#318. Funniest Interview with Sporting & West Ham Legend - Kriss Akabusi

0:00You've got to have this indelible, incontrovertible belief that you are the best in the world.

0:11Tell me about 1984 representing at the Olympics. You're there and you see Seb Coe, Steve Overtz, Daley Thompson and you see all of these icons who you've been watching and all of a sudden you're getting your kick with end. Oh wow. That's heavy isn't it? Yeah, yeah, there's no chocolate in there, mate. Yeah. Boom, boom, Akabusi in the room. This gregarious, happy-go-lucky. Chris Akabusi. All right. Larger than a live fella. That guy is, as a result, of a lot of trauma in his life. The most important thing was the abandonment from your mother. You know, every night when I went to bed, I'd cry for my mum.

0:55Mum isn't coming. You've got to be enough. That was one of the first times I'd made a commitment to myself to belong to something. I needed this more than anything. It sticks things away and it gets so deep, you don't even know they're there. When you said you were at a children's home as a kid, is the trauma there? Is that to cover up anything that happened back then, you feel?

1:22Welcome to the Eventful Lives podcast. I'm your host, Dodge, and I'm the founder of Bournemouth 7s, the world's largest sport and music festival. On this podcast, I speak to proper characters who have all lived eventful lives. Do us a favour and hit that follow button and be sure to check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at Dodge Woodall, where we've now had over 100 million views. Chris, welcome to the show, mate. Mate, I'm looking forward to this one. I've got it here before you two, mate. You've obviously watched a lot. I've lost a lot of your shows, mate. I'm looking forward to this one I said let me get it here before he goes there quality quality do you know what I love about this we first met at a West Ham Bournemouth game in the box didn't we and straight away we just hit it off absolutely wicked absolutely and what I loved about last night I was like texting you Chris looking forward to tomorrow mate you know you've got three hour travel down blah blah blah you were like what shall I wear mate and I just went oh full kit West Ham mate yeah yeah yeah and then you've come in I'm on the coast that's me sorted son that's me sorted people on YouTube can see this but if you can't get yourself on YouTube people on Spotify and Apple yeah 100 % mate I've got a lovely little bomber jacket I've had it for donkeys to be fair looks good anyway really looking forward to this one let's roll all the way back how did you end up becoming the most one of the most lovable likeable funniest characters in the uk cool i tell you what i mean it will go much deeper um so look this gregarious happy-go-lucky larger-than-life fella is me dodge but it's not all of me you know people think that i'm an extrovert i'm not really i mean the extrovert will be out here this is what you know bam i'll be out and even already we've just started off I don't have to do anything it just comes out of me but actually that guy is as a result of a lot of trauma in his life and what I found out earlier on really early when I was a young kid that if you laugh and joke and you be happy you're safe yeah you know no one's too worried about you you don't get into rocks you know you you you yourself are non-threatening you know we live in a world now where you know people take you the majority of time at face value black white it doesn't really matter but a world that i was growing up in um you know unless he was a hard black guy and i'm not really a hard guy um it's easy to get into yourself into rucks and trouble so this kid we'll probably go there there's kids in the children's home i learned pretty pretty soon laugh when you're happy laugh when you're sad laugh when you're glad laugh when you're bad just just just just get on with it and just laugh away through life and it just it's now an automatic response so so so when i'm nervous and i i don't this it's nervous laughter when i'm really really excited it's like like i would say oh it's just an energetic last i'm just a burst of energy it's now just an automatic response to any scenario mate no one's died have a laugh yeah mate what a lovely what a lovely way to be yeah it's i mean it's served me really really well dodge um you know i've had a tremendous life many many doors have been opened for this sorry i'm glad i'm gonna get there but i just that made me laugh about record breakers which i'm sure we'll get to yeah but um you know i had a couple of years of this program called record breakers the children's program and uh this energetic guy laughing all over the place and at the end of year one you know bearing in mind that you was somebody called roy carson who was a record legend oh absolutely super good and um greg charles comes to chris it's really really good we love your energy but there's a little problem with your addiction people can't understand you so you're gonna have to go and get some what i call execution lessons who's that for for record breakers I went to get some elocution lessons so that the next year I'd come out a little bit more polished and I could secrete the energy at the right time shade the light so I'd go away down to London get my execution lessons and then I'd come back up and I'd tell it to first good morning boys and girls this is a record breakers and I was you know I made sure I didn't click the beginning and the end and I pronounced everything.

6:12Greg from the gallery, Chris, stop that nonsense now. Right, get back the old Chris, go back to the old Chris. Because yeah, you know, I mean, you can be a little bit more clipped and polished and slow, slow down. But then you, whatever is that GBPLC like about me, I mean, I'm not the most lovable person in the country, but whatever GBPLC like about me, it's worth keeping. It's worth keeping. Yeah. don't change your character well yeah no or were you thinking oh I must become a little bit more polished if I'm on telly or did someone give you the nudge yeah no so Greg just told me that look mate you're great you love the energy but people have your diction's not quite right you know you've just got to polish up a little bit mate it's worth going and so I took that to try and just draw down the decibels I was once introduced on stage as Chris Acabusi the guy with the gregarious laugh very hard to ignore but well worth the effort so you know what i'm saying so so so what i recognize is this this energetic frantic gregarious guy can do some people's heads in you know because if you're a fun-loving guy yeah great yeah if you're energetic guy great but if you are a deep pessimist i won't say pessimist i won't go down that way but but you've got some guys who communicate who think in a very logical pragmatic prescribed uh sequential way and and my energy is noise yes you know they and they aren't to admit they aren't and oh gosh he's laughing again i've i've seen it you know oh gosh that is they call you a buffoon and they call you banal and they and they think you're ahead because you're laughing no mate i'm surviving yeah and through that survival i'm thriving i'm not your cup of tea great no worries but you don't need the lyrics to go with it yeah yeah do you think do you think like if you went back and go right laughter is a great thing i grew up with that be laughter be fun have fun every minute of every day have fun yeah mum and dad drilled that into you have fun go to school have fun make it make bad things laughable things like that is there anything back when you said you were at children's home yeah as a kid is the trauma there is that to cover up anything that happened back then you feel well the most important thing was the abandonment from your mother you know um you know i mean i sort of like i i mean i cried every day so it's a long old story lots of trauma before the children's home but then you get to the children's home i'm about six now and you get a little bit of stability in life in their children's home stuff happened at the children's home that wasn't quite aware of but it did kick off down there um but for me every night when i went to bed i'd cry for my mum yeah um i mean i hadn't seen my mum for about a couple three years but i'll still cry for my mum when she wanted to do something and um i would just say i went my mum and my mum and i sing songs about mum and you know and dad and things like that and I'll cry myself asleep and then one day I get to I'm 12 and I've had enough of crying and so I'll get out out of the bed past the dormitory I'm in the dormitory down the corridor steps down the landing I duck under the office I open the playroom door I go through the back of the playroom there's a boot room we go out to the boot room and I follow the crazy paving in front of this great big weeping willow which is quite pictorial in sort of lovely vines and huge boughs and a great big trunk and I cried to the tree I want my mummy in the middle I want my mummy I want my mummy and then I mean this is like they call it woo-woo but but imagine or not the tree spoke to me and the tree just said mummy isn't coming you've got to be enough and right from that moment I realised you're on your jack crack on I flicked the visa my mum and my dad they told me to work hard to study and everything else and up until that stage I'd been trying hard like that and that's what that switch then came from this sort of guy who's trying to work hard mate just crack on just enjoy your life and from that moment on the clown was born and you know we've got a multitude of cells inside ourselves and you become the story that you tell yourself and you can tell yourself that you know life's unfair and you know poor me poor me or you can tell yourself this is a great life great opportunities get involved enjoy every moment love the life you got rather than one you wish you had and then you can then you create the life you've always wanted you create it so from that moment onwards and then then i went to edmonton county uh so london n9 off the off the cambridge road went to edmonton county from that moment onwards all you'd ever hear in the classroom was

11:41you know and i was getting ejected from class and i'd go and i'd get the cane you know i'd go and get the cane i'd feel good about myself i tried to i tried to sort of i tried to ingratiate myself with the cool kids i mean i wasn't really cool um but i tried to make the cool kids happy so i'd be the daredevil i'd do i'd do things that other boys wouldn't do we had a teacher called Mr. Moses, a Cambridge grad, great teacher, math, mathematics teacher, very austere, and he's writing up all the mathematic equations, which we've got to regurgitate, and I'm there at the front because he's got to keep his eye on me, and so I get the big pen, and all the kids are watching there, my name's Keasy Keys, I swear in that later on, so I bite off the end of the big pen, I just hit Mr.

12:22Moses like that, he turns it out, the chalkboard, he flings it at me, I duck, it hits the girl, I can boost it out! this is sharp not you again so i'm getting the cane and they all and in the playground they're going kesey kesey and all of a sudden i was getting my sort of affirmation from being a bad boy like you know but but a bad boy in a fun way in a fun way yeah i wasn't like disruptive but a nice disruptive happy disruptive well i've got another one i've got another one no no no no we're going is because i now know and i'll tell the story i now know what was going on with kesey apart from and Keezy trying to take control of his life and, you know, take responsibility for his life and flicker the visa at his mum.

