FOUNDER #18. Essex Boy £40M Empire & 18 Brands - James Sinclair

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0:44James Sinclair: Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just$15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Do you think you're strange?

1:17Yeah. You've got 10 businesses. There's many more. There's many more. How many have you got at the moment? 18 brands, if you like. Okay. And 45 companies on Companies House. I bought four businesses in the last 12 months, which have increased our revenues by about 23 million quid a year. What would you look to be buying? Well, first of all, the bigger you buy, the less problems there are. There's a really sad fact about UK businesses here. Only about 5 % get to their 10-year anniversary. 50 % have gone within the first two years. 80 % don't make it to five years. There's this thing called the Lindy effect.

1:50If it's been around 100 years, there's a good chance it's going to be around in the next 100 years. When have you been at your lowest? Being a business owner in the current UK economy, you have got to have a certain amount of insanity about you to keep going. 1 ,350 millionaires leaving per month in the UK. They're disgusting. How bad is that? That's so sad. That's so sad. But will there ever be a breaking point? Death.

2:22Welcome to the Eventful Lives podcast. I'm your host Dodge and I'm the founder of Bournemouth 7s, the world's largest sport and music festival. On this podcast I speak to proper characters of all lived eventful lives. Do us a favour and hit that follow button and be sure to check us out on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Dodge Woodall where we've now had over 100 million views. I'm an ambitious person that wants to get things done, constantly dissatisfied. um i think i've got isms i think i'm a strange individual um that that that maybe is doing more than i need to do because for some unknown reason i've got an ego that or a set of skills and ego that means that i should go and do stuff with that skill set that i've got and a true entrepreneur that's what i would explain you when i have when i meet people i said james is a friend of mine He's a proper entrepreneur.

3:20There's lots of entrepreneurs who want to be entrepreneurs, but there's then the real bunch. And I put you in that real bunch. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm like an old school entrepreneur. I've never done a SaaS product. I've never done cryptocurrency. I've never done technology. I've used technology in my very traditional businesses. You know, my businesses are boring, bricks and mortar, traditional businesses. I'm not creating what everyone wants to do, a software as a service product or Robotics. So with all your businesses, you've got 10 businesses. There's many more. There's many more. How many have you got at the moment?

3:59Well, I've lost count. Roughly. I think we've got like 18 brands, if you like. Okay. And 45 companies on Companies House. Okay. Are you under pressure? at certain times here's what happens with me i get myself into a position of pressure i solve the pressure have an equilibrium if you like and then go again which is i think serious entrepreneurs serial entrepreneurs their curse because they are constantly dissatisfied You have to be very careful if you're seriously entrepreneurial. I think one of your strengths, one of your weaknesses that works in tandem is the fear of boredom. That's a horrible feeling.

4:50Horrible feeling. I want to just break down your businesses.

4:54James Sinclair: Yeah. Yeah. The brands go. I want to work backwards. So the ones you've just bought. So start with the latest one you bought. I want to work backwards. okay so the most recent one um i bought four businesses in the last 12 months um which have increased our revenues by about 23 million quid a year so that's pretty serious um just those four business have increased it by 23 million yeah okay and what are those four businesses so uh let's revert i bought a food services business called fresco food services so for anyone that doesn't understand what food services if you can think of break brothers or 3663.

5:35They are some of the biggest multi-billion pound food services business. They would supply factories, schools, offices, coffee shops and restaurants. So the last one I bought about 1.6 million of turnover in London. Previous to that, I bought a teddy bear company called Be My Bear that were my competitors that makes teddy bears that you make yourself for going to scan clinics in Butlins, Holiday Parts, Centre Parts, Havens, those types of places. Pre that, I bought a business called Camp Beaumont and Interaction. Camp Beaumont is one of the largest school holiday camp businesses in the United Kingdom.

6:17Also operates in Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong. I have teams over there. It's around a 10 million of revenue business. A business called Interaction that's based on the Isle of Wight, which is a auditing and training and offqual which is if you've got apprenticeships the offqual part we assess apprenticeships for center parts or we come up the program for center parts for all the activities and sports activities they would do at center parts and many other companies and then before that one of the best ones that i think we've done they've all been good but camp is cafe deli wholesale which is a big 10 million turnover food services business um and all of those businesses then there's actually five there all of them fold into our existing ecosystem okay so just for the listeners out there i've never heard of you before what exactly were the businesses before we bought these five so before that um and i still have them all i have a big chain of day nurseries called twizzetops day nurseries uh chain of indoor play centers called party man world um two farm attractions marsh farm uh in essex lee valley in north london um then a business called teddy tastic which makes children's slime arts and crafts and teddy bears that you make yourself so it's an activity-based business where you get all the ingredients but the kids have to finish it off pottery painting glass painting we do all of that stuff and we supply it to nearly every holiday park in this country.

7:49And that's our fastest growing business. We manufacture and the brands and do that. Then we have an ice cream company, which is one of the oldest ice cream companies in the country called Rossi Ice Cream. And all of these businesses, all these brands that I've just spoken about, as a starter for 10, they all buy from each other or supply each other or vertically integrate in some way, as well as having their own customers. So just leverage everything you've got. Yeah. So when we bought the food services business, I had a pain point. I set up Rossi Ice Cream. I bought this brand. I thought, I'm just going to sell this everywhere.

8:25So I'd rang up the people I was buying food from. I was spending a million and a half a year with Breaks, that food services business. And I said, can you do me a favor and distribute my ice cream? They didn't say no, but they put every single brick wall in my path to stop me getting it in there. Now, I knew if I had distribution, I would be able to really grow that company. Now, here's the thing, Dodge. If you're a food entrepreneur, and lots of people want to be food entrepreneurs, and if they're watching today, here's the thing that I've learned. It doesn't matter about your product. It matters all about distribution.

8:57It is a distribution-first business. Then, how good is your product? So, we were making this really good ice cream, but we couldn't get it to people. We had our own vehicles and our own vans, but it was a real pain. I couldn't get it into London because we didn't have the scalability, and you needed that economies of scale to make it really work. So I thought, well, I'm just going to go and buy some food services business. This is literally how strange my mind works. So I just went into Google, food services businesses for Sal. I went and saw 10, found Cafe Deli Wholesale, retirement Sal, and I just went there on a weekend.

9:30I remember driving around the M25 because it's in South London. I was thinking, oh, do I really want to be doing this today? Is it a bit of a waste of time? And I got there and you have that moment. It was like falling in love. Yeah. You know, like when you just see those breasts for the first time. I was like, oh, my word, I'm in trouble. I'm in, you know. And I was. And I told you something about my sexuality, Yang. A lot of people in that jacket thinking he's got to be. And I'm not. I was, but I'm not anymore.

10:03So, and I just, I thought, I've got to buy this. I've got to buy this. And at the signing of a piece of paper, I had a fleet of vehicles, I think 24 trucks, distributing into London every single day. So all the Royal Parks and all the coffee shops and the parks, we supply every single one of them. We're into London at three in the morning. Every morning we've got big distribution. So then I just put Rossi ice cream into London overnight. And so that's one of my biggest learns over the last two decades of doing this gig as entrepreneur. and earn, buying companies, as long as they're big enough, because I have had my fingers burnt on this, as long as they're big enough.

