#348. Feared South Coast Gym Boss & Gang Leader - Danny Harkins

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1:51Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. We took one guy at the woods who worked for us and he pushed his rib through the back, jaw collapsed like it was in a sock. Someone's wrapping cord around his neck. Someone's putting his hand in the rice. I've done a thousand times worse than that. Said I'd hit him around the head with a hammer. Said I'd hit him around the body with a hammer. Had you? Well, he says so, but I wouldn't like to say. When you're in the game and someone owes you money, you all do what you've got to do to go get it. I don't get off on violence at all.

2:22I don't like it.

2:23Danny Harkins: Are you good at it? I'm good at it. Was there a lot of drama around your life around then? There was violence every day. Every day. I had quite every mob around me at the time. Them debt collectors were knocking six, seven doors a day. And there were other people working with us who could be called one if we were going to get savage. A lot of people in the game don't always realise how vulnerable they are. How did you and your gang get banged up for 43 years? Someone had set fire to my gym. Did you know who it was straight away? I know exactly who this is. Okay. If I got hold of him, I'd have skinning.

2:52Literally skinning. Was he a mate at the time? He was the best mate once, yeah. It's funny what money will do. Wow, okay. Yeah, so I'm glad we didn't get him. And he got shot in here twice later anyway. We put the two bullets for that guy's head.

3:12Danny Harkins: Hey guys, we've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands. If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video. We've also left the link below as well. Danny, welcome to the show. You're a Dodge. Very much looking forward to this one. It's interesting. We actually, for the listeners out there, we actually did one maybe a couple of years ago, but you didn't want to get put out.

3:47No, I was still on license. I thought it might upset the probation officer. might have been that um i don't know what was it sending dick pics to our babies i didn't like i'm your missus i thought my probation officer's not gonna appreciate it at all anyway we're here now again let's roll all the way back how did you and your gang get banged up for 43 years i think right so um someone had set fire to my gym uh and allegedly the uh cps said that he was my old partner and we'd fallen out they said over 100 grand which wasn't right uh anyway there's a bit of bit of one thing and a bit of the other and um so he set fire to my gym right and uh what year are we talking here it was two end of 2016 2016 okay yeah end of 2016 and um i'd um i'd had beef with some some other people had come out of nowhere in Southampton.

4:48And I ended up breaking this guy's jaw and was all quarrelling. But they weren't really going nowhere. And me and him, he'd moved up Birmingham to get away from me because he'd done some bad things and thought it was going to come on top for him. So when he discovered this quarrel going on, which could potentially get quite violent with these other people, he thought he'd make it look like it was him. so he had someone set fire to the gym and then make it look like it was them over there. But it became quite immediately apparent that it really was. And to be honest, you know, I had quite every mob around me at the time, was rocking and rolling with Dunwell.

5:34Literally, I had about three debt collectors on retainer working for me, knocking doors six days a week. So I was in a good position to take care of any problems. but you can only deal with a problem when you know where it is so this guy had moved away up north and didn't know where he lived lots of money big drug dealer so I thought this is a problem because he could hit my house next and I can't get to him, I can't stop this I can't make peace I can't make war, I can't do anything and when the gym got set on fire my daughter was with me we watched a bit of TV in the bedroom probably watching Barbies I think and it kind of really brought it home how vulnerable you could be if something suddenly happens and I think a lot of people in the game don't always realise how vulnerable they are but people ain't got to play by the rule book and I thought to myself this could be the house next time could be because they'd done it through a letterbox poured in whatever they poured and I thought I could be in the house I could be asleep I could be up there with more kids and I got a phone call from my neighbour so I rushed down you know got the phone to the fire brigade they turned up pretty quick it got put out pretty quick it was only in the reception area didn't do a lot didn't do a damage at all and to be honest as soon as I had loads of gym bebers come in the next day spent the whole day fucking cleaning it out blitzing it out and then we thought well fuck it let's do the whole gym out mirrored it all up put new equipment in graffiti art all over the walls made it even better.

7:14I thought, fuck you. But I was concerned. I was worried. I was thinking, you know, I had a nice girlfriend at the time. I split up my wife, a nice girlfriend. I've seen the kids half the time I had them, half the time the ex-wife had them. And I thought, well, this needs to be sorted. And I didn't know who I was. So I thought, well, he's probably still got a few lads working for him down in the area. a few people that used to sort out their drugs or whatever, a few little dealers. And to be honest, there was another guy I knew who was doing grows for him. And this other guy was doing grows. So I thought to myself...

8:00Danny Harkins: Hydroponics, weed. Yeah, big ounces for the weed. So I thought I'll get hold of him

8:08and persuade him to give a guy a call and say, you know, something's gone wrong. Say you get like a spider mite when they've got to cut down all the weeds. Something like that's happening. Easily they want to come down and see it for himself and then we'll do whatever we're going to do. And that was the plan. And then he wasn't where he was supposed to be. There was another guy in the same profession as what he was. and car painters who went down there when he went there go with the other one and again I know another guy who sold drugs from so to be honest I just thought he would just give over the information just do what he was told to do I was probably quite arrogant and generally the way it rolled back then and when he said no I'll give him a body shot I fucking flipped and that wasn't really the script next thing he's got me and five guys around him with balaclavas or snoods not being very nice to him and yeah but like I said it wasn't really in the plan they were kidnapped and what was going on pretty much every other day like I said you've got three people in retainer going and getting money most of the time they just knock the door you know you're late and you need to answer the phone and three guys knock your door, do you know any, that'll do it, you know, sometimes, you're late, not very often, I try to keep things, from, going turbo, or more turbo than they need to do, and occasionally, people get a good slap, you know, that's the nature of you putting money out, I'd always give everyone every opportunity to, pay back, if they fucked up, in some way, more time, or whatever, but um and this is a different situation so um there was personal there was ego involved it was hatred involved it was fear involved i'm fearful what's gonna happen to my family i'm i'm i'm hateful and angry and wanting revenge um you know and all all those emotions they uh and there's arrogance and all that clouds judgment doesn't it and ego and it massively clouded my judgment is there a big ego with it as well oh without a doubt yeah um because i remember i was grafted all my life you know left left school at 15 got kicked out of every school i went to you know i would work in factories and uh i was pretty much a straight guy that was a little bit selling bits and bobs when i was about 17 um i can sell them speed in the clubs back then but I knocked that I needed pretty quick actually got engaged when I was quite young and got a fucking shit job in a bakery working 12 hour shifts 12 hour nights 12 hour days and boxing so you know I'll be up at if I was working a 7 in the morning shift I'll be up at 4.30 I'll go for my 6 mile run finish work at 7 going down to boxing club and on the night shift they let me come in they let me come in late and get down to boxing club I didn't drive so a friend would drive me up to different clubs

11:25Danny Harkins: Boxing's been your life Been in part It should have been a lot more but yeah Obviously I went down the wrong roads in the end I want to go back I want to roll back a little bit You said that you had beef with this fella and then he moved up to Birmingham What was the trouble over?

11:42Well I won't go into it too deeply but we were it was over

11:50it's over a bit of money and it was over How much are we talking? There you go

12:00I couldn't rightly say let's just say I knew that he was robbing me to the tune of about nine grand a time and that was consistent a lot I found that out and then and then we robbed him well I robbed him cut about 150 grand back and then he knew it was on top it was on yeah Was he a mate at the time? He was my best mate once, yeah. It's funny what money will do. Wow, okay. Yeah, and he had a big ego on him. So I was quite front and centre. And the big name and all that. And I think that he resented that because he was more sensible of the two of us. Do you know what I mean? But it was my force behind it, I suppose.

