How to Make Millions on OnlyFans with Liam Turnbull

25:27That's how simple it is. And if someone was starting a podcast or launching an information business, would you be saying pretty much the same thing? What are you passionate about? Because whatever you're passionate about, you'll have better discussions about on your podcast. You'll offer more value in your info product, right? It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't even matter if it's a business or not. If you're passionate about something, you'll be better at it. The same with the sport. So in my view, it's an absolute non-negotiable to do something that you're genuinely passionate about. So come back to the business model in a moment.

25:56There's a couple more questions. I want to talk about you for a bit because one of the reasons we're here is because you're a very unique person and I've never met anyone who's doing as well in the agency world in the space of only fans, models, creators and is 25. There's three unique. I could have found anyone in one of those, but not all three. Yeah. Is it lonely doing what you do? No. And that's because really, No, because I believe in culture and team, and that's what we've centered our business around. We've got a lot of staff, and we pile them all into an office every day, and we encourage them to hit the gym.

26:34We're currently building a new facility where people can train in a state-of-the-art gym. They can use spa facilities on site. We encourage everybody to bring their car to work, especially if they're into cars. And we make it a culture, right? There's ping pong, there's pool. It's sort of that Google Office-like thing. But everybody there is there for a reason, right? If you want to get a job at TDM, you have to be vouched for by somebody within the company. You can't just apply, unless, of course, you're a super specific talent that we absolutely need and don't know. But the vast majority, especially of sort of the core business that have been there for years, are best friends that we know.

27:07And so it's created a very nice culture where everybody gets on. But, of course, people care about the business as well. So there's quite a high standard that's been set, which means that people that come in have no choice but to, A, make friends, and B, meet standards. so we find that that's been a huge thing as far as building our culture out which has transpired to our business growing very well so you also don't really like this work from home thing that's pervaded it's tough because i totally get the the the reasons why it's effective um you know it eliminates the need to rent offices as you know is incredibly expensive nowadays buying or renting offices is not a cheap thing anymore you don't have to buy your own hardware there are many perks to it and i also feel somewhat okay with the idea because we have to do it because we can't fit over all of our staff into our current office so we have to um but you could potentially be all remote if you wanted to totally but i choose not to and i think that you know that comes back to um one of the key reasons why i want to do this i'm a very team-driven person i totally agree with you if it were just me in this business i wouldn't work anywhere near as hard as i do and i think it's that competitive nature as well you know most of our team are I think we're probably 70 % guys, and there's a lot of competitive nature between us all.

28:19It's who can be in the office first and out last. It's that kind of hustle culture. So I think that's transpired to our business growing, and it's definitely transpired to me being happier and being able to continue working the hours I do every day. Totally. Are you misunderstood at all? Yeah, probably. And how does that make you feel? Again, totally cool with it because I do it for me. I do it for me and people around me, and me and everyone around me is happy. So it doesn't bother me, but I think I'm misunderstood. Quite a stern-faced, serious guy. You know, I'm very driven towards my goal every day.

28:54I'm not going to say yes if you want to go to the pub. I'm not going to say yes if you want to just hang out without an agenda. Antisocial, strange maybe, or driven, right? One of the two. And what about, you know, people judging you for running an OnlyFans agency? Do you get that a lot? Do you get judgment? weirdly before more than i do now a lot i've taken to the internet in the last couple of years to produce a lot of content to try and convey that actually you can still make money in the adult world by being a normal corporate respectful moral person yeah uh so that's helped in terms of people maybe see something before they judge um but it's also becoming more accepted isn't it right if you were an only fans career five years ago it was harder than it is today because the left has pushed an agenda that it's totally fine to be who you want to be um and in general i think people have just become more accepting of it's part of society now there's enough money being made to justify this is just something that we're going to live with it's not going to disappear it will just change forms yeah and is being an only fans model different to porn yeah totally in the eyes of the customer because it's a relationship rather than a content it takes out the transactional nature of it it's more about them satisfying you know how they feel oftentimes the the customers look to a creator as a means of someone to talk to someone to make friends with someone to talk to something about whereas with porn it's a case of meeting a certain need based on a transactional need right so i think that's the difference yeah okay so let's carry on with your business model then so you you outreach and get referrals to get your new only fans models then you help them with their branding and positioning to i guess improve um building their audience what else you do for them and how else does the business work as i said the key concept is is the entire economy right so whatever that creator needs to grow so if they are on quite a tight schedule then it might be handling a lot of the posting for them a lot of the the sort of intense um time consuming parts of being a creator.

30:59For some of the creators that are willing to work hard, but maybe less creative, it's more about the ideation, right? It's coming up with things that will move them forward in their journey as a creator. So it's very, very case dependent. It's also very dependent on where they are and the kind of person that they are, because certain creators will have a very different style of content based on who they are. You know, if, for example, I mentioned the two examples earlier with the gym and the gaming, right? If they're incredible at gaming, then they want to stream. We can't stream for them, right?

31:28We can't actually do that. So it's a case of making sure that they've got everything they need. They can get as much out of that stream as possible. As many clips, as cool of a setup, as much ideation, as much gameplay ideation. So it's all about meeting the needs of that particular person for what they can do. Whereas the gym girl maybe just hits the gym all the time and it's our job to make the content out of that, right? They just record the sets in the training session. We do the rest. So it very much depends on who they are and what their needs are specifically. Okay. Do you own the biggest OnlyFans agency in the UK?

