The Death of Free Speech (And What Comes Next)

0:00Free speech as we knew it is dead. Or at least that's what it feels like. Everywhere you look, conversations are being shut down, people are being cancelled and ordinary people are getting imprisoned for opinion on social media. So what happened to open debate and the right of having your own opinion? Because right now it feels like something fundamental is under threat. So today we're sitting down with the cancelled and the outspoken to expose the truth on what they believe is really going on what about free speech do we have that in the uk no we don't have free speech in the uk should we not of course i look listen i say what i want when i want come and arrest me i dare you to yeah you know it's like it's one you know it's it's like you know it's not going to happen it's you know and people that allow if someone came and knocked on my door and said oh you said something well I'd shut I'd shut the door in their face would you have the police yeah I'd shut yeah yeah shut the door in their face and I'd be like that fuck off I'd just be like open the door yeah something you said on wallop it's called social media it's not you'd honestly tell them to fuck off it's my social life this is not it's not work media it's not called work it's called social media what I do in my social life as long as I'm not harming people, yeah, and I'm not going around stabbing people and I'm not going around.

1:30Whatever I say, and I don't say things to offend. I don't say things to, I don't manipulate anything. I don't say things out of malice. You know, I say them because if you want to come around my house, I would, I'd slam the door in their face, bang, straight away. They've got no, they can't do anything about it. It's when you entertain it. It's when you go, oh, well, what did I say? Don't even ask them. What do you want? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Wallop. Slam the door in their face. But people are going to prison for social media posts. Yeah, well, it's because they've decided, because they've literally, oh, sign here, sign here.

2:12It's like when they go, oh, can you just sign this document? When a policeman goes, blah, blah, blah, can you just, once you sign away, you're done. You're done. So you refuse to sign? Yeah, refuse to talk, refuse to communicate. refuse to sign. So refuse to even, even start a conversation. It's like, wallop, go and do a job elsewhere. Get out of here. See you later. Okay. And I respect it. I do. That's the thing about the police force as well. Why I want to become mayor of London is because I want to give them the top cover. I want to train them correctly. And I want to make sure that they're going out doing what they're supposed to do.

2:48And this is why, this is why I say the police force have been compromised politically. They're being used as a political tool. Fancy the government sending a policeman around your house because you've said something on social media. Five of them to Lawrence Fox. I know. Send five. Fancy that. It's like... Because he says something about Sadiq Khan. This is what I pay my taxes for. Yeah. This is what I pay my taxes for. It's like to keep me safe and not for you to come around my house and tell me that that I've posted something online. I paid my taxes so you can go out and keep us safe and secure and keep us away from people being stabbed in the streets or our phones being nicked, sexual abuses from our women and children being raped and abused.

3:36This is what I pay my taxes for, for you to do that. I can't imagine. Can you imagine being a police officer and someone going, you're going to have to go around Rob's house. He said something on social media. And I'm not doing it. Or you're going to lose your job if you don't. well, you know, these are proper police officers that have been in there for a while, properly trained, you know, that have got something about them, not the DEI sort of muppets that have been put in there that go, oh, yes, oh, yeah, yeah, I got offended and come around with pink hair. You know, it's, you know, proper police officers.

4:14Can you imagine? Imagine being told that and being threatened with your job going, and I know that happens because I've got very good friends within these organisations. And they're like, you can see it on the streets. You can see the division on the streets. The division, the friction and division within the Metropolitan Police is so fragile right now that the proper police officers are leaving. Lucy, how did you end up in prison for a social media post? Well, I'm not 100 % sure, to be honest. I think it was very politically motivated. When I first saw all the posts on Twitter and stuff, you know, after some, it was a whole week later, actually.

4:59Was this after Southport? Yeah, so I actually made that tweet on the day of Southport within hours of it being announced that, you know, that atrocity had happened. And I'd obviously deleted it the same evening. Once I'd calmed down and thought, you know, you can't write that, take that down. Right. It was a whole week before it kind of reared its ugly head again, if that makes sense. Because I didn't think anything more of it. I deleted it, taken it down, carried on with normal life, carried on on Twitter as normal. Yeah. And then I don't really know what made it pop up again. So what, it re-earthed itself, didn't it?