12:51he couldn't really whenever I went about it would all go wrong for him but he was pretty pretty sweet pretty clever with a lot of things sometimes in that game it just comes down to to force what game was it what was he robbing off you well as I say the game was putting money out if you know what I mean and getting back a good return every time we put it out if you know what I'm getting at yeah of course yeah but he had a terrible ego you know what I mean and was he were you both using cocaine at the time and boozing right there's the interesting bit I was a proper bad drinker yeah up until about the age of 18 from 14 to 18 I think I had about 14 odd convictions by the time I was 18 for GBH intent GBH you know toilet square balloon back when that was the biggest pub in Hampshire tore that apart fucking knocked out about Fordham it was a fucking a nightmare absolute nightmare but I went teetotal at 18 completely teetotal got back into boxing and I didn't drink again until I was about 33 and wound up getting married and getting quite sensible so I just long period of being and to be honest going down to boxing club I was coaching for years I wanted to quit boxing yeah fucking so I was quite a good guy I really enjoyed coaching I was taking kids all around the country I weren't doing no wrong I'd put all that behind me and then you know I think I was on the running track one day doing a bit of training I had a nice gym I had a a good gym a bodybuilding gym um which was doing alright um but not making fortunes and my mate was always in my ear trying to get me to do this and I never wanted to get involved really and uh I thought fuck it and one day I got involved because of the pound note yeah yeah I remember I remember saying to my missus what do you think what she didn't know was the violence that was going to come with it as it progressed do you know what I mean and fuck me did it progress it progressed rapidly because I knew so many people probably you know my whole life especially around a boxing game you know having a gym so it progressed really quickly and you know I mean the first time I made a move it was only 700 quid each but I thought that's nice it was like 15 years ago and then the guy come back and I made another 500 quid it was 1200 quid in one day of course I'm on the phone I know and then after that as it progressed it was just me and him to start with and then you get a driver you know what I mean and then it went like for years and then you get someone to answer the phones stuff like that and then another year or so later you get someone to go with you you know what I mean because you think you're knocking doors are we talking debt collecting here well we're talking serving up as well

16:03Danny Harkins: your own money from serving up I never debt collected for no one else I never would when I say that it's not true on occasion I have yeah okay when times have been hard and someone gets on the phone and say there's a debt I'll give you that but I don't like it yeah okay I don't like to do it referred to in your own debts? Back in the day. I said, I don't do none of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? So how quickly did it progress then? A business where you can do it right at the moment because so many people are not paying people. Yeah. You know, I had some Albanian fella, nice fella, and he's got ahold of me through someone else and he said, there's a, I want to say a quarter million debt.

16:40I'm like, I'm not involved. Do you know what I mean? But, I'll hear what you've got to say. Do you know what I mean? I think he said 50 grand. You know, and I said, well, that's not enough. It's 50-50 on a collection. But obviously, it's negotiable. I stopped myself because I thought, you know, if I take this on, then there'll be more and you're never out. And by the decision, I'm out. I don't want nothing to do. Do you know what I mean? And it's also, you know, I think my morals or my values have evolved. from prison and all of it and you know I think in that case it was you know the guy had already gone to jail so you want to lean on the missus or whoever and like I'm not really as completely against everything I've always stood for so and that doesn't mean when you're in the game and someone owes you money you will do what you've got to do to go get it and you will put

17:43Danny Harkins: if it's your own money even more so if it's your own money rather than doing it with someone else anger ego yeah yeah yeah and uh finally I thought I went to jail I met a lot of proper top people you know and uh I met a few people who were like you know they'd have massive debts I just let them go and like hundreds of thousands I think to me that would go against my values then like I'm not letting no one fuck with me do you know what I mean but you know what I You could sink the whole ship over that debt, you know, and get everyone else put in jail. I can kind of see their logic. I mean, if you're in that game, it's not how I would roll myself.

18:24Did you find it easy debt collecting for your own money? Yeah.

18:27Danny Harkins: Was it more have a nice conversation, and then if you don't pay, you've got a certain amount of time, and then there's going to be trouble? Or did you just bowl through the door? It was mixtures. Okay. For the most part, by the end, I had one debt collector, two debt collectors, three debt collectors. on your books that's a bit of ego yeah sending three people at once but it's also thinking if I send three there's less likely to be trouble and more like send one there might be a drama send three definitely there ain't gonna be no drama do you mean three big lumps one who can articulate himself well um but yeah ego kicks in like sometimes you ain't gotta get him a flash of a gun but sometimes you think fuck it you know it'll tell a few it'll spread a bit of fear you know stick that in his ooter yeah you know and uh yeah definitely like the ego and like I said I had no qualification I haven't really read no books except boxing books so you know all of a sudden you've gone from driving really looking forward to driving around your missus buying a 3-4 grand motor to buying brand new top of the range BMWs and Range Rovers so did you ever think it would come on top ego kicks in yeah yeah but did you ever think it would ever come on top of the old bill saying where's he getting all his dough from yeah of course yeah okay yeah And my point a minute ago, were you using cocaine back then as well?

19:46Danny Harkins: Because paranoia would have kicked in. Paranoia, I was never too bad with it. And I never really started using cocaine bad before gel. So I was T total up to about, I want to say, the age of 33. What were you today? 46. Okay. And it weren't like bad. It weren't bad. But I was running like five limited companies and doing everything else. so it was enough to fucking fuck you up because and I think that's how it would just creep up, it'd be a weekend thing though it would never roll into two days and my my energy and my recovery back then were through the roof so I mean I remember fucking one night, I've gone on it all night all fucking night with some bird fucking left red in the toilet it's a pure club I've gone down to the boxing club I haven't slept I've gone down to the boxing club and put my foot in the tyre with someone come on let's do some spinals going round and round I haven't slept if I did that they'll be fucking dead but yeah the coke use would never roll into a second day it'd be once a week more or less tops it would never be a lot really and when you were at the peak of your power before you got banged up did you feel invincible yeah definitely no there was times when I did and then there were a few things colliding a few forces colliding at the same time I was going for a divorce that fucking rocked me I was having an affair I was falling madly in love with this other girl and I was torn between I'm all loved up over here I could have a very happy life over here I've never really got on that well of her wife but she got pregnant and I've done the right thing and uh she's hard work to put it mildly and uh so but there's duty yeah you've got your kids so from the outside everything would have looked fairly respectable although at one point by the end everyone fucking knew and it was like proper out there and yeah my wife was hearing stories about me fucking hanging people over the motorway bridges and kidnapping people left right and center and um I'd get the happy word that yeah you know and I think the divorce completely put me into a bit of a spiral got really depressed about it like not knowing what the right thing to do is like in my head probably brought up a Catholic you know Sunday school and right religious family at one point and so you've got these these ideas go into your subconscious you know no matter what happens you stick with your your wife so really fucking done wedding and and every time I try I leave the other girl and do what I've thrown at the back with the other girl and that was going on for about maybe a year and a half and it must have done her wedding definitely done her wedding done both her wedding done my wedding as well but all the while wouldn't say coat use was creeping up much but it was there and nothing, nothing heavy, never a big drinker either really, but enough that hangover, whatever, could probably, you know, discombobulate you for a few days.

23:18And if you're running six companies, five companies, six of them.

23:21Danny Harkins: There's a lot going on. You can't be. Yeah, mate, I get it. Yeah, you have to be on the ball. Especially if it's a dangerous game. I still want to find out when was the time when your best mate you thought or knew you found out your best mate was nicking off you? And how did that, how did that relationship go from there? Did you just turn on him or did you confront him or did you tee him up or how did it work? I think there's a few fall outs. Yeah. First off, first off, my old man, he's off clued up pretty savvy at some things, quite streetwise. You know, he was like the leader of Chelsea. Headhunters.

24:01Yeah, well, before that. that was in the 90s more like the 70s and so I was pretty switched on real street smart good round of pound and I remember him saying if someone's robbing you but you're still making more money with them maybe let it go I don't think that was good advice because it could be it couldn't be but because once someone has a fiver off you they want 50 quid once they've got 50 quid they want a ton then they want a grand and it's just going to get more and more and more and it comes to a point where you've got to and by that point it can be quite bad so not initially and there was a to be honest I hadn't been very fair with him before that either so I'd probably the way it worked I got paid and I'd give him his money later and I kept on running my own bill and then cashed it in and let him bite off me.

25:04And he begged me to come back six months later because he couldn't run it. So that was kind of what I'd done. It was probably not very fair. I think when you're in that game, you start, I said we were always at each other's throats a little bit anyway. There's a lot of ego involved. I think more on his side, there you go. Was he a hard man? No. I don't think he was. He'd wrap a hammer around your head, but he wasn't hard.

25:29Danny Harkins: man yeah no and uh what was the bit that you thought that you put the squeeze on him so much that you moved to birmingham why so let's eat with a driver and um then we had a fight and the driver gave him a whack driver's a good little good little boxer and um he fucked off and then the driver's panicking he's on bought a shotgun with his money so he said to me you're gonna have to smooth this out so i went and met the geezer and uh got on the phone and uh he's met me in a chinese restaurant and uh i actually was out for the day anyway with his mum and whoever else who's just a driver yeah yeah and he came little yeah and uh nice guy actually so i've gone we do hey i don't what you fucking kicking off and he's telling me what happened he said Dan he's doing you for a certain amount of money every time we do this every you know so it was a lot of money what do you mean and I remember thinking oh but I was making a lot of money and he was making a lot of money certainly without me he wouldn't have been making nothing and because I had the contacts in the force but I remember thinking

26:52better with him than without him. He was probably doing a lot of things that I didn't want to do. And I was comfortable with my end of it, which was probably the violence. And... Say again. The collections. Yeah. Money collections. And you were happy with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I might go into too much detail on this, but I was happy with my end of it. And more happy than I would have been with his end of it. so I let it go for a while and then he invented other ways to rob us what happened is there were two two teams one team doing two different jobs and I run my team all debt collecting putting work out there and on tick for the most part back then and then collecting it it don't operate it don't work like that nowadays it's a dangerous game but loads of keys

27:46Danny Harkins: out there and then you want to claw that money back and one key's gone missing and then you're on that person's case then it all erupts on that manner them debt collectors were knocking six seven doors a day every day I'm running like five six days a week every day and I wanted to keep them busy so I got my pound of flesh out of them and you know I was looking to expand and get bigger so I figured best have the force behind you and other people working with us who could be called on if we're going to get savage. Do you know what I mean? So, to me, people always pay back. You know, whatever you had to do, they pay back.

