#319. Prison to Premier League Captain - Troy Deeney

0:00Dicey Watersy, right, Marvin's not playing. Who's going to step up and score the f***ing goals then? F***ing knows why. I went, me. He goes, anyone else? And I'm thinking, cheeky bass. And then the week after that I started scoring the winner and the rest is history. Here's Hogg. Deeney. Do not scratch your eyes. Troy Deeney. Giving him the opening and Deeney takes it. Spectacularly. I wanted to be the realest footballer you could ever be, whatever the f*** that means. Football's the only time I'm ever free. I ain't got to worry about what's going on back home. I ain't got to worry about bills.

0:36It's going to sound very egotistical, but I think you'll understand what I mean. I'm here for a real reason. So you were flying, I fly, and all of a sudden bang. My old man in February got diagnosed with cancer that summer. My old man dies, I get locked up. Oh, mate. So then I'm drinking heavy at this point. Did you change? Absolutely. At that time, my mindset was like, fuck you. My world's already crooked. I believed that I was supposed to go to jail. I genuinely believed that. It got me starting to reflect on myself. Do you want to go down that route? And I'm my worst critic. There's nothing any person on planet Earth can ever say to me that hits there harder than I'm going to do it.

1:17When he gave you 10 months, were you happy? I was numb. Okay. I was numb. Like I say, I buried my dad on a Friday, I went to jail on a Monday. Is that close? Mm-hmm. I want to roll back a bit. Why did you get banged up?

1:34Welcome to the Eventful Lives podcast. I'm your host, Dodge, and I'm the founder of Bournemouth 7s, the world's largest sport and music festival. On this podcast, I speak to proper characters of all lived eventful lives. Do us a favour and hit that follow button and be sure to check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at Dodge Woodall, where we've now had over 100 million views. Troy, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, mate. Really looking forward to this one. It should be good. Yeah, mate. Let's roll our way back. Who are the most intimidating set of fans you've ever come across?

2:05Ooh. It's funny, I don't really get intimidated. I suppose it'd be the generic ones, right? Your Millwalls, your West Hams. But I come from Sunday League, where you're probably going to have a tear-up most Sundays. You know what I mean? And you have a chat and get a few bad tackles. ends up with a punch-up so never really got intimidated by by football and especially football fans but and weirdly the more hostile the place the better i played yeah because it was where i'm at yeah and like i used to take football like war and i've said this loads of times but like we're going to millwall or we're going to west ham with your club so right we're i'm not taking on that 11 i'm taking on whoever's in that crowd yeah do you mean you all you're all getting in it because if we lose you're all going to be calling me shit and me fat sorry can we swear yeah sorry yeah yeah yeah yeah but you got me they're all going to be calling me that so yeah i used to take it really really personal so um yeah like i said millwall west ham trying to think nowhere else really asked the villa because i'm bovington city said it was did they know did the villa fans all know you're a proper brummie yeah yeah yeah okay so so you going into a game against Villa and you know all the Villa fans are screaming and shouting now you're like come on in bring it on let's have it yeah but it's also it's not just that because I live in Birmingham as well especially when I when I played I lived in Birmingham so I'm from there everyone knew I'm a Birmingham City fan I've got a Birmingham City tattoo on my leg you've got a tattoo yeah yeah I've got that one I was like 16 is it on the calf yeah yeah yeah you know the old school one I was trying to be hard when I show off to my dad until he gave me a clip round here oh oh oh yeah Oh, it is as well?

3:46Mate, what was it? Yeah, I had that when I was 16. Proper blue. Yeah, but my old man was... Was he in the Zulu? They were all Zulus and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, it was... In the family? I was just trying to be hard. You know, as a kid, trying to get your dad's approval and that. And, yeah, when he saw it, he gave me a clip and was like, what are you doing? Fucking idiot. But... So yeah, in the build-up to Watford versus Villa, excuse me, it was very much that week before, I'd have Villa fans letting my family know, we're going to give him a bit. But then all the Blues lads were like, don't fucking lose.

4:31You can't lose there. And I was like, without sounding to glorify, I was active, I was everywhere. So you'd see me on the nights out, you'd see me in the places you weren't supposed to see me. and the lads would be like, it's fucking, it's a big one. You know what I mean? And I was lucky, played them six times, beat them five, scored in every game. Did you? Yeah, yeah. So it was like, it was the one. Amazing. That's a biggie, wasn't it? Yeah. So who else was up there then? You've got Cov. What are Cov fans with you like though, right? Yeah, they're good as gold. Yeah. Not this. Wolves? Yeah, Yam Yam's like, who cares?

5:05They're not going to do anything. West Brom, similar. Really, it's Blues Villa. That's it. Everything else is like a... Second one. Yeah, but it's like a forced one. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Okay. It's like Brighton Crystal Palace. Yeah. It's not really a rivalry. It's been rivalry for years though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not really the thing. They're not on each other's doorstep type thing. Exactly. But Blues Villa, you've seen it with Jack Grealish getting punched by a fan running on the pitch. It's proper. And it's... Obviously, it's not the way it used to be with the hooliganism anymore, but it still has a tear up.

5:38And it's still... When that game's on, if you're not involved, then get out of the way. Do you ever come across one-eyed Baz? Yeah, no Baz a long time. Yeah. God rest his soul. But legend. Lovely, lovely guy. He's a lovely human. Hard as nails. Yeah. Which is lovely, but super humble. But about, say, again, I've been fortunate, probably similar to you, to be around a lot of serious people. The most serious ones are the nicest ones, I find. Yeah, I agree. Because they're trying to avoid what they know they can get up to. How naughty they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, now, Baz was good as gold, always used to speak to him, always used to be on the circuit in and around Birmingham in terms of doing the doors and that.

6:19And obviously, I was lively, let's just do it that way. Yeah, I used to be quite lively. But then, obviously, you've got Cuddles, Keith, that's Uncle Keith. You've got Walton, that's Uncle Walton. Do you know what I mean? They're all like my dad's pals and my uncle's pals. So, yeah, to me, it was no biggie to see these guys moving around. That's the norm. Yeah, yeah. What was it like for you growing up then in the tough part of Birmingham? Old man of Zulu, all his mates of Zulus, they're going off having tear-ups. What was your lifestyle like as a kid? Chaotic. Chaotic. But it's only chaotic now, you know, like when you're out of it.

6:56At that time, it was very normal. I've had this story before, and I don't really mind saying it because my family just had a little moan up to my brother and my mum about it. because obviously I do these podcasts now and you're not glorifying it, but I'm telling people my truth so that one or two kids might go, oh, do you know what? I'm going through that now. I can fix it. Or a parent has got, I can fix it. So like we used to have, you know, police kick the door off. And I remember, I've said this in my book, but police kick the door off. It was about, I must've been about eight, maybe nine. my brother was about six five or six depending on the time we lived in a flat doors come off the injuries and we're you know kids you're like whoa and my old man's rolling around with the police officer but they've come through our bedroom door like the doors fell backwards and we've gone like what's going on and my dad's gone oh don't worry dad's just playing with his mates go back to sleep and then as kids we just went back to sleep because we just listened to our old man it was not like now when you know the full truth he went door was back on the injuries by the time we woke up and that dad come back a couple of hours later and he said he'd been to work to us that was that was just kind of normal and um it was a council estate living living in a council estate when it was part of the part of the game and you didn't know any different everyone was everyone was skint everyone was trying to help each other out there's no racism at those points because we were all skint so the white family across the across the the landing from us they were skint so they would borrow milk off us and we would borrow bread off them and so on and so forth and i only realized like racism and things that happened started getting money yeah it's a weird dynamic isn't it yeah yeah do you know what i mean your old man tell me about your old man what was he up to was he active yeah super he's still that's been dead 15 years now I died at 47 from cancer.

8:58So I'm very young when he passed away. But he was, yeah, he was super active. Like I was, I'll have friends. I just spoke to one of them on the way in this morning. And he was like, oh, just drove past. I don't know if you know parts of Birmingham. But just drove past the Pelham, which is a place in between Alham Rock and Yardley. It's where the pub was. It used to be called the Pelham. So I just drove past the Pelham. Still reminds me of your dad. yeah 15 years later on because that was that was his water and all that's where he was about but he um into anything but my old man wasn't a money man he wasn't motivated by money he was always motivated by respect yeah so his last name meant everything to him so um you know if he had a tear up he'd tell everyone like that my name is paul anthony burke so so yeah it's like he'd let you know like i'm i'm the governor like um and yeah like growing up he was superman even to this day he's still my superman like i you know for there was some some negative things that happened obviously like bash me and my mom up as kids and stuff like that but hold on hold on he would bash you and your mom up yeah what backhand or no proper right-handers that's why i didn't get my teeth done for so many years what a proper right-hander yeah yeah how old are you nine and your mom oh in her 30s 30s yeah but basically what happened my mom left him okay so because of that that just no before that okay he left basically it was like a pride thing for my old man like how dare you leave me okay do you know what i mean um but he he weren't nice to my old mom my mom for a long for a long time and only now we're older we we understand it but like he never had a license or none of that stuff but my mom had a car and obviously she's getting me and my brother and sister around and my sister would have been in well i'm i'm nine my brother would have been six sister would have been one maybe two so my mom's obviously trying to get us around in this motor and he go let me just borrow the car i'm gonna go and drop something off or do something and then he went to glastonbury for three days what to get on it just just wait no because obviously he's gone to the boozer someone's going there's an opportunity to make some dough yeah okay we're doing that then and he comes back three days later and he's going to my mom like what's the problem yeah okay but she's having to get the bus with three of us so my mom and that was like one instant but there's like this was every week so she was just like no my mom god bless her like she's when she's done today yeah yeah my mom's a fucking legend yeah yeah bringing up three kids mate in a yeah but she was but she's like the most genuine person you'll ever meet no she doesn't want any confrontation obviously she's not afraid of it but um she just will do anything for anyone yeah and um you know she's happily married now and living a peaceful life god bless but she's um no she's she's good as gold and she's one of my angels i've only got two left her and my nan and you know the rest are all dead unfortunately but the old the old man you know he she left and again we were nine so we didn't know the full ins and outs but it was very much don't tell your dad where we live yeah so we lived on chalmsy still but we were in a masonette at this point um and then you know just one day he picks us up but we had to when we got picked up he didn't picked us up from the house he picked us up from my aunties and again my auntie was like a little bit of a rock riley who stayed away from her so you go there pick us up and go and then we're in a taxi i remember it vividly the start i don't know where we were going i was in a taxi and my brother again six years old was like oh me and troy ride our bike down here so my dad's clicks then well you must live in and around that area anyway he ends up getting my brother to go tell Tell us where Paul's up to the house.

12:40We all get out of the taxi. Knocks the door. My mum, still see her face this day, like, like she's in a ghost, mate. Shit herself. And he threw us in, kicked the door through, like to push past her. Locked the door and put us in the living room. And he's screaming and shouting at my mum and then he's whacked her. And then at nine, I've like jumped up, like a natural reaction. I don't think my mum and he's whacked me. Because he's not my biological dad, isn't he? He's my dad. He's looked after me since I was six months old. He's not my biological dad, but I was just more. I'm never going to call any other man my dad.

13:14He is my daddy. He raised me. Everything I stand for is on him, so on and so forth. And I just remember I got hit. I went down. I got back up. And I just kept getting back up. And the only reason to this day I'm sure we're alive is this young kid named Liam Millwood. Never forget him. He come to knock on. It was a Saturday. So he come to knock on for me to play out. He's knocked the door. obviously my mom's crying i'm we're all crying whatever as he's opened the door my dad was i used to think he was six four he's only six foot but like he had this aura that he was massive and he's shouted at him like fuck off or get away or something like that slam the door so this kid is nine eight nine years old ran home go mom there's a big black fella here screaming and he's crying so mom's obviously phoned the police because we know she knows that we don't there's known man in our house do you know what i mean and uh he took took two riot mans and four cop cars to get him out but he was he was he was game as fuck man yeah he was game as fuck yeah but he was um it just happened like that that stuff happened and i swear to god i love my mom's never seen a cry mate never seen your mom cry never seen my mom cry okay tough woman and then as soon as that and then because we just did the book um a few years ago around covid because you know what was what's the book called it's called redemption redemption yeah yeah so you know it's like a full um full life circle for me but it was around covid and my wife now is very middle class very she's from sorry like life's all good we were sat watching the news and there was a spike in that first bit of covid of domestic abuse had gone up to like 68 or so but that's like that and she was like mortified like oh my god he would do that to the kids and he would do that and i was like she's like you're not you're not bothered by it and i was like it's kind of normal i think she was like proper like what do you mean it's normal because i obviously hadn't told her all that i was like oh similar story this happened this happened but she was like fuck it like you do all these podcasts like you've got a right to tell somebody about that story because you might help someone and weirdly at the time we had some book talks anyway around um it's more like going to jail and being a prem it was more that side like probably from like 21 onwards so we just said like if we did a book good to because me and my mom never spoke about it none of us have but all these years you kept stum no it's just old school my mom's what it is type english irish like we don't we don't speak we don't go to we don't my dad's jamaican my mom's english irish we don't go to police we don't go to the doctors and you keep your mouth shut do you know what i mean so we um we did that and yeah like part of the book was going through these situations with my mom and i'm going like my nine-year-old mentality of oh this is what happened she was like no that was three days after because i remember going and playing with the neighbors doing the back they had a basketball hoop and they had a house and we lived in a masonette excuse me and i remember playing there and i thought we did that straight after she got that That was three days later because we didn't go back to the house for two days.

16:24So she had all this in her memory bank or were you triggering her saying, Mum, do you remember this? We jumped in the car. We had Ollie Holt, top, top writer, journalist. He was with us. Ollie's a friend of mine. And we just drove around. And I was just like, you know, my memory of it is like, this mum, what's yours? And she was like, no, no, no, that didn't happen. This did. And in the book, it became our way of actually dealing with it. But before that, going back to the original point, my mum didn't press charge or nothing. My old man got locked up for about six months. For that occasion? For that occasion.

17:02Nothing to do with me and my mum because no one spoke. It was just the incident with the old Bill. So let's say he got nine months and he did four, something at DAF like that. And I remember we were in Chalmsey. And if anyone who listens to this knows Chalmsey, where the KFC is now used to be a garage. we're in the garage mom's filled up and i shit you know buses left bus stops on the left buses left my old man's there with the black bags like just come out of jail and um i was like shit like proper panic thinking oh here we go again and my mom's like you want a lift what she took him back no she wasn't with us but she said took him back said you want to live somewhere because when she's done yeah she's done yeah there's no there's no emotional feeling there and and then like but that to me was like, well, if she's all right, well, then I'm all right.

