The Watch Guru: Making Millions Collecting Watches & The Truth on Rolex - Tom Bolt

26:43It's like, you know, if you want to be... So that's a good start. So that's a what? A Breitling? That's a Breitling early chronomat. Okay. And then what else? I would say this kind of stuff. I would say that, you know, the early Rolex bubblebacks. I mean, that's why... These three watches here, this Oyster, this bubbleback, and this Prince is why Rolex are what they are today, right? So they did... These two here in the 1920s, first waterproof watch, although it wasn't really. But what, they owned that? The Oyster. They kind of, you know, yeah. Let's give them that accolade, okay? The first wrist chronometer, the first chronometer-rated movement, small enough to be more on the wrist, was that.

27:30Kudos, they did that. And the first automatic watch here. Well, they didn't really invent the automatic watch either because they kind of nicked that off John Harwood and then did a deal with him later, apparently. Right. You know, so, but... We know Rolex has been the first automatic watch, so maybe I should, maybe I might get sued at the end for that. Not nicked it, took inspiration from John Harwood. What's interesting about this watch here, I'll come back to your question, what's interesting about this watch here, right? The bubble back. Because, yeah, is this the first automatic watch that had a rotor that swung around that winds the watch, right?

28:02That's still used today by all the brands. Well, because they patented it, nobody else could do this. Wow. And so this watch here, which is a particularly special one, is the 2526, which is the first... Patek Philippe. The first Patek Philippe automatic watch ever in history. And the movement is a work of art. And how much is the Patek? Okay, so a 2526 today, a standard yellow gold 2526, will cost you from 35 grand up to a few hundred grand. This is a pink dial version. It's very rare. It's a pink gold watch. So this is more like kind of 150 or so grand. Okay. and then these three Rolexes you've got in your hand because I think they're affordable money, aren't they?

28:45We're back to the... Exactly. So this is, I would say, a top 1 % bubble back condition, rarity. It's got a thunderbolt bezel. It's an incredible condition. Still like 20 grand. Yeah. The Oyster. Now, here's one for you. 1920s Rolex Oyster, the first waterproof watch in history. Yeah. 100 years old. What do you reckon that is? 25 grand. Okay. let's go with three and a half grand maybe four on that no yes the first really a hundred years old that watch the first wrist chronometer ever made in history the first wrist chronometer ever made in history right which is this striped prince okay yeah although let me say again the first wrist chronometer ever made in history which is the Rolex Prince this is the top version of it and it's called a striped prince where it has striped gold in the top it's like the kind of the GTO version of your Ferrari, if you like.

29:41And yet that is like 15 grand, 14 grand. And the standard prints in steel, I've got a beautiful silver one now, original dial, everything, six grand. A silver one or a steel one? Silver. They don't make many watches in silver anymore, do they? No, they didn't, but they did in the early days. It was before steel or stay bright was used. And you could probably wear them in London and no one would know any different. That oyster, people are going to think that's... But also, see, exactly. And it comes down to that thing, Rob, right? It's like, look, who are you wearing your watch for? Are you wearing it so that people know, listen, I'm the daddy, I got the 5711 fucking yawn.

30:20You've even got the lingo there. I'm the daddy in it. Or are you wearing the watch for you because you know? Yeah. But surely, though, this is like the art question. Are you paying for you or are you paying for someone looking at the art? I don't this is the first time I'm going to challenge you since I've met you we've gone great but I'm going to challenge you so far yeah exactly I don't believe anyone wears a watch just for them and not for anyone else including you okay because like I'll give you an example you know some people who say oh well life's not about having possessions it's about having no possessions they're still bragging about the fact that they don't want any possessions well you know it's a similar okay do you see what I mean So you still want to be noticed, but for knowing your watches.

31:07There was an article once written about me called The King of Bling. And I kind of counteracted this article. It was quite a good article about the fact that we've gone through various stages throughout watch collecting. And we've had the sort of the stealth mode, which is when everyone wore stainless steel. and the trick was if you were really in the horological cognoscente, if you really were part of the top 1 % collectors and you knew your stuff, the aim was to wear something that was actually worth a fucking fortune but that looked like nothing on your wrist. And yet at the dinner table, everybody used to wear them but they couldn't wait for someone to ask them about their watch and what it was worth.

31:49This is my point. Yeah, yeah, sure. But I agree with you on the whole... It's the Christian Bale film with the business card. Exactly. It's that, isn't it? It's American Psycho. Yes. But... but whilst I agree with your sentiment... Yeah. You just think that's a little bit more elevated class. That ain't me. That's not you. No, no, what I'm saying is that for me, I genuinely wear them for me. Look, I've got nice cars, right? Yeah. Okay, I've got all kinds of sexy cars. However, I drive from home, I turn off the motorway, I drive straight into my underground car park and that's it. I mean If I drive my car Down the street Okay And there's a dude Waiting At the bus stop To take the night bus home I'm going to purposely Drive past him Before him Because I don't want The negative feelings Of like feeling like A cunt getting out Of this thing That you know Is worth more Than probably he'll ever earn Or make him feel bad For the comparison thing Etc I just want to feel good myself And I genuinely Drive this shit Because of the way It makes me feel And not because The way I'm perceived Okay I mean look Most people who see me Getting out of my car Honestly the amount of times People go oh no big issues today mate when you come to wash the car no seriously do you know what I mean really they say that because look at the way I'm fucking dressed I look like a tramp I know that that's alright do you know when I used to buy watches no listen right when I used to buy I am listening so you look like fucking Don Johnson compared to me so I mean like you know so so so I mean I've even got a slight sort of beard paranoia like you know yours is quite neat and I'm thinking I look like a fucking you had some chicken wings in it earlier I did I look like a I bet you weren't going to tell me I look like a fucking homeless person.

33:24Anyway, so I used to get called in to see certain shops, right, that were taking in watches and parties, or even sometimes auction houses and stuff, right? And there was this fucking joke that went around on text, right? Look, if Tom Bolt comes, right? This is like back in the sort of late 90s, whatever. They'd say, just say to him, no, no, no, no big issues today, please. That was their sort of running joke. All right, I'm going to stay on this lane. Okay. Because I have some cars as well. and one of them that people love the most is I have an Aventador and they love that the most. And it gives so much pleasure to a lot of people, especially when you drive past a school and all the kids are like, and all that.

34:04And I don't actually get that much negativity in my cars. Mostly it just, I remember when I saw like Ferraris when I was younger in my town, I was like, yeah, that's going to be me one day. Is there not that element as well? Can it not be inspiring? You know? Oh, no, hang on. Wait, wait. Okay, yeah. By the way, I'm not saying that I've never been the guy that would drive slow down the road and give my feather a quick few rips, do you know what I mean? Of course. Do you know what I mean? I was young. Do you know what I mean? But I think also as my recovery goes on, I work a kind of 12-step program in like AA and NA and stuff, which kind of teaches you to sort of look at yourself a lot.

34:47Yeah. And I think that now I have a lot of empathy for my fellow kind of mankind, if you like, human beings. And so I'm constantly thinking, how would I feel? It's like business for me. I don't sit down and think, right, what can I get away with selling this watch for? I think, why would I not buy this watch if I was the guy sitting across the table? Do you know what I mean? Because that's how good business is, right? You think about, well, why wouldn't I buy this watch if the tables were turned here and I was pitching myself? So with the whole car thing, whilst I drive it and stuff, okay, and I try to sort of like be as ambiguous as I can be in it, I mentioned earlier to you that I have this charity called Steps Recovery that integrates addicts from, I say I have this, I started this charity called Steps Recovery that integrates addicts from prison and society and gives them free rehab.

