Ask Dodge #1. Why Most Businesses Fail

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1:13So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Welcome to Ask Dodge. I'm an entrepreneur who's built five businesses over the last 28 years, exited two of them, and still running three today. On this show, you'll get straight-talking, real business chat with no fluff.

1:52I think we're going to help thousands of people in business. I've got my good mate with me, Marky Masters, who's going to be the co-host of the show. Dodge, looking forward to this. If there's something you guys want us to answer, send your questions to askdodge at dodgewoodle.com. I hope you enjoy, everyone. Welcome, listeners, and welcome to Ask Dodge. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? That's a good question, Marky. I feel like we're doing this new show within our show because I feel like we can help so many people you know I've done I've done 350 episodes and every time I talk to someone on any of the episodes whether it's a do a business or entrepreneurship or whatever I get so many messages coming through can you talk more about entrepreneurship rather than just being the host I say just being the host but actually being the host to all these different conversations i'm having whether it's sas whatever it may be superstars criminal underworld ex-policemen whistleblowers whatever and then anytime i do this do the business and entrepreneurship everyone just wants more so why don't we just create our new show where people can just email in and we can just have amazing chats and you can fire questions and me and you can have a chat about business and life and we give people more yeah added value added value i know we're going to start off with.

3:11We're going to start off with today's topic, this show's topic, is around starting from zero. And that's what Dodger and myself are going to chat around. And many people don't fail because their ideas started badly. They failed because they didn't start. I'm going to take you back to summer 2020. Summer 2020, okay. So I'd kick my children out of the bedroom so I could store toilet rolls. And you said to me, I'm going to start a podcast. And if we're talking about starting from zero, there was an idea where you had no track record or experience in. I guess a nice way to kind of set this series up and running is why did you decide at the time in summer 2020 to say, I'm going to give a podcast a go.

4:09I think what it was back then, obviously my businesses over the years have always been about people. Whether it's the nightclub world for 10 years, throwing lots of parties, and then going from inside a venue to then going outdoors was a massive step from 2008 to 2020 when my festival wasn't allowed to be put on. It was illegal to be put on in the UK when the pandemic hit. And I was like, right, I've got to think quickly here. how can I still put smiles on people's faces and bring people together and what's happening with culture at the moment and all I kept hearing was this word called podcast podcast podcast and in 2020 there wasn't very many podcasts in the UK most people didn't really know what a podcast was and certainly wasn't really listening to it massive in America or it's a lot bigger than in America it's been going since like 2005 and it was the entrepreneur in me was like what's the next move for me in business and the next move for me in business was to look at going online so I remember one of the members of staff who did love podcasts was like why don't you do your own podcast I was like what does that entail what does it look like what have I got to do what I've got to buy what what does it entail what what are the next steps let's go for it and they knew I knew lots of people so I brought lots of faces on because all events based then wasn't it Well, it started off as Eventful Entrepreneur.

5:37Yeah. And the idea behind that was I'm an entrepreneur and I'm in the event space. So it sounded like a good name, Eventful Entrepreneur. And then it was getting events, festival owners in, and it was getting sports stars in and England players. And just my mates, really. It was. But I went in there with the attitude of I've got nothing to lose. Because I can see that when you're talking about this, is that if the theme is, if you're listening and it's starting something, when you don't have that background and track knowledge, what you kind of shared there is then it aligned with my space. So I was already a part of the thing that I enjoyed, bringing people together, the events that were happening, what you become known for within the Bournemouth 7s in that space.

6:23And then I'm going to take this now from what I value and I'm now going to create a podcast. Did that make it easier by saying, this is my space, these are all the people that I know, and I'm now going to put it into a podcast. Was that easier because you had already built a space, you just didn't have the medium to deliver it? Well, people around me who were in podcasting world, I'd say, what are your thoughts? They're like, go for it. Give it a go. I think it'd be fantastic. Great, to see what happens. What they all said to me was stick to a niche, stick to a niche, stick to a niche. And I'm well connected.