31:59Without a doubt in the UK for sure. Without a doubt? It's actually public record. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because one of the main CRMs that host majority of the agencies are now public about a leaderboard, which is interesting. Right. Because it creates this transparent, competitive nature. Yeah. Which I think is great. I love transparency. I love competitiveness. So I think it's awesome. Right. So how does it feel running the biggest business of your type in the country age 25? Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. I feel as though it's been the case for a number of years now. So we've consolidated how that feels and I'm more interested in maintaining it, right?

32:34What can we do to stay ahead? Because getting ahead was easy because we were one of the first movers. It's not high leverage to be ahead as a first mover. It's high leverage to stay ahead. Yeah. So I think that's the main focus. Okay. So at five to seven million a month, you're at 60 to 80 plus million a year. How big can you make this business? How many could you do 200 million a year in revenue? Is that possible? Yeah, I think that's absolutely feasible because there are individual creators, you know, that can quickly double up what we do. Right. There are some creators on the platform that will make what our agency makes as a single creator.

33:13Wow. So if you add a couple of those on, you know, let's say that they suddenly decide they want to adopt management services and we were able to pick up a few of those, then we would look at tripling, quadrupling our revenue with a handful of creators. And obviously, creators of that size are only looking to the most experienced, the most decorated agencies. So it's a very real possibility that we'll pick up more of that as well. So I absolutely think it's feasible. Yeah, totally. Whether or not it's doable realistically is a question of how good you are at what you do, which is what we dedicate every day to.

33:45So it's on us if we do, and it's on us if we don't. Yeah. So would you advise anyone to start an OnlyFans agency in 2025 and beyond? If it meets your morality and ethics and you're totally okay with it and the way that you do business is something that you can genuinely go home and be proud about and talk to your parents about, then yeah. So you talk to your parents about this stuff? Yeah, totally. Yeah, they're completely cool with it. And as I say, I'm proud of it. And so are they. At first, were they a bit like Liam? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. But I think that's natural for parents to question what you're doing anyway, right?

34:16They would sort of, I mean, my dad was someone who has always had a very straight and narrow perspective. So when I first was considering going full-time with my business, my fitness coaching, to the extent that I'd drop out of university, he would sort of sit me down and ask me the questions of like, is this really the right move, right? He was totally on board with the morality and the ethics of the business that I was doing, but he still sit me down and make me realize the decision that I'm making. Do I think it's the right one? But I'm fortunate as well. I have great parents. You know, they're very open-minded.

34:44They're very supportive. And Cam's the same. So I think no matter what we did, if we feel like we're doing the right thing and we are proud of what we do, they would be too. As it's an online-based business, are the margins quite high? Yeah, they can be. They can be. They can be at the expense of the creator as well. So this is what I kind of referenced when I mentioned to you about the whole Pimpology stuff earlier on, because a lot of agencies will take to that literally. It's like, oh, well, there's 100 % of the account earnings available here. I'm only going to pay you 10, and you didn't get to say anything about it, right?

35:11And that's their business model. And they'll make great margins for how long is my question, but they will make a great margin. So you could make 90 % margins if you want to, but I don't think you can make 90 % margins of a respectable turnover, right? If you want to push your revenue to where we are, you can't do that on 90 % margins because the kind of creators that you need to leverage an agency growing like that just don't have the reasons to work with you at such stupid margins. So in my view, it's short-sighted and it will hold you back long-term. I'd sooner have a 50 % margin of a 5 million turnover than I would a 90 % over 50K.

35:46But yeah, I mean, typically it's totally fair to justify 50-50 margins with creators. We will do less than that in some cases as well. I think it totally depends on how much we do. If we're only handling a few things for them, charging 50-50 is not fair. So we'll charge way less. Right. Okay, so you're pumping in this 5 to 7 million a month. Obviously, your net is lower than the gross. What are you doing with your profits? Are you investing in other assets? Are you launching your businesses? So you're buying some cars? you just spunking it all what are you doing with all the money we absolutely enjoyed it to begin with um we never got into sort of partying or drugs or alcohol or anything degenerate we've never done that whether before we had money and now that we do right that was never an interest for us um cam hasn't drank in best part of a year i've never been a drinker in fact i had years of drinking nothing at all for weightlifting so we're not into that so the whole sort of spunking stuff Yeah, but you still spunk it on private jets.

36:44But I don't think they're spunking it because a private jet realistically is. Yeah, but you can get a good business class seat with your British. For the same price in some cases, right? A private jet doesn't have to be that expensive. You can fly on a chartered jet for five grand if you want to. Well, from here to Jersey, maybe. Yeah, maybe. You're not going to get to Dubai on that, are you? No, but then why would you need to fly? Why would you fly chartered to Dubai, right? It's business class is comfier. Yeah, that's my point. and business class you get the you get the flatbed business class you rack up your air miles business class is totally better long haul i don't know what kind of idiot is flying to dubai on a private jet other than someone who's trying to flex but it's a private flex because you can get the same picture flying here to france right so we would we've adopted private jets as an experience tool right i've done three in my life i've done one with cam and the team which was our first ever experience i've done one with my mom i've done one with my dad right they're an experience thing yeah they're not a flex thing they're not i'm too good for normal planes thing that was me having a moment of my lifetime with my family right yeah which is totally justified in my view totally worth it not spunking it i'd do it again yeah um but aside from that i mean we don't even always fly business right i fly economy a lot of the time i'm totally cool with that as well right i'm a normal kid like everybody else was yeah so the alt the spunking stuff has been the cars right that's where we've blown a lot of money we've been quite selective we pick cars that make sense you know We pick cars like a Pista and we pick cars like an 812 Superfast that hold money or even maybe appreciate long term.