35:42and I go there sometimes and I take all the kind of clients out for a kind of meeting or we go out for a meal or something and they fucking love going in the back of the kind of roller or the whatever it is do you know what I mean? Sure but that's different to Is that a 599 I saw you've got? Is it a 599? Yeah I've got a 599 GTO and I knew it wasn't just the 599 and my baby an Aperto which is the sort of convertible of the kind of GTO Right, so you've got two of them. Yeah. You like that Model D, the 599? I thought you were going to start ripping me now. No, am I? No, I'm not a judgy guy. I like them.

36:22I like the 599 because I think it's aesthetically very pleasing. It's beautiful. You like GTOs then, obviously, or crews, GT cars. No, I'm just a spoiled cunt. Oh, okay. And so basically, I always wanted, I saw once that Chris Evans had this incredible Ferrari. And I'd never really been into Fezzers. And I saw this car and I thought, wow, what is that? I did some research. It's called a 599 GTO. And I just, from that day, thought, right, one day, if ever I can afford that, I'm going to buy it. And on my 25-year cleaning anniversary sober present to myself, I bought it off Chris. Oh, wow. Because I said to myself, you know what?

37:05I'm just not going to have it. Like I said, I'm a sport cunt. I'm not going to have a normal 599. I'm going to wait until I can buy the one I want. And I kind of... But that's not sport. I got lucky and I did. Well, it is a bit. It is a bit. I think you're being a bit humble. I don't. I think it's like, I'm not going to have one unless I can have the one I want. It's a little bit like that. Yeah, but then you work hard for it and then you celebrate 25 years being clean, buying it. Okay, all right. But do you think that, okay, but do you genuinely think that, I'm not trying to turn the tables here and do.

37:35You can if you want to, if you want your show. But that's your show. Do you think that success is a meritocracy? Do you think that if you work hard, you get what you want? Well, you know, you said there's Rolex and there's Rolex. I think with success, there's first world and developing world. So if you're in a developing, what they used to call third world country, well, I can't even say that anymore, and you don't have internet, and you don't have running water, whatever, success is not a meritocracy. You were bored with bad luck, and you were born in a place where you're never going to be successful.

38:11If you're born in the UK with good internet and AI, and all the information we've got now on podcasts and everything, success is a meritocracy. And if you want to be successful and you're not, it's kind of your fault. But that's relative. That's my belief. But that's relative, though. in that format that you've just put, I think is relative. So that guy is probably not going to be able to get the 599G to go in his country. Which guy? In Africa. In Africa. But perhaps he could be the guy that does whatever is the equivalent of that in that country. What I'm saying is that... Could do, yeah. Okay, so I guess that's what I'm saying.

38:44So success is relative to the confines which we're in, like the fucking matrix we've all been given to be the worker being. And also based on your definition of success and what you actually want. Sure, but what I'm saying is that it is my belief that it is very rare that hard work and success correlate percentage-wise. Of course, more people that work hard are going to be successful, but just because you work hard doesn't mean you're going to be successful. Well, no, because people are down minds working hard, there's nurses working hard. Sure, but even, no, but hang on, but even artists, just like Rembrandt and stuff, you know, they were never that successful in their lifetime.

39:30It wasn't until they died that they were successful. So success is relative. And that's why I have such a fucking problem with anybody that treats someone differently because they are moneyed or because they have affluence. Because to me, people are fucking people, man. And also in my opinion... I don't think I deserve what I have, by the way. I just think that circumstances, et cetera, I work hard. I work hard because I'm a fucking addict. and my addictive nature went into, you know, sort of like staving off the feelings by doing deals and watches. Do you know what I mean? So it's all circumstance, man.

40:03Yeah. Okay. So I don't agree you don't deserve your success. Here's why. I believe that over a long enough period of time, you get what you deserve because we all get good breaks and bad breaks over a long enough period of time. I'll come to that part in a moment. Because if you don't believe in afterlife, I have to strongly disagree with you. If you believe in afterlife and perhaps success that we're owed in one life is paid forward in another, then I can go with that. Robin Sharma's my friend and he said, you know, karma goes across lifetimes. In which case I agree. I'm probably not going that deep.

40:34Okay. But I think it's somewhat false humility to say I don't really deserve any of my success because you know more about watches than pretty much anyone I know. And you've figured out how to... But that's not because... But mate, hang on. But that's not because I've studied. That's not because... No, that's because you've lived and sold and traded and counseled and breathed. Okay, but hang on. Okay, all right, but hang on, hang on. All right. Okay, I get that. But at the same time, right, I've never been grown up, right? I'm in this situation, right, whereby my addictive nature that I put to the negative with drugs and all that shit when I was a kid has had to go somewhere and it's gone into an obsession for wristwatchers.

41:18Yeah, and you're driving that shit. But I'm not. It's a force, man. I don't believe it's a force. Yeah, but you put it into drugs and then you got it out of drugs and then you put it into that. Well, I put it into drugs. Well, we're going down a rabbit hole here. But I put it into drugs because I felt tormented and unhappy as a kid. And so that's the thing that basically made me feel better. All I seem to do and have done in my life is… So do you still feel tormented? Of course. Yeah, yeah. Which is why I go to meetings. Most entrepreneurial people, most successful people, they are carrying all the baggage from their childhood.

41:48But don't you think that studying for six years, to be a doctor, and then elevating and doing that whole kind of routine, that hard work to get somewhere, that's real deserved success. I've just fucking winged it, man. And I love watches and I'm quite good at it. But that's not because I've studied and put my head down. It's just been a force, a wave that I've been riding. I just think it's a different definition. I bet you if you added the amount of hours that you have passionately learned about watches. I'm like 16, 17 hours a day. There you go. Sure. All right, so you haven't studied in books.

42:21You've learned on the field. But never do I say, be disciplined, Tommy. You've got to get on that WhatsApp. It's just like fucking, it's a drive. Because you're taking your own life force. It's a drive, exactly. But that life force has been dictated to by things that happened to me in the past, I believe. Yeah. So therefore, do we ever really deserve this shit is all I'm saying. Listen, by the way, you want to paint me as the daddy, I'll fucking be the daddy. Right. But you know what I mean? But all I'm saying is, of watches, do you know what I mean? That was almost metrosexual, the way you did that.

42:55No, can we do that again then, please? Well, I mean, yeah, I suppose I am trying to give you your credit. And I suppose, I'm not saying it's false humility. You're driven, right? Yes. Okay, but that's not something you have to try and be. You are fucking driven, right? to do what you do, to get the people you do, to do your business, to do your houses, to do your finances. You're driven, man. Some people don't have that fucking drive. So we're lucky. No, but okay, not for what I do and not for what you do, but something that they do that's their passion. I believe we all have a calling, a passion, a high cluster of values, a purpose and a place in society.

43:42and look most of the people who listen to my show they're entrepreneurs or they're entrepreneurial and I get it if you're in the public sector and you're a nurse because you just want to help people if I ran the country I pay nurses a lot more by the way and but you know if you've in the first world and you've chosen you want to follow your passion and you want to launch your own business I believe if you work hard and work smart and keep going and stay in the game and learn on the job and pick something you enjoy over a long enough period of time you're going to be successful okay i beg to differ that's okay why do you differ then what's what's different i mean what we watch is you just hold them and they go up so of course you're going to be successful over the long term but listen but listen just all i'm saying is that just because you work hard it doesn't mean i said work hard and smart if i if hang on if i okay so i guess and smart is the caveat there.

44:36But if I turn on the television today, I come from a sort of showbiz background, my parents, and my son's an actor, et cetera. If I turn on the TV, and I'm not saying this because he's my son, I'm saying this because he's a good fucking actor. If I were him and I were turning on the TV and I were looking at EastEnders, I would just be like, what the fuck, man? How are these people getting this work? when they literally, it's almost embarrassing to watch them, they're so bad. And that's all I'm saying. There are so many people that deserve far more than they get, and there are so many people that get more than they deserve.