6:58And for me to stick to a niche was really difficult. So with that niche of being then just event people? Event people or festival owners or promoters or DJs or anything in that sort of world. But I had such a bigger world to invite onto the podcast. I was like, quite enjoying this. Why don't I invite him on? Why don't I invite her on? And it opened up a whole world. Then I wasn't niche. I never wanted to be niche. I couldn't think of anything worse than having the same conversation with different people about the same subject. What felt good though, when you started, what felt good to keep going?

7:34If you go back to where you kind of started to pick up the reins of all this, without seeing the results, what felt good with you at the start? It felt good because I was having amazing conversations with people, fascinating people who have lived eventful lives. That felt good to me. Like I was sitting down for an hour and a half and leaving here going, wow, I've learned something new or I've given value back to that person. This is great. But going back to anyone who's starting anything, there's lots of people out there procrastinating and just go, one day I will, one day I will, one day I will.

8:02Before you know it, they're 16, 17, and they haven't actually done it. So they're going to have regret. What's the point of having regret when you can take a bit of risk? And I think back then, I didn't really get much feedback because we were only on Apple and Spotify. So no one could leave comments. You could leave a review on Apple, but the chance of someone leaving a review wasn't a big thing. It wasn't, it was a bit, you had to go out of your way a bit more to leave a review. Like if you're leaving a, you see people leave reviews on restaurants and bars and hotels. Normally, most people go out of their way to leave a review if they're cheesed off about something, you know.

8:36And because we were just on the audio platforms and we weren't on the visual platforms, like the visual platforms are your TikTok and Instagram and LinkedIn and YouTube. We weren't on them for two years. So I was doing this podcast in the hope that people were liking it. And it's okay with your mate saying, God, that's good, Dodge. And your family saying, that's great. But we weren't getting full-on feedback for the amount of people that were listening. And what I made sure was I didn't want to know the amount of people listening because I know it would be your mum, your dad, your best mates and doing it.

9:10And then it kind of grew from there. But you have to start somewhere. And if you start with zero followers and zero not cluing what you do, that's where the fun is. So as well, picking up on that you just said there, so it's not being derailed by looking at the stats. No. Because we're always driven via a dashboard that says… Yeah, but you can't, Mark. You can't look at the stats, mate. You can't. Business. This is a business. When I started, I didn't realise it was a business. I just thought it was two people chatting. But over the last five years, Facebook are paying you. TikTok are paying you.

9:42YouTube are paying you. Like, it's turned into a business, but it wasn't meant to be a business. But I treated it like a business because, for me, I just wanted to get through three years and then see what happens. You know, my thousand day rule, I always talk about, trying to break the back of something after a thousand days. So it wasn't, you weren't getting, like in anything in entrepreneurship, you have to promote yourself. You can't wait for someone to be promoting. You can't wait for people, you can't wait for people clapping you when you're working every single day. And that's why this word everyone keeps talking about is consistency.

10:16In my word, it's just graft. Coming back the next day, when people aren't clapping you, you've got to be clapping yourself. I guess as well. And other words, I've got another letter to pick up on that as well. You just kind of highlighted there. It's around curiosity. And the reason things have progressed is just having this innate curiosity, not just in terms of the guests and the people that you have, but how you learn a skill and you build from that thing of curiosity. the question coming to is are you led a lot of the time by strategy or is curiosity helped lead your thinking over the years curiosity wins all day long for me why is that just because i've been curious since a kid i was always the one at school asking the questions because i didn't know the bloody answers i was always the one who found it hard at school to try to learn something and regurgitate it back on a piece of paper as an exam i just it didn't work with me i grew up living in pubs as you know in London and I've just run adults the whole time and I was just curious about everything how who when why what's he doing there how does he do that what is it what do you do for a living how do you and that was from a young age you know to 10 you know roll on god knows how many decades later I'm doing exactly the same thing I'm being paid to do it on a podcast being curious do you think that skills knocked out of people though that thing of following because you always have to be right and what you're saying there is that you don't have to It's okay to ask questions.

