#315. Military Trained Killer & Ex Doorman - Mo Teague

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2:27You're a trained killer. How did you end up on Danny Dyer's Most Deadliest Men? On my way to meet a guy named Mo T. He didn't knock me spark out. For f***ing sake, Mo. Slow down. Capability and capacity. Everybody has the capability to hurt another human being. But not everybody has the capacity. At six years old, me and my sister were trying to kill our mother. We put trip hazards on the stairs. We tried to make poison. If I'm going to tell the story, I have to tell the whole story. but he didn't think anything of it. Around violence as a kid, have you got to a point where you're just immune to violence?

2:58Yeah, especially when I started working the doors. I knew I was in trouble when I started enjoying it. You're going to kill somebody or you're going to go to prison. I think this might be the first time I've ever spoken about this on a podcast. There's the legal aspect of violence and the moral aspect. I did hurt people seriously. I had a tip-op said, if you've got anything in your house that you shouldn't have, get rid of it. I might have one in my bag. What is that?

3:24so you can't get nicked with it. Well...

3:53Mo, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you very much. Good to be here. Really looking forward to this one. I've had so many people reach out to me and go, you've got to get Mo Teague on, you've got to get Mo Teague on. I just couldn't find you anywhere. I'm surprised, mate, because I don't think I'm hard to find. But actually you had to type in Maurice Teague. Yeah, that's, I'm not too fond of that. No. It depends how you say it. You know, a French lady said to me, Maurice, and it sounded better. Yeah, OK. but Morris I don't like yeah yeah well you're finally here mate and there's loads of people out there who've been writing messages you've got to get motik I know you're finally here and it's amazing you only live up the road as well perfect yeah perfect anyway let's roll all the way back how did you end up on Danny Dyer's Most Deadliest Men well actually it was through a friend of mine called Jamie Clubb and um he was contacted by the company who were making the show and um he put my name forward and then we did a provisional meet and um they thought there was a story there and that's how it went i was um i had a little bit of a profile in the martial arts world i was writing for martial arts magazines at the time so i had a little bit of a profile and um and that's how it came about and um yeah it's uh yeah it was all a little bit surreal at the time, but a good experience.

5:20And how long was Danny down there with you? How long did he spend down there? On and off for about three months. Was it? Yeah, on and off. Okay. Backwards and forwards. And then when we really went, I think it was about a week, I think solid. So he was backwards and forwards doing bits and pieces and then the final bit was about a week. Yeah. I had a little look last night and we were chatting just off air a minute ago. You know that was 2009? Mad. Mad. I can't believe it and then I can't believe it. So tell me your actual experience then with Danny was he just coming down and filming he wanted to get to know you better was he what was what went on for those three months?

5:59Yeah it's I mean Danny's just an actor people get Danny wrong yeah we're not friends I don't have a relationship or contact with him and but it was just to make a program and I think what they tried to highlight was the PTSD side of things. And that's what they wanted to do. But Danny, he was just very professional. Well, I say that most of the time. When he went off script a little bit, that's when I gave him a dig. I remember seeing that. You see that. But I got a lot of feedback, a lot of maybe criticism from some people saying I was a bully and whatever. But that was at the behest of the director, the producer guy, because Danny was playing up a little bit.

6:48He was being a little bit Danny, I suppose. And he said, can you sort him out? I said, well, you know, what do you want me to do? And he said, well, straighten him out. I said, well, so what, you know, how far? And he went up to you. and um so that's that's how that all came about that wasn't and the whole thing was wasn't really scripted and um they they had a direction that they wanted to go and i had to kind of keep reining them in because they didn't really have an idea of military life or yeah i think they thought we went camping and they they kind of wanted to can we put up a tent and like I said, it wasn't like that, you know.

7:29And, yeah, so that was how the Danny thing. He was a gentleman. He was a nice guy. Bit lightweight, I suppose. But he's an actor. He kept saying, you know, I'm an actor. That's what I do. And love him or hate me is like Marmite, isn't he? Yeah. I like Danny. Yeah, he's done well for himself. Considering where he was, what, 16 years ago, doing the documentaries and whatever, to where he is now pretty pretty special what he's done when he went for his standards i heard he had to borrow the taxi money to get to the to get to the show i think he was pretty skint yeah um but no he's done brilliantly well yeah and um like i say he's marmite isn't he i like him i like him a lot he didn't like me did he not no he didn't like he didn't often give him a couple of digs he wrote in his autobiography that i think he said he hated me is that right at the time oh i didn't know that yeah yeah yeah um i don't know if he understood what had gone on behind what had happened and it was all controlled you know i had a young lad helping me and it was all it was in a controlled environment you know maybe it looked worse than what it actually was i only give him a touch yeah but um because you had a you had a guy that's right because you had a guy come in he said he's my he'd be my guinea pig and this is what you do to someone in self-defense and this is how you can actually kill someone with your hands yeah and what was he was danny saying that you were bullying him or no people have said right i i think it i think it i think it painted so you can't tell the story you can tell a story of anybody i mean this will be a story yeah and we'll try and get as much of the story out as i can you know but it won't be everything yeah And so that was, they wanted to try and portray me as being violent and maybe a little bit mad through the PTSD.

9:25And I didn't like that PTSD. It's not madness. It's real. It's real, you know. And I went up to see the final to give my permission for them to put it out. I had to go up to London and see it. But what they put on the TV wasn't what I approved. you're joking me no no no it wasn't so there was a couple of bits in there I thought that they'd slowed things down and um made me look a little bit and I was a bit well you learn don't you yeah okay you learn and you and it gave me an insight into the you know when I see anything on tv now don't believe it don't believe it yeah you know what did you want taken out of it there was a there was a couple of bits i think that um in in the bar scene i think that they kind of done done some like facial expressions and things like that that made me made tried to make me look a bit crazy i suppose i haven't watched it since i couldn't watch it again i've watched clips yeah but um i haven't watched watched it back since but no it is what it is so were they were they wanting you to portray you in a different way do you think than actually work because you're an ex-military man and the feedback that i've got from all the military i know you're an extremely hard human being and everything you've learned over the years when you finish the military we'll go back into military in a minute when you finish the military did you have ptsd at what level because there's levels isn't there well if we go right back yeah wow i think that i think i mean um i was diagnosed with ptsd um i didn't seek it i think behaviorally through my experiences especially during the gulf war but i think i had i'm looking back now i'm reflecting you know you get to a certain point in your life and you look back and think well you know how did i get here yeah why did i get here and um i look back and um i think it's complex ptsd that i have so some people have it through maybe one major experience it could be a car accident it could be something major or it could be a lot of things that build and build and build until the dam finally burst if you like and um growing up was difficult we were abused as children physically mentally spiritually not sexually or anything like that but um home life growing up was i mean really bad really bad where did you grow up um mainly in in gosport but my dad was in the navy pompey yeah yeah but we you know we were navy brats so we we lived all around everywhere so you know i was always the new kid at school yeah so that made you the target yeah um but home life i think today would be in care if i give you an example at six years old me and my sister were trying to kill our mother we put trip hazards on the stairs we tried to make poison i mean at that age yeah my sister was a year older than me and uh it was it was an awful way to grow up so we were we were you know i mean we had to go and get switches sticks off the of the hedge you have to pick your own switch to be beaten with that sort of thing um by your mum by my mum now see you i think you have to understand i when my mum passed recently two years ago i loved her but it took her 40 years to say she loved me okay and i think that i have to understand as much why i am the way i am i have to understand the way she was you know she was irish she grew up in rural ireland in the 1930s hard tough yeah you know rural out in the middle of nowhere in the hills a darn life i mean and what they didn't consider it hard because everybody was the same when you're poor and everybody's the everybody's poor you don't know you're poor norm isn't it yeah it's just the norm yeah so i suppose i don't know see my dad was a sailor they met they should never have married there was conflict uh he was always away my mom lived she she come from rural ireland she was with all the prejudices that came with being an iris catholic in england in england my dad was a romantic he had this notion of a sweet iris colleen she was anything but he was a ticket out of ireland and he didn't come up to her expectations because he he was just a by the time she realized and they were married he was just a kind of buckshee sailor yeah really he was a he was an aircraft mechanic um but i think she wanted an officer i think that's maybe what she thought she was getting so she took her frustrations i suppose out on us kids and i don't know whether she was bipolar or had some condition and um it was hard for her it was hard for us my dad was always trying to get away were you fighting as a kid going to new schools and being picked on no i was no no no no i i i was um i grew up totally socially inept um just had no self-esteem they sent me to grammar school i went to grammar school in short trousers i don't know what sort of statement they were trying to make but i'm the only kid going to school in a grammar school secondary school with short trousers and a crew cut um and we're going back to the 60s now so it was like i was always the target but i used humor so i was the class clown to deflect all the kind of um the bullying so i could be accepted but that was the kind of my education suffered so i got to grammar school um my mum wanted me to be a priest or a doctor or a lawyer so she had these prejudices you know in ireland you have to be a priest or a doctor but just but just to just to hold back there being an irish person in england at time was tough yeah wasn't there lots of racism there wasn't there signs up like i've been told on on podcasts there's signs up back in the day with no blacks no irish no dogs and like yeah how mad is that yeah um and then conversely when we when we lived in ireland i wasn't accepted and we went i went to a catholic school with nuns and they didn't accept me because i had an english accent So it was just like, I don't know.

16:24I don't know if you know Viktor Frankl, who wrote a book called Man's Search for Meaning. And it's a famous book. He went to Auschwitz and he kind of wrote a book about why do some people survive and others didn't. And those who had a why, a reason to live, normally would survive. Well, my search was for identity. Who am I? because I'm told by my mum, you go to church, this is what you believe, and you go along with it. I mean, most people do. We live a life of default, most people, and I'm generalizing, obviously, as opposed to a life of purpose on purpose. So I kind of just went along, and then you join the military.

