#305. Iconic Labyrinth Nightclub Owner & The 90s Rave Scene - Joe Wieczorek

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1:53I'd had a pub for the three years prior. There was murders there, there was gunfighting, someone coming one night on a motorbike through the door. I don't think one regular I could say, oh he's a straight guy. They were all crackers. As soon as you talk about a pound note, things change. And here I was at Wembley back in the dressing room, people coming in left, right and centre, McCartney, Elton John, Bowie. The madness of everyone getting boozed up, having tear ups and fights, and then all of a sudden, late 80s, people found ecstasy.

2:22welcome to the eventful lives podcast i'm your host dodge and i'm the founder of borne the sevens the world's largest sport and music festival on this podcast i speak to proper characters of all lived eventful lives do us a favor and hit that follow button and be sure to check us out on youtube instagram facebook and tiktok at dodge woodham where we've now had over 100 million views joe welcome to the show mate yeah thank you let's roll all the way back What was it like throwing illegal raves back in the late 80s? It was brilliant. The cat and mouse, the stuff that went with that, you're doing something very, very different.

3:01You're a little bit green, a little bit naive, because as much as I've done stuff involving music and that, it was nothing like that. This was on another level. Going out, getting in warehouses, making them right, making sure it didn't come on top and then you know taking into account whose manner are you on you know is everything going to be all right in that respect and then just that euphoria of your party starting and getting to morning to me that was the thing you know if you don't matter what you're doing if you have an event and it gets to morning you've won you're away you've done it yeah you've pulled it off whatever you want to call it and you know from that first one where you know we'd done certain things you know we'd gone in a fire station for an appointment with the fire officer and they put me in a room me and my pal Richard who started it with me Richard John and we'd gone to this fire officer and they'd put me in his office on me own just me and Richard waiting for him and I've whooped a piece of edited note paper put it in me pocket and then that's how we went about doing stuff we forged insurance certificates we forged leases rental agreements it was unreal but the test was the first one the first one that we did val road manor house that weekend of the 14th and 15th of october what year 1988 i didn't know what to expect you know we'd been going to parties you know we'd clocked onto what i did about 87 mid to 87 you know the clink street thing that i did uh working down there coming across you know parties there boy george's party there and then you know someone taking me and from then onwards it was non-stop all i wanted to do was go to these parties.

4:46I mean, you know, pleated trousers, gold on my fingers, nice, you know, expensive clothes, went out the window. Yeah. Wasn't interested. Yeah. Couldn't give a flying. Yeah. And, you know, for me, this thing that had come along where, you know, I'm meeting complete strangers and they're becoming friends pretty much overnight. It was a bit like that. It was almost too good to be true. You know, where are you from, mate? You know, give her a squeak, this, that, and the other. And that sort of, wow, I like this. This is different, you know, from what I've been through before that and the things that I'd got up to before that, this had come along, blew me away.

5:22And as far as I can say, I was blingered. I weren't interested in that. Everything went out the window. You know, the football, you know, my pals from the past. See you later. Yeah. And, you know, certainly from that first party, when that Inspector Arth from Arringay Police turns up, he's let me walk around, so I walk around again. I mean he looks at all the documents that I had I had to forge this that and the other and at the end of it I'm thinking oh here we go and he could have turned around and said that's you you're over get them out now but he didn't he put his hands out and shook me and he says what a well run young party young man aren't they hey and for me you know that and still to this day that was the green light that was me alright sweet I can do this and same with Richard and his wife and my partner Sue we decided like yeah we're going to have this we're all going to have this and that was the beginning of it that that weekend party that sort of went on from friday to sunday or less we had a bit of a gap in the morning we had a flat around the corner so we went as you know completely went straight back again bang at it again huge sound system you know far too big for the venue and uh yeah lost an absolute fortune you know got completely off it and absolutely loved it it was brilliant and and to me that was it the door was open yeah you know that's where i'm going yeah and left it behind the football you know the people that are new from football all of a sudden i'm racking up new friends left right and center you know and none of them from the past all from this new world that i sort of stumbled across and it was all acid house yeah i mean even even before that you know when it was crossing over you had acid house but you also had you know they will play cure like why can't i be you they will play all these other bits like almost a remainder from the New Romantics all the time and the bands that follow the Flambit route and places like that they'd play one or two things but hey you know what it absolutely worked you know I thought this is the best thing since sliced bread you know what I mean I'm having this and there's nowhere in the world that I was coming away from that that's me I'll have that so everyone knows you as like Labyrinth you've created Labyrinth where did the name Labyrinth come from ah the I just had it in my head that I was going to call it Labyrinth.

7:42You know, when you search about it and you think, well, I'm going to call it this, call it that. And Heidi and Richard are to do it with. They wanted to call the party another serious wicked rave. So we had a bit of a compromise. Friday night, the first one, was another serious wicked rave. And, you know, I didn't get to do a Labyrinth until the following day, the Saturday. We didn't even know if it was going to happen. We'd have got stops on Friday. Maybe there wouldn't be a Labyrinth. I don't know, but we didn't. and we went for it and that's how that name come about Labyrinth and the other thing the George Harrison picture that we used so long my new partner Sue had finished with that fella Nigel and there was a bit of an air between the two of them and she still had some stuff around at his gaff and you know she wants her stuff back I've gone around there with her to you know have her back and my pal Richard's come as peacemaker so they've gone to get all their stuff and I see this picture on the wall it was a George Harrison picture with the hand with all the colours I love that I love that and then you know for me the first couple of labyrinths we did didn't have no picture they just had a like labyrinth written and we spelt it wrong we didn't know for about half a dozen parties we spelt labyrinth wrong and I'm once I realised well now I'm really Sydney Bink and then we kept it you know for whatever reason you know we decided right we'll keep it and that's how it ended up being spelt as it was out of out of spite I've all there you go I've done it but I'm sticking with it there and off we went and that was the the start of the journey that was wow what was your journey like before you got to become a rave promoter back in the late 80s I'd been in a I'd had a pub for the three years prior to Acid House Park so I had the Pickle House in Acne Road asylum yeah you know the pub had come about there was a couple of fellas Chris and Eddie who worked for the firm as it were and they had the axe and they had the pickle house and the pickle house wasn't the number one out of the two that they had and then they was involved in that bullion thing where it all you know they all got collared and everything else there was a bullion thing around shortage where they had you know quite a few million pounds and the people who owned the pub you know I eventually got hold of and that's how I got it they'd all got chawed and this other fella Johnny didn't have a clue how to run a booze and he just said to me one day, do you want a pub?