45:16That's all I'm saying. And so I think that, therefore, the actual derivative of success, if we're calling success money and affluence and toys and whatever, I think we always have to be grateful and take the pinch of salt because no one really fucking deserves anything if we look at the totality of what a meritocracy is. that's all yeah yeah i think i'm torn on this okay because on the one hand today i don't think i deserve anything okay you know i did what i did and yesterday is yesterday and tomorrow you think you're the fucking king of the world so i'm with you in that regard in that just because i've done what i've done doesn't mean shit you can lose it all lockdown you know things like that so in that regard if you carry around this entitlement that you deserve i'm with you i am of the opinion though right that you can't not buy a lottery ticket and complain that you haven't won the lottery Yes.

46:03And there's a lot of people out there like that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And by the way, I mean, absolutely. I'm not for a free lunch in any way whatsoever. I'm just saying that for people that do get the derivatives of the thing that they're striving for, just never really think that you deserve it because there are so many people that don't get it. That's all. Yeah. And then I would just add at the end, though, because you said there's plenty of great actors or people out there that are not there. Keep fucking going then. For sure. Just don't. Because you will get a break if you keep going.

46:31Absolutely. So, because also ultimately, right, it's about, because that's that thing about how we feel as an individual. In other words, the only thing I want on my deathbed one day, right, is to not - It's a fucking lot of watches. Is to not feel like, fuck, man, I wish I'd done this, I wish I'd done that. I don't mind failing. I mind the fear of not trying or the associated feelings with not trying. So I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't keep on trying until the end because it's all about how you feel when you go out, man. Yeah, and all these things you've just said there are what successful people say and do.

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47:55The agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link robmore.life forward slash money. All right, then let's have a bit of fun in this watch collection. Pick the watch in this collection that you think probably will go up the least or the least excites you and then pick up the watch which you think will probably go up the most and most excites you and then just tell us why for a try. Ah, wow. I mean, I know they're all rare special watches. Okay, they're not all, but are you talking percentage-wise of its current value or are you talking about... Yeah, I think that's a good way to do it because...

48:29All right, so percentage-wise of its current value. I mean, I'd have to take a group. I think that watches are still cheap for what they are. So I think that you could say that, let's say you put that today at three or whatever, okay? That Nautilus at three million, yeah. Yeah, I think that in... If you bear in mind that I bought this for like... I mean, it was fucking nothing. It was like a few thousand about 30 years ago. Right. And I think the watches haven't gone anywhere yet as far as their potential. I think that in 20 years' time is a£100 million watch. Wow. Well, hang on, look. What are there for guys?

49:09Wealth is getting, is increasing. Cars and watches. What else is there for men? Look at art. Look at what art's done. Yeah, but you can't take art with you anywhere, can you? The thing with a watch is you can... No, sure. I get it. You mean, you can smuggle it. You can roll a painting up. Or are you going to go on a night out with a painting roll down your arm? You're not going to go on a night out with that, I hope. You get a bit pissed and go, come here, Diane. But, you know, that, I think that Pro Rata, I think that stuff like that, Breitling. You think Pro Rata, that will go up? Sure, because the truth of it, it's just, you know.

49:43When you say the truth of it, by the truth you mean that is very cheap compared to the newer models and that is a better made watch. And also, it's a beautiful watch. It's a beautiful watch, mechanically beautiful. It's just a beautiful watch, great condition. And the fact that you can buy it for the price of a new average Tag Heuer today just should be a£25 ,000,£30 ,000 watch. Right. And then you could match it with a really nice strap that you like. I know you're kicking me on the strap on that. Well, yeah. I agree. It's a terrible strap. What you did with the Breguet. Was it the Breguet? You know, where you put that?

50:16Yeah, sure. But again, it's that thing about style, right? So when do fashions change? let's say horological fashions horological fashions change when the horological fashions change hard to say that can't really speak they change when someone stands out wearing something different right so if you change it up when you take a classically pipe and slipper dress watch like this which is the breguiser and then you change it up by putting a NATO military strap on it it does look cool as fuck and suddenly people go oh I might wear a vintage dressy watch because it looks cool like that It's all about that.

50:52It's about how you wear them and the confidence that you've got to wear them. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah. So I think that, you know, that, I mean, yeah, they're not a bad investment. Okay. So you think that the Breitlings, as a percentage wise, could do good? Absolutely. Okay. Interesting watch here. I think that, so Patek, right? So we talked about the Rolex Day-Date being their flagship watch. The perpetual calendar chronograph is Patek's flagship complication. They were the first perpetual calendar watch. And this is a more recent one, being the 5970 in yellow gold. Now, they started making this watch in the sort of 40s, really, with the 1460.

51:40Sorry, with the 1518. and they made more of the 1518 in yellow gold than they did of this or roughly the same amount, let's say, okay, as this. Now, this is a noughties, an early noughties rendition of that watch with a Le Mania-based movement, probably the best-looking, finest made example that they've manufactured, no longer made. and they made 300 pieces and yet it's around 170 grand. The platinum version, they made 600 pieces and yet they're at sort of quarter of a million. So I would say, well, from a rarity aspect, right, and from a truth aspect and from a beauty aspect, I mean, what a watch, right?

52:26I would buy as many of those as I could and just plank them away because I think they will be five, six, seven, hundred thousand pound watches. Wow. Because they also, the problem with vintage watches for a lot of people is they're small. Yes. And most fellas, sorry, but predominantly it's fellas that collect wristwatches. They're like a bigger watch today because you went to the whole 42, 44 mil thing. Going back down to a 34 mil is just for some people it's too, just a bit too a fair note for how they feel. Yeah. So it's still got the size, but it's got the rarity. Plus I'm not making any more.

53:03I think it's an absolute no-brainer. Yeah, so those. This, I mean, the white gold. Okay, so, interesting. So this is the equivalent of this, right? We talked about the sort of three million pound Nautilus, right? This is a white gold AP. Actually. Royal Oak. Yeah, Royal Oak. Roughly of the same era as the Nautilus. Yeah. This was at sort of around quarter of a million quid. It has a sort of tropical dial, which is when it turns to a brown colour. Yet this today is sort of like around the sort of 150. great value great investment great watch will be a million pound watch in my opinion because they made the perfect amount they made around 120 of them which is enough for the dealers to get behind them to buy them to put them away to play the game to hype the market and to turn them into the million pound watches so they can be a watch can be too rare for its own good like this here so this is a this is a platinum example of the aforementioned 59 17 yellow girl I told you about it's got an emerald bezel in it right it's like sort of over a mil.

54:06But, you know, really, I mean, they made, we don't know how many they made, but let's say they made a minimum of five for them. Good value, great value, but there's not enough of them for dealers to get behind and hype the price of. So take one of those 59.70s and get a goal, there's 300. You know what? Dealers can play the game because it's all a game. It's like, oh, it's all, you know, not all a game, A lot of it is a game. What's the game? Well, the game is that, you know, a lot of dealers will go, okay, kingpin dealers will get together around the world, and they'll go, do you know what? What's our next move, right?

54:46I don't get involved in this shit. And they'll go, okay, you know what? Let's all try and push. Recently there's been this thing, right? Fucking unbelievable, right? The Asprey's aftermarket stuff. Oh, wow. So basically a lot of important watches like that Kanjar Daytona here, right? This watch here, okay, which has got the Sultan of Amman's green Kanjar, right? I think you said you have a big red, right? Yes. Okay, can I ask you, what did you pay for your big red? In the early 20s. When? Ten years ago-ish. Okay, so is it Silverdale or Blackdale? Black dial. Is it Panda? Panda's white dial. Black dial with the white dial.

