#333. Crystal Palace's Top Boy: Streets, Scars and Survival - Carl Thomas

0:00If you're a football hooligan, you can't be part-time. You're going to be ready to get hurt, lose your life, or something. And we took liberties because I wasn't into like, we have a gink off at the bar, I want to get to know you. F*** that. I'm coming to war.

0:12Carl Thomas: How did you end up becoming a Crystal Palace football hooligan? When Portsmouth won the league, they came down to Palace and they bought about 12 ,000. But then, because we had a little firm, we took them on. It just dropped on a buzz what I had. I thought, ah, I love this. The 80s, yeah, that's where it was at. That's when it was at the worst. I want to part-time with a weekend. I've done it for real. Charting's coming down. It's a recipe for disaster, isn't it? Train doors open. I reckon I would have killed somebody. I was that far gone. 18 of us went sentenced. Half of the dirty 30. And that needed to happen to me because I was out of control.

0:45Way, way out of control. Suffering from mental health and living the life I've done. Just living the facade. It catches up at you sometimes. Lapsing with doing drugs all the time for a long time. Not being up front. lying to loved ones and um sorry take your time mate take your time

1:12Carl Thomas: carl welcome to the show mate thanks for having me dodge yeah mate very much looking forward to a lot of people have spoke very highly of you so i'm looking forward to this one well let's see how it goes and like thanks for the compliment yeah my pleasure mate let's roll all the way back how do you end up becoming a Crystal Palace football hooligan. It's quite easy, really. I was born in the area, and one particular time stands out in my mind. I think I was 13, and Middlesbrough were playing. And, you know, from the state where I sort of lived around, went through the alley, and it was after the game.

1:53and I remember standing at the bottom just witnessing fans coming out and all of a sudden I saw a huge charge you know men with long hair flares just running at a surge of people and to my knowledge now you know they're chasing what was Crystal Palace supporters and they just look formidable like grizzly bears like white grizzly bears it just looked awesome and I just felt myself thinking fuck you don't mind if I say that I think I like that I like that and as the years well passed from school secondary school there was a lot of people supported Hadis and we wasn't quite known as a firm then but I'll get to that in a minute and got integrated quite quick and the thing the first proper incident I had was when Portsmouth won the league and they came down to Palace and they bought about 12 ,000 long or behold I learned that quickly about the 6-5-7 crew but then because we had a little firm we took them on I had no idea who the 6-5-7 crew were I had no idea how good Portsmouth were but to get involved and have a scrap with them all day and you know I will say to this day they can probably deny it or what we won the little skirmishes we had we were taking them on we were beating the fuck out of them and I it was just it just was a buzz what I had I thought oh I love this I just love the way that you don't know if you're going to get knocked out going to get up or if you're going to do someone it was just that feeling but I always who had that feeling in me.

3:51There was always that in me. What was the Palace Crew called? Well, there were several crews. It's a bit like West Ham, really. Several splinter crews. So there was South Croydon. There was a Nifty Fifty. There was a Wilton Arms. And there was my personal crew called the Dirty Thirty. So you had them sort of like four or five firms, which got on some didn't but I believe the smaller the better and you're going to probably ask me why and to my record my knowledge my knowledge sorry the 80s yeah that's where it was at that's when it was at the worst and then Paddy's we weren't really known we used to get taken the piss out of but when I think about it and I always thought about it and I saw it even though he wasn't active were along with the top firms.

4:50300 to 300. That ain't a fight. That's a skirmish. When you get down to the nitty gritty and we took the vibe, the legion of Stoke, the naughty 40, made it smaller. Everybody knows each other. You know the man to the left. You know the man to the right. You're all the same. You know that you ain't running unless everybody runs. You're standing in your ground. And you have a proper good tear up, you don't know what's going to happen. You're standing toe to toe. You're running or you're staying. There ain't no, oh, we had, we walked 300 down. The Air 50 ain't getting involved. Do you know what I mean?

5:30Because it's not wide enough. It's not like you're a technical soldier and you've got the right flank, you've got the left flank, you've got the middle and you're moving like this. You're just going for a tear up and and it's a lot of shouting and abusing. But when you've got 10 onto 10, 20 onto 20, 30 onto 34, even up to 50, you know there's something going to go down.

5:54Carl Thomas: Was there a firm that you were scared of at the time? Oh, well, you're ICF, aren't you? No, yeah, I mean, formidable. Are we in the same league as them? No. But I will get to that later. Millwall, of course. my favourites are the 657 crew yeah the front liners Middlesbrough tough firms up there isn't it the Zulus 100 % I can go on and on tilt their head you have to mention them and then this goes on but you're talking about my favourite because you said the Zulus 657 crew front liners ICM obviously I don't don't rate me I think they're overrated I mean people come on all sides of me that ain't notice of me and said who the fuck is Palace striping Nigel's yeah that's right we were striping Nigel's I love that word because you come to us and when we made our 30 day 30 we didn't pay no rules and at that time when we go into it we I can say we went up against a lot of firms and we took liberties because I wasn't into like we have a drink after the bar.

7:12I want to get to know you. Fuck that. I'm coming to war. What am I having a drink with you? This ain't no party meant to procedure. This ain't no like, what's that word they say when they say show no quarter. That's how I went into this because football foggery ain't no joke. You could lose your life. It's like people in the boxing ring. You could get hurt and get scarred. I've had my teeth knocked out. so I know so I wasn't in the mood to be having a drink with somebody I wasn't in the mood to fuck about and have a oh yeah this right let's talk about fuck that if I'm going down you're coming to what's happening to you I'm coming to do damage and anything goes and if you want to moan about it afterwards fuck you what are you looking for I want to part time I was in it for real it meant something to me and our little firm if you want to call it or whatever yeah we diced with everybody some cunts was sorry about my language will say, nah, Paris.

8:14Because I don't want to admit it. But we know. And I think the only firm that put their hands up is that Paris or the baby squad, Leicester. Because we went down there and we went for a tear up. We weren't playing. We called them. We're coming. They didn't even think we were coming. And when we came, we took liberties. And there's been several, but that's the main one.

8:41Carl Thomas: Give me an example of you going up there, a day in the life of Carl and your boys up there, taking liberties on an away day.

8:51I think one that stands up in my mind was Stockport. And it was the last day, we could have gone down.

9:04And we said, yeah. And there was a lot of, a bit white-wingish. and we got like several good blacks or hooligans like me and we actually made it apparent that yeah we wanted that so we called it on so all the words you were hearing it inspired us it was the last game of the season that we needed to win or we would have gone down so it was called on and I think my day was planned I was off my head I was solicitating with everything. I was a heroine at a time. Heroin?

9:42Carl Thomas: Yeah. Was it? Yeah. I was taking coke like it was going out of fashion. I had lost my mind. This is like the end days of my time with the Dirty 30. And it was organised, you know, we're getting hyped, you know, soliciting drugs. I never was much a drinker because, you know, I wanted to know that. Yeah, yeah. I'm hyped. Doing it here to bring it down. so you leveled up so we went up there our van our crew and I called it on I was so off my head I even went in there but standing on the side it wasn't like the main side on the side you know people were looking and like we were formidable they could see we had a firm and you know they said look you're going to meet us round the back I said look I don't want to talk about it we're going to have it here and don't have it here.