10:39What, bigger than over a million turnover minimum? Yeah, I have a sort of a rule that you want to buy, if I, you know, the bigger you buy, the less problems there are. Usually, if you buy a big business, they've got an accountant that works for them. They've got an MD, they've got management, they've been around a long time. There's fat in the business if things go wrong. And when I've bought low barrier to entry businesses with not enough management, things have gone wrong because I'm running a big thing. I'm spinning many plates. So when I'm looking at buying companies, I'm actually looking at the management first.

11:14I'm looking at the establishment next. I'm looking for… Establishment as in how long they've been around. There's a really sad fact about UK businesses here. Only about 5 % get to their 10-year anniversary. you know 50 percent have gone within the first two years 80 percent don't make uh it to five years so that that data you can have a quick google you can see that that is sad isn't it and true yeah um the reason i think that happens maybe we'll talk about later and that is something i think governments can help with so if you buy something that's over 10 years old very simply you're in the top five percent sorry over 10 years old you're in the top five percent now you've been to my hotel oh, that's 500-year-old, that hotel.

11:58You know, there's this thing called the Lindy effect. If it's been around 100 years, there's a good chance it's going to be around in the next 100 years. That's why I've always stayed away from these fandango technological-type businesses. And I've got it ingrained in my head. You know, certainly now because of AI technology, everyone's talking about this, you know, is my business going to be all right in 10 years' time? And I think the better question for entrepreneurs and business owners is, what's not going to change in 10 years? What's not going to change in 10 years? and then lean into that.

12:27When have you been at your lowest? I don't have shareholders. You know, I don't have private equity. I borrow money from banks. You know, I've got about 18 million of loans at the moment, 16 millions on commercial property and 2 millions on some sort of cash flow invoice finance line when you're importing stuff from China and America, from China. So, you know, you have a facility, which I've got with HSBC. So most of it's just commercial property. And I love commercial property around me because it gives me comfort. The thing is with me, Dodge, if I've got a million pounds, when something like that's happened to me, I've sold something, I've put the million pounds to work before I've got it.

13:09Just how I'm wired up. It's just how I'm wired up. And so, you know, and when you're on your own, I'm an amazing team. I've got an amazing team, people that really care about me. But, you know, the butt does stop with me. and so I'm quite insular. So whilst I look quite confident from the outside and yes, I can stand on stage and talk to a thousand people, not prepare for it and absolutely do it with my eyes closed like I'm brushing my teeth, I know what to do. I do have some dark moments. I think being a business owner that's ambitious, certainly at the moment in the current UK economy, you have got to have a certain amount of insanity about you to keep going.

13:53And here's the other thing that I often think, and I've been thinking about this more recently. I do this, I write a newsletter every week to people that want to read my triple. And it does very well. And I'm on YouTube, make podcasts, and I suppose all of that and what I'm doing now, I sort of turn slightly into performance mode. You just can't help it, you know, you're doing that. When I write the newsletter, I've realised I'm actually quite dark about how difficult this gig is and so and chuds who makes all my content like head of my content you know he spends a lot of time with me and has done for the last seven years you know more time with me probably than my wife and my family because you know we sit next to each other and we're making content he doesn't get i don't know if you know we've had conversations and he asked me last Friday said are you happy because we make personal development content like you do Dodge yeah ultimately we really break it down you're helping people personally develop through your podcast and it's fantastic and you're obviously a fantastic chap when you look and you ask these personal development questions you ask yourself and he says you know are you happy and I said about half of my life is happy and the other half is highly stressed and dealing with stuff and I don't know, I could make it easier.

15:17You could definitely make it easier, but I don't think you want to. No, so what I could do, I have a lot of commercial property around me. You could live off that quite easily, but I know you'd get bored. I rent it all out. And I did think though, over the last couple of weeks and things have been more challenging, I was just like, I could fire sale my business, probably get together 20 million quid, keep all the properties, rent them out. they all service each other i could have a load of money in the business even at a fire sale valuation of 20 million quid have millions come in in rent you know i'd have rent coming in as regularly as donald trump's on the news it would be like that um and i could just make content and speak around the world and do business stuff but i don't do you ever think that that could be the way forward and maybe that might help relationships around you so i i'm a i'm gonna tell you a little story it's quite a poignant story i am a liverman of london do you know what that is no so it's one basically you become a person so it's a charity thing um it's run by the city of london and you get to walk a sheep over the uh over the bridge of london and you become a man or a city of london so i'm part of the worshipful company of entrepreneurs and part of that thing all of the old Bailey judges are livermen.

16:43It's like Freemasonry but absolutely not. People would understand that and people will know what it is. And so one of the things that you get to do on that is you get to have lunch with all the silks. That's what they're called aren't they, these judges. At the old Bailey, if you go to the old Bailey, there's only two types of things they do at the old Bailey in terms of sentencing. Do you know what it is? Go on. I want to have a little guess. It's pretty serious stuff. Go on. It's murder and terrorism. So if anyone's going to the Old Bailey, they've either killed someone or they're a terrorist.

17:19That is all they do there. And these judges understand that piece of the law. So there was 20 judges and four entrepreneurs in the Old Bailey having lunch. And it's one of the things that you can do there. Sorry about that. I was sitting next to one judge on my side who was definitely going to put someone away for this week, and the other one there is doing the same thing. I was talking to this guy and he said, what are you doing? I said, I'm an entrepreneur. He wants to ask me all these things about my business. Who are you, sir? I want to know about a case. I find that quite interesting. And then he said, my friend's an entrepreneur.

17:54He's a business owner. Well, he's not really. He's a farmer, but he's got businesses. And I said, Danny, what you just said to me, I said, he could just sell the farm, buy a load of commercial property, and make his life a lot easier because farming is devilishly difficult to make money from unless you're doing a huge scowl. And do you know what this judge said to me? It's a brilliant quote. I'd never, ever heard it before. And he said, I've said that to him when I've been advising him because he's a judge. Everyone would go to a judge. He said, and the farmer replied back to me and said, happiness is just a little bit boring.

18:31And I think that's how I'm wired up. happiness is just a little bit boring. But if you took away all the pressures of your business, because you could definitely take pressures away from your business. Yeah. I could sell some stuff. You could sell some stuff. Ease the pressure. Ease the financial pressure. Ease all the pressures that are around. Or just stop growing. Or stop growing. But are you growing to bring more turnover into the business to protect the other businesses? Is this an ongoing thing that you're doing to bring in? Do you go where I'm coming from? To go, okay, if that business isn't doing too well, let's bring some more turnover in because the group will look better and one day I might be able to sell the group.

19:11Is the ultimate goal to sell the group? What are you now, 41? What are you, 40, 41? I'm 40. I'm much more of a collector of assets. I've sold a few things along the way. And one day, ultimately, look, I help business owners, entrepreneurs. But what do you love doing? What does James A. Cleo do? I like it all. I like making ice cream. I like building dinosaur parts. I just bought a carousel for Marsh Farm. I get very excited about that stuff. I'm excited about Cam Bowman. I like my teddy bear. I like it all. Yeah. What do you like the most? Is it the podcasting? Creation. Creation, I'm the same.

