Dan Wootton On The State of the UK: Are We About To Lose Democracy and Free Speech?

31:43Well, I'm sorry, that's not what is required to save this country. And the third thing, what's the third thing? Well, the third thing is free speech. And to be honest, this absolutely relates to all of the conversations that we're having today. But if you look at the threat of Islam, for example, there are literally plans in place to introduce some type of Islamophobia law, which, as I say, could make a conversation like this potentially illegal. That is chilling. It is chilling. We don't have blasphemy laws in this country. We should not. But free speech comes into a whole load of things. I mean, Slippery Starmer is absolutely attempting to control the mainstream media.

32:30Like you look at the fact that he wants the off communists, as I call them, this is the state regulator of the media in the United Kingdom, effectively the body that actually ended up being the final straw that got me cancelled from GB News. They want to stop Nigel Farage being able to present on GB News, for example. So there's a whole load of control of the mainstream media going on. But actually, what they're most concerned about, and what they most want to shut down, is this revolution, right? So it's disruptors, it's outspoken, but it's also, Rob, and probably they view these guys as more of a threat, it's the citizen journalists that are on the ground, covering the hotel migrant protests, covering what's going on with migrants up and down the country, actually going into the HMOs where they live, going into the hospitals where they're being treated.

33:22And they want to delegitimize that type of journalism, which is, I believe, revealing the truth. And so there's a whole load of things that are being done to try and shut down free speech in this country. There's like libel tourism, abuse of the libel laws, which makes it very impossible for someone to risk speaking out about a rich person, for example. There's huge pressure being put on the social media giants to shut down free speech. And when people challenged Starmer over this, he literally said, well, if you don't agree with my censorship, then I believe that you're a supporter of pedophiles and you're a supporter of Jimmy Savile.

34:08He literally said that. I mean, that's not an exaggeration. And it's nuts because what people are doing is they are hiding behind trying to protect children as a way to actually shut down genuine debate. I mean, we've seen it with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, too, for example, because they fundamentally want to shut down their critics, right, on social media. people like me, people like Piers Morgan, they don't want us speaking out. So I've pretended, oh no, but the reason we want this censorship is because we have to protect our children. And obviously there are tragic cases about what's happened with children being bullied via social media.

34:51But the solution is not censorship for all. Okay. The solution is not the Online Safety Act. Because what it's actually doing, Rob, is encouraging censorship of difficult conversations, important conversations, conversations like the ones we're having now, aimed at adult, because there's a chance a child might view it. Well, I'm sorry, that's not good enough for me. I'm a free speech absolutist. We've got to have these conversations. And by the way, kids are going to find this stuff whether they like it or not. And all this so-called censorship is doing is driving them into the grips of the dark web, which is far, far worse than anything that you might find on YouTube.

35:36So the solution for all of these losers, these people who are losing the argument, whether it's Keir Starmer, whether it's Harry and Meghan, is let's censor things. Let's take away free speech. And let's cover up why we're really doing this by saying, oh, we want to protect the kids. Well, we all want to protect the kids. We all do. But as you know, kids have always been bullied in a whole load of horrendous ways. Technology is now the latest way being used. But it's not an excuse to take away free speech. And what about like these, what, 12 ,000 arrests is it and you know people even going to prison for social media posts I mean I guess you must think that's pretty ridiculous I mean it's insane I mean we have more arrests for social media posts than despot countries like Russia I mean it's absolutely not so so we're becoming a communist country then well I think we are and I think we're becoming an authoritarian country and I don't really think that any of the arguments that people in power make about oh no you know we don't get involved in the justice system stand anymore because trust me I mean I followed very closely the case of Lucy Connolly who was the grieving mother who was jailed for 31 months because of one post on X on the night of the Southport massacre which she deleted by the way.

37:07She went out for a walk with the dog. She deleted the post within hours. She was locked up for 31 months. There were loads of extenuating circumstances in her case. The fact that she had lost her son because of NHS neglect, her baby son. And so she was traumatized by seeing what Axel Rudicabana did in that Taylor Swift dance class. But even if that wasn't the case, she posted something which some people were offended by. Yeah, I don't think it was violent in any way. It was maybe unpleasant. But she was not only locked up for 31 months. The whole justice system was designed, Rob, to come down on her like a ton of bricks to provide a warning to the rest of us, us mere mortals.

37:51Be careful what you post because you could end up being like Lucy Connelly. So she was in remand. She was not a threat to anyone. I mean, we've literally seen Jihad al-Shami, right, who is our most recent Islamist terrorist who attempted to blow himself up at a synagogue in Manchester, but failed, however, did still see two people killed as a result of his terror attack. and he was out on bail for rape. Clearly a dangerous man, right? An Islamist extremist on bail for rape. Lucy Connolly behind bars locked up over a long period of time for a post on X. It was insanity. We all know it was insanity.

38:39But I think all of this is designed to try and send a chilling warning to everyone. Just don't say what you're thinking. And that's a dangerous society. Don't you think? If you feel something, if you see something happening around you, but you think, oh, I can't say this. I can't say this. I've got kids. I might get locked up. And I see that going on. I see so many people who are too scared or who say to me, oh, Dan, you're brave. And it's like, what a crazy thing to say. I'm a journalist. You know, I'm a long term journalist who worked in the mainstream and just believes in revealing the truth.

