#304. From War Torn Congo To London Prisons - Rosca Onya

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1:18Most media plans treat frequency as a risk, something to cap. But in podcasting, that costs performance. Hearing a brand advertised repeatedly makes 50 % of fans more likely to remember it against 17 % who say less likely. And that positive impact is true against every outcome we tested. Podcasting is where repetition builds, not where it wears out. Get more insights like this from ACAST's latest podcast Pulse report, which is out now. Download for free at acast.com slash pulse. I was born in Congo. When I was five, a war broke out. They're arresting some people and putting them in prison. Some people are getting murdered there and then on the spot.

2:00But what they was doing is taking children and turning them into, like, child soldiers. There was a knock on the door, and my dad and my mum got taken away. What was it like for you being a nine-year-old coming to South London? I was like, I just need to survive, so I just proved my worth. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. Yes, there was times where I carried certain things which I shouldn't have carried, but I had to just do whatever I had to survive. Dangerous man, and you've got nothing to lose. Yeah. So from five to 18, it's been chaos. Real chaos, yeah. How many prisons did you do?

2:34I've done about 15 gels. When I touched down in ISIS, I had half the gel on me, don't you? On you? I had half the gel on me because I was Roscoe. You don't know where I just come from. I just started channeling that and I'm just like, okay, so if you guys want to take it there, I want to take it 10 times further. As soon as we took the bend, helicopters, everything just appeared out of nowhere. I've never seen so much police like this in my life. What's that feeling like when you're in court and they said, you're going to go to prison indefinitely?

3:08Welcome to the Eventful Lives podcast. I'm your host, Dodge, and I'm the founder of Bournemouth Sevens, the world's largest sport and music festival. On this podcast, I speak to proper characters of all lived eventful lives. Do us a favour and hit that follow button and be sure to check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Dodge Wooden, where we've now had over 100 million views. Roscoe, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you for having me, Dodge. Yeah, we're finally here. Yeah. We're looking forward to this one. Let's roll all the way back. How did you go from living in Congo to get put in prison in the UK indefinitely?

3:40Oh, so I was born in Congo, DRC, because there's two Congo, there's Congo Brazzaville and Congo DRC, and DRC is the bigger country, because if they had it all in one, it would have been too big. So I was born into a very wealthy family. My dad was an architect, but he had ties to, he had political ties. And then when I was five, a war broke out, you know, and then my dad got arrested, my mum got arrested. And then we got, you know, then me and my sisters just went on our journeys from there. We went into different camps from Congo, Kinshasa to Congo, Brazzaville, then from Congo, Brazzaville to a camp in Nigeria, then to a camp in Benin.

4:28and we spent like three years with our parents in refugee camps and later on we was able to be reunited with our parents because they fled and came to the UK and seek political asylum escape wherever they was and then started searching for us and luckily my sister always put us our names down in every camp that we went to and um then yeah we came with the help of the Red Cross they tracked us down and we was brought over to be reunited with our parents and I had a great life dodge like i had an amazing life you know i had what my life in congo was great like we was good i had uh i went to a a private school you know um and i ate good you know my dad worked and he used to come back home from his wherever he went he went away for like two weeks or whatever and he'll come back home and bring all sorts of different delicacies and one of my favorite memories of my dad um being that age is when he brought back a crocodile and i was eating a crocodile yeah yeah i was eating a crocodile with my dad in the in the back garden you know and tastes like chicken yeah so um yeah so i had a great life dodge yeah mate so when you when you were in congo what did your both parents get arrested for um so the coalition was coming in and what they do is when they come in um if there's a queue or whether there's whatever's happening they go around arresting anyone that's got political ties to the other government that just, you know, that's on their way out.

5:59And my mum was like half Rwandan and different stuff. And like I said, my dad had, you know, political ties and different things like that. So yeah, they just got arrested for being connected to the party that was being, you know, that was under attack. So when they get arrested, what happens out there in Africa and Congo, then they get arrested. Are they literally saying, we're taking you away from your kids? Are they arresting you and putting them in prison? Are they arresting them? How did it work? They're arresting some people and putting them in prison. Some people are getting murdered there and then on the spot.

6:37Like if you look at what's happening right now in Burkina Faso with Captain Torrey, there's been a lot of different things happening with coups and things like that. So all these things happen, you know, and yeah, it's just, it's just crazy to me. You know, how old were you when you knew your parents got arrested? I was five. Okay. Did you know what was going on? I didn't really have a clue. I didn't really understand it. I remember hearing gunshots going off and we had a massive house and where we lived behind us was train tracks. So I remember my dad climbing the ladder to see what was happening because the soldiers was coming into the capital through the train tracks and stuff.

7:22So my dad climbed up the ladder. So I climbed up after and being, you know, being a boy and you want to see what's happening. So I climbed the tree to see what's happening. and there's people getting shot. There's all these different things happening. And I remember a bullet went past us and hit the house. And my dad's like, get down, get down. So I got down and yeah, then after about, I can't remember how long, there was a knock on the door and my dad and my mom got taken away. Bloody hell. Yeah. And how many brothers and sisters have you got? We had two sets of twins in our family. And I had a sister called, you know, I had two sisters.

8:05I've got, as it stands now, I've got six sisters and I'm the only boy. So I'm surrounded by a woman. When you were taken away, was it your six sisters and you were taken away by who? So my dad managed to get word out to his friends and they came and got me and my sisters. and then took us to the neighboring side of Congo where all these people was walking. So as you manage, as you can imagine, when you're walking and you're fleeing a war-torn country and there's things going on and, you know, you see all sorts, you know, you see bodies and all of this stuff. So as a five-year-old seeing all of that stuff and going through different things, it was tough, you know.

8:46It was really unpleasant. I bet. And that sticks with me to this day. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. So when you're taken to camps, what are the camps like? It's rough, rough. You know, some days you're not even getting any food. I remember we was young, you know, my older sister Sheta at the time, she must have been about, I can't remember, about 12, 13. And she literally became our mum, you know, our guardian angel through them places and cooking and trying the best to get food and all of this stuff. So it was really tough. It was really tough and um i remember surviving of just bread and water and um what we used to do we'll get if we managed to get some sugar we'll put the sugar in the hot water stir it and then when you dip your bread it's even it's sweet and also it gives you that little boost you know so that's what we survived off and when we was lucky we'll get beans or rice and that was literally it for like three years you know when you're in a camp just just explain to me here what a camp would look like is it just tents everywhere with with yeah there's tents everywhere um and there's officials that are there to look after you but them officials tend to do nasty things you know some of the soldiers and some of you know i remember being in a camp in benin and um us being kids we went out and played outside and we met my cousin some of my cousins there and my cousin's name is jojo so we got in his car me and jojo and he just he came out of the other day bless him you know he's he's smashing he's doing great and he's doing amazing for himself and i remember us being in the back of i don't know some guys tried to offer us sweets and but what he was doing is taking children and turning them into like child soldiers and and things like that and um jojo reminded me of this story because i i forgot about this story so me and my me and two of my sisters and jojo and some i can't remember i think it was someone else from the camp we got in this car and it was giving us sweets and it started driving away with us and then me and jojo clocked what was happening we started fighting the guys fighting for our life to get our car screaming and by the grace of god we managed to get our car i don't know what would have happened to us dodge we would have been child soldiers or whatever um but yeah so that's that's that's what goes on in them places.

11:12It's horrible. Bloody hell. Horrible. How long were you in that first camp for? Do you remember? I can't really remember it, but I just remember that we, I remember the three places that we went to and I remember the last place that we was at, which was a camp in Benin. So in Congo, were these camps in Congo or were you crossing the border? Crossing borders. So from Congo to the neighbouring Congo, which was Congo-Brazzaville. Yeah. Then from there to Nigeria, Then from Nigeria to Benin. So it was a long trip, you know, and we're getting moved by the Red Cross or the UN and people like that. And the last place that we was at was a place in Benin.

11:53And it was like, not huts, but it was like, it was better. That was better than anywhere else we've ever been. You know, it was more, even though it was rubbish, but it was more comfortable, you know. So it was, it wasn't bad in Benin, but I just remember that incident of the people coming and trying to put us in a car and take us away. Isn't that crazy how the child soldiers, how they're grabbing and saying, right, we're going to train you up to become a soldier at a young age, eight, nine, ten. Yeah. Yeah. Bloody hell. When was the, when you got taken away from your mum and dad, how long was it until you got reunited with your mum and dad?