28:26But sometimes that involved a lot of violence. Sometimes it involved the threat of violence. Sometimes just a knock on the door would do. Most of the times that would do. I'm certainly not, I don't get off on violence at all. I don't like it.

28:42Danny Harkins: But you're good at it. I'm good at it. But I don't like it. So, and And I never liked it. I never liked guns. You know, at all. I've never... Yeah, I don't like them. Have you ever used a gun? No, I haven't. But I've had people around me and gone, there you go. Get me. Kept my arms distance. But no, I've never liked them. Probably because I'm not a bad little rocker. And a gun's an equaliser. Some little nine stone fucker can put me away with one of them. and I also know that the prison sentence around them going off is horrendous you know you get caught with a gun it's fire you get caught with bullets more on top of that now get caught with a fucking anusius thing it's worse you know and then you've got say you've got a few guns in your firm yeah they've got to go somewhere you know and whoever gets caught with them is in trouble also when people know you're pulling them out they're going to put more of an investigate you know they're going to investigate you harder yeah the budget on you is going to be harder and family around you as well things can go wrong yeah you can tell someone to go do one thing you do another do you know what I mean and so yeah and don't get me wrong push come to shove they were there if I put one in mind it's because I'm going to use it and do what I do and that's the end of it so you know if it's just someone sticking it in someone's face that's not a job for me but um back then um was i doing things the right way i think i lent into threat and force too often and probably a lot of the time i was probably more violent than i needed to be and perhaps on occasion i wasn't violent enough but if you're in that game you You have to embrace that because one thing's a fact.

30:42Nowadays, there's a lot less violence with sensible people. You've got your people who rob people and all that. There's never more game. But people who operate and operate well, they're people's friends. They're good networkers. They keep everyone sweet. People are generally happy to meet each other, have a coffee, whatever. And they're just friends. And they keep that kind of, you know, I've never done it like that. I was always very much right. Bang, bang, bang. You know what I mean? This is business. And sometimes, but, you know, there were a lot of people who were working for you you didn't even like.

31:18You didn't like what they were about, you know.

31:21Danny Harkins: Did it ever come on top for you at any point where you thought, I could lose my life here?

31:36I don't think I I don't think I worried much about it I was thinking if someone's going to come to the house they're going to kill me they're not going to come with that gun so it is what it is I never really that was I always knew that was there and I thought if someone comes around my house you know I'm going to try and kill them for sure so they're not going to fuck about are they and everyone knows me knows that so I just think if it happens it happens do you know what I mean I never I never I never bullied no one I never wronged no one not well maybe I did but not like most people if you owed me money I give you every chance to back back every fucking chance you know and it would go on for a long time

32:26Danny Harkins: for an example if someone's due you say you're going around to pick up 15 grand because something went wrong along the line are you going to the person who's actually due you or they've got to pass it down the line everywhere or are you trying to go to the source going hold on who robbed that whatever it may be well once someone's got something that's not my problem it's his problem that's his problem that being said we would I would let people know if they were working for me that my team would collect their debts if it was a problem. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, which I figured was like an incentive to make them want to work for us.

33:04But it was a stupid incentive because that's the drama that you don't want. Do you know what I mean? That's the drama you don't want.

33:12Danny Harkins: Was there a lot of drama around your life around then, back in those days? It was violence every day. Every day? Pretty much every day. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? and

33:23just a lot but you know and then going from being a great dad and family man all that you take some of it home with you you come home and you know you're drilling us up and my temper was through the roof but I'd be looking at this who owes me money I'd be taking it personal and yeah temper was through the roof on the I'm a was with my wife driving down some country road and to a nice restaurant and I'm on the phone I'm screaming and shouting I'm going absolutely fucking ballistic and I turn the motor around I'm heading to go get the guy of course she's expecting a nice meal yeah and dumped off at home and I found her little cunts you know and it's not a way to live and even if you're there quite and you're not I think your persona changes when you come back from that or you're on your way out for it it must have been hard to live with

34:28Danny Harkins: so if you're going around collecting dough have you ever owed money to people where someone's gone wrong along the chain with you? yeah what happens there? not bad though been late been late a few times just getting the phone that's what it is

34:53yeah

34:57yeah I think it is what it is isn't it don't get me wrong I'm not that way inclined so worst case be a bit late but if someone starts shouting and screaming at me down the phone there's going to be problems I'm not having that do you know what I mean? So, and they're putting out a lot of work. There has to be an understanding anyway, especially because people can give you a lot of leeway and then take it away. Because say something bad happens there and they get robbed here, here and here, or their clients don't pay back, they're going to start pulling on everyone else. But no, I've never really had any problems like that.

35:40Danny Harkins: has there been nationalities you dealt with in that game where you know they'll take things to another level?

35:48Not really. I'd say, I'd say Scoutsers in London is a more dangerous than any foreigners I've worked with.

36:00Danny Harkins: Yeah. Yeah. And nine times that, at ten, if they want a bit of violence done, they'll be subbing it out to someone like me or a scouser or a Londoner do you know what I mean if I'm honest that's a fact yeah yeah yeah you know and that's a fact yeah what other nationalities do you work with

36:27I'm not a stable but obviously everyone works with Albanians at some point whether you want to or not they're alright they're they're very easy going very family minded very hospitable really hospitable

36:50yeah I like the bone I think when it comes to cultures different countries we do have different cultures and people like to say we're not all the same you know if you were brought up in this country you're going to behave a certain way if you look at the Albanians, they were a communist dictatorship for a long time, right? You know, you watch a bit of porn, you're going to get beaten. So living like that, under a very, very totalitarian dictatorship where the men in charge really rammed nationalism down their throat line, making them believe they are like the best people on earth. so I can be very racist towards really racist towards a lot of other cultures you know and I know a lot of people yeah so that's very apparent with them very much you know but they're very very charismatic a lot of them are very charismatic and they'll hide that but sometimes it seeps through and I don't like that certainly might have that around me and I'll make that aware i make that deadly aware straight away i mean so that day so that day when you got your gym got petrol bombed did you know who it was straight away no because i just had a quarrel with a group of lads and i've got a few sleep messages through on my phone trying to make it pointed towards these lads but i could tell from the language hold on I know exactly who this is okay I know exactly who this is and a few more other things come up and then I was aware and yeah because it could have gone every which way but you got nowhere to point before you pressed the trigger wouldn't you

38:43Danny Harkins: what did you immediately do when you found out they'd been bombed

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40:24fluid for a letbox and set on fire luckily it didn't go past the

40:28Danny Harkins: so you got petrol bomb what was the first thing you did who was it did you have a number of people in mind because your mind must have been spinning at that time right yeah I can't remember loads of things would have been how quickly can I get this back open what have I got to do now who did it how can I keep mind safe something's got to be done this person's got to be neutralised and to be honest if I got hold of him we were going to fucking fuck him right up like real bad fucking half skin him like literally skin him fucking so I'm glad we didn't get him and he got shot in the head twice later anyway so we had some like he got shot in the head twice he got shot in the head twice yeah how long ago how long ago after the incident it's a funny story that was probably not that funny but um i think i've been in jail best part of for a year yeah so that for a year so and when i was in jail he was um menacing my missus real bad like uh first it started for like spraying drug dealer across to the gym which is a bit ironic for a drug dealer in it um what so when you were banged up he sprayed drug dealer across the front of someone would have done someone done it yeah you know i was driving a ferrari at the time yeah i mean um he um was getting the windows put through um and it was a long time before he found out where the mistress lived and put her windows through and uh and then eventually but about 80 months in he set fire to a car and he set fire to your missus car yeah and she was terrified you know she was absolutely terrified you know and I adored her she she literally like did so much for me she ran all my businesses she's come around twice a week to jail before when I was on judges no when I was on regular remand because it was like 80 months on remand I think 9 months that I think was on regular remand nine months was on judges in mind a bit complicated we had like three trolls and yeah she would run the businesses she was doing a six hour round trip there and back and I was at first she was going three times a week where were you I was starting Bullendon should have gone Winchester but apparently they said they didn't want me they thought I'd be problems because it's my local and then the second troll the first troll collapsed when it got to the second troll when he got to the second and I think that was his I can't remember jury members dropping out a long time ago too many people knew who we were and if that judge finds out he's got to get rid of them well they'd heard things it was all quite well known

43:33me and one other well me and one or two other in particular I started hearing things like we were a sinister bunch and I look back and I think it's a shame really that I ended up with that reputation back then because I'd been a real nice guy before that and I think greed takes you down those roads. But yeah, back to what he did. He eventually set a car on fire and being in prison and not being able to look after your person.

