Ask Dodge #5: Reputation in Business is Everything

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0:32I'm an entrepreneur who's built five businesses over the last 28 years, exited two of them and still running three today. On this show, you'll get straight talking, real business chat with no fluff. I think we're going to help thousands of people in business. I've got my good mate with me, Marky Masters, who's going to be the co-host of the show. Dodge, looking forward to this. If there's something you guys want us to answer, send your questions to askdodge at dodgewoodle.com. I hope you enjoy, everyone. I want us to go down the path around personal branding when it comes to trust and bringing people to our side and people knowing the hard work that we do.

1:09What do you want to be known for? What would you imagine 10 years time and people know what Dodge was about? What would you what would you be the thing that you that you were known for? Just one word or a few things or imagine a few things. OK, I could. Let me let me get you out. Let me warm you up. you fluffer. Come on, you old fluffer. Right, here we go, without a run-up. Here we go. I want to be known as someone that creates shared experiences for people. When they come into that space, they enjoy the time that they spend with other people. They feel a part of something. I want to be known for building a community where people feel that sense of belonging.

1:54And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the things that you would want to be known for with the different companies you've built and the brands and the association and the audio as well. But what would you want people to know you for? I think the simple answer there just springs to mind, just as a good bloke. Okay. Just as a good bloke. I want to remember him. He's a good lad. He's straight talking. He says how it is. If he says he's going to do something, he'll do it. Trust, respect, all those things that I was brought up by my old man to have those things. And those things are really important to me in everything that I do.

2:32And I guess the wider context, if you're saying that as a good person, because that's the bit that how other people buy into everything that goes on, whether it is a tournament, whether it is a podcast, if I'm seen as a down-to-earth good person, that enables someone else. Well, people want to work. It's like anything. I want to work with people who I trust and who I get on with and who I like. how do you it's that same thing it's like the same thing it goes the three things know like trust I know people and I like people but I may not trust them I know people I may like people and I trust them that is golden and everyone I come across I always think know like trust can I trust that person I know I like them trust happy days they're on board and I find I find if you can do that and have that in your locker knowing that you can trust people You can do business, you can go on holidays, you can come to friends.

3:26There's so much you can do. How have you, because what you're talking about here leans into this idea of trust. It takes time and it's about building a reputation. How would you say that has been built for you over the years? That you've stepped forward, made something, built businesses. The reason I'm asking is to help somebody else. is that how have you built that reputation over the years? And I say reputation, people that want to do business, want to step up, even want to pay to come to something. Being straight. We're talking business, just being straight. Cards on the table. And all I've got is my reputation.

4:10You can strip away all the nice things we have in life and the businesses and the nice things we do, but all I have is my reputation. You strip everything away. What's his reply? He's got a good reputation. Yeah, he's a good bloke. He's got a good reputation. and he's good at business and he likes doing business with people and he likes bringing people on board and he's open with his contacts and he gets it, you know. And if you can give that, I give that energy off to people who I mentor, other entrepreneurs around me. Very lucky to have great teams of people who work alongside me and they feel trusted.

4:45I give them trust and give them self-belief, believe in themselves that they are really good or they can be the best in the country at what they do. that's all I have, mate. There's no written books and there's no special things I've ever read or watched and think, Oh, I need to learn that. I've just learned from a young age, from a young 10 year old growing up in London pubs to, I am now 30, you know, 30 years later. Plus, um, just being real, just being real. Do you know this word I really don't like? There's one word I really don't like, Marky. This word. Let me guess. Give me, give two guesses.

5:17Go on. Authentic. Yes. There it is. One go. Yeah, I'm not. People keep been using this word. It seems to have cropped up over the last 18 months, two years on socials or on LinkedIn and people using others. It makes me cringe when someone uses that word. It really makes me cringe. Just be real. You know, when I feel like someone's using that word, I'm not against anyone. But do you think people use it to be a bit showy? Yes, I think so. They may not do. And I don't judge people, as you know. I just take everyone for who they are. But when I hear that word, it might just be me, mate, but I feel a bit cringe when I hear it.

5:55It's like people may be trying to use it in their vocabulary to make them. And I guess as well, the thing you're talking about is that, I guess the thing that may wind you up is when people don't have the proof. Like you could easily say, be your authentic self. But what on earth does that mean? If you're saying, I'm trying to kind of understand from your side as well, is that the role that it plays, that the role that it's played on your side has been tangible things. Yeah. Businesses that you sold or you have, even the podcast. How have these different strands played a role in building who you are?

