. Yeah. You know, absolutely horrendous. And yet she's married to someone who courts that sort of thing on a daily basis. Yeah. She thinks I'm mad, you know. But if people are interesting around me, I've got plenty of time for them. She's always been interesting. And what do you think she loves about you the most? Very little, I should say. She's still with you, Barry. She might. I think, yeah. It's a strange thing. 55 years is a lifetime. It's a long time. 60 years we've been together the next September. It's unbelievable. I think there's a lot of habit in things.

1:03:35You get used to baked beans every day. And there's a sort of an understanding somehow that it works. And I don't really know how to put words on it. You know? But it's worked for us. Yeah. And tell us about this Netflix show, because I understand it's been a wild success. Well, yeah. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. You know, sometimes when you live in a goldfish bowl, you think that that is your world. And it's quite encouraging when you break out and you say, well, there's a whole world out there. I mean, it's been an amazing, I think it's been an amazing success on some great numbers. But for me personally, more importantly, it's introduced me to new people.

1:04:21It's connected me with people I've known in the past. It's been fascinating. Done any deals off the back of it, I bet you have. Yeah, done half a dozen really good deals on the back of it, which is great. But as I say, when I talk to you about an individual, it's more important to be famous than good. in a way that works for companies as well. I mean, it works for you. That's the second time. But what I'm saying to you is it's not an offence to say, how good are you? It's very difficult to monitor, how good am I? Yeah. What am I comparing it with? Someone who's no good or someone who's really smart?

1:05:00Yeah. Am I better than Gates and Musk? Or am I worse than the geezer that, I don't know, fills my car up with petrol. I don't know. So we can't evaluate anything. There is no little black book. It's not Fools and Horses with a little book that says a Ford Escort's worth 420 quid. We just don't have that. So we can just compare ourselves to being the best we can be and hope that... But then again, I'm talking in circles because I don't really care. It's not important to me. What isn't? What people think and what they go. I live my life and I can try and be truthful with myself and I try and be honest with my friends.

1:05:49And I look for value and I get on with the job. It's quite black and white. Yeah. Some people are a bit deeper, you know. How do you get to that point where you don't care about what people think? Because a lot of people, I think, are cursed with that. No, no, I know. But I think you learn, don't you? criticism hurts if you think you're in the right abuse hurts especially if it's unnamed unknown you've got to cut yourself off from that sort of world i mean i know a lot of it's social media led but you've got to understand that those people don't know you so they're entitled to make a mistake just make sure they make the mistake in their own time as far away from you as possible and don't let it change your approach to life or your mission because they don't know what you're going through.

1:06:38No one knows. Now, there are times which it's not easy, but you're not going to get sympathy out of people, so why don't even court it? And at the same time, if you get criticism out of them, they're doing it from their own perspective, which means absolutely nothing to you. So just ignore it. Barry you've been on this show three times now and you kindly said before we started that you don't usually do second times I love having you on the show I love talking to you I think you're really inspirational thank you very much well listen it's a pleasure and you keep up your good work thank you and carry on spreading the gospel self-help it's a Victorian ideal that works at the end of the day all we've really got is ourselves so let's maximise that amen Amen.

1:07:28Thank you very much. Pleasure. Thank you.

1:08:01Barry Hearn:This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video, and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co.uk to learn more.