17:50Yeah, okay. Well, what could I complain about? Do you know what I mean? And that was how we dealt with that situation. Was your old man in and out of Nick? Yeah, all the time. How many times do you reckon he was put away? How many times did you go and visit him? Never. You never went and visited him? We got postcards. This is the funny part about Barber. We got postcards. Yeah, we got a postcard from Singapore. I'll never forget it. Only when I buried him, realised he never had a passport. So, he was writing postcards as if he's grasped a novelty. Yeah, yeah. So we didn't know it was a Nick. Yeah, I've done this, I've done that.

18:19Yeah, and my mum, again, the angel that she is, again, listen to it now, it's naive as fuck, do you know what I mean? But as a nine-year-old down, you've got to believe everything that your parents say. But my mum never bad-mouthed him, never, you know, he's this or that, never heard nothing. Did you want to emulate your dad? Mm-mm. Like, I'm not saying the abuse and all that sort of stuff. Him going to football, having a load of... Oh, yeah. getting on beers having tear ups you getting the tattoo on your leg must have been a trigger to go you know I want a piece of this you know he's more to be like accepted I was always desperate for him to be like that was alright because I've got a younger brother called Ellis and he's fucking mustered at everything like sport you name it if you fucking come in here and work these cameras after an hour better than these like honestly he's mustered at everything and I love you Ellis if you're out there mate it's a job you'll regret that when he's here tomorrow He'd be banging on the door.

19:16No, but he's mustard at everything. So as a kid, he got picked up for Aston Villa at five years old. So he played for Villa from six to 21. Is he a Birmingham fan? No, he's a Villa fan. Well, he's not even a football fan. This is the worst part about it. I'd sit and watch matches a day, do all that, get the sticker books. He's not arsed, he's just good at it. Yeah, okay. Do you know what I mean? And then obviously the old man passed away and he just fell off the rails from a footballing point of view. But so like from a kid, it was always, Ellis is going to be the one that gets us out of this.

19:50So my job as the big brother was to pick him up from school, to make sure he's at school right, to make sure he's at home. Yeah, yeah, all of that. And I used to go to the, and I believe it's why I'm pretty good at the punditry stuff now is because I used to go take him to football with my mum. I'd watch what he did, what they did in their drills, go outside, try and practice it. So then when we went back home, I'd practice it with him. Yeah. So that's why I'm able to take that, look at that, go, oh, that's that information. How do I do that? Right, this is what we need to do. Hopefully he'll be better.

20:21And he was always our saviour. My granddad was a Villa fan. There's only him and my granddad and my brother are the only two Villa fans in our family. Everybody else is blues. And these two were like, again, my granddad, who was my idol, loved that Ellis played for Villa. Not that he didn't love me, loved me to death, but Ellis played for Villa and he got three tickets to the Villa. Do you know what I mean? All of that stuff. So my granddad was a black cab driver. So he was like, he loved his black cab. He would take my brother. Telling other stories to everyone. Yeah, yeah. His grandson. Oh, mate, he's got two stories.

20:53He's passed away as well, but God bless him. What's his name? John. Yeah, John. But he, I don't really talk about him, to be honest. It's a bit mad. But he had two stories that blew my head every time. Because what he used to do, my granddad, old school Englishman. so he'd always have a shirt on, had all his notes in his top pocket, and he'd get it out and count it in front of us, you know, he's got a couple of hundred quid or whatever, put it back in, and he's changed with his bottom pocket, and he'd give you 50p. Do you know what I mean? Yes, mate. That's what he'd do, but then, like, if you wanted a fiver or whatever, he'd be like, oh, yeah, no problem.

21:32Go clean the cab. Yeah. But he'd make it. Make your draft. Yeah, yeah, make it. You'd spend six, seven hours on this cab, and they give you a fiver and then you go and get it cleaned anyway because we're not doing it to the standard. Again, I don't know what it's like now with the black cabs but there was a real standard in the 2000s. Yeah, the Hackney cabs. Yeah, they had to reach, didn't they? They couldn't go out with the smears and the windows and all that. And he fucking lived by that. But he had these two stories. One was he picked Doug Ellis up once, the old Villa chairman and didn't charge him for 150 quid trip because he was Villa chairman and he got to speak to him.

22:07and the second one was he picked Graham Taylor up from the New Street Station when he went from Watford to Villa and again, never charged him. So those two were his heroes. Yes, his thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he got to take my brother to Bodie Moirheve training ground in his black cab that he loved and he got to take him to football. So my thing throughout my whole life was Ellis is going to make it, Ellis is going to make it. It was only really 21 onwards where Ellis stopped playing. Dad passed away. granddad and dad passed away and I I came into this football world and it was like now it's my time do you get what I mean?

22:43And that's why I'm a little bit more brash louder than most people because I've always been fighting for that little bit of attention so just going back to your question with the old man it was he scared the living daylights out of all of us in terms of like don't you don't get into this that's why we've all got my mum's last name he didn't want anyone to have his last name because of again he it'd back you up and tell you he did it yeah okay um how how game were you how game were you as a kid yeah as a kid after that tattoo were you going away with birmingham were you game were you game were you going no i weren't i weren't ever able to get into that i've if i've been 100 % honest i'm scared of everything i was always like the kid that pointed at you know i mean and i could feel that so i was a little bit shy and immature and i went to secondary school and as soon as i got to secondary school, I was like, right, that shit there would never happen to me again.

23:37And here's another thing that not everyone knows. I can't touch my shoulder, look, that arm. So I can do it with this one. But basically, as a kid, I was like 10, playing, whatever, got kicked off a roof by some other geezer. Apparently he thought we were fighting and clearly I wasn't. Fell off this roof and I've done that and I've hit off a wall. But if I didn't do that, I'd have fucking hit my head and I'd have to be KO'd. But I did that, smashed all this up smashed the bits and this is the stuff where my dad will always be my hero four days i was in the hospital like this because the swelling was so much my old man there four days didn't move one point he kicked he kicked me because he was literally asleep and fucking not the not the cast onto me and i nearly choked but other than that it was uh but he was there four days didn't move not once and then what after that happened i went to school with this big cast on and two kids tripped me over.

24:28I just stood there. You know the old school, kick your legs. Yeah, flick the back legs. Kids think your death, buddy, and all that. But I remember hitting my arm after a week of being out, crying, being at school, seeing no one helped me, no one picked me up. I was like, right, that'll never fucking happen again. So if you see all the pictures of me, I'm like this big. Yeah, okay. 12 stone at best. How game were you when you were going to the Birmingham matches? I thought it was game. Okay. I bluffed it. Okay. You wanted to be with the lads? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To fit in? Yeah. I had the moody Rockports with the moody Burberry.

25:05I had all of that. Don't you worry, yeah. Weren't allowed to stand near them when it was go time because, again, A, I was in moody gear. You know, back in the day, that wasn't allowed. Yeah. But, yeah, I went to, like, three big games. The biggest one I went to was Millwall away in the playoffs when we beat them. Birmingham and Millwall. Birmingham and Millwall. At the old den. At the old den, when we beat them in the playoffs. How many did you take there? 3 ,000? They probably wouldn't give you three. Would they give you three? No, they took the whole end, didn't you? Yeah, and they basically, Millwall were waiting after, because we beat them and we got to the final.

25:39Final of what? The playoffs. The playoffs. Okay, yeah, yeah. I can't remember the year off the top of my head, but I remember afterwards, because we all celebrated, whatever, and we just got locked in, and what Millwall were trying to do was make it so he couldn't get the train. Yeah. so they were trying to keep you there with the police so you'd miss the train and then sitting ducks yeah and you're a gamer but um you know eventually we kind of got out of there and i remember my ass going yeah and i went to ninian park old school car that was naughty as well that's the most scared of everybody yeah genuinely the most scared of everybody in my life so um yeah i did like two or three good ones and then the rest were just more like i remember going and Cholton in the back of a, what'd be a network rail van?

26:23One of the lads had it and you've got the frigging, the petrol mowers and all that flowing in the back. There's eight of us, you know what I mean? So yeah, did that, did, yeah, just did all the good. Then I just, when I started going away then, it was just to go support the blues, but it was like weekenders. So you do Norwich away. You go to, go to Great Yarmouth and Avatera. All the nights out. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So this was more like 17 to 19 when I just started getting a bit of college money. Started finding my own feet, finding my own mates to run around with that type of stuff.

26:52How old were you when you first become a professional footballer full-time? 19. 19. Yeah, so I used to be a brickie before. Yeah, who was that with? Walsall. Okay. In League Two. So I used to be a brickie before that. It's got to sound very egotistical, but I think you'll understand what I mean. I'm here for a real reason. Like all the stuff that's gone on with my old man and life before. i was a builder working on chalmsy we just finished the doctors on chalmsy on the friday got my last paid packet of 240 quid gave my mama though and obviously i ain't got a job so it's like fuck it we're on the tear up so we're gonna go out friday go out saturday go out sunday and we'll go job center monday and figure it out but i'm having a good weekend just the old school again an 18 year old at this point got no bills no kids and this is a time when there was five I have six nightclubs in every city around the country and bars are open, 15 feet of bars.

27:48I used to have a nightclub up in Birmingham, DNA. 2 ,700 capacity. This was like 20 years ago now. Yeah, 20 years ago. I'd have been 17. Whereabouts is this? Just off the, what's the main street? It was a 2 ,700 capacity. Off Broad Street? Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had one in Cov, Loughborough, the Midlands. Cov, Loughborough, Birmingham, Leicester. Yeah, I used to go to the places you weren't supposed to go. so yours sounds a bit too high-end. Tell me that, so give me an example of a weekend bender for you. Oh, piece of piece. Get home, because it only stopped not too long ago, so Friday, got home, gave my mum a dough, shower, change, we had a football team called Chalmsey Town, land in there, wait for the other lads to finish, I was a builder, so we finished knock off half 12-1 on a Friday.

28:41I'm in there by three waiting just wait for the text old school days waiting for the text where somebody is what they're doing Friday we'll go Soliol we'll go up to Mason's from Mason's to Roses or what would it be called like what are they called you know like the 80s bars yeah like a wine bar no but it's like it's like a club but basically one room is like fucking all up to date and then upstairs is 80s it was like a reflex reflex that's what it's called yeah yeah yeah so Friday being reflex again drinks were about three quid so you'd have a tear up on a tenner we used to drink we used to call them cheeky vimtoes which was poor and they get you twisted quickly don't they?

29:24what's the other one we used to have? Turbo Shandies that was like half a lager with like a Smirnoff ice banged in it I don't drink beer as well so for me it was always like now I'm a brandy and whiskey type of guy at that point when i was skin it was whatever was going do you know i mean but except except a pint yeah yeah so why uh i don't know just the smell of cigarettes and the smell of lager and cat piss they're the three things the three things i can't stand so if you want to you want to get to me bring your cat around let it piss and then um i'm i'm gone mate yeah those three things just since i was a kid like the smell just just gets to me um So I've never had a cigarette and I've never had a cat.

30:15Would you go around the clock? Do you come in at four o 'clock? You're not leaving until the lights come on. That's cardinal sin. Unless there was a tear up, obviously, which most weekends there was. So then let's say you leave there. If you left there early at two, you go to the strippers for a few hours. But if you left... Legs 11? Yeah, oh, you know. There was a leg to there in Birmingham. My mate told me. Yeah, on the Hagley Road. I don't know where it is. They serve great food in the day as well, I've heard. You get two dances for a forever in the day. My mate Dave told me. Yeah, did he? Yeah, yeah.

30:50I was saying to the missus, somebody else was in there. They text me. Yeah, so then Oron and Sully on the high street was a little cheeky one that we used to go to on a Wednesday. So that was in there as well. So that was Friday. I got home about I got home about four my mum god bless her she still cleans on a Saturday Saturday's her cleaning day top to bottom must have been about 12 and she's like oi up out because I play football as well still so she's like go and play football get out of the fucking house I don't care what you're doing but I'm mouldy at this point so it's quick brush teeth off you go boots in the NASDA bag go and play football on the Saturday to level out you obviously have another Brandy and Cope just before just to level yourself out before you feel all over the place.

31:33Because where I lived was like two-minute walk to Chambers Town or four-minute walk to MacDonald. I couldn't be asked to do a six-minute walk. So there, have another beer, and then you crack straight on it, and then you're back on it. Anyway, I played that day. I did well, scored a few goals. And as luck will have it, that Mickey Alsell from Warsaw, his game was cancelled for the youth team. For some reason, their game was cancelled. So he'd come and watch his son. He was on the opposite team to me. he sees me and goes, who's this kid? I'm 18. I'm playing with adults. I played with adults since I was like 15 years old.

32:08So playing football against adults is like, it's a piece of piss to me. You know, we'd have like... But not everyone can adapt to that. No, I know. But again, it goes back to the old man. You're a tough lad, but not everyone can adapt to the 15s to go and play adult football. Yeah, but this is my old man. So when I started playing football and I wouldn't do it now, but I'm six years old playing under nines because he wanted me to get bashed about. so if I got kicked on the floor by the older kids and they cried they said if you let me like he'd say to them you let me cry I want to well this is the old days where they could you could smack somebody else his kid couldn't you can't do that anymore he goes I want to give you a clip so if I started crying they'd be like oi shut up get up and go and I didn't know any different crying weren't allowed probably similar crying wasn't allowed so get up you big furry come on Sanny get over with it yeah yeah all of that whereas now freaking out HR would be involved social workers all over.

33:00But that's another conversation for another day. But I just think, you know, I just didn't know any difference. Anyway, play that game, do well. Mick speaking to me afterwards, I want you to come on trial at Warsaw. It'll be this, it'll be that. So back then, Warsaw was what? Div 2, Div 1? Division 2, yeah. But they were going to win, trying to win the league. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all I wanted to do was get back into the bar because when we finished the game, we had burgers and chips. Bear in mind, I'm on this 240 quid that I cut to last the weekend. So I'm thinking, there's a free scrum there yeah get that go back home shower back because i had to because i didn't drive i had to be the one who's there first because you know if like the lad who drives like fuck it we're going we're not going to wait for me i am the youngest to be i'm not chipping in on petrol i'm not doing fuck all you know i mean i'm borrowing t-shirts at this point yeah so um i was like yeah yeah sound mate no problem and i jumped past him had a bite to eat um flew back home got back i'm back for about seven the lads you drive don't turn up till about nine but again in there i've scored so people are buying me drinks so i'm off cut before we go then it excuse me then it's on to town on a saturday night i'd go sobar in arcadian sobar from there up to monobar which is now closed down and i'll let you do your researchers do the talk on monobar you work you're not supposed to be there let's put it that way do that till four then it might be a little venture to Broad Street, have a look what's happening on Legs 11 on Hagley Road and then, yeah, get home about 6, shower, change, go and play football at 9.

34:31So you'd get up at 6, straight away get up, I wouldn't even go to bed on the Saturday through to a Sunday. And this was what, when you were 18? Yeah, yeah. So just slow this down a bit. Yeah, sorry. There's no academy, there's no nothing, you're just a game footballer as hard as nails banging in goals and just didn't realise how good you were. Yeah, but I always, well, I didn't realise then, I do now, My brother was training three times a week. So I was practicing three times a week. So I'm watching what they're doing, going out in the car park and doing it. I played Monday nights with my pals.