13:04I now know that if I lived in today's world, I'd have a label. I was working with these kids who were in care and they're, well, I won't say the location, but these kids in care, every year I'll have a little program and I work with them. Where you are, I have been, where I am, you can go. And this ginger lad, down there he goes mate you got ADHD? I was going why not it's like yeah mate definitely definitely so I realise now you know that there is that challenge you know because and now my eldest daughter she would say when she used to live with me she would say I can tell where the old man's been because I'd always start something drop that off there drop that off there you know I'm always 10 shifts to wind it takes something really magnificent to to to make me so concentrated on that thing to the exclusion of everything else otherwise i try to multitask and i am absolute toilet yeah you know i think i'm multitasking but i'm based on doing half jobs half jobs and then i'm coming back throughout the day yeah why i want to roll back a little bit further yeah why did your mum and dad abandon you yeah and at what age um so my mother and father came across in the 50s in 1557 they from separate villages came across HMS Ghana students I mean you know back then Britain was very much the colonial country had countries all over the globe Nigeria was one of them and a lot of the brightest would come to the motherland as it was so seen then and to get a great education my mother wanted to be a nurse going to medicine so my father wanted to go into politics.

14:56So he studied at Lund School of Economics. My mum went to Blackburn World Affirmary. Wow. And these were young pals. I mean, I wasn't supposed to be around. My dad had a little glint in his eyes, saw my mum on the boat, and then got talking, and before that, boom, boom, our cabosies there. So I wasn't supposed, I wasn't part of the plan. So they're Ghanaian? Pardon? Did you say they're Ghanaian? No, Nigerian. Oh, Nigerian, okay. the ship was HMS Ghana so they went from where they lived in Nigeria to the Accra I think it was jumped from the HMS Ghana came into London and where were you born? I was born here I'm born and bred in London which is why which is why they left me here when they went back home so they studied they qualified and the 1st of October Nigeria gets independence from the UK and so my mum and dad of part of that cohort of Africans in a diaspora who have left a colonial country and are going back to a fledgling country with a unified dream and an organised principle.

16:02They want to build this nation. Nigeria was supposed to be in the G34, the gateway to Africa, this great big commercial enterprise. So they're all excited and because I was born here and two years later, my junior brother, we were born here, mum and dad said, okay, look, we'll leave these guys here they'll get a British education and then they can build on what our generation are delivering you've got a constant influx of other Nigerians uncles and artists coming in my dad had bought a couple of properties so they'd come and stay in his properties blah blah blah blah so it went flux of people looking after you, got a bit tight my dad was only a few though so he put my brother and I into private fostering so he would um he put um adverts in papers and on post offices two black boys need a home blah blah that was a traumatic time because because when you went there there was no so like now you can't just yeah you can't just you can't just no no no yeah the social services are involved the government's involved and it's checks and balances etc but back then no one can so we've got a whole series of abuses out there which i'll come back to if you want to but a whole series of abuses there but the upshot is while we were being take care of my father's money uh the the nigerians had got together as a unified country begin to squabble over the resources okay and there's a civil war in 67 and the money dries up and that's how i end up in the children's home right because there's no money to take because well social services the part of fostering obviously were wanting the bills paid yeah so that's how reba and i sort of said his name but my brother my junior brother and i end up in care and um yeah well what can i say about that mate what was care like back in those days how do you explain it so i said if you'd asked me this question 10 years ago i'd have been really really positive so the corporate care because i i only had the positive memories and the thing is when you when you when you get trauma you blank stuff out so you know stuff is now coming back to me over time as i realized what was going on in the children's home but at the time i had a cracking time you You know, my memories were good.

18:34Uncle Martin. We used to call them uncles. Uncle Matt, Uncle Martin. Even Uncle Brian. They were really, really good. You know, sort of lots of boys, different, lots of fun. Everyone's got your back. A few squabbles every now and again, but nothing, nothing really you can't deal with. Enjoy more holidays with them. you know go away to clacton or you know yarmouth either camping or butlins or whatever um but we didn't have a lot but i didn't really feel that i wanted for anything um but that behind it was a lot of dark stuff going on you know a lot of child abuse i mean i just a lot of it i was oblivious oblivious to i think you know i just told you about this happy go lucky guy yeah so you can be so happy go lucky that you don't look at what's really you know don't look at the dark stuff do you you don't look at the dark stuff so a lot of the girls are getting molested um you know there was um some of the staff were having parties where external other people were invited to be physically intimate with the girls um you know i mean i don't know about the boys i mean i've had my own experience where um um this boy oh well i'll say a boy and he's much older than me um he'd been telling me i mean i must have been about 12, 13 but I hadn't ejaculated by then I hadn't got to that stage in my life and this guy he was telling me about ejaculation yeah, what's that?

20:26he said, oh yeah I can make my tall spit oh really, yeah so he said so that night this guy came into so i mean i've got the six boys in the room he came into my bed at night time and uh he got under the sheets like and he was playing with himself now i didn't actually touch me but obviously well obviously didn't he but he jackal did my my left leg and stuff um and then just walked out and left now i and i i'm i'm hazy as to whether this guy was a regular or whether it was just that day. If I saw him, I would know him. Yeah. I could see him. But I don't have any other sort of memory of him except for that incident.

21:27And that only came to me lately. There was a big old investigation going on about the children's home. And I'd say, no, no, no, no, no, no. but there's slowly but surely you know light begins to crack because what happens i mean you know i'm happy go lucky but you know you say you you stick things away and it gets so deep you don't even know they're there but as you begin to get more and more into a world where it's acceptable to talk about i mean i mean there's no way kesey will be able to talk about That's some guy jacking in his leg. Absolutely no way, Jose. I was too much of a bravo man, you know.

22:08But now, say when I was 17, but now I'm 67 soon. And now I can't talk about that sort of stuff, you know. And I can't accept that stuff happened to you when you was a kid that was wrong. And, you know, you weren't at fault. You just happened to be there at the time. there's a big operation going on you know looking into what went on there a lot of the culprits are dead now um but what do you do mate you got a crack on it yeah yeah makes my blood boil mate yeah well no you're brave for coming out and saying it but the amount of people i've had on who have gone back whether they are criminal underworld whether they're sas whether you go back to care home you go back to trauma and you're hearing all these stories and all these dirty old pervs or whatever getting away with it and getting away with it today.

23:01Yeah. Like what's happening? It's still happening. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we lived in a different world back there. We were a lot more innocent back there. We didn't have such images back there. So I can understand why people could get away with it. And also things like, and it's funny, things like deference. So for example, I am deferential. I, you know, I like the idea of sir and ma 'am. I could never abuse a copper. You know, I'd say, yes, officer, no officer, because that was 60. But with that deference came, it was easier to hide stuff. But in today's world, I mean, I would never abuse a policeman.

23:43But I see things socially. I see a policeman asking somebody something in the car, and the lyrics, they come out of the car. and it's I've got you I've got you I've got you on camera I've got you effing them blinding it's madness isn't it yeah so that I don't get so but with that means it's a lot harder for people in authority to cover up some of the stuff that they're doing and yet as you said Dodge it still gets covered up yeah I mean look this country's got we're the biggest cover up of child abuse I've ever seen in my life. Not just this country, Dodge, everywhere. Is it everywhere? Everywhere, mate.

24:28I mean, look. Because I look, I'm looking at our own country and I think, how on earth is the UK allowing all of this to have gone on and no one get nicked for it? Or if they do get nicked, they get two years, they're out in a year, they change their name and they carry on doing whatever they want to do. Well, again, it depends very much on, so we've still got, we've still got a social starter in this country. We have. And if you're at a top, top, you know, you know the right people. You get away with it. I mean, you know, this Jeffrey Epstone stuff, what's going on. You've got a woman that's in jail, Jelaine Maxwell.

25:00Yeah.

25:04But apparently nobody but nobody else has been involved with it. For me, it's a cover-up. And I know nothing. I know nothing. But what I do know is a massive cover-up. And there's a lot of people in very high places who have managed to silence the system so that they don't get caught. And I think that is replicated in every facet. You know... Happens here in the UK. Yeah, of course it happens in the UK. Free Ukrainian rent boys. What's that? What happened there with Keir Starmer?

25:43I knew there was something dodgy there, but I didn't... Has that come out, has it? No, but it's come out. but it's all been covered up yeah yeah yeah like why would they go and petrol bomb his car and go and do his house and all that it's all gone silent mainstream media has all gone silent on it like all this stuff's happening I just find it astonishing I mean the big thing was was what happened up there in um the girls that were in Cairn the north west of the country you know where the um I had Maggie Oliver on she's been she's been she's been championing this for 15 years the Rochdale and the da da da da da and it's all been covered up now it's coming alive because of because of social media because of Twitter has allowed it to get out there and people talk rather than be suppressed.

26:21Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Madness. Yeah, yeah, no, but it's... I mean, powerful people have always got away with stuff, mate. But you're a straight-up fella, right? We're all straight-up fellas. Why is there not a straight-up fella? Why is the politician not a straight-up fella and saying, this is how it is, I'm not happy with that, I'm not going to take a wage, I'll cover it up, I'll do this, everyone's lying. Why is everyone lying? Because I think they themselves are compromised.