19:45Being creative. Yeah. Yeah. But is it the podcast? Could you do the podcast of The Day You Die? Yep. That's something you absolutely love. Yep. Could you run a teddy bear company today? Yeah, I love doing it. I love going to China, sourcing the products, working it all out, knowing that we're the best. No, I hear you. I hear you mate I hear you I hear you I get it if I really wanted to make money and I've been saying this if I really wanted to make money I'd just buy more warehouses and commercial property I know how to do it inside out and I'm very good at it that's one of the things I would say I'm very good at I get it but it's a bit boring do you prefer building businesses from scratch or do you prefer buying them well I've done both and I've done it both plenty of times it is easier buying a company yeah it is easier buying a company it is very akin to asking you know a heart surgeon after 25 years of doing it is day 25 or year 25 easier than year one you know you want the pilot that's done 10 000 hours rather than the pilot that's first day on the job don't you he just he's going to instinctively know oh there's a bit of turbulence coming over here i'll go this way a few degrees he don't even And he's just doing it, you know, by osmosis, if you like.

21:02And I see that when I buy companies. And I've got so good at understanding how to buy companies, how banks work, how to leverage it, how to make it tax efficient, how to give you loads of insurance against things going wrong. When I bought Cafe Deli or when I've bought Camp Beaumont, I can just set up Camp Beaumont on Marsh Farm. So just for the listeners here, Camp Beaumont, I remember going there as a kid. Did you actually go there? Yeah, I did. Fantastic. I went to Guernsey with my old man in the 80s or something. It was fantastic. Brilliant. And when you told me you bought Kent Bowman, I was like, what a wonderful brand.

21:34How much did you pay for that? A pound. Yeah. How much debt was it? And I took on about 800 ,000 pounds worth of debt. No, a million quids worth of debt. Okay. What made you – how long was it on sale for? It wasn't on sale. The MD of that business watches me on YouTube and watches my content and reached out to me. And that deal was done over Twixmas, you know, the week in between Christmas and New Year. This is all going wrong. And that was a private equity company that owned a much bigger business. They wanted to offload that, did they? No, the whole thing went pop. Okay. And there was a temptation that I could have taken the whole thing, you know, or part more of the whole thing.

22:16And I just wanted to take the Campo Mont Park. So what were you buying? Bought the brand, all the equipment, and an absolutely fantastic management team. Okay. So again, with that deal, it was all about, do I have faith that this management team could carry on doing this and then could we be good guardians of it? How many are in the management team? Cambo Mon employs around 400 people. 400? Four and part-time, yeah. How many full-time? 35 full-time. Okay, so that's more money. Okay. But we, you know, I employ over 2 ,000 people now. and probably got 700 full-time equivalents. That I do not wish on anyone.

22:55You know, some months... So you've got 2 ,000 people you employ, but 700 full-time? Yeah, because, you know, like you, hospitality and leisure. You know, we have people that work for us every month, but Marsh Farm is only open weekends and school holidays, for example. Our day nursery business is full-on all the time. So there's about 350 staff in our childcare business that are full-time. 90 to 100 in our warehouse and our head office team that are full-time cafe deli has 35 staff full-time but yeah we have a 1.5 to 2 million pound a month payroll every month which you know i don't i don't wish that pressure on anyone what about you do you look after yourself i take it more seriously than ever before i mean i don't look as good as you and your captain america body but I do try Do you know when you've got comedians who on stage they're really funny off stage they can be quite low in times is that you?

23:58I'm an entertainer You like to entertain, you like to make people laugh you like to be the character on stage actually when you come off and you've got time to yourself how is James? I'm quite introverted I like my own company overall I'm happy but you know I deal with big things yeah you know that I know one of the big things that happens is as you get more successful in terms of size and responsibility there's a funny thing about the world if if you solve problems the universe just goes give him some more problems to solve give him some more responsibility or her give them more responsibility and that's been my experience now yes I seek some of it But also when someone hands me on a plate something, which through making lots of content has been happening more and more, you know, I just think, well, I don't want to get the shoulda, woulda, couldas that I should have taken this on.

24:57And I've very much enjoyed seeing the person I've become taking on more responsibility. But there's got to be a point where you're like, enough's enough. you can't i don't have this conversation with you but i'm saying conversation in a year's time jimbo let's go back on i've now got 36 companies and i've got 4 000 stuff and i've got there's going to be that probably will happen to me but will there ever be a breaking point death i will not retire i will not retire i get it but is there a balance have you got a good balance in your life with home life and family life i love my children yeah yeah um i'm a workaholic there's no two ways about it or I'm a thinkaholic I think that's a slightly different yeah my mind doesn't turn off but I'm very poor I mean I don't drink I've never I've never smoked I don't drink I've never done drugs I'm very boring in many ways but I just and the thing is our sport the extreme sport of entrepreneurship that is our sport that's what we love every minute of every day thinking thinking thing but I know it's like running three companies you're running 17 18 I'm just trying to put it in perspective 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 you're juggling a hell of a lot in your mind yep good thing about doing this stuff though it helps I think you're making content you make sure that you're sharp there's a little thing that I do love if you want to learn something read about it if you want to understand something write about it if you want to master something teach it so when you're doing this podcast or when i'm doing my stuff you know helping business and speaking at conferences i'm really teaching it and i i make sure that i'm doing the right stuff i make sure i avoid stupid businesses and you know stupid opportunities make sure i'm choosing the right opportunities my accountants and my finance people that you know work with me they go yeah this all makes sense they never they never say to me like i've got some good advisors around me they never go you know no this doesn't make sense they might say can't just wait six months you know or why don't you just wait a year or three months we don't like waiting i just think yeah fuck off leave me alone i want to get cracking yeah yeah yeah are there any businesses you've got in your mind that you've got an eye on at the moment if i came to you with a business every day i do some form of m &a work there is okay so if there was a biz floating around here i'd go jimbo take a look at this what your thoughts If you fancied it and you liked it, you'd be in.

27:33Yeah. What are the phone calls you'd make before you'd go in? Well, I would look at, does it fold into my existing ecosystem, or as I like to call it, the existing empire? Can my existing businesses give it more revenue, or can it save my existing businesses' costs? Yeah, okay. They're the top two things. Next, is there a good management team in there? Is it an established business that's been going over 10 years? and crucially I like love want and need businesses so where people love what you do want what you do and need what you do now lots of businesses it's called good for lots of my businesses are love and want that's why I love child care I love waste I mean I would never invest in waste because it's not really my it doesn't excite me so therefore I wouldn't do it but people do love waste businesses because if you lived in Birmingham recently and your bins are not getting taken away you soon fall in love with the bin man that takes the smell away from the front of your house so love want and need dentistry is a love want and need business if you got toothache you're going to love the bloke that can solve the toothache and you'll find the money for it regardless of economic circumstances child care is another one food services is why i love that business people love food they want food and they need food and so i'm trying to find love want and need businesses so out of all those businesses can you look at that business from 1 to 18 and so start with 18 and yeah it's doing turnover 1.6 but it's not making any profit i would very rarely buy loss making businesses now the james but the debt what about the debt if you take something on with the debt someone like yeah so i did buy cambo yeah but i've for 20 years before that because it had audited accounts i could see it was making 1 million 1.3 million net profit proper profit with verbatim and i could see that company's house private equity bought it and sort of overloaded it with costs because they was going to grow it and do all that super stuff and so i could see a very easy way to restructure the business i mean since we've bought it we've got rid of half a million pounds worth of annual head office costs we got rid of their head office another 150 grand we're getting ready to open it in the uae we had a very quick clear path to be able to save lots of money and get it next year that'll be making good money again.