35:00I played Wednesday night with my pals. And then we had our games on the Saturday and Sunday. So realistically, I was playing seven days a week all the time. Football's the only bit, and I'll always say this, football's the only time I'm ever free. Okay. Where it's just like... In your mind? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I ain't got to worry about what's going on back home. I ain't got to worry about bills. It just brings me a purity that I can just be like, oh, this is mint. So how did you go from Walsall then to then get into Watford? What was Walsall like for you? Walsall was fucking... Yeah, I bet. I was about to say, because Div 2, that's good, proper football, isn't it?

35:32Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is the old school days when you had to do 4-4-2. Yeah. You had to clean the boots. You had to make everyone's meals, everyone's cup of teas. And I had some real good pros, some proper schooling. Like, I remember Tommy Mooney. Again, all these people are friends to this day because of that. But they would be like, I remember, I've told this story before, but you're like this. So we had Richard Money and we played Wickham. But I was travelling because they knew I was good. I was scoring in the reserves and I was big, I was powerful. But I was running over kids and they were like, yeah, you can do it against kids, but we're going for the league.

36:10I don't know, don't really want to put me in there. So I'd travel all the time, but I'd have to do reports on the other strikers. so he said to me I want you to watch this striker a guy the other time called Tommy Mooney I knew Tommy used to play for Blues and Watford so I'm a legend I know this guy and he's 37 at the time so I've gone like yeah old can look after the ball but he's old he's slow all it like nailed him but I've still give him credit but I've nailed him so I've gone to the gaffer on Monday there you go that's for you fast forward three months we fucking signed him oh no oh no so we signed him manager calls me in the office Tommy's sat there which is there pulls this note out of the fucking desk this is old school pulls the note out and goes read that to Tommy for me will you oh mate my arse is thinking I've just got in here yeah right this guy's just got to chin me and it's all anyway I've read it I've got boom boom boom boom to be fair to Moons he went fucking hell detailed that yeah very detailed how many times you fucking scored in the press yeah and I went none he said how many goals you scored in your career this part scored one he said one he went i suggest you shut your fucking mouth don't you yeah he went right so you're now going to clean my boots this is old school again you're going to clean my boots yeah you're going to shadow me in training after training we're going to stay out we're going to work we're going to do all these apparently you've got a bit but to me you just look like a little punk so yeah he didn't say punk obviously yeah but you're gonna you know we're gonna see what you're about and then from that i was like no problem because i'm a sponge so i was like go on then take me under your wing yeah let's go and um he did this thing that i still do to this day and i'm now my kids do it every time i missed the target if i went uh wide it was two press ups it went over it was five press ups but he wouldn't let me like after the training session it was like there and then yeah do it so yeah did you do it and then you just you start getting used to like right you do with 50 press ups in the training session you're like a you get bigger but b you're like i'm getting embarrassed now yeah yeah because my team's go fucking get back do you know what I mean and so yeah he was good he was good as gold for me but I had some real good good lads along the way that went on to have you know massive careers where did you where did you go then you went from Sunday football no money going straight into Warsaw what sort of dough were you getting at Warsaw I've still got it in my house what did you start what did you start on uh started on 50 pound a week okay and how long were you at Warsaw for until two and a half years and what did your money go up to 180 quid the best money went to just 180 180 quid.

38:36But if I played, scored and all that, the most I could earn was£800 a week. It was the most. So what was your goal bonus? Something like 70 quid per goal. And it was like 150 quid a start. 150 a start, 750 quid a goal. There's other bits and pieces. Yeah, like if you make 15 starts, you get five grand. Just shit like that. But the most it could equate to over the whole course of that last contract when I was their top goal scorer, one player of the year, was 800 a week. Lovely. How did your discipline change then? Because you went for a party boy. Did you carry on being a party but all the way through Warsaw?

39:15Yeah, a little bit. A lot. Carried on as normal? I had this imposter syndrome. Always thought it was going to end. They're going to fuck me off at some point so I don't want to lose my boys. I'm in the mix now. I could afford to buy a bottle. I could afford to get an Ed Hardy t-shirt. Do you know what I mean? tk max was the rest but the nr t-shirt was fucking was game yeah but um and this was the time like you know when converse were being sold in sports directs for like seven eight quid go a couple of pairs of them and could go out and look respectable is what i was trying to say for this is 2007 2009 era um so i'd be out tuesday thursday friday saturday most sundays love your honesty i'll be i'll be back but i've been work i'd never miss work yeah yeah i've always been work yeah so um yeah where was where was the point where you were banging in goals for warsaw that you were going you know what there could be an opportunity for me or did you not even think there's an opportunity to go to the next level so we took um we had so we had um we got michael ricketts ex-england and rico's like godparents of my kids now this is how much i I admire the man.

40:26He came in my second year and he was like, you're good, but you ain't got that finesse. And obviously Rico had started at Warsaw. So Rico at Warsaw, Bolton, England, Middlesbrough. He had like a Prem career, but he started at Warsaw. So for me, he was a visual representation of what you can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like, you're not technical enough to play in the Prem. So we did this game called Two Touch. And you probably see people doing that, but we this was old school to touch so it was cunt so as soon as you lost you lost four lives you got flicked yeah depending on how cold it was depending on the area they could flick you in so that might be your ears might be your nose might be your bollocks yeah but you're getting flicked yeah but it was all in the aim of getting you better but with a consequence on the end of it so when you start playing this game i've never played it never been in academy i'm getting flicked eight times a day do you know what i mean in all sorts of places and when it gets colder you're like but i'm now i'm getting frustrated but you keep doing it every single day until you're the one giving the flicks do you get what i mean yeah false and he was he was great in that regard and he did um you won't mind me saying this he did the big thing for me that was was showing me what real money was and again i'm 180 could a week and he we used to go on a friday if we've got to travel he'd go to mark's and spencers i never never even knew what mark's and spencers was we were still shopping in aldi a little so he went to mark's and spencers at a garage and he got pertinent now everyone has a percy pigs yeah they're about eight quid i think at the time i was fucking fuming i was like you know how many i could get from aldi for this but he'd go get his suite i had to go he'd pull up so i didn't drive at the time he'd pull up give me the uh give me his card go go to the cash machine get me 50 quid out bring me a receipt and this must have been around the time when i was like scoring and getting a bit leery and he's just humbling me so he's done that anyway got the receipt go in and get him his percy pigs his sandwich his crisps all of that bring it back there you go Mike there's you and he went just on that receipt how much is there and I'm not going to ditch him up but there was a lot of zeros on there I was like I think there was a mistake on the thing to get you another one he's like no that's what I got in my account I said you're good you're not earning yeah relax so I must have that week or that day be giving it the whole I'm the man shoulders have gone back a bit and he's like how much you got and i was living literally friday to friday because i used to get paid so i was like 25 quid i mean you can't even afford what you've just bought me there i was like yeah again because i wasn't it wasn't it wasn't to humiliate humiliate me it was to go perspective this is what you could have yeah get focused shut fuck up yeah do the work yeah and then the rewards come and um yeah he he was great for me but then towards the end of that year he was like mate you you're about to you're about to go everyone's talking about you and again i didn't really take it for anything and then in that summer um my agent at the time was trying to take me to charlton okay and then watford weren't even on the on the cards at this point who was your agent at that time i was with ian taylor ex villa player who was who went to school with my dad yeah okay so again very much didn't have a real agent it was just like oh you know was my own man so he's been in football he must know they were they were pushing me to chaltern him and a guy called um black was his last name i want to say roger black but i don't feel that that's the right name and he's gonna kill me because i was with him about three months ago and his name's got out there but anyway uh and they were pushing me to chaltern and it was like three grand a week relocation so 180 180 quid to get three g's you're probably thinking hold on I mean, I'll have a piece of that, sure.

44:12I'll have a piece of that. I was ready to fucking run there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Don't worry about putting it in the post, lads. I'll put it there. I'll make sure it gets to them first. And so we would go through that. And then I changed agents in the midst of that because I had four or five other agents going, well, we've got this team and we've got this team. But they were pushing Charlton. So in my head, I'm thinking no one does nothing. Again, going back to the old school, no one does nothing for free. Probably they're getting a little drink there. So maybe it's a bit more dough out. Let's explore these other options.

44:42Anyway, it turns out Watford were willing to pay me five grand a week. So I'm not fucking good as gold. And at the time, I didn't, to be 100 % honest, all I knew about Watford was John Barnes out of John and Graeme Taylor because of my granddad, as I said earlier. Don't even know where it was. Never left Birmingham at that point. So fuck it, let's sign. And how old were you then? 19. So you were 19, went straight to Watford on five grand. Did you look at any of the belts? No, sorry, I was 21. 21. Did you look at any of the belts? 19 would have gone to football. Nah, I just felt the numbers. So you just saw the numbers at Watford, five Gs.

45:12Five Gs, I'm good. Quarter of a million pound a year. 30 grand signing on for me. That could buy our house. Yeah. Our house was 52 grand. That really did. I do. Was there anyone guiding you going, do you know what, Troy? If you weld out a bit, there could be seven grand or ten grand. Or were you like, do you know what, five grand, I'm really happy. I want to go to Watford in the championship. No, it was just the numbers, for being totally honest. and again from my everyone that i was around you never spoke money about yeah so everyone is doing what they're doing making their money on the side you don't tell people how much you're earning and what you're doing the only reason you know it is what boat are they driving what watch they've got on their wrist do you get what i mean yeah no one's sitting there going i made x this week do you mean because then you're just a bit of a muppet yeah so um never really had anyone to speak to in my family at that time no one was really what i would consider successful and what i mean by that is own their own home solid add the i don't know a bmw or a ranger of what it was my uncle was starting his business at that point and again as you know starting business it's at least three years before you even break even and the first thousand days is the is the art if you break even after a thousand days in business you're doing really well yeah no one does yeah you've got to put five years in you know like 2 % of businesses get to 10 years oh okay do you know what I mean he's doing very well good for him he's at like 16, 17 now good for him and he's I'm not going to talk his business what was your mindset you're still partying you're still wall-sawing you're still the main man he's banging in goals who's this Troy Deeney unbelievable he just got to Watford I would imagine the North London press would have jumped on this new I never lived there no but they jumped on the press I didn't do any of that I didn't do the media I didn't live there I lived in Birmingham and drove down every day still wanted to be still wanted to be with the boys and what was the how long was the contract for what did you sign so you signed a four year contract yeah on five grand a week was there any was there any tweaks in that contract if you hit certain goals and if you hit this yeah more goal goal bonus win bonus stay not bonus if I played X amount of games it did this if I did all these different triggers but that whole want to be one of the last my whole thing was I wanted to be the realest footballer you could ever be whatever the fuck that means but do you know as a kid like you I've done it the odd way yeah I've done it the odd way no M no give no M yeah but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna change I'm gonna still be Troy that goes to the tavern I'm still gonna be Troy that goes to Chalmsey like you're still gonna see me in all the places you see me because I've not changed who cares about the money yeah when what really happened was it created a conflict which was fuck me I can buy a house I bought a house but I bought a house in Chalmsey was the first where I'm from I bought my first house there bear in mind it's like it was 120 grand house and had a 70 grand motor on an estate where most houses were 50 grand or council estates you got me yeah but troy so if you saw the white mercedes where i ran that's troy and i had left us and i'd go to all the boozes and be with all my pals and all of that fun stuff and listen i was by far not earning the most money in my area at that time but in my head i was but it created a conflict of i'm sure wanting to be true and real and and not change and the lads still respect me to then having another side of me that goes, I've only been doing this two years.

48:36I still don't know my ass from my elbow from being 100 % honest. And everyone needs to give me five grand. And I know I'm not the top earner at Watford. I know there's more. Do you get what I mean? All of these. But it was like balancing act between still trying to keep one foot over here. And I was getting into trouble a lot at this point. Fights every week. and then go to work. And then this is when I stopped going in on a Monday at Watford. And I always give credit to Malcolm Mackay and Sean Daj. They must have seen there's a talent in there, but he's going through something. So I must have had 19 cats that died, freaking relatives that died.

49:15Every Monday I wasn't in because I was under piss Sunday. Probably Nick a bird. And then what the fuck am I going in for? We don't do much on a Monday anyway. Going on the Tuesday. Oh, sorry about that. They knew. They knew what they just like. How did they balance that? Because Sean Dyche, I think what a fabulous manager and what a great bloke. What a bloke. Forget the manager, but that proper bloke, he gets it. He gets people. Did he get you straight away? Did he know what was going on in the back? He hated me because he was assistant manager at the start. Okay. Did he understand? Did he say to you, Troy, let me learn a bit more about you.

49:47What's going on back up in Birmingham? What's going on? Are you still part of the weekend? He was still trying to figure out his coaching aspects because it was Malkyad, his team, and Sean Dyche was part of it. And he was trying to figure himself out probably where he was at. And Le Gaffer, to this day, will still speak. He texted me last week. So it's nothing that I'm saying now he doesn't know. But I think where he was at in his journey and where I was at, he didn't have time to waste his time on someone like me. Bear in mind, he'd come through the youth team. So he had loads of youth team players.

50:24So he's probably looking at five or six lads that he worked with for two or three years. Bring them through. Bring them through on probably like 300, 400 quid a week. What I was at Warsaw going, we've got this entitled little prick over here about me. Well, fuck him. I'm going to look after these guys. And that's probably what he was. Did you sense that? I didn't give a fuck. Genuinely, do I get paid on 28th? Yeah. Who the fuck cares? Did you realise how lucky you were to be playing for a club like Watford? No. Did you realise when you were playing in front of Vicarage Road, which is a packed house, and you're playing first team, and you're banging the goals, did you realise how lucky you were then?

51:04No, absolutely. And throughout your whole career, did you realise how lucky you were? At 25, I realised. About 25, when I thought, oh, I'm pretty good here. Okay. And we'll get onto that. I don't want to jump in this little bit, but... Yeah. So the first year, I was obviously fucking about, didn't really do much bit of a bit of a piss take to be honest all by the way all my folks I'm big on accountability all fucking me Malky moves on to Cardiff Dicey takes over now to me that's my fucking worst nightmare the fella that don't like me has been nailing me for a year he's now the manager so anyway spoke with like Adrian Marriott John Eustace obviously he's a derby manager now in first day of pre-season I was like he ain't having me one bit and they were like look he's solid but he don't trust you.

51:51So he thinks you're under piss all the time. He was fucking right by the way but he thinks you're under piss all the time. You don't turn up. How can he trust you week in, week out? And I was like, fair enough. All right, so I made a conscious decision and this is going to sound really immature now but for six weeks, I'm not going to have a beer and I'm not going to go out for pre-season. And I did everything fucking right. You name it, I did it. I stayed down at Hatfield in the David Lloyd. I stayed there. I worked. I did all the stuff. Go to France for 10 days. I spoke about this story before, but you'll be bang on with it.