10:04And I was a local regular in there. I'd go in there for a thing here and there and whatever. And bang, he'd give me his pub. He said, go on, you've got to do it. You sort it out. And of course, straight away, I'm in there. This is 85. I would have Tottenham meets there if it was playing West Ham or whatever, QBR. They'd all come to Marboza in Acne Road and there'd be hundreds of people. I filled a pub up and the street and the next pub at the pub across the road. and it got a bit like that and then even my regulars not from Bethnal Green you know Gary and Mickey and all this loads of them and they were chaotic there was murders there there was gunfighting and someone coming one night on a motorbike through the door it was absolute chaos in there every weekend but it was a time when you know 11 o 'clock most boozes shut some of them 12 but we just we didn't shut you know and you know as I say I used to throw a bit of lively in the ice bucket get everyone bang at it and you know you'd have them still there six o 'clock you know I mean it was incredible the pickle house was an asylum and I don't think I run regular I would say oh he's a straight guy they were all crackers you know it was that sort of gaff and then alongside that and then a few years before that I'd stumbled across working backstage and certainly only really dressing rooms I tried to pit and doing all the other things I didn't like it.

11:31I said, Jim, I don't do that. But Jim Calleran, who run all the security for most of the pop, most of them, he said, all right, we'll do dressing rooms. He started giving us dressing rooms, me and Arthur and Malcolm. You know, we really turned up. We left the dressing room and we looked after the artists and, you know, all that sort of stuff. And that was class. Yeah. You know what I mean? We had an amazing time. You know, Springsteen, Dianne Strange, The U, Pink Floyd. I still remember the first one. It was Nebworth, 1975. and it was Pink Floyd, Linda Lewis, Roy Hartman, Monty Pikeman. And I'm up on the laser tower with quite a bit of it.

12:09I'm watching Floyd. I think this is unbelievable. And I'm going to get weighed up as well. And I did, you know, yeah. And they kept coming. They kept phoning me up. And I did so many, you know, Roxy music. What were you actually doing? Making sure that they were all right. Making sure that strange people or odd people didn't get here. making sure if they wanted anything, deal with it, sort them out. And that's what we did, you know, loads of it. You know, Sting and Bob Marley and the Whalers was an amazing one that turned into a riot at Lyceum. It just got overrun. But, you know, I was there. I was on stage.

12:45I was like, wow. You know what I mean? It was something else. And to keep doing that, you know, over and over, and I kept getting the phone call. And right up, even, you know, the Bay City Rollers, they were actually, I looked a bit like him and I had a similar haircut. And there was a riot. It was London Weekend Studios and they were sending it out to the Frank Sinatra show in America. So it was a Sunday afternoon, but it went out there different, you know, in the evening, I think. And they packed in hundreds and hundreds of birds, all of them with tartan scarves and all that, hundreds of them.

13:17And there was nothing to stop them between the audience and the Bay City Roll. And at that time, you know, they was proper teeny-bopped band. And I'll never forget it. Hundreds of girls just stormed the stage. They were trying to get to them, as it were. And I ended up, they've put, impromptu, as it were, black coat, tartan scarf, tartan scarf, out of a side door. And I got ripped. I'll never forget. I had a bird had a hold of me leg just underneath, squeaked. Couldn't believe it. And I'm like, what was that about? And it only happened to one. but you know some of the things that happened along the way you know the parties that we you know dealt with and the backstage stuff was unreal what was it like being a Tottenham fan and part of the whole Tottenham scene having a boozer in East London yeah around Bethnal Green a lot of Spurs around there I mean I had my own little mob around there used to come in virtually every day and there were one or two occasions where without them I probably wouldn't be here you know there was a couple of things that happened that I would have been in trouble but i was surrounded by a lot of good people i could pick up the phone and they were five minutes away and stuff like that but you know oxford and bethnal green area i was sweet yeah you know start going a bit more east and you start getting a bit more west ham here but that that bit of acne road around there you know loads of my pals around there and i mean i always felt that i was covered around there you know i'd i've been involved in a couple of car sites in acne road and then i had the pub so you know there was a real big connection around there and it was the Most of the pub time was sweet, but it was crazy.

14:55Yeah. It was, you know, how I lasted two and a bit years, I don't know, but I somehow did. And it was every week. Was it good though? Did you not have any good dough out of you? I don't know about good dough. I got a nice drink at the end of it when they sold it. But yeah, it was chaos. It was weekly chaos. You know, it cost me a relationship or two. You know, it was a bit like that. It just comes at you when you're behind a ramp. But you do see a different sight of people. Absolutely. People who I absolutely liked prior to having the pub, after having the boozer and seeing how they actually really are when they've had a drink or whatever, different people, mate.

15:36Yeah. And, you know, sometimes it worked nice beyond the ramp. As I say, it was, you know, guns came out in there on more than one occasion. Yeah. And it got a bit towards the end, you know. I don't know how long I'd have lasted if it had carried on. crazy times crazy times and alongside that very much even you know live aid day when we did live aid you know I'm in the dressing room at live aid but I had the boozer and my pub was packed with people watching the live aid thing and there I was at Wembley back in the dressing room looking you know dealing with all sorts of mad things you know people coming in left right and centre McCartney Elton John Bowie this one Sharday it was non-stop you know you could imagine I took John Hurt to the Royal Box you know he was right next to Lady Di and I'm looking and I'm like whoa here we go and the same again the birthright ball at the Elbert Hall we'd done that one night and Jim comes to the company got a line up at the back so I don't know the Elbert Hall there's a private bit at the back you can't go in and we was all lined up and Lady Di and I come around and say hello to all of us and for me little things like how's this happened how on earth has that happened but it did and you know little things like that that were going on on the side That was my world.

16:50Loved it. You know, getting paid cash in hand to deal with all these rock shows and bands and this. And it was unbelievable. Did you ever get caught up in any of the football hooliganism back in the day? Yeah, I loved it. From a kid, I mean, you know, my parental control wasn't very much. It wasn't good. You know, I could do pretty much what I wanted from a very, very early age. I was just, you know, I'd go. and one of the first right and there was a few and one of the first runs was Derby away at the baseball ground yeah I was about 12 and Dave Mackay had gone sort out Derby was one of our players and we got up there September 69 got beat 5-0 and it was chaotic and then coming back on the train they rioted on the train and then they dropped everyone they kicked everyone off the train at a place called Flitwick and Arling I think it was yeah and of course they've rioted in the town then and you know I'm like this is good you know and I loved it at the time and then not long after that we've played Crystal Palace and they've knocked us out of the Cup in 97 and they went crackers that night you know wrecked Norwood Juncture and wrecked the train and that was where I suppose it begun and I thought oh this is exciting I'll have you know this is a bit of me and yeah I've very quickly settled into being a bit of an hooligan on the side and you know going to start going to away games you know I went to Southampton away bunked up the school I think it was 71 or something I had murders and me and my mate Steve got sussed out and some big lump come after us and we ended up having a big battle with him in Southampton and yeah it was it was you know quite an awakening to do that stuff then but as I say I think if I'd have had normal parenting maybe that wouldn't have happened but they just yeah I did what I wanted but that's what that's why we're promoters we had freedom as a young kid and all you talk in there like I grew up in boozers you get to see everything You saw everything as a young kid.