5:33Yeah, so like a week later. So I think it was like the Monday after. I'd seen this post saying, yes, but you're a racist, aren't you, Lucy? and you're a Tory councillor's wife and all of this. And I was like, oh, gosh, you know, like, where's this come from? Right. So the week after you posted it, nothing had happened. The police hadn't called, come over. Nothing at all. I'd deleted the tweet. I hadn't even looked at any of the comments on it, you know, before I deleted it. I hadn't engaged. Did it blow up a bit? Was it a lot of views? I think so, apparently. You know, apparently it had 300 and something views.

6:05But as you know, on Twitter, it doesn't have to actually be a view for you to scroll past it, does it? just so I had a fairly big following. I had about 10 ,000 followers. So you had 10 ,000 followers and it had how many views? I think 300 and something thousand. Right, okay, fine. I'm sure they said. My point was they accused me of inciting violence, but I didn't. There had been no violence. There had been no riots at the point that I made that tweet. I took the tweet down within hours of making it because I knew it wasn't the right thing to say. What did they say? Inciting racial hatred. Exciting.

6:40I think the actual charge was publishing written material that was likely to, not even did, likely to stir up racial hatred. They'd already made it quite clear before they knew any of my circumstances, before they'd looked at any mitigating circumstances, before they'd looked into any character references, all those kind of things that judges ordinarily take into consideration when they're handing out sentences. Take it you've never been arrested before? No, never. First time in the cells. Wow. So they held you. Yeah. So they held me going back a bit. They originally arrested me on a Tuesday, interviewed me.

7:19I explained myself. They let me go, bailed me with conditions not to post on social media. I didn't. I didn't break those bail conditions. And in the, you know, even in the police documents, it says, you know, there's not enough evidence to charge her here. and somehow that changed from the Tuesday to the Friday so I you know left the police station that Tuesday evening with bail conditions to I think the date in November to go back to check back in and you know that the police officer said to me on the desk he said oh you know they'll put that back the courts are so backed up don't expect to be actually you know called to answer bail in November so you know I'd gone home thinking you know I'd spent my few hours in the cells I'd got my telling off you know wasn't proud of myself that was the end of it yeah oh no so that was the tuesday evening you know friday morning i'd literally just got out of bed had a shower i was putting the bins out friday's bin day in our street and then as i was putting the bins out this police car comes down the street and i thought i just know i just know they're coming for me it was this is like before eight in the morning so that obviously they were you know you're arrested for da da da da da.

8:33How many police came? Two that time. Okay. And they arrested you for what? I don't actually know what they were arresting me for the second time. But they took you away straight away? The same charge, I think, a public audit charge. So, yes, they took me there and then. Yeah. And then, yeah, I was never released. Do you regret pleading guilty? Yes, definitely. I got 31 months in total. 31 months for a tweet? 31 months for a tweet. Has that ever happened before? No. people that went out in the in the riots or you know there was a guy sentenced in northampton just before me he'd gone out in the riots he'd gone out with crowbars he and balaclavas he'd met load of people he was involved he did hurt people he was on first of all he's on a gbh charge then they dropped it to abh then they dropped it to a fray he was already on a suspended sentence i think he got 20 months 19 20 months he got less than he got less than me and he'd gone out in the riots he'd physically hurt people and he had previa and he still got less than me so how did you feel when you got 31 months i couldn't believe it and what he essentially did was he added on my credit so i got my 25 credit for going guilty but all he did was added it on before he took it off right so he could have started from two years which was the minimum the sentencing guidelines start from and then he could have took 25 % off and then I'd have obviously served 40 % of that so it would have been a lot less but what he did do is he said well you know had you have gone to trial and been found guilty you'd have got four point something years well hang on a minute isn't that the whole point of going guilty so that you don't go to trial and you get your credit so the judge actually gave me four years something but then he took the 25 % off four years for a tweet something like that it was for four years this i can't i'd have to look it up so the but the 25 then took it down to 31 months so and you served in total how long 12.4 months okay because i served 40 of the of the sentence right yeah are you allowed to post on social media i'm allowed to post on social media which is a bit backwards really isn't it considering that that was what my offense was you know yeah i can post on social media but i'm not allowed to delete anything on my phone and they are allowed to check my phone i'm allowed i have to let them check my phone which is fine there's nothing on there you know that they're they're gonna find how do they do that will they come over and check it or no they've just i just when i go into probation i just open my phone and they might scroll through my facebook or what have you to make sure you know how often do you have to check in at the minute every two weeks it was every week now it's they've done it every two You have to go and check in every week for a deleted post.