39:17There should be nothing brave about that. But we're living in a country where journalists have actually been targeted. Alison Pearson, my friend at the Daily Telegraph, knock on the door from the police. Katie Hopkins, regular guest on this show, recently arrested or at least forced into a police interview under caution for something that she had said on her own Katie's Arms shows, referring to herself as a spaz. I couldn't get my head around that with KT. What did they arrest her for? They can justify anything under this sort of idea of hate speech and incitement. But it was self-deprecation.

40:03And she still hasn't been cleared. No. I mean, she will be. Yeah. Because I think what keeps happening, Rob, is the police take on these cases, think they're doing the right thing, and then are immediately freaked out by the backlash. But the problem is when it's not Katie Hopkins, when it's not Alison Pearson, when it's not Graham Linehan. The problem is when it's you and you're arrested and no one is speaking up for you. Because Lucy Connolly became the public face of what was, I believe, the most revolting attempt to stun British patriots into silence. And probably the case that was most upsetting to me was that of Peter Lynch, who was the father of, I think, four, good family man who had been a protester, right?

40:51And he'd been an anti-establishment protester in the United Kingdom for many years. So he'd protested against Brexit. He'd protested against COVID. He believed in the deep state. He believed that the government were not looking out for its people. Loads of things that I believe. And he was on the streets and he had his signs and this is what he did. This was his way to express his democratic right to free expression. And after the Southport massacre, he found himself, and obviously he chose to go there at one of the protests outside a migrant hotel. But I've seen the police body cam footage, Rob, and I've read the court transcripts.

41:27And there is absolutely no suggestion that Peter Lynch was at all violent towards any police officer. He called them scum. He said that they were protecting child killers. Now, I struggle to see how him saying that was anything other than factual. Again, some people might find it offensive, some people might find it inappropriate, but it was his opinion based on what he'd seen in regards to the Southport massacre. Anyway, he was locked up, pleaded guilty, which was a crazy decision, but of course everyone was virtually forced into pleading guilty because they were remanded in custody and told, if you don't plead guilty, you're going to get an even longer jail sentence.

42:08But his jail sentence was insane. I believe it was over two years. And he is said to have killed himself in prison. The details of this case are so disturbing to me because we're not being told the whole truth about what happened. Most recently, we've learned via one of the hearings of his inquest that the day before his death, he had been charged with a crime behind bars in prison. But we're not able to know what that was. And remember, Martin Brunt, who is the crime correspondent for Sly News, had reported that so-called right-wing protesters like Peter Lynch were going to be targeted by Muslim gangs in prison.

42:56And so Peter Lynch lost his life for expressing his democratic right to protest against the regime. And this happened to a whole load of people. Most of their cases are forgotten and their lives have been destroyed. And it just is meant to provide a warning shot to all of us. So why are you staying here then? Well, I'm staying here to fight. And don't get me wrong, sometimes there are times when it feels very appealing. And obviously there's a lot of my contemporaries, Father Calvin Robinson, for example, who has gone overseas. There's loads of people who I respect. And don't get me wrong, I've always been very clear that if the authoritarian state becomes too much where it's impossible for me to report the truth about what's going on in the united kingdom then i might have to do the whole pirate radio thing right and sort of be doing my show from somewhere outside the uk just so i'm not impacted by british censorship but i understand that most people don't have the opportunity to leave the country.

44:14And they, I think, want to see people that are going to stay in fight in lots of different ways. And obviously, for me, it's via the medium of independent broadcasting. That's what I do. I'm a journalist. I've never wanted to get into politics. I have no desire of taking on any type of elected position. That's never been something I want to do. So what I feel I can do is keep all politicians honest, keep the mainstream media honest. And by the way, that includes mainstream media organizations that are said to be on the right because actually whether it's the Daily Telegraph or Talk TV or GB News or The Sun or the Daily Mail lots of places that I've previously worked very often I see them giving in to this narrative too and I think it's also important to call them out so that's what I'm able to do but don't get me wrong I don't judge someone anymore when they tell me they're leaving the country.

45:12I completely understand it. There are huge challenges here financially, in terms of safety, in terms of security. So I get it. I get it. People are unfortunately able to go overseas and immediately have a far better quality of life in a whole load of ways. And I think rather than attacking those people or treating those types of people as traitors, we need to understand why. You know, the money that is pouring out of this country is utterly, utterly terrifying. Given you know what percentage of tax the top, you know, 0.1 % of earners pay. It's astronomical. And those people are leaving. Silver has crashed.

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46:35And on the note of finances, what do you think is the state of the economy? Are we seeing the death of the middle class? Why are so many millionaires and billionaires leaving? We absolutely are. And the economy is in deep, deep trouble. And economists who I respect are very clear that there is a crash on the way. But for me, what I find most disturbing is the fact that crises are so often now created by our elite class. So if you take the example of Liz Truss, who was a prime minister who I supported when she was in power, and I have supported her since she left or since she was forced out of Downing Street, the economic situation that Rachel Reeves, our current chancellor, finds herself in today is on a whole load of levels, far, far worse, right, than the situation that was affecting Liz Truss.