18:45You saw everything. I grew up from the age of four. It was in there, but... Another world. It was another world. Yeah. And every time I meet someone who's either owned the boozer or worked in the boozer, lived in the boozer, they've all seen a lot of naughty stuff. Yeah, well, they looked hard on me. Don't get me wrong. But it was fun. It was fun. It was a buzz as well, right? The back of the boozer. I had a, you know, they built me a bedroom. They put a spiral staircase in it, and it was great. And you can imagine, you know, I had the best bar mates. Oh, better. They looked hard on me. They was, you know, when I look back at their time, Donna, Sarah, this one, Sam, unbelievable how they looked after me.

19:17You know, it was great. How did you see it change from the madness of everyone getting boozed up, having tear ups and fights, and then all of a sudden, late 80s, people found ecstasy? Yeah, it come by a couple of different routes as it happens. I've been, you know, I was living over Canyon Town, and I was with a girl Tina, and it come to an end and it wasn't great at the end of it and i've gone back to bethnal green anyway talk about 87 here sometime august september i don't know something like that and um peanuts who i've rented my flat to um yeah i said to him the deal was you can have my flat but if things go you know tits up i've got to come back so i've gone back there and he's took me to a i suppose really was the first rave or acid party or even i call it but it wasn't quite as they matured into yes this was a strobe light a smoke machine you know uv that's it very very basic five pound to get in no rules no regs do as you please but then i've gone in there i've bumped into one or two people what are they doing here yeah and then where i had the booze at the pickle house up the road was the marksman yeah and that was id and richard john who you know i knew them as publicans but then i've i've gone in this gap and they're in there like hey so i'll get my head down but Anyway, we could see each other.

20:36Oh, well, you know, that was on the same journey as me. They'd been in the booze. They'd probably had enough of it. And this had come along, and this was brilliant. And then another mad thing happened where one of my old friends, Christine Clements, she was running a snack bar. It turns out, you know, she's running at a place called Clink Street. And it was rehearsal rooms. And she said, oh, I'm going away. You're going to Spain for three or four weeks. Would you come? Oh, I'll look out of it. so I've the Pickle House had come to me in the end of 87 alright I'll come down and do it so I've gone down to this gaff Pink Street yeah Pink Street nothing in me and then the Pasadenas are in there rehearsing and then another band of there was in there and then a box turns up one day and this box was full of t-shirts and it was a yellow smile and it had you have been invited to the boys birthday party and I was like what's that about and I knew you know Ray Kane from my pal, the governor of Clink Street.

21:37And so I put him in there, blah, blah. Anyway, I found out about this party and I realised that there was parties going on in this gaff where I was actually working. So I've slipped in there one night. Unreal. I mean, this was on another level. This was just, wow, this is something, something's happening here. And that was those two incidents, one with Peanuts, when I split up and went back to Bethnal Green. And then this Clink Street thing, that lit me fuse as it were. I knew that this is going to be something. This ain't going to go away. And then as you go to them, and you start going to these different gaffes, which we did.

22:13I mean, the governors, those early governors was apocalypse now. They was, you know, they had it. They even had a party the first night I did Labyrinth, 15th of October, slaughtered us. But they was the governors. They were brilliant. And then after that, come Genesis. Yeah, they started three weeks after us, Genesis. I knew Andy quite well. and all that lot, Delski and this one and that one. They was lovely fellas, great fellas, part of the scene. And it just bumps along as it went along. You meet people in different walks of life, different people to what you've been used to. And to me, it was a saviour.

22:47I think I just got myself in silly trouble or ended up in the boob, whatever. I think it saved me, without a doubt. What was it like being a promoter back then? And obviously it was all a bit of fun, throwing parties, earning money, lovely, lovely, lovely. Did it get to a point when it started to get naughty? Did it get to a point where there was faces turning up? Soon. English is turning up. And all the money's about, I want the people out. Exactly where I was going. As soon as you talk about a pound note, things change. And we'd done Manor House, we lost a fortune. No one come near us. And I've done a party at the Bean Club, Essex Road, and I've done another one in Kingsham Road.

23:24And I'll stack my ankle. That took us a little while to get over. But then we find this gaffe in 89. You know, we'd been banging our head against the wall with quite a few of these parties. But we found this gaffe in Dace Road Bow. Called it 10 Rooms of Madness. And off we go. Of course. And we didn't know. I picked a Friday night. I'd learned my lesson from, you know, before. And I knew that Genesis were up and running. I could see that they were a mile in front of us. But I'd say, yeah, that's just how it was then. It was this Dace Road gaffe. wasn't sure how it was going to turn out really had no clue picked a Friday night which is the ardor of the two nights got there up eight, nine o 'clock people there already like what?

24:07and then as the door opens Q going down the street around the corner you know this was obviously a right move and we did I think we did five in a row there rammed every single one of them and that was where I think that Labyrinth really picked up took off took off give us a pound note But at the same time, during that little five weeks that we had there, I had three different firms try and get into me. Yeah, okay. And it was like, what? Yeah. You know, and then, you know, getting told, well, you know, you can do a party if we're involved. You can do a party anywhere you want, but no one else can do a party near you.

24:42I'm like, what? And then, you know, taking me out. They took me out. They took me out. They showed me around. Oh, this is us. This is, I'm like, what? Yeah. And some of them, I'd known from football, some of them I'd even turn around and say they were friends. Okay. But they wasn't. Yeah. They wasn't. It was really about dollars. Yeah. That was what it was really about. They didn't give a flying about me. Yeah. And, you know, I had it around me house. I had people coming and threatening me at my door because I didn't know. What did your daughter? You know, threatening me at my door. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

25:11And it went on a bit like that. I mean, I did have one occasion when they come around, three or four of them. And one of them had a piece. Yeah. And I'm in there with Sue, her mate Sandy, and a five-year-old kid. Yeah. I'm like, what? Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. And that's how it was. Yeah. That's what they did. They live off you being scared. They take it for granted. You've got no bottle. You've got no front. But the other side of that is that as much as it was me and Sue against the world, that's how it felt. Yeah. You ain't having me. No. You ain't stopping me. You go away. Yeah. You're not having none of mine.

25:47And we played games. We got them at it. We told lies. We didn't turn up. We pulled strokes. you know when they thought i was doing a party in a certain place we had a mail out you know we had quite a few thousand people on it we wouldn't even do a flyer we had a touch with someone who it meant that we could do postage virtually for nothing so we were just sending out mail outs and people were coming and we weren't getting clocked by them you know we were going under the radar and that suited me fine you know went to labbrook grove went to tottenham went to quite a few where we you know Erkules Road didn't even have a flyer rammed them out rammed them out to the york you know we knew that people wanted what we had but we didn't want to give half of it away to people we didn't like yeah and that's that's where it was you know some of them some of them were scary some of them was like do I really need this yeah you know this is getting a bit near the mark and when they turn up at your house or when you know your partner goes around there the shop to get some cigarettes and just bits and pieces and there's someone near.