26:48I mean, there must be a few good men. This guy wasn't my politics. But you look at Tony Benn. When I hear, or when I heard Tony Benn speaking, I knew there was that white fellow there. Not my politics, but... Who's Tony Benn? Anthony Wedgwood Benn. Who's that? No, you're joking. Go on, go on. He was a Labour politician. He was a Labour politician. I mean, he's brown bread now. Right, okay. Anthony Wichita-Bendon oh what a proper was he proper straight yeah straight absolute amazing man spoke from the heart funny a lot of them I always think of like Margaret Thatcher on the other scale upstanding straight as it comes boom you know defend the country but defend our morals etc there are a few great public figures that that but very few but very yeah but very few but but to be like that you have to have not one skeleton in your cupboard yeah yeah and you've got to define what a skeleton is you you might not have rent boys you might not be um abusing kids yeah but you might uh have a an extracurricular marriage affair yeah you know and you don't want that come out because your wife's beautiful and you know and you've got this lovely family image i mean there's so many ways of having things on people so that people will keep stum keep stum yeah turn a blind eye when we when did you realize you were a really good athlete yeah i didn't realize that until you're in the army mate which was what age i was 16 and a half why did you go straight to the army was that like i need to get out i saved it was it yeah i was um so in total how long were you in care home i was in care from four till 16 and i was in the care home from six so 10 years 10 10 years

28:58but you know i i mean honestly i've been telling everything i've said

29:07some people from Nigeria will hate me when I say things like this, but I look at the life I could have had in Nigeria.

29:17Now, with the right sort of investment, I could have a good life. Because there are many, many people in Nigeria living absolutely beautifully well. But I've seen poverty as well. and i'm even you know i've seen people have to walk five miles to get some water the water's out of out of the river it's not clean i think you know they've got a mobile phone but they've got no sanitation in their house they're struggling for a couple meals in a day um i've seen talented bright people the system's against them um you know this you i mean you've got a fantastic studio here i've seen your offices brilliant and you you you we have an appointment and we meet at this appointment and you know that i can turn up nothing's going to get in the way i'm not going to get robbed on the way your light is not going to be taken in the middle you're not thinking i'll fix a generator you know there are so many issues that mitigate against a bright articulate the upwardly mobile person making it in Nigeria.

30:26And I apologise for saying that because I know a lot of people say, no, I'm not bad-mouthing the country. I'm just telling you the way I found it. And yet here I was in care, a fallout care in the army, and the whole system is there to enable me, a kid from the children's home, to become one of the best athletes in the country, European world, European champion. It's because the system was there. In this country, if you really want to get on, you're prepared to work hard, to be committed, turn up each day and every day, work and collaborate with other people, you're going to make it. You will make it.

31:12Young people, you will come into your business, sit with you, learn from you, find their own little niche, they will make it. So for me, I joined the army, 10 sheets of the wind, no qualifications from school, safety and security, place a blog, roof over my head, and I met a guy called Sergeant McKenzie. And Sergeant McKenzie was a troop sergeant, not my troop. I was in 12 troop. He was in 16 troop, but he was a troop sergeant. He was a dual sergeant. He was also an army athletics officer. And he just noticed I had a bit of a... Now, where was his talent when I was at school? it wasn't there because I was 10 sheets of the wind I wasn't committed, I didn't turn up I didn't listen I was unreliable but when you join the army it was a great time I'll get to the beginning but when you join the army one of the very first things that happens is that they put all this squabble of blokes on the Prairie Square and they the RSM comes out And I remember this little jock fella.

32:25And he balls. This is back in the day. He balls. 800 men on parade. By the end of the 28 weeks, some will be sick. Some will be lame. Some will go home to mum. And he balled at all these kids, mate, you know. But when he said that to me, or to us, i remember thinking i'm going nowhere that was a one of the first times that made a commitment to myself to belong to something i needed this more than anything i wanted to stay in the army you know i'd made a big show about joining the army when i was when i was at school because i didn't want to find myself back on the streets in Enfield not making it so I took all of I took I took it all you know the good things and the bad things I took it all and I was a very proud man 28 weeks later when I passed the parade with four and the 400 men on parade and I was one of them so that drill that discipline that determination made me wake up when Sir McKenzie spotted me and um he was doing his training around airfield up there and he asked me if i wanted to join him and i was yapping like i always do it's quite verbose love talking and i was running and talking and he just stopped he said mate i'm supposed to be the athlete around here but you've got some talent um come in my house two days time and we'll work on the program i turn around his house when i turn up at his house is um there's a pair of spikes it was a diary and there was the schedule of athletic meets in the northeast of england and the army championships he said we're going to get you there he said i need you three times a week we're going to work on your schedule and if you commit to me i'll commit to you i'll get you there um and that was the first time again i felt an individual commitment to me did he feel like a fatherly figure to you or just a coach he felt like he felt like i mean i'd now know it as mentoring managing managing it wasn't my dad no he wasn't my dad he wasn't my dad he i mean and he's got to be you know obviously he's a sergeant in the army and i'm one of many other boys there so he's got to keep a certain level of distance no coach he has a coach and a mentor but but but i knew his heart was there for me you know lots of people talk yeah i'll do this i'll do that and then when it comes to doing anything they don't do it but he talked and then he did it and he said to me you know i was only with him for um nine months he's passed away now i was there at his funeral he's passed away now but they were transformation for me so although he's in a transactional business he was transformation for me i stand here i talk about it and i'm here with you but i meant i'm sure there are many other young lads who he whose whose lives he transformed yeah um and when i spoke earlier on about that program i called it i called it poach mckenzie because what he did for me i would like to be able to do another I'm not Simon McKenzie I'm not him but you know if I can do something that sparks and gets you up and running I'm up for that how long was it from then until you represented Great Britain five years at the Olympics five years wow 60 months it's a slight of doors it's just amazing I mean you know it's just amazing really because I know Keseyakabusi you keep going back to Keezy's you were christened Keezy Akabusi yeah it was interesting that's a very that's I've been lovely watching you but you're very insightful I still haven't really fully integrated Keezy with Chris okay I do at times introduce Keezy at this phase of my life but then that's often and not to trying to hold on to or link with this Nigerian aspect of myself as opposed to Keezy, the Giddon children's home.

37:03Yeah. And I do know that if I'm going to do work and I'm looking very hard at that, that I've got to be able to integrate Keezy and Chris because it's easy to see Keezy as a naughty boy and they see Chris as this manager, successful person. And then you have this black and white thinking, anything that goes well in your life is Chris and anything that doesn't, Keezy. And you can pile a lot of rubbish with Keezy, can't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not there yet, but well picked up. It feels like you want to bring Keezy out. Yeah. What is it holding you back not to bring Keezy out right now? um well i i still see keys as a disruptive person um but a happy disruptive i'll just put yeah okay so what's the problem what's the problem bringing kesey out then because you're a happy disruptive you're fun easy go find laugh take the mickey life's good yeah yeah yeah but kesey can be naughty you know kesey sometimes blurs the boundaries um you know kesey was trying to understand himself but in so doing you know kesey was called into disruptive influence yeah you are disruptive influence get out yeah you know and i don't want to get out anymore like i'm a member of warburg golf club i don't want to say hey kesey you know i mean because because he he would test boundaries and blur the lies etc but it's a good point you know because i mean even saying the word keys for example is very much familiar to me now so so i'm not ashamed of keys in that respect but you are right i've still got him manacled i've still got him locked away every now and again he come out to play but okay you've had enough son tell me about your experience los angeles 1984 representing at the Olympics.

39:08Yeah. Flight over there, give them the stash. Tell me the experience, what was going through your mind. Yeah. So, first of all, it's the Olympic trials. And going to Olympic trials. I worked at Olympic trials, I was the UK champion, but a couple of best guys, I don't think, Todd didn't run the 400, Todd Bennett, who's a Hampshire lad. I was UK champion, but I had to be in the top three in the Olympic trials. That was the start of it. Going to Crystal Palace, which was the big stadium back in the day. Is that still there? That's dilapidated, I think. Is it? Yeah. What's the one we have one called?

39:53White City? White City, yeah. White City. Oh, that's way before me, White City. Okay. The Palace was my day, mate. Okay. Yeah, so getting ready for that, going there and actually qualifying. I mean, I was, and then I was just a sergeant. I was a sergeant in the army. 84. Porky's, you're QMSI, mate. Don't, don't, yeah. White officer. I'm confused. Anyway, I'll send you into it. Mate, put that on Keezy. Yeah, Keezy. Take that one, mate. But so, so that, just, just, just qualifying and getting that and knowing that and then getting a letter from Prince Philip. Wow. I'd love to have met him. Oh, he's a lovely lad.

40:36but he's a hard man he's a lovely man I only met him because I did the Duke of Edinburgh I used to be one of these guys who just had the Duke of Edinburgh awards so anyway so you get the letter it comes in a place because the the Federation tell you yeah we're going to select you but when you get it from him you know you've really really made it and so you get that letter that's really a part of the place then you go to London to get your kit and when you go to London to get your kit you're there and you see Seb Coe, Steve Overt, Stevie Graham, Daley Thompson, Tessa Sarnison, and you see all of these icons who you've been watching in track, and all of a sudden, you're getting your kick with them.