17:16It's the same thing. you're adopting other people's values yeah um and culture and everything else how old were you when you joined the military 16 okay i joined the navy navy and how many years were you in the military in total 15 okay yeah so not not very long really but long enough um so i joined the navy at 16 just to get away um just to get away how many years were you trying to kill your mum for do you think Oh, forever. It literally was. Why would she beat you? I think we, I'm not sure if it was, I'm not sure if it was, and my siblings, I got a brother and two sisters. Are you the oldest?

17:59No, I'm the second oldest. My sister's older. But I don't know. I mean, she'd never, even in like later years where we became friends, she would never talk about it. she would deny it wasn't that bad she knew yeah um and i i can forgive her you know um because how long did it take you to forgive her oh crikey i think probably 50 years how old are you today 67 67 okay so it was in a in her latter years before she was passed away that you could actually say, I've actually forgiven you? We never had that conversation, but I felt in my heart that I had. And she knew that. She never would. She wouldn't never address it.

18:55She knew. She knew. And my dad kind of, by default, was never there. He was in the Navy. Then when he left the Navy, he did contracting in the Middle East. Were you scared of your mum? as a child petrified but as an as an adult um i respected her um because i was i'm proud of my irish heritage i'm proud of that my aunties and uncles and all the family on that side my dad was the complete opposite they're all londoners so that we had the clash of cultures my dad went through the wars in the blitz and everything so it was a real clash and I'm as proud to be I've got dual nationality so I'm as proud to be British as I am Irish and um so yeah we know you know I don't know just kind of I still haven't worked it out to be honest if it took you 50 years to have that conversation like imagine holding on to all of that pain for that amount of time and not being able to go to your mum and go mum why did you do that why would you like that towards us and have that conversation do you ever have that conversation with her no never never before she passed she didn't have any words or no no no we never we never discussed it and um i feel a little bit i think i'm i'm really i think my brothers and sisters wouldn't like me talking about it yeah but i have to be i've always kind of i've made the decision at one point i'm gonna if i'm gonna tell the story i have to tell the whole story And so that was a big part of like the PTSD, like I say, I think was a gradual thing.

20:43It was just, um, I was, I think, yeah, I wouldn't say damaged per se, but, um, you know, the scars. Yeah. So, and it took me a long time to find out who I was and to forgive my mom. Um, and also, you know, I can't, you have to forgive yourself sometimes for some of the things that you've done. Yeah. And, uh, you know, you have to do that before you can forgive anybody else. So I didn't, I wouldn't be the person I am today and I'm, I'm happy with who I am today without my mom. Yeah. So I do thank her for that. Yeah. She toughened me up. It was tough. And I, I know so many people that have had tough upbringings.

21:30I'm not complaining. Yeah. um i wouldn't have it any other way well maybe maybe maybe as a child you know i feel sorry for that child that i was that makes sense yeah um yeah my friends felt sorry for me and they wouldn't come near the house and okay yeah she she was um yeah it was difficult when was it when you you were in military for 15 years if we talk about your military there when was it when you come decided because you're you're a trained killer like the stuff that you know and every the tactics you know and everything you you've learned over the 40 years in martial arts and i want to dig into that a little bit later because i'm fascinated by that okay i want to talk about your military life yeah 15 years of military life where did you go what countries do you go on tour to different countries what did you see uh it was a i suppose there was only island okay going on at the time i joined the guards the grenadier guards and at the time back in the 70s and 80s i would say it was the army 100 years ago in terms of the i think it was tougher than the foreign legion back in the day it was renowned for the the the bullying that went on because you've got like five six seven hundred guys yeah all full of testosterone all trying to be you know um top dog yeah top dog and um alcohol was a huge thing i went to my first posting was berlin and that was the days of the berlin wall checkpoint charlie so it was pretty full-on um what year we're talking here roughly 79 80 okay so um yeah the the bullying was i never got ironically i never got bullied in the army ironically did you ever bully anyone

23:27um i don't think so i mean where did where does be in a line yeah where's the line you know more piss taken fun and yeah i mean you have to stand up for yourself yeah i got gripped by my platoon sergeant. He was a legend, big P. Gripped. Yeah, okay. Up against the wall. And I think he was testing me, you know, and I just stared him out. He had me, my feet weren't touching the floor. He was a big old lump, like Popeye. Yeah. Well respected guy. And I think, I think he just found something wrong. There wasn't anything wrong, but he just wanted to test me. And he got me up against the wall by the throat and kind of just give me a gypsy's warning about something.

24:19And that was final. I never got bullied. I saw lots of bullying. Yeah. Proper. Did that bullying come when you got more power? I didn't really have any power. Not you? No. I was saying the bullying you saw within the military, it was obviously rife, but did that come when people had more power and they stepped up our gears? Yeah. yeah okay because there's there's like you you join and you're the lowest of the low so i mean some some of the things that would happen um for example you're the new guy you you turn up somebody wants a pizza so you have to like two o 'clock in the morning we're in berlin so somebody comes in he's drunk he's been to the naffy or mess or whatever wakes you up out your bed you're asleep i mean it never happened to me but i've seen it happen go and get me a pizza so there's a pizza place open down the road you have to break out of barracks because you can't check out so you're climbing over the barbed wire fence or whatever you're going to buy a pizza with your own money so you have to buy it and you have to get that pizza back and give change he hadn't given you any money yeah and um and you probably get a slap for the privilege of going to get him a pizza and it was that sort of thing you know if anybody wanted anything it was you know they called them crows you're a crow yeah and you're a crow until the next crow joins the next intake comes and then you know it might take a couple of years for you to be accepted um yeah it was it was just it was just um violence for violence sake it was you know people just beat you up or people would beat people up for no reason they get drunk alcohol is a massive thing yeah and the bullying culture um so that was those two things don't go well together a lot of violence a lot of fighting a lot of fighting in bars with other regiments we shared um we shared a barracks with the royal regiment of fusilliers when nigel ben was in yeah tough tough man yeah and yeah yeah he was he was there they um we had a still based in Portsmouth no no this is Perlix oh it's Berlin okay yeah so we um we black people weren't allowed to join the guards back then you had to be white and they had obviously the black fusilliers they had a lot of blacks yeah so there's a lot of racial tension uh we did um a joint they put a show on in the naffy and we were sat one side of the hall of the naffy and they were on the other side and they had a comedian who thought it would be a good idea to make jokes across sorry and um and it all kicked off and it all kicked off and there was a You know, it started with like it normally does.

27:21One beer can would go flying across, followed by two, followed by 20. And then it was all in. They found an ear on the floor the next day. I mean, it was proper, a proper punch up, if you like. But we didn't think anything of it. We just didn't think anything of it. So you've been around violence as a kid. You've gone into military around violence. Have you got to a point where you're just immune to violence and violence is not a problem for you? It's just part of my life. yeah especially when i started working the doors i knew i was in trouble when i started enjoying it yeah and i was getting involved in things that i didn't need to get involved in i mean you know chasing people i was running the way off the door to chase people halfway down the town to give them a good hiding so i mean and i was enjoying it and i spoke to jeff thompson yeah about it and he said you're going to kill somebody or you're going to go to prison so um it wasn't long after that that i got off the doors but yeah no violence is either as a victim or as somebody who dished it out if you like um yeah it's always been a part of my life and i'm trying to get away from that i resent i resent it now being taken to that place yeah it doesn't happen so often but it still happens not on my behalf but normally other people you know that's the way it goes how good were you at violence um god that's that's a question isn't it i've never lost a fight i when i was working the doors i never lost a button on my shirt and people were buying new jackets all the time so I worked the doors for more than 10 years.

29:11I never lost a button on my shirt.

29:17And I think I was as lucky. I think luck plays a big part. But I understood violence. And I understand, you know, I could read a situation. I think that was my gift. I've always been a watcher of people. I kind of understand. I would say to people, it's going to kick off in a minute. because experts see what non-experts don't know if i can call myself an expert i don't think i would be here if i wasn't um so i was able to pick up the small signs and signals and then preempt any situation but so that was kind of my gift if you like i think so i don't if you can punch you can fight it's not always what you can give it's what you can take yeah um i wasn't scared i never i was i said to jeff thompson i'm worried because i never and i was working on my own for a long time at a biker bar and i was never scared i was and i think that was part maybe of my ptsd yeah but i was never scared i was getting into situations and um like i say probably as much by luck as anything how good was i i don't know subjective i don't know i've heard you were very good oh right and you know you're very good as well um but that was just your life of growing up with violence and going into military and then being violent on the door where did you learn all these different skills skills like you just said a minute ago if we roll back a little bit you were like if you can punch you can you can have a fight not necessarily if you can punch you might be a one lucky punch but after that you know you can wrap people up you can what things can you do to people that the majority of this country or the world don't actually really know some of the moves you've got and some of the things you do with the eyes and the nose and the ears what's the best way if someone was having to tear out of you now what's the best way you would deal with it I'll take his eye out yeah you can't fight because if you get a speck of dust in your eye yeah you're like oh my god you know something in my eye yeah and you say to somebody and they can't see anything but to you it's right now imagine having a finger in your eye okay um so that that would be my we talk about capability and capacity everybody has the capability to hurt another human being and to kill but not everybody has the capacity as a human to inflict violence and another human i have no qualms you know i could step out of here do something and then just come in and carry on the conversation like nothing had happened and that was and and uh that worried me it worried me because i you know i have killed people and um i don't say that as a boast or anything else i just say that as a matter of fact um i don't lose any sleep over it because i can justify it to myself so i don't lose sleep at night and i can look at myself in the mirror um but i think where people fall down is tactics so people talk about tactics even in the military I don't think they know what they're talking about.