12:31About three and a half years later. And no communication in between? Nothing. Bloody hell. Nothing. so imagine being a five-year-old boy and you don't know where your parents are and you know later on you you find out you know we're chilling in a camp and a lady comes over with a phone and says here's a phone and and then we hear our mom's voice for the first time and my sister's crying and then she asks us to speak to everyone and we speak to her and she's like don't worry i'm gonna come and get you guys you know so yeah wow where did you leave when your last stop was Nigeria Benin Benin yeah and then what your parents come and got you when you flew to England so my mom had to come and check and make sure obviously with the Red Cross they have to make sure that that's your children and stuff like that so don't do check your nails check your teeth you know your DNA like your blood and all of that stuff then once all that stuff was sorted then she came over um then she went back you know after i can remember like a few days she went back to england so we were since your mom and dad were in england at the time yeah they fled are they fled and got to england while you're still out in the while we're still figuring okay what we're going through and we're in different parts of the world yeah they're now in the uk with my older sister and And they've Seek Political Asylum got it and they're now searching around for us and trying to find out where we are.

14:01So yeah, then she came over and we were so happy to see her. We all hugged each other and we was all crying. Then she had to leave and come back over here. And then after they confirmed everything, then they put us on the plane and then we came to the UK and it was like a Tuesday and it was freezing and it was snowing. So coming from a hot country, yeah, I was so shocked. I was like, oh my God, what's all this white stuff? You know, like, what's all this going on here? I was freezing. But they gave us jackets on the plane and stuff because they knew it was going to be snowing and stuff. So, yeah, that's my first ever time stepping foot on UK soil.

14:44It was snowing. Yeah. I was just. How old were you? I was nine then. You were nine. Okay. Yeah. What was it like for you being nine? Where did you move to? What part of London? I moved to Plumstead. Okay. An area in like, near Woolwich. Woolwich, yeah. Okay. Yeah. What was it like for you being a nine-year-old coming to South London? It was, it was, it was an eye-opener and it was very strange because I, we've just left the place where, you know, there's chaos, there's everything going on around us and I'm in this place and it's very calm. At first, that's what it seemed like. It's very calm. My mum, they gave my mum a two-bedroom council flat, and there were seven of us, you know.

15:33So we're sleeping on the floors, we're sleeping here. My mum's working like two jobs. My dad was doing his best, working a few jobs himself. There's no money. Everyone's trying to figure out life. And yeah, it was very different to what I was used to. And then obviously they had to enroll us into school and stuff. But luckily for us and my sisters, our stuff's always been well documented on paper. You know, these children have been through this and that and that, and they need this and that and that. But we never, ever got the help for it, you know. So it was very different. Did you blend in quite easily or was it a massive culture shock for you?

16:17I'd imagine it would be quite tough. You know, two different, you know, Congo and England is very, very different. Did you blend in quite well? Did you have to make friends quite easily? Was there a lot of Mickey take? How was it at the time? When I started primary school, I started in year five. So it was really difficult for me because I got really picked on. um so in my school there was there was Mehmet and another kid and two different kids um and they they they just literally picked on me you know they spat on me in the playground um got called names like fresh off the bowl and all of this stuff my sisters also experienced some form of bullying um and the teachers was well aware of it and I'll tell you a funny story in a minute All the teachers was well aware of it.

17:09But when I got to year six, we had three months left till you start secondary school. And my head teacher at the time thought it would be wise for me to go back on for like a month or so whilst they tackle these bullies. Because I had enough at one point and I hit one of them with the chair. You know, back then you had plastic chairs in the classroom. So I hit one of them with the chair. and my mom said but well he's getting bullied and you're aware of all this stuff and you're aware of everything they've been through why are you not giving them counseling why are you not doing this and they said all right cool rosca can go home for you know for a while once we tackle these kids and then he can come back in because if we move them lot out of school their parents are going to kick off it's going to be an upscale and my mom's like that's not fair and i don't thing that was fair at all, Dodge.

18:02You know what I mean? So I ended up being at home and whilst I was staying at home, I'm by myself, you know, I'm by myself, my sister in school and all of this stuff. My dad's working. It's just me and my mom and my mom's like, go and kick your ball outside. I'm not going to just let you sit here and not do nothing. And that's when things took a turn for me. How do things take a turn and how quickly did it all happen? Well, I couldn't speak. By then I knew how to say thanks and I used to say funks instead of thanks and stuff like that. So by that time I knew how to go to the shop and ask for staff or this because we had a shop right across from us from the house.

18:44um but there was this group of older children sorry there was this group of older children that always used to hang around our side because there was this cage and um i didn't know who there was but one day they just said oh little man kick us your ball and i kicked my ball and then it was like oh yeah come chill with us and then they had girls there and the girls would pull my cheeks and say you're cute and all of this stuff and they became like a family to me they became like they was teaching me English, teaching me how to speak properly. And by the end when summer really kicked in and I'll say, oh, mom, can I go and play out?

19:21Because I wanted to go and hang out with them because I felt safe because I didn't have that sense of belonging in school. Yeah. You know, I've always wanted to feel part of like I belong somewhere and I didn't get that in school. So when these older kids from the state that I used to live in Plumstead show me that love, I felt, oh, these are older kids. And why couldn't this, why couldn't, you know, children in school show me the same love? So I latched onto that and it became, anytime I could go and play out and I knew there was there and I saw them out of the window, I said, oh, mom, can I go and play out?

19:54And then I'll just go and hang around with them. So when summer kicked in, didn't start straight away, halfway through summer, they'll be like, Roscoe, come here, look. I take this to that car and I'll take it to the car. and I didn't know where it was dodged. Do you know what I mean? At the time, I'm young, I don't know what's happening. I'm taking things to cars, I'm hanging around with them, they're buying me chicken and chips, you know. And as time went on, and, you know, I started secondary school and stuff, they'll pick me up from school, make sure no one mess with me, and then they'll bring me back to, I won't even get a bus, they'll bring me back with them.

20:32Or sometimes a couple of them will get a bus back or whatever, and it wasn't all the time. You know, I'm not going to say it was all the time, but sometimes they'll come and make sure that no one messed with me and stuff like that. So I felt like protected, you know, especially coming from a wall-torn country and seeing bloodshed everywhere and trying to settle in a new country and you're getting picked on at school. You've got no friends. You're just at home with your sisters. And can't speak the language. And you can't speak the language. Do you know what I mean? So I really latched on to them boys.

21:03I only find out later what I was doing and what they was asking me to do. But then it was too late. I found a sense of belonging. They used to buy me trainers. I used to stash them outside so my mum couldn't see them. And I'll wear my brand new trainers to school because my mum couldn't afford anything. And she used to get me like deodoras and stuff like that. And people make fun of me at school and stuff like that. So, yeah. How quickly did it escalate to getting involved in drugs and arms? It escalated when I was in, when things weren't good for me at home. That's when it escalated. Weren't things weren't good for you at home?

21:43Yeah, yeah, yeah. What, with your mum and dad or? Just with my dad, like things weren't really good with my dad at home. So he was kind, you know, he went through his own trauma, you know, in them places that, you know, whatever. Like, because my dad went to boarding school and stuff as well. So he went through his own traumas and stuff like that. So on top of what he had to deal with coming from Congo and stuff like that, I felt like he didn't have the courage to deal with a lot of his own personal stuff so then he'll be able to deal with his children and look after them the way that he needed to do and be a father.

22:21So African culture, you know, you smack your children and do this and that. And it didn't work for me. That didn't work for me. and yeah home wasn't pleasant for me so I've never really had a home from the age of 12 you know and today you're how old are you today I'm just gonna turn 32 soon so I've never really had a home from the age of 12 you know so um um yeah I left home from the age from a young age and or even I haven't had a proper home to the age of five yeah from the age of five you're right yeah i try to stay away from that yeah yeah from the age of five i've always moved from different places to different places and um i'm now getting to the point where i'm now starting to feel like okay cool so you're building your own now you're doing for you and you're building something for yourself you know how quickly did it escalate with the drugs what sort of drugs were you serving up were you personally serving up drugs yourself or were you just the middle man i was I was just delivering at the time.

23:22And every now and then I would get like bags of weed and sell like 10 bags at school or something like that, you know, I'll get like five of them or six of them and I have to give them like£40 and I keep£20, you know. And back then that was good money when you're young, you know, and you're buying chicken and chips. I'm giving my, I'll stack up as much money as I can and I'll give my sisters money for school and make them get chicken and chips after school and stuff like that. So I felt like I was doing what I could for my sisters on top of what my parents couldn't do, you know, so. Did you start to rebel against your parents?