44:09Danny Harkins: How did that make you feel, being out of control? well no control stuck in prison while that's going on outside I won't lie so I can remember all the emotions but there's a lot of hate a lot of fucking rage a lot of anger you know you look in the mirror and you just want to fucking blow his fucking head cream off and you're thinking about that half and many hours a day yeah getting out and blowing this cunt's head off if I'm honest but um be also thinking you know easily come out in a strong position you know it'll be loads and loads of money behind him right I'm gonna come out fucked I haven't lost all my businesses and when you go to war you want to have a few quid behind you do you know what I mean and you don't want to be on licence either so I was thinking fuck me I want to be in a bad spot because I remember my ex-wife said she thought one of us would have to get killed she was positive and she still took me back after me in the Gelfast club after her car got set on fire that was too much for her and she was really very very traumatised from it all and to be honest that fucked me up quite bad as well because I ain't really no I ain't really I mean I'd ever loved a bird like that before so it hit me very hard letting go of that and I knew she was still in love with me when it was just a sad situation really but like a situation of my own making ultimately because I planted the seeds long before I even met her.

45:45That's the saddest thing about it because at the time that I met her, she wanted me out of it all and I was happy. And she was a straight goer, I take it. She was a straight goer. And I was happy to start doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Start moving towards that.

46:04So, you know, she'd got through the worst of it with me, back and forth with the missus, getting my head around it and knowing that this life had to come to an end.

46:21Unlike a lot of other girls I've been around, she wasn't very, they loved it. And she was like, never again, but in jail, when you get out, first month, don't be doing nothing. your head's going to be a bit mangled. Do you know what I mean? And rather than, to be honest, my wife was all about money. You know what I'm about? She wouldn't have cared at all. You know what I mean? What I was doing. As long as she was getting paid.

46:51Danny Harkins: So who killed? Who put the two bullets for that guy's head? Yeah, that was a guy called Aston. Yeah, a guy called Aston. And nice enough guy. And he'd sprung up around the Winchester area. so and that was really my area and he'd started springing up getting quite big and I'd I'd words him actually I said you weren't putting the work you weren't putting the violence in you know what I mean so you're not going to suddenly start and we'd had that chat and he acquiesced if you know what I mean to my way of thinking and we'd have jumped on board and then I got got to sit down within a week and he fell into bed with the other fella.

47:37Your ex-business partner? He started working with him, yeah. And it all went peaked on. I think he got robbed and he owed a dough. And he got robbed, owed a dough and the other fella was threatening his family. You know, you have to sell your house. and I guess he put enough fear in him that he felt he had to do something and he did I think it was a robbery and all but he put enough fear in him he thought there's no choice I'm not selling my house and I'm not my family to get killed so not that that would have happened but it ain't bad it could have happened you know it was all everything was escalating so I felt generally sorry for him

48:35because he weren't an hard guy he weren't a nasty guy this guy killed him he was the last person you think thought we'd do it he was getting bumped all over the show to be honest no one ever bumped me I always got my money back always you know

48:49Danny Harkins: you're saying Aston wasn't a hard guy no and he was getting bumped left or right and centre okay and I knew I guess my old romantic side felt sorry for him because I knew he'd been with his missus since they were teenagers and um you know in the 30s now whatever they were just bought a lovely little house kids and um been together their whole lives and you got 35 year you got 35 got 35 yeah so and in my head i'm thinking at a time i'm way of a lot of murderers people out and they're getting like 20s 25s 35 years and if you look at the mitigating circumstances he's had his family threatened he's in fear for his life he's in over his head and he's acted out of fear and so yeah I felt a little bit sorry for him do you know what I mean have you seen him since no I might go visit him and buy him a Kit Kat saying thank you yeah yeah Because if I was, I remember being in jail, in bullying.

49:55You were thinking... I got down on my knees. Yeah. Right. I've always gone to church here and now, but I got into a lot more in jail. I remember getting down on my knees. I remember saying, saying along the lines of, what do I say?

50:15Yeah, God, do me a favour, kill my enemies so I don't have to. You know, I meant it. do you mean and i remember within about two weeks something else had happened right some guy who'd uh stole my watch on the out he gets stabbed about 19 20 times he stole your watch where no that's a long story yeah but um while i was inside my watch was stolen okay they got they got grafted yeah um and the guy who did that got stabbed nothing to do with me it was you know terrorising someone and the guy was terrorising stabbed him and the guy so I've said this prayer to God alright and then two weeks later this guy's been stabbed and the guy that fucking did it comes into Bullingdon and he wants to meet me see if I can look after him help him out or something I remember thinking fucking you know what I mean and then that was in Bullingdon about two years later I was in Coldenly and G gets shot do you know what I mean who did

51:16Danny Harkins: who got shot but the guy I was in for he got shot and then like I've been thinking what am I going to have to do to this guy when I get out so the Lord works in mysterious ways what did you get charged for? I got charged for kidnap and conspiracy to fall to prison so it was kidnapping the other fella the one who was working for him and conspiracy to imprison two other people, their partner, alleged partner, and the guy was going to get to him through, who had degrowth. And they couldn't do me for, they'd done me for kidnap for one person, they couldn't do me to kidnap, conspiracially to kidnap the other two, because they couldn't prove we would have moved them anywhere.

52:11So, kidnap is basically forced imprisonment with movement. Yeah. It actually carries a much bigger charge, that element of movement. You've only got to move 400 metres up the road. It goes from a forced imprisonment to a kidnap.

52:25Danny Harkins: So when you did that kidnap, that got you, what, did you get nine years personally, didn't you? Yeah. You got nine years. When you did that kidnap, was that planned or was it kind of all just happened off the cuff? Wrong person, wrong timing. What was, what went on in your head at that point? And who were you with? You were a load of other lads. yeah guys who worked for me okay and um how many in that 43 years how many of you went down with a 43 year sentence six okay so I got nine from that one kidnapping the guy that got the eight oh Jamie I did feel sorry for him did and didn't long story um cause I gave him an eight and he he really like we just said Jamie we need you to drive tonight that's it he weren't working for me working with me but not for me not part of the inner team so and they tried saying he was the my right hand man it's fucking ridiculous I'd be embarrassed if he was my right hand yeah would you just call him up say do you mind driving tonight I was embarrassed about after fucking COVID to be honest I remember my mate Rodney going dad it doesn't look good getting nicked with these fucking donuts yeah okay do you know what I mean okay and they're never happy because they're on the least money everyone else is getting paid big and drivers, runners, whatever, I get fuck all.

53:47So they're never happy when they get any done. I don't blame them. But then they're not stupid. I know the consequences. So what happened? What happened that day? Did you call upon...

53:56Danny Harkins: So we... You had five other lads wrapped around you that day to go and do a job. Yeah, we... The idea was to... I'll skip this right. Best as I can remember it.

54:09To go up to... speak to the guys doing the grows and just talk them into

54:14Danny Harkins: I thought literally so you got the guy doing the grows to get in contact with the fellow who's gone to Birmingham and just say yeah for him to come down and then you'd get him look grows all gone wrong yeah okay okay and then I figured I got a lovely lovely grow what a delightful place to fucking pack this cunt up yeah I was fucking fuming there would have been so much anger in me and give him a few quid and then you know look after him tell him he's in bed with me now with the gross and whatever else and he'd be good for nothing after I was finished with him but to be honest we were supposed to intercept him like so you know we wouldn't have been visible but the guy where he was supposed to be and I thought, well, we didn't get all dressed up for nothing.

55:13Do you know what I mean? There's another guy who serves up for him. Let's go and see him. And the arrogance of me would probably be if I say, you know, that'd be it. You're going to do as you're told. And, you know, like people are getting kidnapped every week. You know, a lot of violence going on in the town. People are very aware of it. So I was kind of shocked when he wouldn't give me the number. I said he served up for him, but he weren't really a villain at all. So I guess he's being a bit naive. Next minute night, I'll give him a body shot. I didn't really mean for it to escalate as quick as he did.

55:56I think the others just got a bit excited. Someone's wrapping a cord around his neck. Someone's putting his hand on the device. Someone's got a heat gun out. you know but that sounds worse than it is I mean I I mean I put a screwdriver up his nose you know and I'm talking to him he's got his hand and the vice heat guns it's all happening simultaneously so it would have been very scary for him but I've done a thousand times worse than that that was the threat of violence maybe a little bit of violence but we didn't really do any proper violence to him so but a poor lad would have been it would have been terrified But I've took people out down the woods and broke their bones in seven, eight places.