11:21And, yeah, I'm on licence. That's until March 2027. I have to do this. Is there anything you can't say? No, as in as long as it's legal. Right. Yeah. And I've had this discussion with them. I'm like, I'm not prepared to shut up, if that makes sense. You know, as long as whatever I'm saying is legal and not derogatory, etc. I can say what I like because, believe it or not, we do have free speech in this country. Oh, you think we do? Well, we don't, no. But we're supposed to, aren't we? And you can't shut people down just because you don't like their opinion. It's disgusting. How have we got to this stage in the UK where if somebody doesn't like what you're saying, if they don't agree with what you're saying, they want you cancelled.

12:03And not only do they want you cancelled, they go after your family. They go after your children. They go after your businesses. They stop at nothing. And who's they? The people that I would call them extreme lefties. I wouldn't even say lefties because like my family are all lefties, you know, they're all northern and my mum's a lefty. But she certainly wouldn't dream of, you know, seeking out something somebody had said that she didn't like and finding out where they worked and going to their employer and make, you know, this started quite a while ago. This did, you know, this cancel culture where it happened to a friend of mine on Twitter as well.

12:36he's got his own business and they sort out they he's got an anonymous account but you know they managed to find out who he was and where he worked and then they were you know making malicious claims about his business and all because his politics don't align with yours give your head a wobble wow really are you really that nasty that you would you know people jeering at me that you She deserved to go to prison. And my family deserved that, did they? My daughter deserved to be without her mummy for over a year and struggle the way she struggled. You people are abhorrent. That's all I've got to say to you.

13:17There's just this culture now, especially with social media, of people going after people. And that's how I feel, what happened to me. The people that didn't like me. Unless they didn't like me, they didn't know me. I know they just think they don't like you don't know you know they didn't like a couple of your tweets or yeah I don't know I mean I'm sure you've had it yourself you know you're successful you've done well for yourself have you ever had anybody attack you or yes slander you that of course but are they in a position where they've done better than you in life no there you go there's your question no haters are ever doing better than you because successful people are too busy to hate on others and i and i see this and they know what it takes and i've noticed this quite a lot just recently you know like just from observing after i've come out and i just think why are you attacking that guy why because he's got a better car than you more money in his bank that didn't and the way i see it it's like good luck to you you might be envious you might think oh i'd love that house oh i'd love that car but there's a big difference between envy and jealousy isn't there and wow I just we've just become such a hateful culture right now you know like why why not wish people well and it's okay to say I don't agree with that person and move on you don't have to go to such extents to you know try and ruin people or slander people not just me but just people in general because you don't like what they say yeah I'd say tough shit and I don't like lots of things that lots of people say, but I scroll on, you know.

14:55Yeah, I've spoken out in defence of people who've been cancelled. And one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you, it's not even relevant if I agree or disagree. If people are being cancelled and imprisoned for their opinion and it isn't breaking the law, if you don't stand up for that, regardless of their opinion, then you will be next. I think this is what happened with me. I think everybody shit themselves and went, oh, God. That could be me. Yeah, that could be everyone. And everybody kind of recoiled, didn't they, on social media and stuff and then thought, you know what, they're going to come knocking on my door.

15:34But then they win, don't they, if that happens. And it's such a fine line, isn't it? Because I am sorry for what I tweeted. I shouldn't have tweeted it. But I also do not agree that I was treated fairly, you know, and I do not and I never will believe that we should be sending anybody to jail for a social media post. Maybe if it was like a campaign of hate that had gone on for a long time, different circumstances, that's why we have the Malicious Communications Act, isn't it? So I've got a question for you. Yeah. If Keir Starmer was sitting here, what would you say? What would I say? I'm not sure I'd want to sit next to him.