26:53All right, how's Joe? Is he all right? There was a bit of that when I went on the intimidation stuff. And I knew that they had some respect for me because they'd never come around never ever was it one of them. It was always a little fun when they turned up, when they flopped on you, whatever. And that time when they took me out, that was the decision I've got to get out of this. What do you mean they took you out? They said, come, let's have a look around. They said, we'll show you what we've got. We'll show you what we control. Went out to West End, went to All Pinton, went to all these different gaffs.

27:21And I could see one, get a gaff, I went in Albion and I see the governor behind the bar, busy gaff, take the pound note. And I see his face. Oh, he looked ill. I went, you should have looked like that. You've got a gaff like this. It was round. Yeah. Take the pound note. Yeah. And he looked ill. And they introduced me to him. I went, he's probably going through what, yeah, they want me to go through. put the squeeze on him. And I knew that I had to, I really did know that I had to get out of him and I did. I kept playing games, playing games, playing games right up until the end of our reigning warehouse parties, which came very, very late 89.

27:55I sort of thought, you know what? You've got them. You've got the acid squad now. And they did give me a tug. Pretty much said to me, you carry on. You're going. We're going to sort you out. You can't keep doing that every week. Did you find that there was other promoters saw you as competition and wanted to be taken out? maybe yeah you know i've certainly never got that back directly told to my face but there were obviously times when i knew that certain events were on and some of those events did have the chaps around them so you know you had to be a little bit wary as far as if you go up against them on the same night as them yeah you are likely to get a tug or something happen or something go role um but you know fortunately you know i think we were just wise to them yeah you know we we did whatever we possibly could to get out of them and it was one of them one day they come around and there's you know we were supposed to do a party with them at metropolitan wolf what then which was our offices but we'd swerved that and we'd sent a mail out to everyone sending them at Ladbroke Grove.

29:03We'd done a party with Paul from Ibiza. You know, the Ibiza rave. And they sussed it out. And they turn up at my house. One of them in my front. When I'm sitting there, I'm on my own. And one of them's going, it's him. I know it's him. He's the one who's getting us all out of it. And we was. We was playing games with them. We was, you know, making funny phone calls. All sorts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just to get out of them. And, yeah, he'd sussed me. But I got out. I got away with it. They'd never done anything. they were all sitting there glaring at me but no one actually done anything okay you know I got out and they went and I went and sweet so they were just putting a squeeze on basically oh yeah putting it on you constantly yeah putting it on you okay what firm was that uh East London is about is about the best I can give you without dropping myself right in it yeah you know I know that there was a meeting yeah and I wasn't the only promoter involved in that and this meeting was right this is how it's going to be you get one third one third goes on what you spend how you promote what you put in there the other third goes to us and they said that to quite a few one or two of the bigger promoters as well I mean you know I was there I see I see one geezer you know he put up a bit of a defensive and they was round him they was on him see you and they would proper put it on him see you're gonna and you know that's how it was and I'll never forget that meeting and the booze were in Dagenham.

30:34So yeah, that's what you was up against in the beginning but then when we went to 12th Dawson Lane it wasn't just the fact that we were struggling insofar as you've got gangsters on you all sorts of people on your old bill and breaking into places then it would come on top insofar as they were very adept at stopping you then. what's that as it went on sort of in the 89 the old building helped it oh towards the end towards the end of 89 yeah you know you're going to get so well these are documents here rental agreement they weren't having that they'd sussed all that too many people had pulled it and we tried to do a second ferry lane and they turned up with the owner the Jewish geyser with the skull cutter who you know my pals from Gillesis had done it there and they brought him along and we forget about all that you got out get out or you're going to be nicked yeah and you know So that was on top.

31:29And we'd done a party in a place around Shacklewell Lane. And we thought we were legit. We thought that we, you know, quite legit. And then Friday night and Saturday night, we was mad. We used to do two nights quite often in the same venue. We'd do two nights, Friday, Saturday. We'd done the Friday, or we tried to. Old Bill just come in. We ran, we're in license, get out. And we went again the following night, thinking we might be all right. done it again to come around but you know what certainly we can't do this we can't keep weighing out dough and we lost a small fortune on a gaff at Paddington underneath the roundabout where they used to fix trains so had done a party in there and I'd got in there all this would do and we set it all up and it would have been you know perhaps as big if not bigger than Ferry Lane yeah but death flopped on us and we got slaughtered financially you know your reputation gets a bit of a battering as well and then we dropped in size down to this one in Shacklewood Lane and exactly the same thing.

32:28Will that your time go, right, I'm out now. I will get out. Absolutely. What was the next move from you then going from the illegal roads? Was the next move to getting in the club world? Four Aces. Yeah. Yeah, we went to the Four Aces. I had a bit of a connection there. And the list of the Four Aces is? 12th Dalston Lane, one of the most notorious reggae clubs on the manor. Yeah. For donkey's years it had been that. And they'd had a bit of a ragga thing there for a while but the old bill had given them loads of grief. and we went there and we spoke to Newton Dunbar and we're still apprehensive, you know, what was to stop them coming and doing exactly the same again.

33:03So we've gone into the four races. Well, the downside, he only had a four o 'clock license. That was it. You know, so the deal was, all right, we'll come here. We'll have a go. We don't know that's going to work out because there's 4am nonsense. Some people just gone out of that. So we'll see if we can do it. So we've gone in there. and we're doing normal labyrinth stuff that we do. And they arrived. They kept coming. They just kept coming. And they backed us, as it were. They stayed with us, whatever way you deal it. It was unreal that we had this following that were willing to stay with us while we applied for this late license.

33:44And I didn't think we were going to. I thought, no way they're going to give us a brief. No way. And then bit by bit, I got to know Newton. And it turns out he was, I think, if not the first, one of the first Freemasons of color. And then I clicked. Then I understood. And then we went out for the brief and he got it. He got six o 'clock. That's where the clock went, is he? Changed everything. I bet. Changed everything. Yeah. And we had, there was a security firm used to do the boxing from Dan Wapping. A lot of, you know, a lot of fellows who, big lumps. Yeah. And that had crumbled. So we'd gone to King's Gym in Dalston, and we didn't really want to supper any of that East London fun.

34:27All right. I met Peter Johnson. He said, all right, sweet. I'll provide you with the men. I went, you know, but we've got this thing with this, you know, this ex-football mob. Yeah. Yeah, let them come. Pardon? Let them come. Okay. All right. Sweet. So we turn up at Dalston. We've got Terry, Sylvester, a few others, like Floyd, Barry. Big lumps. Oh. Yeah. And me and Sarah, I went, well, but as time went by, not only did they become our friends, they sorted that door. Yeah. You know, especially when we got the six o 'clock brief, it more or less doubled in size overnight. Mm. You know, we were getting mobbed, and I mean mobbed, Friday and Saturday.