52:29So go to France and Daishi has this thing. He still does it where it's like no GPSs, no fitness coach going, oh, you know, Dodges a bit. His left arm is a bit sore. He calls it a breaking day. So he has two over the course of pre-season. on this Tuesday we're doing every line on the pitch and if someone half stepped a line we all started again but it was like it was like rows of six but it was racing and challenges and all that and we did this run it felt like about an hour and a half we did this run for we get it done that's Tuesday but what he's doing when the whole thing's going because I my personality is I'm able to connect with everyone so we knew I even though I wasn't in the team I was big enough influence on all the young ones so every run you gotta quit Troy Troy anytime you quit do you want a beer like literally for an hour and a half yeah yeah want a beer but I've got this thing and I think he knew it at the time and he subsequently told me did I've got to fuck you that little switch that goes okay you don't think I can do it watch this so we do that anyway finish up well done everyone Troy get a beer now that's how he ends the session so I'm like okay no problem fast forward a few more days yeah he has another one in the same week that never happened we did two in the same week and um we went down on the beach and we're just jogging he's taking the pace he sees the hills like right up and down 10 times so basically he runs till he's knackered and then makes up a drill for an hour and a half on the beach we've got to appear right sprints all that get back to the hotel like jesus christ got through it get onto the car park we didn't realized is the only staff member with us all the other staff are setting up the gym in the car park which is would be now considered a hit session 20 stations go everyone's got to go all the way through again in my ear gonna quit are you try gonna quit now it starts pissing down it's raining i don't like the rain i'm not i'm not built for the rain i got love dodging today i've got this big ginger fella screaming at me yeah it's raining i'm knackered i'm ready to quit maps it i'll go to Mapsy, who's with me, because Mapsy kind of took me on these things.

54:42He's like, fucking don't you dare quit. You stay in, you stay in, you stay in. Maps, he's fucking I'm going to wait to him with his dumbbell in a minute. He's winding me up. No, no, stick it out, stick it out. He goes, right, back on the beach. I'm thinking, oh, we've been going for an hour and 45 minutes. I'm thinking, that was upon set. He's going to do it two or three, but there's no way I can do this. We get on the beach. It's lashing down now. The red flags are out on the beach. Waves are coming in. He's like, right, who wants to quit? Troy, you ready to quit? You ready to quit? and I'm like I'm gonna do it you know you have the little demons I'm gonna chin him and I'm just gonna go home and then who cares that's literally I don't know Sean Dyche's hard as far but I'm just thinking I'm just gonna chin him call it a day we had a good run I'll go and play football with the lads hopefully it's good and he goes right into the sea you're all done and I'll never forget this is one of the most purest moments I jumped into the water I don't like seawater in general I jumped into the water and I was like I beat him yeah I do I beat him like he can't he can't say nothing now I've done his days I didn't quit and from that moment on he didn't he didn't play me until the January this was in August but he respected me yeah and in turn I respected him yeah lovely because the way he started he changed and was like you alright how's your mum how's this I'm like he's alright actually he's better he started going to war with him and in January again playing Millwall playing Millwall away Marvin Sordale we sold him to Bolton and we walked into the into the meeting room like two hours before the kick-off and Marvin's there but Marvin's used to sit at the front and Marvin was young Marvin Sordale was a little bit lively not me lively but more like that young arrogant I know I'm good you know and that's what made him as good as he was but he was normally at the front kind of like giving off that brash I don't care because I know I'm playing because what happens at every team you're all looking at the team team am I on I think I'm on but until you see it you don't know if you're on and he was kind of giving it all that but he had this different demeanour it looked like he'd been screamed at do you know like when you see probably me back like that he was very like looking out the top of his eyes that's a bit strange Dicey Waters right Marvin's not playing he's fucking off he don't want to be part of the team I didn't know they'd already had a chat and he'd said you're not going to be part of it you're going to Bolton but I've just got to make a point to the team so they were aware so Marvin's out who's going to step up and score the fucking goals then fuck knows why I went me bear in mind I'm not playing at this point he goes anyone else and I'm thinking cheeky bastard I've just told you but he's got anyone else Joey Gardner Joe's like me because we brought him in in the summer we both play for my first one of my first starts up front as a striker we win the game 2-1 we both scored and from january on to the end i've got 12 goals in the back last six months but in that typical me speak about me in the third person typical troy things are going well start going back out yeah my old man in february um it was my best pal's birthday my old man got done knows with cancer on the Tuesday we went out on a Tuesday night get into a tear up get nicked tell Dicey about it he was you know devastated but good as gold made it about me not about him and the team that summer my old man dies I get I get locked up oh mate yeah in the space of space of four months it's like so you were flying eye flying eye and all of a sudden bang and has that all come down to booze yeah did you know no that's that's a cop-out no did you ever use drugs never never so just a boozer yeah my old man did drugs when he bashed me and my mom up so that scared me off that yeah um secondly the the It's just about dealing with it, innit?

58:50Look, we don't, I don't know, what about how your childhood was, but we don't speak about shit. You go to bed and you get up the next day and it's the new day, you crack on, you don't sit and dwell and talk about stuff, but I'll probably give a little bit more context. I was raised by my great-grandma, my nan, my granddad, my dad and my mom, those five people. Up until my dad passed away, 18 months before that, I lost my great-none, my granddad and my dad in 18 months. so then I'm drinking drinking heavy at this point I'm on like four you know the cans of Jack Daniels yeah four of them on the way to work train four of them on the way back park the motor up and I'm out just because my suppress the feelings yeah but my network's gone yeah of course I get it who would you turn to then no one so you could say it was only tight mates you go mate I'm struggling because everyone's going for a seat back then there was nowhere to go and ask another fella go mate am I emotionally not feeling yeah can you imagine I couldn't even imagine it even to this day a couple of my pals I'm the youngest all my pals are older than me you have conversations and it's like sort yourself out yeah it's like get on with it you know you let them have a little 10 minute rant yeah missy's doing this work's doing that the kids want this and then you go you finished yeah and they go yeah yeah fucking pull your socks off then off we go yeah we've all got shit we'll hear your shit and again this is it's a little bit controversial but I want to get your take on it I've had a couple of friends who have done themselves over the last five six years taken themselves yeah yeah and I have a I have a weird take on it I can't I can't feel sorry for them and it sounds bad because I'm aware you know and I'm speaking to Jack as you know about helping them on certain things when I was in there last week.

1:00:47Jack is justaskquestion.app. So anyone listening out there who's got mind health or if you're thinking about suicide or you're thinking about you're depressed, just go on to jack.app, J-A-A-Q.app. It's an unbelievable, unbelievable. Everything's filmed of people who've been there, done it with a T-shirt just to help you. You can just ask questions. Mate, that business is going to be a unicorn business. It's going to be a billion-dollar business. The route they're going on is unbelievable. Unreal. No, so it's, it is, like you say, it's a real deal. And it's hoping millions of people right now. Yeah, and I asked them when I was in there, like, because it's just a taboo subject for me, suicide.

1:01:26And again, I don't want to ever come across like I'm insensitive. It's just my take on it. It's, I think we've all got problems. And, you know, without going into too much detail, I always think about, if you're going to do yourself, what are you leaving behind? but i me now you you guys in here probably all got shit going on today right now if you could do without that i've probably got about 16 things on i could do without but if ever i get the little bit of a feeling sorry for myself or whatever just turn around look at my kids and go pull your socks up son yeah do you know what i mean yeah i just can't wrap my head around thinking the best thing you can do is call it yeah i've had three mates take their own lives sorry to hear that yeah and it's a difficult it's a very probably very selfish on my part i i can't judge yeah i don't judge it's your your world but when that happens i think what how low have you been without talking or expressing your feelings or having a mate to bounce off how low you must have got to get to a point where you want to take your own life.

1:02:32Yeah. And don't get me wrong. In a weird way, it's brave as fuck, isn't it? Yeah. Can you imagine hurting yourself? No. I'm scared shitless of it. Or tying something out and you're going to put your neck into it. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you don't know what people are going through. And that's why I still go back to everyone. I'll be, just be kind and nice to people. 100%. Because you don't know what he's going through. He put a big smile on the face. I've got mates who've got big smiles on their faces. They've got a nice motor. They're driving around. They've sold their business. I know they're unhappy.

1:03:02I know people who are absolutely skint who are unhappy or skint who are really happy. You're talking to one now. You're talking to one now. I'm doing all right. Life's all right. Life's good. But it's the last period. And it's why I wanted to talk to you about it because it's a longer form. But the last two years of my life, I've been retired. Do you feel lost? Yeah, absolutely. That's why I did the SAS show. Because I've got everything. I do the life I need and want. when I needed things I'm going to get it done there's a need there's a fucking emotional thing there that I need to get this done to survive want so what it is now what do I want to do I mean the average is I don't really want to do fucking anything I'm a lazy bastard do you know what I mean at my core at my core I'm a lazy bastard I've done 19 years as a pro have you got enough money that you can last you for life yeah yeah but it's like beautiful again are you clever with money no absolutely Because that's the bit where most footballers or most rugby players, they finish, they're lost.

1:04:02They're like, I've lost signing the autographs. I've lost being the buzzer. I've got all this dough in. I'm not good with money. Now, people talk about earning money, but people never talk about saving money. And saving money is the key. And it's boring. That's the bit no one wants to talk about. It's a boring, strict lifestyle. But when I say I'm good with money, it depends on what your variation of good is, right? Can I drive a nice mountain for the rest of my life? And is the house paid off? Yeah. they're the two they're the two nicest luxuries of course it's paid off and you haven't got your motor on tick yeah like it's paid yeah but I want other shit like what I want the kids to go to the best schools they all go private school they're all good but I want them going and like my son wants to be a chef now he's 16 I want to be able to go right once you've done all the steps let's say 4 or 5 years from now here you go there's 70 grand there's 80 grand go and start that off do you know what I mean I want that like sometimes giving like that doesn't work it doesn't work 100 % 100 % and I'm not saying it's right and this is the great bit about these conversations right because no parent there'll be parents watching this oh he's got it wrong well if you knew what you was fucking dude you'd write one book and we'd all buy it off you no one knows what a good parent is well no one's taught how to be a dad no no no no one's taught business no and this whole country's running on 99 % of small businesses trying to earn a pound and that's why majority of businesses are losing money and folding up and folding 100 % and that's why the unemployment rate is doing that but no one's talking about this because no one's ever taught at school how to do business how to be an entrepreneur how to set up a business how to build a business how to create a brand we were talking about this last night with my wife right literally last night so i worked the spurs game last night so i got home about half 11 and we just have that you know that half hour chat before you go to bed and i was saying like our kids are in a wonderful position where they've got everything here my biggest concern is they ain't got this they ain't got the heart they ain't got the accountability of right if things go tipped up i've got to make it happen because weirdly it's my fault because they'll go he'll fix it he'll pay for it that better off yeah whether it pay for it whether it's go right come on then you need to get in the gym or right come on then we need to go and whatever it might be i'm always going to be that that leader in that regard the the the whole thing about being lost just to circle back is like in football and you know this in business you're right you've got to be here at this time you've got to do that you've got to do this shit if you want to stay in this because you've got to work a bit harder you've got to live it you've got to breathe it that's 17 18 19 years of my life while playing catch up for not having that before so always watching dedicated to football that finishes at 35 there's no after plan there's no aftercare it's you've been trapped in this box go on in yeah and the box is removed so at first you're like mint I'm going to go on holiday I'm going to play golf with the lads you have five games of golf three holidays it's a bit shit innit it gets boring 35 take up paddle tennis there you go I'm 35 and then I'm going into the hours missus has got her life she's doing what she's doing the kids are at school you're waiting for the time to pick them up and I'm looking at me and the dogs it's just me and the dogs I'm like what are you saying is this what retirement looks like so then that little bit of lost So what is it that triggers you?

1:07:17Because you've got to find something that go, I was good at that as a kid, or I want to do that as a... I'm massive passionate about it. How can I turn that into a little business? Yeah. Or a little hustle on the side. I've got four businesses now. What are they? Off the back of it. So we've got a hotel in Manchester. What, bought outright? Yeah, it's doing all right. You don't know your partners with people in it? Yeah, there's like four of us that own it. But yeah, that does well for itself. Got a football factory back home, which is literally an old warehouse which we've turned into five-a-side pitches and four-a-side pitches.

1:07:47What, in Birmingham? Yeah, it's how I might have been in Birmingham. We got that and then obviously got the property because that's what I used to be in. I hope my ex-missus don't watch this. She might come for some more. Beep that bit out of us.

1:08:01But, yeah, you know, just try to make things. What excites you? That's a great question. This goes back to, and just for the people that don't know, I've been sober now for 15, 16 months whoa, whoa, whoa 15, 16 months clean yeah, clean yeah, yeah respect mate thank you very much that's your respect thank you I want to go I want to hold that thought carry on what you're saying there but I want to hold that thought go on because I don't know whether you had this but everything associated with a good time had a drink involved absolutely so now I'm going through this phase of what do I actually like do you know what I mean what is it that I enjoy what excites you and the feeling genuine truth right now i ain't really found it yeah that thing yet but the exciting bit is i've always asked myself the question why not so like do the business venture pushing yourself to limits why not and i'm my worst critic like there's nothing any person on planet earth can ever say to me that that hits their heart and i'm gonna do it and um perfect example sunday what are we on now wednesday tuesday wednesday whatever day is your birthday more importantly thank you mate happy birthday sir but um 37 yeah I've put 35 for life for life 37 for life anyone that's every year 37 no I I suddenly had a big bite to eat had a full full grub watched the football watched the NFL because I'm big into American football had a load of snacks ate shit just one of them like I'm doing fuck all this woke up Monday morning I was like you fat bastard get to it from Monday back on back on it back in the gym cleaning back up switch yeah because because you know you can i can do it yeah yeah but it's finding that little thing now that's like okay what makes me get up and go right you're getting it other than me because we'll all have those days and i think don't think people talk about this you will have it where you don't want to do it but you just get it do it well that's where the discipline comes yeah but i think now done but you need to show urgency as well i was talking about being aggressively patient all right you know yeah Yeah, like aggressively patient in business.

1:10:08Like business takes time. I love building businesses. As you know, I've built lots and lots of business from the start-ups. Never been, no venture capitalist, no bank money. Built five businesses over the last 30 years in the sports world, in the media world, in everything that we're doing. And now obviously this world. But business takes time. But people want it urgently. Now on social media, everything's instant gratification. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And there's people up there with luminous cars behind them, fast cars, and they're walking on a plane. I don't buy into it. People who don't understand business may buy into that.