10:38I was that off my head. I didn't actually care. I didn't want to go in and cheer up inside the ground, but I was just ready afterwards. I said, look, there's no point talking about it now. None of the shouting. When you're serious, we're going to be over there. And lo and behold, I don't know how I got this knife in, because it wasn't really policed properly. Security wasn't that great. So I got this nice little knife there. So after the game, we're walking towards, we're getting escorted towards the coaches. And then there was one particular guy, I cannot remember his name. He was like EDF whenever he can march with all these crew.

11:22And I just found myself, because I was out my fucking nut. And I just took out his knife. And my mate, one of my best mates who wrote the book, Pete Nice, I was like, what the fuck? I'm waving it around like this. There's everything else. police could actually see me to this day I don't know how I didn't get arrested and I remember I swayed and I just missed his face just by the inches and I was waving it and all of a sudden like my mates just pushed me away got me the knife and everything else and I reckon I would have killed somebody I was that far gone and it was like fucking hell flux man And what's going on?

12:09And it was an incident that still stays with me to this day, thinking, where's this going? Do you know what I mean? It was getting that serious. I mean, we just want to have a tear up. And I'm taking, like, I want to take someone's life. And I could have done. It could have hit any juggler or any archery. And it kind of hit me then. But I knew that I was way out of control. Way, way out of control.

12:36Carl Thomas: Did your pals around you go, he's game, but he's way too game, and we're going to end up getting caught up in what he's up to? Do you know what? That's the most funny. I've got a pal, I won't know his name, his name by Reg. And he was like, it's funny because, yet again, you couldn't get two different people, but we came very close, and we've done a lot of things. And I mean a lot of things. and he was he had his political views but when we got together we left that out of it but this guy you know I know I'm out of control I met people out of control I just couldn't be with him he's just too out of control he was more out of control oh yeah until the firm said we can't have him he's too out of control I mean he was like we had we was at Neiston same thing baby squad it was unlike the playoffs so it kicked off he's there serving up the train driver the firm's looking at us going we're going Rodney at the time even though they're saying Rodney we can't have this you know we like a lot fun and games but he's just out of control he's just looking to take some of life but with me and how we were outside football you needed something like that and me went through a lot but football even though we played by no rules when we made our dirty 30 he was too outside that dirty 30 does that mean Dodge he was too like nah you're too you're going to get us all 13, 14 years and that's coming from you or is that coming from the lads that's coming from the lads I mean I'm trying I tried to vouch for him they're coming through me saying nah nah they're coming through you have a word with him yeah even though they're not they're not scared of it yeah yeah yeah but they just said there's level words there's levels I mean we're taking it to a level but there's there's madness I mean you're serving like a train driver yeah so what's that about we've not even got in there yet yeah what age group were you bang at it okay I started at 18 okay until 40 so I got put inside for jail you were at it for all that time in and out okay in and out um I thought the more serious in the early 90s okay that's where Palace as a firm we started to make noise but you have this stigma especially from the bigger clubs and then you know what I'm not going to diss anybody I'm not going to diss anybody it pissed me off because you know alright you're good in the 80s alright you're good in the 70s but what the hell were you doing in the 90s and when you're doing nah nah I'm not having it I wasn't having it I wasn't having it because I came against you you guys and you brought fuck all the expression to me expression to me I don't care whether we were Tottenham or the Urds or or or Millwall especially with the London lot because we turned out but some of them would never admit it because the stripy Nigel Yeah, it did happen.

16:00It happened. And if you want to call me a lot, I'm here two weekends on your podcast. We had it with you. And I guess when we made the 30-30, we knew what we're going to do. We knew that this is it. We're going to make our mark. And surely we made our mark. Because we took it to our rules. Like we said, we don't want to know. We don't speak about you. we don't want to have a drink with you we just want to do our business and if you're coming down you're going to know you're going to know and whether you're going to put up your hands or not that's up to you but I know I mean they I remember I remember my mate called Pete Nice with the book say that again your mate what?

16:44Pete Nice Pete Nice who wrote Dirty the book okay and he worked for Big Steadicom and he used a lot of meals for us and then he was just in the White Burberry and I had a like thing I used to keep carrying two knives they called me Zorro I remember they were in they were playing them at Seller's Park and they're like I'm up there just giving it giving it a large I'm off one I'm on one I think I'm invincible they went to work and they went out and it was this black geezer whoever I find they were going to sort him out and Peter's going to say that's my mate he goes the middle of the boys like got your number and that sort of thing so what let them come let him come because it was personal to me i would have took it personally as well i i was ready to take it there because it was my buzz it was how i got off no i wasn't hard i'm not saying that i'm not a trained boxer i don't do

17:47Carl Thomas: no martial arts but i'll take it there you can have a tear up and it's over but it's i can have a tear up what it is I'm like grid of warfare you know the grid of warfare that's me I'll wait behind the bush and I'll be that fucking coward because I take it that serious I'll serve you up because that's how I believed I'm thinking this is football this ain't fun in a game this is football if you're a football hood and you can't be part time you're going to be ready to get hurt lose your life or something because that's what my beliefs were that's how deranged and strange I was I believed that you know I'm seeing people getting striped I'm seeing people getting stabbed the head's getting kicked and I'm thinking why am I not paying by the rules for this is like like I said show no quarter like the king show no quarter whatever goes goes so if you're ready you're ready you want to moan about it then cry to your mum and that was it I would took it we took it that serious and for about six seven years we made noise if we didn't get when we got raided and got nicked for the most stupidest I can't tell you how stupid this was we were playing Charlton I hate fucking Charlton we got three major derbies we got obviously Brighton we got Millwall which is not so big but it's bad enough but my man wins Charlton and Charlton recognised Paddy's Paddy's recognised I think they're the muggiest overrated firm and I'm saying it any Charlton supporter listening to it yeah I'm Carl Rodney Thomas you're a muggy firm and I so we playing them so we made an arrangement to meet up and I remember I came back from my gig I was tired got a phone call get up get up get up we got it we got it fucking hell man I'm tired get up there we're gonna liven you up so I get down there as it goes so it's already there I get there the red the big lines there it's the proper it's the proper 10-10

20:06yeah here we go back sheen trying can't wait get the phone call and we get we're in signum so we said so we get the bus up so we go we should have done went to the train station I'm I'm lively now. I'm loud. I'm being what I'm not. I'm loud, which I'm not. I'm kind of like going under the radar. So the train goes past. It's full of Chanton. And they're singing, giving it all the hours. We're there, trying to meet the May firm. Chanton's coming down. It's a relatively disaster, isn't it? The train doors open. They shut up. We steamed in. They weren't there, Firm. It wasn't nothing. It was the most stupidest thing we could have got caught out about.

20:54And, yeah, we got 18 of us went sentenced. Half of the dirty 30. And it was for, I needed that though. That needed to happen to me because I was out of control. My addiction was out of control. Everything was out of control. My life was out of control. I was living a triple life so in a way what we got caught for I needed to go and do that prison sentence

21:25Carl Thomas: how long did you get got four years for what a violent disorder so that one incident or was this a build up they've clocked oh god they wanted us for they were on us I mean when we go out when we went out to home games you're talking about 20 police watching us we just Kyle Thomas is there blah blah and they'll follow us everywhere and even away days it was they all just had a dossier ready for us yeah and they set us up because they were allowed to that in mitigation how formidable we was so when they're hearing that the jury's hearing that because i didn't went to i went not guilty they're hearing that yeah a lot of them went guilty but i thought i was off my head i thought i can get away so i don't know why I was thinking that.