11:42But with people that are trying to start something, that's obviously a tricky place because they're led by their industry or what other people are doing. And you're saying, I started this because I just didn't know where it would end. And if I was led by my own curiosity, I can figure it out as I go along. Naivety in business is a superpower. Naivety is a superpower. Curiosity is a superpower. but people don't talk about this. Your naivety, for you to go and start something and not follow a journey that someone else is doing in front of you, thinking, well, if I copy them, really copy them, this is what I've got to do.

12:19Not knowing is beautiful. And that's exactly what happened in setting up the festival world, setting up the student nightclub world in my 20s and then the 30s in the festival world and now the podcasting world. Just do it your way. You can get snippets of what people are doing ahead of you, but just do it your style and your way, whatever business you're going into. because i kind of this is the thing i'm picking up of what we're chatting about here is that you can find this is the kind of uh uh that help is that find something that you know that you cannot stop yes because it wasn't as though i guess it wasn't a case of i'm gonna do five episodes and i'm gonna bank it and then i'm gonna come back in two months time i guess i'm for anything i guess the lesson for everyone is is if there is something that we want to get up and running that we show and interest in, we have to start something that we know we can come back to again and again.

13:12Again, every single day. Because if you don't do something you enjoy, you can only take it so far in business. And that's why I'm seeing, as we know, 90 % of businesses fail, like a high percentage fail after the first three years and then five years. Because if you don't absolutely love something, there's going to be so many days you get out of bed and go, oh, I can't be bothered today. But that's when discipline kicks in of doing the stuff you don't want to do on the days you don't want to do it, but you go and do it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, that is what gets you out of bed. But if you have something that you feel that you are growing, but actually deep down when the days are tough and it's grey outside and you've got to go and graft on something, there's going to be a point where you go, I've had enough.

13:51I'm jacking this in. And that's the bit, you know, that's the bit when you jack it in, you go, I want to find another shiny new object. And so many people try to find shiny new objects when launching businesses. You'll go there for a couple of years you see your mate doing something over there and you see someone doing cryptocurrency and do someone doing a sass business you're thinking i could do a bit of that and i could do a bit of that you've lost your focus because that comes to what you're saying there is the role it serves for an audience yeah so you have something that you're you're interested in that's relevant to an audience who can stand with you i kind of i think i'm picking up on here with this thread around that the audience comes afterwards it's like from your side there you was saying like I wasn't driven by stats and there and if they weren't opened for people to leave comments but when you start you do it because there is a willingness and you want to learn you know there could be an opportunity a little bit further down the line and then the audience comes do you look at it that way because a lot of people are driven around you got to build this audience you got to do this but it may as you said that you may run out of steam or just it's left then it's just left there is do you look at it that way that that the audience comes after definitely you've put the hours yeah definitely because you have to think well I certainly do whether it was building the sportswear brand or whether it was building the business we have I felt the same way about this but the amplification that you have with a podcast is off the charts because people are now whatsapping their mates have listened to this episode everyone's listened well, a lot more people listen to podcasts now than they were five years ago.