47:27And you can look at it in lots of ways. And I won't go into it because I'm not an expert, but whether it's guilt yields or borrowing or a whole load of very specific economic issues, we are in a worse state than we were in under Liz Truss, right? But the media are not reporting on this as if it's a crisis. They're not reporting on it in the way that they were with Liz Truss, because as she says, she wasn't just chucked under a bus. She was literally forcibly thrown under the wheels. You know, it's like they did not want her to succeed. They wanted her gone from power because she was challenging the orthodoxy on a whole load of these things from taxes to growth.

48:12And who's they? Well, I think it's the deep state. And the deep state encompasses a whole load of people but by the way including the Bank of England including the Treasury including the snivel service as I call it you know all of the people that man these departments paid for by us but who actually have a worldview and believe that they are more important than the politicians and the politicians aren't really there to make genuine decisions I mean Liz Truss says that the The last prime minister who was actually in charge of the United Kingdom was Tony Blair. And that's chilling. That is terrifying.

48:54And even now, even now, you see, because they think it's a clever line, because the mainstream media has demonized this woman, you'll see Starmer or Reeves try and blame Truss for something that's happening now. It's like, she was prime minister for six weeks. She didn't get to do a damn thing because you destroyed her. And none of these things are in the realm of conspiracy anymore. This has happened and it is happening. And there is a completely different reaction to the financial hellscape that Labour have plunged us into than the very small blip that Liz Truss faced after the mini budget. And again, I've interviewed her.

49:42she goes into a lot of depth about how this happened and about why it happened. But I think what people fundamentally need to know is that there are anti-democratic forces out there who will try and remove a leader from power if they want to genuinely shake up the system. And our system genuinely needs to be shaken up. And of course, this is one of the challenges that is now facing Nigel Farage. And I have been critical earlier in this interview of Nigel Farage, in terms of the fact that he's not going hard enough and strong enough, but he's also going to have to be seriously armed with mega muscle.

50:18Because remember, from day one, he will have the deep state and the blob and the snivel service trying to ensure that he is a failure and that his policies do not happen. And so what he needs to do is really insist on fundamental change, right on a whole load of levels and I think that also means being able to hire and fire the people in Westminster who are frustrating change happening maybe we'll come back to that I'd like to ask you if this is as bad as what everyone seems to be saying but what do you really think about the digital ID well I think digital ID is absolutely chilling but what I think is quite interesting is that there's so much incompetence with this government right i'm sort of slightly hopeful that they just 12 billion and fuck it up yeah i just don't i just don't think they're going to be able to get it through honestly i don't think they're going to be able to get it through both practically and politically because this is a weak administration This is such a fundamentally weak prime minister, right?

51:32He is more unpopular than any prime minister in history ever, bar none. We hate this guy. We don't trust this guy. He thought he was pulling a clever trick with digital ID by playing into our genuine and very real, and by the way, completely accurate concerns about mass immigration. but it's ludicrous because there are loads of countries in europe that have a form of digital id where immigration has not been at all curbed by it and if you think digital id is going to stop illegals invading the country and taking part in drug trafficking county lines prostitution rings, terrorism rings. It's ludicrous.

52:20What businesses that I've just mentioned there give a damn if you have a national insurance number or not, because they're not paying through the usual system. So Starmer's whole reason for introducing digital ID is a joke. It's not going to stop illegal immigration, even slightly. Then he's really pushing this whole idea of convenience, right? But when have you ever seen the government or the state do something that works properly and that is convenient? Never. Every time I have to deal with the state, Rob, every single time, be it applying for a passport, paying a parking ticket, whatever it happens to be, it's a nightmare.

53:05It is an absolute nightmare because the state don't know how to make things work because they've never had to because these people are in jobs for life and they are on the whole lazy bastards who don't particularly want to go into an office, don't want to make things happen. They don't have the same energy or belief that you do, for example, running a private company. And I think just look at HMRC, look at HMRC, which is one of the most, and I mean, I've had my own issues with them, but it is one of the most ridiculously run departments in the world, which take years to do anything. So fundamentally, the idea that digital ID will also bring any type of convenience is a joke.

53:50This will be a horrible system, but it is also, and this is something that I've warned off for many years, but I should just say it again, and I'm sure I've said it to you before, but this is also the start. Mark my words, and this is why we have to fight this tooth and nail, as boring as it may be, as frustrating as it may be, it is the start of a Chinese-style social credit system being introduced into the back door into the United Kingdom. And for those wondering what that would mean, well, it means things like, if you put your rubbish out less, you might get some extra points. You know, if you don't take your annual holiday, you might get some extra points.

54:31But what if you start badly behaving too? That's when you start losing your points. You start being regarded a bad citizen. And while to begin with, we would obviously have governments saying, oh no, of course we're not going to do that. Look at what's happened in China. Look at how they use technology to control their population. Look at the draconian measures that were enforced throughout that country during the COVID pandemic. We do not want to go there. So it's one area where I will give Nigel Farage real credit for he has pledged to go to jail rather than sign up to digital ID. That I respect.