56:38So... Say that again. I've gone, took people down the woods and broke them off their body to pieces. So we didn't really do a lot of violence to them. It was the threat of violence.

56:47Danny Harkins: Your level of violence. Yeah, absolutely. But that poor lad must have been fucking petrified. Absolutely. Six lumps around him. And that poor lad was just an in-betweener from the guy you actually wanted. Yeah, it was just serving up for him. So it was a means for him. Why did you jump on him? Because, so these are up north, right? And I know my gym's been set on fire. All I know is, right, I'm now in danger. I don't know where this guy is. He can get to me and my kids and my whatever, like that. Other businesses, he's got to go. So, and when you think about it, if you think your kids are in danger, right, you can't get too lost in niceties and everything else.

57:36You've got to do what you've got to do to make them safe. So the only way to make them safe was to neutralise him. And the only way, I had someone who was good at finding out where people lived. But, the guy was good. I remember, back before we proper fell out, he had a girlfriend. He had a wife as well. He had a girlfriend he had a few kids with. And he'd put everything in her name. Like car, house and no one knew who she was so you couldn't go you had nothing to go off you didn't have a number plate didn't have an address you didn't have a name but you knew he was

58:10Danny Harkins: in Birmingham yeah I knew he was in Birmingham people would have said but surely you could have hunted someone it's not hard to hunt people down in Birmingham or Liverpool or no that's what I'm saying yeah because he put everything say they're renting a flat their house whatever probably got a five-bed mouse down there so essentially what you've done to that lad you wanted to do the main fella put it this way there's no way if everything's if you move away yeah and you put everything in some girl's name everything the car house the rent there I can't find you no way no way not right at the back I reckon you could I reckon I probably could now I reckon you could I reckon you could I think I'm in context of increasing but the guy that I had say people weren't missing my money he could eight times out of den find out where they were find out where their mum lived find out something like that right in this case you couldn't i mean we knew where the mum was a gym you'll be a hunt someone down yeah yeah yeah yeah okay all right so so i guess and i'm thinking like i ain't got days i ain't got weeks i don't know when this is gonna happen whatever's gonna happen i don't know what's happened right and um you know he was working with um a very very naughty firm very powerful firm right um or so I've been led to believe and there was a few naughty firms we worked for and I know you give them a few quid and someone could disappear so I'm thinking whether it be a house fire whatever you know I'm thinking you had the fear of it happening to you before yeah you had to make a move one more kids my daughter was with me how long was it from when your gym got petrol bombed not long at all to when that happened not long at all I can't remember Are we talking months weeks days No A week or two So the anger in you at that time would have just been building you thought right if he's a contact Well there were other people Was it to put the fear up him knowing that we've just done this to someone he's working with No the idea was to get him to say you know To get him down here The groves all gone wrong Yeah okay Right so he's not going to want to let him cut down But he's been clever enough to say I don't care if the groves gone wrong I'm staying up here No because that didn't happen because we didn't get him.

1:00:29He wasn't where he was supposed to be. So immediately we've gone to plan B, found another guy who works for him in a similar setup, spraying cars.

1:00:39Danny Harkins: Spraying cars? Yeah, both of them were car sprayers. Funnily enough, they'd worked together before.

1:00:47Yeah, I mean, the other guy put in a statement on me as well. Said I'd hit him around the head with a hammer, said I'd hit him around the body with a hammer on a previous occasion. Had you? well he says so but I wouldn't like to say yeah yeah yeah I wouldn't like to say

1:01:12Yes, I'm thinking I need to get him fucking fast because I don't know when it has to come. So the first part was planned. The plan B was reckless. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but to be fair, I am surprised that guy hadn't just acquiesced because he would have stuck three grand in his hand at the end of the night as well.

1:01:33Danny Harkins: So he didn't pass over the number, that's what? Yeah, what we wanted him to do, right, just put an order in. right for some drugs and he said but he won't come he'll send his runner and to be honest once we got older the runner we'd have gone from there and he would have told us where he was one way or the other and yeah so I'm so blase about it after we put a bit of three in him it was cool I'm on board I'm like and you're going to get this there's three quid you're going to get at the end of the night so three grand yeah so I'm thinking it's a win win for you we'll look after you better than you've been looked after before you've got three quid you know you're not getting no drama and he's no problem and he's got us believing no problem and he's took us to a place right and waiting outside saying he's up oh he's not there we've gotten in a booze with him thinking it's all cool now he's getting paid he's happy you know and we didn't really think it was like I said he got in the car by himself it's not like we bundled him in the booze you know it weren't much of a kidnap you know what I mean it was just like he's then blagged us and told us he's got hold of a guy and he's going to meet him at the paint shop right it's pitch black industrial unit so right so we've all gone back right turns out it's all bullshit he's not arranged it so to this day I don't know why he did that because I end up in witness protection he's been moved up north he's never coming back so as far as I know so he's turned his whole life upside down so I can't get why I'm not saying I know I wasn't in the right but it doesn't it defies logic and yeah he's we got down here and like we're waiting right so I've actually gone put the kettle on you know let's have a cup of tea and I meant that he's thinking fuck they're going to kill me right because there was a kettle in the back and there was sugar in the back and gaffer tape and everything else that we would have.

1:03:39So, but in this case, I actually wanted a cup of tea. So I told the other lad, make sure you keep a fucking eye on him. And he was fucking being dopey. And next thing he's gone. I'd done a caravan. He's phoned up the drug dealer, the big drug dealer. And he's gone, well, what do you want me to do? Phoned the police. So it's a big, bad drug dealer. He's robbing people, serving up fucking keys left, right and centre, driving a Ferrari and all that is telling him to find the police. And he's found the police. Right? He's found the police. Police have gone straight round to his missus' house, pulled the kids out of the house.

1:04:19They've never gone back. Whatever belongings they took there and then I think, something like that. Got him, fucking sent him wherever they sent him. They come up in a court case at the end that they'd moved him three times before the trial. Also come up, but at least my barrister said that they've been paid 20 grand expenses as that come up. When we tried to mention that in the court case, the judge shushed everyone, sent the jury out before it came up and said that can't be, that's expenses. So that can't be brought up. So, because there were a few lies told in the court case, do you know what I mean?

1:04:58And that's about the size of it. Just a big fuck up. Yeah, madness, isn't it? Just a fuck up.

1:05:04Danny Harkins: Do you think it was a good thing that happened at the right time? Or you were sparring out of control? I remember my co-D, one of my co-Ds and me were right next to each other. He was a brutal, brutal man. Too much. And, you know, no empathy. Not very nice. I don't like him. You know. None of us were violent. Most of us weren't violent for the sake of it. Do you know what I mean? But he was a very sadistic kind of guy. We took one guy out of the woods who worked for us. and fucked off a load of money and broke his fucking forearm pushed his ribs through jaw collapsed like it was in a sock hanging there done his knee not his knee his shin literally pushed his ribs through with the back as fucking as you know it was like being held together at the end of it and had we done for that you know what I mean it would have been fucking or something like that yeah because that weren't like an isolated incident so you'd probably get 16 you know or have you get caught with things you're not supposed to get caught with or have you end up having to shoot someone you know it could have been a lot worse I knew I knew I was probably lucky because I was going off the rails pieing too much colliding forces were coming together it's all starting to unravel do you know what I mean I'll be spending money out of control just probably because one action in a very good place I was going through the divorce and you know between the girl I wanted to be with and that all the pressure of everything else was actually alright until that coming along and all of a sudden I remember my mate I had a guy working for me big massive mixed race guy full rack of gold teeth half his ear missing Mars bar fucking nose missing looked like a James Bond's villain's bodyguard but it was actually safe as you're like.

1:07:03He was the one who'd calm everything down. And he'd drive me about. I had like a brand new 7 Series different cars. He'd drive me about and kind of act like

1:07:14well, if there was trouble, I've got him with me. I'm there, yeah. Yeah. Not what I need it, but you never know. He's just there all the time. And I started drinking. I started drinking. drinking. I thought, right, I'm going to get drunk tonight. I'm going to have a party so you can kick your wits about you.