15:28So people normally, what happens is they get a podcast they like and they'll put it on their mate's WhatsApp group. Lads, have a listen to this. Girls, have a listen to this. And it infiltrates the UK like that. And when I first started, I was just making sure my area knew about it. Regional, where you lived. Regional, yes. Because I knew you can't just jump in and become national straight away, whatever business you do. It's a lot easier now that there is social media. don't get me wrong because you can become a global business very very quickly right now which is wonderful and that's why there's such opportunity for entrepreneurs now to launch businesses because you can become global you can keep a lifestyle business where you're under 10 staff and that's my that is my sweet spot it's being under 10 staff in any of the businesses and becoming a global business but going back to the point here Marky with the podcast I just made sure that all my mates know whether all your mates want to listen to your podcast or not it's a different thing you don't know whether they're gonna listen to it or not they're just giving you the thumbs up saying well done mate good work they won't listen to it they might not listen to it and then what happens is if you put out some a good content it just gently infiltrates so you start from your Bournemouth and pool and then it might just drift up to Oxford might just to southwest London if you're doing a but then it starts drifting and then all of a sudden people are just whatsapping around the uk and people are now due to um youtube it changes everything because i think youtube i've had 65 66 67 million viewers watching your face on their tellies or on their phones and then youtube has got this great um part of it that's quite easy to share to people via whatsapp and quite easy to share by people by social media as well because this is quite an interesting thing you say um by saying how you can build something organically and i guess it's okay now when you look at the stats of the show and the listenership but sometimes addressable an addressable audience beats sometimes going super big quickly when you say that i start from my friends and people i know and they can it can gradually build from there what have been some of the big successes uh if somebody was starting something whatever it is a creative endeavor whether it is an audio a video or writing or whatever it is a business side when are the moments that somebody would see where it works is it the fact that more people are joining it that is beyond money by the way that is beyond revenue where where would people see where they know what they're doing is gradually working for me it would be your first ever sale and people kind of miss this conversation because you get your first sale you go I want my second sale my third sale whatever business you're doing your first sale is key knowing like entrepreneurs must be absolutely mental to become entrepreneurs that you're there with your mate having a pint you come up with an idea and to put that idea and turn that into reality is massive so anyone out there who's got a business massive respect to you because you would have had an idea that normally my ideas come along when something's not working.

18:41I'm like, something's really cheesing me off about that. I think there's a gap in the market there. That's when you know you've got an opportunity, but your first sale is the one where you get the buzz from and then you build from there. But you will find out at some point that your business may plateau at some point and it's trying to break that plateau to go from two grand a month turnover because businesses take a long time. Then you start going into 10 months. It might take you a year to hit£100 ,000 turnover. It might take you two years to hit£100 ,000 turnover. But if you are consistent and you are constantly tweaking and improving your brand and you're constantly putting yourself out there as the face of your brand, more people will know you and want to do business with you and your brand and your business.

19:37You know, and it's such a wonderful thing to be an entrepreneur. I don't know any different, Marky. I've never been employed. But have you taken risks that, for instance, things that didn't work or things that just didn't pull? Of course. Of course you throw it out there and see what sticks. But I've never – I've built five brands and business over the last 28 years. We sold two of them, still running three. It's not horrible when you start saying 28. Oh, no, no. A few years ago, I've been 15. Oh, no. I know, mate. It's when I see stuff now and I'm talking that sort of numbers, like, Jesus Christ.

20:10Like you say, you'd normally go, oh, I've done it for 18 years or seven years. But, yeah, it does work your own job sometimes. What would be your kind of supportive arm to someone that says they've got something but they haven't quite crossed the line with it, that they wanted to make it live or let other people see it yet? Where's your advice? Start today. Start today. Be strong-minded and don't care what other people think. the biggest thing holding people back in business is the fear of being ridiculed by your friends oh do you think that holds us back then our own personality and our own insecurities your own belief system your own beliefs of you as a kid of being judged at school about doing something now you've gone and got a job now you're thinking i don't want a job because it's not reliable having a job i want to set up my own business but i've got the fear of setting my own business because i'm putting myself out there that there'll be certain people in your peer group that'd be really supportive of you.

21:04There'll be a number of them that will be supportive. There'll be a number of them that will pretend they don't really care. And there'll be a number of them, a very small amount, maybe, depending on what your circle's like, will be like, they'll be thinking, oh, I don't want him to succeed or her to succeed because I'm in a boring job and I don't want them to succeed. Why do you pick up on this before? Yeah. Why do you say that? Why do you... Because that's what happens. That's what happens. You've got to remember that your tight friends and your family will want you to be successful. What happens on your entrepreneurial journey is when you go and tell someone an idea, everyone will be supportive.