55:13That is the sort of leadership we need. Yeah, because I think about all these systems, you've got HMRC, very powerful system, they can essentially crack into your bank, probably now crack into your crypto. They're talking about taking your savings interests at source. So you've, you've got that invasion, then you've got the Online Safety Act, which is monitoring everything you say, then you've got the central bank digital currency and maybe the death of cash and, you know, your money controlled digitally and now this digital ID. And if all those four systems start to integrate, is that not mass population control?

55:55Like George Orwell wouldn't have been able to predict that. Of course, and this is what the globalists want. And I've always said that Slippery Starmer is just the puppet on the strings of Tony Blair and Tony Blair is at the absolute heart of globalist organizations and he's even infiltrated the White House recently which is so disappointing you know it's like Trump wake up he's a bad guy okay he might be very charming but he's a very very bad guy and you don't want him anywhere near what you're doing why is he a bad guy sorry just jump in I mean where do I start where do I start take it from the top I mean interestingly let me just get this in as well isn't his son the person behind who will run the system of the digital ID I'm pretty sure he's denied that and his company has denied that but certainly his son is absolutely involved in lots of these spaces from a business point of view right uh whether he's directly involved in digital ID or not but when it comes to Blair I mean this is a guy who has been all about consolidating globalist power for decades.

57:08He was prepared to give up our sovereignty, wasn't he? And he has been prepared to overturn and thwart the biggest democratic vote in British history in terms of our decision to leave the European Union. But I would argue far more concerning is his roles in organizations like the World Economic Forum, which is all about taking away sovereignty from nation states. Blair is one of the global elites who thinks that he can run the world with a very, very small group of people better than any country being able to choose its own government. So what he intends to do and has done in the United Kingdom, because by the way, so many of the issues we're talking about today, Rob, have been as a result of changes made by Blair post-1997 and his government, which was truly powerful, is to just chip, chip, chip away at the nation state, chip, chip, chip away at our natural God-given powers that we should have as a country.

58:16and Starmer buys into that. You know, Starmer was very open in that interview on the fake news agents with Emily Maitlis that he prefers Davos to Westminster. He's the prime minister of the country. That's an absolutely appalling thing to say. I mean, I would go as far to say that is a treacherous thing to say. He said you can get more done there. Again, how disturbing is that? Like, think of the true chilly nature of that. A prime minister of the country, I mean, he was leader of the opposition at the time when he made that comment saying you can get more done in Davos, which is really the heart of the internationals and the globalists.

58:59You can get more done there than you can in Westminster. Well, what does that say about the sovereignty of our parliament and how much we've actually given away? And Tony Blair is one of the evil geniuses who is behind that. I mean, he looks like an evil genius. He looks like Gollum. or Gandalf, sort of a combination of the two, because he's got like the Gandalf here. And he is an evil genius because he knows how the elites work. In your 20 years of journalism, what's been the most shocking thing you've discovered? So this is really depressing, but I think, to be honest, the most shocking thing that I discovered was that most journalists, certainly most journalists in the mainstream, have absolutely no desire to question the narrative.

59:51They are so happy to just have a comfortable life, go along with what they're told, really cast aspersions on anyone who they're told to. You know, Tommy Robinson's an evil man, so we're just going to try and prove that Tommy Robinson's an evil man and for me the real eye-opening moment of that and the most depressing moment was during COVID because that was when I was like oh my god these people who I used to respect these people who I used to think were actual journalists and would question authority and were there to ensure that we had freedom and that we maintained our freedoms and that we kept democracy and that we weren't put through, you know, enforced medical experiments, all of that stuff, literally folded like a cheap suit.

1:00:54And that's when I lost my faith, really. And I see it now with stories on a daily basis. I mean, I've used the example of Tommy Robinson, but you could also use the example of the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs. But, you know, there's a whole load of stories. Journalists on the whole tend to hunt as a pack and don't really go against the grain and often value being close to power, you know, value their proximity to power more than they do their ability to tell the truth. And I mean, nothing proved that more than during COVID because our media class just gave in. I mean, it was bizarre. And what do you think of Tommy Robinson?

1:01:47Well, I think he's a real hero, actually. I think he is completely derided by the elite class. They lie about him. And I think he's an inspirational figure for a lot of people in this country. And I understand why. I think he's a working class hero. And I think a lot of the elite class in this country just despise the working class. And so we'll find any way to do down the working class, whether that means branding them far right or racist. But I think, again, this links to my previous point, Rob, which is that the mainstream media have failed in their responsibility in terms of covering this man.

1:02:35Camilla Tomine, who is now the flagship presenter on my former employer, GB News, went on ITVs this morning and described Tommy Robinson when he was behind bars, by the way, which was gutless because he couldn't respond, although he had since responded on my show, Outspoken and various other platforms. but at the time went on this morning and said Tommy Robinson is a white supremacist. Now, that is a lie. You can make a lot of calls about Tommy Robinson. You could certainly say he's anti-Islam, right? Some people would say that would mean he's Islamophobic, even though you know that's not a term that I believe in and I don't believe it's a term that should exist.