16:15But if he was? I took contempt for him. If he was, I would just ask him what he thinks he's actually achieving right now. I mean, let's not, he is, he must be the world's most, you know, the country's most hated. He certainly is in my time. Even people that voted for him that I know are like, what have I done? The return of the sausages, the hostages. I think that Priest-Darmer is absolutely attempting to control the mainstream media. Like, you look at the fact that he wants the off-communists, as I call them, this is the state regulator of the media in the United Kingdom, effectively the body that actually ended up being the final straw that got me cancelled from GB News.

16:57They want to stop Nigel Farage being able to present on GB News, for example, so there's a whole load of control of the mainstream media going on. But actually what they're most concerned about and what they most want to shut down is this revolution, right? So it's disruptors, it's outspoken, but it's also, Rob, and probably they view these guys as more of a threat. It's the citizen journalists that are on the ground covering the hotel migrant protests, covering what's going on with migrants up and down the country, actually going into the HMOs where they live, going into the hospitals where they're being treated.

17:37And they want to delegitimize that type of journalism, which is, I believe, revealing the truth. And so there's a whole load of things that are being done to try and shut down free speech in this country. There's like libel tourism, abuse of the libel laws, which makes it very impossible for someone to risk speaking out about a rich person, for example. there's um huge pressure being put on the social media giants to shut down free speech and when people challenged Starmer over this he literally said well if you don't agree with my censorship then I believe that you're a supporter of pedophiles and and you're a supporter of Jimmy Savile he literally said that I mean that's not an exaggeration and it's nuts because what people are doing is they are hiding behind trying to protect children as a way to actually shut down genuine debate.

18:36I mean, we've seen it with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle too, for example, because they fundamentally want to shut down their critics, right, on social media, people like me, people like Piers Morgan, they don't want us speaking out. So they've pretended, oh, no, but the reason we want this censorship is because we have to protect our children. And obviously, there are tragic cases about what's happened with children being bullied via social media. But the solution is not censorship for all. Okay, the solution is not the Online Safety Act, because what it's actually doing, Rob, is encouraging censorship of difficult conversations important conversations conversations like the ones we're having now aimed at adult because there's a chance a child might view it well I'm sorry that's not good enough for me I'm a free speech absolutist we've got to have these conversations and by the way kids are going to find this stuff whether they like it or not and all this so-called censorship is doing is driving them into the grips of the dark web which is far far worse than anything that you might find on YouTube.

19:51So the solution for all of these losers, these people who are losing the argument, whether it's Keir Starmer, whether it's Harry and Meghan, is let's censor things. Let's take away free speech and let's cover up why we're really doing this by saying, oh, we want to protect the kids. Well, we all want to protect the kids. We all do. But as you know, kids have always been bullied in a whole load of horrendous ways. Technology is now the latest way being used, but it's not an excuse to take away free speech. And what about like these, what, 12 ,000 arrests, is it? And, you know, people even going to prison for social media posts?

20:34I mean, I guess you must think that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, it's insane. I mean, we have more arrests for social media posts than despot countries like Russia. I mean, it's absolutely not. So we're becoming a communist country then? Well, I think we are. And I think we're becoming an authoritarian country. And I don't really think that any of the arguments that people in power make about, oh, no, you know, we don't get involved in the justice system stand anymore. Because trust me, I mean, I followed very closely the case of Lucy Connolly, who was the grieving mother who was jailed for 31 months because of one post on X on the night of the Southport massacre, which she deleted, by the way.

21:21She went out for a walk with the dog. She deleted the post within hours. She was locked up for 31 months. There were loads of extenuating circumstances in her case. the fact that she had lost her son because of NHS neglect, her baby son, and so she was traumatized by seeing what Axel Rudakabana did in that Taylor Swift dance class. But even if that wasn't the case, she posted something which some people were offended by. Yeah, I don't think it was violent in any way. It was maybe unpleasant. But she was not only locked up for 31 months, the whole justice system was designed, Rob, to come down on her like a ton of bricks to provide a warning to the rest of us, us mere mortals.