35:08Unbelievable, and they were brilliant security, and I certainly remember one occasion where one of the old mob turns up, he's parked down the road, and Sue see him, Sue see him down there. One of the old ICF. Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely spot on. Yeah. And so we see him. And she went out and she said, Terry, but let him in. He said, you ain't coming. It'll be pace. And he stood out the front and he just stared down the road at him. He just stood out the front like that. Yeah. Staring down the road at him. Got on his motor, drove away. We never heard another word. Yeah. I mean, this little mob that we had.

35:42Yeah. And we kept him right away up until the pleasure rooms finished in 2000 2001, two, whatever. So you moved into the Four Aces in what year? January 1990 was our first. How long were you there for? Eight years. Eight years then? Eight years every Friday, every Saturday. Yeah. You know, seven, 800 parties. That's just a Friday and Saturday night. That's without the Sundays. That's without the afters. That's without any bank holidays, this, that. And we'd done quite a few of them. But that was crazy. That was absolutely crazy. How would you explain your eight years at that club? Draining. Okay.

36:22It took a lot out of me, I think. Certainly the last part, you know, there was a VAT situation where, you know, unbeknown to us, they were clocking, they were filming. And then, you know, the first time I knew about it, I was going home about 6, 10 miles, 6 in the morning. and I'm driving home I had a jeep and I've clucked this black BMW estate behind me and it stayed with me all the way up from Dorfston right down to Bethnal Green and I knew it was on me and I'm looking I'm thinking you ain't no Bill you ain't gangster I know I don't know who are you one of them had a black curly perm I'm like what so I've stopped the motor and I've jumped out I've run towards them trying to catch them out who are you and they've reversed and then zoom zoom the other way they've gone but I knew something this ain't right And it never clicked into me, that, never realised.

37:15But I dare say that, you know, it had been passed on to them. I don't know whether someone put it on us. I don't know whether it was just one of them things. But, yeah, that was very, very difficult. Stressful time with the vet. What did they want? They want back payment for all... Were they sitting there going over? I mean, you had... No, you're not. It was worse than that. It was 28th of September, about 7 in the morning on the Monday. And we'd been at it all weekend. I mean, at it. There's still a bit on an LP cover in the bedroom. And when they start smashing at the door, and I had metal gates, I had tungsten, thin nails that went through the wall.

37:51So they couldn't get through them unless I let them. And I knew it was on me. Whack that up. Right. What? They went, you're knocked. I went, what? You're knocked. Joseph Vtrek, I'm arresting you with a fraudulent evasion of VAT for 1.25 million. I went, what? And then I sat around and Sue was standing. I said, Sue, do me a favor, phone the brief, tell my other Tordish cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as I said that, it jumped on me, dragged me out of my flat, took me away. And then, you know, Sue was there for a short while after that and, you know, they got a couple of women and they come and took her away.

38:28But that was awful. Yeah. That was absolutely awful, you know, trying to work out what exactly we had done because we didn't feel we'd done anything wrong. But they'd been filming. they'd been they'd given an estimate of what they thought we owed and they'd tried to lay that on all the parties that I'd done from 88 right up until 94 which was six years of parties and they pretty much said that you know the VAT is for this club is down to you and you know it could be argued we wasn't the licensee you know we were promoters surely we'd deal with our own business but they tried to lay the old lot on us and we had a three year battle with them one court case that the old bailey got you know suspended you know they cancelled it and then the same thing happened at southwark crown court and then eventually we got the borough crown court in march 1997 and the the vat man had put pressure on quite a lot of people you know he told fibs yeah he got people out here threatened them you know whatever according to what came back to us one or two people hadn't helped one or two people had covered their own backs as it were but by doing that and dropped us in it you know we'd said well we've done so something we don't next amount and we did our book work thank god and um our book work that we had that was uh scrutinized by them they found 35 quids worth of discrepancies over the book work that we had for Dalston Lane that's me and Sue and that helped us but then you know we're into the the trial at borough and I kept thinking that's awful you know the barrister slaughtered you the barrister slaughtered you and halfway through I said to see if this was football we're firing him up half time I can't believe what they're trying to throw us and then when we went back on the Monday I could see the judge shaking his head and stuff like that and then all of a sudden he jumped fast I'm instructing the jury to find you not guilty the evidence that has been presented here is wholly unreliable after three years oh mate oh leaf must be like having a new shram on yeah and unfortunately you know the people that have inadvertently or meaningly dropped us in it um they gave them probable calls by saying what they said oh no I didn't have that money or I didn't they pretty much made us look like we was liars yeah but then when you get in court of law and we had a very good we had Andrew Gold who'd represented Lady Di so you know he was a very good barrister and the the prosecution barrister had come out of the tube at the point where we see him.

41:06So I knew that there was a difference in the tube. And then he smashed them. The barrister absolutely smashed them from the accountants or all the witnesses. Each one of them destroyed them. And yeah, we got out. I'll sit the suit. We're getting out of this. We're getting out of this. And all of a sudden, you leave the dock. And I walked up to this, the one with the black curly bird. I won't say his name, but I was going to go like that but I didn't I was just shook his out of it fair play mate alright sweet done and that was it but that was saying that was it the barristers said if you go wrong you're seven she's three is that right yeah seven and three is what he thought that they would start at and he said they obviously wanted to stop you that was the real thing that he thought he said so for three years you think that he could get a seven and you're missing if you get a three yeah and we're still promoting it we're still promoting a club every week every Friday every Saturday we didn't miss a night Did you get any compensation?

42:04No, because they had probable calls. The people who had made statements, the people who had gone up against us, gave them probable calls. And, you know, you need to find fault with a VAT man, not with the witnesses. So the fact that the witnesses were all thrown out, all I got was when they come and raided the house, they took one with a nice few quid under the sofa. They took everything. Bottles had changed a lot. Took everything. and even though getting found not guilty they still come back afterwards took me to court for civil bankruptcy and you can imagine also after you got not guilty they then come back after you again yeah wouldn't let go would not let go they come back and they took me they did me with civil bankruptcy for 1.25 million I don't know if you know the score with that but what happens is when you're up in court you can get legal aid if you're a criminal but the civil bankruptcy our council would have been 800 quid a day to fight it.

43:01I just put my hands up. I thought, I ain't having no, I'm going for that again. So I had to do six years of being a bank rat, no bank account, can't do this, can't open up my company. It's like having your hands tied behind your back. And it was a nightmare rearranging my life, trying to sort things out. During that time, it broke my heart, but I lost Sue. She went off and things didn't go right. And, you know, my world kind of fell apart after that, you know, bit by bit by bit, you know, we'd lost a club. And then we'd done another party over at the Mayfair Club, which was one of Bagley's places.

43:43They'd tried to help me out. But even that flocked, I've just had enough. You know, when you lose most of what you care about around you. And it, you know, I say after that point, I think it was about, it took me seven years to get back level. You know, I woke up one morning, Sue had gone. I'd lost my motor. I didn't have no job. I was skint. I was in four grounds with a rent arrears. That was the end. That was where our family saw. And I knew I had to go graft. I knew I had to get my nut down. You know, kids that were growing up. I had to do something. So the parties shelved. Right. And I did stop from, you know, for quite a while.