41:20And you said, what does that feel like? I've got goosebumps talking about this. It's just a real, it's an amazing buzz. Yeah, it's a buzz. Because, well, as in life, actually, but athletics is about belonging you're you're in the army team you're in the inner services team southern counties team and now you're in team gb and these are massive steps and all of a sudden and you've got to be aware that you then belong and believe that you then belong and i'm now here with all of these great and the good so yeah all so then you so you get your gear you get your gear and you get that home and of course you get it all out and you look at your head and you can see the you see the Union Jack and some stuff's got lions on it and you think wow I'm actually going to the Olympics it's not a fairy story I'm actually going to the Olympics and I was lucky because the previous year I'd gone in the relay into the World Championships but this time I was actually running the individual as well as the relay 400 400 yeah the individual 400 yeah so i was i mean obviously it goes by saying that you're proud but the feeling is represent representing what was your pb back then no just your fastest ever time you've ever run 400 yeah around 44 93 which is so slow now but is it yeah yeah oh gosh yeah now i mean the boys are running 40 i think charlie dobson and matthew hudson smith are running 43 9 I think and Charlie like 44 1 and what were you again I was 49 3 so I know I know it doesn't sound a lot because it's only like 8 tenths but it's a mile and a half you're 4 metres away you're 5 metres away really yeah you forget about you tell me like if someone if I was going to go on the running machine tomorrow yeah and I was going to do 400 metres at what speed would I have to put it at roughly do you think 30 miles an hour 40 miles an hour 14 miles an hour okay 14 not 14 14 okay yeah yeah okay if you were to break 45 seconds up if you're going to I want to try to do it tomorrow yeah you won't last you do 150 you get to about 150 because yeah yeah yeah I mean I think someone like Usain Bolt I think when he runs 100 something like 18 miles an hour it's not as fast as you think it's but you know what I found fascinating one I can't remember what country maybe Ethiopia yeah one of the guys who do the marathon in under two hours.

43:57I remember saying, how quick did he do that kilometres an hour mile? I went in the next day and whacked it on. I was like, he's doing that for two hours. Absolutely, yeah. I can't remember the numbers it was. Ollie, could you find out what pace? I'm really intrigued. Like, Keely Hodgson who's a great, I mean, she's like limpy champion at the end of the moment. You couldn't run on the tread machine 200 yards what she runs at 800. Find out Keely, you try and do... What's that name? Keely Hodgson. Keely Hodgson. Find out that as well, please, Ollie. I'm intrigued. Yeah. So you've gone to the Olympics.

44:29How long were you at the Olympics for? The LA Games was just so magical. They were just so magical. You know, the Americans, you know, it was a big old state. All of the... They know how to throw an event. Yeah, no, a party. Yeah, a party. And, I mean, just the... The general word is Jewish Knicksburger. sometimes okay the normal citizen but the normal citizen the average citizen the average citizen Deutschsitzberger yeah well say that again what is that Deutschsitzberger the German's word is Deutschsitzberger which means the average citizen your common garden citizen just if you the normal bod your normal yeah okay but the normal bod in America are part of the caste they are the patrons they are part of the caste you know so wherever you went they were just so up for the Olympians gee you're an libyan what country do you know do you know up there she's from scotland yeah mate up from london you know me but it was just full on everywhere you went yeah you knew there's a massive massive event happening and um so and and it was the first time that i'd flown intercontinental that i could remember so here i am i mean united states of america how old were you I was 24.

45:5024, okay. I was blown away. I mean, Hollywood showed itself out amazingly. All of the ticker tape and the banting everywhere. Hollywood heels are smiling upon you. Oh, what? And yet, I mean, I was able to still remember, I'm here to do a job. There were a couple of people who got so carried away, they missed their call up time for their event because it's easy to get carried away you eat too much so you put away it's so easy to run away with it all but that was my first Olympics my last one was very serious that one was serious because it was my first event but I loved it what did you come out with after that?

46:39I got come on dodge baby me dodge baby you must have sent me up for that it's only a silver but it's only it is the most significant medal oh but you'll meet people much more but it's the most without this baby without that oh wow yeah it's a real McQuad it's heavy isn't it yeah yeah there's no chocolate in there mate but you see um mate that's unreal that for me there's a bit on a new youtuber there can you see that better zoom in later on on that yeah you know LA that's basically from Roman times yeah yeah yeah the victim of dorms that's beautiful yeah it's amazing mate how much is that worth today if you were going to flog it do you reckon probably not worth much it's only silver but um no one can no you wouldn't I know you wouldn't but I'm saying yeah there are people who have flog stuff aren't there yeah yeah yeah nobody wants that nobody wants that it means so much to me of course well where do you keep where do you keep it in my pocket is it on show no You take it everywhere with you?

47:44Everywhere I go. Is that right? Yeah, when I'm brown bread, they'll find out with me. Wow. So everywhere you go, they go to that place? Well, that's in my pocket. That wasn't staged for you, mate. That's amazing. That's amazing. Everywhere I go, I have that. I've lost it three times, but it's been with me for over 40 years now. 41 years. How did you lose it? I know if you were on the golf course, a little hole in your pocket, shake the leg. Oh, yeah. And another ball. That's my ball, everyone. I did that once. I was on the golf course. I was on the green. I was being flashed so I got out of my medal and just put it down there as your marker as my ball marker I got the silver medal as my ball marker and then and then the guy goes mate do you think he's got one of those?

48:30Sir Steve Redgrave thinks oh okay mate let me just take it before you in my pocket because he was one of those Charlie Gold who did you who did you you got a silver there when was the next Olympics you went to? um four years later i went to soul to soul and what was the difference between soul and la for you which one did you prefer la is it was my best olympics as much as it was fun yeah it was fun and uh it was first time i didn't know what to expect america didn't disappoint i i i i and once an olympian you're always olympian no one could take it away for you so you know if if if that had been my only olympics i'd have been a happy boy because again i keep saying i remember the keys i know where i come from i was i wasn't i wasn't the best quarter mile in bushel park or i've been to county and now here i remember my best olympics was barcelona 92 because she'd gone la soul barcelona barcelona yeah and were you doing 400 flat on the first one 400 flat and then the hurdles 400 hurdles yeah for the last two okay yeah so so was good because i was in in a new event i was running the hurdles but it's sort of it it's it pales into insignificance compared to the first and the last okay because so 88 i'm 30 and i'm just i've just become a hurdler okay and my career is just lifting up and I feel with myself athletes are

50:20hubristic and

50:26you have to have a lot of confidence in yourself so at that stage of my life and this is going to sound so awful but I knew I was good yeah

50:39I mean and you have to know you're good because everyone you compete against I think they're good right whereas in 84 I felt a little bit jammy I felt a little bit jammy yeah okay you know I felt what did you get in 88 nothing got no medal in 88 I made the final in the 400 hurdles which was a new event and we bombed in the in the relay that's why I'm saying But as an individual, I was going places. Okay, so you were getting better. Yeah, because I made a semi-final in 84 in a flat 400. And I was a much better quarter quarter quarter than I was. Okay. And it was new. I was just down there. I surprised a lot of people by making the British team and then placing in the final.

51:25Yeah, okay. So then what happened in 92 in Barcelona? Yeah. What did you come out with then? Two bronzes, yeah. What? The bronze in the relay. Yeah. And the bronze in the relay, I was in the fastest following me the hurdles ever. Kevin Young broke the world record of Adrian Moses, who hitherto had been undefeated for 10 years, and took the following me the hurdles record from 47-02 to 47-3. And that's four terms. That's massive. That's massive, yeah. That's absolutely massive. And from then onwards, you know, the event, because it's now 45.9, it's now the record for the 400. Somewhere, isn't it?

52:15Why do you think that is? Well, there's a lot of different things. Like the track is completely different. The spikes are completely different. And the training is also completely different. Nutrition. Nutrition is different, yeah. Although I remember the year when I went into nutrition, but it was the worst year of my life as an athlete, counting your calories and not being able to eat off. I've been that often. I've been that often. I've been really six months to forget about that. I'd rather eat what I want than get on. But now they're much more calculated, much more thoughtful. Yeah, absolutely.