6:34Businesses, the podcast, the sevens, how have all these helped to build the the it feels like I'm pampering to you but that kind of dodge brand how have these all helped well it all helps it's like anything you know to build businesses you've got to be there every single day bam bam bam bam people use the word consistency but it's getting up every day when you don't feel like doing it that comes down to discipline doing something you don't want to do but doing it anyway but again the reputation builds up and every year you are in business I'm in business now like three decades your reputation again that made you feel old again by saying three decades not two decades I know mate I don't feel old at all to be fair mate but when you do mention the three decades you think oh shit bloody hell right okay what's the next one going to be four decades I don't want to get to the point by saying by saying like Dodge and you say to me Mark maybe three decades in this industry but as long as I've got my marbles touched wood eh who's there eh eh so this thing on what you're sharing it was consistency yeah uh again another word but thing of persistence i show up when i don't want to but over time that helps other people uh recognize me or or familiarity but also but also also with that like people in your circle know what you're like people who don't know you are people who will watch you from afar like when you post on LinkedIn about stuff or you post on Instagram or Facebook or on YouTube.

8:07Or people get to see your personality in business meetings and people get to see your personality when you hired hundreds of people and thousands of people at your festival, etc. People see you walking around chatting to everyone, whether you're cleaning the toilets or you're knocking up food or you're the top gold commander copper. Everyone to me is exactly the same. We chat to everyone the same and that's part of, I guess, the reputation of who you are. but the biggest thing probably for the exposure has been the podcast because as a host people get to see how you host and if you're a good listener and you have good conversations people understand your personality and get to know a bit more about you and I guess that's why we're doing this thing called Ask Dodge where I guess people who already are fans of what we do of the podcast and now get an opportunity to fire in questions and hear us have conversations like this and hopefully it helps people in business and in life.

9:06Because that makes me think as well about visibility. I keep on using that word. That makes me think I need to knock that on the head. Visibility, you mentioned there at the beginning, you said, I want to be seen as a good person. And then you shared, well, when I talk to people or reply to someone or I don't just ignore it or there's a brand team there that replying on my behalf. This thing as well that goes hand in hand when we talk about personal brand is around visibility and being seen. If you have a podcast that gives you a vehicle to be in front of people, but what does matter is you are visible for people, whether it's in person, as you said there, event, and I'm talking around to people, or that online side where I can reply or I'm asking people for their opinions.

9:54is that a big thing that goes hand in hand of just being seen yeah yeah yeah but also got that word you just picked up then it's asking people's opinions like for me over the over over my uh entrepreneurship over the uh over the years i'm always asking people's opinions i don't just go and build something and go right i'm doing this i'll ask tight people around me whether it's my old man my best mates family members or i trust and they won't just blow smoke up your backside So they're like, no, Dodge, I won't sign that off. Or be careful of that, mate. Or I don't like that design. Or are you sure you want to go down that route?

10:28Or they'll give me a feedback. But I won't do it on a group. I'll do it individually. Just get their feedback individually. Why do you do it? Is that to either make what you're trying to do stronger or protecting what you're trying to do? Or it might have somebody said something stupid and that would compromise everything. That would ruin everything if you were going to end up doing, I don't know. A prime example, if I've got... See how many yards of ale you can drink and you're going to do that on YouTube? If I was going to launch a new brand, for example, like this one, say our Dodge brand sitting underneath the umbrella one, I'll put it out, the designs to close people around me.

11:08What are your thoughts on that? And I'll give them two or three options and just let them, I'll give them two options, let them know A or B, which one you fancy in, or the name of it, it may even be different. And if I'm getting feedback of everyone going, that's the one, and it's individually all coming back to me, I'm like, right, I'm onto something here. And I also like bringing further afield people who may be fans of the Bournemouth Sevens Festival. I'll put it out there and ask them questions to get their feedback on certain stuff or for the podcast or whatever it may be. I enjoy getting feedback across socials because you're getting people writing their thoughts and then they feel part of it.