38:09So again, we're not being idiots about it, but we're definitely enjoying it. And I think that's something that everyone should go through because it helps you move on. Because once you've done that and you've got the materialism out of the way, which we've absolutely done. Until the next. Well, you ask yourself what next. Until the next supercar comes out. But then it becomes purpose though, because there's only so many supercars before eventually you're just kind of chopping and changing the same amount of money. Let's say you buy five to ten supercars, right? you don't need to keep buying them.

38:33You'd likely just keep swapping them around. So your actual net investment into that would never increase. So then you ask yourself the question of like, okay, well, what am I doing now? Where am I going? And then I think you find purpose at that point, right? You set your real destiny. Like my dream is to run a public company and I'm happy to say that on camera, right? That's what I want to do. Whether or not I end up doing it depends on how it stacks up for me. Yeah. Do you think you'd get investment into a business model like this? Could you take it to the market? I don't know. I don't know where this business model can go, right?

39:02The perspective of the industry is already evolving tremendously in the last five years. I don't know where we're planning to take it either, right? But if we're looking at the legal side and the financial side, then totally, yeah, I do. When I set that goal, it's not necessarily that I want to take this business public. It's just a dream of mine, right? That's where I want to go. I'm very interested in corporate culture. I'm very interested in running a business. I'm not motivated in the slightest by a beach, by peace, by freedom, even just by sort of money in a bank. None of that really matters to me.

39:30It's very much like when I look at, so I was walking around your office today and I thought that was super cool. I don't know if you noticed, but I was sort of just taking it all in. This is amazing. I'm motivated by big teams. I'm motivated by amazing office spaces. That whole having a big company. Maybe it's the ego, but that's what it is for me. Yeah. Okay. So you're not really spunked it on women, drugs and alcohol. You've spunked it a bit on cars, but some of them have retained the value. Moderate spunk. You're a boring 25-year-old. Yeah, totally. No, I mean, right at my, you know, this is the way I think about things.

40:07But tell us some big purchases you've made. Do you buy property? Do you invest in property? Yeah, we do. So we've gone into property. I invest a lot in personally into sort of stocks and cryptos as well. Right. So I am very much invested. I'm invested diversely. You know, we've just gone into a huge office space, which is obviously an expensive build. Yeah. you're building it are you? yeah we've built it from the ground up so it's a 15 ,000 square foot facility it's got spa it's got full fledged gym you know with state of the art equipment I reckon the equipment's worth 200k which we've recently invested into spa facilities you know this multi-floor fully glass soundproof insulated office something that you own yeah totally yeah exactly so that's obviously very expensive right and look you've got to remember that we've only been in it for a few years the margins aren't 100 % so naturally I guess we're still actively finding ways to spend the money as well right we haven't sort of been in it for 20 years where we've got a system in place for what we do with our money it's changing so fast that well first it was what can we do with family then it's what cool cars can we buy then it's about experience and travel you know i've been to 55 60 countries at my age which is which is cool so traveling has been an investment um and now it's the office space right and and these things generally tend to take a lot of that investment at the time um but where that goes in the future is still to be determined.

41:26So of your 14 supercars, you're allowed to pick three and you've got to give the rest to me. Which three do you keep? Well, I definitely wouldn't be giving you the Pista because I think it's an incredible drive. Yeah. Yeah, and they didn't make many of them, did they? No, they're quite rare. Yeah. They're quite rare. Yeah, I think they've got... It's 488, is it? 488 Pista. It's the Pista, yeah. I think it's got the ability to follow the trajectory of the Speciale. I think it could run away a little bit. They're currently sat, I've paid around 300k. They're currently sat around that. I think they'll go maybe 320, 330 in the next year or two.

42:00So I can't have that. No, that one's absolutely not coming over. Okay, fine. 812 super fast because the driving experience with a Novotec exhaust and the comfortability of the 812 is incredible. You don't think they're an overrated, overpriced car? No, because again, it's an experience thing. I also think they're going to consolidate in price relatively. How much do you pay for yours? 220 odd. Oh, okay. So I think they'll sit. And do you think they'll go up long term? I don't know about go up. No. I'm not invested financially into that one. But I don't think it'll lose a lot either. No. And then we're currently in the process of buying an SVJ Roadster.

42:37Okay. So if I had that. The one I said there's no point having. It's not that I don't like it. It's just we were talking and I've got the standard Aventador. Yeah. And what is it? About half the money. I mean, I probably get, what, 200 for my Aventador? But what's an SVJ now? $5.50. $5.50? Mm-hmm. So why? The financial return. Right. So you are doing it as an investment. Yeah, that one's one that will probably drive less because I genuinely see that tracking to a million. And we'll have one of the best examples, you know, roadster, very low mileage, desirable spare comfort seats. So I think if you pick the right one with the lowest mileage, they're the ones that will track up.