52:51It's much more sports science. Yes, yes. When did you get celebrity status? Where was it? When was it when your life changed? You know what? I've just come back from somewhere. or people love my character and now I'm on telly and now I'm doing this and now I'm opening shops now sponsors are coming in everywhere. When did that happen? Big time celebrity status probably 1990, 1991 as an individual and the real it which I'm sure we'll talk about in a minute. But minor celebrity from the moment I mean I lived in Southampton at the time and after 1984 when I got that silver I'd be recognised in Southampton and the thing is I loved it yeah I loved it quality I could hear people talking about me so I'm walking in the shops oh is that is that got the funny name it's easy for you to say you know all that sort of stuff I love that so yeah yeah it's me it's me yeah I loved it I loved it and then I'd get invited to fates and I'd get to schools and I'd turn up I'd turn up by the opening of an envelope but I also learnt something pretty quickly that time because I because I was so enthusiastic to be recognised I mean again from my background you know all of a sudden to be accepted as a viable person in the community was really big for me brilliant I'm belonging I'm recognising and then but then one time Southampton football didn't turn up and said oh you've got to get somebody and then you've got to get somebody said oh i know somebody chris chris he's a good lad we'll get hold of him oh no no no everyone's seen him everyone's seen him we don't want him and i learned something there that actually you've got to be a little bit more sensible about how you spread yourself out there because when the people want to pay the money they're not going to have you then you see me but um so you you you slowly grow as a celebrity of course you know i'm still a soldier yeah and you're not a celebrity in the soldier though you're not celebrity but you become somebody that the army's proud of yes lovely you know and they say oh yeah we've got young akabusi and he's serving with um one you know um the one pwo or the gloucesters whatever and you know that people are talking about you in an affirmative way.

55:21Yeah, lovely. So, so, so, so you, celebrity state, say again, before I get hammered by all my squad teammates, you're not a celebrity in the army, son. In fact, that works. Sorry, it's another one. But, my RSM, in 1983, I'd just come back in 83 with a medal with the boys. I was part of the team that got a medal with the boys. And as soon as I got back on camp, my RSM called in and said, you're not a celebrity, mate. and I was out on exercise digging trenches. When did it go from sort of minor celebrity Southampton to national national front pages with you and Linford and Daly Thompson and da da da da In the 90s.

56:04In the 90s was it? In the 90s, yeah. I mean, athletics just flew. I mean, athletics was top of the agenda. We had Coe Cram over at Thompson, like I said, Christie, Gunnell, Jackson, Backley, well, I'm not even said Roger Black, John Regis, Jonathan Edwards, Kelly Holmes. I mean, just, you know, all of a sudden we all became... One. Yeah, yeah. But this big old celebrity sports personality of the year awards, all of these lovely events down in London, the great big dinners. And again, now when you go to the smoke, you go to London, people recognise you. Oh gosh, there's... in fact one time sorry one time I'm going to a race in Spain I land at the airport in Spain and this guy comes up and goes hello mate and I goes yeah hello mate yeah yeah how's Monica and how's my wife yeah yeah she's great Ashanti yeah fantastic and he stopped and I go yes mate no mate I said hello mate I'm really sorry I don't know where do we meet I don't remember oh no no no mate you don't know me I just saw this as your life and so yeah all of a sudden so you get that status where even out of the country yeah people will clock you yeah and so I mean my daughters would go to me that guy's looking at you have you seen because also I'm not one who necessarily takes care of what I put like when I'm at home I just buy clothes on and go out my daughter would go apoplectic no papa you can't do that people keep looking at you you know you've got every time you go you've got to recognise that people look at you you've got to dress smart you know so my daughter would actually give me absolutely what was it like going on this is your life was it Michael Parkinson no it wasn't Michael Parkinson it was I can't remember his name now Aspel Michael Aspel of course it was Michael Aspel What was that feeling like?

58:17What year was that?

58:21I don't know if that 91, 92. That's proper, that's proper A-list celebrity stuff to be invited on that. Oh yeah. I've been so, I've had some great stuff. We were training, we were, I was one of the training in America and Monica and the girls were sort of like. Monica's your wife? My wife. She's my wife then. Lovely girl. And they all had, they all knew the score. I didn't have a dolly I did not have a clue and I got hijacked at Heathford Airport with Michael Aspel he comes up and says tonight this is your life and then you get the show and I was flabbergasted because just to explain to the listener because there might be some people who don't remember that they come and surprise you don't they yeah exactly so your family knew but you didn't have a clue yeah okay you know I'm just looking for my bags oh don't worry about that yeah yeah yeah and they maneuver you and then boom out he pops all the cameras yeah absolutely and i are i mean because i said with your athletic ability you have a grandiose sense of self you you know that you are good and you believe in yourself but actually generally in life you know you're under the radar so when that happened i just didn't expect it and

59:50I couldn't believe that this iconic show that you know I remember when Eamon Andrews did it I remember when Parkinson did it you know and like you said these are iconic people Chris Acabusi are you sure? I was waiting for a gotcha I thought no no Jeremy Beedle Jeremy Beedle's coming out you thought you were somebody mate didn't you yeah I was waiting for a gotcha you know and then you go back to the hotel and you can't see anybody and then before you know it that evening the show is running wow so I mean again I'm not very good at articulating it because it's a long time ago now but again it was one of those moments when you realise at that stage of your life you are a notable person in GB society history as well you know and yes it's down in history I've got the Red Book at home yeah and every now and again and it falls out the drawer.

1:00:46I don't look at it myself but every day again it falls out the drawer. Oh my gosh, yeah, I remember that. Give me another occasion where you've been blown away where a sponsor has come on board totally out of the blue and goes, I want to sponsor you. Yeah. Well, that was quite recent. I mean, I've had some big sponsors. Yeah, you have. Tell me some of the big sponsors over the years. Labrooks was a great big sponsor. Not Derek. Muller. Muller I was a Muller fairy that was a massive I mean I'm talking about big six figure numbers was it big six figure oh big for me yeah not over half but yeah amazing but still and what did you have to do what did you have to do to get the money is it one day or is it three days so like Muller was two days two days filming and a massive wedge but I had to dress up as a fairy and jumped through a drum.

1:01:47And I hope I'm not offensively because people say, oh, how do you degrade yourself? You dressed up in a tutu. I say, mate, you do things in the world for love or money. What do you reckon? But I mean, I enjoyed it and I don't want to diss the brand because Muller's a great brand. But you know, of course the money was a very tool set. But I wouldn't do something like The Jungle or anything like that. You couldn't pay me six figures. You wouldn't. You wouldn't. How many times have they asked me do the jungle or do um big brother big tell me why would you do it no thank you very much so okay so you've got your yeah no i wouldn't why would i degrade myself so the first year of um no yeah so the second year i was a celebrity they sent me a reel to go on the program and the reel had toil wilcox in a sea full of faeces looking for starfish and i thought why would that encourage me to do that it's not like a dangly carrot is it like yeah and i consistently get this and there's always new versions of that program yeah um that's i might be gonna i got off i'll do there's one coming out and I bet not it might be still hidden but one coming out said no and this one it mixes it mixes mix of I'm a celebrity and some sort of SAS sort of program where you no look I've had a great life and it's been good I'm 67 not 37 I'm not a physical specimen I'm alright for my age but I'm not a physical specimen No you're in great nick for 67 I'm in great nick but I know who I am okay and and I would never expose myself physically to doing things arduously that I could cope with.

1:03:35I've done back in the day. Yeah, when I was 27 and 37, I could do that sort of stuff. But now, why would I do that sort of stuff? And I would never expose myself to all the things that go on where you're bickering and you're put under false circumstances and you're trying to hide who you're... They're editing it to twist it against you and you're stuck in there and you don't know what's going on. You know that if I did Big Brother, one thing's for sure that's not going to come out, Chris's happy-go-lucky, gregarious laugh because everyone knows that you're going to come out and you are going to say something that's inappropriate when you're under duress and that's going to be clipped and you're going to be the exact opposite of who people think.

1:04:22So what you're saying is overnight you could unbreak all of that 40 years history of become of you you being a beautiful man everyone loves yeah that it could be twisted yeah and that's your biggest fear yeah i know well i don't want to eat i don't want to eat a kangaroo's testicles for example i don't want cockroach to come up my nose two things that i've seen on those shows so so i wouldn't do the slip the uh jungle business because i think personal opinion it's degrading and all the tea in china couldn't get me to do that i wouldn't do the big brother because the psychological trauma that i mean i've seen i remember when vanessa helps and again she was bawling she really broke down physically and i think none of us know how you're going to react when you're under that sort of duress you know so you know you could break down physically and not be able to cope and and And that's the laugh you stop that you become because you've shared stuff in an inappropriate setting where your well-being is not the primer factor.

1:05:34What the primer factor is, is clicks on that. Do you think you're 67, you've been around the block, you're massively clued up, you know what to say and not what to say, but is there a part of you that may say something that just comes out and you think, oh, no. Is that the fear? Yeah. Look, we've all got a private life and it's easy to say something, you know, when you're arguing with your mates or stuff that you're not sure of that are just not palatable in public. So, it doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just that the open window has moved where when I was a kid, some of the things I'm ashamed of some of the things that I was said or I heard said in my presence about all sorts of people who've got different walks, colours, creeds orientations, genders they've got different ways of being in the world at 67 I now understand that we have different ways of being in the world that there's not a cookie cutter of homo sapien

1:06:45but when i was 17 in the crutch that's the church army which is a place where you soldiers go and they eat their food like naffy basically and you open the sun and you're ogling page three and you're having discourse nah yeah yeah nah you know so i know there are things that we used to talk about that now i'm not going to talk about that but there are things that have happened some of our uh our culture wars in the last sort of 10 years that if i was leaning in the bed and i was talking to somebody yeah i'm not really sure about this or that mate that's what gets clipped yeah it's you discussing with somebody not being sure which you can do in private because you're not sure the way to to to be corrected with your thinking or introduced to new thinking is to be able to discourse what what's what what are my challenges why do i think like that and then have somebody else in a caring setting challenge you okay let me go the way i think about it but when you're on tv and you're like and you're talking to me like that and your microphone's off but his is on no why would you do that why would you expose yourself Going back then, so if we can go back a few minutes, you said you did Muller for the pound note.