1:03:16It's a made-up term by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood. But she went on and described him as a white supremacist. Now, that is simply not true. She knew it wasn't true, but she had to try and back it up. So she then made a podcast for the Daily Telegraph, where she brought in one of Tommy Robinson's former disciples who has turned on him, very weird woman, and again, tried to make this woman back up her claim that Tommy Robinson is a white supremacist. remember this woman is an enemy of Tommy Robinson now, but even she was like, well, no, you know, it's not about color. His best mates are black and Asian.

1:03:59It's not about that. It's about the fact that he doesn't want Islam taking over Christianity in the United Kingdom. And Camilla Tomine's response to that was, well, if you don't want Christianity to be our main religion, could you argue that that means that you're wanting some type of supremacy? And I thought, oh my God, is that how far we've fallen? Like a journalist who should be someone that people on the right can trust, given she works for the Daily Telegraph and she's the flagship presenter now at GB News, is trying to back up calling Tommy Robinson a white supremacist because he believes in keeping Britain as a Christian country?

1:04:41Well, you've lost the plot. And yes, I am someone who believes that Tommy Robinson has an important voice. I'm not a supporter because I'm not a supporter of anyone, you know? And Tommy actually asked me to speak at the Unite the Kingdom rally. And I was very honored that he asked. But I didn't want to speak at Unite the It's not because I didn't support that event and I thought that event was incredible, but I said, no, no, no, what I want to do is I want to cover this event. And I want to cover this event. And I was very honest with him as an independent journalist. So, look, if you do something wrong or if I see trouble or if I see something that I disagree with, I will call it out and I will report it.

1:05:30Because sure enough, what happened, Rob, is there was no mainstream media coverage of Unite the Kingdom. the only coverage was of some bad behavior which took place outside of the perimeter of the rally itself. They didn't cover what was said on stage. They didn't cover Tommy Robinson's incredible 20 minute interview with Elon Musk where he spoke about the state of the United Kingdom, an interview which by the way Piers Morgan has been trying and failing to get for the past year. Not a word on any of that. They covered a tiny number of arrests by a tiny number of folk who were outside the perimeter of the main rally.

1:06:15That was how they covered it. Well, guess what? I covered the whole thing. I went live for six hours on YouTube, every single speech, interviewed the participants, but I was also in the crowd and I was getting a feel for the event and I was looking to see where there was trouble, if there was trouble. And I got over a million views on YouTube for that broadcast it's our it's our biggest ever outspoken broadcast thus far but that's because no one else was covering the truth people just wanted to see what was being said see what the participants were saying even the right so-called right-wing channels you know telegraph gb news talk tv came at that event with a with an agenda wow yeah i saw it was funny because people were there saying you know there's millions of people here and then the mainstream media are like oh 120 ,000 it was ludicrous 150 ,000 it's ludicrous apparently sky paid for the you know the aerial views and then didn't publish it yeah well what was actually very happening helpful is the guardian well one of the people that sent a drone up which were able to make it very easy to predict the crowd numbers i mean how many were there do you think oh well look i predicted on the day well over a million and i absolutely stand by that i know tommy believes it was much bigger than that yeah but from but it wasn't 120 or 150 000 rob honestly okay let's think about this for one second wembley stadium right holds 100 000 people over 100 000 people which means you know when you get the aerial shot of the fans leaving wembley stadium and there's just that one little street which goes into the station at Wembley Stadium.

1:07:58That was the amount of people that you had just trying to get from Waterloo Station across the bridge. Okay? That was just a tiny, tiny portion of the crowd. And, of course, the police say, oh, well, we only take the crowd figures from a certain perimeter of the event. You know, a whole load of excuses. But I mean, what was hilarious is that the counter protest probably only got about 5 ,000 people. Do you see what I mean? So the idea that 150 ,000 is some type of tiny number anyway is for the birds. But the point is, it wasn't 150 ,000 people. It was well over a million people. And again, this is the problem we're in now.

1:08:40We don't get honesty. So I want to challenge us both. Because we were talking before we went on air about the algorithm. them. And I actually wrote a LinkedIn post this morning, something along the lines of, you know, London has fallen 2.7 million views, you know, the UK in a state of depression, 2.9 million views, two posts I did recently. And then, you know, how to manage your time? Well, a post I did recently, 5 ,800 views. And I do these experiments from time to time, where I try and post something positive or educational or uplifting and it gets a very small percentage of the views compared to London has fallen and the death of the UK and I look in the mirror at times and I check myself that I'm not just becoming a slave to the algorithm that's why I ask you about are you being a doom monger you know what do you really think of the state of the UK so let's have an open conversation about the algorithms because you know I want to get views and your livelihood now the algorithm can make or break your entire livelihood.

1:09:45How do you play that dance? Do you sometimes feel like you were controlled by billionaires and now you're controlled by the algorithm? Yeah, I definitely think it's a huge issue, actually. What I obviously always have tried to do through my whole career, because I come from the Sun, I come from tabloid newspapers, is I absolutely believe that the news can be entertaining, can be fun, can be enjoyable, can be controversial, can be dramatic. And I want people to watch, right? So I really do believe in that because what we've always seen through the years is huge snobbery about broadsheet newspapers or very posh TV shows, which don't try to appeal to the masses, which means working the algorithm.