11:42And then when they see you develop something, they'll feel like they helped in the development of it. But you've got to remember that it's not what you say to people. It's how you make them feel. Yeah. And if you make people feel valued in business and in life, you're going to get great returns back as well. Because that looks at this whole show around how we're building something where we become known for something or associated with. But there's an interesting part that you're talking about now is that how you want other people to be a part of it as well, isn't it? It's like what you're figuring out and putting together here with the shows and as part of the channel, the network that's happening, is that the reason that grows is that when people have a vested interest, it's not financially, but personally, whether people listen.

12:37Because that's made me think then that when people are involved, it helps make the whole thing stronger. yeah i look this like i'll i'll lead this show yeah but it's only working because of the participation and input and thoughts of so many people that are involved but have you seen where it when we this thing around personal brand that we have to be careful because it could end up in tatters well you can yeah like imagine to your scene is a bit of a maybe you could you could say the wrong thing this is what i've seen i've been involved in it but i've seen acquaintances around me write a post about something and they can get cancelled i've seen it they can get abused online all of a sudden people actually don't like that person anymore a percentage you've got to be very careful and personal brand is kind of thrown out there as this sort of like thing everyone has to have and i do believe that a personal brand is your one of your best assets you can possibly have.

13:40I do believe that. And if you haven't got one, I would start one today before it becomes too late because I reckon over the last next 18 months, two years, with the amount of AI and the amount of fakeness going out there, you need to stand out from the crowd. You need to be the one who the AA can't replicate. Like, I can go on stage and talk. They can't replicate that. I can put on live events. They can't replicate that. But AI can replicate a lot of stuff. And it's actually worrying what I'm seeing at the moment, what they're replicating. how do you find that balance though between like just throwing anything out there or this is wrong this person's or sometimes having time to think or do you just put whatever comes into your head i put whatever comes into my head i just put out people go oh i really like your post it's all real and i was like do you have to plan it i don't plan anything you know i'm like marky i don't i don't have i don't own a computer for christ's sake i've got my mobile phone and i think to something in the morning when i've got a good mind bam bam bam put it out there and see see if people like it or not, you know, but the things that I don't speak about is politics and religion.

14:41Is that because you never have done or you've kind of pulled back on? I've never really spoken about it. I've got my views on politics. I've got my views on, on really, I don't have views on religion really, mate. Politics I have, but I've only learned that in the past year and a half when I've seen what's happening to Great Britain. So let's move away from that. 100 % away from that. It's like, can we find a little swerve? I'm only talking about that. I know this is a quite important point. I'm only talking about that, Marky, of the way Great Britain is because they're not making it easy for entrepreneurs right now and they're not welcoming for entrepreneurs to be successful.

15:16That's the only thing that as I look in as an entrepreneur and think, oh, those people are risking their houses, risking their savings, risking on risk, risk, risk, risk, trying to build something that's going to make the world a better place but there is no incentive anywhere that's the bit that makes me upset and other top entrepreneurs around the UK when we discuss it they're they're the same and I guess that that comes down to that personal brand side and your side when you talk about how you can build something around fairness around the heart and the effort that we put into our work to make a livelihood and to be seen as just happy which comes back to the thing where I just want to be seen as a bloke who did good and other people wanted to join in go back in a couple of minutes or so that you said something i kind of want to pick up on as well that you said like look now's the time to do it now's the time to lean into something we could easily just give the car keys to chat gpt or claude now what would be your your your advice to somebody that is like i'd you know i'd like to build more of a profile or i'd like to be more visible where would your suggestions be for someone to start?

16:25It all depends what their ultimate goal is. Okay. But I go back to that sort of like niche fame type thing. Like if you are selling bathrooms and you've got amazing bathrooms and you build up something on LinkedIn, start talking about it. But be real. Take a photo of you with someone else or a member of your team and start talking about it and build, say this is where we come from. People want to see journey. People want to see real, you know, and make sure you do the same on Instagram and on Facebook and just be consistent with those things and you're going to get one like, one like. I've been there.

16:56You're going to get two likes. You're going to get one comment. And when you get that comment, you're like, oh, that's a nice comment. And you reply back to the comment. Other people see you reply back to the comment and other people later on will go, oh, I like this woman or I like this man. I'm going to comment and see if I get a reply back. And when you, you know, over the years, I've just keep replying to people or like, or thank you or appreciate or write a nice thing back. You can't do it to everyone because as you get your personal brand grows bigger, it's harder to keep getting back to everyone.