23:58No, I never, I never did rebel. I feel like I got pushed, I got pushed to, to just exit the family home at a young age. Mainly, like I said, my dad was, you know, he had his own troubles, you know. So I, I just got pushed that way. And by then I started suffering with PTSD, having flashbacks and stuff. So I'll come back from secondary school and I'll be, I had this small room, I had the smallest room in the house and I was grateful for it because I had my own space and all my sisters shared. And then my mum and dad had one room. And then in, so I moved from Plumstead to Woolwich Common and Woolwich Common was only down the road, literally five minutes from where I was living.

24:44and um tough tough place by the way willish common yeah willish common was rough yeah right it was predominantly run by somalians yeah you know and they had it boxed yeah you know so um so i made friends with a guy that lived in one of the blocks there um and but he was from he was hanging around with people from charlton yeah and unaware to me i didn't know that charlton and willich had problems at the time and so my friend will tell me oh yeah come let's go to Charlton and hang around with my boys so he introduced me to all the Charlton lot and then I started hanging around with them and you know they they they looked after me man there was you know we became like a little brotherhood and we all looked after each other and whatever and they took me in straight away you know they took a liking to me and I extremely became close with um another guy called mask or he was in the well and and i used to at night time when i'm going through my you know um ptsd i'll climb out the window and just jump down and then i'll find a block that's open and i'll go in the block and sleep in it till like the morning and i'll go back before my dad wakes up because i'll be he'll literally go nuts and i'll climb back through the window and us and then my sister one of my a couple of my sisters knew like they noticed the pattern yeah and one of them pulled me up and was like ross i know you climb out and then you go and do but we need to talk about it and so i'll go back and and chill and get ready for school then after school i'll quickly go to charlton and then rush home so i don't get in trouble um and yeah that just became the norm for a while and in charlton it was i wasn't even dealing or doing anything we're just hanging around and just getting in trouble.

26:39And cause I, cause I then became part of that group. So now going back to Woolwich Common, and they've now found that I'm part of, you know, that group. They're now turning up outside my house, smashing up my windows. They did? Yeah, yeah. Smashing up my windows, you know, chasing me around. And after that, I literally had to go the back way and climb through the wall to get into my house every time. And I just used to think, but I didn't realize what was going on at first. I was like, but wait a minute. Like, I'm just, I'm just hanging around with them. Like, I don't know what's happening here right now.

27:14Then it just got too much and I got rushed a few times and I was like, okay, cool. Then my attitude started changing because I'm like, from getting bullied in school, like, and I'm just trying to fit in somewhere. I'm just trying to belong. I'm not even trying to bring any drama to anyone. Then I was like, all right, cool. So usually I want to see badness. You don't know where I just come from. And I just started channeling that. And I'm just like, okay, so if you don't want to take it there, I want to take it 10 times further. So I started, even if I catch one of them by myself, I'm doing the most.

27:55I'm going full, full in than what they're doing. And that just became my normal. I'm like, actually, I'm not having this from anyone no more. You're not coming around and smashing my windows. You're not smashing my dad's car just because we live in this area and I hang around with them a lot. I didn't know you a lot had problems. It's not my fault that, you know, I met someone that lives in one of the blocks and he hangs around with them and I've not clicked with any of you a lot and I don't want to click with any of you a lot because I can see what you a lot are doing, you know. So, yeah, so I just started taking it 10 steps further than they will take it.

28:29Give me an example. for example I got rushed one time and I got rushed really badly so I said alright cool when you got rushed give an example of being rushed by how many people it was by about six or eight of them they beat me quite badly and either they smashed me with a bottle when I went back home and I was bleeding and I took a hospital and then I told a couple of my friends from Charlton and we came back around the night time and we literally found a couple of them outside the shop and we literally beat the hell out of them. I wasn't, I'm not proud of it now, but I wanted to make, I just wanted to be left alone.

29:09Yeah. And I was getting pushed way too far, you know? So then I just started retaliating, retaliating, you know, then it just became a massive thing. They'll come outside my house, break my windows, smash my windows, police will turn up. The PCSO from the era, like, you know, the neighborhood police, they turn up at my house and say, these lot really like they're after Roscoe, like yous lot got to move, you know. Then my mum and dad decided to move to North London, and I didn't want to go with them because I was never at home anyway. But by then I used to go and hang, because like I said, there was problems at home.

29:47And for me, home didn't feel safe. On top of me not feeling safe moving to the UK, my home wasn't safe for me. so therefore I will leave and like I said I'll climb out a window I'll go to my friend who lived by Woolwich's dockyard and I'll stay with him and then one time my dad find out where I was and he came and physically dragged me out of the house and took me back and wherever you know did your dad ever give you a beating um yeah but so yeah i will literally there was no win for you here right now what i'm listening like your old man's gonna give you a beating got all these lads after you're chasing every time you want a relaxing day you're looking over your shoulder just to get um you're at home someone smashing your house in smashing your dad's car in yeah what we wanted was a quiet life yeah when you got how old are you got to the point when you flick the switch again you know what bring it on now i've had enough must have been turning about 13 okay just still young yeah but you you were game yeah that's when i just had nothing to lose i was like you know what i'm not having it anymore so it's it's game on okay then on yeah and um how did that escalate over the the years before you got put put in prison um so from from having trouble with the woolwich lot because i'm now involved with the charter yeah then now i'm then having problems with the thames mead lot you lived in thames mead because they've also got a problem with the charter lot so it's all just going on it's all you know postcode wars going on postcode wars and i'm just like fuck you know what have I landed myself into here but then you know out you know you have to be loyal to the people that you're hanging around with and then you also have to be loyal to yourself you know so imagine me going back to Woolwich Common I have to dodge the Thames Mead lot that's coming out at night time looking for the Charlton lot I have to dodge the Woolwich Common ones I have to go back late at night and navigate through and then climb through my window so no one sees me and stuff like that.

31:57Like it was just stressful. It was very stressful. And I just kept thinking to myself, okay, I'm at home and home is rubbish and this and that. And I'm just trying to cut through. I just want a life. So that's when the switch really kicked off me. Cause I'm just like, you know what? I I'm trying to def I'm, I'm defending myself against all of you guys. I've don't want this problems, but you've pushed me so far to the point where I'm not, I've got nothing to lose. You know, then I left home, went into care. then I'm into, I'm back to Plumstead now and I'm in with like my foster family and they see me there as well.

32:33Some people see me there from Thamesmead and they're chasing me and stuff like that. And while you're your foster family. Yeah. Then I'm just like, you know what, I've ran away from foster home. So now I'm just homeless and I'm sofa surfing, you know, from house to house. So I'll stay with my friend Llewellyn and mask her and stay at his house. And And sometimes, you know, bless his mom, like she looked after me and she would take care of me. But sometimes she'd be like, but Roscoe can't stay. He's got his parents, him to go back home. And Llewellyn had a car outside his house. And he wouldn't even have known this till later on, you know.

33:10But sometimes I'll sleep in that car, you know. And then I'll walk to wherever I need to walk to in the morning and get a shower or whatever and then just crack on with life. So yeah. Bloody hell, mate. Yeah. What did you do for a pound note then? I hustle and bustle. Like, you know, I will, you know, I'll steal from shops, you know. Back then, you know, we'll go into like Sports Direct and steal trainers and sell them. And, you know, like I said, I'll be giving like, I'll go to one of my, like the elders, it would give me like 80 pound worth of weed, you know, after giving back that 50 pound and I keep the rest and you know, so that's how I was surviving when I was younger.

33:58And then from then, then something happened with my friends from Charlton. I had something in the house and they, they kind of like robbed me for it. And what was it? It was just like, you know, drugs and money and stuff like that. And it wasn't all of them, but it was just a couple of individuals. And then my friend, Mars could find that, and he was so upset. And he literally had like a fight with one of them on my behalf. Because for some reason, he always looked after me. He always had a soft spot for me. And he's, and he, because I wasn't, I was, I was rowdy, but I wasn't, I wasn't a fighter.