1:10:42But as a result, no one watches them. Or just a tiny portion of the elite class watch them. Well, what's the point of that? So for me, I want a mainstream audience. I want a populist audience. I want big numbers because that is obviously how we get the message out. And it's also how you're a success, you know, and being a success has always been a part of what I've done through my whole career. Obviously, right up until I launched the very first show at GB News, and it was predicted that we were going to be off air at that point within three months. And Andrew Neal, who was the first chairman of GB News, quit because he couldn't cope.

1:11:22And I stayed and I stayed and I turned that show and therefore the channel, because, you know, it was the flagship show on the channel, into a rating success. So that matters to me. I do think there are issues at times with the algorithm because, of course, yes, negativity sells. But I guess I also see a lot of hope in terms of what I'm doing because I am promoting now loads of amazing, young, up and coming YouTubers, citizen journalists, independent media stars, and they're getting numbers too. And that's great. Do you see what I mean? This isn't about me. It is about us creating a whole alternative network.

1:12:09And look, there are so many I could name check, but let me just name check a few, you know, who've done great work over the past few months here in the United Kingdom. So AY Audits, Jack Hatters, Emma Speaks Freely, Based and Bougie, Steph the Alternate. You know, these are all, and there will have been some amazing people that I've forgotten, and I'm really sorry about that. But these are Connor Tomlinson, Charlie Downs. Look, there's a whole load. But these are incredible, young, brave journalists who are not encumbered at all by the mainstream media. Because they're not like me. They've never worked in the mainstream.

1:12:51So that they have none of the limitations of working in the mainstream media thinking this is how we do things. Oh, should I be worried about this? Should I be concerned about this? They have none of that. And that for me is really exciting. And so, yes, even though there are, of course, challenges with the algorithm, I guess the positive is it is starting to also create these new stars, these new voices. Lauren the Insider is another one who's been doing some work with me and Urban Scoop recently. her YouTube channel is flying in the very early days, you know, and she's a mom and she has no big backing at all behind her.

1:13:36So yes, it's difficult, but where it's a great equalizer, I guess, is that you don't need a whole load of money and resource to launch your channel. In fact, and I won't be cruel, but I have seen some mainstream media names in recent weeks launch YouTube channels with massive backing, Rob. Like huge Murdoch money backing. And I've got about 5 ,000 subscribers because people are not wanting what they're selling anymore. It's not about having a posh studio or the best equipment. It's not about that. It's about where are you getting the raw, authentic voices, honesty and reporting. And so while I do think there are lots of challenges with the algorithm, at the same time, I guess, to be a little bit more positive, I'm also thinking it's allowing us to see these amazing, exciting, new journalistic voices.

1:14:42And certainly for me, over the past few months, because remembering I'm producing a show every single day from my studio. We do a lot of content. We make about two and a half hours of content a day, right? Wow. And so I can't be out there on the ground that much. I try to be when I can. So this network of independent journalists, oh my God, they have been incredible because it's like, I don't trust what the BBC is telling me outside the Epi Migrant Hotel, but I absolutely trust what Jack Hatter's or AY Audits is telling me outside the hotel. And the great thing is I can watch the raw footage for myself to actually see what was happening without that sort of mainstream media edit on it.

1:15:26So is there anything that you changed your mind on that the left or the far left convinced you of?

1:15:37No. I call shenanigans. I call bullshit. No, I mean. You're an open-minded guy. You know, you have your beliefs and you're strong in your beliefs. I've got to know you well, but you are an open-minded guy. And I think if you were wrong about something or you changed your mind, I think you would. Yeah, no, I would. But I don't think there's anything from the hard left. Because honestly, Rob, what I have seen, no, because what I've seen from the hard left, especially over the past few years, is actually so disturbing. that if anything, I feel like far, far more convinced that my positions are correct.

1:16:17So I'll give you the example of the death of Charlie Kirk, right? Now, the reaction that I saw from the left to his death was absolutely barbaric, inhumane, revolting. I'm not talking about everyone, of course. No, you've been celebrating it. Yeah, but there was a hell of a lot of it. There was a hell of a lot of it. There was a hell of a lot of it. It was a hell of a lot of evil. And there was a hell of a lot of private celebration going on on the left as well. And I thought about it a lot, right? And what is that about? Like, why are the woke left so truly evil? And I was having a conversation about it with my fiance.

1:16:55And I was sort of saying, who's the person who I probably sort of from a professional level despise the most in the United Kingdom on the left, right? And we probably agreed it was Owen Jones who has been personally vile about me, who has the most despicable opinions, is really destroying this country or trying to destroy this country. Because there's a whole load of reasons, right, for me to hate or very seriously dislike Owen Jones. And I do. But I was thinking, let's just reverse that and imagine that Owen Jones was on a university campus in the United Kingdom and was politically assassinated in that grotesque fashion.