55:36Okay, so it's a black dial one. So today, if it's nice, that's a sort of what, let's call it a 70-gram watch. This is exactly the same watch. But the Sultan of Amman ordered a few of these. And instead of the full script, they put a green emblem on the dial, which means that this is now a£1.2 million watch. and the standard one that you've got is a 60-gram watch. Okay. Got to also bear in mind, talk about investment and stuff, right? If only I knew then what I knew now. Honestly, in the early 90s, there were a few of these that came up. We used to take the Kanjag dials off and we used to bin them because who the fuck wanted an Arab flag on their watch?

56:18Do me a favor. Do you know what I mean? Try and find an original normal dial, put it on. That's the only way you could sell it. You couldn't sell them. Right. So, okay, I know, great. I can't develop a twitch. I sort of get this nervous Inspector Clouseau twitch whenever I sort of start thinking about those antics. But in the back, it's got Asprey's engraved because all these Sultan watches, the majority of them, were ordered through Asprey's, who then sold them to the Sultan of Amman. Now, Asprey's, for one reason or another, I'm not going to go into, had their Rolex franchise taken away from them.

56:58OK, so what they're now doing, what they're now doing, dealers are going to fucking hate me for this. Oh, my God, it's going to be a contract out of my fucking head. One of the reasons that I believe they had their franchise taken away was because it's a combination of things. I think it was dealing on the grey market, which you're not supposed to do as a retailer, I think. As in selling second-hand watches? Well, selling stuff at a premium, whatever, through the... I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say that because I'm not 100 % sure, but that's the rumour. And they've also recently been customising watches.

57:35Now, what they're doing very cleverly is although they're no longer a Rolex agent, they're customising Rolexes and putting Aspreys on the dial. Now, because in the psyche of collectors, this Aspreys and Rolex are this sort of partnership, they're getting away with prices that are unbelievable at auctions. To me, a customized watch, unless it is the likes of Artisans of Geneva, who genuinely take a Rolex watch and kind of make it cooler and make it better. But that still probably doesn't do long-term value any good, does it? I don't know, man. I think the Artisan are kind of a law-uncated... By the way, I'm not an artisan agent, so I've got nothing to push here.

58:17I think I've got one of their watches in stock. That's it. But I think they do make them kind of cool and better. Mechanically, they do shit to them. It's pretty amazing, right? But them aside, you don't like any aftermarket at all? No, I didn't say that. I like them, but their value retainment is very subjective because they are, in effect, a bastardized Rolex, right? And by the way, I'm the first person to do it. I created the first people to do it were the Bamfords. Oh, the blacking. And I did it for them. Oh, did you? Yeah, I did it for them. And I used to make, stamp the dials, et cetera.

58:51Right. And they stopped that because Rolex didn't like it. Or so Rolex threatened them, did they? I don't know about that. I just know that Rolex didn't like it. But why would Bamford care? Well, because maybe they do. I don't know. They did. Do you know what I mean? And so they now. Because I remember that phase. And there was quite a few of them. Yeah, yeah. And do you know what? And they looked all right. Thank you. Yeah. But you know what's really interesting? is that they used to buy then, they used to buy the vintage plastic glass versions because they were cheaper than the modern sapphire glass versions.

59:18Can you believe that? Oh, wow. Now they're like over double. But then I was selling them loads of those that we could black and stamp because they were cheaper than the modern versions. But anyway, so now what's happening is that there are all these aftermarket Asprey's watches being created, which, again, for me are aftermarket watches. Yeah. And they're being hyped up in auctions and they're going for crazy money because the vibe, the sort of the subliminal vibe, if you like, is that there's something to do with Rolex. Right. Wow. OK. So what do you reckon is the most overrated watch? I think that's difficult I think that probably I'm sucking myself up to shoot every single brand down here but I think probably listen, people say to me, what's your favourite watch?

1:00:11no such thing, a watch is about how it makes you feel you feel different according to any day you wake up in the week so impossible question but I think with a

1:00:22with watches I think both cool watches and both overvalued watches depend on the model within each brand I would say that with Patek, I think that their kind of previous, now deleted, sort of, you know, 5711, I mean, I just don't get it. Surely the Aquanaut's got to be one of the most overrated watch models. People are going mad for those things. Okay, well, hang on. It's like a reject Nautilus. Okay, well, I'll counter you with this, right? I understand why you say that. And men are wearing nearly women's watches. The 5711. Okay, let's start with that, right? Which is the Nautilus. Yeah. That is a reinterpretation, a copy, if you want, of a prior original watch from the 70s.

1:01:12Is it not just an evolved version of itself? I mean, it's still copying itself, is it? It's the latest model. It's just exactly the same watch, but it's made in a cheaper way because it's got a three-piece case rather than a two-piece case. And all right, it's got a second hand that goes around. I mean, it's not much of an involvement if you ask me. Okay. But at least with the Aquanaut, at least it is an original watch. At least the Aquanaut was the first sort of like beach, rubberized kind of sports watch that really Patek kind of made, Nautilus excluded. Do you know what I mean? So the Aquanaut, I guess I sort of have more sympathy with because it's a newer take.

1:01:50It's a more recent take of theirs. It's not a copy as such. It's a derivative of the Nautilus, but it's not a copy. It stands its own – it's got its own place, in my opinion. So whilst I don't like the Aquanaut because they're just so fucking trendy, right? Oh, fuck. But – and you see all the kind of playboys on the beach with the green dial and the chrono, you know. But I actually think that there are certain bowls of the Aquanaut, like the sort of 36mm 5066 in gold with the grenade dial and a bracelet. Fucking killer watch. And they're like 70 grand. Killer watch, you know. And original. They never made anything like it before.

1:02:28So I think there are some aquanauts actually that are all right. Sorry. No, it's fine. Like we're here to discuss and I'm not going to get offended. This show is called Disruptors. Okay, so what is the most overrated watch then? Whether it's a brand or a type of watch. Well, I think a 5.7 Mbombo Patek is pretty overrated. Okay. Yeah, I suppose that's quite a big statement, isn't it? Because it's the fucking, it's the icon, right? Yeah. Okay, so what about an underrated watch? Underrated watch, I think that Jaeger makes some pretty sexy stuff. They do, and I like them, but they still drop like shit.

1:03:05That's why. I'm talking street values here, remember? No, yeah, so you're talking secondhand. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm not interested in the price of a watch in a shop. No. It just doesn't interest me. So you want to buy it at the bottom of its depreciation? No, I don't. No, I want to buy it for what it's worth. I know that I'm not going to lose my shirt and that I can stock it and I haven't got to sell it like an egg that's going off before it fucking plummets in value. But no one seems to get Jaeger. No one talks about Jaeger that I know. No, because it's not, they haven't perhaps got the right icon to wear it because all people go by who's wearing what and what's trending.

1:03:36But for value for money, I'm not talking about trends. And some value for money. I think Jaeger makes some great stuff. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that early Hoyas are cool as hell, man. Right. Not a big fan of Tag Hoyas. No. I think that early Hoyas are cool. I think that, listen, you can pick a brand and there'll be a model in there that I think, that's cool. Okay, pick a good Hublot. Okay. So the original series, right? So the original series of Hublot, right? Interesting watch because in the 80s. you're not talking about the Big Bang are you no fuck the Big Bang Big Bang's a copy of a fucking Royal Oak yeah genius if you're talking about numbers if you're talking about numbers and profit at the cost of soul and the cost of integrity etc Hublot's the greatest brand out there what a fucking brand that's not a brand though sure it is you took that to Mr Hublot that's not rocking around his fucking super yacht are they like do they have any are they make can I tell you a story yes of course I've got a great story right So I I bought a watch From JT once Right John Terry And I took a Hublot Number 26 Which he bought in an auction By the way Can I just Give a shout out to JT Because He gets a lot of bad press And he gave me A Hublot I didn't give him I took it in a deal From him right I'll tell you a funny story About playing table tennis For him And losing On a big I did a deal with the Rolls Royce And something else with him And And And you played for it over table tennis.