1:07:31Danny Harkins: How would someone explain you? How would someone's looking in now going, Danny Arkins, mid-30s, before he got banged up, earning cash everywhere, serving up... I've had different lives. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but someone looking in must be like, is he a proper nuisance? I was a proper fucking nuisance, yeah. I'd have unmarked police cars outside of the gym. I'd come out, take the piss. Because I thought, well, you're not going to catch me around anything. And things like that, you know, fucking, every other day of the week someone's getting hurt you know even me sending someone doing it myself if I turned up I had a temper and I'd feel so I've got these debt collectors here and I'd kind of feel debt collectors can be hard work half the time they're doing too much coke they're getting a bit big for their boots and I thought I'll show you lot what levels of fucking madness are you know because I mean at one point I was getting them boxing lessons I thought I was running a little squad you lot can't fight good enough how many men do you have jabbing each other with steroids I'm one guy we got him on he's a big biker and he's not big enough he's fucking jabbing his ass for steroids and we actually had a guy coaching and boxing it was fucking off key really it's comical you can make a carry on film about it at peak Dan how many men did you have wrapped around you that you could call upon right so you've got someone making the calls driver picks up money one or two drivers brings off there's a go-between between a house and there

1:09:16someone good at cooking someone

1:09:23trying to think person medicals would have kept tabs and everything and everyone else you've got your free debt collectors I'd like what I call the fixer a problem you go smooth over but it was a heavy guy himself so every one of those men were violent capable people so all of them really probably a few more I've missed out and then what are you talking

1:09:50Danny Harkins: 15 a pool of 15 20 lumps no more Circle 10 But then you've got like That's the inner circle Then you've got like 100 odd guys working Around it That you're looking after Yeah So You can call on half of them Yeah Because half of them Are like pals And your friends as well So yeah And when you say pals and stuff When you got banged up Did you find that Everyone just like Everyone just dispersed Or was there people Who stayed in contact As a good close friend When you were inside Both Yeah Most people forget about you When you go to jail Yeah 100 % How many people stuck with you? When I come out of jail, I reckon every day, lunch and dinner, I had someone take them out for lunch and dinner.

1:10:30It felt like the first two months, endlessly. And I was on my arse, proper on my arse, because I'd been spending every fucking penny I'd been making. At one point, if I earned 10 grand a week, I'd spend 15 grand a week. If I earned 15, I'd spend 20. And I hadn't been like that. I'd been really good. you know I think I'd like 80 83 cars on the forecourt at one point you know gym sweet shop, gelato place up there cafe you know but last year when I started unraveling I just started spending everything just spending I just have been in shops every day you know and and that tends to be when I went to jail found out that was the trend with everyone any serious people they all unraveled at the end or spent like very very few would I can't think of anyone who put their money away they all had some kind of problem whether it be gambling drugs most only everyone some form of addiction even the top top boys yeah yeah yeah right or sometimes gambling with it that'd be a bad thing yeah sex addiction yeah and that normally goes with a coke yeah and whatever they had the people around them would be fighting over yeah when they went away even their family even if I had brothers.

1:11:50Danny Harkins: Did you ever come across any families that you shouldn't have come across while you're doing everything? An accident might have happened somewhere. Oh no, I'm messing with the wrong people here.

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1:14:16um not really like there's there's well i know at least two of the big groups working with were very very dangerous very very dangerous but they weren't like uh

1:14:33household names didn't really meet many of them until I went to jail really more or less and you know you meet people in jail don't you most of that most of that the big families now have done as well they're not what they were you know because the police have just crushed them absolutely crushed them the sentences they give out to those type of family members it's fucking horrendous once they get a name yeah they just bird them off set them up yeah but without mentioning any names i can think of one family in particular good people you know and

1:15:15unbelievable 30 years behind the door yeah i'd break anyone do you mean what's prison like for you uh prison for me was um a place where i slowed down um i've been 100 mile an hour it was hard because when i went in there were two sides me you know there's the all the madness yeah there's very much the side of me wanted to stop it just met the new girl and wanted a normal life and um and i was doing quite well you know i crafted all my businesses i crafted crafted You know, from when I was fucking 16, I left school, I was working in fucking shithole factories, 70-odd, eight hours a week. You know, I've always grafted.

1:15:59You know, just from when I get up to when I go to bed, I'll be grafted, like working in the businesses, writing business plans, dealing with managers, you know. So when you go to jail, you don't lose it all at once. You lose it bit by bit. You'll be on the phone she misses every day. And she's just got to have bad news because she's got her own life. and her own kids own little business and she's trying to run all yours and she's trying like fuck but you know so after a while you lose one business right and money starts going missing or people start misbehaving who work for you yeah um then another business another year later another one and three years in you're still holding on yeah and really by the time I left there was only one left that's a shitty little sweet shop which I'll give it to my wife she's like moaning how many years did you do in the end four and a half of the five but what I did four and a half of the nine four and a half of the nine you do half your nine when I went in I slowed right down and I made a conscious decision to stop everything right because obviously everyone wanted to keep things down nope stop all now and I had screws knocking the door who I really want to get involved you, you know, say my training's coming, I'd like screws open the door at fucking 8 o 'clock at night, training's coming, put them straight to you, and they're letting you know, you know, like to get involved with you, and I said, it's not how I'm, I appreciate that, it's not how I'm doing my bird, I'm just going to read my books, no stress, and come out, I got obsessed with reading, like obsessed, all started with reading.

1:17:42Danny Harkins: How many hours you looked up for? I was made number one on the wing almost straight away at Winston, no, Bullendon, and just like everyone else, my name circulated quite quickly, a bit of argy-bargy when I first came in, which made people very aware, you know, don't fuck about, and I went down to the library, right, and the course is not available and um i'd always read boxing biographies always so the one that i'd be reading a boxing biography or a crime book and um i used to like the old period bbc you know like uh classics like i don't know weather and heights or whatever you know just a couple of what far from the madding crowd i really like that and um the girl i was in she loved the fucking classic loved the books she's always reading the book and um I was really impressed by that because most of the birds I've been out of airheads airhead strippers I mean and as well she's trying to better herself yeah she works hard and she better herself and run the house well so but that fact that she was reading books to better herself really impressed me and um so we both had a shared love of these classics so I'm looking at the books I'm not joking I'm like intimidated by these books she's on staring for like 10 minutes, never get one.

1:19:13By the time I got around to picking one, one that I'd already read before, not read before, one that I'd already watched the BBC version of it. And I didn't understand, Dodge, I didn't understand a fucking single word. Well, I remember I'd highlight any words that known. The first 17 words, 17, 20 words I didn't know. That means that whole page doesn't make sense. So I've got it on the phone, can you send in some stationery? Can you send in, you know, some books and whatnot? And I'm writing down every word I don't know with something to do, right? Writing loads of letters, and I'm writing down all these fucking words I don't know.

1:19:48And after about 20 pages, oh, I can read the book now, because these authors, you know, Emmy Bronte or Dickens or whoever, they use the same words after a while. So, go to 20 pages and you've done it, oh, I can read the book now. Next thing I'm getting there is sending The Economist and the financial times and all the rest of it. I'm just reading from when I get up, I go to bed with a few burpees in between and a bit of weights. And then I've done maths, English. I've done 30 courses. So you made prison

1:20:17Danny Harkins: the best you possibly could? Yeah. And I found my protective instinct come out. I didn't like to see all the bullying going on the wing. I was probably a little bit naive. I was probably a bit lucky. I didn't get fucking stabbed, really. How much violence is there in prison? What you saw? Fucking horrendous. Give me an example. Right. I'll give you an example of why first, right? So you've got all these good prison officers who are experienced, a lot of them are ex-forces, right? And then, I can't remember his name, some minister comes in and cuts the budget. They decide to cut the budget massively.

1:20:47Get rid of half the fucking staff. Yeah. Right? We think we can run these wings on less, more bang up. Yeah. So what's going to happen? The violent incidents go through the fucking roof. Right? They realise, oh, we made a mistake. But they probably didn't really make a mistake. Because you think about it, the old crews were on a lot more money. Someone like George Shipton. Yep.

1:21:06Danny Harkins: That's the only thing they need to bring back into the system. And go, hold on, we need to train these people up. Do you remember George Shipton? I remember the name. He'd been on the podcast. He was, he was, he was been, I think he was in charge for like 15, 20 years. Yeah, prison service. Proper good bloke. I would love to have a chat. Proper good bloke. Watch the episode on it, mate. It's amazing. It's got massive views. All the, all the comments are amazing. I'm very, he's a prison officer who people liked. Yeah. Yeah. Because you speak with them. You do. A lot of the time, we would get on well with the old school prisoners.

1:21:37The younger ones were scared. They didn't have a clue. And that fear causes problems, right? You'd have a lot of us, a hard nut life, who would say, prison ain't safe now. Of course, there's prisoners. Want it to be safe. Because if we've got to do 20 years here, we might get fucking killed or stabbed to death. So, you cut the prison thing, the amount of prison officers, then all of a sudden, okay, we've made a mistake. We'll get new ones in. But the new ones aren't on the same wages. Yeah, I agree. They're not on the same wages as the old ones are. They've got anywhere they can. The old ones are ex-forces and they've had that experience.