44:22So that labyrinth was what, 90 to what, 90? 97 was the end of the court case 98 was when was when we actually left the 4AC and they left 4AC is that because they said right you're now bankrupt no no we went to the pleasure rooms right and I did two and three quarter years at the pleasure rooms but as much as I was bankrupt the people we had in there Les he'd fronted it out of us and that meant that we could carry on there as well but I still had all those restraints where you know you have to be careful what you do and you're not allowed to do this, that and the other. But even that time that was at a pleasure room wasn't good.

45:01No, okay. Were you in a good place mentally? Nah. Nah. Were you using? Yeah. Lots? Oh, banging it left, right and centre. Like what? I think they did. I was pattering my nose left, right and centre. Okay. And I think that's what I suppose kept me going. I don't know. But that didn't stop that side of it. Yeah. You know, as much as I wasn't such an e-monster, I was still going there every Friday, every Saturday. I was still getting through the night, still doing what Joe does. And yeah, it didn't stop, unfortunately. And continued right to the end of the time at the pleasure rooms. But then, you know, when that come on top, that really was, I thought that, I didn't ever think I'd do another party.

45:42Yeah. You know, that was awful. The feeling that I had, you know, that I'd lost, you know. Everything around. Yeah, everything. Did you change as a person?

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46:58I think so. Yeah. I think I grew up. Yeah. You know, I think I sort of realized that, you know, the world weren't made for you. And that, you know, you would have to get back out there, maybe change, you know, choose a different route. And I did. You know, I came away from there. I was very, very fortunate at that time, that 2002 sort of time. I managed to break away, looked after property for someone who had quite a lot of property. I seeped the door. I carried on doing it. I carried on doing it. Managed to, you know, during that time, the rebuild, put my kids through school, university. fortunately all three children got degrees so you know for me that was quite something to have you know all have done that i certainly you know with two of them certainly um you know i really did have to graft as it were and i did and i didn't stop until i knew that that was all right and i was right what was that feeling like being the main face nightclub world partying load of cash times are good and all of a sudden get whacked to go right you're now I remember the first couple of things I did I had an association with the outlaws motorcycle club I knew the president mark and quite a few of the fellows that was lunatics but they also had building companies and I knew one of them quite well mark is here I'll give you some work all right sweet and I'll never forget the first time I met him in a van six o 'clock in the morning brought me by bow oh my god not for you I'm in a van someone's stunk been out all night and I'm like what and then they've took me to this place in Dulwich alright we need a trench there hey and I'm like oh this stuff I don't like this but eventually you know I'd managed to slip out of that you know and once I got my hands on looking after the property working for a very very good friend of mine who turns out to be probably my saviour if I'm honest about him, his old woman, probably the reason why I'm sitting here because they did give me a break and they did look after me.

49:13And, you know, I don't think I let them down. I think I went for it and, you know, I was blinkered as far as I'm not going to do that crazy stuff and I'm going to sort things out and I did. Did you ever think at any point in your journey from the football world to the boozer world to the illegal raves in the warehouses to having your own nightclub, successful club and Labyrinth was like the main name around London time. Was there a point in there where you were close to losing your life? I think getting weighed in, there was a football incident in 1977. And I've been creeping over Millwall for quite a while.

49:51You know, I knew quite a lot of them. Good pals of mine, you know, Tony Casey, Ginger Brixton, you know, the late Billy Myers. They was all good mates. I've met them through the London United thing where all the teams in London joined up for a couple of years. and I laughed it over there I thought it was brilliant over there but then Millwall got relegated and there was this anti-Tottenham thing that crept in over Millwall you know they did the panorama programme you know Tottenham you know yeah and then we was over Dulwich one night it was about seven or eight and it was a little firmer Millwall in the other part I don't know what made me I had a Spurs supporters club badge and one of them clocked it and said something I said shut up and next thing I know we were having a chair up it was a booze at the Uplands Tavern in Uplands Road, Dulwich.

50:33It wasn't a football. Yeah. And then we've had a couple of little tear-ups in the boozer and then we've come out and they've obviously found some of their pals because as coming down the road to this other little firm and, you know, who knows, maybe I should have had it on my toes. I didn't. I fronted it and I got weighed in big time, stabbed in the back, stabbed in the eye, stabbed in the leg, me head, everything, done me proper proper weighed me in it's so bad that when people came to see me in hospital they walked past the bed thought it was elephant man my head was up and i was on an arch thing because i got stabbed in the back they missed my spinal cord by god knows how far i know that was like whoa slow yourself down and i did i fronted it that night i should have run all my pals run and um yeah that was a lesson you know and that was you know one of the governors from over there who I thought I half knew.

51:30Yeah. But there you go. That's as far as that went. But yeah, that was a bit of a turning point. I mean, you know, I'd had someone turn up at the pickle house, you know, pointing a gun at me. But, you know, it is what it is. You know, that's more like an argument thing that was over in no time. But getting stabbed up over in Dulwich that night, that sort of taught me a lesson. You know, you're not infallible. You can be. And I did. I got smashed changed me a lot I still went to football after that I still even got nicked at football after that but in saying that I wasn't quite so you know front up front as it were I was like and here I step out of the back but then I got nicked looting away I ended up getting nine months for that and that was the fine I can't do this what did you get nicked for?

52:20Raring yeah it was you know always fine always you know always connected to that but in saying that You got banged up for nine months. Yeah. I got nine months for it. And when I was in the boob, I met quite a few people who I saw afterwards and become quite friendly with. And I'll still never forget it. I remember someone saying, so let me just get this right. You go to football and there's a geezer with a red and white scarf. And it's a different color to the scarf you've got on. So you go and bash him. Yeah. And how do you justify that? You can't, can you? You can't. And I was, you're right.

52:56And this is a villain who's talking, you shoppy little fool. What's the matter with you? You're a clued up kid. What are you doing? And that was, you know, them talking to me in there. Nothing to do with the prison or the screws, but these, you know, the fellas that I met in there saying, Joe, what are you doing? You know, stop this nonsense. And I got out Christmas Eve 1980. And fortunately, nothing since then, you know, apart from, you know, getting the not guilty with the fact. I think I pretty much got out. I got nicked Coventry at home, but that was, you know, being drunk. But then, you know, it was over.

53:30It really was over. You know, I still went to quite a few matches. I still, you know, loved the Spurs, but not quite so involved, you know, as perhaps before, you know, a little bit subdued there. Lesson learned. How would you explain the 90s in London in the nightclub world? the 90s we've we became detached a bit from it in so far as you know we stayed at the four aces right until Christmas Eve 98 and we were there all through that time there were all these other parties going off and I knew about them and very rarely when you're doing Friday night and Saturday night and your own gaff the only chance you know we've found a gaff on a Sunday you know there was one or two places like that but that was about it really most of it was geared up for 12 dorston lane what we're doing our place and you know we would be there friday would be there saturday i mean somebody after parties on the sunday were ridiculous you know they would go on till monday tuesday even i remember one party went on to wednesday it was chaos it was you know i remember getting rotten yeah and thinking i can't do it you know but uh yeah the 90s was for me more or less totally contained around 12 dorston lane for races.