32:52But to me, say, for example, timing beats speed. So somebody might be faster than me. But if I hit them first, it doesn't matter how fast they are because my timing beats their speed. And there was John Wayne, who was a big hero of mine growing up. His last film was called The Shootist. And he was a gunfighter, he was an old gunfighter. and somebody asked him you know you're not a brilliant gunfighter but you always win you never lose and he said well and i'm paraphrasing now it's about willing he said some men before they draw will blink or draw a breath he said i won't i'm willing i'm ready to go now and i think well whilst most people are thinking about it and they're warming up it's already done and it's that mindset I think so how good you have to be just have to be better than the other guy or guys or whatever and like yeah it's it's knowing where the line is it's knowing when how is easy where is easy but it's when so timing is everything to me yeah how many people have you killed it wasn't something i'm comfortable talking about two okay yeah so one was um one was in in iraq um and one was um me and a friend of mine you know live a bit like sliding doors so going out for a drink with a friend um back in the day two young men and we've got enough money for another beer or a taxi ride home so being young men we went fuck it well have another beer um you know we were fit young guys i think it was about eight miles back to to where we were going so we had another beer and then we started to jog back we went through an area uh it was about i don't know four o 'clock in the morning probably and um we went through some less salubrious areas and there was a gang of people and they had they were stood on a street corner and they wanted to tax us for going through their area and um they had butterfly knives when they would you know doing all the twirling and everything with butterfly knives so we just went and we legged it my the guy who i was with was like over six foot tall he's a big guy he took off and he's running in front of me it was on cobbled streets so he was well in front of me but he slipped he went over i ran past him i turned around to come back and this other guy is just about to catch up with him with with the knife and um i killed him this guy the guy who i was with that night himself was stabbed to death about a year later so live by the sword die by the sword sort of thing um yeah so that that was i can justify it i'm not i'm not worried about it i lose no sleep and then I shot a guy in Iraq and off where were you when you killed the guy not in Iraq where were you in the first one in a foreign country okay I'll put it there in a foreign city yeah how did you feel once you killed him how did you kill him they were digging the cobbles up so the cobbles were being put up and relayed and there was a pile of cobbles stones on the side.

36:54And I just, I didn't even think about it. I just saw my friend down on the ground and I picked up this cobble stone and hit this guy around the head. I mean, I didn't tap him. Yeah. I probably really smashed, you know, I can, you know, yeah. And, um, yeah, that was, that was that. how did you feel what did you do straight after we never spoke about it again okay we never we spoke very little after that you and your mate yeah okay i mean we weren't make mates we knew each other yeah so we had no reason we just we just happened to meet up in this club yeah and well you know how you doing yeah i haven't seen you for a while and then he went back to what he was doing and i went back to what i was doing i'm being a little bit vague yeah you know I hear you.

37:45I hear you. I hear you. Because other people that might, I've never named the names. I don't want to keep it like that. People might guess, but. Yeah. How did you feel the next morning knowing you killed someone? Or were you like, get me out of this country? No, not at all. I didn't, I wasn't worried about that I'd killed somebody. I was just worried about getting caught. Yeah. That there would be an investigation. it transpired that they were illegal immigrants so they weren't citizens of the country so they were they were Turkish and they were illegals and like nothing ever came of it nothing I don't know how they ever would have traced it back to us anyway yeah and the second time in Iraq tell me about that time when you kill someone in Iraq okay um again I mean I mean it was only a hundred hour war it was a very short almost embarrassed to call it a war um but I went I went as an individual I didn't I had to be sponsored to go because the job that i was doing in london um i was a photographer and um because i because i'd done intelligence work i'd done an um an intelligence photography course taking pictures of bad guys yeah so to the army i'm a photographer yeah although i wasn't yeah um uh so i wanted to go the gulf war kicked off and my job so i badgered my boss who's a full colonel i need to go i want to go i don't want to miss out all soldiers want to go yeah you know yeah um and so i had to find somebody that would take me so the cold stream guards were going and but they had to sponsor me it sounds crazy but because i had qualifications i had an intelligence background um i i i went to take happy snaps before the war started you know this is me in the desert these guys these guys want a picture this company wants a picture go and take a picture once the war started i had to collate i had to go around like overrun positions iraqi positions collect anything that was of intelligence value documents things like that um i knew all the weapon systems so i knew what weapon systems that they had sighting systems i knew all the documentation to take um take photographs where applicable and then they got sent back to higher higher intelligence who could then you know make make sense as part of the intelligence picture so i was on um we were on um an artillery position there was no one there we'd we'd actually driven in soft skin vehicles land ravers onto the position position through a minefield unknowingly and so we got onto the position and there were stragglers on every position that we went to so a lot of them had fled already surrendered or whatever and I went on to the um we were looking for souvenirs as well um and I'll tell you about that as well um so I I was in this command bunker that was a big complex so I'm looking for souvenirs and then suddenly this Iraqi appeared and he had a pistol in his hand and I just shot him twice um so it was just a it was just like that it just it was just like he he was there I wasn't expecting him to be that I was wary yeah I was switched on um but it happened so quickly um yeah I just I shot him twice um

42:06again justified and given the context of everything that i saw the mass destruction and death um it doesn't seem like anything that you know i mean it's a human life i felt worse funny enough ironically we found a dead iraqi in in out in the middle of nowhere and um he'd been blown up and we buried him and it was very poignant because i thought where the end his probably his family are probably still praying for him he's probably a father a son a brother whatever i know he's dead they don't they're probably still at home waiting praying whatever and now i'm going to put him in the ground so we you know as we were putting him on the shovel bits are falling off you know he's in pieces basically and we buried him and we said a little prayer and marked it but that kind of felt more poignant um in a human aspect than killing somebody so i i i think this might be the first time i've ever spoken about this on a podcast I was kind of do I talk about it do I not talk about it should I talk about it but yeah that's okay it's done now I did write about it many years ago in a Master's magazine and I do talk about it on my seminars but yeah can't take it back absolutely going back when you're on a one on one with someone on how do you feel when you got one or two or three fellas in front of you well if you i think it's more humane to knock somebody out i don't want to be rolling around on the floor yeah right so whoever's the man and you can normally tell he's the one in the front he's the one with the mouth yeah the other two will probably step back a little bit i'm going to jump in if they get but if you take this guy out and then obviously it's all the verbal to go with it you know you fucking want someone you're backing it up that way you know um yeah they generally don't want it so you take this guy out number one and it's done generally how easy is it for you you said the first thing you do is take someone's eyes what give me an example and i don't give an example in fact i don't want you to take my eye but yeah well i just want to know what goes for your brain you're there i'm about to have a terrible sound like are you going straight in for the eye are you how what are you going in for are you because i've seen you also flick people in the eye flick like that's a really powerful thing isn't it yeah yeah yeah for sure i mean it's um it depends on the context yeah i think there's there's the legal aspect of violence and the moral aspect the law is set can tell you what you can and can't do that's it your morality see i always used to say it's not what you did it's what you say you did so like back in the day in those cctv yeah so you could pretty much do anything um and history is written by the winners right i think churchill said that um

45:35so i got no compunction because i could i don't want to be feeding through a straw in a hospital i don't want my kids to come and see me in hospital i don't want to see i don't want to be lowered into the ground thinking i should have handled that better yeah um i'm you know but i think your morality is down to you to a certain extent society has laws and unwritten laws you know we know what's right and wrong i was never into gratuitous violence per se and you know as chasing people off the doors it's always scumbags and people that i thought not not that i'm the you know the law or anything but i thought somebody deserved it and normally normally the way that would happen would be say for example back in the day you had you know you know back in the days when the club shut at two o 'clock and um people would queue to get in the clubs and you could turn people away for maybe they had too much to drink got trainers on or whatever and you might say to somebody sorry mate you're not coming in and then he turns around and bangs out this guy with his girlfriend totally minding his own business out of frustration or anger because he's a fucking scumbag yeah so i'm not having that i'm not having that and um so you know he he's off down the road and i'm off to chasing him and i'll catch him yeah um and it it became a thing i mean i've chased people all over the place literally running um and catch him yeah yeah not many people got away um yeah but just it was just it was a crazy time what years we're talking here those 10 year period was the 90s yeah yeah yeah 90s i'm i mean i was twice the size yeah i was pulling some big weights and um you know i was a bit of a lump i'm not the same person now that i was there's still maybe in there can you still have it today Yeah.