1:10:39And what it's doing is suppressing them. People are looking in and going, why am I not got that? Why am I not got that? There's not many proper entrepreneurs out there that I see are just going real and raw. And that's why we do the mentorship. Okay. You know, the mentorship is where I'm with you. Sorry, I'm sweating. I'm with you. And this is where we're going with it. I can help you across everything that you're doing with your businesses. Take it to whether it's a million, take it to three million, to five million, seven million. it might be talking about relationships might be talking about your uh building new businesses creating expanding taking it from 10 grand a week to 50 grand there's all this stuff that we do so i've got a question yeah i'm passionate about yeah i can tell this is all i know yeah i've never had a job i've just built businesses and and going back to your point there of waking up go and build something it's all right going by hotel wicked yeah you're gonna have you're gonna have your guaranteed money yeah touchwood going now yeah coming in that is doing well but actually going to build a brand is a beautiful thing because every day you're getting up and you ain't watching tv you're watching the sport you ain't watching netflix and wasting no no you're building something mate i'm not even blow smoke with your eyes and this is what i was going to tell you before it's a perfect segue into it again i believe it's like the universe works i'm not highly spiritual i grew up a catholic christian obviously still hold those values but um i do believe that like the universe i've kind of taught myself now my granddad and my old man going don't go right go left yeah every time i've got these crossroads i went for a dinner uh about a month ago a friend of mine uh alan graham and his partner 40 years married they've had this nice dinner just a couple of friends our mutual friend was there we were trying to have a chat all night but it just it just didn't happen fast forward he sends me a message he goes right well he's come and do an interview with me sit down but yeah no bother i'll be there i walk into this room my i got a mentor like business coach who's helping me as well might have to fuck him off and use you in a minute but sorry neil if you watch this but um but basically he sent me your interview that i think it was on spotify but i think you've just brought it out on youtube now with um the entrepreneur yeah sorry i forget his name two of us bouncing was it yeah okay but it was about um you know e-commerce um yeah marketing and strategies and the difference between marketing and sales and he sent me all of that because where we're going through now in our just going into year two of businesses we've done all of the first year and then i realized after like six months all my contracts were wank all my t's and c's weren't so i basically had to reset and do all of the basics again and we're now going into that marketing and sales area of the business so he sent me that i was sent my podcast yeah literally two days before this interaction an apple so then i walk into this to do this interview you're on the phone with our mutual friend and literally he's like oh dodged on it i was like mate that's fucking weird i'm literally just watching him on the way in yeah put it on the phone you go to fact it did a podcast you know what that's fucking weird i'm in london all this week let's do it and now we're here yeah and it how does it work out right i want right say where we are yeah mate oh yeah so you're in borbath i'm filming in southampton this afternoon perfect couldn't couldn't make do you know what i mean it couldn't make it but that's that's what that's what happens when the stars align things all come in at the right time so to me alright then you could either be a lazy bastard and get up at 10 or you know left the house at half 6 this morning get here we do this and yeah to have a great conversation but it's like how things align do you know what I mean it's just mad but those things align when you're clean yeah yeah when you're clean and you're in the present next thing you know 16 months clean these things align oh 100 % more people want to be around you yeah because when you're boozed up not everyone do you know what I get as well Sorry, I keep on talking.

1:14:23I apologise. It is your show. No mate, it's just all about you. I like that. I get a lot of people say to me of late, over the last probably the last 15, 16 months you were a lot nicer now. Or the first time I'm meeting, oh, didn't expect you to be like that. I'm like, what did you think I was going to be? And they're like, oh, the presentation's always been aggressive. Always been like, I'm going to dominate as opposed to, actually who I am at McCaw is quite a nice normal bloke. I could try and do normal shit. Like I drove, you were like this. Yesterday, I'm in the house, I'm waiting, I'm a bit like, got ants in my pants, so I'm going to go to the Spurs game.

1:15:05Don't want to be there too early and be keen, but also don't want to be late. So I'm like, right, the train's an hour, because you've got to get fucking eight trains to get through London, or you get a taxi, which is an hour and 25. Full leg to get to that round. or it's 45 minutes on the bike you know them fucking not lying but the tlc oh yeah oh do you take one of them yeah just bump i'm cycling through mate i'm driving past people and they're like london bridge and they're going

1:15:34fall up to next to a geezer in a taxi and he went is that you fuck you doing i just fancied riding the bike i just yeah cycled the bike all the way there fair play to the lads in the car park as well yeah they looked after the bikes and then i drove back which was i try and do normal shit yeah normal people biting that yeah people bite bless your soul ricky hatton yeah god bless your real legend proper legend but people bought into him because he's real it go down the chippy on a friday night it go down the booze and have a pint with the boys and he's real do you know i mean that's what people love and again that that's the bit to me like it's even you know just doubling back to the suicidal checks, I believe that's what they're suggesting it might be.

1:16:16And if I'm wrong, I apologise, but I believe that's the talk that's coming out. Even in that, Ricky Hatton, as we said, legend, but struggle to be Ricky Hatton, the person, without being Ricky Hatton, the boxer, the fame. Do you know what I mean? And that's really, really difficult for me to wrap my head around. I understand it to a degree, but you've got everything yeah so what is the what's the goal and i was going to ask you you said about being aggressively patient i'm obsessed at the minute with the start point because you'll hear everyone talk about processes uh procedures five-year plans you name all these fucking bullshit yeah but no one ever says right day one yeah what do we need to do depends what business you got but it also reverts back to life an idea well if you've got an idea you need to act today don't piss around it.

1:17:08A lot of people I know keep talking about their idea but they're stuck in a piss boring job they don't like. Yeah. So you've got an idea today. You're going to be, you've got your West Ham badge there. We'll get on to them in a minute. That'll be the for-hour podcast. There'll be loads of beeps in that. What are you doing at London Stadium? So you're taking, you're taking, you're taking over West Ham today, right? Yeah. You've got to take over, pardon me, their, their, their marketing team today. you don't know what you're walking into you don't know what it is but what is the what's Dodge coming in and what does he do with day one I would find out what's going on with the club who's making the decisions where's the communication between the fans and the owners all that I've seen I've seen if I looked in and I was going to do it I see there's a massive split the owner Sullivan don't want to speak to the fans the fans are getting infuriated it's like it feels a little bit like the country at the moment yes do you know what I mean it feels like it feels like the way the country is of our prime minister I want to ask you on that as well.

1:18:05Yeah. Because I'm not a political guy. Nor am I. And I don't want to talk politics. No, never. I think it's all bollocks. I'd rather stay awake from politics. But I just think everything at the moment is so fucking divisive. Yeah. It's separating groups. Well, people get angry, mate. Do you know why people get angry? Go on. Because there's loads of things. It's something, the written rule, and no one's ever spoken about this. And I've been in the nightclub world. Yeah. As you know, I own a festival, 30 ,000 people, part in the field of three-day celebrities, teams, da-da-da-da-da. Have it off.

1:18:38Have it off for 18 years. And now I'm in the media world the last five years. But no one's spoken about the unwritten rule of cash. Now, if you think you're a builder. You started to speak about this on the previous one. Oh, was I? Yeah. But I'm pretty personalised. Yeah, because you're a builder. You're getting 300 quid a week, 400 quid a week. Yep. Happy days. I'm going to put that in. That's my beer money. Yeah, yeah. Every builder would have had 10, 15, 20 grand stash. Of course. Every restaurateur owner would have 20, 30 grand. Every nightclub person would have 100 grand stash. The big companies, your Amazons, your Facebooks, your Metas, they're not paying tax.

1:19:14They're getting away with it because they're finding ways of not paying tax. The British public, if you were a florist, if you were a hairdresser, if you had a calf, you would have your rainy day money. All of a sudden, that's been taken away from you. So now you're trying to make your business work with no rainy day money, your fun money, that you take the kids' holiday with, or you'd buy the business a nice present, or prop yourself up because of a rainy day, if that goes tits up, okay, at least I've got this little pot. Cash been taken out of the system now where everyone's just tapping. Everyone who taps now, for example, you get charged 2%.

1:19:46So you're getting stung again, and the taxes are going up, and the corporation tax of your profit from 19 % to 25%, you're getting squeezed at every angle. Every angle. like it's madness and I'm seeing it as someone's been around the block in this world people are getting squeezed and becoming more unhappy and what it's making it's more divisive it's making people hate not enjoy the government my words right pain in the arse they think the government is squeezing us they're not communicating with us we're not liking the decisions you're making business used to be good in 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14 up to 19 I had a pandemic hit we're trying to make ends meet businesses are going out being knocked private schools are getting closed down pubs are getting closed down restaurants are getting closed down nightclubs are getting closed down but the one business that's thriving through all that is their business yeah is the government do you know what I mean we won't go into that but you've got to remember the government are getting paid if you're part of the civil service and you're getting paid by the council that's the safest job you can have in the world no one's sacking you unless you're caught doing something really really bad no one's sacking you yeah and I just mean that their business is doing well because on that everyone's still paying the tax you're still paying that's still going into their to their part but yeah but going back to west ham yeah no but i'll take it away from more than that it's just i think at the minute everything's so fucking divisive it's like it's ready to explode it is and and again this is like a world view but my my old man used to tell me the um that the seesaw is weighted against you does that mean you don't want to go on it and i was like i didn't get it for a while but he used to say to me like yeah it might be harder for you because you're from a fucking character state so what so what get up do the work show up all right my dad had a big thing on your last name is your first name so if you're a dean and you represent your whole fucking family sorry for the language you represent your whole family so if you're an arsehole everyone in your family to that person or that family is the dean is are arseholes.

1:21:46Yeah. So turn up on time. Yeah. Be respectful. Yeah. Shake hands like a man. Yeah. There were three things I thought. And look someone in the eye. Yeah. That was part of the shake hands. You do a deal. You do a deal. My old man is exactly the same. Have a listen to episode 245. Yeah. My old man comes on. He's a well-respected man. Yeah. Run boozes in London. We all lived above pubs in London. Little flat above pubs. Da da da da. We had a nightclub next door. We had two Alsatians. We had a Doberman. We had Cockatoo called Bubbles who used to squawk, I'm forever playing bubbles. I'm forever playing bubbles.

1:22:17We had a pet monkey. Pet monkey? Yeah, mate. Mate, you couldn't have written this story. Who asked for that? Mate, you couldn't have written this story. Who's Christmas list? My old man, right, was a bodybuilder back in the day. So do you remember the old sort of bodybuilding training trousers, the baggy ones, and the baggy ones with the branding on the side and stuff. And he was a tough, he was a tough, hard man. He was well respected in London. And that was his, that was the thing. But we had all these animals in a two-bed flat, like a council flat, living above a pub in London. Brilliant. On the River Thames, like a nightclub next door.

1:22:50And that's why I earned my trade as a young kid. Because you've seen it and you looked. Yes, yeah. We're having police raids. We're having doormen, gasters. All the craziness. And that's all I knew. You know, you're going back to all you knew. I just thought it was the norm. This is great. There was a load of cash. Everyone was abundant. Everyone had cash. Everyone was wheeling and dealing. People were serving up people. There's nothing you couldn't get. Yeah. You couldn't sell. Exactly. It was just brilliant days. but we didn't know any different like you said yeah and then now obviously you look a bit yeah people look in but but i think going back to the point is i think the beauty of of conversations is right let's say you have a view and i have a view and it's black and white beauty of a conversation is that gray area where we can both if we're being respectful we can both go do you know what didn't understand everything that you said but you've taught me a little bit i'll i'll think about that next time yeah and that's the beauty of the gray area and i just where life's going at the minute it's black or white and we're doing this like pointing out thing like i don't know let's say we i imagine we both had a tear up at some point in our lives i present myself publicly as troy d and he never got in trouble yeah and you go you've had a punch up and i'm going oh my god look at him look at him look at him and someone goes what about you no no no no don't look at me yeah we were talking about lodging and i just think fucking hell like we're so quick now as a but it doesn't have to be no and this is my point i don't understand why It doesn't have to be black or white.

1:24:14Yeah. I go about my world just staying in my bubble. In your bubble? Yeah, I have to, man. Is that a conscious decision or a life's made that happen? No, no, no, no. It's a conscious decision. Because I don't watch the news. Never watch the news. But this last year, I started watching, not the news, I started watching things, real life stuff, what's happening on the streets. I'm like, my God, this is real. This is bubbling. This is bubbling. So what I try to do, I'm lucky enough to have nice things in life. I'm not into the posh watches and sports cars. I've got nice things. I've got a nice family.

1:24:47I just stay in my bubble. I've got a nice little living-year-old boy teaching values in life, teaching look in the eye, teaching how to negotiate, teaching sales, marketing, branding, all the stuff we don't get taught as an 11-year-old. Stay in the bubble, nice mates, nice food, cup a glass of vino, stay fit and do the podcasting, do my festival and try not to listen to the noise. yeah yeah because as soon as the noise gets in it can affect your mind i don't want mine to affect i don't want that little man on my shoulder my subconscious mind going yeah what about that what's happening in birmingham you've seen what's going on what's that what's your future going to be like because it's all at the moment all the chat is doing my gloom it's boring yeah and that's but that's where i'm that's where i'm at now yeah into this new phase of life is like come off social media for about again 15 16 months don't see anything just do my work go home never really been one for the news my dad used to call it politics yeah so he said don't never watch that shit so we never watched that as kids so yeah i'm a bit like you but it's i'm in this like how do you uplift it's kind of where i'm at but i am i had a real thing about being selfish yeah because when it comes to work or sport football i can be the most selfish person in the world yeah i can get you had to be yeah but away from that i'm i'm very generous yeah i like to look after everyone i like everyone to have a good time but now probably since covid to be fair you have to have that little reset a little adjustment and fucking hold on a second what's what's going on here like again i'm no no problem saying it's you because you understand it but my bills at covid was 70 grand a month with my outgoings 70 grand 70 grand a month yeah well how do you break that down houses properties investments are you talking we're talking staff running a business nah like 70 bags for me um mom's house nan's house you name it like everyone's you're paying all the mortgages for everyone paying every but all of it in 70 g's a month 70 g's a month and then you obviously get into lockdown and we did a little thing at Watford where we i think most teams ended up doing it but we we like furloughed our money for like six months so then you go all right well we still got a few quid put away but you've got to cover those bills Yeah, but it also gave me a time to be like, all right, what's the bigger picture of you?

1:26:58And then, yeah, literally since then, over the time, it's been like, well, I'm starting to say no. That's powerful to say no as well. Cause some problems to start with, but now I'm like, nah. It's boundaries, you've got to have boundaries. Because when you have a pound note, people think you could lend them 10 grand, think you can look after them. And that's the other bit, once you've earned your money, it's about trying to protect it. people are earning the money earning money you get to a point where you've earned your dough it's like fuck man I need to protect it now I need to protect it from the government I need to protect it from the banks I need to protect it someone nicking did you ever have a number I'm just asking more if this is a football thing but everyone had a number they wanted to earn in football so when I first started obviously if you said about Warsaw if I could get to 10 grand a week like in my head that's we're set no one's got to work I take care of everyone that's 500 grand a year Yeah, but then when you hit that, again, 500 grand a year now, unfortunately, I hope people don't think we're being dismissive, but 500 grand a year isn't big money, is it?