54:48It was every week. Did you see the explosion of nightclubs though in the 90s? All of a sudden it just went mad, didn't it? Yeah, there was a lot of places opened up. Telepathy opened up down at Marsgate Lane. AWOL opened up at the Angel Wizzling. So yeah, the competition got a lot more but same again, our heads were buried in what we was doing. Even the flying, we never used to do that. We would send people out giving out their little leaflets and all that stuff. But for us, the 90s was, to me, totally 12 Dawson Lane. Yeah. It was, I mean, literally eight years solid. Yeah. And that, you know, after that, I can't honestly say I took any notice of what was going on around me.

55:27But I do remember lots of gaffs opening. You know, there were places opening down on the coast and here, but that didn't exist before. And I dare say down here in Bournemouth may be the same where places got late licenses and things like that. They were non-existent at first. I think Four Aces was one of the first to get a late license. but then all of a sudden the bars started to get late licenses in the 2000s they started eating away at the clubs a little bit then the smoking ban come in and all these things started to change yeah of course but I don't think people realise I don't know whether you know the four aces never had no alcohol license there was no boots just the water and soft drinks it was all water soft drinks and doodah that was it that was how it was made up that was and they absolutely loved it there were lots and lots of people who would say it's brilliant without the boots you know no drunks and stuff like that because you know you have booze you get that i mean now it's integrated a lot more you know now i see it everywhere you go yeah you you it's strange because you know i asked for a southern comfort and coke somewhere the other week 15 questions imagine that hey that's madness isn't it so you know we never really came across that at the four aces the 90s for us we was buried buried in the four aces buried dealing with the court case you know and you know getting on with life i suppose never really went to too many other didn't go to any of the big parties just blanked them let's do the four aces yeah and that's what we started in the world oh absolutely have them breathed it did you open any other nights or just friday saturdays moving into sundays yeah with we for a little spell i mean we had a spell at a place in wood green in 89 called silver city and they approached us after we was at the four aces they could see how well we was doing and for a few weeks we went back and we were doing two nights at the same time.

57:11In the same, you know, one doing a night at Silver City, doing a night. But that got too much, you know, trying to pull it. And for us, took the fun out of it a bit. So, you know, we're swerving on that. So who were the big promoters you remember back in the day? Your Genesis and all the others. The early ones, but the ones that followed onto that, I mean, you know, Fantasia, Dreamscape. And, you know, quite a bit later on, there was like One Nation. There was, don't get me wrong, amazing parties in their own right. You know, very, very busy. very much part of the scene and talked about. But yeah, to me, they were the follow on from the first wave, as it were.

57:47And it didn't really go to any of them. I'm too busy doing your own thing. Yeah, absolutely. What was your world after throwing the parties? It sounds like you kind of hit a rock bottom at the whole thing that went on in the court case and then the bankruptcy and then people started losing people. and yeah I mean you know what there was a few years certainly after we did the party at the Mayfield Club and it got you know it fell apart yeah and then you know me and Sue as I say unfortunately like that went wrong yeah and you know I didn't really want to know yeah I'd had enough you know I mean I was like leave me out and I had to try and find something to concentrate on and you know me kids was along then and you know Sue had gone took the kids with her so I had to deal with what went with that yeah How old would you have been then?

58:39In your 40s at the time? Nothing. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, 68 now, so you're well into it. 68? Yeah. Mate, you don't know that at all. Yeah, 68 a couple of weeks ago. What's that like, being 68? Ah, difficult. Is it? Yeah, without a doubt. You realise as these sort of, from 60 onwards, a little bit tired, you know, not quite so keen to get up in the morning. Yeah, it is what it is, mate. But then there's that other side of me. Don't want to turn it in. Don't want to let it go. Nah. You know, I've been out quite a bit. You know, even do a love of parties. Oh, absolutely. I'm still in the slide, isn't I?

59:18I'm still in the slide down a wall. But then I've got this mad thing. I've got this mad thing. Remember when COVID started? Yeah. When COVID started, everyone's paranoid anyway, aren't they? So everything stops. Yeah. And I keep getting headaches. I'm like, what's this? And I'm still, you know, doing what I do. Yeah. but indoors more. you know, I've still had a bit of an habit and, um, all right. And I start getting every day headache. What? Yeah. What's this? And then it goes to two. Okay. And at one point it even went to three. So by then I'm already on the doctor and you can't get to see a doctor.

59:55Yeah. I've seen this doctor on, I'm having low conversations online. It was mental. It took eight months for me to get an MRI scan. Eight months. I put up with it almost every day. I'm taking, I didn't know you could buy Nurofen 50 at a go. You could buy 50, and I did. And I was taking them. And then, you know, when I eventually got to see the doctor and gave me the MRI scan, I said, oh, acute sphenoiditis. Well, what's that? Is that like ringing? You know, your sinuses. Well, you can cause yourself problems with your sinuses if you get too involved. Yeah. Well, above your sinuses, you've got these other glands, your sphenoid glands.

1:00:30And I've got crap up in there. How many years have you been doing Charlie for, you reckon? I think I probably first started in the Pickle House. Yeah. You know, in the old days, you know, when I was a kid. Yeah. You know, we'd start going to the skinny, suede parties and that. Then it was all doobs or blues, you know what they call them, or dexes or bombers and all that. And I had a bit of that and a bit of that, you know, and as things transgressed, even, you know, during the years, you know, there was trips come out. Yeah. You know, the first time in the 70s, not the race time. You know, I don't like them.

1:01:03They're a bit weird and wonderful. I'll stick the you know what I know and whatever but the rave parties was just unreal you know come on you know if anyone turns around and says that they're not attached to that they're telling stories because it is you know I don't know whether the parties would have existed if you take the E and the C out yeah no way yeah agree totally agree what was it like actually the pound note you were running with the club do you have dealers your own dealers in the club as well um no no you know it was it was one thing me and Sue never did we never hooked up people to do our stuff don't get me wrong there was people and they did look after us and I suppose that was the price but in saying that we was always the promoter side of things I didn't really want that to be part of the package I had people around me don't get me wrong and they would bang at it but in saying that that wasn't really a bit of us and I knew what went with that if they come through your door and find that you're getting you know proper birds yeah yeah what did you how do you see the music scene change over the years when you were doing the rose to when you finished labyrinth before aces full circle yeah the some of the early music was brilliant in my opinion you know those early tunes that came out um were just something else you know i loved it to bits um city lights and um big fun and all those early ones that dragged everyone in but then you know you start getting up to the the sort of you know early to midnight is the hardcore started appearing and you know champion sound come along and and and you i felt it changing you know i moved the house music downstairs upstairs was the the hardcore so consequently that were that was how the club was you know molded as it were main floor hardcore downstairs when we eventually opened upstairs the top room that was trance yeah and then you know bit by bit as you probably know the hardcore transpired you know drum and bass come along and it was a few of them hardcore tunes actually you know had drum and bass or the early stuff in them and that had transgressed and you know before i knew it no you know that's certainly 94 5 6 7 jungle jungle drum and bass jungle took over upstairs but then you know i'd taking the easy route, I've gone downstairs.