1:05:08And I fucking lost. I didn't play for the car, but I'll tell you a story about it, yeah. My son loved it because he loves it when I – because he's quite sporty, my son. He stays away from sports that I can play and I can play table tennis. But JT got inside my fucking head and did me. But anyway, he gave me in part exchange a Hublot number 26. I said, all right, I'll take it with this. We had a bit of a kind of haggle and I took it. And I got home and I started looking at it and I thought, this has got to be fake. I was like I called him up And I was like JT I don't want to seem like a cunt here But Where did you get this watch from And he goes I bought it in auction It's number 26 etc You know It's like a Hublot thing with Viva And I was like Okay cool He goes why So it's just so badly finished mate I just To be honest with you I'm wondering if it's real He goes what He goes well fucking let me know And I will And it was so badly finished Right That I thought it can't be Really And I sent my son down to Hublot I said just go and show this to, I think his name is Derek or someone at the Hublot.

1:06:06Give this once over, right? And I think that's a bit of a joke about the fact that Watch Guru was sending his boy in to see what the Hublot was fucking going on. He's like, yeah, yeah, no, they are like that, mate. You know, they are. He's right. I was just like, wow. Right. I mean, the finishing on it was just like. How did they get away, though, with being such a bad reputation? Most dealers don't know what end to look out of with any glass today. What chance is the private client of knowing what, do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's all about the look, baby. And they're genius. They are a cost-effective offshore out of my PK for a third of the money.

1:06:48I mean, it's clever. But you ask me, the brand was only big in Spain in the 80s. Right. Most of them were courts. Most of them were courts. There's an automatic version. and the early porthole, the early porthole hublots from the 80s. Fucking magical looking things. Really? Yeah. And cheap now. Great watches. How much? Great watches. You buy steel once a day for a couple of grand. Wow. Two and a half grand. Buy gold one for four. Great watches, man. And do you think that they could go up? Sure. And what do you think of Rolex as a brand? What do I think of the brand? I think that, okay, first of all, I heard something that Oscar said.

1:07:30from official, whereby he, I think, equated Rolex to be like Ferrari. I kind of disagree with that. In fact, I did a program called Time Machines years ago, went out on CNBC, where I did a whole thing about Ferrari being like Patek and Rolex being like Porsche. Because to me, Porsche are, I mean, they're a cost-effective car compared to a Ferrari, but they're still pretty incredible. and design-wise, you look at them, you look at the kind of speedster and you look at the 911 today, it's the same fucking car, all right. It's got some bigger bulges and some fins and whatever, but it's the same car, right?

1:08:07That's because if something ain't broke, you don't fix it. And I think that Rolex created the Oyster and if you look at this watch here, you know, and you look at a, I haven't sadly got one, but like a Day-Date or something like that, I mean, it's the same watch. It's got a bigger case, do you know what I mean? And that's why they've been genius. And they were also genius because when the quartz evolution, revolution came out in the sort of 60s, 70s. The quartz revolution. When battery-powered watches came in, everybody fucking panicked. Amiga went, oh, my God. And Amiga, who were always battling it out with Rolex for supremacy as far as which was the watch to have, et cetera, panicked and thought, fuck, the watch business is going to end.

1:08:48And they started creating watches for everyday man, diluted their brand, diluted their brand, and they've never recovered since, really, as far as their kudos. And they're now a tier underneath Rolex. They are, yeah. In my opinion, as a result of that. Rolex. I just want to jump in. We'll come back to the Rolex story. Do you think they went another level down by collabing with Swatch? No. I think they did. Do you? Well, because it pushes. If it pulls Swatch up, which it does, therefore got to pull Omega down. Listen, do you really think that modern Omega has kudos? No. There you go. So you think it's already in the gutter, the brand?

1:09:27Ah, gutter's strong. Well, you said it couldn't come down anymore. No, I didn't. I said, do you think that modern Amiga in the sphere of watches that we're talking about has kudos? I don't think it does have kudos. I think it's in the same way that compared to this stuff, I think it's on a level with Tag Heuer. It's on a level of this kind of stuff, in my opinion. Yeah, but then Swatch is a quartz cheap watch. Hey, listen. I think Swatch did better out of that, Calab. Okay, but Swatch own Amiga, so. Oh, then that says it all, doesn't it? There you go, baby. There you go. There you go. That sort of thing pisses me off, actually.

1:10:02Oh, I don't mind that. I mean, I get it. If you got it, flex, man. Why not? I mean, if you can make that work, why not? It's like, oh, yeah, we'll do the RSQA. Do you know why I think it works so well? What, the Swatch collab? Yeah, you know why I think it works so well. Oh, you think it works well? Oh, genius. Look, here. Don't drop it, okay? Okay. Really? Yeah. A million quid. Don't drop. You're offering me a million pound watch. Okay. That is lighter than a swatch. But let me ask you a question, right? That's a million pound watch. Look at the smile on your face, man. That takes you back, right?

1:10:35You don't know what this smile means. But listen, but doesn't it take you back to being under the Christmas tree as a kid when you're unwrapping your present and you're getting... It's like a plastic fucking toy, right? So to me, I get that. What Richard Mill have done, okay? And I'll come back to swatch, right? And then we'll go back to Rolex. But what Richard Mill have done, okay, is that's a million pounds. They've revolutionized wristwatches. Because here, talk about this. This is the most complicated watch ever made in history, right? It's an IWC, grand complication. Literally, at the time, it was the most complicated watch ever made in history.

1:11:10One piece made for the Sultan of Brunei, right? The problem with this, right, is that even when I'm putting this down, right, it's so heavy. Heavy, yeah. And so the complications in there, all these levers and wheels, et cetera, are so fragile that you knock them, it's broken, 10 grand, 15 grand service, right? That is a fucking Torbjorn, the most fragile complication in the world, and yet you can throw it, you can toss it, whatever. It's genius. What Richard Mill did is went, you know what? I'm going to make complications that are not only durable, but Rafael Nadal is going to fucking wear one when he's bludgeoning his backhand down the line.

1:11:48Genius. So he revolutionized watchmaking with that watch. Now, when I first bought one of those watches, right, I bought out the Italian retailer in about 18 years ago. He called me up. He said, Tom, he goes, I've tried these Richard Mills out here in Italy. They just don't want to know. They're too boring. They want Patek complications. They want Daytona. They just don't give a shit. And I bought him out of all his watches. It's Richard Mills. Yeah. So I took all his... All right, I fucking spent a fortune with him. And it's the first time. They'd only just come out. They'd only just come out.

1:12:25And I took one of them off in. And it came to me. It got sent to me. And I went to the shippers. And basically, I laughed. When I opened it up and I held it in my hand, I just laughed because I thought, this is fucking insane. And at the time, it was 175 grand I paid for it, right? And I was like, what the fuck? It's like a plastic toy that I get out of a cracker. And that says it all. But then when you look at the truth behind it, it's incredible. The watch is a mechanical marvel, right? And so that's what it's about. Watches are about the way that they make you fucking feel, man. Now, by contrast, that watch revolutionized high-end complications today, right?