29:44But how exciting is that bit? Yeah. That's the exciting bit. Right, get 500 grand there, 150 grand there, that's where we're at. Now we can go. The problem comes, Dodge, when you buy a half a million turnover business, it's much harder to see those things because that was an audited business. I could see the accounts from the previous owners. I actually reached out to the old owners and they reached out to me on LinkedIn. It's one of the good things about having a public profile. They're so glad that you've bought Cambon You won't do what the private equity company done to it. I'm not dissing private equity because sometimes private equity go very well.

30:18Yeah, but what percent don't go well? There's always that bad word about private equity. They go in there. I think they actually are more successful than not successful. Do you think they're 30 % successful, 70 %? No, I think it's more than that. You reckon it's the opposite way? I think certainly in traditional businesses it's much more successful. Maybe on tech, there's an element of risk in gambling. Or gamble, yeah. But if you go and buy 10 hotels as a private equity company and you want to roll it up, I don't think those sorts of traditional businesses. But that's one of the big things. I think a very big opportunity for entrepreneurs and business owners is buying.

31:00We've got these baby boomers. There's going to be a big wealth shift. The baby boomers are 60 plus. There's a lot of people who go, I've watched mum and dad work so incredibly hard. Why did you not open a pub? You were growing up in a pub and that's hard work, isn't it? That's proper graft. That's a hospitality, seven day a week thing. Absolutely. If you look back at my great granddad, pub outside Upton Park, West Ham. My granddad had an off license outside West Ham's football stadium. My mum and dad then got into casino world when they met. Then they set up pubs, running pubs. Then all my uncles and aunties were running pubs around London in the 80s.

31:41I then went into the nightclub world for 10 years. Now I'm in the festival world for the next 18 years. Like, everything you look back is putting smiles on people's faces around alcohol, booze and entertainment and having fun. Yeah. But you set up a festival and you run that business for seven days a week, a year, intensely, whereas a pub is... Oh, God, it's full on. Goodbye Christmas Day. Goodbye. We used to open up. When I was a kid, my old man and mum would open on Christmas Day. Yeah, yeah. Just for like two, three hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look, you've seen we've got a pub. You have to be open three hours on Christmas Day.

32:15It's so important, isn't it? I forgot the – but, yeah, I do think this big shift in wealth from these baby boomers poses a massive opportunity for entrepreneurial people. You can buy companies using very little money. You can creatively get hold of them and then put your new energy effort and enthusiasm. And marketing spin and social media spin on top. Yes, which hasn't been done. It hasn't been done, but I've never bought a company. Yeah. And I've just built businesses from scratch over the last 27 years. I'm quite interested now in buying a company to take away the three, four years, five years that you have to go through to get it to a point.

32:58Oh, I'm in the gang, baby. Yes. So what would be worth buying right now if I was going to go, right, I'm going to buy something for a mil? I fancy that business. I know that I can tweak, use my team here, leverage my team here, tweak. We're really good at marketing, really good at promo, got loads of contacts. What would you look to be buying? Well, first of all, there's something there that you said that I do not like. Go on. You said, I'm going to put a mil over there. We want to imagine that we haven't got any money. Okay. So we start from zero. So you'd go straight to the bank and put as little down as possible?

33:31Well, no, not even that. Okay. I think there's so many opportunities where you can take really good businesses on that people just want to hand it over to a good guy. Because they've had enough. Yeah, so let's have a look. There's a 65-year-old. So you'll be lucky. You've got festivals. You've got production. And what was the third one? Media. Media. Media, sport. Our business is a media company, a sport and music festival, and an online education events company. Yeah. Okay. So I would be looking, if I was you, I would put into Google AV and audiovisual companies for sale in the United Kingdom.

34:12Then I would go and see 10 of them for sale. That would be my next thing. Because why is that good? Well, you probably spend a good£300 ,000 hiring all that stuff. I don't know the final deal. I think it's like 100 grand. Okay. 100 grand a year just for all the big screens at the festival, et cetera. So you're definitely doing 100 ,000 on that stuff. So I would then go and see 10 of those that are for sale, and I would be only choosing ones that are doing over a million of revenue. They've got good management teams in place that, just because they've been around 20-plus years, they attract people because of word of mouth.

34:51Imagine then if you put some Google PPC on it, You may go and do some trade shows. You go and do some social media marketing. And then you can explode the growth of that company by putting a couple of them together to get economies of scale. And then what I would say to the business owner is, well, what do you value this business at? And he goes, well, I've got a million quids worth of equipment over there. I've got a million pounds in the bank. And we're making half a million pounds a year profit. Okay, so what do you want for it? And he goes, well, I want two million for it. Okay, so that includes the million pounds worth of equipment.

35:26I'll say, right, I'll give you your two million. I want you to leave me around 250 ,000 pounds worth of working capital. I would then go to the bank and say, see all that lease finance equipment. Can you re-gear that and give me half a million back? And then I'd say to him, you remember you had a million pounds in the bank. Now, I know if you took that as a dividend, you'd lose half of that tax. But if you were selling the business, it's much more tax efficient. So we'll add that to the purchase price. So you would now get$3 million. But he's going to leave you$250 ,000 of working capital behind.

35:57Very important, this. Get your accountant to help you. Then I would say to him, I'm going to pay you the balance over 10 years. And then he'll go, no, I don't want to wait 10 years. And then you would go into a fight to try and get that down. So you're using him as the bank. Now, there's a couple of reasons why you want to use them as the bank. Number one, it makes sure they're aligned to make sure there's a good handover. It makes sure they're aligned to make sure that everything they're saying they're telling you is the truth. It is the ultimate insurance policy to make sure the vendor gets dripped out some cash over a period of time.

36:32Because a lot of people, when they're selling their business, everything's unicorns and rainbows. There's no problems here. Well, actually, are you actually going to put your money where your mouth is? And I always personally guarantee those deals as well. People go, oh, I can't believe you personally guarantee it. well I want to pay you all your money back I want to give it all back to you but I just want to make sure you're telling me the truth and then if he does want more money up front I would try and get it all out on that basis I would then bring in the bank and I've done a variety of reasons I've given people all that when I bought the Rossi Ice Cream Parlour that was 1.2 million I gave them all the money up front completely when I bought Cafe Deli Wholesale that was 1.5 million I gave them all the money up front completely when I bought Camp Beaumont it was a pound so no earn out whatsoever no earn out whatsoever but had warranties in place and do you know what on Cafe Deli after I bought that business the owner sadly passed away two weeks after buying it and he just he knew he was dying and I knew that it was good and I was getting a good deal it was making very good profits and so I would get give me an example of that Cafe Deli what it would turn over and what the net profit so it was 10 million it was making around 750 ,000 profit so I pay 1.5 million but I got stock I got 24 or trucks, I got all the equipment.

37:47So you did EBITDA multiple times two? I'm very aggressive with these things. I don't want to be spending the next 10 years paying someone like that. What was the attitude of him going, who cut, no, I'm interested in this bit here. We'll go to that in a minute. But when cutting that deal of 750, multiple EBITDA times two, you're giving them 1.5. Was there no negotiation there? So this is what I've got. Do you want to take or leave it? They wanted 3 million. They wanted 3 million. and I do this, this is a thing, I say, look, I can only get to 1.5 million. That's all I can raise. You go and try and sell it to someone else.