1:17:41I promise you, I would be utterly traumatized, utterly devastated. like you do not want to see what happened to Charlie Kirk happen to your worst enemy that is the point it is the end of debate it is the end of freedom it is the end of free speech all of the things that I care about right and yet people who are in my position but on the left are celebrating this. And it happened a lot. And even if they're not celebrating, they can't express their horror at what happened. So there's such a lack of humanity. So no, genuinely, there's nothing that the left or the far left have convinced me on. If I really had to think about it, the only area where I have maybe changed my views since leaving GB News is on this idea of politicians being able to present TV shows.

1:18:50And Nigel Farage was obviously a colleague of mine at GB News for many years, and he appeared on my show every single week. but at that point he wasn't the leader of a party because he had stepped back and he had gone full-on in his media career and Richard Tice was the leader of Reform UK and so I used to have very different interviews with Richard compared to what I had with Nigel Farage because Richard was the leader of that party and very often he wouldn't be happy with me right because I'd challenge him hard if he was on the show because that was my responsibility as a journalist because he is the leader of a political party nigel at that point was a commentator and he was a commentator who i hugely admired and respected great track record but i didn't have to challenge him in the same way that i felt i had to challenge a party leader and i really have felt quite uncomfortable seeing what's happened at GB News since Nigel became the leader of the party and they've sort of become the propaganda arm of that party.

1:20:00And even though a lot of their viewers support Reform UK, that's not what I think the role of a journalist is or a news organisation is. So that's maybe the only area where I've sort of started to listen to the left a little bit. But remember, I'm not a hypocrite because they think it's totally fine for David Lammy and Angela Rayner to present radio shows on LBC right whereas I would say well you can't have one rule for Nigel Farage I mean a different rule for David Lammy and Angela Rayner do you see what I mean I just don't really think politicians should be hosting tv shows at all I mean you don't see it in America you don't see serving politicians in America hosting a tv show you see former politicians that's a different thing.

1:20:45Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I do. It seems like a conflict of interest. Seems like the way they can use it as a propaganda machine. But I also hate the off-communists and think that they should be barred. So I want to be clear, like, I don't want the off-communists to be given more power. It's more that I feel like a respectful decision probably should have been taken between GB News and Nigel to be like, this sort of doesn't work. Do you see what I mean? But obviously he gets the ratings and they want to keep him. But that's maybe the only area where I've sort of moved my position. OK, so in a moment, I'm going to ask you to be positive about the UK and pitch to us why it's still a great place to stay and why we should stay and fight and what you would do to change it.

1:21:33But first, is there a secret you've never shared or a story you've never told? Well, I mean... That one. No, it's that I guess I was just thinking what I probably had just said was one of those things. But no, I mean, no, I mean, I guess because obviously I've always been so open when I've been on these shows with you. I guess the only thing maybe that I've never really spoken that much about, but certainly was very difficult for me, was discovering post-cancellation, right? How a lot of people who you maybe thought were in your corner were actually only really there because of what they perceived your influence to be in the mainstream media space.

1:22:31But then I'm not saying that was a huge surprise because I've been through a lot of highs and lows in my career. You know, I was at the News of the World when the News of the World was shut in 2011. And so you lose a lot of friends there. So it's not that I was naive to it, but I guess it's just, it's still quite a hurtful thing, I guess. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think about things like this a lot as friends come and go. And, you know, I suppose we all have a selfish gene. um we need it for survival and i suppose in the if you look over a hundred year timeline people are going to come and go yeah um yeah and also you know are people really loyal to you no no and so that was a big learning for me i guess but as i say it's not that i was naive about it but but you're asking but when you're hurt it hurts oh yeah and you're asking for me to share something which maybe I don't talk about a lot because that was a very, very painful period for me, right?

1:23:38A very, very painful period. I'm coming out of the other side now. I love the new business that I've created. I love that I get to do what I do, but it still hurts that there were people who I felt that I was very, very loyal to who, because you were not connected to a bigger organisation felt like they were all of a sudden happy or prepared to walk away from you. And maybe they did it because, you know, they were worried about self-preservation or whatever it happened to be. But it's sort of, it's quite a, it's a brutal side of the world that we're in. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to be independent.

1:24:17And I do think one of the things that people on the right in the UK are really bad at is just standing up for each other when times are bad. Yeah yeah I think we can all do that a little bit more but I also understand because you know I speak out a lot like you do I have a lot to lose a lot to lose and you know I'm in the board and and probably two to three times a year I'm being challenged because of something I said which I think is really important to speak out about because it could hurt my 100 staff I've got a fiduciary responsibility to the company and I understand people's fear and reticence especially given the climate that we're yeah and it's so easy to just be shut down and cancelled I mean do you not are you not scared of being Andrew Tate level cancelled or even Charlie Kirk level I mean you you know your show's blown up um by the way you know when I first interviewed you you were just come out of your worst time and I couldn't really say it but I wanted to say I'm so happy for you Dan because you're going to blow up obviously you've blown up you're completely independent um but are you not worried because you're quite powerful now I mean look you'd be silly not to be worried at all but does it stop me doing or saying anything no because once you've gone through a really brutal cancellation and my cancellation was brutal right there are a whole load of tactics used and people can go and watch out former interviews to find out because i went into all of them but you know they were all of them weren't there there were police tactics used There were sexual tactics.