1:08:08Yeah. Totally get it. Quarter of a mil, 300 grand, whatever it was, fantastic. Like phenomenal. Yeah, absolutely. Like phenomenal. Like now that'd be worth probably 750 today or whatever plus. Yeah. Everyone's got a price. Yeah. That one's easy because it was a two-day film. Bam, I'll dress up as a family, do what you want. How much am I getting out of your day? That's my family. Yeah. like now if someone come and offered you one million pounds not enough you would still say that's not enough not enough I'd need I would need

1:08:41so it's never going to happen I would need the sort of money where I could take myself off and live in the Bahamas and play golf and don't care what anyone's saying about you back home and that would be four or five billion that would never happen of course it would never happen but you want to say that price because you know it's never going to happen so that's fine they would need to give me an amount of money that I couldn't understand I can understand a million quid so they ain't going to do it for me interesting interesting I was with Harry the other day he got paid half a bar to go into I'm a separate get me out 500 grand he didn't have a clue what it was did he not he didn't have a clue he didn't have a clue he was like mate I don't have a clue I'm just going to go and do it he won he came out amazingly well because yeah but how is harry how is harry but you chris is chris yeah what i'm trying to say is yeah everyone loves harry yeah everyone yeah like yeah but but but and everyone loves chris if chris now came back out of back on tv again i lay you money that one if you did get off a one by a big brother or i'm a celebrity the knock-on effect will get you to your four yeah yeah yeah do the off skis yeah yeah yeah yeah are you the agent or i'm 20 percent i'll get this sorry chris no i'm not interested in that you know also i'm a station in my life you know i've got grandkid i don't look mate you know but do you not do you not think that i'm not trying to no no no i'm more intrigued your mindset psyche a bit but knowing you you ain't going to say the wrong thing knowing you you're going to have people who love you everyone's going to love you yeah except for the people that come out the woodwork and that's what you don't want yeah is is is is that you know when you're out there someone's coming out of the woodwork and saying whatever you know so that's the biggest fear of oh this happened in 1997 i remember that i was there that night and that's what he did and it comes out the press and then you're thinking why have i just got that quid for that i mean and the thing is so it's not for saying the wrong thing it's more for what could come out it's just the whole setup or the fear factor the whole setup is not set up for your good yeah all right and not not not that the world should be set up for your good the world isn't that for your good either but it's just that and again there's there is nothing you know i've never been an axe murderer oh you know i've never been a rapist i've never been an abuser it's none of that so it's not even that but it's just i'm a bloke i'm a bloke i'm a squaddie yeah brought up in London N9 boy done good yeah you know you know I mean like as a young man I like ladies yeah yeah and something could pop up there yeah okay yeah so all of a sudden you know something pops up you know oh he didn't treat me you're like just the one that stand yeah okay I get it I get it yeah or or something pops up in the paper and she's the right looker and everyone's going then he was punching above his weight.

1:11:46Oh, that's all the time. Oh mate, there was one, oh beautiful girl, I won't tell her that bitch. And I was batting way above my average, but she loved me. Oh, well, no, I mean, she said she loved me, I don't, but, but anyway, her car was like 40, I mean, it's naughty, I mean, she was in her twenties, older twenties, older than my daughter. But, you know, and of course, you know, it was a, I mean I was with her for seven months and I was really loved up I wasn't loved up I was just I just couldn't believe that she loved me yeah okay why why like like you got that sort of round your athletics and around you you're a lovable everyone loves you yeah I know but again you've got to go back to Kesey because Kesey was not a loved boy yeah he wasn't loved he wasn't loved by his mum or his dad yeah okay he wasn't loved in the children's home Did you ever go back to your mum and dad and have these?

1:12:46Are they still around today? No, they're both. I'll bury them both. I'll bury them both. No, mum and dad could never, ever, ever. Look, they're from different ways. Would they ever express their feelings? Did you ever express your feelings to your mum and dad? Did you have that conversation? Why did you put me in a home? Why did you abandon me? Did you ever have that? No, I tried. I'd do it just so much.

1:13:09if it's if Nigeria Igbo my family I don't know where I don't know where it lies but in the UK if you want if you want my resources after the relationship comes first if you know but over there it's the other way around okay if I want a relationship the resources have got to come first and there are many stories I could tell where you're selling that peace, selling that peace, selling that peace. And it's never enough. Did you bury them in Nigeria or England? Yeah, I buried them both in Nigeria, both in their compounds, my father's compound. What years were these? My mother died in 1997 and was, I mean, I was quite a born again Christian at that time and I lost my faith during her death.

1:13:59My mother died in 1997 and my father died in 2004. my father died here um my mother had a stroke a little bit of guilt around that because they kept on asking me to send her medicines blah blah blah and i just didn't get my acting gear and by the time and then she popped her clothes and i um so yeah you know and that was and then when i saw my mom because i saw her i was in nigeria i'd seen her got back to the uk hadn't acted promptly enough. Next thing I get a call from my sister and then I saw her five weeks later and oh gosh she was in the state. My mum was this because the embalming hadn't worked and basically my mum was just a skeleton.

1:14:45She had a skin, dry skin but it was just a skeleton. It was a real trauma. And when I saw her, anyway so yeah that was a real trauma. And then my dad he deteriorated slowly i got a call from the family said that dad's not very well he came across here looked after him for two months here um with you european medication etc etc but he knew he was going to die um heart vertical failure and he said to me oh a few things one thing was one day he just stopped he was talking to me and he stopped and said so this is it this is what it's like i've always wondered what it's like to die did he say that he said that to me yeah he was sitting he was sitting on the bed in the i had to take him out of the nhs because it was costing because he was hard to pay and it was costing me so much money took him out so he went to this home and he just on his bed he said he stared at me he said so this is what it's like to die and he said right and he said right then he gave me these three things I want you to have a son I want you to build in the village a house bigger than everybody else's house have a son and have a wife a wife an Nigerian wife and then next day and then he said to me if you hear anything don't stop what you're doing basically was saying to me if you're going to work and I die, don't turn around.

1:16:22Keep on doing what you're doing. And I was on my way to Leeds. I had a gig in Leeds and I got a phone call. My dad had died that morning and I kept doing what I was doing. So, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things I could ever get to my dad. But yeah, then I had to do all the embalming here and then getting back to that year because he's a chief, so he wanted to be buried in his compound. In his compound. Don't blame him. Yeah. What was your relationship like with Linford and Daly Thompson and all that lot? daly fantastic he was daly is an icon for me really looked up to him couldn't believe that i was living the same space as daly daly's happy go lucky yeah daly's happy go lucky yeah um so i mean it was it was because of daly i used to go to california okay training train yeah because that was his that was daly's training environment so we used to go down there in training and you You can't train all the day.

1:17:16One source, the one source. I mean, daily is competitive with absolutely everything. So it introduces to all sorts of different card games. And one day, we're playing free card brag and my wife's there. You know, you've got all your ladies are there and he's got this love, beautiful, beautiful beach house in Corona, my top, top place in the States. And we're playing these cards and I've got I've got I've got 10 Joe Green I've got 10 Joe Green on the back I'm thinking Royal flight 10 Joe Green on the bounce feeling absolutely fantastic and I think I'm having I'm having Thompson this time I'm having Thompson this time so I've kicked him put my money in and he's over there and he goes Chris don't do it I think he's bluffing because I know he's bluffing he knows I've got co - He says, okay, look.

1:18:16He says, I'm going to take your wife. I'm going to take your car. I'm going to take your house if you twist one more time. So anyway, boom, I chuck it in there. I see him. I chuck over 10 Joe Green. He chucks a pile of aces. He jumps to the table. In your face, baby! Carabondra, baby! he's in my face I think oh no Monica you've got to heal Daley and he says no no no you're alright mate he said what you've got to do drop your kicks and I've got to run into the Pacific Ocean start bollock use my language start naked yeah but yeah so anyway Daley love Daley he was a great absolute great great great bloke I mean again the don great in what he did totally committed and just being in that environment yeah winning environment the winning mentality the mindset work hard play hard compete hard and honestly it was just such a great place to grow under his feet and become a world champion you know you've got to you've got to know I'll say I keep saying hubris but it's you've got to have this indelible un incontrovertible belief that you are that you are the best in the world you are the best in the world did he breed that?

1:19:47oh absolutely and that's what I'm saying you could just you could just feel it you could just feel it what it's like to know that you are unassailable you are the best in the world so I loved that with Daley so so so so Akabusi losing the mic so so so so but yeah so unassailable but with Linford is a more complex character yeah I don't love him don't hate him I've got nothing if I see Linford I love him I'd hug Linford if he allowed me to hug him but Linford's a much more complex character and he had this rivalry with Roger Roger Black who was my best buddy so I don't know Linford as much and Linford if I say Linford's my contemporary Daly was before me and I looked up to Daly as I was becoming an athlete and I was in awe of being in his presence.