38:21If you can't do it, come back to me. And that's what they did. Perfect. So then I never chip it down again. Yeah. I think a lot of people in that situation where they go, oh, they're desperate. Yeah. I wouldn't do that. Yeah. Because you need to keep rapport and the universe will reward. But that is all I could do, Dodge. You know, I'm not private equity backed. You know, I'm not doing all those things. I've retained all those team members. I've kept them all on. and that was the right and fair and reasonable thing to do. Now, when I bought the ice cream parlour, that was only making two underground a year.

38:50And what was the turnover of the ice cream? 1.5 million, the parlour. This is just a shop. And what's that one shop in Essex? Yeah. And that one shop was turning over 1.5? Yeah. It is unbelievable. And just ice creams or teas, coffees? Everyone knows. Yeah, it does some basic food. Yeah, okay. But it's 100 years old, that shop. And it was branded Rossi Cafe or Rossi Ice Cream? It was 100 years old, that shop. and they were our biggest customer. And because we owned the brand and the factory, they used to all be together. But the predecessing family that used to own Rossi sold all bits off. So what did you actually buy then?

39:23What were you buying? You bought a Rossi ice cream brand as the factory, number one, and a separate deal you wanted that venue. And then I bought another Rossi ice cream shop. On separate deals? Yeah, they all got sold off. And it was a really fascinating story. So Pietro Rossi started Rossi, right, 1920s, left Italy, moved to Glasgow and then went to sunny South End on Sea on his holiday in 1930 couldn't find any ice cream but we've moved from Italy to Glasgow so we'll just pick up tricks and move down to South End on Sea and they started making ice cream first shop they had, you'll love this story Dodge was 99 High Street South End on Sea and that was their signature dish were they the originals?

40:06that's what we say, I mean some people argue with us but we've got that That wasn't, it was definitely 99 high street. They used to sell the 99. They built up a massive business. 2007, I had a 20 million pound business in terms of property and assets. My solicitor dealt with it. There was no children. Sold it all off. Half went to the Catholic church and half went to a cat charity. And then I've gone, I bought the factory back. I bought the shops back. From the cat factory and from? Well, they all got sold off to different. Oh no, all the properties got sold off. Okay. Yeah. So what did you pay when you first saw it?

40:42I want to pay that for the factory and the brand. So I paid£750 ,000 to buy the brand and the factory. Okay. It was losing a couple of hundred grand a year. Okay. So they're looking. But that was five years ago. Okay. So they're looking at that again. You're going to give me£750 ,000 for all of this. How old were they? Well, they were not the original Rossi family. So this was the people that bought it off the Rossi family. Okay. And age group? They had enough? 65. Okay. we can't make this work, come and take it off us was it up to say or did you go what happened in Covid in my farm attraction we have a big barn that was a gift shop you know people leave the gift shop and they bump her in Covid we couldn't obviously run that so we turned it into a farm shop and we wanted to get local produce in so we rang Rossi which is like the ice cream of the East End, it is the ice cream of Essex and we said we'd like to put a load of ice cream for you and they said we've closed the factory down.

41:39What are you bloody doing? All anyone is doing is eating. That's because all we can do in COVID. And I said, look, when the factory gets reopened, we'll buy a load of ice cream off you. So four weeks later, you know, whatever the government done and they were paying people's wages, we got the thing back open. And I ordered literally the biggest order of ice cream, but about 10 % of it turned up. So I rang them up again. I said, what's going on? They said, yeah, that's the only flavours we're making. and I said, well, sort it out or let me buy the company and I'll sort it out. And then on the phone went, that's not a bad idea.

42:13Quality. So then I went to them and they owed 750 grand of debt. To who? All sorts. All sorts, just trying to fund the business. And I said, all right, I'll take the debt on. So I took the debt on. Did you know straight away that you'll be able to leverage that within your businesses? That's the first thing you thought. I thought it was going to be a lot easier. I thought I'm a marketeer. And that's when I realised that distribution is the most important thing. But do you know what? I've lost money on it. I've bought a new factory. I've bought a warehouse. I've put millions into Rossi and haven't had a dime out of it yet.

42:50All I've had is free ice cream. That's all I've had out of it. But it led me into food services. Are you testing the ice cream every day? No, I've lost over two staff. Mate, you have, mate. You look fantastic, by the way. It was good to see you yesterday at the Ideas Fest. Oh, yeah, it was good. When you wake up in the morning, what's the first thing you do? Always check bank balances across our group. Okay. I've probably done that since time began. Then I check emails. I do emails in bed for an hour and a half. Then I crack on. So I wake about 6.30. Yeah. Then three or four days a week, I have a PT.

43:34um so that usually leads into that if i'm if i've got a lot on um and i i'm trying to manage the thoughts i'd go and sit i've got a very lovely garden with a really established trees around me i live in an old rectory and i just move it's a big girl it's like seven acres and i just take a chair sit in the middle on my own solitary we've got a cocker spaniel and he comes and sits next to me and I just look at the trees and sometimes they give me the answers to whatever challenges there are. Do you feel like every time your phone goes you're thinking oh what's the problem now is there going to be a problem there or have you got management in place when you see a manager of a certain business say I need to have a chat James do you know something?

44:19No I don't get that so much anymore. No okay. No I don't get the the minutiae stuff and I you know I'm not good at that No, not on mine. But even like the director of that company saying, we need to have a chat, someone just left. Or has anyone ever stolen off you? Yeah, people steal from me all the time. And you'd be stupid to think otherwise when you have a company of my size. People would be lying about ours. They'd be stealing stock. All of that stuff happens. So I'm just aware of that. And I don't let that eat away at me. What do you mean hours? So in hospitality and leisure, managers will put down 11 hours instead of nine.

45:05It's their way of looking after their staff. But you've got to be on that stuff aggressively. When you get someone like my size, if say your payroll is a million pounds a month and you don't control it and you waste 10 % as 100 grand. Over a year. It's 1.2 million. So now my payroll is closer to 15 million pounds a year. You know, then it's, you know, 10 % of that. I mean, I don't even want to, let's talk about something else. You know, that is not fun. No, no. And I hate being like that. Yeah. Because I would rather just pay everyone as much as I possibly could. But the reality is I work in a quite a tough margin business where, you know, in our food services business, you know, we're putting on very low gross profits.

45:54We need to do scowl. So if we lose a pallet of stock for five grand, that's a lot. We have to probably sell 60 grand's worth of gear to make the five grand back. I looked this morning, Jimbo, on your YouTube channel. I went down the bottom and I saw you start in 2013. You're way ahead of the game. Way ahead. What made you want to start then? What did you see? I think I think content marketing really helps if you love it you know you have to really want to do it because this is hard it's a reps and sets game you it is a skill it is a skill the more I you know and when you're on stage I was on we was at a festival yesterday and I went straight back into entertainer I had to be a moderator for you know a particular section for an hour you know i was not briefed and my skill set of being an entertainer come out you know i was up and down the stage making everyone laugh you know using all my tonalities but when i sit here with you i'm it's a different type of entertainment because if i did that now people were there we don't watch this on youtube this place like acting like he's doing stand-up comedy jumping around on the stage you know like that just wouldn't wouldn't work and i had to learn that because, yeah, and these skill sets, these reps and sets have helped me understand that.