21:45Then you start building, you start getting the social media handles under your name or whatever you can do. Then you go and build your website. Then you go and build your brand logo and you're getting all excited and super excited. And that's the moments that is so joyous. You've got this idea in your mind that you could turn this idea into reality and for it to become a business. But for it to become a business, it has to earn profit. And if it doesn't earn profit, I just see it as someone's doing a hobby. So there's lots of people doing hobbies out there and that's a fair play, but you're trying to break the back of this hobby to turn it into a business that you can employ one or two members of staff.

22:22But what you don't want to be is you'll get to a stage where you're paying for your members of staff, then you're praying at the end of it, have I got enough money to pay myself or anything at the end of it? Then to break the back of that bit, you want to be paying all your staff and then paying yourself a nice dividend at the end of the year, whether that's 30 grand dividend, whether it's 20 grand dividend, whether it's 100 or 150 or 300 grand dividend. You know, there's a big social media market has made a big thing that people should be earning a million pound profit. and everyone's talking these big mega numbers.

22:55These big mega numbers might be people who are VCs, venture capitalists, talking millions and this and that. They might have never run a business before and they're talking these big numbers. They can talk big numbers when they're out in the bar and a restaurant and this and that, but when you actually break people down, I love the go-getters, the entrepreneurs who are building bootstrapped, not the ones who have got an idea then go and raise 500 grand for 40 % of their business. because those lot haven't put the yards in. The hard yards for those people going and get it is the hardest part, is to go and raise the money and raise the capital for it.

23:29That's a job in itself, so respect for that. But you can't be then massively celebrating, going, yeah, I've raised all this money. You haven't built the hard yard. You've got to build the foundation to your business.

23:41My advice to people is start up and be a start up and don't borrow anything if you can. Right, okay. And for that, you build, you build your brand, you build your marketing, you build your channels, you do your homework. And I mean do your homework. You are on the internet 24-7 researching, who's doing what, what's the competition, what does that look like, picking up the phone under different names. Hello, it's Thomas here. Could you give me some detail? How much turnover are you doing last year? You might find someone on the phone who's giving you this information. There might be someone in that office who's giving you information they shouldn't be giving you.

24:17Then you're building a picture up in your head what this business could be. Hey, guys. We've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands. If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three-minute video. We've also left the link below as well. That's what I'm saying. and everything you're talking about here is all about longevity persistence understanding that marketplace that you are a part of and then making that that step forward within that to build from it so question comes down to where where are the winners who are the people like for it like i'm bringing it back to for instance the your podcast so where it started in 2020 to where it is today where do you see where somebody is building something starting something finding traction with it where do you see where the success is is it the fact that they're still they're still running a tight ship is it the fact that there's just more people or is it the fact that they're building a space that people other people want to join in with and they're being listened to or it just works the success is you waking up and going do you know what i'm happy going to work that's success are you happy going to work are you happy building something for you and your family or if you're in your 20s you haven't got a family you're building something for you for your future.

25:43You know, you're not waiting on that monthly salary while your boss, who might just have a mood swing one day and goes, right, I don't want you anymore. And he pays you a month off. And then what? But I think my point here, Mark, is like I'm talking people in startups here, whether you're turning over£100 ,000 or up to £500 ,000. Remember people, only like 3 % or 4 % of people get to a million pound turnover, by the way. Okay. that's really important to say because i think when people are in businesses when they see restaurateurs in business they must be going i must be two million pound turnover 1.5 the margins are so tight across every industry that i know you know if you're doing a million pound turnover if you're lucky to make a profit at the end of the year fair play do you think that's bad for people and distracting because you do see that around a lot what do you mean when you kind of see people when you just you just kind of highlighted there that where the success is is is a lot fewer than people think or anticipate because that can be damaging for people when we're led by numbers you just kind of said there it's quite small and that can knock people when we are when people are looking at the growth of somebody else someone has more subscribers someone has more people in their database someone else has achieved success a lot quickly i just see your advice and how you look at that and whether that would affect somebody's confidence or how you look at that today because there's a lot of puffing our chest out there because of social media yeah there is pros and cons to social media but no one ever puts up a shit day on social media or or on my business i'll tell you what in fact i saw the most beautiful thing yesterday go on this young lady who owns a restaurant in Bournemouth Italian okay my god she put a post up you know you know what I actually want to find this post and I was like I want to invite you on the podcast she's basically a young mum who's trying to run a restaurant and she put up there saying I've just given birth I've got no time with my kid I'm trying to run this restaurant my business rates have gone from 300 quid a month in April they're going to jump out to 800 quid a month me to order all my butter in for this restaurant is normally£10 for all my butter.