1:26:07You know, they threw everything at me to cancel me and they succeeded. But there is such a freedom in coming through a brutal cancellation like that. I feel like I'm laser focused now. I know what I'm doing. I know why I'm doing it. I think that really matters too. And when you're part of the corporate media, the regime media, no matter how important your principles are, which obviously to me, they were always incredibly important. And I think any of my viewers or listeners knew that, but you're still having to sort of make your way up that greasy pole. And the two things don't naturally combine.

1:26:49So I just know there's a whole load of people who absolutely tried to destroy me. They wanted me dead. And I came through and I'll hopefully come through as they keep trying. But you're not scared? Not scared. Scared is not the right word, but I think concerned, worried about the sort of really terrifying developments that keep coming. And certainly the assassination of Charlie Kerr, you would be crazy to not look at that and think, oh my god is it worth it not so much is it worth it because it is worth it but just think this is horrible and this job is not as straightforward as what people might make it out as because of course Charlie Kirk was a target because he had become so powerful and he was unelected you know had never run for office and yet he was so powerful that they needed to take him out it's it's an inspiration in a way of course it is also really worrying and concerning but you know i i live i live my life and i live my life without fear and i live my life as if tomorrow could be the end of my life right you know and certainly coming through cancellation that was one of the big things that i learned because you can put all your time and your energy into something and then it goes yeah yeah wow right let's finish on the most positive apex of podcast has ever seen and let's fight for the UK tell me a few things that are still great about Great Britain and what can we do to fix the United Kingdom well I think I mean there are so many things that are still great right I it's so funny though when you said that that because i obviously love my food the first thing that came to mind was just fish and chips which is so bad but no like look we are still an absolutely beautiful country right in so many ways and there are so many parts of this united kingdom where the world is envious of us our beautiful countryside our incredible heritage buildings i mean you go and walk around a city like Edinburgh.

1:29:21And to this day, I pinch myself. It's like you're in a movie scene. You know, we are so lucky. And sometimes we do take this for granted. We still have the best culture in the world. We have the best restaurants in the world. What we have to do is make sure that we don't just sign away what does make us British and make us English on the altar of this thing which I believe has failed called multiculturalism. So I think we've got to lean into the things that make us great, right? So that is our amazing English breakfast. That is our incredible afternoon teas. that is our great passion for football and our support for clubs so there are so many things I mean look for me there's still nothing better than going to see a show on the west end of London I just hope that I'm not mugged outside for my wallet during the interval we're trying to keep this positive but you know what i mean that to me is still and obviously the british royal family is is such an important part of who we are it's a really difficult period for the monarchy it was always going to be a difficult period after the death of queens of the second but absolutely i think it makes us different i think it makes it special you know i cover the royal family on my show yeah every single day i am a monarchist proudly and i do think it sets us apart actually from a lot of other democracies because it means there's something that we can come together around and that's important.

1:31:06That isn't political. What are you working on? We'll shout out your shows in a moment, but is there anything you've got in the pipeline that you can tell us or is it just daily news? So I'm wanting to focus on some bigger projects as we go, but certainly at the moment, I mean, the news agenda is just super intense. super super intense it's wild isn't it yeah and i mean we do a daily news show five days a week at 5 p.m uk time live on outspoken on outspoken on our youtube channel but then i also have a separate royal show which is again five days a week and that covers just the royal news and that broadcasts first on my sub stack yeah and to be honest like oh my god that is look that is something I as I hope Outspoken grows and becomes more successful I'd love to have a little bit more time there for example we spoke earlier in the show about Peter Lynch like I would love to be able to go and properly investigate that case right at the moment I'm pretty chained to that daily news agenda but that's important and always that was what I thought outspoken needed to be because there are so many people who do look at what you're doing great in-depth interviews right there are a lot of people who are doing stuff like that what there wasn't was an independent show that would do the news every single day so so that's my focus that's my passion but certainly I hope that I'm going to have a bit more time to do some more in-depth work as we go.

1:32:49But it's a crazy ride. Yeah. And so it's called Outspoken on YouTube. Yeah. Dan Wotton Outspoken and we're on YouTube, but we're also available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And actually the platform that I do push the most is Substack. And my Substack address is www.outspoken.live. So outspoken.live. just because for some of the things that we've spoken about today there is reason to be nervous and substack is a genuinely free speech platform so on substack i'm protected from lawfare like they'll back me when it comes to lawfare um there's no censorship whatsoever like substack's very very famous for that yeah and people can subscribe completely for free but if people do want to do that little bit extra and you know it's those little micro payments which mean the world and allow me to keep the show going so like you can sign up as a monthly member for five pounds a month that's really important and also like on substat it's really great you have this direct connection with people i can message people in my community direct we host like live chats like it's a it takes away some of those algorithm issues that we spoke about with youtube but also some of the toxicity of a platform like x do you see what i mean it's a community so that's been a really it's it's a real special platform for me substack well dan as you know i'm a big supporter of you and everyone else should go and support dan and his great work thanks for being on the show rob i love it thank you so much

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