47:19I started out in 2013 from being a kids entertainer, being a magician, being a compere and stuff like that. And I thought, well, I really love business. I wrote a book, I wrote a business book back then called The Millionaire Clown. And then I got asked to speak at some conferences and I thought, I just want to do this. This is all I want to do is speak at conferences. And someone said to me, well the best way to get paid geeks at speaking at conferences is to have a social media following and i there's a guy called gary v i'm sure everyone knows him in entrepreneurship and i just thought he's great on camera he was like the pioneer of this space the first and uh i thought i could do that i could do that baby and i just started documenting what i was doing each day which was terrible to watch it wasn't done well and then over the eight ten years of making content we've harnessed it down and we understand and we are proud of our audience dodge you know we are not a broad audience you know we are not a broad audience we are for serious business owners they're ambitious they're quite comfortable investing a million quid borrowing a million pounds employing people taking on risk putting their own capital at risk you know um the the the believe that they are their own economy you know the people that go you know they're not playing the blame game They might have some challenges with the economy, but they go, I will master them.

48:42I will march into war and win this. And we are very proud of that audience. What has been it like for you becoming a face where you're all over the Internet? You've got your own podcast. We were both speaking yesterday and there's people coming up to us and want to have chats. How do you feel about that? Do you like it? I like it occasionally. I like it okay you know no like if I if I was out and about but when it's like all day you know I find that quite draining I find parties draining dodge I'm not good going to I just think if it's a fascinating conversation I'm all in like if you was at a party with say Daniel Priestley Richard Harpin Richard Branson I don't know Steve Jobs or you know someone that's done really stuff You know, these people that have got isms, you know, I want to be there all night.

49:36You know, that feeds me with energy. But I can't talk about the weather. I can't. I do struggle with that. I've got a very good friend who you met earlier. He always goes, I just left like a dog in the fog. And I think that's how I am. So, yeah, I want to will people on. I want people to be super successful, but I suppose I'm better with people that are actually going to be an implementer and go and do stuff. Talk to me about holidays. Do you enjoy holidays? I hate them. You hate holidays? I hate them. Does your missus like holidays? She loves them. Do your kids like holidays? Obviously. Where do you go on holiday and why do you hate them?

50:22I just... Why do you hate holiday? I'd rather... A couple of days, I'm all right. do you want to do like a three weeker in thailand or something or a month in no no like over a week would give me anxiety i just think i'd be bored i love my children i love my wife they're they're very precious to me but you know i'd much rather go for a weekend or an overnight somewhere i just it's just not me you know i just you know like laying on a beach doing naffle you know and if i was going on that it would be meticulously plan these are the podcasts i'm going to be listening this is the personal development the books i'm going to be reading i plan to try and write a book while i was there you know i just that's how i am dodge it's not that it's not that i you know i like going out for dinner you know i love being around people that i find interesting i'm not very good one of my things i'm not very good with what they call on the internet npcs you heard of this non-playing characters that's what that all the kids say.

51:26So in a video game, they're like the fake characters, don't they? And they're called NPCs, non-playing characters. I'm just not good with people that are waiting for it to happen. I'm good with people that make it happen. Makes it happen. I feed off of them. Feed off the energy, isn't it? Massively. I like doers. I like people who do something today. We were talking about mentorship yesterday, weren't we? And you were mentoring, but then you said to me, you know what? it actually done my head in yeah i you know i do i love mentoring one to many i love doing seminars and i you know there are i have coached and mentored lots and lots of people one-to-one over the years if i find them amazing individuals that are already on their way but just need some tweaky stuff like a non-exec director that i do enjoy but i certainly don't go into the world seeking that not one iota do you know a little phrase i was just thinking it was that little bit we was talking about there you know that phrase if you want something done ask a busy person yeah they're the people i like yeah yeah hobbies what hobbies you do i still love magic yeah um you know i i just love watching magic and doing that although i don't really do it anymore more like stage magic-y stuff, you know, because that was my past.

52:51Walking amongst trees, I find that a very good, fulfilling thing. And just scientifically proven that trees do give off a chemical when you walk around them, so they actually genuinely are good for you to walk amongst forests. It's now been proven. And I love my camper van. I've got a fantastic camper van, which is now my mobile work office. So I drive that to work. I mean, I've got an all-singing, all-dancing Range Rover, but I've also got a Swift Trekker Transit Ford thing that's just beautiful, you know. I can make the cup of tea with Yorkshire Gold, which is my favourite tea, with the blue milk that I like in the cup that I particularly like.

53:34Strange, aren't I? No, not really. I get it. I get it, mate. I totally get it.

53:44Do you think you're strange? yeah very much i don't think you are come on no i don't think you are i know you say you're i don't think you are i totally get you but because you will be it's because i mean you are in a very small section of people probably about 150 000 of us exist out of the 70 million that live in the uk that go i'm going to do this yeah i'm going to put risk capital on the line I'm going to work incredibly hard and might not get reward for a couple of years I might even lose money but we're still going to go and do it which is not usual I just think of things that I I'm going to fly to China to find these products and then I'm going to buy them or then I'm going to work out how to sell it I just thought it was like I remember seeing you I think you went to India.

54:39No that was China. Oh was it China? Yeah. What was the woman you dressed up in you were outside a train station no no it wasn't a train that was a trade show and you're just that person was selling no but you were dressed up in all the clobber so that actually made my day yeah yeah this bloke was selling basically bodies to look like dodge that's that's what he was selling and like um fake bum implants for women yeah these were silicon and oh my God, that thing was so hard to put on. Maybe we'll have to send you it so you can put it over the shop because people will not have a clue what we're talking about.

55:17And yeah, it was a fake muscle body. And I was in the middle of, it's called Canton Fair, which is the world's biggest trade show in Canton, just about two hours above Hong Kong, where I was sourcing products, Dodge. And I saw this and this guy was, he was a Mexican guy selling it and i said let me try it on and then he didn't realize the clown that he chose it and i was doing little dances and things and he was trying to sell it and all that and i just wanted to be the you know the idiotic clown but yeah my god it was hard to get that on and off but you made you look great tell me about the the event you're putting on obviously this will go out later but for people for next year tell me about the event you put on in london on the 16th 17th september so every september we put on an event called business masterclass and it's everything that i've learned in 20 years in two days these are serious business owners um it's a you know there's lots of business seminars that i used to go to when i was starting out in a first to understand knowledge and they used to just give you like the basics and they would always upsell you onto a secret course that yeah yeah and i didn't want to do that so i'd you know i charged 500 quid to come to one of my seminars but i teach you everything that most people would that's not a lot no no it's not and we feed them yeah and we feed them uh so you're not doing it for the money not really you're doing it to help people yeah you need to cover your costs and it's good and we make a load of content from it because we get snippets from it because it's recorded and we get like 300 very good entrepreneurs and business owners come along that's serious about growth um and we have handles bank and coots hsbc revolute do a funding panel with me so we do like you know the delegates say look i want to buy this business i want to fund this have you got any ideas they got four serious business bank managers like that are looking after proper clients go well have you thought about this have you thought about that very valuable stuff that i've never seen done anywhere else we have um you know what do you need to do to get your business ready for sale how do you grow the profitability how do you get your teams to be more profitable how do you buy commercial property and all of that then i run another single day called buying businesses mascots where i do a whole day just telling people how to buy businesses just you on stage yeah so it's me from nine in the morning till six or seven and it's you know i'm in year four now yeah sales out it's always good um and i think energy genuinely change people's lives yeah Yeah, you do.