34:43Like now I can hold my own because I, you know, I train, I do all the things not to fight people, but just for my own personal development and my mental health, you know, to keep my head in check. So I train a lot. You know, I've done Muay Thai in the past when I came home and stuff like that. And, you know, I just train, I just do circuits and stuff like that. So Marska stepped in for me and he was like, no, you're not fighting him. I want to fight him for you. And he beat the shit out of him and said, don't ever do that to Roscoe again. was like that's one of us like doesn't do anything to me like why would you do that and um then from then i i had connections in lewisham and so i was like you's a lot of rubbish man like i can't believe you've done that for me especially you know i'm always a front at the front of everything when there's people i'll be at the front trying to defend you's law and you know so i moved down to Lewisham and just started hanging around with the Lewisham lot.

35:40And because the Lewisham lot knew of my reputation from Charlton, I just literally went from here to there. Like the levels just went up, you know. And in Lewisham, yeah, like it was even more, the levels down there was nothing compared to where it was down there. Like down there they looked after you. Down there they made sure you never went without. Down there they made sure that you had somewhere to stay you know and stuff like that so yeah I was well looked after when I moved down to Lewisham and you know I started hanging around with the Lewisham lot you know um Lewisham's a borough so I hanged around in Deptford then I hanged around with you know the elders from like like New Cross like ghetto and stuff like that so yeah I just went up the the ranks there very quickly up you know i just i was like i just need to survive so i just proved my worth yeah you know i done i done what i could to survive you know and just proved my worth to them and they was all right cool here you go you're you literally like you know you're like third in command or whatever you know you're there so yeah what was the period before the day that you actually got nicked was there anything else leading up to that before you actually got Nick that day?

36:55Before that dodge, whilst I was in Lewisham from like 14 to 16 in a period of two years, like it was chaotic, man. I got stabbed 14 times. I survived that. I was in a coma. Then I got stabbed again coming outside of the courtroom by some lads. They thought I was, I belong, because one of them recognized me. They was from Camberwell and like oh bruv you chill with all like the peckham lot now when they usually are linked up with the peckham lot and then i got stabbed um then i got stabbed again once after that you know and all together 14 15 16 17 times i've been stabbed so and i survived every single one of them you know by the grace of you know whatever high powers up there that looks after me and that's kept me on kept me alive all this time when you're getting stabbed and all this is going on around you are you carrying yourself no I wasn't it go to a point actually honestly I had to at some point I was carrying because I had to because of the areas that I was going into you know so I had to be around and I was around people that carried normal like it was normal for them you know whatever they carried it was normal for them to do that because they had serious problems you know so I'm not going to sit here and lie to you.

38:18Yes, there was times where I carried certain things which I shouldn't have carried. But yet again, going into it, trying to survive, looking for a sense of belonging, not having a home, not having someone stable to call my home. I had to just do whatever I had to survive, you know. A dangerous man, a dangerous man when you've got nothing to lose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What sort of stuff would you carry? I carry knives and stuff and sometimes you know we'll have shooters and stuff around us it's normal you know it was normal back then and they used to come in by the they used to come in by you know we'll lose one we'll get we'll get three more yeah you know and you know I'll go out with the elders and I'll be the main guy you know there looking after them and you know and making sure everyone's alright what was that feeling like for you building your reputation up in a new manner at that time and you're getting a little bit older and you had a bit more money I wouldn't say I had money but I had I wouldn't say I didn't really have that much money but I had what I had was the rep and that carried me through so it felt empowering To be honest with you, it felt really empowering knowing that, all right, no one's messing with me anymore.

39:46People think twice before even approaching me because now people know that actually this guy stands for something. All them bullies that used to bully me in school, I bumped into most of them and they used to tremble in front of me. And I used to be like, okay. And do you know what I did, Dodge, when I bumped into them? I let them go. Didn't do nothing to them. because I wasn't that person anyway, you know, and I wasn't there to cause. I've always defended myself. So I've always been like, okay, you want to take it down, I want to take it 10 steps further. You don't know where I've just come from.

40:22You just think you're bad. I've just come from little child walking around with like Ks and stuff. You just like babies, like you don't know what you're doing over there. Like you think this is all, you know, so I just started showing them that I've got a different mentality to use. lot you know and if you want to take it i want to take it there so when i saw these bullies and people that done things to me i remember seeing um memet and lewisham mcdonald's you know and i'm i'm with all my guys and they they they move on my say so i say go they go yeah you know i mean so i've seen the kid and i'm just looking i mean he's recognized me and he's shitting himself i just went into the desk and got my food and i just looked him i just winked i just said go and that was it.

41:06Fair play. Literally. Fair play. Yeah. What was that feeling like when you got nicked and what was that feeling like when you were in court and they said you were going to go to prison indefinitely?

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43:20guys.

43:25I cried when I got back downstairs. When I got arrested, so I was going to deliver something, which was a firearm. And so I was in Greenwich. At Weatherspoons in Greenwich, I went to see someone and then I got a taxi and there's a dual carriageway that goes round. and then I was going back towards like, I was going back towards Catford, so I have to go around it. I remember getting in the taxi and this taxi's picked me up. As soon as I go in a taxi, I felt funny. You know, when you get that butterfly feeling, but you don't know what's going on. Now I know what that feeling is. I follow it all the time.

44:08Always believe you, girl. Yeah, I follow it all the time. So I go in a taxi. As soon as we took the bend, helicopters everything just appeared out of nowhere when i mean i've never seen so much police like this in my life there was they blocked off the whole strip for me everywhere police everywhere ruska get out of the car i'm thinking what get out of the car ruska and then by then there was this trident officer and i'll get to him in a bit as well you know there was this trident officer that knew of me because i by then i've been arrested for stupid stuff you know like a fray and all of this stuff fighting and um suspect suspicion of attempted this suspicion of a shooting here or there and it was never me but people always threw me in uh in the mix even you know and i just like because my name was so popular rosca so everyone always threw me in the mix and sometimes whatever happened happened but most of the time i was always thrown in the mix you know so when uh he knocked on the door bless him you know he's like he knocked on the door he's like roscoe get out of the car or they're gonna shoot you i don't want you to die we've we've spoken enough time i don't think you're a bad kid at all you know i've i've seen your file i've seen certain things about your history get out of the car please and i and he moved away from the car and um i pushed the firearm underneath the the passenger seat because i sat behind and um put my hand my hand up but it tased me they shot me anyway with a taser um and i was on the floor blacked out then i remember waking up i mean i'm in coughs in the back of the car and I'm just thinking, fuck.

45:59And by then, I just had my child, you know. He's now just started crawling. And I remember just thinking, oh, fuck, I've let him down. You know, I've let him down in, you know, trying to survive, earn a little bit of money to provide for him. I'm just, I'm a young dad. I'm 16 at the time, Dodge. I'm just, I'm turning 17. That, like, when I got arrested, I was just turning 17, you know. and I was thinking oh man like I've just let down my son you know and I got to the station and I rang the mother of my child and I was like I've been arrested and I'm now in you know I'm in Lewishan police station and I've been arrested for this and I remember she was just crying you know she was crying and yeah then I went to court and then you know I was on Raman and they told me you're going to prison on remand i went to remand and at the first day of me walking through induction some guy spotted me i didn't even know there was in i didn't even know who there was at the time he just come behind me and snake me and punch me slightly kind of like knocked me out so i fainted a little bit i was dazed i'm trying to look i'm trying to see but it's so blurry i can't see anything and the guards have come and jumped on me as well and i haven't done anything and allow your gang you're going back to your cell and I'm like, I've not done anything.

47:26Later on, I find out who the guy was and he belonged to someone that I had problems with, you know, and cause by then I had a reputation and they wanted to score points, you know, so Roscoe's now in jail, like this is where we can get him. He's not vulnerable, he's not on the road no more. And then I was in induction and then one of my friends found out I was there in induction and he's come knocking on my door. He's like, what happened? But I said, oh, my man just, he's like, don't worry about it. We saw it out in the morning. Don't worry about it. So in the morning I got put behind my door and he dealt with it for me on my behalf.

48:01So he gave him a good hiding. Yeah. And then from then I went back to court. I waited a long time. I was in Cookham Wood for a bit. It was like a YOY. And then after that I went back for that thing and then I got sentenced after my trial. And I remember getting sentence, getting this indeterminate sentence. I didn't even know what indeterminant was. I'm like, what the hell is in... And my solicitor at the time, Kirstie, she's saying to me, like indeterminant means that, you know, you're... it's up to them when you come home. Bloody hell. So I'm like, what, do I do four years and then come home?