1:28:01Let's be really honest, for the lifestyles that we currently contain. But when I had 180 pound a week, 500 grand was it in the lottery. Do you know what I mean? And then you get to that 10 grand and you're like, oh shit. Here's a question for you. Go on. You're in the changing rooms, you're on five grand a week and a four-year contract. Did that five grand a week guarantee change at all in that four years before you renewed your contract? Only if I hit certain targets, it went up. It never goes down. No, no. But you'd always be five grand guaranteed. Yeah. But then you have your goal bonus. No, but you might be like you play 30 games and then the following year, as soon as you hit the 30 game, that goes up to eight grand a week.

1:28:42Okay. But these are all preset in there. Okay. So that five grand a week year one at Watford, in year four, before you renewed your contract, how much were you getting? Mine was all five grand because I just wanted the guarantee. Guaranteed five. Okay, done. When you renewed, what did that five grand jump to? My first renewal. So I didn't sign a new contract until year two because obviously I went to jail. No, sorry, year three of the contract. So I was going into the place. So I went to jail. I come out and I've got a whole new mindset. I'm like, I'm never going to fuck this up again. Basically, you're getting it.

1:29:17and the best thing that happened to me again after coming out of jail was on tag so i did i was seven till seven yeah so again i'm driving from birmingham to london but i'm waiting at the door like 659 as soon as it goes seven bang i'm in the motor i get there for like eight half eight depending on who's listening and how fast i was driving but i get there between eight and half eight as soon as i'm in i'm working do all the day and then i knew i had to leave at four 4 45 to make sure I was in because of M25 traffic, M1 traffic, you name it. But for those three months, that's all I did. Straight out the door, bang.

1:29:55I'm in bed by eight o 'clock because I'm in at seven. Were you clean at this point? Were you boozing? No, no. I was still, I wasn't drinking in those three months. Because you couldn't go out to the club. So you were having a couple drinks at home. No, I'm never a house drinker. Never sat in a house and had a beer. Not my property. Boring. Yeah, like, I don't get it. if I'm going to have a tear up like a proper drink like I want to be around people yeah I want to see people I want to interact I want to do all that I want to hear music I don't want to be in charge of doing the music myself on Spotify that's fucking boring so yeah I did that for three months we're in that three month period Watford have been taking I've had loads of players Jan Franco Zola was the manager so when you come out of Nick Jan Franco Zola was the manager yeah yeah yeah so I went from Sean Dyche 18-20 players we had to coming out in September back 42 players we had when i walked in and jab franco's the manager all the backroom staff changed all of the the the normal administration like 75 of them had changed because the ownership model okay and the way again did he know did he know who you were we played west ham the year because west ham were in the championship remember they got they get promoted we played west ham at upton park and i played really well and he was he was there did you start yeah i started by his right wing okay like i worked play as a striker but i played really well in that game we lost 2-1 um but he was he was there invited as a guest so again this is why i believe i was there and you'll understand what i'm saying so i i'm in nick whatever i've seen in the paper reading the sun and that freaking watford side watford side watford side jesus christ and a week before i come out they have to put the as you know they put the squad listing so lads get to ask for their numbers and Matty Vidra who's a legend as a bloke he went can I be the number nine but in all this turmoil of getting the squad changing over the ownership getting the manager in getting all the players in fixing everything up no one had noticed that I weren't there oh mate so literally a week before I'm due to come home on tag Matty Vidra said I want to be number nine and someone's going who the fuck's number nine like yeah like they've got yeah you can have it and he's going well some Dean he's got it yeah They're like, who the fuck's Deeney?

1:32:09No one had noticed in that period of time that I weren't there because there was so much chaos happening. Anyway, it turns out what saved me was no one had, they hadn't given me a written warning. They hadn't given me nothing. Your contract was still there. My contract was still there. I hadn't been paid in that time. And obviously I'm never going to kick off and go, you owe me the dough. But what happened was no one had noticed. So they worked out it would take at least three weeks to get me out of the contract because you've got to give me a written warning. you know all the hate trial stuff yeah so they went right let's have a look let him come back in let him train let's have a look and uh yeah the day i went in and when i sat with jam franco he told me obviously saw you at west ham you were great blah blah blah blah he's like but look mate we've got we've got nine strikers you're the ninth striker so you know i'm going to be honest with you i'm going to struggle and i just did what you did there started laughing yeah and he went oh you know jam franco lovely bro it was my my english bad you know and i said no i understand but give me a week he's like what do you mean give me a week by the end of that week I played in a pre-season like a mini game for the others against QPR scored in that and then I've come on the bench the following week brilliant and then the week after that yeah that was in the midweek and then the week after that I started scored the winner and the rest is history unbelievable really but yeah amazing but again it's because Gianfranco was willing to go okay fair play give it a go yeah yeah fair play Frank goes, what a player.

1:33:37What a bloke. What a bloke, what a player, what everything. What a businessman. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know he's got the ice cream. Yeah, there's a few good on the ice cream. We don't like to talk. Sorry, Gaffo. I want to roll back a bit. Why did you get banged up? Fighting. Okay, where about? Broad Street. Broad Street. Yeah. What happened that night? I touched on it a little bit earlier. Again, I'm always conscious as well. I do have to say this, Dodge, and I hope you give me the space of it. But when I'm telling this story, this is my story, this is not to glamorise it because I'm confident there's a family on the end of it, there's a victim on the end of it that sit and have to hear this.

1:34:19Probably heard this story a thousand times and their point of view of it would be I'm being rewarded for my bad behaviour. Do you get my point? Yeah. So I want to be really conscious. I've said sorry for my actions a billion times and I'm sure I'll say it again I'm sorry for my actions who I was then versus who I am now are not the same and I hope you're doing alright in life as whatever you guys do and how you're moving forward as a family so I, my old man on the Tuesday as I said went to the hospital with him, found out he got cancer was terminal cancer of the esophagus my best mate's birthday was on that same night my old man, as soon as he found out was like dropped me to the pub got me at the pub by two i'm like dad you just found out you're cancer you're not gonna go home he's like no no because if i don't go to booze they're gonna know something's up so drop me there so he goes and he drinks so i thought fucking i'm gonna i'm gonna drink then so i went out all day all night steaming walking down broad street go to the motor but i'm i'm on i'm on the phone at this time like blackberry i assume trying to trying to nick someone on the way home and someone goes your brother's there my brother's younger than me at least but like I didn't know he was out with us but someone said your brother's fighting there and all I heard was brother fighting and I turned round and you know when like you're pissed and you're a bit blurry but you really quickly sharpen focus and I just seen like a melee happening and all I thought is our kid's in there and I just yeah just lost my temper and just steamrolled through and hit any and everyone until I found him but um again i believe that i was supposed to go to jail i genuinely believe that were you at a point where that was the turning point to go jesus he needs to calm down he needs to slow down otherwise i know you got a 10 month huh you did three months yeah it was three and three yeah if that hadn't happened something bigger could have happened you might have got a 10 yearer well funny you say that right so in the court you know obviously i pled guilty anyway yeah so you my my My legal advice was to plead guilty because obviously you can't change it.

1:36:27But in court, the judge was like, why is this not GBH? He was going to give me a minimum of three and a half years. Minimum. But I believe it was to happen because this side of the street is where the cameras are. And there's all a row of black cabs. Yeah. And as I hit the individual on the floor, it parted. like the cabs obviously someone must have bobbed into the cabs they've all started moving but literally as that moment of impact it does it's blatantly me it's blatantly do you know what I mean yeah so I'm I again not to you know belittle it in any way shape or form but I genuinely believe that was was meant to happen because again if that stays short I probably can fight it and go that weren't me you've got no proof.

1:37:19Yeah. But as soon as we see the video, it's like. What did you get then? You didn't get a GBH. What did you. Afray. Afray. Mm-hmm. When he gave you 10 months, were you happy? Knowing that. I was numb. Longer or. I was numb. Okay. I was numb. Like I say, I buried my dad on the Friday, went to jail on the Monday. Is that close? Mm-hmm. So I was very like. At this point. How old were you at the time? 21. 21. Yeah. Who cares? that's again not big enough who cares you just took my my superhero away yeah my granddad's gone my nan's gone yeah who gives a shit that's genuinely like it was self-destruction yeah and then obviously you get banged off the door shuts and then it's like that survival switch i'll deal with it yeah let's get on with it and then that that brought me into like therapy that to do therapy i had to do the alcohol awareness and like you know all these things to do to get out and then got me starting to you know reflect on myself like you know do you want to go down that route is that what you want to do type have you ever seen the lad no only thing i know is his old man was it you know obviously you and doc his old man was there and stared at me the whole time and my arrogant self was just watched him the whole time yeah okay not again not to be just like at that time like you're not going to outstair me yeah okay you're not going to do You know what I mean?

1:38:43Yeah, yeah, yeah. But really what... 21 years old, big down, a little boy inside. You're a little boy inside, but I was giving it the big one. Of course. So don't... I've gone through this, this, this, and this. Yeah, okay. Don't you judge me was kind of what it was. But then now, my lad's 16. If it was the other way around, fuck me, I need more than that glass to keep me there. Do you know what I mean? So I'm not saying that again as like giving it the big one. It's just like, at that time, my mindset was like, fuck you. Yeah. My world's already crumbling. Have you ever bumped into the lad that happened that night?

1:39:13No, I don't think so. And if you did, would you be open arms to have a chat with him? Yeah, always. Yeah. Always, yeah. Like, again, I don't know what there's to talk about. Maybe he could give me his point of view. Yeah, just give me his point of view. And then I have to stand there and speak. That wouldn't be much of a conversation. I'd just be... Would that make you feel better? Or would you rather go, do you know what? It was what it was. You know what, don't sound nasty. It is what it is. Yeah, okay. I'm over it. The only reason I talk about the situation is to help others. others if they come up yeah like you know we're all different yeah yeah it's not i don't i'm gonna say i don't go to bed thinking about it yeah it is what it is it's part of my life and i've spent the last 12 years trying to give a different version of me yeah you know i know that's always going to be there so we can't do a podcast or do a charitable thing without someone going to form a convict that's part of my life so i have to talk about it but what i do like to talk about now is what you're doing what was the feeling like when you come out of nick did any of the fans jump on that at all oh yeah what sort of what sort of abuse would you get in away stadiums all sorts club i would get i'm playing with a tag as well so you actually had a physical tag yeah yeah so how long was that tag three months so it was around your ankle for three months yeah playing did the refs have to say anything say you can't play that or you got to go in and And it's funny because it's a little bit different now that I've changed it, but you used to have to go in, the captains and the managers have to go and give the team sheets, have a little talk.

1:40:43And then I'd come in afterwards because I wasn't capped at this point. And then he'd look at how it was strapped up or if there was anywhere a stud could get to it. And I remember having chats with the refs and they were like, they didn't teach us this in the manual. Okay. Like, this is not part of the handbook. Yeah, we don't really know what we're doing. So, yeah, just made sure it was bandaged up. and the hardest parts were like, I could never stay over, so I had to travel on the day. I remember doing Blackburn on the day. Excuse me, that was a bit of a graft. Cardiff on the day. I did Cardiff on the day.

1:41:17What do you mean? Because obviously I'm on tag. Yeah, you're on tag. What do you mean Cardiff on a day? So instead of skipping over, you'd have to come straight back down. I'd be from house, leave, go play the game and then have to be back. And was there any other times you were after 7pm? You're like, listen, I had a way match. I couldn't do anything. no they were they weren't happy i was a help basically the judge wasn't so they were very uncomfortable like they made it very difficult to jump through the hoops to get it done um there was one of the times as well we played cardiff and it was a it was a it was a it was a 7 30 or 7 45 kickoff and we'd argued for like a week to get this time moved and i had to be back at 3 p.m.

1:41:59It was like a three and a half hour drive at that time to get back. Freaking get argued, get it all done. I get there, get to the hotel. I'm here to get ready to go. You're on the bench. I was fucking fuming. I'm like, do you know how much you just had to go through to get this? It doesn't bring me on. He's like, oh, you've got to do the running. At the end of the game, I was like, fucking no, to Jabra, no chance. Mate, I've got to get home. Got hit in traffic and I just made it in at 2.58. and I just made it in but because it was getting kicked I don't know if anyone's been on tag if that gets hit they think you try to take it off yeah yeah yeah try to unscrew it yeah yeah so the phone yeah but the phone goes off back at the house and obviously if you don't pick the phone up they're suggesting you're trying to leave so imagine my thing's been kicked five six seven times a game so every time I had to explain to them yeah it was just paperwork after paperwork going back to your contract yeah I want to know when you went for that five grand what did it jump up to next The first one went to$21 ,000.

1:42:59Happy days. Yeah, I went to$21 ,000. And so after that four-year contract, how many years in did you renew the contract that they wanted you to stay? Every year. Okay. I renewed five years in a row. So that gave you one-year contracts? No, still five-year contracts. Five-year, but each year you renew. But then I understood business then. Yeah, okay. So I understood if I do well, I get paid. Chad Franco talked about it. Yeah. You do well, you get paid. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, but what does do well mean? because mine do well. It could be played. He's like, no, no. Score goals, you get paid. So on the Jamfragore, it was the first time in my career I ever scored 20 goals.

1:43:33Yeah. I get paid. I go from the 5K a week to 21. Yeah. I'm like, fuck it. Made it. Yeah, yeah. Made it. Smashing it out of the park, yeah. So that's your first million pound contract. Yeah, just short of a million. Yeah, just short of a million. Yeah. And then... Happy days, by the way. Oh, mate. Happy days. I was... You know, this is how quick it changed in the football. I was looking for a new house in Solihull at the time. I was in Chalmers and I was, again, I was still getting into trouble. So I was one eye of, let me get out of there. And looking for a house, looking for a house, agent first.

1:44:05But yeah, deal's done. You know, got to sign it tomorrow, but all done, locked in. Boom, boom, boom. Happy days. Because he said to me, I need to get you out there. So I was looking at properties for like four, 500 grand. And my budget went to 1.2 million. Yeah. As you know, when you're looking for gaffes, it's like fucking... Happy done with some of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then your mind starts ticking. What does 2 million look like? There you go. So I bought this house, got a couple of motors. Again, I've got all the cars, all the clothes, you name it. I've got the lot. But I still had this work rate of like, all right, now I want to keep it.

1:44:40And then the second year, I scored 25. But we finished 14th, 15th. In the championship. In the championship, yeah. But I scored 25 goals. and then like Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Celtic, they all were sniffing around. But Watford were like, look, we can't sell you because we're going for it next year. And I was like, well, bollocks, you told me that the year before and we ended up finishing 50. And it was a bad year. I did personally well, but I hate losing games. So they were like, okay, let's renew, let's renew, give you a new contract. So I went from five grand to 21, from 21 to 50. in 24 months.