57:52I've heard. It's the energy you bring on stage. Yeah. And your knowledge. Yeah. Like, anyone listening out there, you must go and check out this masterclass. It's fabulous. That's very kind of you. Really, really is. I like doing, when I was doing Ideas Fest yesterday, so I was moderating a panel. Yeah. And these guys, it was people, it was all about what to do to prepare your business for sale and what things went wrong. So there's four people that sold their business. I've sold a theme park, so I knew quite about it. and I've sold other things. And so I was the moderator. And these four, they actually didn't know who I was.

58:27Lots of the audience did. And they thought, what is this crazy guy? You know, but I honestly think it was one of the best sessions at Ideas Fest because I could bring that entertainment and I'm in the audience asking the questions and the moderators are up there. So I try and bring massive energy to my seminars because otherwise they're going to be very boring. I want people to go away with like at least three things they can implement straight away to absolutely increase profitability.

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1:00:12Who do you look up to? I'd like to look up to my future self to that I've done good things. I've been a good human being. I think that's a very important thing that we can do. Who do I look up to? I mean, back in the day, you know, I was following all the fabulous entrepreneurs that, you know, I used to sort of look at Richard Branson. And reading Losing My Virginity at 16, which is his sort of book, gave me permission to employ people and find people that can do things better than me. So I was very thankful to read that. But I've always looked up to him. But I've never met him. I never met him.

1:00:53I actually had a chance to spend a week with him on NECA this year. And my diary didn't allow. But, you know, who do I look up to? I look up to good people that get things done. And there's a number of them. There's a couple of staff that I massively look up to that work for me, Jengi and Aaron and some of my team that are really good people. How do you explain, like behind every good entrepreneur, you've got to have a good missus or other half. How do you explain your wife and how does she deal with you? She doesn't know what I do day to day. I don't expect her to understand anymore. I don't even tell her if I've bought.

1:01:33I mean I bought a big roller skating rink it's one of the best in the country I bought the freehold of it it was a 2.5 million pound deal I went home that I didn't even bother saying it's boring now I don't mean that to be boastful they don't want to hear about it they want Jimbo the husband rather than the businessman it's just like when I bought Cafe Deli they sort of find out by us but what I have with that is someone that has definitely got my back yeah 100 she's a very strong woman dodge you know that a much stronger woman than i ever thought i would you know she can stand her ground and that's kind of in the right situation so we might come to loggerhead sometimes over that but it's difficult being with someone like us you know or me you know someone that you know is is a workaholic you know but they you know she you know she's i'm very thankful for her and thankful for our children you know it's good to know that i trust her implicitly yeah which is lovely they know we're obsessed they just know that and they know how to deal with us yeah but but but really what how do we understand us is my work wives that are just as important yeah i mean that's a metaphor yeah i haven't i don't want anyone thinking to tell him yeah yeah it's not I've got, you know, Janky, Leah, Tracy, David Wong, another one of our accountants, you know, Julian Kelly, people that have, you know, worked in my accounts and my PA and Janky, my commercial director.

1:03:11Those people have been so pivotal to really understand, you know, because it is tough doing this. This is not for the faint-hearted. Give me your top three businesses. If you lost everything, what are the top three businesses you want to keep? So you know where you're very cagey about money and how much you make and, you know, all of that stuff? Cagey in what way? When I come on your podcast. I think you're a cagey-saurus. No, no, no. When I come on your podcast, your first question was what? How much money did you make? I can't leave it. Yeah, I mean, look. Give me your top three. Dodge, the reason I'm going to be reticent to answer that.

1:03:50That sounds like you. Is because. You've changed. If there's over 2 ,000 staff that watch this. Okay, I get it. Yeah, okay. They'll think, why am I not in that category? So I'm very, very protective of those conversations. If you sold your whole group to someone, sold her group, and you're in a lovely position to say, I'd like to take those three back, what would they be? Because that's the same thing. But what I will tell you is I like businesses that you have margin, you have regularity of customers. I think the best business is where people buy from you four times in quick succession. i wouldn't like bournemouth sevens because you know once a year yeah i just can't we do we the festival right bournemouth sevens we do 362 days to earn all your money on three days to earn all your profit in the last day yeah yeah that gives me the heebie-jeebies i remember coming on yours you're like what repeat that again yeah yeah so the i like businesses where people buy from you in four times in quick succession it's a love want and need business and crucially this is the big one that gives you a big indicator that you're in a good business sector do opm other people's money want to buy the thing that you're building so so always does private equity really like the thing that you're building do banks like funding the thing that you're building there's a very good good sort of um hook to hang your hat on if a bank goes yeah i'd really like to fund that that can be a good sign that someone would want to buy your business and so i always say to our business owners you're building your business to sell even even if you have no intention of selling it yeah there's a good discipline like drinking water is a good discipline i think that one is a is a good discipline are you happy half the time half the time yeah i have become very good at leaning into pain i think successful entrepreneurs you know they see the pain and they know they're actually going to go in let's have it yeah i'm very comfortable i'm very happy being uncomfortable i enjoy being uncomfortable because we've never had a job so we don't know any difference so when i hear entrepreneurs talking again it's the hardest thing in my life i can't believe i'm doing lunch i don't we don't know anything you don't have any stresses do you really dodge now i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm a really happy person yeah i can see yeah because i mean you work intensely hard for 10 days a year don't you really now but like it's the iceberg effect as you've seen.

1:06:18But I'm 18 years, coming into my 19th year as a festival owner. Yeah. You know, those first five years were brutal. But you, so like, what are you doing just making podcasts now? Yeah. I just, I just, I'm lucky that we have a festival at the end of May, so it's the start of the summer. So if our festival was in August, it would be like, oh God, this is painful, we've got to work away for the summer. I was at the first festival of the festival season. And then, once you finish that festival and everything's success, the team wrap it all up and away you go again launch a new website in september and away you go again trying to get 400 odd rugby netball hockey dodgeball volleyball teams in and then you put on the big axe and then you put on obviously celebrities and you put on a couple of million quid putting the festival on and you go again and we're still independently owned that's good isn't it yeah what do you so you said earlier that you wanted to buy a business Are you genuine or are you just asking because I'm on?

1:07:13No. One, because you're on. I'm hooked up yesterday and it just triggered me. It makes me go, I love building businesses like the podcast. I don't know where this is going. We're coming into year five now, completing year five next week. Do you really want to buy a business? I would want to buy a business if I got excited by it. I think what's really important if you want to do that, and this is what I sort of tell business owners and entrepreneurs, when's your investing day? you know you've got to go out in the car and go and see these things you know you can't just do it via google desktop research you've got to actually physically i'm trying to work out what would excite me because that's that's really important i've got businesses that have excited me for 30 years whether it's the nightclub world for 10 years whether it's the festival world whether it's a create a sportswear brand and so that or online events course or this media company i've been around the block for for three plus decades as you as you have how old are you now I'm in my 40s.