22:12I was that far gone, I thought I can beat the case. So you got a four

22:18Carl Thomas: on a not guilty. What did they get on a guilty? Oh, some of them got two.

22:26Between two and eight. Because some of the incidents were quite bad. So someone got an eight? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a double sentence from a Portsmouth game. They carried it, carried it over. so he was doing one well he got four for one four for another so he was eight yeah okay

22:46Carl Thomas: how naughty was Brighton or how naughty is Brighton and Palace today versus it was when you were peaking in the 90s and early noughties

22:59I wouldn't say football I wouldn't know now but there's less police I see now so any derby there's going to be screaming skirmishes I don't think it's going to be bad. But at its heyday, Brighton and Palace, it was as bad as Millwall West Ham. Aston Villa, Birmingham. Excuse me, Newcastle, Sunderland. It was on them paths. Because we're not recognised as a great elite echelon firm, but it was bad. It was a build-up. It's hatred. It's natural hatred. it's everything what football firms are about. Do I rate them? Nah. Yeah.

23:48Carl Thomas: Nah. Chon, yeah, but still don't rate them, nah. They'll probably say the same thing, but we know. We know. You know, when you come to like Croydon and so, if we don't get you, the henchmen get you. You get picked off around our area. you get picked off doesn't really matter who you are if we don't get you and you stare around you think of somebody it'd be out of football it'd be like what money what we can get here pickpocket thing rob you because a lot of gangs where we're from they come out at night do you know what I mean why is it such a rivalry between Brighton and Palace because you look at West Ham Millwall you look at Newcastle Sunderland you look at all they're all close to each other why is there such a rivalry between that and the distance it is

24:44I think because where Corridan is situated it's alongside the M23 so technically it's only 15 minutes so it's the closest ground from Brighton to Palace from Brighton End and it started off if I go from my history through Alan Mallory and Terry Renables and something happened. Something was said. And there was a little tickle there, but it ignited it in such a way in the 70s and it just took off from there. So it's not a derby. It can be, in a way, it's a rivalry. And it's intense. I mean, even now, the helicopters will come out. They won't let Brighton through. They would have to wait in the ground.

25:33It is that bad. it's an intense big arrive even now but back in the day oh god it was like through Thursday to Saturday having it skirmishes clubs that's where it was mostly through the clubs on a Friday night and a Saturday night oh Christ it's oh been CS gas knocked out jumped set up everything and And it's what people don't hear about. There was so much going on. It just took over my life. It was like a weekly thing. And plus, I got to know the Brighton boys down there. And we did come friends, even though I didn't want to. That's because we had to earn money. I mean, we took my own personal firm to make money down there.

26:25I met my ex-wife down there. I lived down there. so I was surrounded by all this all the time so I did meet some good people who supported Brighton but like I said it wasn't my choice of a dar because I got to know them my choice was always charting but even though I had a giggle with Brighton we all had a giggle but it was a rival at the top as with all the elite firms

26:57Carl Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the feeling like knowing you're making a proper name for yourself and the other big elite firms are looking at you lot going, these lot are probably mad as well?

27:09On the personal level, I don't think we got the respect we deserved. Like I said, it was made a joke. I think it got more of a joke when Cass made that film, and he said Paddis, and you think, Kiddies firm. Maybe it was back in the 70s and 80s. Maybe what I saw, because I saw the front liners, what they did to Pallis. But the area got formidable. It got tougher. It got more multicultural. More people joined in. More people rubbed their hands. I got more clued up.

27:49And it was... Being like the name, what they call it, Stripey Nigel. I welcome that name. Stripey Nigels singers because they're jealous why was they called

28:00Carl Thomas: Stripey Nigel oh because I don't know Stripey Nigels and we wasn't formidable back in the day you know just knowing that Chasing Shadows Palace we wasn't known as a firm we had we had the ability but I guess a lot of people from Surrey coming in from the suburbs they were like middle class but when you're in Croydon and you get to the gnitty gritty yeah yeah accordance no is well chocolate city for a reason yeah it's gangs after gangs of the gangs and that it's a land of grime just proper gangs there now that's why I said right now if they hate if the if the altars don't catch you and now she's a film with now because you're getting people from Italy getting people from

28:49with any ultras in it even from Eastern your Eastern Eastern European side it's a proper they are proper and if they don't catch you the moonwriters will catch you because they know that they can make money from the people who are like drunk drunk and take a little bit so it's formidable now the area is very very tough areas of doing now but back in the day it wasn't like that i guess when we made it and people started to integrate more that the more right wing finish came off it wasn't so popular much you got motor culture quite quick Like, so it was easy to make a firm and make a name for ourselves.

29:28And that's why the late, early, the noughties, we became formidable. Would people admit it? Some would hold their hands like, big up the baby squad. Some of the Zoolies, big them up. But some of these arsehole firms, nah, nah, nah. But we don't care. I've written the book. I put it there and write it. If you want to discredit it, go ahead. You know it happened. I know it happened. And it's not about what we won. If we got a good beating. And we came across, when we got out of our prime, I think the only firm that took us out of our prime were who we based ourselves on. And the naughty thought he would have naughty thought he would.

30:12Right. They took up. We thought we were just ready. You know when you think you get out of your prime, you think, yeah, we're good. You can take it. We came across proper lads. and Middlesbrough. Oh, God. Do you know when you say, I'm not scared. I'm not scared to die. I'm not scared. And I'm actually not here to die. I've never really been really that scared. I'm going up to Middlesbrough. I kid you not, Dodge. It's an eye-opener. I have never seen so many lads in a firm... You know, you get... Oh, God, EB. Yeah. Fuck me. I wouldn't mind going against him. oh yeah shit it's that one over there yeah yeah they all look like that yeah and when they're coming at you you're freaking yeah you can make the line but I don't think this line's gonna hold yeah yeah retreat retreat every man for himself that's what it was like every man for himself and I can't be inconspicuous well so I can't so you know up there they're aiming for who you are what a big black lad coming at you six foot plus eight in stone so yeah so I got them oh mate I'm in the I think I was in the Bocca Flats breathe shit do you remember that thing Blair Witch and the snobs I was like please Jesus I will give up I'll give up being a hooligan please get me out of here because they would have strung me up burnt me yeah way listen I just know there's this the frothing from the mouth there's like orcs from Lord of the Rings it was like you know you're on the train getting back I'm thinking I think we've got to think about this one yeah I think we've got to think about this one because that was like boys to men you know that boys to men yeah we learned a big lesson and um we're coming stuck twice Papa stuck Papa come on stuck yeah to me I don't think there's no one better than the frontliners when they want to let people know they know and I take it to all the London firms I've never seen a firm like that the areas you can just tell because the areas are just fucked up anyway there's no money nobody gives a shit you have to fight for everything so you're talking about Middlesbrough sorry as an area it's going to Ayrson Park Even just getting to Ayrton Park is just like, it's like Millwall.

32:56Like, you know, you're going through. Yeah, they're like, I don't know what I'm saying. It's like going Derby in the old days down to. Baseball. Yeah, it's just like, what are we doing here? It doesn't feel, you feel like, any minute now. Any minute now. Just like, I'll tell you, I never have placed what's like that. Grimsby. What? Lincoln. Union squad. Just like that. just like any minute now and you're going to have your wits about you yes have you ever come to a

33:29Carl Thomas: point where you've been close to losing your life um in football just in life i took my life um back in the days when i was like it wasn't that long ago what am i talking about But now we're coming down to the mental health side and suffering from mental health and living the life I've done has been detrimental to how I am now. And depression, the area, relationships, lying, just living a facade, it catches up on you sometimes. And it caught up on me. and just throughout a relationship and I don't want to deal with it right. Couldn't really speak to anybody about it. It was like being with somebody you didn't know and the guilt hit me and being on medication and not taking it right.