47:41Yeah. I was rolling around on the floor. I had an incident about two years ago. Just driving into town, I had shorts and flip-flops. Where were you? Whereabouts? On Portland. Coming off Portland into Weymouth on the beach road. And it's like I'm meeting my children for breakfast. And it's like a nice sunny summer morning. I don't know, it must have been about nine o 'clock. People are going to work, busy road, a single file, you know, one lane each side with islands in the middle. so you couldn't overtake so there was a guy behind me he must have been late for work and he was a passenger in the car and he's i can see him in my mirror he's giving it like all the wanker signs and everything so we get to um he's trying to overtake him he's slow and whatever so we get into a line of traffic and stop next thing like that my door's open and he's punching me in the fucking head so he's like now because he was the passenger i didn't see him get out he got in the blind side come around anyway next minute we're rolling around on the floor and i'm thinking i'm 65 what am i doing he's crying i'll get on top of him i mean he did catch me you know i was marked up and everything i did i got him down um and that's when training pays off yeah um so i got him down on on top of him and i would have hurt him but his i think it was i don't think it was his girlfriend but maybe his sister something like that said oh don't hurt him don't hurt him he's crying young man probably in his 30s he's probably been on something because it's like nine o 'clock and when he's right raging so i thought yeah i can still do it i've still got it and i can still take it yeah because he banged me a couple of times but um yeah so when you're on so tell me what you what you've learned what have you learned over the years with violence with mixing mixed martial arts MMA or jiu-jitsu mixed with everything else I'm really intrigued to know what you've got in your locker well fighting with I do a lot of knife work now so um yeah I mean I've you don't need more you just need the right stuff at the right time i think you need obviously you need to be able to hit you know if you can't punch you can't fight forget it that's most most fights i hate the word street fight i don't like it i'm just interested i'm not interested in mutual consent why you know people get paid a lot of money for fighting by mutual consent right um but if i'm attacked and i teach people how to defend themselves when they're attacked so in other words i don't want to fight and you do but i have a right to self-defense and um yeah it's not it's not more it's just the right stuff so number one you've got better you know you need a good punch you need to know where to punch where the knockout buttons are um and that would be what on the chin yeah on the chin temple throat neck anything anything this here what's your what's your uh choice ear slap ear slap ear slap is it yeah the ear slap that was my thing what's a straight flat hand flat hand on the air okay did you ever have the fear of killing anyone with a punch the size you were at and the power you had no never worried about it i i hurt people serious i did hurt people seriously to the point where they needed skin grafts yeah i took body parts off people i've took lips off people i've bitten people's ears off things like that um i don't know it was just you do what you gotta do and that also you know your reputation i've never had any trouble really and no legacy and a lot of the a lot of always i mean they were young men out doing what young men do drugs and alcohol that's what they do you know when they get leery and um they they want to come in the club and play up and my job you're not doing it here but they you know it's it's just they're doing what they do and i do what i do you know and um but i used to um mindset is everything so like when i was when i was so when i was working in the biker bar it was jeans and t-shirt and then i went on the door it was dicky bones right so i would get into the mindset so that i knew a lot of guys take them take them time to warm up on the door but me i'm as soon as i got there i'm ready because like i had a ritual so i would iron my shirt and i would put on some like heavy music or the hacker you know the hacker put the hacker on i guess you go in there you're going right yeah yeah yeah so i'm I'm like, by the time I get to, I'm good to go.

52:41So I'm into the mindset. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm pumped. I'm ready. Because sometimes you get to work and it's on already, right? So the mindset is a big thing. So that was my ritual in. I had a ritual out because I think a lot of people get defined. I don't want to be defined by violence. Maybe I was at the time. I don't want to be defined as a violent person. I'm capable of violence. But I'm also more than that. I think I'm a good person because I know what's in my heart. But I've also got the capability and the capacity to reflect violence on those that I've seen, that, you know, deem it necessary at the time.

53:26But, yeah, so I used to, and then I don't know if you remember that, tonight, Matthew, I'm going to be Frank Sinatra. So I was always like, tonight, I'm going to be the ear slap. yeah or tonight i'm gonna so i know what technique i'm gonna use before going to work before going to work is that right yeah yeah yeah okay that was a high percentage yeah technique ear slap straight there might be a throat strike might be whatever um and then that would change depending on on the what night it was yeah yeah um but yeah so i was just like cocked and ready and then I had a ritual out so I'd get home put on some classical music have a cup of tea and that's all done you know it's done that's it finished what would the reaction be from an ear slap is that is that a warning or would you go straight in for the big knockout on the chin does that slap a warning that is a knockout yeah that is a knockout the way it works is the brain sits in cerebral fluid yes and when you ear slap somebody you know it jars the brain so you're either short-circuit in the brain um and now it could stun somebody enough to do a follow-up or it's normally enough in its own right you don't need anything else if it's done it's got to be done with like it's more than an ear slap it's it's it's a fuck you behind it if you're not gonna hit anybody hard don't him but it's it's it's more than it's more than a physical movement it's intent i'm gonna fucking knock you out and then all that this is what i'm saying it it becomes something else the intent behind it um yeah that's i know you know it's necessary you know you've got to have it you can like karate people they pi yeah you know to me it was just like fuck you yeah fuck off and it was that it was that yeah and then what was your other move that was your would that be your number one move probably yeah is that the one you've knocked most people out with oh yeah without a doubt okay yeah yeah um see i always think i always teach unless you're conditioning your hands punching is for amateurs because that's a hammer yeah that's a multi-tool and um you know i've known so many doorman punch somebody break the hand either break the hand you get a tooth bit of broken tooth in there next day i mean you could be off work for a couple of weeks i never took a day off work um and that that doesn't compromise the hand as much it's a bigger striking area to a big striking area punching you've got to be a little bit more accurate but um a nice up punch to the eye socket is a good one again um so you're kind of punching up into the eye as opposed to this way yeah but punching right up into the eye socket does it that normally does it what about the throat yeah what do you do is the throat throat a good one of yours yeah always you get excited didn't before going to work would you would you no would throat would throat come into the mix when you're at home listening to the hacker go tonight matthew i'm going to be doing the throat i'll see how that works or you always the slap and the throat would be a second thing again the great thing about the slap it's multi-directional against multiple opponents how about two guys i can slap this way if i slap this guy i can i can back slap she's got this motion so i hit him and then i can hit him at the same time it's just difficult without a demonstration okay but a punch is oh let me ask my producer ollie are you right for be a demonstration on this mate

57:32so i'm i ain't being i ain't being i ain't being the guinea pig on this one that's for sure after seeing that danny die thing i was gonna say it's gonna be a danny die so the the throat tell me about the throat is that like a quick bang throat yeah it was it okay it could be i don't know if it complicate it it depends on where they are okay because most people have this scenario that somebody stood like in front yeah but he might be off to this side here now if somebody's on this side of me that i'd have to use now i'm punching across myself this is my weaker hand this is my strong hand it's there okay so either the sides of the negative pending so this could hit like you know either way yeah so what would you be hitting without the outside well no bang this way okay yeah or this way okay yeah so either way and then you've got here so you've been teaching this what for how many years 40 years um yeah probably about that yeah probably about that yeah probably about that and it's all self-defense or is it or is it learning how to not kill but learning how to protect yourself i guess like it or you can think of self-defense i like to think of self-offense offense yeah okay um yeah it's um i think everybody has a duty to be able to defend themselves especially when you're when you've got children or you know you have responsibilities well you're working that's your job yeah right and um you know i think for me it was about self-esteem i needed to be able to do it because of my background my growing up yeah i needed to validate myself um and feel i i wasn't you know through what i went through with the being at home and being bullied that was never going to happen again yeah okay to me okay nobody is going to make me feel the way that i felt all those years all those years ago nobody and they didn't um so there's you know it's it's more than it's quite deep when you get into it so you know if i hit somebody i'm i'm not just hitting them with my fist i'm hitting hitting them with my anger yeah my frustration my validation yeah and listen you've had some tough guys on this show i i don't i couldn't live with those guys you know um some of them are like proper yeah so i'm not pretending to be anything i'm not i've done everything that i think it's about being everything you can be yeah and um ultimately you you know you've got to live with yourself i could never i couldn't i couldn't face being beaten yeah i'll lose at chess i'll lose at football i'll lose at anything but only i won't lose when it matters yeah okay and i think you know yeah that's what's the level someone's got to really piss you off that you're biting someone's ear off or biting someone's lip lip off or taking a limb off them

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1:01:49It wouldn't take very much back in the day. Okay. It wouldn't take very much at all.

1:01:57Yeah, there's a difference between fighting and violence. Being good at violence. I'm not talking about boxing or anything like that. I'm talking about inflicting violence on people. Yeah. That's a different thing.

1:02:16um yeah it's um it probably wouldn't take very much i'm obviously a lot more in control now than i was i was probably a little bit out of control i was i was i was between what between what years would you say of your life in your 30s your 40s your 50s well all that probably all the 20s yeah the whole lot really um as i got probably in my 30s okay yeah and is that when you were strongest yeah 30s and 40s yeah yeah probably yeah and i was i had a lot of when i i got fitter when i left the army trust me i was fit in the army but i had this i had i was asked to leave the army i didn't leave by choice why um well there was a number of things the soviet union the whole warsaw pact thing had broken down the berlin war had come down so they didn't need soldiers i didn't i was bust i lost my rank quite a few times for um number of things um Thank you.

1:03:33So there was one, well, I mean, I had my tapes back for a week and then we were in Ireland and I lost them again after a week. There was a young lady involved. I was smuggling poutine. Smuggling what? Poutine. Go on. That's like illicit whiskey. Okay. there was a young there was we were just we were at an IUC station there was 8 of us I think it was 8 or 12 there was only a small group of us in this in this town it was really boring and we just got we used to do tea stops you'd knock on you know people invite you into their house and you'd have a cup of tea and they were obviously all the loyalist people it was a loyalist town and we had a so we went out on a four-man patrol and it was we were safe if you like it was a safe area if there was such a thing and we we had a call to say that um there was a charity volleyball game going on 24-hour volleyball game and um and some boys were throwing stones and being a nuisance could you go up there have a look around make sure that they're not being a nuisance not really our remit but we said yeah we'll go up anyway we got up there and we go in and there's all these lovely girls playing netball and we got talking we overstayed and um was joined in started playing netball next day in the in the newspaper there's us on the front page combat gear netball vests on or looking a bit high-eyed probably and um the questions were asked you know what's going on here and then they did some sort of investigation and i i had been or we had been visiting some young ladies in in the town in the village over well you can imagine I didn't realize that the young lady that I was seeing, her brother, he was quite high up in a loyalist organization.

1:05:53I think it was more political, but we were way off track than what we should have been doing. And, yeah, we were compromising everybody, really, including ourselves. So, yeah, I got bust again. I wasn't even the commander of the brig with the patrol, but he got bust, I got bust again. And then I'm married, I've got children, I've lost my rank, pay, so it's just not about me. I was, I think I was a dick in the army. I was, I was, I think I was a good soldier, but I was also immature. Yeah. I think I'm still, I still got hangups. I still didn't really, I was struggling with my identity. I think I mentioned it before.