17:23but it means but i still make that effort everywhere i possibly can mark because i value someone who's taken their time out to write something i guess that that's a good point there when you kind of say that someone has taken that time to say something so if you flip that to someone that wants to build their own visibility and reputation as what you're saying there is and if you talk about being real is find those instances from our lives the answer is not always in AI to create the image. The image is already there on our camera reel, isn't it? If you're saying there was a product or whatever it is that we have or the area that we build our business in, if we're showing the story behind something, if it is I'm a builder or whoever, the proof is always in front of you when we can interpret it in our own ways of how that has come together.

18:11Or another side is that a lot of us mistake is that we're always looking for what utopia looks like when it all worked and it was brilliant and this is how everyone come but that comes that comes back down to that thing of stop bloody comparing yourself to people like that's the biggest worst the worst thing you can possibly do is start comparing why would you compare someone in your field who might be three seven ten years ahead of you yeah why would you just stop the comparing thing you can learn from them and see how what they've done and what they've done well and just rejig it and tweak it and put it into your way you know people want to be relatable and people we talk about is artificial intelligence it makes me cringe i know the world's going that way but i always talk about people intelligence you know understanding people pi pi people intelligence and it's understanding people it's understanding how people operate it's understanding people's emotions understanding that people are going to have highs and lows as an entrepreneur you're going to have many low days as an entrepreneur do you see though that's an obstacle for so many of us that thing of that we compare ourselves to others as you shared that that someone's been at it for a number of years or they no one ever shows that the the toil and the hours and the struggle that has gone into something because we live in a world where we have to create a filter on everything everything's working whereas this thing that we do forget is the journey sometimes it is i realize that then i guess it is it is climbing that mountain looking around rather than thinking I get to the top and now what?

19:44Because we're always looking at trying to prove ourselves to other people. But do you think that's becoming even worse for us because now we can create these personas and we can create messages in minutes? Like, for instance, I'm going to ask you then straight, do you use ChatGPT, Claude, when you do your work, when you do your posts and stuff? No, no, no, no, no, no. Definitely not. Definitely not. I write all my own stuff, my own mind. the like I find it fascinating like to go into chat gpt and start talking into it about I start talking for as long as I possibly can it comes back I'm like my god how did you know that I find that fascinating and anyone would be crazy not to be using chat gpt because getting answers really really quickly they can read they can without reading a book they can give you all the answers what's in that book I guess it was one thing well they can write um projects out for you they could write lawyers letters out they can do the whole lot you know but if you're gaining if you're wanting to gain trust from people, just be you.

20:43Anyone out there listening, just be you. And remember, people who are reading your stuff, there are so many people who will not comment and will not like on your stuff, but are still watching you, the voyeurs. So still keep building in public and letting people know. And one day, those voyeurs will pop up and they'll end up doing business with you. Hey guys, we've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands.

21:19If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video. We've also left the link below as well. It's triggered my thought there about what builds perception. When I say perception is like how somebody else looks at you. Is it because of the amount of content that we create? Or is it about the consistency around a particular area? For instance, it may be something that we believe in, it may be something that we're doing a lot as well. What helps build perception for someone else?

22:00Do we need to be creating content all the time? or we have to be working hard on being consistent with our message that we're trying to put out there. There's a number of ways that people talk about it. If you look at those people in America, they're like, oh, you must post like Gary Vaynerchuk. You must post four times a day, ten times. It's easy for someone to go and say that because he's got cameramen all around him cutting clips, cutting clips, cutting clips. And he's paying God knows how many people who are doing his posts across Instagram, his TikTok. It's easy for him to say that. If you're a one-man band, male or female, trying to build your brand being consistent might be once a week and that's okay that's okay because that looks at our own confidence like that thing there was that there are people with media crews content crews around them but the majority of us would never ever have that ability but what we do have is our point of view and this thing of shaping our voice but what about looking at yourself now compared to like for instance when you started the podcast in 2020 and we're looking at that this this theme of building your own personal brand how has that changed for you because you can't say i'm still the same bloke i'm not doing a dodge impression thank you mate well if i went back to 2020 2020 the 2020 to now to now surely that's been different how was that how has your voice changed over the years have you become more like the way that you talk in terms of that is it being more articulate or is it a fact that no i've become more direct because when we're talking about the big brands and they're spending lots of money but the biggest asset is the voice that we have but it just takes time and refinement to get there where were you different well you think about it like 2020 when we started this and we're 2026 coming up to 6 years in this whatever you do for 6 years for 1800 days you're going to become better you're going to become better at speaking you're going to become better at listening you're going to become better at pausing and you did a pause there that's what I mean you become better and you become you've got two ears and one mouth so as a host you listen and you listen on every word that someone's saying because I know if I'm hosting this I'll be listening to certain words and I'll be bringing you back to certain things that you mentioned earlier because I want to go deeper into that yeah like what you do with me in these conversations and it's great it's actually nice to be on the other side and see how you co-host this and get my mind talking about stuff that I'd ever spoken about before in public.