34:32Something hit me after depression. I just knew I didn't want to be there no more. I think the first time I tried it, it was a cry out for, didn't want to do it, help I do it. The second time, a neighbour, I was out conscious, where I was living, I was born and I woke up in the ambulance, sorry, in the hospital. thought the last time I tried I was revived and to my good friends and I gotta give a shout um miss Amanda Parker she had my keys from Liverpool very good friend of mine and um she you because I spoke to her that night she recognized and she hinted I actually wanted to die and I got revived.

35:21So, yeah, it was an endearing situation and it's detrimental to where I am now, really. And with the mental health, even my family, some of my family members, they don't, I don't think a lot of people really realise how mental health is a serious thing even a week today I was going up to see my lady hello Sarah Louise and two people killed themselves in fatality three sorry all men got to hear the story back back in when I got back and one would suffer from mental health jumping on the track I remember a story about I was telling big up MC focused there. I was telling him about a guy called Gary Speed.

36:21He was a Welsh manager. I remember watching Football Focus. Oh sweet. And then four hours later you heard he hang himself. And he wasn't actually diagnosed and made a big deal about mental health then. And you think you're watching this guy, not to know that, and he hanged himself. To hang yourself it's a serious thing I mean I'm taking tablets

36:45Carl Thomas: is that how you is that how you the first second and third time it's all tablets yeah yeah because I'm on I'm on serious control just tablets I mean if you took one it'll knock you out what like now yeah I'm on now it's called quadriopine I'm gonna take 500 a day and what does that do it levels me out okay it stops my brain thinking fast it's because my brain's overloading and I suffer from personality disorder. I mean, I'm moving to personalities. So a lot of people, there's Rodney, who is a raving, lunatic, drug-taking cunt, don't give a shit. And then there's Carl. Who you're talking to now?

37:32Sounds better, doesn't it? Who's more reserved a little bit. I wouldn't say I'm assertive, I can be a little passive and quiet and there's MC Flux what MC Flux do you know go into character act like I'm an MC stand like an MC and be nice and just going out but the trouble is with me it's going in from one into a character and I don't know I'm doing it people who are close to me know and can see it like my partner and it has played a detrimental effect of people I get close to now and people I am close to because they find it hard to deal with me. You can't blame them if they don't really know but a lot of things got to do with the mental health side.

38:25I don't want to justify that because I'm not that guy. I want to own what it is. But if people don't understand, you need to understand mental health is a serious thing. Absolutely. so people will give time out because I may not be here tomorrow especially excuse me the way I think and I'm not helping myself because I'm not loving life at the moment I'm here doing this interview thank you for this my pleasure where I'm at now is not in a good place I think I've fallen back into these bad habits lapsing with doing drugs for a long time lying not being up front pointing on a facade lying to loved ones and um sorry take your time mate take your time

39:26yeah sorry it's you know you can lie you become compulsive but you ask are you being a pathological like that and I question myself with that I live in an area where I'm not happy living like the people and I deal with a lot of demons and I'm fighting myself I'm questioning myself falling out with good people good people people I love and respect because maybe they've got their own reason because they can see I'm doing myself damage so they're stepping away and those people I love, I'm saying it here I love you guys and I hope one day we can fix what I believe we've lost and to the people I'm around me I hope you can take your time to understand me again that I'm getting there I'm recognising and if you allow me the time I'll get there and I'll probably be that person formidable living or want to live a pro-social life because I do believe what goes around comes around and you make your own destiny or the destiny makes you or when you choose that's up to you and you've got to believe I lost all that just be yourself and if I don't take my tablets on time or do it properly or ask for that help.

41:07I mean, even the other day, I was in a bad place and I'm calling the Samaritans

41:14Carl Thomas: and it helped me. You called the Samaritans? Yes, sir. Can I just hold you on that one point? I've invested heavily in a mental health app called Jack on the end here. J-A-A-Q dot org. It's a mental health app for people with depression want to commit suicide, stressed, whatever it may be. And it's an unreal app where everything's explained to you in a video, where someone's been there and had that experience, and it's all video-led, so it's easy to understand for anyone. To anyone out there who's feeling like this, please go and check out jackjustaskaquestion.org. I don't invest in any businesses, and this is the first business, I always invest in my own businesses.

41:57Carl Thomas: This is the first business when I got approached, I was like, I'm in. I went big on this one and it's and I have a lot of people on here as you know 350 odd people now and it's helping hundreds of thousands of people out there who are listening to this because I've got a platform for it so anyone out there check out jack.org and yourself as well Carl and you know if I can personally say I salute you yeah I mean I was drawn to you anyway don't get me wrong I don't fancy you but I was drawn to you anyway and the way you carry yourself I can see you and you saying that That is, honestly, well done.

42:34There's something in you. Thank you for that. And we're going to talk afterwards. Yeah, mate. That's off there. I'm going to take a number and take it.

42:41Carl Thomas: Yeah, we're talking. I want to go back a bit where you, it really hit a raw nerve of you a minute ago. And I want to get to the bottom of it. How you're falling out with good people around you and why you're lying. Because you are an upfront fellow. As you sit here now, I'm speaking to Carbon, I'm speaking to Rodney, I'm speaking to MT Fluff, from speaking to Carl. Why are you falling out with people? Because I'm not being honest. And why are you not being honest? Because I'm scared a lot. It's the personalities, it's the facade, it's losing myself, it's being unhappy. And probably want to bring down people not knowing to my level of unhappiness.

43:22You know, you hear this word, a narcissist, or being narcissistic. would I say I'm a nasty no have I got have I done narcissistic traits of course I have I must have done I think when you when you are a popular person you got narcissistic traits I was a cheat I was a liar you know even though when I was in prison I had that guy Mr. William Barrett thank you for Channing's Woods who changed my life for a certain time you know I was all those things liar, cheat, fighter I didn't care and it's old tricks I had which I lost when I found myself and it sounds really strange you found yourself as I did whether it's called complacency whether it's called arrogance whether it's being selfish I lost all that and you know I'm making my own make believe world but I'm forgetting that people can see through you

44:26Carl Thomas: you think you're kidding someone you ain't kidding Pee all your mates right I'm saying I don't know all your mates your mates can read you like a book and if you're straight with them and forget the lies and be Carl and be you I'll lay you money the love will be there the love will be there don't push any of your mates away Carl yeah and I guess I've learned that the hard way I have a lot of associates I do But there's a difference We've all got associates The key to keeping associates You keep associates there You know who your tight lot are Yeah and I think I'm just about hanging on To my best mate Who I've never fallen out of What's his name?

45:08Carl Thomas: Pete Neist Who I've never fallen out of And why would you fall out? I haven't fallen out No but you said You could be close Yeah because I'm not being The guy he knows He's got a life as well And he's always had me in fact without him I wouldn't be here today that's a fact I love this guy to death the friends around us lot when we were crew it's not so good and I've got to take responsibility for that because they're probably feeling me as well but I'm not being me we're cool but we're not cool yeah you know there's particular two a particular big DJ I'm not going to mention the name because this is a private thing as big as they get and seen and we're not cool and these are people I love not friends I love I'm one of the biggest DJs on the DMV circuit and we've got something to swear at me I miss him like fuck and until that gets ironed out and I change my ways I become to say fuck it I need help I can't put this far side on no more I can't pretend I'm suffering from mental health in a big way.