1:06:53I'm in the army, I'm in Ireland, but I'm an Irish Catholic. Um, but I'm also British. I'm in the British army and I had this conflict. I was doing things that went against what I believed. So, you know, when I come back from Iraq, the whole, the whole cute, you know, Gulf War Island, everything. When I left the army, I went through a period of what I would say was self-flagellation. So I would go running miles with a rucksack, just miles. um i pick up rocks just around them and run with them because i didn't like myself and i was trying to punish myself because i hadn't worked out i didn't know who i was i hope this is making sense it does make sense um and it you know people used to hook you know you go running can we come i said get yourself a rucksack and a sandbag so we carry sandbags um and people never come with me twice only but nobody ever came with me twice and i would go through the snow through the rain no no excuse you know and um and i was just trying to hurt myself i don't even now so i would um i would do wall squats for an hour just an hour up against the wall yeah there not allowed to leave the wall no music no distractions squat for an hour and and i'll do that every day run miles rucksack and yeah just i was just trying to i don't know what just trying to work things out yeah and um i think it's only oh crikey not only the last i don't know how many years but not very long 10 years that i've actually realized that i don't have to be anything yeah and i can just be me yeah and as soon as i made that realization i can be as irish as i want in my own way i can be as british as i want in my own way um and you know and i don't you know i'm not here to live up to any other people's expectations i'm still i'm still striving you know i i did um i do stuff on youtube now and again not very much but i was out i had a weighted vest on last year i think it was it was a boiling hot day i've got a weighted vest 20 kg and I'm out walking and I was struggling and I thought why am I doing this why am I doing this and I thought to myself I have to be somebody that I respect

1:09:42because you know I think if we can we should and so I keep doing that so um while I can I will but I I I you know I have to be somebody that I that I respect because if I don't respect me nobody else will yeah that's a really dangerous combination by the way you're going through that because essentially when I look back now you've gone through trauma as a kid and maybe that was never dealt with in your 20s and 30s and even up into your late 50s and 60s before your mum passed there's a lot of trauma going on there which has turned you into extremely violent person when you need to be dangerous combination coming out with PTSD going straight on the doors for 10 years.

1:10:25Oh, yeah. Jesus. Did you ever use drugs? When I... I don't know if you... Did you pick up on the... I was involved in a gang in London. No. Right. Well, after the army. During the army. During the army. Okay. During the army. So when I was... I was in London for two years. Lived in Brixton. That's where I lived. Did you? Yeah, right next to the prison. Oh, you were at that end. Yeah. Kings of Row, I think it was. That's the first place I ever bought Brixton. Couldn't afford Clapham, so I went to Brixton. That was year 2000. That was a tough, tough place. Yeah. It was all gentrified now and whatever.

1:11:02That's right. I was there in 91. Yeah, okay. On the Brixton Road itself, down towards the Oval. Yeah. And that way. Yeah, yeah. I met, I was, my kids went Irish dancing. And I met this lady, you know, you get talking to people. And I took up with this woman. and um i've had an affair yeah my wife's gonna listen to this by the way does she know yeah she knows about it but yeah it's a lot of this is uncomfortable obviously but it is what it is um and her boyfriend i went around one day he knew it was open so i'll go around and call for and he'd be sat there. And he'd go, oh, Mo, come and have a look.

1:11:52And he had all these guns and crash helmets, that sort of thing. Never had a bike. You can imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, you know, what do you think? And he had, I don't know, 10, 11, 12 guns or long guns, short guns, whatever. He said, you couldn't do me a favor. I said, oh, what's that? He said, I ended up looking after. the guns um and then when they were going to do a job they'd come around take out whatever they wanted bring it back done i was looking after their their guns um so yeah that was um that was an eye-opener actually because um it opened my eyes to i was always very straight really up to that point very conventional i suppose in many ways and these were people that were not yeah but they had lots of money um they didn't give a fuck about anything they weren't violent or anything like that you know well i didn't really want to know yeah i was just seeing her yeah so we would go out it was all part of the big um irish scene that was going on in london at the time um used to go pubbing and clubbing with this young lady well you know um but there's a lot of coke yeah so there's a lot of a lot of cocaine and that sort of thing i didn't take too much but it was you know um it wasn't really my thing to be honest but i do i do like a bit of a puff yeah even now yeah um i think that helped me PTSD that calmed PTSD yeah 100 % yeah so you know I used to find solace in a good whiskey a good nice bit of music and a bit of you know a bit of weed whatever and that calmed me right down and you know because you need time to think most people you know I would sit maybe on my runs my isolation that's your time to think it's your time and yeah so I wouldn't say drugs is a little bit of weed even now but when you were on the doors when you realised you got PTSD at your peak in your 30s and your 40s having tear ups on the weekends having tear ups midweek dealing with that life were you using cocaine then?

1:14:26no maybe weed yeah okay But no, never cocaine. Steroids? No, never. Never, okay. Never. No. No, I just didn't. I didn't, didn't. I want to be real. Yeah. In, you know. Did you ever, do you ever come close to anywhere losing your life on the doors? A time when you might have come really unstuck. No. There wasn't a time. No. I handled everything. I mean, most of the time, like I say a biker bar, there was a lot of bikers in there but it was the place where and i loved it jeans and the t-shirt what was the bar called it was called buddies okay in in weymouth it's not there anymore it's it's it's it's renamed but it's not what it was um yeah it was it was um it was it was a place where if you couldn't get in any of the other clubs it's where you would go and i I remember one night I was, I was upstairs.

1:15:30It was two levels. You get about three or 400 people in there. I was, I was any doorman. The only one. Yeah. With no radios, no CCTV, nothing, nothing. No, nothing. You need to meet, you need to meet my pal, Marcus Redwood. Oh, right. Who's been on here. He's been on here four times. We need to, we need to get me, you and Marcus around this table. Be fascinating. Yeah. He's had 30, 40, 30 odd years on the doors and got some unbelievable stories as well. Yeah. Yeah. No, we, um, I was upstairs and the police came in. This police won't come in. She went, there was a notorious lot of lads.

1:16:07She said, they're out and about. They've been rejected everywhere. She said, don't let them in. I said, they're upstairs. So about, I don't know, many of them, 10, 15, 20 of them, all the local naughty boys. And they're all upstairs. I went, they're upstairs. She said, good luck. And I went, I went back upstairs. so I was only up there five minutes I thought it's going to go and I always talk about having receipts so anybody can tell a story where's your proof I tell this when I teach my students and things like that keep the receipts, keep the evidence because anybody can tell a story I want to see your proof so I know people I've got students who train with me now that we're there so um wherever i was in that bar i could put my hand on a weapon now i'll say a weapon a modified broken porky uh spanner chair leg broken chair leg so i could justify it no i would just put my i don't know it just appeared in my hand it's just there so they were doing some work and there was a a monkey wrench but there i thought it's gonna go and literally i picked up this mantra and i'm looking with a live band on with a female singer she gets she opened her mouth this beer can went hit right in the forehead and then the whole place went up exploded right so i've got my monkey wrench i'm hitting everybody i gave i put one bloke in a coma he had to go to i think it was oddstock hospital in a coma took another guy's lip off what bit in it no with a well okay um and i'm just laying into people so anyway there wasn't a window left in that place upstairs or down and it had a front door can't really call it a door it's just got us so i'm getting everybody out i'm just hitting everybody on that you know getting them down the stairs out and um i get them out there trying to come back in again so they're stepping there's no glass so they're just stepping through the door and i'm letting them back and they were outraged they were outraged because he went you're meant to be a martial artist and i'm like can you not see the irony of that statement you're in here you've just kicked off you know smashed some woman's face and i'm giving back to you what you're dishing but you're outraged about me and um and that was i mean it was you know the police came i've had a lot of incidents with the police and they've never interviewed i've been arrested i had a tip-off um let me see i don't know how many years 15 years ago maybe and um i had a tip-off i knew it was from somebody in the place he said if you've got anything in your house that you shouldn't have get rid of it and i did have stuff in my house i shouldn't have like and i well things that go bang yeah

1:19:15um and uh i put them in two big hole doors yeah and uh said to my mate here look after these were here and he was good good he's dead now sadly um and uh that night two o 'clock it must have been two o 'clock in the morning knock on the door two vans for old bill all piled in put me in the back of the van went through the house did it they didn't you know they did a cursory search had a cup of tea with Jackie my wife and went on but um I would just need to point out I don't have any gun right now yeah any of that stuff now um but yeah it was it was it was it was it was like that but um yeah where were we so just just like anything come on top like if you're if this is happening how are you feeling about walking around your town the next day how are you feeling about looking over your shoulder who's going to come after you did you have any of that fear well okay here's another story my son-in-law now my daughter's going to get the out with me because i did put something jeff on jeff thompson put something on i think i come up on facebook recently we have a youtube clip of me and then somebody's made a mention yeah but his daughter he his daughter was getting um smashed up by her husband and he didn't do anything and i responded and said well you don't know the story yeah so my daughter junior thai boxing champion black belt taekwondo married this fucking asshole who had cut somebody's fingers off with a pair of scissors that will give you an idea of him total nut job um and he she was the victim of domestic abuse badly but she they ran away um she i mean we went up to sheffield twice to rescue her from a shelter every time i tried to get him he would run away i chased him with a hammer he wasn't the only one there's a couple of people that will know that you know if i got you i would hammer you literally