43:14I honestly think that could return us a good long-term investment. And it's also super cool, you know, And we could absolutely do a couple hundred miles a year in that. You can truck it into Monaco and you could do 50 miles in a day and have a really cool day without really harming the mileage. So I think it's a good investment. And because we'll only use it for business marketing, it's VAT qualifying. It makes sense for the business. Right. So do you own some of these cars within the business then? Yeah. So we owned them all personally to begin with because the company wasn't old enough to buy them.

43:41Right. Because we're young as well. So the company was only a year old. It didn't have that many years of accounts. but fortunately we're registered in the UK and we pay our taxes. So for us, it's quite easy now to leverage that company. So we are moving everything over to the company that we can do anyway. Which means you're owning the cars before tax, not after tax. Yeah, so only the cars that meet criteria. Obviously, you can't just put the car in the company. It has to meet certain criteria. What are the criteria? To be transparent, it's not something I know inside out, but it's oftentimes to do, well, if the car meets a certain weight limit, if it's to do with, if it's electric, um, if it's used entirely for business purposes, then of course you can use it as a company car without the need for benefit and kind.

44:26Yeah. Whereas if the car is just being basically used personally, but you're using it through the business, obviously it doesn't stand. So we do still own personal cars. Do you feel Q rich? Depends how you define that. I can absolutely do what I want. So yeah. So basically, you've got enough money that if someone wants you to do something you don't want to do you can say yeah yeah totally but i think you that that comes a lot easier now i think there are a lot of things that give you sort of you ability like status social following being in shape yeah a lot of things give you the the mental capacity to have that mindset yeah but if you if you don't have the financial power then you're stuck aren't you yeah maybe a little bit yeah Yeah.

45:13And was there a time when you felt like now I'm rich? So I'll give you an example, right? I asked Andrew Tate this question and he said, Bugatti, nah. Private Jet, nah. We've just ordered a super yacht, nah. But when I know I can order a$900 steak and not even look at the price of the steak, that made me feel f***ing rich. Because sometimes it's not the most expensive thing you buy. No, I understand. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, like he spent 10 grand on a dinner and not even look at the bill. and he says he'll order six plates of food and he's a bit of that, a bit of that, a bit of that, and a bit of that.

45:43The reality is most restaurants and sort of day-to-day expenditure isn't anywhere near as expensive as a lot of the big purchases that you have to think about. So it does become quite casual to go out for a dinner that's a few grand because when you run a six-figure payroll every week, then quickly you're making things work for the payroll, for the VAT, for the corporation tax. These are the things that you worry about. These are the problems that you're scared of. the finance payment on a car, right? Like my piece is like three grand a month. It's less than a member of staff. But if I hired a member of staff, I wouldn't care.

46:16You wouldn't even notice. So I do feel a little bit like that because no matter what car we want to buy, we can. It's more a case of like logistics. We don't have the space to buy them, right? So it's definitely a case of f*** you money in that sense because it doesn't mean that much to us. But I don't feel like that aligns with my personality, really, as you can see. Yeah, but there must be a moment where you've... There's been some great moments where I've been very grateful and kind of looked around and thought, this is cool. Specifically the private jets, right? I don't get those out of my head.

46:47They're a stupid expense and they're worse than a business class flight, right? But there's something about it, right? You're the only ones on the plane. It's cool. And as I say, I took my dad initially. We flew from Gran Canaria to Portugal. Nice, easy flight, couple of hours, relatively inexpensive, but an experience I'll never forget, right? And on that trip, Cam also took his parents. We went with our parents. It was great. They were with us for a business meeting, and then we flew back to Portugal for a few days. And it was such a good experience. I remember sitting up there, drinking whiskey, looking out the window as if to say, this is something I won't ever forget, and I haven't.

47:20And then I also took my mom away for her birthday. I took her to Paris. We went on a jet. So that was just me and her and then my brother and sister, and it was an amazing experience as well. And we had the chance to live the pinnacle of good life. And again, it was relatively inexpensive. so for me their experiences i'll never forget and they definitely were moments where because again the price doesn't really matter right it's like i don't even know what they are like five to ten k like maybe ten grand i think it was relatively inexpensive right a couple of staff yeah but what an experience so i definitely think there's an element of fuck you money but i think it's easier to get than you think you don't need to be able to order a shoe on a stator or whatever to feel like that if you can just pick the bill up even if it is a few hundred a few hundred quid You can pick the bill up to pay it without looking.