24:43But if you look at the journey from how I started off in 2020 to where I am now, it's night and day. But I haven't changed. I'm still with exactly the same curiosity. I'm still with exactly the same optimism, still with exactly the same hunger to do well in this podcasting world. The only thing that's changed is maybe your hosting skills. Ah, so I'm now going down this avenue now of what you're talking about. and it's made me realize that like what you're talking about here is the importance of the softer skills you said there to listen and to find the moments in terms of how we talk and whether it is we we um look at me now not doing myself any justice but when you may be not eloquent with the point you want to get across because what's happening i'm seeing now is that hard is easy when we talk about we can make spreadsheets and doing all the hard stuff now is super easy.

25:37We can write a book in seconds because we can ask ChatGPT to do that. So all the hard stuff now is easy. But the softer stuff, which is everything we're talking about now, that's the challenge. The relationships that we build, you talk about that at the start, the relationships that we build, the rapport we have with other people, the conversations that we have with others, the ability to listen, to sit back, to pause, not just jump in in terms of take the time and thought before we step forward that is now becoming what is defining us and how people judge us and i kind of think that's that's where this is going now when we talk about personal brand is who we are as people do you know one of the strongest things one of this one of the strongest things you can ever do is to say i don't know you're good at yeah and you are good at that Yeah, because if I don't know something, I'm not just going to answer to pretend I know something and make it up because I can't do that because that's lying.

26:40Why would you make it up? Just go, I actually don't know that. And there's something so powerful in saying I do not know, but I know someone who does. It's so powerful. And whenever you're in a situation, if I'm chatting to a group of lads and we're all out and da-da-da, and you know people who are just replying just for the sake of replying, pretending that they've got to know that they know. Do you know what I mean? They've got to pretend that they're just replying so they feel like they're intelligent by replying. Just say, I don't know. It's so empowering. Next time you do it and you don't know, just go like, I don't know.

27:15Because the world is telling us even more that we do have the answer. and the answers now and the information we need is there at the drop of a hat. So we now live in a world where we can all say we have the answer. But if we flip that, the opposite to that is what you're saying there is by being okay and open to say, I don't know, what do you think? It's lovely. Which explains what you're trying to build here. Every dinner party I go to, like we're at a big dinner party and there's drinks going, there's 12 people where the conversation's going. Be that person and say, I don't know. But this goes back to me as a kid at school.

27:50I was the one at school. I couldn't answer the questions because I was no good at learning and regurgitating stuff. I was the one that goes, excuse me, sir, could you explain that? Because I actually don't know. And all the other kids' mates around me go, oh, thanks, Dodge. They were thinking the same, but no one had the kahunas to actually do that. Do you know, going back, you mentioned that earlier, and you were saying about personal brand and how people portrayed themselves selling on socials that they may not be. Something that I find difficult is when people promote how much money they turn over.

28:27Okay. It doesn't mean anything. If you're clued up in business, if you're turning over two million quid, that doesn't mean diddly squat to me. You might be losing 200 grand. You might be making 50 grand. I don't see why people on LinkedIn talk about how much they turn over. Okay. The revenue. That's the bit I always think, why are they promoting that? Do you know why they would promote that? Oh, it's a four million pound. I'm a four million pound revenue business. What is that? Because it's we live in a world of status and that thing that we share. And I guess the model that is the system that is built around that of we're demonstrating to people that we know better than someone else.

29:07We're doing better than someone else, which can be crippling for people that just want to get themselves up and running and starting. and could just be being taken seriously or just to build people or to build people that will come back again. Coming up to kind of the latter part of this show is that what's the simplest way to build proof? When I say build proof, if someone says, I'm going to come back and see what that person has to say. What's the simplest way for someone to build proof? By doing. By doing. That's the only way you can build proof is by doing. And then share it. And share it.