1:21:29um and these people work by they isolate that person they isolate them for anybody who has any influence and um i said to joanne look and he turned her against us and all that i said look i don't care what you think now but we're always here because what happens between now whenever we're always here for you but i knew ben his name was i knew it would come to something one day and he was always very sly and we tried to get him a couple of times for the machete i tried to get him me and jackie went around my wife i mean she's no slouch in that department and um she kicked the door off uh i went he wasn't there luckily for him i had a machete and we took all his drugs and um but he wasn't there we couldn't catch him but one day i had a phone call from joanne she said dad can you come to the house so yeah you know no problem she lived a little bit away but i turned up and ben's there and another lad was there but he he realized what was going on and he left and so ben's there i thought this is going to be it now he fancies himself he was the number one he was always in prison yeah he was number one in prison yeah so little welsh guy bald head you know and um i thought oh here we go so i went in just pretended i didn't know what was going on he sat there he's had a drink he probably had some gear yeah and i went and i went all right how's it going all right so i said oh any chance of a coffee yeah yeah so I went in the kitchen put all the knives up on top of the cupboard put one down the back of my jeans made a hot coffee loads of sugar hot water no milk nothing like that so I'm stood there pretending to drink this drink he comes up to me wait more I've got my back to the door I said no leave it Ben we don't want we don't want to do this he went you're going to fucking have it now so he came towards me he obviously found he did he he's always boasting he was going to get me or whatever anyway put the hot coffee in his face smashed him over the head with the mug he rolled back he went back onto the couch and there was a big i think it was a big glass ashtray i smashed him around the head put two great big holes in his head going back to the incident i talked to you before with the uh luckily for him joanne screaming he's he's clay he's claret everywhere blood everywhere um so she calls the police my dad's trying to kill my husband um so ben's gone no no more no you know i've had enough i've had enough so okay i would have killed him yeah um and the police come now we all had panic alarms now we've got two other daughters we all had to have panic alarms his name if it came up at the police immediate response his name was flagged um it was just nasty nasty um there was a lot of back stories like i say with the scissors i know he's he's held people and tortured them in his in his flat or horrible yeah the police come they knew it was him he's covered there in blood they don't know what's going on they went oh all right everything all right i think yeah they took him off um never never even asked me a question it was the same with that big fight when i've smashed everybody up police never because they know the good guys aren't the bad guys so they've took him off um it's disappeared for a little while have you seen um cape fear have you seen i've not watched it with robert de niro well if you've seen the film you'll know the guy yeah he don't give up so jan joanne lived up on this um she was about three stories high she's up there one day after this and he's climbed up the outside of the building to try and get in and he's fallen 40 feet smashed his hips everything he's like really smashed up he's out of hospital three days later crawling around dragging himself around he then so you know it's just psychotic he goes he ran off i i tried to get him but i couldn't catch hold of him he was whatever he goes up to thailand he read a swedish woman in thailand he does he gets 14 years in the bangkok hilton he does half his sentence over there and then comes back to do half his sentence over here um but he was found hanging in his cell so he's dead like in england in england because i would have had it it wouldn't have ended the thing is i i'm really uncomfortable because he's got a son i've got a grandson yeah beautiful lad and um unfortunately he has to hear this yeah so he's never met his father and i'm luckily he's anything but his father it's a sad it's a sad yeah sad story he's a beautiful lad lovely i love him to bits but um i'm sorry he's got to hear this you know because that's his father but um but that was again that was a major episode in our lives all of our lives impacted he was just a wrong and yeah and um i spoke to his mom and she said he was born wrong yeah just some people are just born wrong and he was and he was one of them so that was a whole episode that's left deep scars on the family because sure yeah how many years did that go on for oh crikey quite a few years like i don't i wouldn't like to say that we're married i don't know five years maybe so that feeling inside you your blood boiling every time you know that blokes with your daughter joanne up in sheffield and you're down here in my room i'm down here how on earth are you dealing with that see the easy thing would be and i think a lot of people go yeah i wouldn't have done that You know, the macho bullshit.

1:27:52But then see, he's got an excuse, you know, he's, I would have had to kill him. Now I'm jeopardizing my other kids. I go to prison. He's left out at the mercy of. And can carry on. And can carry on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, get it. So I have to be smart about it.

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1:29:19I had to bide my time. I just had to say to Joanne, look, I mean, she's an adult. Yeah. You don't have to be there. We've come to get you twice, all the way to Sheffield, at a moment's lotus, to get you out of a hostel. You've been in hostels here, there, and everywhere. But she goes back. It's that bad boy thing, isn't it? Yeah. You weren't a bad boy. He was a fucking asshole. Yeah. And he was nothing. He was nothing. You know, I smashed him up easy. But, um. how old were you at this time oh croaky in my i must have been in my 40s okay yeah and what's that i just can't get my head around knowing my daughter's with someone how did you know that she was getting domestically yeah how did you know it was it was just obvious everybody because she was loved up she didn't want to tell her dad or was it got to a point like dad this is what's happening she opened up to you oh we knew everybody knew i think i think it was local knowledge okay because ben he was well known yeah in the town you know because he was he was just i mean he would just go up to somebody and just like he was a sort of bloke just got to somebody at a bar and punch him yeah for no reason for no reason you know um but very selective you know not the big lumps somebody somebody who's just like just an everyday normal guy how do you deal with that how do you deal with i'm thinking my daughter's up there this is i know what's going on i'm 200 miles away you land there at night your blood's boiling every night for the for that period at the time.

1:30:44Yeah, but even when she was living in Weymouth with him. Did you know what was going on when she was living in Weymouth? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm of the opinion that she's an adult, right? Joanne, listen, you don't have to be there. We had all these discussions. You can walk away at any time. I understand that side of things where I know people that are experts in this field that, you know, well, why didn't you just leave? It doesn't work like that. they get them yeah they isolate them they control them yeah totally pop a narcissist yeah 100 % you know i'm away from their family and friends yeah so i knew i understood that dynamic but i also knew i didn't want into the fall of the trap that i would i was going to get locked up for doing something i had to bide my time which i did um yeah so i mean but like i say there's still scars yeah I'm sure you know everybody from that have you ever been nicked yeah I've been arrested loads of times got to court charges dropped okay I've done army time yeah but out of army time how many times have you been nicked roughly do you reckon five yeah yeah maybe five times nothing's followed through after that no all to do with GBH ABH violent or yeah all that all of that yeah hit a policeman yeah so So I get to court, talk to my solicitor, comes out, charges dropped.

1:32:15When did you hit a copper? What for? This is when I was living in Brixton. Went out with this young lady. Went out about four o 'clock in the morning. We got a taxi to near. We'd parked the car up. It was about four o 'clock in the morning. i think it was camberwell down that way anyway i see what the car moves i got in pisses a fart as soon as i get in the old blue lights i've got out um so um copper i'll get out the car the copper's there right you know breathe into this so i hit him and ran i don't know if you know carter street nick it's one of the old nicks under carter street i didn't realize i was running towards the police station right next thing police van pulls up about eight coppers all pull out get me in the back give me a bit in yeah yeah so they get me back to carter street police station and i hadn't been breathalyzed up to this point but they got that machine in there so i did what they called a moody i pulled a moody so in other words i pretended i was unconscious because they'd give me a bit of a beating so i'm lying on the i was totally conscious totally with it but i'm like like this and um they couldn't get you know they got a medic to come in a paramedic and he's got he's got a pen and they stick it in your sternum to test right and behind your ear and all that to test your consciousness and he went no he's out i was like crying behind my eyes and um but anyway they couldn't get me on the machine so i was down i I was on the floor for a long time.

1:33:58And then by the time they got a doctor in about 10 o 'clock in the morning, I passed, they did a blood test. I had to wait for the results. And it came back, I was clear. But if they'd have took it at the time. Now being in the army, I would have been in a lot of trouble for drink driving. I mean, I was in a lot of trouble in the army at that time anyway, because I was in the army. I was taken, I was a photographer. for the taking pictures of the royal family i was in the guardian angels at the same time were you what the one what in the underground yeah yeah were you yeah yeah yeah in the early 90s that wasn't it they were going around they have the berets on and they go around you part of that were you yeah yeah okay yeah i did that at all at the same time was that good brilliant but um there's a lot of that going on at the moment in bournemouth now they've got these safeguard force where these ex-military, ex-doormen, da-da-da, going around safeguarding Bournemouth.

1:34:57They've just launched it a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. It's needed. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, no, I was doing that. I was looking after these guns. I was a raw photographer. I was taking photographs of the raw family all the time, Princess Diana, the Queen. Were you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, doing all that. I mean, I was probably at the power. Only if they know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. this is part of my this is what i'm saying about i didn't know who the fuck it was with i was a gangster i was um whether you were a gangster whether you're a photographer with your army with your dog yeah i was doing um i was part of the troops out movement in northern ireland i was going on the troops out marches um it was a crazy time but um i think i was trying to say something I can't remember what else, but yeah, no, the Guardian Angels were brilliant.

1:35:51Yeah. Because everybody thinks, and it's true, the British Army training was excellent. The Guardian Angels training was superb at the time. No, they're not the same anymore. They were a registered charity at the time. They're not anymore. And why was that? What was happening? What was happening at that time? Right. There was a lot of trouble on the underground, on the northern line specifically. And we were just a reassuring presence for people. we would affect citizens arrests if we needed to we would patrol not just the only places we didn't go we weren't invited into was Brixton and Chinatown and we would patrol everywhere else all night why not Soho or Chinatown and why not Brixton?