1:20:42And Daly was Olympic athlete from 76 to 92 and it's easy to worship the lesson like that. Whereas Linford came on really in 86, at the European Champions in 86. He missed out in the Olympic Games in 84. He came on in 86. So he's just, you know, I mean, I admire what he did, but, you know, he's just one of the boys. I can't worship admire Linford. Oh, I can admire his performances. But you know what I mean? He's just one of the boys. Linford did his stuff. Jackson did his stuff. Gunnell did his stuff. Kelly Holmes did this. One of us doing our stuff. There's a different sense when you look at that lot, for me, than when I look at Thompson, Coe, Cram and Ovette who were just before me and were icons who were doing it when I was still Southern Counties.

1:21:35Does that make sense? Yeah, of course it does. 100%. so so um yeah how would you explain linford how do i explain how would you explain him as a person yes um highly competitive um but feels what at that time i thought the world was against him okay the world and some some people succeed because they're working towards something and some people see because they've run away from something and i think that linford felt slighted felt disrespected and sometimes he was slighted and suspected but other times it was in his mind yeah and and again that's just my perception what do i know i'm just a bloke well i watched that netflix thing with linford yeah and i was blown away i didn't realize how down he got about the press just yeah yeah yeah yeah and the sun newspaper but basically putting cucumbers down there, tight pants.

1:22:36I never really understood that. No. Because what I mean is, listen, mate, it's a place to advertise. I wish the sun did that to me. I'd have had more birds. No, I mean, look, I mean, I think I do understand where it's coming from, you know, that I'm an athlete. I've got a brain and, you know. Give me some respect rather than that, basically. If you go, even more than that, If you go to classical Britain and Greco-Roman world and you look at their images, all of their dons had small penises because what they were communicating is that their brain and their personality and their wisdom was where their power lied, not in that.

1:23:28where has the caricature of a black man small brain but big tackle and so I can't understand why Linford eventually got fed up of the tag is all tackle I can get that but it pays to advertise it didn't do bad it did alright didn't it give me another example of a sponsor coming on board where you were just minding your own business. You get a phone call from your agent and go, Chris, something's just come up here, mate. Do you want a piece of that? Well, Ladbrokes. Yeah. Ladbrokes. I mean, and basically, there's a, in the betting game, How much was Ladbrokes? Do you remember? Oh, another, another, Another biggie.

1:24:15Another biggie, yeah. Over six figures and, And more. Some numbers, yeah. What did you have to do for Ladbrokes? You had a two-day, you had a two-day shoot with your mother. Yeah, that was a little bit more. I had to go, I was up in Dumbarton for five days filming. No biggie, but honestly. No biggie. No biggie, mate. No biggie. No biggie. Again, it was just one of those out of the blue, just didn't expect it. And they got something. So there's something called, literally in betting, boost your ACCA. Yep. Boost your ACCA. Yep. Some bright spark thought, boost. Boosie Aka Boosie Amazing Boom On the blower Son Are you happy Five days Up there Filming Boost your Aka Rod son I was like Where are you I'm in Dumbarton Because I was already there I'm in Dumbarton I'm in I'm in I'm in And it was To be fair It was good fun It was a good fun Again A pun on your name etc etc out of the blue enjoyed it and actually that whereas the fairy got me comments what you're doing the boost I got a lot of laughs and great oh fantastic ad you know although having said that no I'm contradicting myself because what you do get is a lot of people who are against betting because a lot of people betting damages a lot of people's lives so you do get a lot of people there's a bit of neg towards you for that yeah yeah you do get a lot of that as well a bit of that but it's easy to talk when you're not offered the wedge yeah you know that's it's dangling yeah yeah you know what I mean for five days and I'm covered for a couple of years how did you how did you feel like both of us West Ham through and through all our family West Ham how did you feel leaving Upton Park oh awful going to the London stadium awful awful mate awful I mean yeah so um 2016 yeah oh i remember 2016 mate bellich years and i mean you remember i mean west ham is the it's an intimate club it's a family club uh it's a working class club has totally changed over now a lot and when you've been down green street when you've um come up the Barking Road when you've bunked in the North Bank when you had the hot dogs I'm not a jelly-heared man so I'm not going to try and pretend but when you've had the hot dog and the burger and you've bunked in the North Bank and you've been doing that since 69 and the East End has got its own particular smell I mean that's changed a lot the demographic has changed and so the smells have changed but you remember what it was like in 60 and 70 when you were going up then Green Street or up the Barking Road, the Bowling the Queen's Ken's Caff next to all Ken's Caff down there either coming through Play Store and then the way the West Ham talk you know and it's quite warm because the streets are narrow.

1:27:48The way fans had the fear coming out of the station, walking down that. Yeah, absolutely. All the old bill protecting them, everyone on the side of the streets. Yeah, exactly. You've got the women cursing you. You've got the women cursing you. No, you know, and yeah. And also then when I got a little bit older and I'm driving and I've got a mound of prawn sandwiches, and so you drive into the car park right next to the players car park and you can see the players coming in you see the players coming in and so and then you go from that to Stratford you've got to walk a mile to get in over disused land you've got to be patted down like the airport control 15 minutes standing there with all of that and then you go into this massive bowl and like I was in the prawn sandwich the prawn sandwich was terrible the prawn sandwiches at Upton Park at the bowling were I mean it was like a real little pub nice and cosy little corners you had got a little bar you know you still felt like a family you go down to Stratford and it's just a great big hall it's just you could be standing at Kings Cross Station it's just a great no intimate areas you know you turn up with your mates and sometimes you're in that corner and sometimes you're in this corner whereas when you was at a bowling you knew your corner you know where you stand you know where the guys come and you at different times of the match they're coming in yeah but that's that's all changed so they did just the board they've got the fact they did us wrong in there I think so they did us wrong they said there was a vote they said there was a vote bullshit there was a vote there was no one voted no one voted going to go there I understand as a business model I sit here and go right Karen Brady the two Davids have gone hold on we can go from 36 ,000 we can jump up to 60 ,000 that times an extra 24 ,000 equals that stadium rights I get it on paper I don't get it why we did it I don't understand why we did it because we could have done the chicken run and brought it up 36 to a 50 maybe or 36 to a 36 there was so much more we could have done well how many years how many years because I used to be the west west west and then the east hand was still tiny it was tiny yeah and you look over and you see the flats you see the flats and stuff over there and you keep on thinking when are they going to sort that out sorry when are they going to sort that out when are they going to lift it up and it never ever happened and rumours were they were going to do it and even the North Bank and a Saturday you could redo that I'm sure that could have gone from 30 to 50 ,000 and kept you home or even at 36 to 46 ,000 or whatever kept her home and we go in that I remember going in the first season at the London Stadium me and my old man there was West Ham West Ham fans were a tight bunch no one to have an egg with each other they were kicking off in the stadium fighting with each other and then there was stewards who were Arsenal fans and Tottenham fans winding up the fans fans are yeah it was just chaos well i also remember like you know for the first year where the away fans were you could just walk into it yeah that's right you could just walk into it you just you just go up the stairs run a corner and walk down into it do you know what annoys me i went up away i went newcastle away yeah and we were lucky we had a box halfway my pals had a thing there it was fantastic but it was a tuesday night a wednesday night the west ham fans were up in the corner yeah like they were miles up inst james's park yeah we put our away fans right behind the goal yeah absolutely get them up there absolutely get them up the top they can't see enough and we can't hear them yeah absolutely why would you not we need a bit of advantage in that stadium anyway because the atmosphere ain't brilliant no it's good on a European night or when we're winning or when we're winning but I can't stand the major silences and this pocket trying to get it going but to get the whole stadium going yeah is hard work yeah yeah yeah and also I mean we all know you know as I said there were people that I met day in, day out, week in, week out, year in, year out.

1:32:09And then all of a sudden, when you go to the new place, they are over... Dispersed. Yeah. Everyone. So, you... I mean, I've... In fact, I... Let me think. I don't see anybody, apart from the three guys who I've transferred over to the new place with. I don't see... Well, in fact, I don't go there anymore. But when I did go, I didn't see anybody, apart from the three guys who I transferred with, to my seat. Everybody else who I used to see scattered around yeah I don't know where they are yeah yeah yeah there's a guy called Tony and his dad they see him all the time they have great chin work of him I don't know where they are there was 36 ,000 Ups and Pop minus a couple of thousand of the away fans call it 34 I can say call it 34 how many of that 60 are proper proper West Ham fans in there not many I would love to know because I see around how many tickets get sold to tourists coming in and I get it listen I go to Barcelona I'm a tourist I want to go and watch Barcelona I go to Real Madrid I want to go to Real Madrid I want to go to Milan whatever I go as a tourist how many tickets are sold to tourists?