22:06Be careful what you post because you could end up being like Lucy Connolly. So she was in remand. She was not a threat to anyone. I mean, we've literally seen Jihad Al Shami, right, who is our most recent Islamist terrorist who attempted to blow himself up at a synagogue in Manchester, but failed. However, did still see two people killed as a result of his terror attack. And he was out on bail for rape. Clearly a dangerous man, right? An Islamist extremist on bail for rape. Lucy Connolly behind bars locked up over a long period of time for a post on X. It was insanity. We all know it was insanity.

22:54But I think all of this is designed to try and send a chilling warning to everyone. Just don't say what you're thinking. And that's a dangerous society. Don't you think? If you feel something, if you see something happening around you, but you think, oh, I can't say this. I can't say this. I've got kids. I might get locked up. And I see that going on. I see so many people who are too scared or who say to me, oh, Dan, you're brave. And it's like, what a crazy thing to say. I'm a journalist. You know, I'm a long-term journalist who worked in the mainstream and just believes in revealing the truth.

23:32There should be nothing brave about that. But we're living in a country where journalists have actually been targeted. I think what keeps happening, Rob, is the police take on these cases, think they're doing the right thing and then are immediately freaked out by the backlash but the problem is when it's not Katie Hopkins when it's not Alison Pearson when it's not Graham Linehan the problem is when it's you and you're arrested and no one is speaking up for you yeah because Lucy Connolly became the public face of what was I believe the most revolting attempt to stun British patriots into silence.

24:12And probably the case that was most upsetting to me was that of Peter Lynch, who was the father of, I think, four good family man who had been a protester, and he'd been an anti-establishment protester in the United Kingdom for many years. So he'd protested against Brexit, he'd protested against COVID, he believed in the deep state, he believed that the government were not looking out for its people. Loads of things that I believe, and he was on the streets and he had his signs and this is what he did. This was his way to express his democratic right to free expression. And after the Southport massacre, he found himself and obviously he chose to go there at one of the protests outside a migrant hotel.

24:53But I've seen the police body cam footage, Rob, and I've read the court transcripts. And there is absolutely no suggestion that Peter Lynch was at all violent towards any police officer. He called them scum. he said that they were protecting child killers. Now, I struggled to see how him saying that was anything other than factual. Again, some people might find it offensive, some people might find it inappropriate, but it was his opinion based on what he'd seen in regards to the Southport massacre. Anyway, he was locked up, pleaded guilty, which was a crazy decision, but of course, everyone was virtually forced into pleading guilty because they were remanded in custody and told, if you don't plead guilty you're going to get an even longer jail sentence but his jail sentence was insane I believe it was over two years and he is said to have killed himself in prison the details of this case are so disturbing to me because we're not being told the whole truth about what happened most recently we've learned via one of the hearings of his inquest that the day before his death, he had been charged with a crime behind bars in prison.

26:08But we're not able to know what that was. And remember, Martin Brunt, who is the crime correspondent for Sly News, had reported that so-called right-wing protesters like Peter Lynch were going to be targeted by Muslim gangs in prison. And so Peter Lynch lost his life for expressing his democratic right to protest against the regime. And this happened to a whole load of people. Most of their cases are forgotten and their lives have been destroyed. And it just is meant to provide a warning shot to all of us. Were you arrested recently? was it just a caution where you were arrested? What really happened?

26:57I was sent a letter in early, I'm going to say May, April, May, at the start of my last tour is to frame the reference on it. And it said, reason to believe, speech that is against, I want to say section 230, but I don't know the correct one, something to do with offensive speech on my Katie's arms, which is my pub night that I run every Friday, glass of wine, put the world to right. lots of people join in have a laugh at me and so I had two choices on the letter one which I can send to you actually that'd be helpful one is to be arrested and two is to come in interview under caution and I've been through this before in the past as you can imagine the choices are come in and talk to us and it being recorded as a serious matter that could that will be the file they put together to send to the CPS to see if they can charge you or we'll come and arrest you.

27:54So I pushed back because I was trying to say, I'm not, I'm not going to do it. But equally, I had a tour and knowing how police work, especially with me, that would be the start of a tour, a thousand seater audience, and I'd be arrested on stage. It wouldn't be done politely or discreetly or helpfully to me. So I worked with Free Speech Union. We agreed I would come in at the end of the tour so I knew that I would be able to I wouldn't fail any of my audience which I refused to do and um I tried to I rewrote the statement the free speech union helped me draft a correct statement I drafted what I wanted to say which was a couple of sentences and much more rough punchy and it was agreed that if I was going to have free speech help me which I'm very grateful to Toby and the team that we would have a compromise.