48:46She's like, you do four years and the barrister is like, you do four years but then you have to apply for parole. And then I'm like, but what is this sentence? to like originally it was introduced for like sex offenders and violent like serious violent offenders but being who you are and coming from where you come from and the areas you come from they've now they've now decided any person who's involved in gangs or gang cultures i just give them that and i later understood how the system worked for me to be in jail for a certain amount of years or even a year that's a lot of money for them yeah you know so this thing that introduced was for whatever reason which has now been abolished thank thank god it's now been abolished but there's still a lot of people in prison who are there's a guy in in prison that attempted to steal a cigarette how how do you explain to a mom that that person is still in jail 16 years later from trying to from attempted to steal a cigarette from where from a shop and the police turned up and he got arrested just like out of the blue like the police turned up and he got arrested there's other people in there that's meant to do a year on IPP two years on IPP and they're still in prison to this day you know it's now been abolished and when you the IPP when you came home you still had to be on life license so you had to go to probation on life license You had to turn up to probation every two months.

50:19Luckily for me, I had an amazing probation officer. She's the one that came in and helped me turn my life around and made me go to a therapeutic gel to do therapy because she recognized everything that I've been through to that point. And she's like, listen, this is not you. It's deeper than you. You're suffering with some serious post-traumatic stress disorder, trying to fit in. Why don't you go to a gel that focuses on therapy, you do therapy and I bet you anything you're going to thank me for it later and then we're going to get you home I'm going to get you home but is that what she used to say was that yeah she said Diane that's if she amazing yeah massive like she's an amazing woman how long were you on remand for I was on remand for a year okay and how long did you do in total in prison I'd done just shy off 10 years altogether from from from 17 so I'd done shy off yeah just shy off 10 years How many prisons did you do?

51:16I've done about 15 gels And every single Like when I was doing the normal gels Up until going to Grendon Which is a therapeutic gel And it's Oh man Grendon's a mad one It's mad And remember I'm in there Just for possession of Firearm But you've got people in there As you know You know about Grendon You've got people in there That are sitting there For some serious stuff Serious stuff And I'm looking at them And we're all in this Obviously you've got the Avalwing for the people that do things to, you know, children and stuff that they don't cross path with us. But then, would you know what they've done?

51:52They threw a few of them in the groups to see how you reacted. So I've got someone opposite me that's talking about - Stuff they go up to. Stuff they go up to and - You don't want to hear it. And children and stuff. And I'm looking at him like, bro, are you for real? Like - And every single beam of me wants to get up and do something to him or do something. And I'm just like, okay, cool. You're not here for that. You know, you're here to better yourself. You're here to work on yourself, you know, and it got to a point where they didn't really have them people in the groups no more, you know. But did you feel relief when you got put away to get off the street?

52:28Yeah. Okay. I did. Eventually I did. When I got to Grendon, I did. When I got, when I got to Belmarsh, I did. Okay. Okay. So when I got to Belmarsh, when I got transferred from... What was your first prison? My first prison was Cookham Wood. Then it was Warren Hill, then Redding, then Norwich, then Dorchester, then Winchester. The list goes on. Carry on. Then Dorchester, Winchester, then back to Dorchester, then back to Redding, then Portland. And that's when I met my best friend, P. He's my rock. He should have been there today. He would tell you stories himself. But yeah, so then Portland, then Portland to ISIS, ISIS to Belmarsh, then Belmarsh to Samara.

53:25I can't remember. There's loads of them. Then the last one was Grendon. Yeah. What was the most, what was the toughest one out of all those prisons for you? Grendon. Okay. The other ones was that, do you know what? ISIS from Portland, like Portland, the little gels that I went to, like the wire wires, there was obviously you bump into people, you have fights and, you know, but then people just started leaving me alone because they'll realize that I had people in a gel. Yeah. So they're like, just leave him alone. For me, the toughest gels was ISIS. H &P ISIS. Where's that? So you've got HMP Thameside, then HMP ISIS is there.

54:06They're all next to each other. Then you've got Belmarsh. So it's all like a triangle thing. And for me, I touched into ISIS and went through reception, me and my friend. because so I got I got shipped out of Portland because one of the one of the one of the governors or I can't remember I think he was a governor but it was it was higher up I think he walked in he walked in on me and his missus you're joking go on so I it was like early hours in the morning yeah early hours in the morning And then they just come and we had, we had our wing box, like the gov, like the SO, cause that's what they're called the higher officer.

54:58They're called SO. He used to be like to, I remember there was a friend that we had called Spray that came to the jail and he must have thought it was me and P and my other brother, H Harrison. And because we, like the govs will get us to like slightly run the wing a little bit forward and make sure that no one, because we was on Survery and the Survery boys get all the privileges and stuff. We stay out late and in, in, in Portland, you had big sales where you can share and the sales was massive. So we got given the top sales, massive sales. And what came with that, it was that you's not look after the wing for us, make sure no one gets in trouble, make sure you control it.

55:35And there's not too much bullshit going on. Yeah. So that SO used to be like to other people, do you think you're Russ God? Do you think you're, I dare you put your hands up now, beat you up and put you on the floor. Like they used to bad up everyone else and they used to leave us alone. So he came early morning and knocked on the door with loads of guards and like, Russ, I'm sorry, you have to go. I'm like, what is it? Then he whispered in my ear, like my man saw you with da, da, da, da, da. And he can't make a big deal over it, but you have to go. So I was like, all right, all right. And I remember that, like, I remember, like, that was, like, the first time, like, after being in jail for so long.

56:12And I didn't know, like, what she was doing at the time. But slightly, like, she was, she kind of, like, groomed me in a bit, like, because that's what she was doing with everyone else that we found out later. So she used to, like, was meant to do, like, counseling sessions and different things. And then she, you know, she'll start touching your leg. And obviously you're young, you're in jail, you don't really know what's happening. and obviously you're a man as well at the same time, you know, and a woman's touching you like that in jail. You're like, all right, cool. And then before you know it, you're getting aroused and you start going back and seeing her even more.

56:48And then, you know, I saw her like the second time I must have gone back to her. That's when, you know, she gave me a little, yeah, a little bit of neck as we like to call it. Okay. Yeah. And that was the SO's missus. It wasn't the SOS missus It was one of the higher Higher ups missus Yeah Yeah So I remember like He walked in On you And she quickly got up And I was like What the fuck And I was like Fuck you set me up You have And now I'm just gonna get moved And shipped And I just knew it Then I just He didn't even say enough And he just looked at her Like he just knew She was just He just knew she was She was at it Yeah You know what I mean And then things happen in jail You know It happens all the time You know And so yeah I got I got shipped out of there and I remember telling my probation this this this story and she'll just laugh and she'll yeah don't don't get yourself involved in that anyway don't let any what was her name I can't say I can't remember yeah I don't I don't want to say I don't want to put into it yeah it was all she's also looked after a lot of lads there oh yeah she's definitely looked after a lot of like because my mate who I was sharing a cell with later on he told me oh bro don't worry i got i got i got i got i got blessed too bro after so many years it felt amazing yeah you know and he what man you know especially when you're in the environment even though at first i used to look and think oh man man you're you know you give in after a while you know you're like all right cool whatever man so you know a little bit of quick neck and you know and i remember walking up to the landing and my friend p was out and i was like and i was like bro look all of this on my freaking trousers like and he's like bro she gave you neck i was like yeah she gave me neck he's like no i've got to get neck myself so it was like she became like the the woman that you know will will give the the higher up people yeah you know she liked a little bad boy i think yeah she'll look after you did you get when you're in there did you know that you're gonna have to do 10 years at any point um i didn't know i was gonna have to do 10 years I thought, okay, I'll do my four years.

59:01I'll apply for parole. But what I didn't know is when you're in jail and you get yourself in a little bit above her because they're putting you in prisons where, like I said, when I touched down in ISIS, I had half the jail on me, Dodge. On you? I had half the jail on me because I was Roscoe. Okay. And my reputation was what it was. And I had half of the jail on me that was part of other people because people make alliances, right? so I remember pushing my trolley and I'm getting brought from I can't remember there was one side and another side and I'm going to Meridian that's it I'm going to Meridian pushing my trolley me and my friend P and he's going on another wing and I'm going on another wing and out of nowhere some lads have just come boom and there's loads of them the bell's going off guards are coming out and I'm looking at all of them and I'm thinking okay alright cool I know what I have to do let's go and make my shifts do what i need to do and make sure i get myself right but what happened was the tables got flipped immediately so i went to i went to a wing with my friend um one of my friend called um boost from peckham and bless him and he tried his best to look after me man he's a like we've always had a good rapport me and even though he's from peckham like we've always got on And to this day, we've got an amazing report, you know?