46:23Fuck me, I just tried to took my life two years, two, three years ago. I'm suffering every day. I'm in a place where I hate. The only plus I got is a good family and I got a good loved one at the moment who's trying to believe in me. Even I'm putting her through a lot. And she has helped and advised me a lot. And this is only the other day. I got a keys to one left. I just look up to him. We haven't known each other long and his self-honesty and how he looks at things and how he looks at life, I just like being around him. I'm a personal fan of him as well. Put that on record, MC Focus. But it's people like that I want to be around.

47:11I know that I can get inspired. You probably say, why do you need people? Everybody needs somebody. We all need people.

47:19Carl Thomas: I want to go back a little bit here. If you could wave a magic wand for that drum and bass DJ, for you to create peace and become good friends again, what have you got to do to change that, build that relationship up again? I've got to make the move and find where he is and be, he's a formidable character, very upfront, doesn't take no shit, tells it the way it is. I've got to be assertive and not be scared and face the demons. and if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And speak about it. Really speak about it. Sit down because he's more than a mate to me. He's everything. Imagine how much peace you'll have in your mind if you made a phone call to him today that you left it and gone, Doys, I'm going to do it.

48:07Carl Thomas: I'm going to call him. I'm going to make peace in my mind. Yeah. It's going to... We're doing this now. I'm telling it. It's got to happen. It's on record now. It's on record. Yeah. And what about your best mate? How can you... it's good we speak but i want it to be how we are i want him when i make that phone call i don't want him to think do i want something yeah i want to talk i want to be part of going out with him because he's in a precarious situation where i'm not getting all certain fractions there but he's with me so he has to choose and it must be really hard really hard for him yeah Yeah, he loves you to bits.

48:49Carl Thomas: Yeah. Of course he does. And then you think, but he doesn't want no trouble because he's such a good geezer. But do you not think, then he's thinking, Carl, what Carl am I going to get? There we are. Yeah, okay. You said the word itself. Yeah, okay. Who am I going to get? I'm going to get Rodney. I'm going to get into flux. I'm going to get Carl. Who do you want to be? Carl. Just Carl. The person, when I was inside, I went in as Rodney, on hearing and everything, just fucked up. and I had this, I was in jail, getting moved about. How old were you when you went? 40. You were 40 when you got banged up in the lot?

49:27Carl Thomas: Yeah. Is that the only time you went to prison? No, I'd been in prison before then for intensively. How long did you get then? I got a touch. I'll tell you why before I get to do a touch. Yeah. I was probably on my echelons of working. I was signed with Moving Shadow big up Simon, Sean and Rob Playfoot and they were doing massive events that's Moving Shadow who are now over Shadow hired to Rebecca as well and they were the biggest thing biggest label D &B biggest raves we were doing they were doing raves in Leicester Square through the magic set out absolutely packed making big recordings door is phenomenal yeah so I'm with them and I'm with this guy called Rob Playford and I'm doing a lot of other things the radio one I'm on night I'm on the top of my game so I'm it my mitigation and my paperwork what the judge happened when he's handed that sentence in and I was lucky because the judge what wanted sentence me wasn't there so I had to search it judge so he written this paper thinking you are a good person you you made a mistake however and when I heard the however I'm going to give you three months for this three months for that because of possession and the intense supply of what?

50:56Coke ease that's all right I need a touch yeah and not three months I should have been looking at four but because of that time four years I should have looked at four yeah but it's all what I was doing I was just caught up in the moment and he gave me three months and he made it concurrent. So I done three months. I couldn't tell you this story. But I think it was all the people were coming in and saying, look, we need this guy, whatever, raise your one. It was such good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How old were you then? I was then, that's a good question, 1995, by the way. Three months, so 1995. 2025 now.

51:40I'm not a good man.

51:41Carl Thomas: as 27 yeah okay something like that yeah so um yeah okay would you go with that yeah so we go with 27 you've done your three months done when you come out were you still game of course you were because you were still a lunatic i learned nothing did you want to be known did you want to be known as a lunatic be careful of him because you don't know where you stand with him look I can speak about now how I am now I'll stay away from me because I got no kids my queen is no longer here that's my mum and what I'm going to say to you now she loved me I loved her that's all you've got to know she loved me and I loved her she's gone now I've got no children I'm in a fucked up place where I don't want to be I care I've got her a partner at the moment so I'm a dangerous guy I don't give a shit about my life and that's sad to say at the moment so I always offer somebody leave me alone I leave you alone and this is serious as cancer I'm going to say this now it ain't over twice it's over because I take it personally so I offer 6 or 6 or 25 years either or ever I don't care and that's a strange way how I'm living because I don't give a shit that's a dangerous human being yeah and I'm not hard or nothing but I will take it there because I don't care about myself and that's if I've got no love for myself who am I going to love for I mean I've got a family I've got good friends I've got a nice partner but I'm on this fantasy thing that just leave me alone because it's the way I'm thinking I'm not taking my tablets on time it's a spiral where I don't want to be I just want to be a nice It's a guy living a pro-social life, doing what I do, and people to love me and me love them.

53:38And me respect them, they respect me, whatever it comes with. Have you got anyone who's not on your firm

53:45Carl Thomas: or not on the boys or the lads or the girls? Have you got anyone you can go and speak to? Yeah, I was a mentor. I got my mentor called Gemma. She works in the probation service. and that's what I strived for after I got out of jail in 2010. I'd done five years volunteering because of my record of violence. I couldn't get the job I wanted to, so I had to prove myself through the volunteering sector, which I'd done. I loved it. And my mentor got a hold of me from user voice, which is like ex-offenders, works for ex-offenders. and taught me on, mentored me, went university. I didn't think I could ever go to university because I was fucking sorry about this.

54:37I hate swearing. I was just like dyslexic as hell. My wife taught me how to read and you know, I'm alright as MC. I'm alright. I'm alright. I'm alright. I can do my thing. But I'm a shit heart mentor. So when I got that and doing what I was doing, and that got taken away from me, but she came my vocal partner who I can go to and she was telling me straight. I think the hardest thing I ever heard from her was like, I can't do my job again because I'm not moving right. I'm not believing in my product. You can't sell something you don't believe in. So she can see straight through me. Like I said, you can't kill a kiddo.

55:27so yeah she was my go-between person still is now she told me straight I'm here for you but at the moment as a professional where you can't do this job so do with someone outside that circuit I can go to yeah I haven't used that or implicated it yet but it's on my bucket I want to say that because I want to laugh because I don't want to get teary out of yeah

55:53Carl Thomas: are you clean today no No, okay. What do you use today? Synthetic drugs. Like? Antiopioid, Xanax, Speed, and that's as far as it goes, yeah. And it's just to bring that levels down to correspond with the, it sounds like a justification of these, people listen ain't justifying this don't do this it helps bring the levels down like where i'm so spun out on my because it spins me out it holds me down but you don't think speed is the right thing no nothing it's the wrong yeah wrong i'm a sense everything is wrong yeah that's why i came out of it to my partner that's why i came out coming in that it's wrong it's not every day but when I'm at Liverpool it's most days when I'm down here I'm cool yeah everything's cool but I you know I want to get that that place where I'm not doing shit do you know what I mean and it's not like when I'm going out I'm doing it it's like I'm at home doing it whatever yeah in an unhappy place when I'm amongst friends I'm clean I'm I'm sweet it's when I'm in that depressive place it's just so easy Xanax is so easy at the moment and what is Xanax what is Xanax how does Xanax make you feel I don't want to kill myself man serious is that alright yeah that's that's um it's no joke it's not it's not I'm not using it as buzz I just you know when you hear voices and you have gone through that and I've had voices it's kept away the voices it sounds like I'm justifying it's angering me it's saddening me it's stopping me hearing those devil things like go to Weary Tree jump off the train track you be good then I'll be hearing the other side of my mum mum saying mum come be with you son come be with me son I'll take care of you but that's not my mum and I'm thinking And it is.