1:22:07So all of a sudden you've got players with no experience looking after a load of fucking lunatics. So there's going to be a lot more violent incidents. Most of the people, gel, do not want to be involved in that. They just want to get through their bird. But you're going to get the ones in there who do. Right? Want to make a name for themselves. Busy on the wings. Obviously they're selling the spice. People don't pay back. They're going to get bashed up. which is fair enough if you ask me what actually what actually is spice I don't really know it's like a synthetic drug is that the one everyone just bent over double like 90 degrees oh mate I see some horrendous horrendous stuff

1:22:42Danny Harkins: yeah the spice stacks are so horrendous so I remember it was three guys really fucking lovely guys nice guys and they're all chatting in the ring and someone's giving them a loaded spice joint so they'd load up real heavy knowing what they were doing ten minutes later these guys are on the floor and they're in the weirdest position there's like screaming talking like panicking like someone's in front of them and you know like at least one of them one of them was an old old life I've been for a load of armed robberies and serious guy he's a joke now yeah and uh but I thought they were gonna die yeah it's the worst I've seen people smash their heads how are they taking it they smoke it they smoke it I mean they can bring it in uh you know we're sending it in a lot of time on a letter and then they started photocopying your letters so that stop that they can fly them to the windows on the drones, pass it in on a visit.

1:23:34But it can be so easy and so cheap and make fortunes out of it. But it causes a lot of misery. Sad, isn't it?

1:23:42Danny Harkins: And is that because it's out of your system straight away? Like you can take it? I don't know if it's in your system. No, because you get drug tests and if you fail a drug test, then you... Another 30 days? No. If you fail a drug test, say you want to get to DCAT. I knew I wanted to get to DCAT. And I got to university from DCAT. and um you know i kicked out of the school i went to so i was quite proud of that but i knew like that i want to see my family yeah once i'm a decat i've got access to see my family properly you know what i mean yeah and uh so i made sure i behaved for the most part do you mean if you fail a drug test then that's why you think for six months you can't get a decat so you've got i think six months clean of adjudications so the sensible people right are all doing it like that.

1:24:29Do you know what I mean? You ever meet any top boys, that's how they're doing, they're doing a bit of education, they're reading their books, they're going through it nice and quiet and they make it decat. Did you see any massive kick-offs at Canteen? Yeah. I remember the sea, what is it sea? I can't remember. The bird that's in charge of the wing. Yeah. She had a bit of a thing for me and she'd like press into me and like, so I was number one on the wing and she'd go, I only feel safe when you're here because there's no any screws in it but it's going to go off it's going to go off on the server you've got everyone was she fit?

1:25:02she was alright yeah she went bad mind you I haven't seen women for a while yeah I was going to say yeah maybe I was a bit biased but she was literally pressing me she opened a cell door one night as well she literally opened the fucking cell door on a shadow box on a top of it I was fucking doing about 9-10 rounds of shadow boxing sweating like a fuck and all of a sudden she opened the door as a quiet moment she stepped in and I I actually pointed at my girlfriend's pictures and went, oh right, and she went, all right, and then fucked off, and that was it. But a lot of that goes on as well. Where are you today, Dan?

1:25:38How are you today? Well, to be honest, when I was in jail, I was hell-bent on vengeance. Fucking hell-bent on vengeance. I would read, and everyone I would read would be two parallel ideas for that fucking influence. you know taking people's numbers who you think might do whatever you want them to do and uh you're thinking right i'm gonna get active they're double busy i want fucking vengeance right and i'll get apply myself right so i'm busy as fuck busier than anyone in my town and just apply that vengeance and uh got fucking hateful you know after what happened with um the ex-girlfriend and all that and even leading up that was like ego um angry bitterness and all the books I was written I'd never been in contact with anything nice before my dad was a pretty brutal fucker did your dad used to knock you about or not a little bit yeah probably more than he should have done was he a role model

1:26:46yes and no yeah yes and no um

1:26:53very much yes and very much no you know he could I'd say he was a bit of a narcissist no empathy he used to love reading a lot of history Rome Genghis Khan Stalin is he still with us today? he's kind of heroes yeah have you got a relationship with him? no to be honest I think

1:27:17if I get asked a question I'm going to answer it but I know he had when I've answered questions before like on Ellis podcast I think I think he owes me an apology I think if you smash if you're violent to a little boy when I couldn't defend myself I kind of feel like now but I will have flashbacks like where I go fucking mad I've been even when I was married or in the car and he mentions like steering wheel grip I'll just start going fucking nuts I can be walking in the gym and I'll be walking through the gates and I'll start thinking about that and I'll start going turbo and I'll think calm it down and I can't just suddenly switch off so I'll see people like hello Dan and I can't switch off so um I'll say you know who the fuck were you to hit me and at that age I'll be thinking about any age what you hit me when I was defenseless what inside hand like a right hander or a putter or a putter yeah closed fist at what sort of age would you have been drink your way because you get smacked around the face I think right you've asked me if someone will answer it um I think I would like a fucking apology from your dad and if I don't get an apology then I'm going to have a hump till the day that he dies to say I remember my old man used to say no one time he didn't give me a beating one time and um I said a lie I don't want a lie I can't remember what the lie was it might have been like I didn't do it and he didn't beat me he said don't ever lie son only cowards lie and that fucking stuck with me and I've always been a very very honest guy fucking most honest guy you will ever meet right and I think that really because I thought well if I lie I'm a fucking coward I'm a fucking coward and it was always like you know what are you a fucking man or a mouse you know and if kids were picking me at school it was you know I'd fucking sort it out and so it's very much like a coward is about the worst thing you can be so when's the last time you saw your dad what I'm saying is with being a coward and being a liar right if you can't take accountability that's a form of deceit as well for me because a real man takes accountability if I've done wrong and I know I've done wrong I've got a whole list of people I'd like to apologise to and I remember I end up doing a lot of coke when I come out and went off in a bad direction.

1:29:47And in the end, I started going to CA. I've got my mate. Right, your mate, Ray Bishop. Phone him up, right? I want you to be my sponsor. Get on my case, right? Quality lad, Ray. Quality guy. Yeah, mate. And so they're very big on accountability and honesty at these places.

1:30:07And yeah, you can't be an honest person if you're not accountable when you've done wrong. If you choose to see things through a fucking skewered, rosy-coloured lens, like your shit don't stink and everything you do is wonderful, then you're some kind of cunt. And that's why I believe that. So I like to, if I've been in the wrong... So part of the AA, part of the thing through the 12 steps is... Have you done the 12 steps? I'm doing it. Well done, mate. What step do you want in a minute? One. Okay. It's a step. Appreciate it.

1:30:37Danny Harkins: Yeah, mate. That step four is going to be the one where you'll be able to... I apologise to the people. Did you do it? No, no, I'm not an addict. No, you're a tea towel, aren't you? No. No, no. Well, I think you're a tea towel. God knows. You've asked me that before. You said at the festival. I see you at the festival. At the festival, yeah. Yeah, I'm grafted. I don't drink. Yeah, I'm not a big deal. I'm not an addicted personality. At the moment, I have to be a tea towel because when I come out, it just crept up. Do you know what I mean? I started... But then do you notice when people are using more and more cocaine, the more and more lies come out?

1:31:09Danny Harkins: Yeah. Cocaine and lies linked together. It's because you start letting people down. Yes. Right? It doesn't start like that. Yeah. But after a while... You've got to make an excuse why you're letting them down because you've been on a bender. If you're fucking hanging and you don't answer the phone or you're not where you're supposed to be, you've let people down. I don't like to let people down ever. Same, same. So it's a big part of my value system. So NA and CA and AA... They follow the same book, don't they? I've got the book. so fair play with you mate I'm looking forward I'm actually looking forward to the bit where I write down all the people and that's what actually appealed to me the most writing down names of all the people that I've wronged right and my value system is my value system someone owed me a pound note and they weren't going to pay me back and they intended to bump me and they got clipped around the ear I don't feel bad about that I won't lie to you but like if I've told someone I'm going to be here and I wasn't or I was going to do this for them and I didn't or fucking or whatever I've got to say it's just triggered something to me just remembered I think it must have been about a month ago or three weeks ago you went online and said I've just relapsed yeah and I watched that and my respect went through the roof I really appreciate that for a bloke to film myself I relapsed last night and you owned the whole space I'll tell you why as well right so I've started to get a fairly big following it's up around 40 ,000 and also I've got to say as well I'd never met him before but I like him Paul Venice I love him and did a little video saying, fair play to Danny for doing that match respect.

1:32:42Danny Harkins: Like, it was powerful. Do you know what? When I first saw Paul online, I remember I thought, I like the way he presented himself. And he introduced himself as, I'm an addict. But he hasn't been an addict for 12 years, but that's how they identify as once an addict as an addict. And he got this massive, muscular guy, hard as nails, fighting on the BKFC, smashing life. and he's identified like that. I thought, fucking respect you. And that must give addicts a lot of hope. So as well as social media... Well, it's honesty, isn't it? It's honesty. It's accountability, honesty, and it's like, this is who I am, this one.