1:00:22So I'm on the wing and my bredrin tiny boots is on the same wing, but they've got word out to the other wing that I'm there and they're trying to get me hot watered with sugar or stabbed by their little affiliates there. So I've come out again and this kid from West London that got older from them tried to snake me again. The govs have come, bloody, bloody, blah. I've gone back into my cell. Boosty's come knocking my door. They're like, what happened? What's up? I'm like, da-da-da. He's like, don't worry. Cool. Saying that. Bloody, bloody, blah. So he's tried to squash it because he understood what IPP was at the time.

1:01:01And he was trying his best because he's an amazing artist. And that's who got me into rapping and stuff like that. It was them lot and also my other friends. So he knew where he was and he was trying to keep his head down to go home. And I kind of understood him. Later on, I understood why, why he just, you know, he didn't get involved in certain things. He just kept him, like he was around and he was, he's a household name, but he kept his bredgings, handled wherever he needed, and he just focused on getting out. Getting out. So, so I left that, so I went to the gym. I was able to go to the gym after a while because the govs weren't letting me out.

1:01:40So they say like, every time you come out of your cell, someone's trying it on you and your name just keeps popping up in the gel. so I went to the gym and I'm training in the gym but I'm very wary and by myself you know my friend P he's on a different wing um so we're not you know I can only see him sometimes in the gym or if we cross path or anything so I'm in a gym then I just hear hey Ross I'm thinking oh no it's gonna go off again I've turned around and I've seen my friend um Kipper from from Stockwell you know and he's got an army with him he's like ross what these lot think they can mess with you i'm like yeah he's like bro you're coming to my wing tomorrow i'm gonna get the gloves to move you to my wing and we're just gonna anyone that we see that even looked you wrong on free flow we are going to annihilate every single one of them and make examples out of them so kips had an army and kips had the gel like he he had the gel in a way you know everyone knew who kipper was and everyone knew what his set was about and he was connected with everyone.

1:02:45So the Gov, Kippa got me moved in with him. I moved downstairs for a bit with another guy till he had space and his sailmate was going home. Then I moved in with Kippa and me and Kippa have known each other since I was young. Our parents, like he's nine and then like we, I, I, I met Kippa like Kingdom Hall because my parents was the other witnesses. So when I was younger, I used to go to Kingdom Hall. and you know there'll be blazers in a corridor and stuff I don't know if his parents was there but that's why I met him you know so I don't know who in his family brought him there but me and him would be outside in the corridors like going through pockets and being naughty and being like oh fuck forget this man this is all rubbish we're not interested in this and he knew of me as well like obviously we went ways and he became who he became in this area and he was a household name and I became who I became.

1:03:42So us linking up in jail again and meeting up with each other, like it was like, oh my God, after all these years and I'm going through so much trouble in there, you're coming to my rescue. And he's like, bro, like you're my brother, like anytime. So he moved me to his wing and from then on, we had the whole jail box, you know, then my brethren P, he had his wing box and he's now moved on to my wing and he's still got that other wing box. So, and then I then became friends with some West London lot and we, and it just became all one. And like, it goes to the point where. The governor from ISIS will come down and get me and Kippa onto the stairs when everyone's locked up and he'll be like, bros, listen, yous lot are doing too much.

1:04:31You've got everything. I know you've got phones. I know you've got this. I know you've got that. I know you've got this. But listen, what I want to do is there's too much happening. So I want to give yous lot freedom. You can have a bit of different food or different things that you want and just keep everything kind of wraps for me. you know i mean and yeah we we was good you know and and again there'll be staff coming to the window that love bad boys and they want to interact with us at night time and flash their boobies and all of that stuff and having a laugh with them and they're like oh my god these lot so it became a became a bit bearable for me but you know and i i everyone left me alone you know so anytime there was a problem you know it would just get handled i remember one time this was funny this was the most funniest thing ever because if you saw it on camera you'll be like oh my god what's happening in this jail i've gone to surgery and there was this guy that just came in and i can't remember what happened with him or something called he was part of something in my past or something him like an idiot not knowing what how the order of the jail is he's tried to snake me from behind but i've clocked it coming and i've moved where he grazed my head dodge everyone was that when i mean the whole landing swarmed onto this one guy i felt so sorry for him that even though he was attacking me trying to attack me i told i to like literally tell everyone to leave him to the point where I nearly jumped on top of him so they don't kill him.

1:06:12Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because my heart, that's not me anyway. Do you know what I mean? Like I've never been, if someone, if someone deserves a hiding, they deserve a hiding in there because they've done something bad. But if it's like, if it's too much now and I'm just like, oh guys, come on. Like it's, do you know what I mean? Like it doesn't deserve that. So he got a hiding anyway and he got moved wings. Like it was, it was horrible for him, but it didn't make me feel good. Yeah. It made me feel horrible, you know, and I was like, oh, man, you could have asked me for one-on-one. I would have got in a cell with you and we could have gone at it because I could have taken him on.

1:06:47It wasn't nothing special, but he wanted to score a point and tell his people. I said, oh, I saw Rossin, you know what I mean? So I want to roll back a bit. When you got nicked and you end up doing 10 years in prison, you actually got nicked with a firearm. What went on before that? there must have been other stuff that you were getting nicked for where the old girl going, man, we've got to put him away because he's, he's loose. There was a lot of suspicion. Yeah. Like something will happen. Like I said, Rosca's name will get thrown into the hat. So for example. Like attempted murders or this or that, you know, my name will get thrown into the hat.

1:07:26You know, Rosca, Rosca, Rosca, Rosca, Rosca, Rosca, Rosca. It's like I was like the scapegoat. You know what I mean? like and yeah man it's that's that's literally it and i remember like any i remember any house that was at dodge kept getting booted off by trident and i remember the trident officer sitting me down that you know knocked on the door and he sat me down once and he said i don't believe this is all you roscoe like i generally don't like i know it's not all you you know i know that people are throwing your name in a hat whenever they can and bloody, bloody, blah. And that sometimes I, you know, I know you're getting in things and whatever, and I can't prove it, but certain things I generally know it's not you, but because you've got such a reputation at the minute, everyone's throwing your name into the, into the mix, you know, and we, we do our research and we know it's not you, but then at that time there was make an example anyway, you know, there was under pressure from the public powers above to make an example.

1:08:30And unfortunately, I was one of them people because I became so active and that became a life of me surviving and depending on it and whatever. So I latched on to even more and I became one of the examples to be made. So when they finally got me, they made an example out of me. I should have got a three-year sentence for my charge. I should have been in for three years. Yes, I'm going to say. But, and I was 17 at the time as well, but they waited and waited and waited till I turned 18 and sentenced me. So from 5 to 18, it's been chaos. Real chaos, yeah. Real chaos. And then from 18 to 28, in prison was chaos, but you felt safer in there.

1:09:20I went away when I was 17. So from like, from 17 till I came home when I was about coming back, I came on like 2018. I must have been about, I can't remember what I was, but, 27? Yeah, chaos. 17 to 27. Chaos. Chaos. In prison. Yeah. But the last bit of my sentence was fine. Yeah. You know, because that's when, you know, Diane's coming and Diane's actually sitting me down with another officer as well from Belmarsh, Chloe, bless her, lovely, she was tiny. and I used to look at when people are firing I'm like Chloe you're gonna get hurt you know she was tiny but she used to she knew me because she lived in Woolwich Common and I kind of like knew who she was and she she sat me down one time because she was the violence reduction rep in like woman in prison and she sat me down and said Rosco like I'm begging you to just like I've seen your paperwork Like she was one of the first people to say to me, I've finally like read and understand you and understand why you, when you say to me, Miss, I'm not doing nothing.

1:10:35Like, look, I'm just walking in a jail and someone comes from behind me and tries to attack me and scores point. And she's like, okay, like you need to go to a therapeutic jail. So when I got shipped to Belmarsh, she went to Belmarsh before me. So when I got shipped to Belmarsh, she was in Belmarsh. So the minute she found out I was in Belmarsh, she came to me and she sat me down and said, do you know what we're going to do? We're going to fob up your ex outside probation officer because they're not really dealing with you, correct? This is what I want you to do and I'm going to bring someone new in to manage you.