58:15I remember when I'd done it, the second half, I'm saying, I love you, son. I miss you. You know, we're going to be cool.

58:27And I thought I heard her and I don't want to hear her again. Not like that. You know, I'll see my mum. I'll meet her again, but not yet. Not yet. I'm just hoping I don't. Yeah mate.

58:48Yeah. Have you ever thought about NA?

58:53Carl Thomas: Going to any meetings, getting some help? I have done, I was formidable with it in another area and...

59:06I think I was speaking to my man today about the cult. It's all good about going to NA, but I think people go there and you hear a lot of stories that are not true. And I get, you can see, like I said, you can't get a kid that you're thinking, you're waffling this. but I have done again but for my own uses not to for other people but I don't want to dismiss them but it's something I have to look into I need all the help

59:44Carl Thomas: I can get out of the room I hear you mate I hear you you might just find you might just find someone there who gets you been there and got the t-shirt like you are that one person who's there for you to bounce off a group of people in that room them have all been there and got the t-shirt and there'd be support in there for you? Hmm, I guess, yeah, I guess that is something I have to have really looking to, especially the way I am. I mean, I'm 57 and there's a lot of thought going on with the career I had what made me successful, the person I want to be, but I don't know if I'm going to be here because I'm living that life where I've diced with my life for so long if I don't think about it and come to terms and realise the options I've got I don't think I'm going to be here that long I'm not saying it will but I can't keep pushing I can't keep pushing Carl you're loved by a lot of people mate you are loved by a lot of people don't think that you're not, do not think that you're not loved by a lot of people.

1:00:59Carl Thomas: You need to reach out at these people, man. You need to reach out to your close people. Yeah, yeah. Just don't put on a block. Don't get ego in the way. Don't get anything in the way. Just go and speak with them. Say, I need help, man. This is me. You've got calm. You've got calm. And it's hard. You've got a good soul on you. You know that. I know that you've got a good soul in you. You can feel it now. Thank you. But it's... I think self-honesty is something I lacked for a long time in my life. From my marriage, more with my family, to my friends, after recently to my partner. and I full of hand with all that but the selfish, arrogant, egotistic ways always comes to me.

1:02:01I guess I would have got that from a young age. I ain't going to blame you mum, trust me but my mum didn't hide that she loved me and I knew I was a favourite from a young age and I manipulated her to get what I wanted. I guess that's where it started and my core issue and we'd done this in when I was in prison for the last time my friend and officer it was called The Onion Concept and basically it stripped you down and it was the core issue of you being this person and it was attention and all my life I suffered with attention excuse me mum playing the joker playing the fool being a hook being an MC being louder than life it's all for attention yeah I suffered with attention and I realised back in 2015 I was being myself

1:02:56Carl Thomas: and I was drawing people to me there you go now hold on to that you were being yourself and drawing people to you yeah how were you acting to draw people to you in your life being honest just being honest there we go I had why would you not why would you not at 57 today why would you not be honest? Because I'm in an area where I'm just I get there and you know that I just get off the train I just kiss my teeth and I'm just thinking what the hell am I doing that it's depressing and I get in my house like yeah my house is nice thing I'm just on my own question I don't mix with nobody unless there's a couple of people but they've got their own lives.

1:03:42So I'm 300 miles away from my own area and I just couldn't leave. So where are you then? My whole done, yeah I'm gonna say it, Liverpool. So you live in Liverpool? Yeah.

1:03:52Carl Thomas: Okay. And it's not everybody's like this so Scouts just please don't get out of me, it's just that my, you know, I'm just a different person but it's just, I mean in particular it's just bullshit, bullshit, just absolutely bullshit, it's just really, and it drains you, and I've stuck there sometimes, and I'm just thinking, oh no, and just overthinking things, and things are coming back into your mind, you can only do so much in a day, and you get that people, I like being on my own, yeah, you're on your own, because you're in an area where you like being but try and be on your own in the area you know you don't want to be so how can you change that well it's in the process now but you know where would you where would you like to be in the uk that would make you happy i'd like to be my bird yeah but uh liverpool no okay um but um london why don't you move back to london it's not it's not that easy um obviously um um doing a house swap and getting things done but there's no space in London things are hard even to rent it's not back in our days they want to know about everything are you happy when you're emceeing

1:05:15I just looked to my left because we spoke about this

1:05:24now yeah

1:05:31you're probably asking why I'm taking a long side I don't think I am because it's prolonging what's going on in my personal life I love doing it I've been busy over the last couple of weeks great but I'm 57 I believe I left the legacy I was one of the first to make it a living and be one of the part of the originals and I've been around the world twice over and up and down the country I had to live the Jimmy Henwick's life trust me I mean I can go toe to toe with Jimmy Henwick's awake we will have a good but

1:06:25But I've done it. I've had a good time. I like to think I can bow with a name still there. I still want to get booked. There's two places I want to do. But if it comes to an end now, I would smile. I achieved what a lot of people want to do. And it's a fantastic thing to do, music and like yourself. and it's something I'd tell anybody if you can move into the music world but there's a lot of bullshit that goes with it but I had a good time and if it came to an end I could say I've had a good run

1:07:01Carl Thomas: it ain't going to come to an end let's make it better how can we make it better are you going out there and going do you know what I'm enjoying this but it comes down to how you're feeling when you're at home and dealing with whatever's going on in your walls do you know I was talking to a peer and I mentioned his name Shabbat Eve and we've always spoken but we always said you alright you cool what time you on good rave cool I was at Moondance the other week and we spoke for 45 minutes lovely this guy I was just listening to him how his his honesty was off the scale he's married he's happy he's trying and I felt him for the first time I felt him I wasn't looking for I felt him I just it's on my mind and I got a big up shabby this guy his honesty was off the scale and he made an impression of me 45 minutes we spoke for that's lovely and this is the guy I've known for 35 years and we must have spoke for only 3 minutes cool we've never got a problem we're just you know he's just one of those things inspirational a minute ago you said about not wanting to see anyone or be around anyone what made you come down here to Bournemouth to recall this

1:08:30he's pushing me in I'll tell you a few reasons why I haven't heard of a person in a podcast spoken so highly about and I'm honoured to be on here I would like when it was sorted out I was like and saw about it I was like oh my god and the peers who talk about you my peers who talk about you are just you as well it's the right time just to make that statement where I'm suffering from what I'm going through and to speak to a guy who just speaks just like you this is not scripted you're just freestyling and we're just talking and you make me feel like ease. I feel like, that's why I'm being Terry Rides, you make me feel like I don't have to put my facade on.