1:45:21Mate. Yeah. Game changer. But every year from that, I saw the five-year deal. Yeah. Five years in a row. Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah. After the 50 grand, what did it then jump up to? 72. And then the last one. Last one went up to what? Last one was 129. You're joking me. Yeah. For five years.

1:45:52Oh, mate, we need you to fucking stop the whole thing and go, drop the mic. Wow. Yeah, 129 on the last one. We had... How many years were you on 129 for? Five. So you had five years on 129. So it's a five million pound... Just short, yeah. Five million pound a year. Well, including... Because I had, like, bone... I still had bonuses and all that in. So it was just short of six million good a year for five years.

1:46:18we did we did all right wait that is quality yeah we did all right that is quality yeah but did you change oh absolutely oh you did you did change so the more money you earned did you change as a person yeah become more of an arsehole like okay arsehole in the sense of like i think at my core i was fine but no one told me no no one in around me was like don't do that and don't do that i've said so some of the stories before but going to vegas and doing a million half quarter of a million quid in four or five days with three lads is it's not a clever thing to do did you drop it for them as well said yeah you're on me lads yeah what private jets no no no just first class flights best hotel suites and four days on it did 80 grand and a nightclub one night just to get them to change the music.

1:47:11You know, Vegas back in the day was all house and heavy. That weren't really my scene. So every time you brought a round they'd change your music for three or four songs. So fucking every time it went shit. Yeah, do another one, do another one. Did you understand a pound note? Nah. Because this is quick, right? This is quick. So you've gone from 180 quid up to 129 grand a week. In six years. In six years. But even if you had gone from, forget the first bit. Yeah. from the five from five to 21 that's a very big jump and 21 to the 50 yeah big jump and then 50 there's 70 75 200 what was the point when you're like this is unreal i don't really understand money but i'll have that car i'll have that clothes you can have well i just wasn't i just wasn't never told no but was anyone around you like guiding you about a pound yeah you'd have like you know agents you'd have accountants and but if i went again sounds bad because i probably could do for a few more years of it now but if you turn around and go um i would go for example i want i just saw a lamborghini i want that and i'd go yeah yeah but it's got to do didn't know get it to me by tomorrow i want it i want like and that was how it was like you just i want it now didn't care about apr i didn't care about rates interest just get it to me yeah and figure it someone else to deal with it yeah and then further down the line when there's something to do we'll figure it out we'll fuck it off and I had a Lamborghini frigging Aventador how much what's the most you've ever spent on a car

1:48:42270 270 Lamborghini Euros I've had a few Lamborghinis a few Bentleys weird thing is I'm not really a car person but I love driving ok do you know what I mean yeah ok I love driving like just fast forward now I was renting a motor last week I was in a Volvo because I've never driven a Volvo. Fucking sent it back after three days. Piece of shit, mate. But it was just like, I just like driving. What was that feeling like? Like you're spending a quarter of a million quid on a motor. Like after the first three, four days, does that buzz fade away and go, God, I'm actually looking for something else.

1:49:19Actually, it's not about buying material things. Did you ever look inside? You're always looking for that next hit. But did you ever look inside and go, actually, maybe buying all stuff is not giving me happiness? no because i weren't happy at home as well that's my point yeah i weren't happy at home and i got divorced as well i got married to a girl at school with we weren't good for each other but it's that whole how it should be yeah do you know i mean oh you went to school together you stopped me with jay or all of that we had kids together but we like she weren't happy with me i weren't happy i wasn't a good partner like from being 100 honest i wasn't i wasn't a nice person to be around and then I was just yeah I had a group of mates and we went everywhere together and we did everything but I probably ruined half of their relationships their families now will be telling you they're glad I've stopped drinking because I'd phone them at like 9 o 'clock on a Saturday let's go I'm picking you up in 20 minutes and they're like oh I'm in bed I'll be there in 20 minutes and they'll know I'll turn up and I'm bibbing you on until you come out that's it and we're going out I don't know where we're going I don't know how we're doing we're going somewhere I've been in a casino before what's the most you've ever dropped in a casino weirdly not a lot okay not a lot to you like three grand four grand but like not a lot in the sense of like gambling and and like drugs have never really been my thing but I can go to a casino watch a boxing match but go with let's say I go with five grand let's say I'm happy to lose that five grand yeah because you know you've got it in your mind but that's it oh I said for the event yeah I've gone out we're going to have a good time i'm gonna have drinks but i'm gonna lose 5k if i win if i come home with a grand if i come home with 20 grand whatever it's happy days but my intention is if we lose i'm losing that 5k and that's my limit and i'm not gonna go and get more yeah don't race the dragon yeah no no it's just done so yeah i'm not really um but it was that go go to the casino i remember we was in the casino before we was watching a fight i can't remember who the fight was the fight ended early and it was about 11 o 'clock and a couple of lads i'm going home and i just didn't want to go home because we weren't great so i was like should we go london i'm in boeing at 11.

1:51:29should we go london i ain't got no fuck it come on let's go battled it down in the motor got to like libertines at like fucking one o 'clock it's only two hours left i want that best table i want this do your Reloading it, back in the car, straight up. But just to not be at home. Sad, really, isn't it? Yeah. When you think about it, sad as fuck. But that was a life. That's what you're doing. I love your honesty as well. Always, yeah. It's not too glamorous. I always think, you know when you're getting this sort of money, no one's taught you money. No. No one's taught you where to invest, what to do.

1:52:03The natural thing is just buy houses. Yeah, yeah. That was the natural thing that most footballers were. I always thought, imagine a footballer being paid in cash. Fuck me. So at the end of the week, I'm whacking you,£129 ,000. I've piled them up all in grands here. There's 130 grand in cash is probably. You're looking like whatever, 10ers or 20s, 50s would be a lot smaller, whatever. But actually to go boom, you've just worked a whole week, Troy, and there's your dough. I wonder if that would make you go, bloody, rather going all in the wall and just seeing your numbers going out. It probably didn't mean anything.

1:52:36It didn't. And the problem is, again, the tap culture. You could tap away. i was probably the start of that and then you say i used to walk around with with cash a lot yeah like three four grand and again with the banks that i was with could order money so if i know i'm having a big weekend it's like send 20 to the house yeah and again but the problem isn't wasn't getting the money it was keeping the money because you get it you spend it let's say it's the 25th you do you do your loads let's say i'm making numbers up there but let's say you do 50 50 grand I don't know, he bought a motor or he bought a house.

1:53:1128th every month, three days later, it's back in. It's coming again. It's back in. So you've never really seen it go. Because, again, you get to a point in life, don't you, when you're not looking at your account every day, every week. Do you get reported? Of course. You're just going, oh. Happy days. It doesn't really mean much, though, does it? No, no, absolutely not. So how can we get around that? Why are so many ex-professional footballers gone bankrupt or gone skint? Because of these conversations. no one's really having the conversation about like what what does happiness look like yeah because in football i mean in athletes world maybe a business world but i've not been in it long enough but athletes world it's always like you're competing with everything yeah so your lads the 25 lads in my team we're competing yeah we're all competing yeah so if you've got a new motor i'm going to come in with a new motor if you've got a new wash bag i'm coming in and it's very petty but everything's a competition because from pre-season to the end of the season you're judged on what do you do every single day and i think that's the conversation that's like okay what does happiness mean to you because your happiness my happiness and your happiness are all completely different yeah yeah but weirdly we're all trying to be to the same level but we don't all earn the same do you mean it's just but yeah so going back to that then if you've got a player or you're in there in the on the coach on the way to a match or something were you gambling in the back were you all playing cards does that get in the way of going right you've you've just you've gone on up After, I don't know, you've got Man United, you've lost 10 Gs.

1:54:36If you can afford to lose 10 Gs, you can look for it. No one wants to lose. You're competitive. Does that cause a problem between the players? There's got to be some angst between the players because the piss take comes in. Yeah, because we had heard some stories about how that did affect other teams and other players, especially from the past. We used to have a rule. So we'd play on a Friday and then Saturday. No cards before the game. So you play Friday on the way up to a game. you play Saturday after on the way back but all debts had to be cleared by the time you got to your car so you could never get two yeah okay out of hand do you know what I mean so if you owed if you won 10 grand off me by the time you got to your motor yeah so there was none of that like you're going home good yeah I've won 10 grand and Troy owes me yeah and then you know Sunday you're chasing me when we're training for it and then Monday getting a bit aggy yeah it was just like if we're going to play cards, it's a bit like a casino.

1:55:31You either come with your cash and you deal with it or you ping it there and then. So that's how we kind of got around it. What sort of stadiums did you really, really love playing at? What was it? Did you enjoy the Cop? The old school ones. The old school ones. Give me some old school stadiums you loved. Upton Park. I loved that park. Do you enjoy that? Yeah. Fucking loved it. 36 ,000 people. Everyone looking over the top with you. Aggie. Yeah. But also just the driving in again from a player's point of view the coaching narrow roads do you know what I mean everyone's out there before early yeah so you've got that you've got again I love the den I think that's fucking bang on yeah for as much as I don't like them and they don't like me Villa Park St James St James Park Newcastle is still to me one of the best in the country that's amazing and you know what I love about that it's right in the mix yeah I went up West Ham West Ham Newcastle a couple of months back bang you come out of the thing bang all of a sudden there's a massive stadium yeah yeah yeah bars yeah it's it's the only one where the town's built around that isn't it so um yeah i'm up there i'm up there tomorrow to be fair yeah doing the barca game so um yeah those four i did like the old tottenham stadium white art lane yeah um i never got to really play there i was on the bench both times i was fucking fuming so manager manager was trying to rest me for the game after and it's like yeah it weren't good trying to think what else i like Old Trafford and Anfield for the nostalgia the history it's not the same anymore I would say but yeah just those old Goodison Park proper have you seen their new one?

1:57:07I was there on Saturday how good is it? is it special? it's very nice I've heard I think Tony Bell you said like the volume there is like the third in the world or something of just the fans the echoing around keeping it sort of the whole stairs no one's talking about it it's fucking like that yeah it should be yeah it's proper Going back to your West Ham question, dream come true, new owners come in. I've got respect for the owners of what they've done. I haven't got respect of taking us from Upton Park. We could have made that a 50 ,000 cap stadium, taken by the Chicken Mun. We could have done all that.

1:57:37They said there was a questionnaire that went out to fans. Bollocks. None of us would have signed to go to the London Stadium. Best case, I understand why they did it. 60 ,000, more revenue. We've had a great business point. Business point, I get it. Yeah. But actually, when you go in the stage, in the build-up to it, when we were all there, the first in 2016, 2017, you go there, you're all excited. You go, where's the atmosphere? What's happened? We played there. We beat you 4-2. You were 2-0 up. I'll never forget it. You were 2-0 up. I remember. Payet did the freaking back flick. He was unbelievable.

1:58:14And you were popping us off the park. And we had Valon Barami at the time. You used to play for West Elf as well. Yeah, that's right. He was good. He was decent. Yeah, he's a good, proper bloke. Proper bloke. And I remember in the game, we were 2-0 down. And it was like, it was either Payet or Lanzini. And he was taking the piss in the corner. And I'm sprinting back to get him. And so is Vallon sprinting to get him. And he's turned. And Vallon just won the ball but smashed him. I've then gone. And we all kind of looked at each other and was like, fucking, they're getting it. We're 2-0 down at this point.

1:58:45But because the ground was so far away, it never felt like it did it up to partway. It's like they're 2-0. they're on top yeah it was like a bit like a pre-season game yeah it was nice I know we never had that we don't like nice yeah and then we ended up beating you 4-2 on that day and it's like but I think if you were at Upton Park we'd have probably lost do you know what I find when you look at that when you look at Newcastle West Ham fans they put the West Ham fans right in the corner top you can't hear them can't see them West Ham at London we put the away fans right behind the goal what's the point get them up the top push them all up the top just to give them I love that about Newcastle I love that as well because if you're When you've played there, every four corners of the ground...

1:59:25A dual issue. Yeah, and you're getting it. I loved playing there. I still love going there. They're not too happy with me, but other than that, it's fine. I said a few comments recently that they weren't too happy with. Is there not... That's a good point, in fact. As a pundit, you now can voice what you want. What's the backlash you get? And where can that come from? Is that the reason why you're taking yourself off socials? Do you know what? I don't need that backlash. Yeah, the backlash really comes on socials. I don't really see it, so I don't really care. no one's ever and i mean it's ever come up to me probably simply to you god dodge i'm that geezer off twitter and i said this yeah no one's ever done that you get like you get the odd person that shouts from a distance and you know there's five of them whatever so what yeah again i'm in that i'm just in the space of you're gonna put your hands on me the answer is no if you do i'm allowed to do whatever i want to do but the only thing i will ever say is my opinion is never based on trying to get clicks.

2:00:21He's never based on trying to entice someone to feel like I'm going against their team deliberately. It's normally said, this is just my general opinion from being in the dressing room for so long. And secondly, probably a little bit of banter in there. You know, if it's about Villa, I'm going to have a bit of banter about Villa because anyone speaking about Blues would do the same. So you're not going to speak well of any Millwall team. Do you know what I mean? I do like them. Exactly. You can be respectful, but you've got to have a little poke and you expect it back. and that's it so you know 98 % of people I bump into in life now they all go fair play do you know what I mean and because you see me again what I used to do as a player being in the pubs and the clubs you see me now I go to every ground up and down the country I've got no concerns who are you working for today?

2:01:07today's for the EFL YouTube no I mean not for today but actually your work today today is TalkSport The Sun BBC CBS and then yeah any air foul stuff so you keep them busy yeah does that make you happy i love working yeah i love working yeah like i'm my next day off is from last last friday my next day off is tuesday but i'll go every day and then tuesday i'll crash and i'll have a family day doing nothing and back on the back on it wednesday i'd idle idle minds in it devil's playground so um i i love working i love being in the motor like before i come here i'm doing all my business calls in the morning making sure they're ready to do what they need to do come here do this jump back in the motorway i've got to drive about half hour get across to south oberton to make sure they've done what they've done this morning if they haven't why yeah go and do some football content this afternoon go home jobs are good have dinner with the family if i could be home half six every day i'm happy yeah lovely because that's what what's your relationship like with your good mate anti joshua i spoke to him in a little while yeah um not not not for no reason just life yeah He's got stuff going on.

2:02:19I've got stuff going on. I'll just drop him a line, just make sure he's all right. I'm just a different person. I'm a bit old school. I don't need to message you for you to message back. I just messaged Stephen Graham the other day. He obviously just won loads of Emmys. A bit of a name drop there. I don't know why I said that, but the point is, I messaged him the other day and I was like, all right, mate, congratulations. Fucking proud of you. Wish you all the best. No need to respond. lovely he does respond which is great but I'm just more of those one of the people let's say the next six months you're smashing it mate just watch that podcast fair play I don't need you to come back and go I heard you on TalkSport I don't give a fuck yeah I don't need that I just want to say watching this stuff fair play and that's just kind of who I am so I'll text the big man and be like heard you got injured hope you're doing alright if you want to chat yeah lovely he's probably got 60, 70 other people he can talk to at a better place than me.