1:33:10yeah there are loads and you know the tourists because they don't know the songs yeah that's right they don't know the songs they don't know when we stand up they don't know when we sit down they don't know the songs and like you said there's nothing wrong with tourism we've all up in the real Madrid we all go and up to Piscitas you know we all go and have a little pop and have a little but that's a good one wasn't it? oh yeah that's good yeah oh yeah yeah Piscitas was great Yeah, absolutely. Fabulous. So what's the future for West Ham? Because there's a lot of frustrated West Ham fans. There's a lot of anger towards David Sullivan.

1:33:42There was towards David Gold. Bless him. I really like David Gold, by the way. I remember he invited me into his box at Upton Park. And I said to him, I was like 10 years old, I was like, mate, I want to own West Ham one day. We've got to chat and have a laugh. He said to me, go and earn 100 million quid, put 50 million to West Ham and keep 50 million at home because you'll lose that 50 million that you put into the club. but they didn't they're clever they did well at Birmingham financially they're obviously going to do well here definitely there's a vibe at the moment that Sullivan needs to go Brady needs to go we need someone who's going to come in there and pump who's that someone we don't know that's the problem but the problem is do you go down that route of doing the Man City route would you take a super super wealthy Saudi coming in to take it let's have some fun yeah of course but I wouldn't know who they are because what I've seen well we thought that well we thought that GSB were going to be our saviours when it came in from the Icelandic guys.

1:34:39We had a bit of success, there's no doubt about that, but I think they've taken a lot, they've taken away more than they've left. You know, luck will all love that European... Every year. That was great. It doesn't matter what competition it was, it was a Europa conference, whatever, I didn't care. I just want to be in Europe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of the buzz. Well, yeah, To be fair, you know what? I'm one of those West Ham fans. I don't need to win day in, day out. I want to stay in the Premier League, of course, but I'd love a cup run. I just want those, you know, I'm just as excited when we spank the big boys.

1:35:15I love it when we beat Manure, when we beat Tottenham, when we beat Arsenal. Did I say they're big boys? No, I said big boys. So Liverpool, yes. So I'm used to not winning. I'm used to calling the top three, 1996. something but what I miss is the camaraderie the family feeling we've got you back home or away you just felt you felt part of something that's what I miss so that's what I'd want to come back can can somebody make West Ham a club that feels you're part of something really part of something rather than a commercial rather than West Ham London yeah but can that happen do you know what bugs the shit out of me I know Tottenham wanted to take our ground yeah and they went and spent way over their budget they spent a 1.2 billion yeah but they've built an unbelievable it pains me to say it they didn't want that but I'm saying they spent 1.2 billion to get that and that stadium atmosphere in there is fantastic and everything about it is amazing absolutely and then I go into our bowl and go it's an athletics track with a couple of retracted seats and I went up the top just go and have a look I went right up the top just to go you cannot watch the game you can't you're miles away just to go and have a look I just walked up just to see you're miles away from everything so I don't know I don't know what the answer is is there an answer of someone super wealthy coming in and going would they knock the stadium down and start again who knows who knows is it the right if a football stadium was built there I'd take that all day long if they knocked that down flattened it it would have been a white elephant if we'd have taken it anyway they sat there doing sweet FA if it was knocked down in some super super wealthy but why would they come why would they take West Ham as opposed to invest in one of the West London clubs or the North you know because of if they were to knock it down they'd have freedom to build what they want more so than trying to do something with Chelsea that's all blocked up and film's all blocked up there's the opportunity yeah but you need someone with serious deep pockets to come and do that and we've got a massive legacy fan base global legacy fan base because of Bobby Moore yeah that's right Peters etc so we have we are a massive club waiting for somebody to take us seriously an owner to take us seriously you know I look at you know Liverpool Everton Manchester United I know they're struggling but you look at those sort of clubs and the owners and the investment they've got and then look at us and I think if you look at Everton it's like a northern version yes do you know what I mean there's an old 36 ,000 like Upton Park Gunnison Park they've built this unbelievable I don't know if you heard it the other day on their first match there was a I think Tony Bell you said he's a massive Everton fan he said something like it was on the Richter scale of like the top three in the world for noise for that first game yeah really so they built the acoustics yeah yeah amazing imagine if we had that amazing because Upton Park under the lights had that vibe that feeling yeah amazing and that wasn't even enclosed in yeah amazing do you know what I mean I know amazing and you know like you know and then because like teams come to our our place and they're not scared they're not scared they're not just shit out of me we're not the 12th man it's like an FA Cup final for them yeah and it's meant to be at home yeah exactly yeah mate let's go to Liberty Stadium let's have a they've had a fire in our place because we can't intimidate them yeah to park everyone got intimidated you'd go down the chicken run I was at North I was North Bank right at the front as a kid all the way through North Bank and chicken run you could someone's taking the front you could whack their shorts down with that clothes you know what I mean it's like exactly you know you're getting a little bit of yeah egg on the side yeah I went to the most emotional game I've been to a mere male man went to the last game do you go as well I guess Man United out in the streets before there must have been 100 I don't know I'm guessing 150 ,000 West Ham on the streets only 36 to get into the stadium and I don't know if you remember but they brought the coach trying to get through Green Street and there was no old bill about everyone was all West Ham fans were throwing bottles of their coats of smashed glass all the Man United players were on the floor no old bill about shaking the thing the game got postponed for like an hour and a half or something and in there we're right in the half well every geezer everyone was singing their heart out of their heart I've heard playing bubble cheers and we won oh unbelievable unbelievable unbelievable unbelievable and I sat in my seat when it finished and I didn't want to go home none of us did no I didn't want to go home it was just unbelievable and then talking about aggro and stuff I remember last time Millwall came to our place because What year was Millwall?

1:39:58What year was Millwall? It was... Was it 97, 98? No, 2007. 2007, I think. It was later than that. It was later than that. I remember... Ollie, can you find out when Millwall come to West Ham when it all kicked off? Oh, it was... That was mental. Yeah. Junior Stanislas scored a couple of goals. What year? What year? Evil. I think it was 2012 or 2013. 2011 or something, yeah. All I remember, because I had a friend from Nigeria who was coming with me, it's past the minute 2009 was it 9 was it bloody hell okay 2001 so yeah and I took him different vibes oh yeah I remember going down Green Street and I said to the it was the Admiral I said we've got to go inside he says well it's going to kick off yeah and because it was prawn sandwiches we had dinner as well and so we were like a couple of hours early but even then you could vibes the vibes you could just feel it it just took me back to back you know when we used our troubles in the 70s I said this it is going to kick off down here and I don't want to be outside when it's absolutely kicking off and it was massive tear ups before the game but then afterwards I said I said to the colonel the apple we're going to we're leaving early mate yeah because it ain't going to be it ain't going to be nice and then I heard on the radio I could hear the radio running battles between the Millwall and the Advers I thought God I said to the Advers we got out of it in time mate and then on the TV there was oh that's right that is so I'm not glorifying I'm not glorifying but that is the that is the but that is the original original yeah so people talk about Spurs Spurs Arsenal this is different vibes yeah the Dockers the Dockers derby mate Millwall when that kicks off South East yeah I mean those were the I'm not glorifying it but you know you remember it you remember the intimidation like you just said there about the last game there Man United knew when they came down that day they were in for the game there was no no one's going to roll over ticking your bellies but that's the beauty of having a 12th man 100 we don't have a 12th man at our new gaff yeah absolutely absolutely we could do a whole podcast on West Ham yeah yeah we could maybe one day we get me you and Harry or is any other road or I could call someone else or maybe we could do a West Ham thing okay mate fabulous I mean I mean I once went somewhere and with Dirty Den and I've got the picture what from the Vic EastEnders Dirty Den Dirty Den and what's his mystical Angie no no no no and Lampard we would senior junior Frankie Junior yeah and we would do it and Ross Ross Rossy Ross Kemp no no Ross from EastEnders no no no his brother's Jonathan Ross and David Jonathan Ross and his brother his brother yeah his brother's a West Ham fan yeah okay but his brother and so we once did a bit of advertising that was one of my great greatest days when I did a bit of advertising with young and Frankie was still West Ham at the time and then within about six months he transferred Chelsea Chelsea, yeah.

1:43:24And that was a big, big surprise. That was a big, big surprise. It annoys me a little bit how he still gets abused. It annoys me. I think, how is he singing? His arms, why is he still singing? I know there was nepotism in there that people thought that it was because of his uncle, his Harry and his dad. He's a great play. It was a great play. I never understand. I never understand it. Why he gets to stick. I understand why he got to stick to go to Chelsea. I get that. Yeah. It's Chelsea. Up the road. I get it. Yeah. But 15, 20 years on, still singing this thing? No, no, no, no. He's a lovely lad as well.

1:43:54He's a lovely man. Yeah, absolutely right. No, no, absolutely. He's one of us. He's one of us for sure. Chris, we could go for hours, mate. I know, mate. This is lovely. I've really, really enjoyed it. No, I've loved it. I really have. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you for being gentle, incisive, interested, obviously prepared. I love some of your questions. He obviously knows what he's doing. So fabulous. Thank you very much. You're a gentleman. Good man. Bless you. Nice one, mate. Cheers, Chris. Thanks for watching, guys. if you'd like to see someone on the show leave a comment below and if you haven't already do us a favor show us a bit of love press the subscribe button and it allows us to grow the show even bigger and bigger each week nice one