1:13:08It's the ultimate fucking watch today, the most expensive, rich and really, et cetera, right? By contrast, right, this thing here. In the 1980s... You're not going to throw that at me, are you? In the 1980s, right? A million quid for this piece of plastic. Yeah. I wish people watching and listening could feel how light that is. I did a post once where I tossed it into a pool and it kind of floated for a bit. Yeah. So basically, but let's stay on that for a minute. So I don't get too fucking stupid to kind of be able to correlate all these thoughts. Sorry, I'll guide us back. Thanks. We've got to go back to Swatch and then back to Rolex.

1:13:46Let's go back to Swatch now. Okay, so listen. So the reason why I think, okay, so that is a plastic watch being worth, people are perverse, right? Yeah. Everybody, I believe, are perverse. Porn, whatever it is, okay? Everybody's got their secret shit they don't really fucking want people to know about, right? Now, with that perversion of a plastic watch being worth a fortune of money and it's light, whereas I always thought that an expensive watch had jewels and was platinum and was heavy, okay? Amiga have tapped into that beautifully because they've gone, you know what? we're going to collaborate with Swatch because they both own each other and we're going to make some fucking plastic Speedmasters fucking genius and that to any collector so I've seen loads of RM owners right love rocking a fucking Amiga Spoon watch because it kind of crosses over to that vibe of a plastic watch being worth money it's genius I thought I didn't know Swatch owned Amiga and I just thought it was a punching up for Swatch and down for Amiga but yeah they've got everyone paying£250 for a piece of plastic and then£300 they want more than that well yeah I remember I bought the Neptune paid£1 ,500 for the fucking Neptune there you go what's wow can I ask you a question having said that statement how do you feel Rob?

1:15:06we all make mistakes failure is a part of success I will take you I will take you to a fucking safety deposit box there's a full amount of mistakes yeah Yeah, so I'm not really bothered. I actually keep it. I like it. I like the look of it. So yeah, that... What was that AP you picked up? Okay, so for the same reason as that... Okay, so you like the Swatch Amiga collab? I do. They must be making loads of money out of it, surely. I'm sure they are. Because I guess they're going to make millions of those watches. I guess, I don't know. And I guess they're going to just keep churning out new variations.

1:15:37There's like 20 variations already. Squeeze the pits out of it, I'm sure. And also, by the way, Swatch also own Blancpain. And Blancpand did the 50 Fathoms. Again, a very cool watch, plastic. Yes, they did the collab there, yeah. Yeah. So that, okay, altered my senses, completely smashed my perception of what a watch was. And for me, that's important because it doesn't get, you know, it takes something pretty fucking perverted to get me turning my head like a puzzle dog, right? Yeah. For the same reason, in the 1980s, watches were about slimness. They were about a small size, 34 mil, et cetera, lightness, et cetera.

1:16:13And suddenly, right, so you've got this watch here, which is sort of the wafer-thin kind of, you know. The AP, yeah. AP Royal Oak 5402, first reference of a Royal Oak ever. And suddenly, AP go, in 1993, they go, fuck y 'all, man. And they bring out this absolute fucking behemoth, right? And I remember, now this is white gold, okay? This is rarer than fuck. They probably made less than 20 pieces. It's number one. It's a holy grail of watches, right? Yeah. But even in steel, which I don't have right here today, was a beast. I remember looking at it and just laughing and putting it on my chicken wrist and going, what the fuck?

1:16:51I loved it. Again, so the two most important watches that revolutionised the whole watch game, I think, were a few of them. Daytona, we talked about, the RM and the sort of early 2000s. But then this beast in white gold. Bloody hell. that is just weighs a ton but imagine imagine if this was what you were used to as far as like that was a big watch and you were thinking could i really get away with wearing that and suddenly someone puts that in your hand and you're like what what the fuck is this right yeah yeah i mean that almost feels like it's platinum it does almost yeah i agree wow and how much is this watch okay but that watch see what what's happened now is because this whole crash in in In modern watches, right?

1:17:38Yeah, but there was a massive bubble post-COVID, wasn't there? Sure, of course. I'm saying a crash as according to... A crash to me is anything that comes rapidly down, right? Regardless of where it was before, it went up, but that's still the price you could have cashed out, right? Yeah. And basically they come down. So, okay, let's not use the word crash. Let's use the word the big dip. Yeah. Like it. Let's drop that, okay? So as far as the correction after COVID when watches... As far as the correction after COVID when watches came back down, in coming back down, and by the way, it deserved to come back down because the prices were fucking insane for what I think is a lot of fodder in the first place anyway, right?

1:18:16That never should have gone up in the first place. It took with it a lot of truth. Now, that watch there, I think I now own that. A client of mine turned down, I think,$200 ,000 for that watch. Wow. And I think I took it in a deal from him for like, you know,$100 ,000 or something. You know, so although that's a lot of money, in a historical timepiece, number one of a truly historical timepiece, number one of a historical timepiece of an apex version of that timepiece, it's for no money and I think it'll be worth a million quid, you know. Wow. All right, so now let's go back to Rolex. What do you really think about Rolex?

1:18:57Okay. So we talked about the, what such a fucking long question for me to answer. Listen, they are, they're almost responsible for the turnaround in my life, right? Because they basically, thank you, they, you know, they are the thing that inspired me to turn, not to turn my life around because I was already clean and sober, but they were the thing that focused my energies upon something that could give me the life that I have today, right? So I love them for that, and I'll be eternally grateful to them for that, along with the fact that my dad, you know, that watch there, that's the most important watch I have right there, that one, you know.

1:19:36Yeah. And, you know, so I love them for that. But if you're asking me, you know, what do I think of them as far as should they have the standing that they have today in Watchworld? Absolutely fucking not. Why not? I think that they are an example of someone or a company that has absolutely maximised their past, which is now, in my opinion, the last sexy thing they did was in the 1930s with the automatic watch, although I might give them the 1950s with the Day-Date. But apart from that, not much else going on. And I think that it just shows what the glossy magazines, what the advertisements, what the hype can create and can build if you're throwing half mud at the wall.

1:20:43I really do. I think that they are massive. I think that most watchmakers will tell you that the movement quality of a Rolex today just isn't the same that it was even in the sort of like the late 90s. I think that in the noughties and onwards, I think that quality-wise and meritocracy-wise, I think they're definitely on the decrease, I think. Wow. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry, Rolex. I love you, but hey. I'm going to defend you again here. I think you answered that in a balanced way. And I think we need more balance in the world. I think the ability to say, I love Rolex because, and I don't love Rolex because.

1:21:29True. I love X because, and I don't love X because. And I try and be like that, and it's not very popular for social media. But I will say one thing. So I don't think you slagged Rolex. I think you could have said more. You know what I will say about Rolex as well, which is again probably a negative well that's not probably it is a negative is that look when I got into watch world okay they were so helpful they were so respectful like they had a fucking lost and stolen number that if you were buying a pre-owned watch you could call them up and they would call you back within like 20 minutes and tell you whether the watch was registered as lost or stolen for no cost yeah yeah how fucking amazing is that yeah how respectful of okay people does that You could I knew the MD of Rolex UK And Henry Hudson Who passed away sadly Bless him And if I had any queries I could email him, call him And they kind of knew as well That you know, that listen That selling expensive vintage Rolexes Was good for the brand as well, right?

1:22:31It's like, you know So You know, so I guess that was good And then if he couldn't answer the question I could even call you neither Now You can't It's like trying to get Blood out of the stone They don't want to get involved They don't want to whatever Fine Okay you know what Stay in your lane I get it It's kind of sad Because it's not hugely respectful Of people that have In a way Unwittingly helped build your brand Because they have Listen when you see watches When you see Rolexes Going for 5 million quid 6 million quid 14 million quid Good for the brand right So And now they've recently Got involved with The whole pre-owned market and they've bought Bookera, the watch retailer, and they've launched their CP, their certified pre-owned program, right?