1:11:08And then that's when she brought Diane in. And Diane and her sat down with an amazing plan and they sat me down in Belmarsh and it was like, Roscoe, look, you've got serious trauma that you need to deal with. The school didn't deal with it. When you was at school, you got made to go back and at one time, Dodge, the teacher from my school, you wrote to me not too long ago on my Instagram and saying, you're doing amazing. I'm so proud of you. I'm proud of the man that you've become. He used to teach me in the basement at school because I used to get bullied so badly at school. And I couldn't be in a classroom because I couldn't handle it.

1:11:44So he used to take me down and teach me English. You know, and he now messages me and says how proud he is of me because he's seen my music, my interviews and stuff like that. And he's amazingly proud of me. He's saying, isn't it funny how you turn it around? Funny enough, my arresting officer, which I can show you in my phone, long paragraph messages on Instagram. I've always known you was going to be this person. But unfortunately, you had to learn the hard way for you to now get back onto your purpose because I've never been this person, Dodge. My purpose has always been higher. Do you know what I mean?

1:12:17My purpose has always been higher. I've always aimed higher from a child. But unfortunately, for everything I went through, just kind of turned me into a little savage, man. Yeah. For that duration of my life. This is a powerful story, Roscoe. This is a really powerful story. Yeah. When you came out of prison, what was your mindset? I need to stick on this path. And now I've refound myself again, because in Grendon, they started doing a thing called, a project with Cambridge University, which was called Learning Together. And that's how I met my friend Jack, who helped me massively with that confidence.

1:13:02And my other friend, you know, I had a great, in Grendon, I had a great group of people that believed in me, even like my friend Chris and Moses. Like, bro, I'm not going to lie to you. Like there'll be times when I cried in front of them too, you know, I'll cry in front of Chris or cry in front of Moses. Like, especially when I got knocked back after like doing therapy for like three years. I remember cause B wing, we asked the governor to give us studio equipment. It was unheard of in Grendon. Like they never had studio, but they'll do like events where you can speak. They'll have like Sir Lenny, Lenny, Lenny Henry coming, come in and do speeches.

1:13:41Different people like of high stature come in and we'll do speeches. in front of them, I'll get on the mic and perform because I've always loved performing. Even in the camp, I used to drum away in empty flowers or buckets to take myself away from all that chaos and pain. And music's always been in my blood, in my heart, you know what I mean? So, yeah, getting knocked back from parole and going in front of Chris and Moses and they're waiting for me to tell them the good news, I'm going home and I'm sitting in front of them and I'm like, I didn't get in and I'm just crying and they're crying with me because they feel my pain.

1:14:12Yeah. And they're people that went off young as all and that wasn't their, that wasn't their path as all, but they've just had to go through it for whatever different reasons. You know what I mean? So yeah, man, like it was just, yeah, it's just, it was, it was nuts, man. It was too much. But Grendon was where I found my voice again. Yeah. Where there was peace for me. I didn't have to worry about anyone. I didn't have to worry about coming out and anyone doing anything to me or anything like that. Grendon was the safest place, but it was the most nuttiest place I've ever been to in my life. Like, refugee camps and stuff was tough, right?

1:14:56But Grendon, psychologically, you have to deal with everything that you've experienced in your life. Every single day, you have to talk about it. How does this make you feel? Yeah. So how did they feel when, you know, your parents weren't there? How did they feel witnessing all them bodies? How did they feel going from... And they talked to you about it every single day. For three years, I'd done it. I'd done therapy dodge. And you know what? That was the best thing that's ever happened to me. I bet. Did they say to you after you do this therapy, then you'll be able to leave? That's what they did say to me.

1:15:30The staff used to say to me, oh, don't worry about your parole. Once you do this therapy, you'll be going home, you know? And like I said, that's where I met Jack and I started doing this learning together with a bunch of Cambridge students. I didn't, I'm not going to bring to a bunch of Cambridge students that are studying law and different things. But there was this thing that was happening and I was the first jail that had done it. And for me being in the same room with Cambridge University students and feeling like I can't offer them anything, Jack stepped in and sat next to me and he taught me and Laura and different people.

1:16:05and you know Moses and you know and Chris will also tell me bro you can do it bro you're smart don't worry you've got real life experience that they don't have so you bring that to the group absolutely you know and I aced that I flied that and I passed that I got distinction and stuff like that and I was like what I got distinction and you know I mean so and and that's how I got the Cambridge bursary through Cambridge University when I came out of Brixton because I didn't get my parole after I finished Grendon and I was the I was one of the first youngest ever people to complete Grendon yeah me Chris Moses are the first ever like the first ever young people to ever complete that place at that time I don't know how many more there's been beyond after us but we was because they go there and they just crack and they just you know they bulk because it's like this is too much you know you're putting us around all these crazy people and we don't want to be around these crazy people so that therapy was the most toughest thing I've ever had to do in my life you know I still do therapy now yeah because I love it good for you and it you know it's made me do you feel like you found Rosco yeah I found myself yeah yeah I'm so grateful for it you know it's been a journey and I lost myself from a five-year-old you know this dream I had I've always loved music like playing the bongos in the back garden with my dad we had a big house I'll be in a back garden with him playing bongos and he used to deal with antiques as well so you bring like different carpets and spears from the village and mask and all of this stuff and you'll bring back like bongos and I used to just be in the back garden playing with him and all of that stuff you know I mean so going to a jail where I'm now focusing on my music you know Moses is engineering Chris is teaching me how to proper structure my lyrics and stuff and Moses is there teaching me and Jack will come in and Jack will be like what have you written today okay spit some bars for me okay there's a there's a thing happening in a couple why don't you ask them if you can perform that or perform that Chris will play the piano this person or that person so everyone encouraged me to to be the best version of myself and that's who I've always been and that's who I've always wanted to be.

1:18:18We got caught up in the wrong circles. I got caught up in the wrong circles and I had to, I had to, to do certain thing and find myself again. You're a good soul, man. I try my best. You are. You're a good soul. When we first spoke. Yeah. And you were like, mate, I need an opportunity. And I was like, tell me, tell me a bit about it. I was like, mate, get on the podcast. Yeah. Let's get your story out there. Yeah. Tell me about what you want to achieve in music moving forwards now. So I came home and I lost Jack through a terrible, terrible thing that happened at London Bridge that should have never happened, especially with someone that you're helping.

1:19:04And Jack was my mentor and Jack was meant to manage me. We spoke about him. He was going to manage me and stuff like that. and I'll go to Cambridge you know and chill with him and how do you lose Jack Jack was Jack half fucking up Jack um Jack was sadly taken away from us at a last London British terror attack so yeah he was taken away from us the last one last yeah to London British terror attack through a person that he also help through the program that they did get home and the same person held extremist views and decided to come in and do something to someone that was just an amazing human being you know someone that stood hand in hand with us and said you know what yous lot deserve second chance like no one's born this way you know you know you're not bad people and he championed you know he he he was at a full front face of adversity social justice anything you know he fought hard for us and jack was the one that helped me fight my pill and helped me get the right thing with a alongside members from the clink in brixton and the you know the the other people there's so many people that have helped me on this journey because they've seen who I've they've actually who I'm really are and they've been like you know what this guy does you know he does he deserves all of this like why is he still in jail why is he still this so Jack helped me through that and he helped me get a bursary from Cambridge through you know the professors that was in charge of the of of the program so when I came home I left Brixton my son didn't even know he was I was coming on me for I was coming he thought he was coming on the visit so we surprised them bless him and he fainted and there was a lady Victoria just across the and I was like Victoria what are you doing and she's like big brown envelopes like you got a bursary for Cambridge University and I was like what so I had done Cambridge for a while you know I don't create writing and music you know and that's that's where I've really started applying myself so with music I I started doing things that I felt like, you know, some people are doing this and I'm feeling the pressure.

1:21:31You know, and Jack always told me, don't feel the pressure, do things that align with Roscoe. I like the Roscoe that talks about the journey. I like Roscoe that sings about people's lives because you've lived it and you can tell the story. But unfortunately, when I came home, Dodge, you know, I came home, they wanted to deport me and all different things. so I didn't have no papers, no place to stay, this and that. And I'm still, you know, I'm still going through the process now. You've not gone nowhere. You can't work. You can't do this. I wasn't allowed to go to Cambridge till Cambridge University made a bit of noise about it.