1:09:23You're good. Thank you. And I'm honoured to be here. I really am. I really am. I'm glad that I'm getting this off my chest. And, you know, there's so much things what has gone on with my life. I mean, I can say I'll be all day, like, being out of control. I remember going to Australia twice. This happened twice. A heroin addict. Getting on a plane and I got shit on me. Got no methadone pills or this, that or heroin. So why you, I'm going to go to Australia? I'm not going to get sick. This is how mad I was. Lo and behold, I got ill. But I didn't know that Australia's got a bad, bad heroin problem.

1:10:17So they, you know, I spoke to it and sniffed it at that time. And they had this thing called, I think it was China, you can't smoke it. And I'm ill. And I've got to perform. So we've got a nurse, we've got to administrate it to you. there checked in my arm and then gave her back a speed so I it was crazy then then I went back again with this was DJ Baleo when we were first then I done it again with sorry Baleo's second time Storm First Lady drum bass big up chemistry R.R.E. and when I had it and the we won the best overseas performance this is in Perth imagine that amazing I'm sick yeah yeah the next minute I'm on the mic performing the best of my life this is what I called Jimmy Henry so I keep with my sister Jimmy Henry it was mad and I you when the first time it happens it's gonna come out and I remember being in

1:11:27Carl Thomas: an opera house funny enough down in Boscombe yeah yeah great venue and um hype what the hell have I heard about you I knew my ticket was up I knew there were people who had their inklings but this story was like this is this is gonna be something and at that time you got people which is not gonna have it I think it's the dirtiest that she is what it is you got people gonna be sympathetic and you got the people who just won't understand and I got hanged during the court and so be it I got judged but at that time which sounds weird I wasn't shoot for a few quid so I never had to go down that road okay to the end things got a bit yeah the stage flew up at my heights no and it's funny how I even got in it you know serving up becoming being, you know, moving drugs and shit.

1:12:35There was like a nine bar in the house which had brick dust in it. It was there for ages. But because of the way I live in my life, I was up on the coke for about, living a double life, having two birds, lying at my teeth. And I was up, and I remember I had a day off. And I was like, I just want to sleep. And something went, I got something in the cupboard. I wonder if I make a spliff, I smoke it, or if I come... So I made it up, bam.

1:13:13I just felt really... I threw up, because it hit me. But I felt nice, I went, I'm alright. I can sleep. And then that was going on for two weeks every day, smoking. I remember I had to go shopping but didn't bother because I'm late.

1:13:38What's wrong with me? Why do I feel not right? And then I got back. But before I always say that, if I would have read it out three days, it wasn't there. It would have been all right. So it captured me but it wasn't there in. but I knew when I I thought did you know

1:14:03Carl Thomas: straight away it was brown when I knew it was always brown oh you knew it was brown yeah I knew what it was doing but I didn't know you can get hooked like that I'm not learning I knew what it does but I didn't know how quick you can get hooked so if I had done it and I didn't have that nine bar I would have read that out and I would have been alright because I knew it was there and when you're on a heroin addict I don't kid you not you'll do anything to get better if that means taking it again that's what you're doing you I don't give a shit who you are when that pain kicks in you think you're gonna die but you're not gonna die it is devious it's the devil so coming back to that day I spoke to you and you were getting back I went oh shit really really Really?

1:14:56Carl Thomas: How old were you then? 22. And when's the last time you used Brown? Oh, gosh. Before I went to prison. So I'm 40. Yeah, you're talking about... 17 years ago. But it's... It was actually typical. Typical. I laughed. I didn't laugh at the end. Because a lot of things happened in between then. Always I'm not proud of. And like I said, did I get judged? Yeah. Right, if so, maybe so. Do you think anyone is still judging you right now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm... I want to let people... People find me hard to read. I carry... I'm a confident person. Even though I'm suffering, I'm retorting. I'm a very, very confident person.

1:15:59And I wouldn't go against me because of how I think. By not saying that you should be scared of me, I'll just leave my land, I'll leave your land. So I'd never hear anybody say anything to me direct because there'd be a problem. What they say behind me, I can't control. And maybe they do. Maybe they'll laugh at me. But this is where I'm strange, Dodge. If you've got time to talk about me, I lack attention, remember? So whether it's negative or positive, I love that. You've got time to talk about me. Because I've got no time to talk about you. So you can laugh, roll up, bring an egg and spoon jokes, whatever.

1:16:37I don't care. If you want to take it there to me, I'm here. But I don't want to think like that. But I was rightly so to be judged like that. So I take it on the chin. but um yeah so to question to you without any justification which i tried to do sorry about that is yeah i think you would do it's hard not to say someone being on um excuse me being on um heroin or x-ray it's hard to because how you see it it doesn't get it doesn't sound good does it No, it doesn't. It doesn't sound good.

1:17:18Carl Thomas: There's no goodness about it. If anyone's listening today, or watching this on YouTube, or listening on Spotify or Apple, and they know you, how would you feel if they reached out to you and they showed you some love?

1:17:39Probably definitely cry. I don't know if you cry now. I would, I would, I would, I would. I dropped this whole facade and just stripped myself. Probably when people get baptised like that, that's what I'm looking for, when we get baptised.

1:17:58Carl Thomas: Well, why don't we do it? Why don't we look at helping? Why don't we look at what can help you? You can't sit indoors all day using speed and other stuff and then your mind playing games with itself. You need someone to be talking to. and NA, mate, like, I'm not saying it's the be-all and end-all, but you're projecting that it's no good and people don't know what they're talking about. It's helping a lot, a lot of people. Yeah, I know. Would you ever be open to just going, do you know what? Let's go. I'm open hands. I'm not going there with my arms folded, going, this is Rodney, this is MC, this is Carl now.

1:18:36Carl Thomas: I need help. Whatever, anyone can help me. Please just help me and I'm open to this. Would you ever do that? Yeah, of course. I'm not scared of nothing yeah of course 100 % as I'm sitting there talking doing this podcast with you 100 % I mean like I said I'm not ashamed I'm not there to say oh if I say this how are people going to look at me I know there's people who've got a lot of pride I was I'm the one to say and I say to them I'm the fuck pride I'm in trouble okay it's not as bad as it no no it is bad as it would it is is it as bad as what I used to take no but it's a problem because I don't know it's interfering with do I want to be here you know you know I suffer from mental health so I'm mixing with everything with everything just to survive to be here to exist how did you feel before coming down today nervous for the first time and Mr.

1:19:44Focus was in Kerr my partner I've never been and I've done a lot of and I you know I just knew that you would tackle me you wouldn't be scared so I knew that so we tried not to listen to anything it's a no just be yourself and I just didn't know what to say I was, yeah, I was. I even made a phone call to my partner and she said, be all right, be yourself. And that's never happened for a long time. And even now it's helped me. Your advice, the questions you asked, it's helped. And it's helping now to feel it. I mean, the emotion I was getting. but I don't know but I can feel the realness, I can always feel that and it's endearing it's a release I know when I step out there and go home I'm going to feel positive I don't know how that long would last but at least I know that I'm going to survive another day

1:21:04yeah I think is yeah so yeah I just think it's up to me it can only be up to me and for anybody who's suffering the way I am or always it's like what you said reach out yeah I stop believing the simple things are problems shared it's a problem of half

1:21:31Carl Thomas: absolutely so I'm taking it like it's half now So let's hold this feeling right now that we're having. Imagine if someone who's known you for 10, 20, 30 years come into your life and then you've got this exactly the same feeling. How nice would that be? You'd prefer it, yeah. It would be. If I... You know, I think you know when you... I've always been a popular person. The phone used to ping off. I used to have problems. I used to be with relationships. It's just non-stop. And that's the first thing you recognise how much your phone doesn't ring no more. It's not because they're not liked. It's because they don't know who they're going to deal with.