1:33:21Danny Harkins: Absolutely. So you get more respect that way. Absolutely. So I felt I was getting a lot of people message me. Obviously, I was doing a lot of training videos, a lot of motivational videos online. And the amount of people would phone me up to say they're struggling with either depression or drug use. Yeah. Right. And I would never lie about it. But I felt like, well, I'm putting it out there like, you know, I'm this, I'm that, or I'm healthy and that. And I thought, it feels like a lie. Yeah. You know, even though people ask, I say, yeah. And in my way, I'd be honest online, if you'd see me out messing up and messing about and being silly, so it was obvious.

1:33:57But I thought, I need to put this out there because I want people to know, you know I do fuck up and I've just fucked up and I don't want to fuck up anymore I also thought by doing that it'd make me accountable but I don't do it again yeah do you know what I mean and it weren't the last time yeah I've done it one more time since yeah okay and it was the worst one ever I was up for I went I got up on the Friday Friday morning and I went to bed Monday night oh dear and um you know I've fucking I've gone psychotic boozing as well yeah just coke just coke sex some girl came up from London just got on it and we just got more and more gear around and just got on the phone more and more gear and just non-stop and just didn't want to sleep and I've never done it to that extreme before and it scared the life out of me also if I say I'm not going to do something and I keep doing it then there's a problem right that's an addict so fucking I literally like and I'm in some places where people might regularly offer me something and I was saying no no oh well I'll have a drink and what's it mean straight whiskey whiskey on the rocks so once you've had two or three then you're going to say yes to everything else so I thought I'm going to get it fucking tattooed like I don't drink or something I don't get it tattooed and I found my mate on a session and here's how mad I was I'd gone into fucking psychosis really and I was fucking jumping in the ice baths like still high like pulled over to try and get my head straight fucking rather than just going to sleep you know and fucking talking out loud like a fucking lunatic I thought so I was how long ago how long ago was that it wasn't long ago at all a few months back a few months

1:35:40Danny Harkins: and have you been clean tints eh have you been clean tints yeah I've got it tattooed are you at point now again I'm never going to touch drink and cocaine 100 % listen put it there I don't this is this is this is live yeah I wish you all the best on that yeah I don't You're a better man without booze and cocaine. You don't need it. You're a character. Every one at the peak, I was a T-Total. When I had the five limited companies, I was a T-Total. It's the only one that used cocaine. Yeah, you found it. Yeah, I don't think having a nice glass of wine evening is a problem. So one day, I might go back to that.

1:36:15But at the moment, I know I need like six, seven, eight months off even other drinks. There's no temptation. I'll just stay off it. Yeah. We're shook on it now. Well, listen, I was a T-Total. No, no, no.

1:36:25Danny Harkins: We're just shook on it. We have. So that's for life. I was a T-Total for 15 years. yeah quality so I don't think it'd be a problem I think sometimes say you've got like my missus ain't got a problem with it she's good as gold she turned up at the CA meetings with me she's right let's get down here fair play and she's a good girl do you enjoy the meetings yeah really like because at first it was like I don't fucking need to be here because I still hit the gym I'll still do this but you start to listen to the stories and they talk about cocaine psychosis everyone and you think oh now I know what that is do you know what I mean and then they talk about letting people down and lying and you can even though they might have gone a lot further with it you can identify but for me personally I would not want to live my life not being in control of everything I do and my actions yeah good for you and I think like I say I put that out there because so many people will phone me I've had loads of ex-forces guys phone me like and they're all suicidal sometimes and they let you know and you're starting to phone to them and you think, well, really, if I've built up a bit of influence, then I've got to be a force for good.

1:37:37Yeah, absolutely. And it's very much, with all the bad that I did before, I very much think about the skills. Yeah. And I think... Give back. Yeah, by the time I get to the pearly gates, I hope I'll have done a lot more good than bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a lot of bad, so I very much want to set that right. And I think I'm glad, I'm fucking glad that I stumbled into addiction because I think the best thing I'll ever do will be to help people out of that. And if you've got a big platform and that's growing, then that's got to be something I can do.

1:38:10Makes me feel good, keeps me accountable, and it does make you feel good. Yeah, of course it makes you feel good.

1:38:15Danny Harkins: And people will look up to you as well if you're clean and you want to just be straight. So you look at people like Ray and Paul, they're helping people. there's loads my mate Chris Booth you know I see his thing online I thought I like you I like what you do and you identify with each other because similar traits but all of us have been there we've all done a lot of bad all of us and every one of us is doing good are firmly in that lane where we want to make sure kids don't go down that dark road and especially use your platform in the right way for people to influence people around you to help I think you've got a responsibility I think to do that.

1:38:56And I think addiction is such a problem now. I think... Addiction's a horrible thing.

1:39:01Danny Harkins: I've been around addiction for years, years and years and years. I get it. I see it. I know it. I've been in the nightclub world for all the years, the festival world. I get it. I see it. And you see very, very capable people fall apart. 100%. Yeah, people who've made it. It normally comes back down to money after all that. It's all down to money as well, which is a horrible thing. That's a whole new subject to talk about. But just before we finish up here, tell me about Punch Bunch, your boxing event. Yeah, it's a great event. It really is. And I love it. Who do you have there this year? I've got Frankie Gavin coming.

1:39:32The one you've just done? Oh, the one I've just done. We always get... You have Marcus Redwood down there. Marcus Redwood, good mate of mine. Love Marcus. Love Marcus. Daniel Pogger, brilliant guy. Sword of the Earth. We had Kev Lane, another great guy. Great guy, yeah. Top guy. Joe Egan. Yeah, Joe. Kev Lane, another guy out there. Kevin Lane's doing good stuff. Good stuff. And he's got a great drink as well. yeah yeah a great drink we were on his podcast it was absolutely wasted I said I'm not drinking and then the other ones next to me are all drinking three of them and they're fucking pissed and I'm sober I thought so all four of them were pissed I thought I'm going to have to muck in here

1:40:07Danny Harkins: I remember he bought a bottle he bought two bottles yeah try that I remember doing it on set when we were filming and bang Jesus Christ yeah and listen there's a guy who's done about 20 years by the door for something he didn't fucking do and most people would mentally fall apart there'd be nothing left of them up here and he's so happy and so he's got good energy about him yeah really good energy and I think everyone can see that and that inspires people because we've got a lot of mental health I think people well he's done 20 years saying he didn't do and if he can be happy then fuck me we've got to be happy and that's the sort of thing so we had Joe Egan he does all the shows Joe I think Marcus is back we've got Kev Lane back on the next one as a judge this time what's the date what's the date of the next one 19th September 19th September yeah I've got Paul Venice refereeing on this one.

1:40:55Whereabouts? That's in the same place. But we're going bigger and everything. I've just reached out to Luke Dyson because he's the name at the moment. So I've reached out to him hopefully he gets back. Do you know what I did on the other day who I thought was

1:41:11Danny Harkins: a really nice stat is Big Stacks. Oh Big Stacks yeah yeah yeah. Mate take away all the bravado. I wasn't sure about having him on the show I'll be honest. No I'm sure. I'm sure. Actually do you know what I take for people I don't listen to what people think of people I don't know he's a nice guy he's a really nice he gets a lot of stick he gets a lot of stick but I think things are turning a little bit I think so I don't think he should have done that fight no because he didn't need to because the whole joke is but he did need to because he got paid well he got paid well yeah and I know that no he didn't get paid well did he not not as much as you should have been no okay well maybe that fight he's going to have with is it Jordan who's the other fella what I would say is the other fella had a fight and lost and I think big stacks and I think it's Jordan I think it's from Manchester or something they're going to get together on the misfits what I would say is you know he's created this persona he made it clear to everyone he was only mucking them out so after a while I spoke to Paul Venice about this but then he got on the phone and said it's a joke but everyone quickly realised it was a joke that he don't think he's the oldest man at all and he said that so because everyone knew it was a joke and they're buying into the fun of it and he is a funny guy and you know he didn't need to have a fight so I don't think I think he can do well without that do you know what I mean because he just needs to channel his energy because he's actually a fun he's actually a fun lad and boxing takes a lot a lot of time you've got to put years into it Danny where can people find you mate Instagram mostly yeah if you want to get into the boxing room or people can reach out on DMs and stuff yeah we're running a boxing club at the moment as well me and Henry Castle Steve Smith three of us so if I want to get on the show I'll learn the box yeah simple stuff mate really appreciate you coming on lovely dodge I've really enjoyed it me too yeah same really enjoyed this one I made a promise you've made a promise good man Danny take care mate you too cheers bell hi guys I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did can you do us a favour and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show cheers guys

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