28:03It's now, sorry,£20 is now£40. Everything is just doubled. And she put it on this post. I was like, wow, that's the first person I've seen be so honest that her business is on the brink. And she's got so much love because she's real. So I reached out to her and said, well, I want to get in the podcast. How can we promote your brand? Let me break down with you what you're currently going through because I reckon there's a thousand people like you who are currently going through what you're going through. But everyone's too proud to say anything because it's like anything. If you're running a business and it's not doing too well and you're having a meal with your mates or going down the pub with your mates and they're chatting, how's business?

28:39Most people go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And most people go, I'm really busy. What's business like? Yeah, really busy. I know as someone who's been around the block, I know if someone is not making a profit or is really struggling, then how can we help? How can I help? What are you going through at the moment? like there are so many people struggling at the moment because no one has been taught how to be an entrepreneur and how to run a business but do you see that they're trying to work it out themselves do you see that as a good time to start something like you kind of say that it's pretty delicate out there if somebody's little some of the reasons somebody's listened is because they saw the title was started from zero yeah do you still do you see that as a risky thing with the environment that are a part of or do you look at it say well there's never been a better time.

29:22If there's something now and you know there's a role that you can serve... Double-edged sword, mate. Where we are today in the world is very different to where we were five years ago and certainly six, seven, eight, nine, ten years ago, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2018, everyone was booming. I was flying. It was an abundance of cash being around. Everyone was out partying. So you had all the bars busy, all the restaurants were busy, all the clubs were busy. All the bingo halls were busy, your nan and granddad in there. It was just busy. I love the way you got the word bingo in, by the way. You've got to get the old bingo in, yeah.

29:53My good old nan. But my point is there was an abundance of money and there's a lot of exchange of money going on then. And in 2020, it just got zzzz. So if you are starting a business today, you have to be online. You have to be. I know businesses who are, they've got businesses, people who are running businesses. And I'm like, are you online? No, but we've got four big shops. Oh my God, your business rates are going to jump up. your national insurance your employer's tax base is jumping up so everyone you employ you've got to pay 15 % on top your business rates is 50 % you've got to pay 50 % to the council of what your rent is so if your rent is 50 grand a year just for anyone listening out there if your rent is 50 grand a year for a shop you've got to give 25 grand on top 25 grand on top of that to the council and every time you employ someone you'll give the government 15 % on that person's salary okay that's before you before you spend a penny before you bring in any money.

30:51And then before you bring in any money, you've then got to pay 20 % VAT. So before you are making a penny, you've got all these turnover taxes going on. But people aren't taunt this. They're going into business and then finding this out. Where do you see, though, because that's kind of a sobering way to look at it, where do you see the hope? Is it the fact that the abundance of places that you can put your flag in the sand or whatever it is, it doesn't cost much if I'm going to start a podcast, I'm going to do this or I kind of know that if I can build a website, whatever. By the way, I'm not us going down an AI path here, but where you see hope for people, where you do see where there is opportunity, where we can be nimble and quick that probably hasn't been around before, that we can do, that we can take advantage of what's in front of us.