1:23:16So they're selling them new and then they're selling them again. Pre-owned. Right. Now, but here's the thing, right? As far as the actual, as far as the, how can I put this, the sharp end of the whole Rolex collectible industry, they don't really know too much about it, man, okay? So they're now giving opinions and servicing watches that perhaps aren't worthy of service and perhaps they shouldn't be selling because the dial's been changed or whatever, etc. Now, that in conjunction with... So they're selling Frankensteins. That's what you mean. Hang on. If we're saying Frankenstein as a dial, a face that doesn't belong in a watch, then yes.

1:24:01Because basically, we have to accept, right? We just talked about a Daytona there with a can jar in it, right? It's 1.2 million quid. Same watch without a can jar. 70 grand right so a dial is important in a watch i got a steel moon face i wish i bought it today for you that won a million and a half quid for it i just sold one they only made around 100 of them i got a steel one with a restored face in it that i just saw for 150 grand so a face is important so when you're selling stuff that has later replacement face faces and you're not divulging that and saying this watch over it's a problem right right so you know i just think that they're messing up the market a bit, that coupled with the fact that they're not giving any help unless you really kind of like smash down the door, whatever.

1:24:48It's a bad combo, man. And I think it's disrespectful to the public as well. I think it's disrespectful to the people that have helped build their brand in the past with vintage stuff going for the money that it has. Is this a cultural thing or is this just individual brands? but there's been something that's been pissing me off for quite a few years now. And I'll put it out there so you can stand behind me and I'll take the bullets for you. But I bought a lot of APs and they treated me really well. And I love them as a company. Well, I used to. I will say one thing. I love AP Geneva as a company.

1:25:24Not crazy, but the UK. Yeah. All right. So AP, I'd bought, say, four or five APs. And not all of them from AP. on the used market and they would take me to the watch show every year. They'd have private dinners unveiling their new collections and they'd invite me, Jamie Redknapp, all of that lot. Yeah, yeah, they'd do all that. And they'd make you feel really special. And they'd show you the watches before anyone else and you'd get an opportunity to get a limited edition when they were limited edition before anyone else. And that's all gone now. They don't give a fuck. They don't care anymore.

1:25:59They don't need to. Is it just that? I think, sadly. I mean, it must be, right? And look what, I've not bought enough, you did this with your tongue, so I've not bought enough watches to go up the hierarchy. Not that is because, you know, when they whine, they dine, they're giving everybody a blowjob. Why? Because they're just being nice to you? They want you to buy their shit, man. Yeah. Okay, but now they realise, actually, we don't need to whine and dine these mofos because guess what? We've got a fucking waiting list anyway and we ain't got to buy the expensive wine. I love it when, I love it how you go so street when you say things like that.

1:26:32It is true, right? You're like, bro! No, I'm not giving that black accent. I'm just saying they don't fucking need to, right? So maybe I'm just sour then, that they used to treat me nice, and now they don't. No, because also what's happening is... Did you take it too personal? Yeah, maybe. Maybe, but maybe they made it personal. No, sure. Listen, the fact that they've not been respectful to you is wrong. Well, I'm not saying respectful. Well, it is. But like the last three, I've now got my third person looking after me who isn't looking after me. They want to know all the watches I've got in my collection, clearly to judge me.

1:27:07Why do I have to give them all the watches I've got in my collection? That's a shocker. Yeah, and they want all that. It's the same with Ferrari, right? It's just like... Well, I was going to say that. Ferrari, Rolex, you know, and they're making you buy three or four or five, you know, window watches and cars, and then you don't even get the one you want. It is repugnant. Thank you. Hallelujah. I got told I could have the blue one. I really love the look of that blue ceramic AP. And I got nowhere near it. And I got nowhere near any of it. Just buy more. And then they invite you in. Oh, sorry, we haven't looked after you.

1:27:40We'll look after you now. Here's your new manager. And then they bring out a load of shit watches that they can't sell. But here's the thing, though, right? The battle for them is, and I think the battle in life, right, is that the whole thing's a contradiction in turn. The whole thing's a kind of a contradiction, right? A paradox. Yeah. Thank you. I was looking for the word. Really, it's about how do you tread the line of mass production with the most diligence? And exclusivity as well. And you start giving everybody blue ceramics. Suddenly the blue ceramics ain't worth that much money. No. So it's all a game.

1:28:19Yeah. It's all a game. So it's not about... You have challenged me, though. You've challenged me to think, is my ego getting in the way here? But then... But I think you're still... Because I just felt... The fact that they once... It was like they cared and now they don't. It's the same thing with Rolex. It's the same deal, man. Is that they once needed you, but now they don't. That's it, yeah. Because they don't need you anymore. And the thing is, though, right, and that everybody... It's like you once scratched their back, right? Because you were the punter that was buying their watches when other people weren't.

1:28:49And I was giving loads of free publicity. They should still take care of you. Yeah. Okay, so let's defend the watch companies for a second, if we can, okay? All right. There's only one of you, right? I'm not hugely knowledgeable about all your business affairs, Rob, but I think predominantly you're like a property guy. Is that right? Yeah. Okay, right. So if you have regular people that you sell to, let's say, right, okay, and suddenly BlackRock come in and say Rob we want you to fucking buy us properties man right and we need to we need to buy properties or whatever maybe I'm choosing a shit analogy I don't know right no it's a good analogy BlackRock I'd tell them to go fuck themselves okay fine alright so they said they did right because they'd own me then okay so but basically they said listen maybe they don't want to own you but they want you to buy properties for them okay and it's taken every fucking working hour that you've got to fulfil their needs but wow you're getting fat from it would you genuinely still give the same amount of time to the buyers that you've got right now that feed you?

1:29:53The same amount of time? Your heart says you'd like to think you would but your head says you probably wouldn't be able to. There you go. Yeah, and I get that. And it's business. But you know what they should have done though? They might have lost me as a client and they've probably made packets since lockdown. So why do they care? So here's another analogy, right? Which I think is kind of cool. I do have 4 million followers on social media, so maybe they might start to care. It's not a smart move. Exactly. It's not a smart move for them. I agree. But at the same time, right, I think what they could have done is written you a letter or written clients, a generic letter even, that said, listen, we thank you so much for the support you've given us in the brand.

1:30:30However, because demand now is just so crazy for us and because we can't really fulfill the need, please take this as an appreciation of our esteem for the help you've given us. And please don't take insult or offence. They could have just done something whereby they're acknowledging the people in the past or something. I think they could have. For example, right, as I told you when I was a kid, right, naughty and drugs, that kind of stuff, teenager. And I got sent from a mom when I was a kid for robbing coots. If you're going to do a bank, you may as well do coots, right? You robbed coots bank?

1:31:04Not with a gun, but I like ripped them off, okay? You ripped off coots bank. I was terrible as a kid. I fucking meet people now, right? I gave an article, this is madness, right? You didn't nick watches off of it, did you? That would have been good. I gave an article about this charity that I started, The Telegraph.

1:31:28And the guy, the editor, before we sat down, the journalist, he says, Tom, there is something I must tell you before we start. I know someone that you know. And I'm like, oh, right, who's that? She goes, well, yeah, yeah, it's a woman called Jo. And I'm like, okay, he says, yeah. she said um you carjacked her in the west end of london to the photo and i was like oh okay um right um and basically i sort of like said well can i have her number please etc to try and make amends or whatever you know so i did some pretty crazy shit but the reason that's sort of diverse there but but the reason that i put this up is because coot basically blacklisted me i went to romand came out couldn't open a bank account five years i had to go to a loan shark to borrow£1 ,500 at 10 % a month to start my watch business.