1:22:17They're going to get on the end of the phone.

1:22:20Carl Thomas: People have their own lives to live. People get tired. How many people, again, we're going to wave a magic wand, right? How many people, Carl, in an ideal world that you know who you would love to build a relationship back up with again? How many people? Yeah. With that name and names? Yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ. If you just go through now and just... Why don't you say the names? I don't know them. Why don't you say the names that you want to reach out to and they reach out to you and I want to introduce you to Carl. I need help. I want to be open with you. Who would they be? Family? Names? Addison?

1:22:59Howard, Sonia, my niece, my nephew, my dad, Peter, Terry, Addy, Groove Rider, and I think they're the main core. Yeah.

1:23:23Carl Thomas: Where can people find you? They can always find me. It's about me reaching. It might be you reaching, it might be them listening to here and going, I'm going to drop him a message. I'm just going to ping him a nice message. But when you receive that message, you want to be there with open arms rather than closed arms, right? Mm. Yeah. You know, I take it on board that it is what it is and some things are what they are. And it just can't be fixed. Maybe it's just gone too long, but at least... No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not letting you get away with this. Okay. I'm not letting you get away with this cult.

1:24:01Carl Thomas: Things aren't too long, mate. This is the perfect timing. There's a reason why you've made the effort from Liverpool to come down to Bournemouth to come on my podcast. This is the perfect timing. This is the perfect time for you to open up and reach out to your friends. If your friends are listening, they're going to reach out to you and build these relationships back up again, mate. You can't be sat indoors doing everything you're doing and going stir crazy. Hmm.

1:24:32Makes sense.

1:24:35Carl Thomas: Today's the day, mate. I think so. I really do think so. You know, I had that, I get kind of spiritual in a way, and I feel signs, and I knew that today was a beginning of a day where, okay, I'm doing it. I'm doing a podcast. Cool. But I knew there was more to it. than this. There was a story to be told and there was some healing to do and there was some the provado's gone. Yeah. It's just no there's no fakeness. There's no there's just me being up front honest and real. And as a release I feel better. I do feel better. Good mate. I hope you do. And you know there's never about a shame like I said.

1:25:27Carl Thomas: Let all that go man. let all that go Jesus it's painful it's painful for you to even thinking about let that go open arms who are you Groovey who are you my uncle and auntie my dad open these doors get them back into your life you know that's the happy carl what point in your life would you say from the 0 to 57 years old was the happiest moment in your life definitely my school life I listen I can bang on about that phrase I ran to school that's how good my school was I ran to school I think the beginning of even though it was

1:26:13before I think before I became an MC and I had the crew there was five of us and there was another part of the crew

1:26:24Carl Thomas: who were they? they were Terry Addy okay Face Killer TJ Pete Nice Roots Nifty Inchai Dee

1:26:43Wayne and there was that Euclid of Furman we just had fun I think that was probably the happiest time in my life

1:26:54Carl Thomas: what decade is that 90s early nights early nights they're all still about today yeah I mean we are still in contact with bits there's fractions that are falling out and don't speak but that happens when you've got a big nucleus of a crew but you know we all drop in time to time I was with my boy Inchai he was part yesterday so you know we speak like I said me and Peter nice you read the book we still speak and did you play with any ever play with Mickey Finn I was with Mickey Finn Saturday you were with Mickey Finn Saturday what a bloke yeah he's what a lovely fella he reminds me he's like the white version of Groove and I find that with the hype as well there are three guys you just tell it the way it is there's no masking with these guys they are so up front and I like Mickey Mickey just just tells it the way it is yeah mate it doesn't mess with his words yeah I remember when I joined the agency and the phone and they go you're fucking off the drive yeah I went yeah he goes alright alright alright because I need you to be clean you know Flax I said I'm cool he goes I've been here though I said Mickey I'm cool alright alright alright we're going to join join join join Groove has always been There's only one Groove He's just He's just Honestly He just tells it the way he is He ain't arrogant enough He just If you're talking shit He tells you you're talking shit If you talk shit He tells you shit People call it rude or not It's just the way he is Straight It's easier It's easier to be straight innit Very straight I don't have to overthink And Hype is Funny guy as well Very Tells you the way he is as well TGI tells you the way it is.

1:28:51There's a lot of them, but they're the three ones formidable. Like, if you're talking shit, they tell you you're talking shit. Yeah. There's others who are straight, but they don't tell right you're talking shit. I like people like that. Yeah. They get right down to it. You know what I mean? But they want to put it in an arrogant way where they're going to like, they said, come on, man, if you're going to talk to me, talk to me.

1:29:12Carl Thomas: Where, where can people find you? You're on Instagram. What's so familiar you on? Do you know what? how do people get hold of you listen to this yeah I'm on that and someone hacked my account and reason and it's been 12 weeks and I was telling various amounts of people and I was telling even brokers there and I was saying I can't get back into it I've put my passport submitted but I'll get it back soon why don't we make it a priority after today to get it back active again well you said he's going to help me and I've asked you we do that because people listening to this I've got a lot of followers and anything else but because of what happened and this is why I probably hear I haven't missed it remember I was saying that to you I haven't but I know that I've got to get it on back and I will do promise I have to promise yeah I've shaken my hand then there we go you can see it's alive we're shook on it this is going to open up doors I know people go social media is bad there is bad things or whatever but for people to be able to access you after listening to this and open up conversations it can only be positive it has to be and it will be I mean you hear obviously the peers Heidi they speak about you and like Bunter was just raving on you he goes no wait please do it don't make sure you turn up don't fuck about this is the guy and I'd like to thank Daniel Billy Bunter for that Rachel and yeah just yeah Carl Carl I've really enjoyed this episode mate I've enjoyed your company thank you and I I enjoyed being there I just want to I hate to shout out but big up funky for being bringing me that moon dance um big up to Dave subject 13 expansion massive especially Collingdale the first guy who made me his MC and set my career on a path could have said that love to Kylie who managed me as did is definitely going out to Neville Amnesia House oh my god Wallagies are still going and the Overshadow crew the whole of them they've been there for me and Pete Knight's again the first lady and Caroline my agent and especially going out because I know he doesn't like this limelight I haven't known him long and he's here focus MC focus what MC honestly talent huge talent huge talent I've got to just pay homage and respect for doing this setting this up very special guy he's he's gonna be a friend and you thanks for having me my pleasure mate literally this is my pleasure okay my pleasure you're a good soul man you've got a really good soul in you and people I want them to reach out and I want you to leave today we've shook on it so you're getting away with that this has been recorded everyone's clocked in this is recorded you are ICF so we can meet down the road wanna meet George I'll give you a meet where you wanna meet yeah you wanna meet yeah Cole mate I thoroughly enjoyed this thank you for your honesty thank you I really do appreciate it thank you and we'll leave the links below where people can come and find you and open up questions and open up conversations absolutely alright thank you you're a gentleman and you yeah thank you good man I wish you the best thanks if you'd like to see someone on the show leave a comment below and if you haven't already do us a favour show us a bit of love press the subscribe button and it allows us to grow the show even bigger and bigger each week nice one