28:44So we got it down to one page. And I went in there of my own free will at an agreed time. I was taken to a room by two bints from Devon and Cornwall police and Dorset. So the whole of the south of England. CID, which I said the other day was chief inspectors division. It's not. It's criminal investigation division. Whatever. They said, I just see it. That's all I see is the clown car into a room. And then they begin the recording. And then you have to, I was interviewed for an hour and a half in criminal proceedings. What did they ask you? Well, because I called myself a spaz. So what did the, but what was the accusation?

29:29The accusation is that I caused offence, perceived offence to others. by self-depreciating by calling myself a spaz on my Katie's Arms which is a live Instagram feed that you would have to I'm not standing like outside here on the street corner with a megaphone going I'm a spaz maybe you're a spaz right which is effectively the stuff I was doing I was being Joey Deacon this won't be a reference you know but no I am actually disabled you just did it again though yeah I have a disabled card yeah and on the train this morning So I buy a ticket with a disabled card because you get a really good discount.

30:08Right. And then when they come down, they say tickets, all tickets passes, please. I try and act as spaz as I can to challenge them, to challenge them to see if they'll ask for my disabled card. So when they come up and go tickets passes, I go with my phone and then to challenge that, go on, ask me for my disabled card. And typically they don't. One has. I do this to get it. So it's my gag with myself. You know I'm missing half my head. I am a spaz. I tell people be more weird. Take up more space. Be as odd as you can be because so many more people will find a place to fit in under your wings if you're weird, regardless.

30:49So an hour and a half in Devon and Cornwall Police, in a cell thing, being recorded. And then she had questions after questions. Do you realise how offensive the word spaz is? Do you realise by calling yourself a spaz, you're causing offence to other people. You had a glass of wine in your hand. Do you drink often? Would you consider yourself a drunk? Are you a drunk and a spaz? At which point I just lost it. There was loads of times in that. And what I'm trying to get, and I promise you, if I get it, I will give it to you before I release it, whether you want to use it or not. And you can have first refusal.

31:25But we are trying to get the recording of me in that interview under caution, because with a good edit on that there I mean there is a whole stand-up routine in that I mean some of the questions you tell is it acceptable to take the piss out of yourself you know just for an hour and a half truly unbelievable and then at the end she stopped the recording and then warned me not to talk about any of this because it might cause me more problems than I already had so do you think they're going to come for you again so no so then because the process is the punishment so you send the early letter in may then we agree okay katie will come in in august i go in in august and then uh august september october november we just heard i don't know was it a week ago so then end of november oh there's no charges so you have to wait three months to see if the cps the crown prosecution service will decide is it chargeable i mean how much money must that have cost must have cost tens of thousands of pounds tens and tens of thousands of pounds it was done ahead of the unite the kingdom rally in the uk because they knew i would be a speaker i think it's always a warning shot across your bow to say, wind your neck in, trying to intimidate you out of being the speaker, because maybe you'll be arrested on the day.

32:53And then what you have to remember for people that think, well, it's Katie, she's used to it, it's Katie, she's used to it. You know, in my private life, I have family and children and things. So you are then prepared. When the door knocks, you're prepared. So I immediately remove myself. The children know not to answer the door. If they do answer the door, I'm not there. You are, the knock on the door becomes something. It's not a nothing. I'm not afraid of being arrested, but it's not a nothing when it's in your home. So it has impacts for sure. But I'm out using this word spaz as much as I can because I feel like it's a reclaiming thing, right?

33:33We have to reclaim language, the right to self-deprecate. I would never stand in the street and go, spaz, someone, unless it was a mate. So was this targeted? You got targeted? Yeah, 100%. I think before Unite the Kingdom rally, there would have been some sort of missive going out, you know, get the heads down. Like in military terms, you fire shots where you vaguely think the enemy is to get their heads down in order that you can move forward. So that would be what happened there. Just a scattergun, get the heads down, hope she pulls out, you know, take away the noise from Unite the Kingdom. That would be my interpretation.