48:04That's a good feeling. Okay. And what do you think of people like Lily Phillips and Bonnie Blue, like literally just spraying sex everywhere? I think Bonnie and Lily are exceptional examples of branding. I really sort of admire those. So do you think they're as much marketers as they are? Totally, totally. I don't have an opinion on their personal decisions because I'm not a girl and I'm not involved. It's not up for me to decide, right? that's for yeah but you're allowed your opinion yeah totally and i don't have an opinion on that i have an opinion on them from a business standpoint i think they're incredible business women because the way that they've marketed themselves is in a way where they are impossible to ignore right the key of marketing and branding is being rememberable that's the entire objective and they've done that incredibly well right they've used numerical specificity insane shock value so they're wiping the floor with the industry i don't know what their account earnings are but i wouldn't be surprised if bonnie did a million a month really a million a month and how old is she she must be in her 20s i don't actually know how old she is but i wouldn't be surprised if she did right and that's just because i've done an analysis of bonnie on youtube before where i broke down everything that she did all the content that she produced how she funneled subscribers oh really there's a bit of piece of content on it yeah i've done a piece of content on her there's a bit of work to be done um as far as kind of getting the most out of everyone that views her content but i think as far as capturing eyeballs right which is the first principle of any marketing framework right attention then interest desire conviction action satisfaction so she's got step one bang on right and there's definitely interest there as well because it's like she did what and then you're kind of interested in figuring it out you're like well i've got to either validate it myself and go watch the video or look into her more or watch her on a podcast right there's a bit of interest there the desire is up for up for debate but she definitely creates enough attention and interest so as far as a market she's incredible and would would you like to get a creator like her on your agency?

49:59I imagine the logistics and the mental headspace are a difficult one to manage. I also would only be interested in working with a creator like that if they'd already made that decision. Again, our entire core belief system is that we don't change the narrative. We don't help them or make them do anything they weren't previously doing. So, for example, Bonnie would be a great candidate. Somebody who was thinking about becoming Bonnie wouldn't, if that makes sense. Right, yeah, okay. and um how much does your top creator bring in a month mid ones so 1.5 1.5 million a month but it does change drastically from like 1.8 to 1 so 1 to 1.8 million a month yeah and an only fans creator brings in wow should we um i've got grok here i've been using grok a lot more um should we see if it can bring out the top OnlyFans creators.

50:52Did I read somewhere once? Because when we launched our podcast agency, I was trying to talk about creators and how much you can make. And I think I used the top OnlyFans creators just as an example. And I think Blac Chyna was making something like 200 million a year. Yeah, there was a reported 20 mil a month. I mean, you've got... 20 mil a month. If you exclude celebrities, some of the biggest creators on the platform are people like Sophie Rain. Right? I don't know who that is. She reported 44 million a year, I believe it was. It was 4 million a month, roughly. I think it was 44 million a year, and it was like a tweet, I think.

51:25But I believe it was. I actually haven't seen it. Oh, 30 million plus. Sophie Rain, did you say? Yeah. Iggy. Azalea. 36 million. These are all celebrities, though. Babby. Bad Babby. Yeah. See, I don't know. I don't know any of this. They're all sort of celebs. Right. Right. Oh, Belle Delphine. She was the one that sold her used bath water, wasn't she? She made like something in the millions just selling used bath water. Yeah. I mean, she sold quite a few things. What else has she sold? Her doll. She recently made a doll with like, I believe the vagina's modified the same way as hers was. It's incredible, really.

52:09I don't know how much it was worth. Okay, now. But it's not what it's made out to be, right? The more explicit you are isn't necessarily linearly correlated to the more money you make. In fact, oftentimes the opposite. The hottest girls tend to make the least money, which sounds crazy, but it's true. And it's because they aren't very well branded. The reality is it's so easy to find hot girls online because they're on porn for free in the millions of videos. So you can find a 4K video of beautiful women in the most explicit nature for free on Pornhub. so why would you pay for that transactional content on only fans why would you right because if it's just that they're hot there's nothing unique about it most people are looking to solve some sort of unique problem so taking to a creator that's incredibly specific as i say like goth gamer something that they can bond with right that's what sells this episode is brought to you by facebook so you were scrolling on marketplace and there it was the bike you'd been searching for you sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty kind of funny and an avid cyclist the next thing you know you're in a cycling crew well a community cycling group the thing about facebook you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer find more on facebook where do you think we are in the world with masculinity do you think that um maybe masculinity has been challenged do you think as men we've become weaker um what do you think i think men have totally become weaker we at this point it's obvious right even an idiot could see that if you rewind a few years to where someone like tate was you know first making content it was a very niche group of people that saw the light i suppose whereas i think now the the mass population recognize what's occurring right and they've made sense of a lot of the mainstream media's agenda but i do think it's softened i think we're coming back around i think there are a lot of political and influential people who have shown enough for your average joe blogs to see the reality of where we are yeah i also think to be honest with you it's a lot of the time irrelevant you know no matter what your beliefs are or where you are in the world or what you thinks going on you can still pave your own way and you can still create an amazing life your life is what the environment that you facilitate right so you can create whatever life you want you haven't really got to worry about what's going on in the wider world until you've got enough leverage around you to care yeah because when you've made enough money you have enough leverage you've got a good enough network suddenly those things become interesting but they shouldn't be interesting for the average guy there's more importance to worry about than what's going on in the political the political world as an only fans agency owner the biggest in the uk do you find it problem getting yourself a good girl no because i don't think that it changes who you are as a person i think it's a job at the end of the day right like anything else so if i worked in manufacturing finance or adult so the normal guy who goes to work yeah but women still want to know what you do and but they probably like that it's interesting right because are you with someone at the moment Yeah.