29:49This is what I've done. And share it. That's your proof. And then if you've been a good person on that journey, and you've dealt with 10 different people on that journey, they're all going to speak highly of you. It's like when someone leaves the businesses here. I love it. I've said to you before, I love it when they leave. Give them massive respect. They've helped you grow your business. Give them massive respect that they may have a month carrying on here or three months carrying on here. And keep that relationship really strong. Because everyone who's left my business over the years, I still end up working with them.

30:24Because you've built them up in such a way that they're a huge asset to you. So carry on still working, but they might be freelancing with you or might be doing some contract work. And that person will go to the next business or go somewhere else. They'll end up telling 100 people. Because everyone will go, oh, what's that Dodge fella like? Oh, he's a good guy. your reputation is all we have that's a good way that comes back to what you said at the start is that rather than you're going down an industry road is that i want to be known as someone who was seen as a decent person because that looks at when we're trying to identify the proof of that's the difficult bit because it's not nice to be called out or someone to say something because it's our own insecurities but if we can step up show the work how it's shaping other people then over time that's what helps to build our own confidence.

31:16But that comes down as well. When you're building a company, there's no better way of improving your self-development than building a company. You'll find emotions you've never felt before. You'll find scenarios that you've got to dig, you've got to create a way of getting through this problem. You become a problem solver. You become that person when you start hiring that you've got responsibilities. You've got responsibilities that your staff might have kids. They might be married. They might have got mortgages to pay. You take on full-on responsibilities and everyone gets paid before you. Everyone, even the tax man.

31:51The tax man gets paid for you. All the members of the staff get paid for you. The people who clean the offices get paid for you. Everyone gets paid for you and hopefully at the end of it, you've got your 10 % net of your turnover or if you've got a really good business, it might be 20 % or in the majority of cases, people might only have 1 % or in fact, they might even lose money at the end of the year. Imagine how demoralising that is. you've done five years in something and you still haven't broken the back financially of it. But that's what it takes. It takes a long bloody time. It takes three, four, five years.

32:21But people due to social media think it can happen in a year. It doesn't. But if you're building something worthwhile. I see that our dialogue is about, as you said, if you're trying to build something worthwhile and you want it to go hand in hand with your own reputation that you want to build, than that thing of being seen and being visible, being okay. There's a means showing off that just because you got up at hour five in the morning, there was a sunrise. Who cares? No one cares. Everyone's more worried about trying to get through their own life. So if you think you're going to be judged, they're going to judge you whatever way.

32:52We've said this before. You're going to judge you in a, who cares? Only you care as much because this is what you're doing. But people looking in, even your close friends really want you to do well. But no one, they care, but no one else in your big wider circle really cares because everyone's just homing in on their own world every day today. So trying to bring this show to a close is that where we started is that we think that personal brand and reputation is about telling everyone how good we are and how hard we work and when really what we're talking about here is what people see when you're around.

33:32And you may not be in the room, but it's what people expect when you are involved. The only thing you want is when you're not in a room, it's for people to speak highly of you. Isn't that as simple as that, isn't it? Because hard is easy. As we talked about, softer skills is now actually really hard. How we conduct ourselves, how we behave, and as you're saying there, how other people would hopefully share that with decent, honest people whose heart was always in the right place. our personal brands that we build comes down to who we are and it's how we present that to the wider world and we don't need to show off but it's our values and what we stand for and what we believe in and how we understand how we conduct ourselves and how we talk and how we listen and your character and your character who are you as a character are you someone who pays on time are you someone who opens the door when when someone's going into your office you open the door for them and let them through?

34:35Are you someone who's super polite to everyone? Like, it's your character, you know? People will leave a room and go, I like that bloke, I like that woman, how lovely were they? They're going to go and tell a hundred people over time. And they'll all be the ones I met Mark or Dodge that day. What lovely people they are. That's all I want. That's all I want. It's not that hard, is it? It's not hard. It really isn't. It's just making people feel good about themselves, and leaving a good taste in people's mouths. And it's really simple. You know what I like about this? I don't even know what's coming at me when we do these episodes.

35:15She's like, right, let's talk about this. Go. Brilliant. Good man, Marky. Cheers, mate.

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