31:44I think what people are craving for right now is because everything has become so fake online. Artificial intelligence. That's basically, everything's fake. You can get all your answers. It's great. Don't get me wrong. It's got some good things as well. But I don't know what's real and what's not real at the moment. I'm watching clips of stuff. People want humans. People want human connection, Mark. And human connection is by live events. We've lost that. we've lost the we've lost the love of people getting up and dancing singing being with their mates you know people have become so insular over the last five years that they're staying at home some people have got anxiety they don't even want to go out the house let me give you that i got an anecdote for that you ready for this talking about people not wanting to go and i discovered this in 2020 2021 so we uh so with the you of the media community we did live shows in the theater so we We turned the theatre into giant Zoom screens, right?

32:47And nobody turned up. Everyone was on Zoom. And for that first time, I realised nobody needed to go out. And that's where we are today. Nobody has to. So the things that we do where we're stepping our best foot forward with, it has to be really, really good. Because we know we have choice now and we can choose to step into the space or we can choose not to. so whatever we're building whatever we're trying to put our heart and soul into the world is a kind is a topsy-turvy place but we have to create something for people that they want to join in with and be a part of a bit like a podcast or a festival that we have as well anyone listening out there wherever you are listening in the country go and support your local festival go and support your local festival because it's important you will have the weekend of your life a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to go to a festival go in two, three days, let your hair down and forget everything, all the troubles you got for three days and go and meet new people and have new conversations Here's the thing I'm learning from this conversation as well is that we're talking about if you're kind of building something, starting something a thing that's really important is almost to be yourself, like as you highlighted there with a lady with a restaurant, what she's trying to do, so alongside the business acumen and what we're trying to build as long as we can do it as well where we're not necessarily fake or we're creating a persona that we're trying to pretend to be something we're not if we have something and we can lead it by being ourselves then that becomes the advantage all along but why would you not why would you try to be someone you're not well i don't understand i've never understood that it's so much easier i haven't answered it's so much easier just to be yourself i i know i know that sounds easy but i kind of know along the years that status and everything else that comes with work and everything else because we have to be seen as worthy to someone else whether it's their time or whether it's their money what they want to do but now maybe it's age or whatever it is but the more that we can step forward and be normal and realize there's no difference between the work we do and who we are in our everyday lives is the role that it serves so that comes back full circle to if we're trying to build something the thing that we should never forget is the reason why we're doing it in the first place whether it is when you started the podcast around curiosity around trying to figure this thing out as i go along but i know i'm going to show an interest in this and i know i'm going to start this because i have a willingness to explore where this goes does having time on your side help did you have for instance like you you kind of worked along with the podcast yeah of course whilst you had a sevens festival it was like i don't know when it's going to come back yeah that was a lot of pressure there mate there's been many there's been many different times in my timeline where there's been so much pressure i thrive on pressure i love pressure there's no such thing as stress in my vocabulary that links to heart disease this just pressure can you handle the pressure of a business can you handle the pressure of you having to break the back of your business because you're going to have a lot of sleepless nights.

36:01Fact. That's part of it. You're going to have many days you're going, is this actual business going to work or am I just going to be slogging my plums off here just to get through this to one day hopefully earn a pound note, hopefully earn some money. Many businesses don't get to that point. But the hardest thing that I see, the thing that I've seen over the years is people jumping into businesses, chucking in five grand, 10 grand or 100 grand into their business, but they haven't done their full on homework. Look, before you jump into it, if you're employed today, I would, and you've got an idea.