55:23And what does she think of it all? Yeah, totally supportive and... No jealousy. No, transparently happy because I'm still a good guy and I'm on a mission to where I want to be in life. I think whatever you do for work is frankly irrelevant because I think as a guy you can be... Is it though? Yes, because you can be an interesting enough character no matter what your industry. Yeah, but as a guy, a male who can provide, what you do is a key driver in what you provide. But it doesn't directly correlate to your income based on the industry, right? You can be incredibly successful in any industry.

55:54So if I said to you, if we said to a girl, here, there's industry you don't like, but happens to make multiple six figures, however physically capable you want them to be, relatively generous, family man, interesting character, mysterious. Or there's over here, there's a guy who is in an amazing industry. He's a super nice guy. He's in a great industry that's perceived incredibly well by the public, but he doesn't happen to make much money. He's not really in shape. he's not very charismatic, he doesn't have big dreams, he doesn't care about family, they're still going to pick this one because there are things that carry more weight.

56:29So yes, the industry makes the difference, but it's way less significant than something else. So I think if you're a guy who's competent, you can solve problems in day-to-day life as well as business life. You're mysterious enough, you're interesting enough, you've got cool characteristics, you know, you can drive well, you can, I don't know, shoot guns, fly planes, that's interesting to people, no matter what your industry. Okay. Do you feel that your view of women has been somewhat tainted and soiled because of the agency you own? You've seen a lot of creators. No, because I still have my own personal life, right?

57:01So I judge people based on that. And I think your average girl, right, hasn't necessarily changed based on this industry becoming more popular. So no, I don't think it has. My sexual exploration maybe, because you are incredibly saturated to it and numbed by it. Right. You know, when you see it all day every day, which of course we do, you suddenly become more numb to it. So nudity, lingerie, these sort of things that a lot of these normal guys find incredibly interesting and hot suddenly become Monday morning. But I don't think the relationship is affected. What would you say is the best and worst thing about doing five to seven million a month as an OnlyFans agency owner?

57:43Well, the best thing is the freedom, right? Although freedom isn't my only goal, and I'm totally, totally invested in the stress that comes with it, because that's what I want at the moment. That's my goal. The freedom is, of course, a nicety. I'm a family man, right? I love spending time with my parents. I love spending time with my siblings. So being able to give back to them, being able to spend more time with them without any time schedule, without having to go to work, being able to buy cars, travel around the world. That's the benefit, right? Because it's awesome. And the team that I can build.

58:12bringing everybody that I care about into the office, paying them well, and being a part of a culture together, moving towards a bigger thing. That's the pro. The con is the whole, oh, my life, look at that bill. Look at that bill. I've got to pay that. I've got to do this. All of the boring stuff that comes with that. I never thought that I'd be writing GDPR contracts and all this sort of bollocks when starting an OnlyFans agency. But any corporate business has to. It's no different. So that's definitely one of the downsides. I also think it's the stress about what next, always thinking about how can we improve, not just in our industry, but in life.

58:49Where else can we invest? What's the next move? Do we do more businesses? Do we stay focused on the core business? Because I think people can get lost in that diversification realm. I need more diversification. I need to be risk tolerant. Well, okay, but at the expense of your core business, even providing that opportunity. Because if you've got a good business and you forget about it to do another one, you've lost all your leverage anyway. So I think they're difficult things to manage. Okay. I know you're only 25, but what's the biggest risk you've ever taken in your life? Going transparent about adult, probably.

59:19Because you adopt an opinion then for life, right? Like I'm on this podcast talking to you about my exposure to working in adult. So there will be people who watch this who hate me for that without even listening, right? They'll look at me the first sentence. Yeah, we'll make sure with the title and the thumbnail that we get. Objectify me, right? And so they'll look at the title and thumbnail and hate me. So that's definitely a downside. But that could happen with anything, couldn't it? I care incredibly. I'm super indifferent to that. It means nothing to me whether you like me or hate me. So it's not a problem for me.

59:49But that is, without doubt, the biggest risk. Because for a lot of people, that can knock them about, right? Mental health, et cetera. I've been called things before, just casually, locally in my local town. People who know me, people who went to school with me, they might say things. Harmless stuff, really. But I guess that's the risk. Yeah. biggest regret maybe not investing sooner you know maybe sort of doing all the travel and car buying before the sensible investing but then again that's also a life experience that i've learned from so i don't have too many regrets really quite a happy person very content with my situation very driven for the future very motivated still i still work 14 hours plus a day um and i'm totally cool with it i can't wait to get to the office right so i think i'm very content so I don't have any regrets really net worth totally do you invest in your own knowledge or do you just do 14 hours a day of work and that's your experience or you know do courses read books have mentors what do you do weirdly I was I wasn't against books but I never found them interesting until about eight months ago so I grew this business to a very successful place based on very little personal investment into education which was never something that I was sort of against I just never did it it wasn't like a I don't believe in it sort of thing I just didn't bother.

1:01:01But I've started bothering, you know, and I took on a few books in the last few months. I average about a book a week on Audible. I'm getting through good ones. I drive a lot. I listen to a book here. I'll listen to a book on the way back. And it's good. I'm taking on a lot of perspectives. I'm learning about different things. There's been some exceptional books that have actually helped me change life as well. You know, I think Hormozy's books are great for business owners as far as your offers, your leads, and more importantly, the sales that's coming soon. I think that Dan Martell's book, Buying Back My Time, really helped me with me and my SLT becoming incredibly good at utilising time.