1:22:04And then luckily for me, there was this lovely Asian man at the desk who said, Roscoe, they're lying to you. Like when I used to go and sign on every day. And he said, you can actually go and study at Cambridge, but we can't change the work thing and all of this stuff. so up to this now i've been doing my music and i'm doing well with it and um i'm now about to to do certain things you're a proper talent by the way yeah thank you man a proper talent thank you i'm now about to do certain things with it dodge and most of the i've just had my first headline shows and stuff and i've done in jack's memory in cambridge and i've done one in portsmouth and i've now got a couple more headline shows and i'm working on my first ever studio project it's my first ever EP and I'm so grateful because if I didn't do all this work I wouldn't be able to speak on what I'm speaking in the project so you're writing your own music as well I write my own music and I also write sometimes I get in a room with people and we just write no one's going to write better lyrics than you no from your life no impossible no impossible no I think you're I think you're going to be smashing this mate thank you brother and if there's anything I can do to help yeah please let me know I'm definitely there for you oh thank you dodge i appreciate you i appreciate that means the world to me man that does mean the world so um yeah i've just been i've been i've just been smashing studio um and i'm currently i'm with my i'm staying with my friend who i absolutely want you to meet he's one he plays for the dub pistols yeah and um so i've just been in the middle of nowhere in the countryside writing my whole EP, going to the studio in London in Embassy Garden, smashing it out, going back to the countryside, going on the piano, he'll get the guitar out.

1:23:54He's got an amazing partner who's got a voice of an angel. And literally, we've just been creating, I've been creating, writing songs, and he's got, he's very balanced, and he's, he's very like, He is. And he's all about, you know, practicing your breathing and your breath work and all of this stuff. Stuff that I was always been aware of, which I started to do. But now being around him, it's even more now. Like it's, you know, and through that, I'm like, that's why I'm so like, I'm just like, nothing can't really affect me. Nothing can't really get in. I don't think anything can affect you. what you've been through from five to 27 is mad yeah yeah like you were you were you were you're a man yeah you're a boy but you're in a man's world at like 10 11 12 13 14 15 in a man's world not having a home yeah and be fighting your way through yeah and before like when covid hit i used to stay with um i like she she used to call herself like my surrogate mom like she took me like she she was lovely like she she put me in the middle of nowhere like she's got a massive house in the middle of nowhere and she gave me like the gym and stuff and bed in there and everything like it's a proper like proper gaff and i had everything that i needed there and um actually she's one of the main people she was one of the main reason why the ipp is being abolished okay she's a lawyer and she literally fought and she still fights for the mandem now yeah you know and she's like the forefront of everything.

1:25:33Like she's, I'm not going to mention her name, but she has, she's also a lawyer. And she literally, I go to HMP Coldenly and she has an IPP group and a life, a group that she tends to. And she just there and she goes to House of Parliaments or House of Commons and writes to them, her and her and another guy that's doing it. And then she knows a lot of people because she's quite well known and she's very respected in her own rights in her field. And they're one of the main reasons why this IPP has been abolished. They're one of the main reasons why I've now come off my life license, because they've got it abolished.

1:26:15Yeah. You know, so on my journey I've had amazing people come in and help me and help me go into the right direction and be like, listen your story's amazing and your music oh yeah just keep writing yeah when you're ready and you've got a good energy yeah i try nice energy i try and you're very kind and humble and polite yeah and that was you really yeah before you got caught up in everything right because i had a good life good life yeah and i've always like my dad's always you know when we was back home and you'll disappear like you know when when you're a young boy and your dad you know say to me and my bro, which I don't want to get into my brother because it's too deep and stuff and my sis and different things like that, you know.

1:26:59But when my dad would leave, he's like, you guys are the man of the house, you know, and that used to make me feel good. So I've always been, okay, I've got responsibilities. I've got to look after my mom. I've got to look after my sister, you know, and bless my mom, she's no longer with us. And my mom had like three years to live prior to me coming home and yeah my mum my mum my mum my mum passed shortly after Jack passed and um like a a year and yeah a year or something after and uh imagine losing your best friend and your mentor who's like your brother like literally was like I wouldn't class that guy as anything else than my brother and then losing your mum and you're going through so much no one really knows where you're going through everyone's seeing you because i've got friends i can get into a nice car if i want i can ring a friend and put on a nice watch if i want you know no one really knows where you're going through and you're trying to keep up appearances with everyone else because and it just goes to a point where i was like you know what forget all of this stuff i'm just going to be me yeah and i want to be authentic yeah and i want to be myself and whoever doesn't like that doesn't like that but it doesn't mean like it does that doesn't affect me.

1:28:16I just want to be myself. I've always been this person. I want to make music that inspires people and, you know, does amazing things and stuff like that. And I just want to be me. And I'm like, this is just the road I want to go down. This is a whole new chapter for you, mate. Thank you. This is a whole new chapter. Thank you. When we spoke a couple of months ago, I was like, mate, you need to come on. Yeah. You need to tell your story because the snippets you were telling me, I was like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. This is, yeah. Even getting there today was a tough one. Yeah, I was going to say, even today was a drama getting there, wasn't it?

1:28:48Yeah, it was a tough one. But we got here. We got here on a bank holiday. Fair play to you. Yeah. Roscoe. Yes, Dodge. Yeah, mate. I've loved this. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you so much as well, because you've been, you know, you've been so kind as well. Like just getting back to me and all of this, that just talking to me and stuff. Like even when we first spoke, like you're just, your energy's so like, you know, and when I came through you came out you hugged me and you shook my hand and stuff and now we're just here talking after like a couple months of planning it's just great it's amazing and I'm grateful to you and I'm grateful to our mate over there this is all good this is all good energy and do you know what I'm well connected in the music world as you know I own a festival as well yeah I'm going to I'm going to open up some doors for you thank you thank you thank you so much before we finish up here where can people find you?

1:29:44People can find me on Rosca on Instagram at a minute. That's where they'll see everything. And you spell that R-O-S-C-A. So it's R-O-S-C-A. Yeah. And then it's Rosca's World. Because literally I want to take people into my world. So it's R-O-S-C-A-W-R-L-D, Rosca's World on Instagram. Yeah. Anyone out listening out there, please get in contact. And if you're in the music industry, have a listen. You know, serious stuff, what he's doing here. And now, like I said before, the lyrics, no one's going to beat your lyrics at all. Thank you. I can't wait to do Bournemouth 7 for you as well. Yeah, I'm going to come and play at the festival now.

1:30:20I'm doing the festival. I'm doing a couple more this year. I'm looking forward to watching you live. Yeah, thank you. I've got a whole band. That's how I like to do it. I've got a whole band. It's a whole set of trumpet player, bass player, guitarist, pianist, drummer. I want to do things how I've always wanted to do things. And this is how we've done things in Grendon. yeah so i've gone back to my recipe that works for me and being authentic with it yeah you know and making music for the people roscoe you're an absolute gentleman mate thank you i've absolutely loved this thank you yeah and anyone out there go and check him out thank you yeah if anyone wants to hear a part two because i know there's a lot more stories here oh yeah we've got a lot a lot more so if you want a part two leave a part two leave a message down there but mate you're a star thank you yeah thank you man i wish you all the best in the future thank you so much respect thank Thank you.

1:31:09Fucking hell mate. I've got goosebumps. Have you? I have got fucking goosebumps. Mate, that is brilliant. Yeah. Thank you so much. My God. Yeah. What a fucking mess. I've had 300 people on here. That is a mad story. I knew when we first connected, we got on like instant like, oh, I like the energy. Yeah. I like the energy here. Yeah. When you start telling me about Congo and coming over here and camps and lost your parents and then you got banged up, I was like, this is just maddening. This is like chaos from five to 27. Yeah. And to hear it come from the horse's mouth now, I know it. And what I like about it, people only come here once, you know, with redemption.

1:31:49Yeah. You know, I've done my time. I've done bad. But actually, all of that really wasn't me. Yeah. I was putting the front on. Yeah. Got caught up in the wrong stuff. Yeah. Wow, man. I thought you spoke brilliant. You spoke really, really well. Thank you. Yeah, you spoke really well. I think you wanted to say. Come out well. Of course, very well. Very articulate. Thank you. For someone who's. I listen to people all the time. Yeah. For someone who's first, not first language. Yeah. And you spend that much time in society. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was really powerful. Thank you. I think people are going to really love that.

1:32:22Yeah. I'm thinking what we do. You've got all the notes. A page and a half. Oh, wow. That's like one-liners. They'll cut them up and they'll bang them out across Insta and TikTok. and all that sort of stuff. Hi, guys. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Can you do us a favor and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show? Cheers, guys.

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