36:32You've got to remember, there's another 104 days you've got to yourself throughout the year. 104 days, Saturday and Sunday times the 52 weeks of the year, to yourself. I was trying to figure out what I was going to say. But my point, you've got that. You've got that. And you've also got from 6pm or 8pm when you put the kids to bed, till 9, 10, 11 o 'clock at night. You add all those up and you add up your weekends. it's a lot of it's a lot of time you can and I guess that's the trade-off isn't it in the stuff we're trying to do the thing we're trying to build there will always be a trade-off as you said that it may be I'm not going to watch the football on Monday night or tell you or the play the five aside I'm going to put this time here to do the thing whether it is writing whether it is building something whether it is learning a new skill that goes with it if we're trying to build something that from a standing start there is always a trade-off somewhere otherwise we're just going to get steamrolled and we're going to be forgotten about of course and become irrelevant Well, I think the point there, Mark, is most people who are frustrated with their boss or have an annoying line manager or an annoying boss who they don't enjoy being around, but they have to turn up and smile each day as if they're really enjoying their work and through their teeth they're thinking, you absolute.

37:40Yeah, do you know what I mean? He's over 18, is it, this one? But my point is there, how horrible that must be. Going to work knowing you don't enjoy the people around you. You certainly don't enjoy your boss telling you what to do because he's not been taught how to be a boss. He just got there because he's been there many more years than you have. It doesn't mean he's a good manager of people. He might be good at sales. He might not be a good manager of people. But my point here is that if you ever wanted to leave that job, you've got to be prepared that you're not turning up at 9 o 'clock to 5 o 'clock and guaranteeing your money at the end of the month, whereas it's 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 grand at the end of the month.

38:19You're going to live like a student for three years if you go and set up your own business. however come into this and you will be working 18 20 hours a day and you will not be present in certain conversations on a saturday or a sunday because you've got stuff to do you need to be cracking on like they're like entrepreneurship is is another world and if you're not prepared for it and not not there's a high percentage of people aren't prepared for it you're gonna have a massive shock here is my other side to this is what you're talking about here to kind of start to round things up is that you kind of highlighted a pretty volatile world that may not be that may not suit us and if we are working that is making us feel unhappy but the other side is if we don't try we'll never know absolutely and would you want i'd rather take a risk now than regret when i'm 70 all day long so if you're out there and you're thinking about it take that risk but i don't just jump out i see people going like just jump out of my job and i'm going to get all in that start building something in the background so that could be something out whether it is more writing whether it is your own little audio or something else there whatever it may be whatever it may be but make sure you're getting a pay packet you know i know people who are working on their own business in paid time for someone else's work and they're getting away with it good luck to them well as to kind of round up this conversation so as we kind of went through this again i understand this idea that we stay hard to what we believe in and our virtues and what we value.

39:51And if we can find a space where other people want to join in with us, to listen, to read, to buy, to watch, as long as time is on our side and we're prepared to put those hours in, maybe something just around that corner. And I think the thing here is that you'll know who your real friends are when you're an entrepreneur. They're the ones who will buy a few. They're the ones who will read a review. They're the ones you know you can go and tell them if you've had a breakthrough or something successful has happened to you. If you think about it, if something successful has happened to you in business, there's certain people who you're friends you might not want to go and tell because you're feeling like, oh, no, but they might.

40:36Oh, no. you'll know your proper ones you go mate this has happened to me today and I've just something's just massive and they're super happy for you I don't think hold them with two hands protect those friends of yours that's the interesting point because I don't think we lean into that enough about our allies and the people that are there to as simple as doing the marketing for us we've had this conversation about what you're doing Marky about you doing your events live and stage we've had this and me and you know who are supportive of you and me and you know who aren't supportive of you but they still those people aren't supportive of you may still just give you a little like and that's that's weird do you know what I mean it's weird I look in and you look in I'm like your little black and white world of like why you bother doing that why bother I'll get out but why would you why would you I find it difficult why someone would do that when we know that they're not supportive of you yeah and I look in I think that's odd but then that is that called a thing someone said to me the other day oh it might be called a thing called a frenemy I was like what's that it's like a friend but an enemy I was like that's weird isn't it you're either you're either on board and you're a good mate or you can do one it's like kind of I guess they're I guess they're out there these things that will lead us astray are down these slippery slopes I hope there was something there as a good place to start Dodge yeah absolutely if anyone's out there go for it but do your homework oof oof

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