1:01:34Is that what SLT is? Senior leadership team. Yeah, yeah. So becoming incredibly good at utilising time, right? Helping them to buy back their own diaries. So there's a lot of perspectives that I've taken on that have actually revolutionised the way we do our business based on books. So I'm now fond of them, but I don't read them because I hate reading. Right, but then listening is? Listening is better for me because I think when you're driving, you're in a great place, right? Cam always comes up with his best ideas driving. Cam's very creative. I'm very much the executioner. He's very much the ideator, right?

1:02:03He comes up with something, most of it, some of it's amazing. And those amazing ones I action, and that's kind of how we work. So when he drives, he stares, right? He stares and he thinks of stuff. When I drive, I listen and I act on stuff. And I think that that works really well for us. Okay. So if you could give anyone a top bit of advice on growing a business fast, what would it be? find leverage and add value right before anything else so don't worry about your sales don't worry about closing strategies don't worry about your pitch or your marketing or anything else figure out first and foremost how to solve a problem in an industry right walk through society in a way where you observe what's going on why did i just spend four pounds at starbucks why did i just stare at that billboard why did i just speak to that person at that shop floor right observe why you do the things that you do observe why others do what they do and once you understand society and where the problems are, you suddenly start thinking about ways that you can make more money, right?

1:02:55You might be driving through the M6 toll, tapping your card. Well, what did that cost to build? How long did it take them to return their investment, right? How could you make more money? Where's the upsell? How can you upsell something else? Is there a premium card, right? When you think about all of these things, you suddenly look at life in a different way. And so I spend every minute of every day trying to solve problems in industries. And every so often you land on a really good one. It was just the other day, I was talking with someone and they were literally trying to convince me to come up with a business on the spot quite a weird thing and they were like well make me a business about dogs and i thought about it i thought about it i thought well what about if we had something like ways right what about if there was a place where you could tag locations as a user for dogs that were because this was someone who was asking from like uh be good to the world thing right so they were saying well how do you help stray dogs well imagine somebody was compensated by corporate donors donation donators to every time they found a stray dog they would they would take a picture of it make a note of the dog and the location they would get a tip right then the next person who feeds that dog would get the food funded and they would get their tip and people on this app could freely locate and be funded to support stray dogs with corporate donators which was tax relief for their companies right so in a matter of a couple of minutes i saw the problem found the solution and whilst it's not a billion dollar business it's ready to go it's an idea right and it's more than a lot of people are working with and the only reason i was able to come up with that is because i'm able to see a problem and figure out how to solve it and i'm no different to anyone else because i didn't have any experience no one in my family's entrepreneurial um i just taught myself to see society's problems so the biggest bit of advice would be to start looking at life in a way where you observe where things go wrong and how they can be fixed but also you observe where everybody's spending money there are trillions of dollars being spent every day which means there are a lot of good businesses and there's trillions of upsells that are missed and you can find that and then what mistakes are young entrepreneurs making?

1:04:4725 and under, you're 25. What mistakes are the young kids making? I think they get caught up in it a lot of the time. So they get caught up in sort of being the eye, you know, being the sort of centerpiece, the center cog that turns it around. And they very much let that fuel their ego. And I find that there are a lot of successful guys that end up going on a journey to Ibiza or to Asia and they start living a life that they haven't earned. Now that might be fine because that might be where they want to go in life. I'm judging it based on my experience, which is become a billionaire. That's what I want to do.

1:05:21And I judge people who make these poor decisions for that goal. But it depends on what people want to get out of life. Why do you want to become a billionaire? Because let's be honest, no one gives a f***. They don't. They really don't. And I probably wouldn't give a f*** either because it's no different to being a centime millionaire or a decamillionaire. It's the exact same thing. Your life is relatively similar at all of those stages. But as I say, it's the same reason that I don't need to run a public company. I am free as I am and I could totally live relatively well for the rest of my life just by compound interest at this point.

1:05:52So it's not that there's any sort of material return from it. It's just what I want to do. And I don't know why I want to do what I want to do. And I don't think you need to know why you don't want to do what you want to do. And you know what? You might get there and decide, I don't want to do it anymore. And that's also cool because that's what the freedom buys you the chance to do. But for me, I'm motivated by the stress. I don't know what I'd do without it. Yeah. You know, without the office, without the team, without the problems, I'd feel lost. Well, if you become a billionaire, you'll get those 10x.

1:06:21And I'm looking forward to it. What about, instead of wanting to become a billionaire, what about wanting to create£100 billion worth of value? Well, that's the very way in which you get there, isn't it? Because everything is a reflection of the value that you add to society. Whether you're an influencer, you know, it's how many people can take value, be it entertainment or information. If you're a sports person, it's how many goals can you score or whatever else. It's all, everything is value exchanging, right? And so if you want to become a billionaire, well, you need to exchange a billion plus dollars worth of value to the market.