1:03:25I like all the old stuff, the old house, the secret stuff like that. That jungle weren't really a bit of me. And some of the problems that, you know, the jungle brought, you know, people smoking a pipe and things like that. In the club. And it stinks. Yeah, mate. You know, it's an evil smell. It wasn't. And we really did, you know, I don't think anyone ever got thrown out of, you know, where we were for puffing or this or that. But when that come along, You know, my rules and regs with that was if you sniff it, find out who it is, they go. Yeah. And that way, unfortunately, we got rid of it. Yeah.

1:04:01We didn't have such a problem with that. Did you find over that period you were there there was much ag at the club? None. None. Our security was... They bang on, were they? They were animals. Were they? I mean, people knew it as well. Didn't do stuff. No one really came there to do anything like that. you know them fellas that we had on that door there I'd pull them up against anyone and I've been you know I've been about I've seen this one and that one they were something else yeah they was something well East London is a tough part of the country right well they was all out of King's Gym Dorsten yeah and it was you know most of them big you know very big fellas yeah are they a little about today well unfortunately our Ed Dorman Terry passed away a couple of years ago he was something else but the others I think they're still about Barry and Floyd and Sylvester.

1:04:51You know, same again, you know, I think that they could deal with anything. Yeah. That's a nice feeling, isn't it? They looked heartless. Yeah. They covered. And you looked after them as well. Oh, absolutely. You know, they got well looked after. And that, you know, that's how me and Sue was. Everyone got paid at Labyrinth, you know, even the lowliest. And we would always start lots of people. We liked giving people a break from the dance floor to the DJ box was, you know, I liked that room, you know. And there's quite a few I can think of that went up that route. And now they're doing really, really well, and there's no better feeling.

1:05:24And Daniel Bunterin as a prime example. And I loved that side of it, my mates, because that's what we started it with. That was my mates, Ginge, Vinyl, Matt. We'd give them, most of them, we'd give them their name, Adrian H., Easy Mo. His name was Mo Amid, and he was easygoing. you know you know Vinyl Matt his name you know Matt Maurice Vinyl Matt yeah you know Ginge got Ginge around Josh done you know Adrian Adrian Aide yeah and that was what really kicked us off at Dawson Lane because I said to you we was on the floor you know I couldn't go and get a Groove Rydie or Fabio or Inge Richards or you know it wasn't going to happen we didn't have that sort of dope to get me off those unknown DJs you brought through the ranks they They smashed it.

1:06:15I mean, we didn't really need to look elsewhere too much. We had Sarah HB join us. We had Kenny Ken join us. And that was enough. You know, the people loved them. Was there ever a point you took a bit of a gamble and went on to any bigger DJs and give it a good go and went, you know, it doesn't work for us. Let's leave that. Yeah. Go on. Yeah, we was at Bagley. We did a dozen parts. It was a bag. We did a... The Prodigy Night in there was our best night. you know they came back as a bit of a thank you for us giving them a break so you gave prodigy a break given their first gig did you yeah they used to come down from brain tree in essex yeah and they was all dressed up in all the gear like they would black and white tops and stripes and fancy you know funny hats and all that and they was proper raver types yeah and you know we'd noticed them and we'd you know how i got to know um about flinty was that he was he sat up on the speakers he fell off one night and someone had come and got me and his fella fell off the speaker i didn't have a bar of soap yeah hey yeah and the speakers was right up in the air like but you know he'd come down with all this brain truth and there was a bird there jay and i was quite taken with us he was a bit of a darling yeah and um i remember being around them so i thought this mob are all right but then they had a manager asian geezer called ziggy yeah used to be an aluminum window salesman now he's their manager so he comes up to me one night he's got flinty with him they said break have a band I don't want to make me do it I think it was half to do with this bird this jay bird that I was quite keen on and I said yes and then I remember going back and saying how many of you is there well there's four in the band and four dancers I said I'll give you 80 quid alright sweet done two or three weeks later Prodigy turn up at 12 Dalston Lane do their first I didn't know that it was their first gig as a four piece Maxim had never played with them before that night and he turned up at the four races and Roger the Sandman was there and he'd done his bits and pieces and helped him get them up and running as it were but yeah the first two parties I ever did as a four piece unit was at 12th Austin Lane that was yeah it was saying else but they came back they did another party in Wales with 2000 AD they come back and have a party in Tottenham and that was brilliant but then when they come back to Bagley's we'd done a fifth birthday and we put thousands in.

1:08:37Yeah. I couldn't believe it. Yeah. People were climbing over roofs and fences and bevers and all sorts to get in there that night and they come back to Bagley's and, you know, I haven't got to tell you what happened to them. They just went zoom, you know what I mean, through the roof. I see, wasn't it? Yeah, very much so. And, yeah, there's another little, you know, marker in our list, as it were, Prodigy. They started at Labyrinth. Amazing. And when anyone says, you know, I've looked for an interview that they did a little while ago and one of my I love it Flintney Joe broke the band yeah after we played for Joe we didn't stop working for five years yeah do me happy days yeah you know happy days they don't owe me nothing I'm pleased as punch just so they listen to this though I hope so they'll clock it I hope so yeah mate so what does 12th Dalston Road look like today they pulled it down yeah they put a library of three blocks of flats they put one block up Labyrinth Towers on where we were.

1:09:36Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Charlie Collins was one of the first sound systems. You know, I mean, Duke Reed, Shelley, all them sound systems from Reggae. Charlie Collins was one of the first to go in there. And one of the blocks they called Collins and Newton Dunbar, the owner of the four-way sort of governor. Yeah. One block's called Dunbar Tower and then my block is Labyrinth Tower. They built it right on, you know, where the club was. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what's there now. I'll break in when you go back and look at it or just get memories? No, no. I want my club back. Yeah, for sure. If Thorsten Lane was there tomorrow, I would go back him here tomorrow.

1:10:08Yeah, mate. I knew it. I could walk around there blindfolded. Yeah. It was my gaffe. Yeah. You know, it was my world. I loved it. I loved everything that went on there, the people that went there, the people I worked with. You'll never replicate that again. That was saying it was, you know, that was, you know. Love your passion, Joe. United. You ain't lost it, have you? No, I haven't. No, you ain't lost your passion. I still want it. Yeah, mate. Yeah. Joe, I've absolutely loved this, mate. Good. I've absolutely loved it I was apprehensive I've got to say but you know what I'm glad I came yeah mate I'm glad you made the effort thank you very much indeed that's a great job mate you're a gentleman thank you good man Joe pleasure hi guys I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did can you do us a favour and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show cheers guys

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