1:32:1110 % a month? Genuinely. Shit. I couldn't open it back. But you paid that back, did you? Paid it back after. Well, you'd have been dead if you didn't, I guess. Paid it back after four months. He saw how well I'd done those four months and then later became my business partner, which soon got dissolved, don't worry. Right. But basically, yeah. Now, so after a while, I managed to open up a bank. I think it took seven years where I was allowed to open up a bank at somewhere else. It was NatWest, whatever. and then Coot's talking about this thing about AP acknowledging. Coot's wrote me a letter that I've still got.

1:32:42He said, dear Mr Bolt, we know that we've had our differences in the past and sent me down, right? But we couldn't help but notice that your business has gone from strength to strength and wondered if you'd now like to join us. So you conned them. Did you go to prison for that? I went to Vermont, yeah. Oh, wow. And then they wrote you that letter. and now they'd write to you saying, sorry, you've been debanked. Because they've become full circle. Oh, wow, that's really good. Right, which watch have you bought that's made the most money? And it can be in percentage terms of growth or just you bought really cheap and it went really high or just it's gone nuts.

1:33:22Oh, do you know what? I think I'm probably going to plead the fifth on that. No. I think so. You're not, are you? I think so. I know I got your juiced up in the strip club. Sorry, you can't come home with me. I didn't think we had that kind of relationship. Is it because you don't want to name the watch or is it because it's a lot of money? It's a fair amount of money. Okay, because I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't chase you. That's fine. We'll see. Okay, here we go. Okay, about 24 years ago, So I make, I'm quite lucky, okay? You can call it a gift or whatever. But I kind of seem to be able to see what's coming next in Watch World, okay?

1:34:09So I kind of spot trends, I guess. It's not because I'm actively looking. I just kind of feel it. So you know when a 328 Ferrari, right? At one point, that was just a has-been kind of slightly ugly car that was out of date, right? And then within the space of a month, suddenly you thought, wait a minute, that thing looks fucking cool now, right? It's that kind of, it's spotting that a bit earlier, right? So I was always into vintage diamond watches. So much so that people have written articles about me as being before I said sort of king of bling on this sort of shot, which I didn't really like because it makes me seem a bit kind of like, no offense to Dubai, but Dubai and I'm not.

1:34:44And I basically bought a 6270. Which is a... It's similar to your 6263, the Kanja or whatever it is. Okay, so Rolex Daytona. Yeah, in gold with a baguette bezel and a pavé diamond dial. Right. And I was into diamond stuff when people just were not. Okay.

1:35:07And everyone was like, why are you buying this kind of diamond stuff? I just felt it. I just loved it. Because it was disruptive. People were wanting stainless steel stealth watches. And I was like, ah, do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I paid.

1:35:26It had a bit of damage to the bezel. And I took it in the deal for like, I don't know, I'm going to say like 30 grand or something like that. And suddenly diamond stuff started to get kind of like really big, do you know what I mean, et cetera, do you know what I mean? By the way, I was fucking diving off boats in the ocean wearing this thing, right? Because there's nothing like diving into the ocean or a pool wearing a kind of vintage gold sports watch. To me, it's fucking Nirvana. I just don't know what it is It just fucking turns me on So And I basically traded out of that watch About A client man really wanted it So I took a bunch of his stuff In a swap that I quite liked as well And I guess that was around Just shy of a couple of million quid And there's one coming up There's one coming up in auction Estimated at Sotheby's Between 2 and 4 million dollars Now Now the stuff that So one of the parts of the trade By the way Was this here The Emerald Daytona Which is now 3 million plus So I think it had done alright Woo Yeah baby So you said you can usually spot trends What do you think is an upcoming trend That hasn't been seen yet?

1:36:42I think that everything now Has become so trendy With the small discreet Cartier tanks etc That I think It wouldn't surprise And by the way I haven't got any here but integral watches, right? What's that? Integral watches, which are like watches that have a bracelet attached to them. Okay. Rather than having lugs, I haven't got one here. Right. But basically it's where the bracelet is soldered directly to the watch and it doesn't have lugs that stick out to hold the strap. Yeah. They have become quite hot lately. And I have, I did well on those. I've got literally two bags Full of them sort of thing So those have done well But I think they're going to Kind of like start to dip I actually think Believe it or not I think that big washes Will come back in again soon Because everything's gone so small So discreet That I'm not so sure that like You know the original offshores And shit like that Might not start to kind of like Because I think you've got to kind of In a way to be To kind of buck the trend today I think in a way You've got to kind of wear big But the trick is Is to wear discerning big so you don't look like the kind of Russian gangster that just hasn't ever caught up with times yet.

1:37:54Do watches have capital gains tax? No. If you're not a watch trader? If you're a collector, no. There's a very murky line there. Is there? I mean, if you just own watches personally and it's not for a business, no capital gains tax. No tax. But of course, what the tax don't do is give you a finite limit of how many you're allowed to own and then sell before you become a trader. Oh, so if you're a private collector, but you turn around a lot of watches, they might call you a trader. Sure, of course I would, wouldn't you? Well, no. I mean, even if I bought and sold 100 watches a year, I'll never be a trader.

1:38:29I'll always be a collector. I'm a property investor. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a podcaster. Okay, listen, I'm with you, baby. Oh, yeah, no, no. This is my going to be, yeah, yeah. But I think that, you know, if I were the tax officer, I'd be going, well, how am I going to be? Not really. But could you then, is it about amount of watches or value of watches? It's about persuading the tax, I guess. I don't know. I don't think there's any finite limit. Right. Yeah, because, you know, you can definitely wear 12 different types of watches for 12 different types of occasions. For sure. And then you might want...

1:38:56And get bored of it. Yeah, sure. Ah, OK. No capital gains tax. Can you buy a watch as a company asset? I think, yeah, if you buy it as a collectible. Sure. If you buy it as a... I think you can as an investment. but I think there's a murky rule there with regards to if you get use out of it. Yes, well, there is. I think it's called benefit and kind. There you go. And duality of purpose. You're trying to trick me. You're asking me questions that you already know the answer to. Yeah, that's what the police do. And my business partner does that to me as well. Good cop, bad cop. I'm not trying to trick you.

1:39:33You know more about this shit than trying to trick me. I'm joking, mate. I know you are. But, yeah, I think it's good that you made that point because I didn't know if I didn't know anything different. But yeah, as I understand, you can buy it as a company asset, like you might buy gold or silver or the stock market with your money, but you can't wear it because then you've got benefit in kind. And then they want the income tax, et cetera. Okay, great. Tom, I've really enjoyed this. Thanks for giving us all your time. No problem, man. Thanks for the chicken burger and the chicken wings. That was great.

1:40:03Thanks for showing us all the watches. I know you don't want me to say, but everyone just take my word for it. There's fucking millions of pounds of the watches here, some real rare watches. So, yeah, really appreciate it. Can I give you one quick message? Yeah, sure. Andrew. Oh, yes, yeah. Andrew, do me a favour, right? Stop wearing that fucking after-set shite. Buy something proper off me. Right. Well, I took a video for him. So this AP here is not aftermarket. It's not got iced out. It's actually the original watch. That is an original set, Royal Oak, set with the most amount of stones any Royal Oak has ever been set with.

1:40:43There's a signed letter from Mayland, the then CEO of AP. But it's not just the quantity of stones. It's the artisan way in which they're cut and they're set because it's vintage. Just stunning. I mean, that's Andrew's watch, isn't it? Hey. I didn't fly it out to you, man. Tom, thank you very much. Take care.

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