1:36:34Yeah we could go around Soho. Yeah but why not in it? Because they would deal with it themselves yeah no we don't need you fair enough yeah um but you enjoyed that didn't you how many years were you doing that for oh yeah okay it's a quick burnout because you work in the day you go out patrolling all night yeah the training was excellent and um this was the first time because i was doing a lot of martial arts at the time as well i don't i don't think i slept um i was living in barracks yeah my wife had gone um so you know and it was a i didn't wear a uniform i hadn't worn uniform for a couple of years it was a it was a suit tie that was my uniform best job i ever had if you like and and um so you know in the daytime i might i might be it might just be me and the queen yeah literally we didn't speak don't speak to the queen but she might be there we're waiting for somebody to arrive and i'm taking a picture and then at night i'm out either with these larry you know based on brixton yeah or or going around with a red berry on around chinatown not chinatown around so on the underground um doing martial arts training with the guardian angels and that was the first time i understood how to deal with real violence because all the information to come from america that's where it started so they were ahead of us in terms of um training and everything but it was superb training yeah we would affect citizens arrests on people we had all the now you would think that all the football lads but no they loved us yeah all the football lads all the millwall all the west yeah all that loads of respect yeah and so they should be yeah no You're doing good for London when it was needed.

1:38:30Yeah. They never had any problem. The police on the ground loved us. Politically, the higher-ups didn't like us because it's showing that they're not doing the job. And they didn't like that. But the coppers on the ground said, you know, they're doing a great job, you know. Oh, yeah. We'd get stuck in. The training was good. So that was, again, I've just come back from the Gulf. and I'm you know I'm the only person just coming back I knew I was going to say about the drink driving thing and all the trouble that was I'm the only person I know ever to get a letter of displeasure from the Major General in London so he's as high as it gets yeah right and he wrote me a letter of displeasure and he did that in a kind way because I was due to get out of the army and they could have busked me and that would have affected my pension.

1:39:26Right, okay. So he's, you know, he's been a very naughty boy, basically. And he gave me a good telling off. Yeah. I had to go and stand before him and it was put on my record letter of displeasure. I didn't actually get a letter. It's just a kind of, I don't know of anybody else that's ever had one in the army. I want to roll back a bit. You mentioned a name earlier, right at the start of the podcast. Excuse me. Jeff Thompson. Yeah. Dorman, Coventry. Yeah. a massive huge amount of respect he's got around the country yeah what's your relationship like with jeff i when i left and he's written his own book as well as he's written i think he's a prolific author yes he's written a lot of books um so when i i was doing a lot of martial arts i couldn't make it fit i was doing a bit of door work in london i was doing security at Wembley all that sort of stuff I was doing bits and pieces on the door up there when I could fit it in I was doing martial arts I was doing wing churn I was training with good people I was training all the time I was doing the guardian angels brilliant all good stuff but it didn't really equate with what I was seeing on the street with the guardian angels people trying to apply martial arts techniques and things so I had this question I started the little notebook questioning and at that time there was um a magazine i think it was fighting arts um and there was it was the first time what we call reality-based training was starting to come out which questioned the validity of traditional martial arts in if i can call it a street context because up to that point everybody you know if you were a black belt you were rock hard and so jeff thompson questioned the validity he was a high level karate guy uh with a guy called peter concert design he became i think he was david beckham's bodyguard amongst other things so the two of them uh set up an organization called the british combat association but jeff had written a book i think it was the pavement arena which became watch my back what's my better one yeah um he wrote the number one best-selling self-protection book which he i wrote the last chapter for yeah i wrote the last chapter um so jeff like started writing in magazines he wrote the book i think he apparently he wrote it on the toilet when he was um working in a factory so he was a high level karate guy and he questioned is this going to work for real so he went on the doors in coventry and that's the book that he wrote about his experiences tough place guys i had a nightclub up in cove on the estate there yeah half place yeah yeah yeah and um so he made a name for himself um and i was writing for the magazines as well on the same theme so it became it became a huge thing in the martial arts world because a lot of the judicial martial artists were affronted and offended what do you mean we can't fight for you know like doing all his gronelos jeff went well you know i think he was a third dan um and you know he kind of worked out what would work and what didn't and his experiences on the door and he wrote about it in his book and um and it became he became huge he got invited over to america as a prolific author and we became friends so with the british combat association i became one of their top instructors there was when in fact i think it was me peter and jeff i was a coach which was the highest level and i was very close to jeff at the time and peter I still keep in touch with Peter and we become very close because it was a very steep learning curve and it started off a whole genre of self-protection instructors and a whole movement if you like of what's now become known as reality-based self-defense if you like, RPSD and Jeff was at the forefront of that, Jeff and Peter and the British Combat Association became the organization

1:43:51to question the validity of traditional martial arts. At the same time that that was happening, the UFC had just started. Because Horry and Gracie and America... In the Gracie family. The Gracie family. It's funny you should mention that, right? Go on. I get loads of messages come through going, you look like Ricks and Gracie. You look like Ricks and Gracie. You look like Ricks and Gracie. I'm like, who's this Ricks and Gracie? You're sitting there... you've got to say, they, there are, compliment, there are H's. Yeah. It's Hickson. Oh, is it? Oh, is it Hickson? I thought it was Rickson. No, no, it's spelled R than R, but it's pronounced.

1:44:25Oh, it's pronounced. Okay. Yeah. So there's Rorian, which is pronounced Horian. Oh, okay. So all the R's are H's basically. But I remember Googling. Yeah. I'll take that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, um, he's not well at the moment. No, apparently not. No. Yeah. yeah but he's what 60 i think he must be 60 years and 766 catches up yeah yeah but no that that had just started so these two things paralleled each other yeah so again which which is going to beat who is karate you're going to beat kung fu you're going to beat judo taekwondo and whatever so they went right hori it was hori and gracie that actually said well let's have a cage and um and let's just get in there minimum rules and that's evolved into the ufc is that where it's all come from that's where it's all come from my god but we paralleled there so because you know i trained with the graces i've had yeah yeah i had uh uh carlson gracie at my gym i've had um uh loads of like ufc so i was an instructor with um eric paulston uh richard bastillo you know right okay so when bruce lee died his legacy went to two men dan in asanto and richard bastillo and these are the two guys that that lineage continued um dan still alive dan in the santo still alive he's quite old but still in there yeah rich had passed away a few years ago i was an instructor and a friend of richard pastillo so having that lineage you know a lot of people in martial arts go oh who was your instructor well it was fred don't really know his second name but it was a world champion yeah in his in his imagination no receipts exactly um but richard um invited me to be an instructor under him i went over to los angeles to teach i knew i was doing well when i'm on a plane to hawaii to teach for him uh it was some years ago um he made my wife jackie promise that i would be there and she fulfilled that i was on the plane uh she made it happen but um yeah so i was you know my martial arts credentials being an instructor under richard um bastillo trained with bruce lee personal friend of bruce lee trained with dan but only on seminars um yeah i've had you know we had a we had uh we had we had a strong gym in weymouth at one time a proper british champions thai boxing yeah it was um and that was the same time as i was on the door yeah we had a we had a fighter's gym you know uh hardcore had an mma team putting mixed martial arts fighters out there training training that i was training i was like getting off the door didn't have a lot of money money's never been my thing but um so i'd finish the door i'd drive up to the other side of the country manchester or whatever um train all day i'd sleep in the car washing the toilets at the venue or whatever couldn't afford a hotel or anything or sleep in a field train and it was all part of that mad time yeah that you did what you had to do to get it done you know and um i always saw it as an investment so like if it cost me 100 quid petrol to go somewhere or train or go there and learn it's investing investing um and that's and that's just it was those those years i suppose 91 from 91 when i went to london left in 93 so it was those two years mad time um doing martial arts up there and then coming out opening up a gym the gym i couldn't because of the ptsd i couldn't have a job yeah i couldn't i couldn't i couldn't you know i just couldn't have a job yeah i couldn't work so i thought i'll open up a gym just for my own amusement you know yeah and and and it took off and how many years have you been running that gym for 30 odd years is it and it's called it's not there i gave it up i do okay during covid yeah okay what was it what was it called a weymouth martial arts okay but um are you still teaching now yeah two nights a week two nights a week i've got a training group the tactical research and development group that's that's a national group that's international actually i go to canada i try to get to canada every year i haven't made it this year um but um if you were to pick one now like for someone growing up as it who's got a kid what martial arts would you pick i would teach boxing you would okay yeah um i think you could you know if you've got good hands you'll beat most people i think thai boxing because it gives you a little bit of grappling elbows and maybe mma yeah brazilian jiu-jitsu but i think hands will deal with most situations good hands good boxers a good boxer that's going to be hard to beat yeah somebody's got good hands um weapon skills so we do a lot of knife work at the moment when you when someone carry a knife or you also carry in well no i mean there's if you've got a lot of the drills that we do you've got a knife i've got a knife so we both got a knife but that's not knife fighting it's it's training knife okay right knife defense is when you've got a knife and i haven't yeah but they lend you know um that comes from the filipino martial arts kali i don't know if you've heard of kali yeah and um silat indonesian fighting systems all mainly around the um the knife the blade so we do a lot of that do you feel comfortable if i had a knife coming towards you say if we were outside and you're in the shopping center you're in the nike shop and you come out and you saw someone with a knife would you be comfortable taking over that situation or would you stay away from it oh i totally stay away yeah okay i mean there are different i mean we see the thing is again if you've got that martial arts mindset and martial arts see it's very abstract you've got to be emotionally attached to something i've you know i've i've been in knife fights um i say knife fights i haven't i used to carry a knife yeah i did uh what sort of knife only a short folding knife yeah but um yeah i mean i'd cut your face off quick as um but i just love how you just said so nonchalantly well that's life that's what it is that's what I do I'll cut your face up don't fuck with me don't annoy me that's it just leave me alone leave me alone give me peace yeah that's what I want but do you feel comfortable would you feel comfortable if someone come at you took the piss you got the knife and you went well I'll just carve you up and then have your knife back mate I'll keep the knife see what I would say if you've got a knife I'll just say it's my knife you're just holding it for me I'll take it off you and I'm not I'm not advocating knives or anything like that it's a training method um but you know we know the prevalence of knife work now but normally it's people that carry knives why do people carry knives because people carry knives yeah that's a sad thing that's a sad thing yeah but never knives used to be when we were growing up i don't want to sound like that person when we were growing i've just seen knives go crazy in this country in the last five six years yeah yeah quite like crazy like i just look at americans go oh they're all nutbags they've all got guns I go to America and speak to my powers.