1:06:52Probably a hundred billion, don't you? Yeah, yeah. Based on your average expenditure and margin at that state. Yeah. So yeah, it's all about value exchange. That is the only way to do anything in life, to add value. You don't get anything out. You add value to society and it compensates you in return. That is the life we live. So why do a lot of people, especially on the left, think that it's not the case. Think that the billionaire should all leave and all these rich people should pay more tax. Well, it's a coping mechanism. It's a case of the more tax that's paid, the easier their life becomes and the less rely on their own competence and get up and go they are.

1:07:27But also it's a case of, for them, if they feel like somebody is slightly less significant than they are, they see that as instead of bringing someone down, they see it as them coming up and they're a little bit closer to where they want it to be, which in their eyes is a success, right? So it's a subconscious way of making himself feel better. As you can see and as you know, this show is called Disruptors. So firstly, what's been your experience being on Disruptors? And secondly, what does the word disruptive mean to you? The first question, it's been a good experience. I like that you ask the questions that warrant the responses you're actually interested in.

1:08:06You're clearly interested in figuring out the interesting stuff. Yeah, the business model behind it. Which caters for more information for you, a better podcast for your audience, and it helps me keep on my toes, which is great. Yeah. And what does it mean to me? Well, a disruptor is someone who gets in the way of the norm, right? They get in the way of what's the perceived norm in society, and whether they disrupt something mentally or physically, they get in the way, and I like that, because the way that things go is not the way they should always go, and you need to change things to improve them.

1:08:37Yeah. And would you say you're disruptive? Totally. Yeah. Totally. In a very different way, in a subtle way. Because I don't have the loud mouth to go with it. I don't have the incredibly strong opinions that make it blatantly obvious what I'm doing. But I think you can move in silence and be as effective as that. And is that that you're just not that way inclined or is that because you're careful because you're in the adult industry? I'm cautious of where I want to be. I'm cautious of where I want to be. And I recognize that if I want to be a billionaire, if I want to be the lead person in a corporate public company long term, I need to understand that perception is everything.

1:09:13And a lot of it is the truth, right? The way I am is the way I am. It's not an act. But I am cautious, of course. I think the best of us have to be. Why? because my opinion sits as described right i've told you everything that i i believe um but i think the way you present yourself is is your first impression and you don't get a second chance of that taking a second to collect yourself say what you mean but in a way that's well received is key especially for someone of age right because a lot of people won't take me seriously for my age right especially in business if they were to hear through an email that i'm 25 they might not be interested right especially with some of the things i'm trying to do nowadays so collecting my thoughts and thinking about how i present myself is important do you read robert green i have seen robert green stuff i believe i've read a book or two but i do sometimes disconnect from the author because i'm listening yeah yeah i just think what were the books robert um well he's written 48 laws of power i read that one and he did one with 50 cent which i really liked um yeah i'm just thinking i guess your strategic advantage might be the sun zoo effect You know, make them think X and you do Y.

1:10:24But, you know, I think your age is a superpower in a way. You know, you said earlier, well, maybe I should have started investing. Well, you've got a lot of years left. Warren Buffett, his net worth. He started at nine, I believe. Yeah, he invested like really young. It's interesting because from the research that I've done on Buffett and more importantly from the book, The Psychology of Money, I figured out a lot about his investment returns and the fact that he was actually a pretty average investor. Nothing crazy. His annual rate of return was mid-table. He's been doing it a lot longer than everyone else.

1:10:59But he's done it so much longer. His compounding is therefore greater. And the big thing with Buffett that a lot of people don't understand with investing is it's how you avoid the desire to buy and sell too much. Because you lose. The freedom to not have to need the money. It comes down to that freedom thing again. Again, it's not the goal for me, but I recognise it's a perk. I make enough to put some into a stock that I've got long-term conviction in and be totally cool if it plummets. It's no problem for me because I decided to put money in that I was willing to part with. Whereas a lot of investors, they look at it as tomorrow's profit, right?

1:11:38Tomorrow's lunch money. Dangerous game. So yeah, Warren Buffett, by the time he was 56, he'd accrued 0.01 % of his net worth. So 99.99 % of his net worth was accrued after age 56. You're 25. Does that make you feel good? Yeah. That's the goal. I just need to figure out how to be as good of an investor as well. Well, Vanguard life strategy, 100 % equity, accumulator. This is not advice, this is knowledge. I reckon if you put all your spare money into that and never took it out, you'd be very rich one day. Never sell it. The transparency is you can put your money into a lot of things and be very wealthy one day.

1:12:23Because a lot of things, especially those that are scarce, are massively going up in value anyway. You could pick cars. You could pick gym equipment. These are things that I invest into, not necessarily as primary investments, but as things that I recognize I can return on. Some cars return crazy values. right some gym equipment returns crazy values and so you can if you're willing to hold on to a lot of scarce resources make a lot of money in anything what you want to do yeah right it doesn't have to be stocks or crypto or anything like that it's just the case of recognizing the scarcity in the first place and also do you think it helps if it's something you're interested in well totally because you become in tune with what's worth investing in based on your actual desire to know the product rather than those that pretend to invest but don't care about stocks in the slightest and then pick the wrong ones because they haven't done the due diligence because they didn't want to.

1:13:15Whereas if you wanted to do the due diligence, you'd naturally become better at it. It's kind of the same as in business, right? Yeah. Liam, thanks for coming on the show. My pleasure, man. Pleasure. Appreciate it.

1:13:54We'll see you next time.

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