2:03:19Do you think AJ will end up fighting Tyson Fury? I think it has to. It's got to, hasn't it? It has to. I think for both of their legacies it has to. But we are running at that point now the Manny Pacquiao Mayweather like we're all going to watch it but we're all going to think what if. If it's a couple of years. The Calbrook Amir Khan we're all going to watch it but what if. But look it's a really weird one especially when they're in that sport. Like my sport you play football you're relatively okay. These boys get bashed up for a living even to practice. Do you know what I mean? So I would expect and hope that they can have that big match that they deserve for both of their careers, for their legacies.

2:04:03Do you think they both want it? Yeah. But I think the ego of who's the A-side, who gets the most... I think that's the... I think they get over that. If Conor Benn and Chris Eubank Jr. can get over that, surely... Different spaces. No, different spaces, but I'm saying surely they can get over who's ring walk first, who's the da-da-da. Yeah, I don't think it's that. I genuinely believe it's the numbers that they're both. Because I reckon maybe, again, I don't know this to be fair. 100 mil each. But let's say 100 mil each, they get it done. But I reckon that was there two years ago. Yeah. Do you reckon there's 100 mil each now?

2:04:39Yeah. You still think there is? Yeah. Because the pay-per-view, it don't matter if people are like you and I going, oh God. No, we're still going to watch it. I'm going to watch it. All my mates are going to watch it. Everyone I know is going to watch that fight on a pay-per-view at 30 quid times by. I'd imagine it's going to do way more than a mil and a half, two mil pay-per-views, three mil. Who knows? I don't know the final numbers on that. Plus the Wembley, plus the Saudi, plus the rematch. But I just think he's that appetite for it there now. From them or from us? No, just from whoever's putting the dough down is the question.

2:05:13Turkey would put the money down, wouldn't they? Yeah, but if you look at what he's doing now, you just had Canelo Crawford. He's probably going, and I don't mean it's disrespectfully to either AJ or Tyson Fury, but is he thinking, I can get the next crop now and I don't have to spend as much? I know money to them is like a biscuit to us, but I don't know. I hope it happens for their ways in life. Obviously, I just did SAS with Conor and me and Conor have obviously built a relationship up after that. So I'm excited to see how that rematch plays out. He's determined. I can't wait to see. I'd love to see Conor come and do Chris Eubank Jr.

2:05:51Would you? I would love to. I'd love to see Conor. I would have sent him a message. I'd love to get him on here with you boys. I think he'll have a real good chat. I think he'll have a proper good chat. Proper good chat. Yeah, 100%. Proper bloke. Yeah, proper fella. Where's he live in Mallorca? No, he's in Essex Way now. It was Essex City. I'd have to get Conor on if you could tell you that. I'll try and teach you. Yeah, mate. I'll be a good conversation. Yeah, 100%. Before we finish up here, SAS Who Dares Wins. Mustard. Did you probably enjoy that? Yeah, hated every second of it, but I loved it.

2:06:20It was filmed a little bit earlier, so I think we can say it now. It was filmed like a year ago, so it's hard watching it now because you're kind of going, oh, I don't really remember it all, if you know what I mean, but the bits that I remember and the DS's were great. Mate, I'll say this now. You know, after these kids that are fucking about and then got no, like, route of where they want to get out because they're bored or whatever, send them to them boys. Yeah. Send them to them boys for six months. They'll come back proper blokes. And do you know what I mean? They'll be lively and they'll be ready to go.

2:06:57They sort out the boys from the men very quickly. Get in your head within 24, 48 hours. strip you down to bare bones and then build you up. No, mate, for me it was lovely. That was the spark for the no drinking. Always something I've been thinking about doing and they have a big saying like walk with purpose and I love that. I love that. If you're going to have a shit, walk with purpose and be the best person at taking a shit. That's what they said to us. Foxy's a good bloke, isn't he? He's been on it. All of them, Foxy, Foxy, Billy's, Ledge, Chris. They're all good, Rudy. They're all good, good.

2:07:31again I could just I thrive in those environments of like there's no bs there's no it's just get the job done and doesn't matter if you struggle even you look at the let's go to I won't go through everyone it's too long but let's look at the last five six people all on different journeys completely different backgrounds but one thing you notice throughout the whole show was they were game yeah they were honest and they never quit so everyone now has a respect for them and I just think that's like a bit of a life lesson like yeah you ain't gotta be the best everything but just keep going turn up on time try your best and everyone will respect you for it yeah and you'll be and you'll be a few steps ahead won't you yeah the way you are so mate for me if i don't know if you ever get the opportunity to go on there but if you do mate fucking go on you're looking i've been invited on a few things but i've always done i don't know i don't know do you think it should be the sas one yeah okay especially for because it's not the physical is the easy part it's the mental side and how tough you can switch your mind off and just crack on yeah and behind like when the cameras because the cameras always run but obviously it doesn't make the edits but they're still just nibbling in your ear and getting on jubbing and pushing you and do you reckon that made you a better man 100 % nice 100 % my wife will tell you that 100 % because I came out of that and got married days after did you got married with a black eye after kind of chid me but yeah it's It's just good for where I'm at, good for business, good for like, okay.

2:09:02I've never really been taught the, oh, I forget the name of it, but you know that it's like essential, unimportant. You really break it into cause of what's important and relevant. And that with the walk with purpose is now how I live my life. So I look at the week and go, right, what do I need to get done? Well, I said to Dutch, I'll be here. So man of my word, I'll be here. I'm on time. I'm on time. And early. Yeah, of course. Yeah, mate. But do you know, like that, a year ago, maybe, I would have been here. Might turn up at 10 o 'clock. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, mate, I'm running a bit late. Or do you know what?

2:09:34Can we do it tomorrow? There's nothing worse than that. It's the worst. There's nothing worse when you've got a mate who's like, oh, mate, I'm half an hour, 40 minutes late. Can we move it? I can't stand it. But I can't stand being late for work. I'm never late for work. Oh, good. But I'm always late for a social gathering. Yeah. Okay. That's changed. Do you know what I mean? Well, it's a good thing, right? Yeah, but let's say we've got a family meal at 7. You know I'm not going to get there before 20 past. But if I've got to be there for work, I'll be there at like quarter two. Yeah, perfect.

2:10:02Do you know what I mean? I think I've heard you about half hour before. Yeah, I'm here. I'm lost. Oh, yeah. I want to quickly go back to West Ham. Dream come true. Yeah. Ain't going to happen. It might happen. Big money, Saudi money comes in. We end up doing the deal, knocking that stadium down, building a purpose-built stadium. That tight, round the pitch, great acoustics, get the fans back on side, get money pumped into it, buy the players we need. That would be dream come true. That's what Tottenham did. They spent£1.2 billion. We get asked for£2 million a year, cheapest rent going. I get all of that, but it's painful.

2:10:42It's not the same. My problem with West Ham... The atmosphere. We grew up with atmosphere here and you could look on the pitch as a fan and go he he they represent you had Nobes you had Declan Rice you had Kevin Nolan you look now and you've got one who's inherited who's Jared Bowen the rest it's I look around and go who's the leader Jared Bowen's the leader who else you look around you need three or five and I just worry because Jared obviously is getting on a little bit as well who over the next five to ten years is that? You've got a few young lads who are coming through and doing well, but it's like, who's the...

2:11:24And that's where I always think a fan base will get disconnected when they can't look on the pitch and see a representation. What were we chatting before? We're going, we're four games in. All West Ham fans thinking, relegation? Nah, you'll be all right. No, no, no. I'm saying this chat is going on. Yeah, yeah. This chat is going on. And as the game's gone, we're four games in, for Christ's sake. We've got 34 games to go. You can't be talking like that. but fans are getting a bit agitated. You know, like, what's the next move, brother? Well, I said at the start of the season, I got hammered by West Ham fans last year because I said, Lopatage ain't going to work.

2:11:54Oh, Troy, you're negative. You got to say, mate, you look at his body of work. Yeah, I was the same. You know, David Moyes, he's 2.0 when you're talking about attacking. David Moyes was fantastic, by the way. Moyes is ledge. I backed him every minute of every time. And he left at the right time. Of course. Because imagine if he jumped in the next season, four games in, like, get rid of Moyes. He had the blame. He's walked out on a high, got us to Europe three times, got us a trophy, ticks every box. But what he did do as well, you know what you're getting. So when he goes in at Everton, no one went, oh, Everton, you're going to get a solid representation of David Moyes on the pitch.

2:12:29We've lost the tag. Remember, we're getting rid of David Moyes because we're changing style, but he bought somebody and he does the same thing. So that was never going to work. So I got hammered at the start for that until people go, oh, actually, yeah, you were right. Graham Potter, again, from Birmingham. so I always want him to do well for that, just his from home. I just look at him and go, how do you motivate everyone? I've never really met him. He might be a nice guy, might have great tactical awareness, but in the dressing room, in the trenches, 0-0 against Spurs, we've had a tough first half, but it's 0-0, we're in it.

2:13:03What's that thing you're saying that we go, fuck, yeah, they're getting it? I just don't get that vibe. So who is that? Jose Mourinho? Would he come and fire the club up? Or do you think that might be like a one-season, two-season one day? Not anymore. I think Jose is not the Jose before. I love Jose Mourinho, but I think he's a legend. I reckon he suits West Ham in a weird way. I reckon he suits West Ham because we need that. Somebody to take all the ownership. And he'll take all the pressure off the board. The problem is... He'll clash with the board. Yeah, the problem is he'll clash with them behind.

2:13:35But he'll take all the pressure off because everyone will be talking about him, not talking about them. but what he will want and I don't think West Ham have got this is a point of going right we need eight players and I want this type of player and I'm not budging on this and I think that's where it wouldn't really work because I can't tell you this is going to set you off and I don't mean to but West Ham always had this the West Ham way someone that's not from London what the fuck is the West Ham way because I can't tell you what it is well it's batches of players the original you know Jeff Hurst and Martin Peters and Bobby Moore that was in the 60s so that would be a youth team yeah youth team academy coming through then you had your Joey Coles your Rio Ferdinand your Frankie Lampard your Carricks Jermaine Defoe all coming through again with Harry you know we had all these amazing times and we're all like craving for something like a Harry coming back and that person so it'd be more than like a personality I'm saying Harry would come back he wouldn't but that kind of yeah a personality type then from a manager that embodies who West Ham are.

2:14:39What the fans are. And then a crop of young players that you can go, there's the identity. Because generally, when I ask that question, I don't know what it is. It's not me being smart. I just don't know what the West Ham way is. But do you know what I also find? And nothing against foreign players. When you're bringing in too many foreign players, it's like a number of foreign players. We need an English core. We need an English core. That's what I like, what Eddie Howe does. He's got an English core. You know when you see it comes up on Sky TV and the players are there and you see the different flags?

2:15:05Yeah. All I'm looking for is how many English just out of interest how many English slags in each team the year we got relegated we did five years in the Premier the year we got relegated was our most talented team what year did you get relegated because you went and then down didn't you yeah COVID 20 and then we come straight back up in 21 and went back down in 22 but I left in 22 but we had we always had foreign players always had it with the model that we had but we always had a core English group and the year we got promoted we went away from that and that's where a lot of my time, Ben Foster's time, Tom Cleverley's time was dealing with the French group, dealing with the Spanish group just trying to pull it all, always trying to pull it all Was it hard?

2:15:52Yeah, absolutely because again, these guys are talented say it on record, these guys are better than me, but when you're in my building you're going to dig in so I don't care how talented you are and if you can put one in top quarter that's great we've got West Ham on Saturday fucking gonna have to dig in need eight of us they're gonna fucking fight and the other two or three you go and win the game but what we went from from being that was maybe eight fancy players to three so when it was on fucking oh yeah we were good but when you gotta dig deep so that's my point who would West Ham bring in now in the Premier League that go English player hard as nails gonna smash people with bits and take control as a leader.

2:16:34We need some more leaders plotted in the squad. I don't have that answer straight up front for you now, I've been 100 % honest. But what it is, and I always worry about this, when you buy lads who have been relegated, so you get used to losing. So your goalkeeper, you just bought from Leicester, he's used to letting goals in. And he's letting nothing in. Again, but not his fault, but it happens that much that you just go, it's kind of what happens. Just when they spent another 30-odd million on the midfielder from Southampton, just got relegated. So losing games to him becomes normal. So now when you look through the spine of your West Ham team...

2:17:13The mentality is... We're used to losing games. So I think you have to start going and taking a risk. If it was me, I would have signed Victor Lindelof from Man United. I don't think he's great, but he's been at Man United. He knows what it's like to play for a big club. He's better than what you've got. Do you know what I mean? Start looking at those aspects. But Man United ain't been winning. No, but being at Man United and being at West Ham is completely different, hasn't it? So he's used to wearing a big shirt, used to coming under expectant. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wearing a big shirt is with West Ham as well, right?

2:17:44Sure. Large. This is large. There's the XL. No, but you get my point. It's like Trent Alexander-Arnold going to Real Madrid, right? Liverpool's a massive club, so is Real Madrid. But when he's gone over there, if you look at his first five, six interviews, it's like, hold on, this is the big boy league. and he's been at Liverpool. That's not a disrespect to Liverpool. It's not a disrespect to West Ham, but globally, Man United are here, they're everywhere and their expectation is to win. If you don't win, you're on every back page. If you make a mistake, you're on every media outlet. Do you know what I mean?

2:18:16If you make a mistake for West Ham, it depends who they play. Do you get my point? That's not being disrespectful. No, no, no. But even coming out with Tottenham, the other day, when we came out the second half, we got spanked, we're like, where's the fight? Where's the fight? Who's getting aggy? The fans can't even get aggy because we're about three miles away from the pitch. Do you know what I mean? The sad part about it is that after the second goal goes in, it's like, fuck it, let's go get the train then. Yeah, but I think this is not just... This is a build-up frustration for fans. Yeah, it is.

2:18:45Losing, banging him, losing, putting in five goals against us, three goals against us. It's just another build-up. I go, here we go again. So the frustration is building, but when the frustration is building, you've got to communicate with your owner of your club and the owner's got to communicate with you. You know? Absolutely. Troy, I've properly enjoyed this. Thank you very much. Yeah, mate. I've done 300-odd episodes, 130 episodes. I've properly, properly enjoyed this one. Thank you very much. Love your honesty. Always. Thank you for your time. You've got mine. Nice one, Troy. Take it easy, mate.

2:19:11Cheers. Hi, guys. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Can you do us a favour and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show? Cheers, guys.