1:52:13They all think we're lunatics. Everyone's carrying knives. Yeah. Yeah, I did a lot of schoolwork. I did a lot of work around schools in Weymouth and surrounding areas, telling kids, you know, young people not to carry knives. But like you said there, someone who's carrying is scared because they know someone else is carrying. That's right. So it's this horrible loop. So why don't they just go in and go, right, you're caught with a knife five years, bang, done, getting nicked. The problem is 85 ,000 cells are taken up. That's right. You can't put anyone in it. Where are you going to put them? Where are you going to put them?

1:52:44I think something like nine out of ten street people are carrying a weapon. They're carrying. Did you have a weapon of choice?

1:52:55I might have one in my bag. I wouldn't put it past you, Mo. I might have, actually. Are you joking? Let's have a look.

1:53:13Sorry. What's that?

1:53:20Moti, more than most, less than many. People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to violence. Ready to do violence on their butt, bloody hell. Why, I missed it. Oh, hang on.

1:53:38what is that

1:53:45yeah so you can't get nicked with that well Dave Courtney said you never carry the weapon you're not prepared to do the time yeah but he always carried a duster everywhere he went but a duster would be six years yeah something like that five or six years what's this called um to me um i've got i've got a couple of variations on this i don't know there's different names yarrowers and yeah different bits and pieces but how would you use that apart from the obvious well in the eye and the neck anyway really okay well just as quick as your bang yeah yeah you don't know do you no you're mate i get it i've listened i totally get it can you get a nick for it or not what's that called it hasn't got a name i just call it a stick i don't know it's like how would you explain that for someone listening not on youtube how would you explain that it's like a you're never without a weapon yeah and now normally i i don't know i think i was doing a class the other day that's why i've got that yeah yeah see that's that real i mean there's some things you can say that i'm the weapon that's just a tool yes i am the fucking weapon yeah but i mean that would do the same job a pen like a sharpie pen yeah yeah so you would rather use would you rather use that than your hands yeah as a tool so you've always got a tool always is that right always always so if anything kicks off in the street you're walking down the missus you're straight in the back give me that sharpie pen yeah what's this or whatever whatever's there whatever everything is a weapon everything and you think tactically you've got to think like I would say think like Jason Bourne.

1:55:22Yeah. Yeah, we have a, you know, experts see things and non-experts don't. You can read the situation. You know what's going on before other people do. So give me an example now. Say for me and you kicked off in here now. Yeah. You've clocked things around you that you had used before using your hands or use it with your hands as a weapon. We're probably going to get that glass around the head. Yeah. With the water in it? Or are you going to have a sip? It's very bad. Yeah. Fascinating. Never without a weapon. You're never without a weapon? Never. Okay. Never. So if you're on a plane, you're clocking what you could use if something happened.

1:56:02If someone's on a plane and you see it. A pen is the best thing you can have because you can justify having it. Yeah. You can buy tactical pens for that reason. Okay. What have they got in them? Well, they're like made of, I can't remember, they're made of a special, they're not metal, they won't break. They are a pen. You can buy them for about 40 quid, something like that. You know, people look in your bag or place or airport security or whatever. Just a pen. Yeah. But it's, you know, all the points around your neck or whatever, you can use it in the eyes probably would be the best thing. A pen.

1:56:41You like the eyes, don't you? Yeah. and it's interesting you won't roll back like an hour or so like if you've got a bit of grit in your eye it's hard to see someone gets the CS you got yeah yeah if you've got if someone's like you're there a rugby match or someone's gouged you put them not in a rugby match but that's what happens back in the day back in the day yeah like bang have that in the corner of your eye you can't see you can't see you're done you can't see no and you're bent over double trying to sort your eye out that's right so is the eye the right thing what was the one we were talking about earlier where it's like someone's going to have a go you go bang bang you flick you flick in the eye yeah is that a good one i did it to my mate's nipple in class the other day his nipple his nipple just the flick and he was like he couldn't do anything for 10 minutes yeah to do it to used to do it to the nutsack to people yeah we always do all the boys bang bang bang like that's a killer that's that's a 20 minute all right yeah yeah um but yeah anyway i mean there's a we have a saying the nutsack yeah I have a saying, lead with speed, follow with power.

1:57:45Okay. So basically. Make them flinch by doing something and then follow through. There's a power shot. Okay. So yeah, it's lead with speed, follow with power. Yeah. And that would normally be like a flick to the eye, flick to the throat. Because I want the chin. Now, a lot of guys know. They understand all about lineups. Yeah. you know don't people when i was on the door i'd be like don't fucking line me up yeah so you had to hide i had we have a thing called the fence yeah what's it called the fence the fence okay go on so it's basically i don't let you get within arm's distance okay so i'm at all at all occasions yeah away okay so i had a thing and jeff recognized me in his book a thing called talking hands so i'm talking with my hands my hands are movement if my hands are static you'll flinch at that moment right okay but if i've got and if my hands are moving all the time you won't pick up that initial motion okay um so and jeff and jeff credit so talking hands i'm creating a fence i've got a reaction zone here right um i now people would recognize that street street guys would don't fucking line me up yeah so i came up with a thing called the invisible fence so the invisible fence is you're at that distance you're safe you have to take a step to get to get into your territory right yeah before you can do anything to you i've drawn a line on the floor not literally yeah but if you step over that line i hit you you're not coming towards me because we're having obviously in context of what's going on you're obviously being aggressive or whatever and we have a thing called action triggers and when i said to you before about john wayne saying about being willing he's not going to hesitate so say for example i have what we call action triggers so action triggers if you say to me i'm going to fucking do you i don't have to think what does he mean by that what do you mean right yeah you just told me yeah i'm going to hit i'm taking you out straight at that point right i'm going to even before you get to that point if you say i'm gonna bang you're done if i've got a fence there and you touch it and you're trying to come then that's an action trigger there's no thought you touch i hit if you if you make any aggressive motion like you ball your fist or anything like that i hit you okay if you touch now this is now people would recognize that street smart people would recognize it don't fucking line me up yeah i'll draw a line on the floor as soon as he puts his foot over that line he doesn't know it's there but i do as soon as he touches it bang he's out done so these are called action triggers the fence concept these are all things that were coming out i learned a lot of that in the guardian angels before i met jeff then jeff kind of you know we we kind of jeff come up with it with all this in his books and everything and um are you still in contact with jeff no have you fallen out with him no no jeff I'm in touch with Peter and but no I mean I just accept the fact that Jeff's gone his own way you know he's just that's fine you know good luck to him it was what it was it was a time it was a time of discovery it was a time of a lot of talk about violence being violent it was that to me a little bit of a I wouldn't say golden time I've always been conscious of the fact that I would be the age I am now and I wanted to look back.

2:01:21But, you know, what stories have you got to tell? Yeah. You've got a lot. A lot? Yeah, mate. And, you know, I was always conscious of that. I always wanted, you know. To live a fulfilled life that you've got stories to tell like now. Yeah. I mean, all the covert work. Yeah. You know, all that sort of stuff. Loads, loads. Yeah. Yeah, so. Mo, I've really, really enjoyed this. I hope so. I've really enjoyed it. Like, I've done 300 episodes. I've really, really enjoyed this. You have certainly lived an eventful life. Yeah, yeah. And some. And still making memories. Yeah. I'm conscious of that, yeah.

2:02:03Yeah. Are you happy? I'm blessed. Yeah. I'm blessed. I'm absolutely blessed. I've never, there's nothing I need, nothing I want. I don't you know people accumulate stuff stuff yeah I'm trying to get rid of all this stuff because I'm a collector my wife calls me a hoarder I might be a little bit of both but um I've got thousands of books I'm an avid reader and um she hates it are you at peace in your own mind I think so yeah I think so um I've still got I've still I've still got an itch that needs to be scratched in terms of my training group, my TDRG, Tactical Research, TRTG. I might as well get it right.

2:02:54It's my group. I've got a really great group of people and friends. Most of my students, probably all my students are my friends. So I've got my local students in Weymouth and I've got my national group. I've got Steve in Canada. And I want to grow that because I think that that'd be your legacy yeah i think i think that's important um i think i think it's what we build i think it's what we leave behind is important and um i've got i'm i'm actually people are going to laugh when they hear this that know me i'm writing a book i'm writing two books um one would be kind of one's my autobiography and um i've been writing that for 20 years and i keep saying it's going to be done it's going to be done it's not done yet but i'm on it and the other book is um kind of like a life coaching type um you know from my lessons you know it's not about having more it's about wanting less yeah and being happy with what you got so in gratitude yeah grateful for what i have an attitude of gratitude i am blessed i live in a wonderful part of the world got a wonderful family and wife and all the rest of it lovely so friends yeah um and this is gravy yeah happy day Happy days.

2:04:10Yeah, mate. This has been a pleasure, Mo. Likewise. Yeah, mate. I've properly enjoyed this. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for making the effort. Not been an effort, mate. No. Not been an effort. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. You're a good man. No, bless you. Thank you. Nice. Good man, Mo. Yeah, thank you. Lovely. Fucking hell. Hi, guys. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Can you do us a favour and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show? Cheers, guys.

2:04:41I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company.

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