1:08:10Are you closer to 50 than 40? Midway. 45. Mate, you look really good. Mate, you look good too, mate. Yeah, you look better. There's a little bromance going on in there. Jimbo, before you finish off, where can people find you? They can find me on YouTube, James Sinclair. I've got a second channel now on YouTube called James Sinclair Podcast or Business Broadcast. So my podcast is where I coach business owners on their three challenges on how I would grow their business. Yeah. And those three challenges? Well, they could be anything. They could be anything. Give me the three challenges. Yeah. Write it out.

1:08:45You look at it and go, fantastic. Come on the podcast and I'll help you fire through this. Absolutely. And you're very good at it. Thanks, mate. Yeah. I think I wanted to do a podcast and I wanted to do it in a different way. I didn't want to just do, you know, interview people that are super successful because I think a lot of people are in the trenches. I want to hear stories of people that are in the trenches. is we have every sector of business you can possibly imagine. People that own day nurseries, to people that are running a Travis Perkins type business, to running a solicitors firm, an accountancy firm, recruitment firm, festivals, coffee shops, restaurants, the lot.

1:09:23And so I think there's always good lessons from other sectors. And you go, I might be able to swipe and deploy that from that coffee shop and use it in my builder's merchant. And I think there's some good stuff. When I started it five years ago doing the pod, I used to ask every business owner that come on the pod, how do you get your first customer? And they would always come up with a very good old-fashioned answer. Oh, I knocked on the door. I posted some letters. I picked up the phone. I pounded the streets, and I got my customers. I got some cash flow. And what we've found out with business owners is they do this, and then they go through this lazy stage or easier stage of becoming an operator of their business rather than growing their business.

1:10:04Don't. So we've put it back in now. We've got a jingle on everything. It's a fantastic jingle. It says, how did you get your first customer? How did you? How did you? I don't do it. JB, who works with me. And so we found, and this is the interesting thing, they all say something really good, you know like any entrepreneur would love the little story of bounded the streets done this sent some direct mail out and then we say follow up do you still do that and nearly all of them say don't do that anymore how stupid is that it's funny isn't it i was bounding the streets for 10 years fly yeah yeah and posting people think you'd be like the five quid flyer boy but you're taking all the dorm money on the nightclubs yeah yeah it's funny i'm a big fan i'm a big fan i love flyering i think postering going back old school because everyone there's so much on the internet now on so much social media people are getting lots of adverts yeah go back old school that's interesting thing i um i asked because i'm doing a video tomorrow it's called what what businesses will ai not change in the next five years because everyone's asking that so i actually asked ai we've put it into the video what's not going to change in the next five years your type of business is going to be amazing food services is going to be amazing and i actually think you know we've seen over the last 10 years, everyone putting money into SaaS products.

1:11:21I think private equity, venture capital are going to be looking for new homes for their money. Yeah, I agree. If you've got a traditional type steady-eddy business, I think they're going to motor on in value over the next 10 years. Let's hope so. I do because that money is going to be looking for a home. You can't fake a live event. No. You can fake lots of other businesses. You can't fake a live event or a festival. And what we've got to get very good at, gang, if you are a Bricks and Clicks customer is bringing the correct clicks into your bricks you know you've got it where can you use technology to help your traditional business and i still think there's a lot of opportunity to do that especially when you buy old established companies and put that you know magic sparkle that you've got your entrepreneurialism into that business jimbo i've absolutely loved this mate thank you i just love your company i love your energy i love you too i think you're really you're one of life's good guys you know i get asked to come on lots of podcasts now uh well every week people and i i'm very fussy about where we put our stuff and chad's who's like my director of this part of our business you know whenever it's dodge the answer is yes you know it's like we don't even have to think because i know that you genuinely want to help people and that's important i would love to see you i don't want to carry on to the conversation here but i'd love to see the government come to you for advice on businesses well i would love to help them do yeah because it frustrates the hell out of me and i think people like us could really help yeah really really help the genuine businesses out there who are trying to make profit trying to make ends meet trying to run a business as entrepreneurs and business owners because the government don't get it even the big banks don't even get it how do we do that i'll tell you just to finish off, I'm a big fan.

1:13:06Look, governments need money to run the thing. We want our potholes fixed. We want our kids to have schools. We want police officers and fire services. Look, I don't think governments can get value for money. They're not as good as individuals. They think they can spend folks' money better than them. And they're never around long enough. I mean, we're in now... Four years. It's not long enough. I wish it was four years. I mean, if you look up, we've had like ten prime ministers in the last 15. years or whatever it is we can't even keep a deputy prime minister for a shake over a year again we've had more chances so no one's ever around long enough to implement the long-term visions yeah um so there's that but very simply i have this little methodology and whenever i speak to mps and ministers and i do get the opportunity to do that quite often is we want to tax profit not turnover yeah we are nice wouldn't it taxed on turnover way too much so people going out there having a go you think about this i always tell this little story just just just break down because this could get complicated for some people break down turnover taxes in a real simple form so v80 yes break it down for the listener so there's v80 there's business rates there's insurance premium break down business rates roughly 50 of your rent of your basically yeah so if you so give an example so you go and rent a shop out for 20 grand 50 grand you'll be paying 25 grand to the local council and business rates.

1:14:30And their business rates. BAT. 20 % of your turnover. Yes. And then once you've done that, corporation tax as a business? Well, but the corporation tax is a tax on profit. On profit. So let's leave that one for sale because there's lots of other turnover taxes. Employers' national insurance contributions. That's a terrible tax. So you do a good thing for society. You employ someone. Employ someone for 100 grand. And we'll punish you for that. I'll charge you 15 grand. I want 15 grand for the government every year. Absolutely. That one there is... That one there... So I'm going to put that in the turnover taxes category as well.

1:15:03That's an awful tax. But there's other turnover taxes that people don't even realise. There's insurance premium tax. You get an insurance policy out on your business. You've got a fleet of vehicles. That costs you 100 grand a year. You're paying 13.5 % on top of that as another turnover tax to insure your business. It's disgusting. That is disgusting. And what's really annoying, Dodge... I mean, you get me going. Yeah, yeah. 20 years ago, insurance premium tax wasn't a thing. What's it about? There's a Gordon Brown introduced that. How's that crept to 13.5 %? It started at 2.5 % or it might be 5%.

1:15:33I'm sure someone's going to tell me. And it's just gone up and up and up and up. So you are charged a turnover tax to insure your business. What about green levy tax? Whatever you're paying a percentage of your electric bill as a turnover tax. Hold on. Green levy tax? Go on. It's green levy tax. So you've got 100%. On what sort of businesses? So all of your electric has a green levy turnover tax on it. Okay. So I think it's 5%. So whatever your electric bill is, it's 5 % of that. It might be even more than that now. So you've got your green levy tax. Fuel, every time you fill up your vans. You've got fuel duty on there, VAT on there, another turnover tax.

1:16:14So the turnover taxes, there's many, many of them that just creep away, that you're paying before you've made a dime yourself. Now, what's really interesting, a lot of people say, well, you're just collecting the VAT. It's not your money. But I always try and explain to people, well, you buy in zero rated. Say you run a restaurant. You buy in some tomatoes, some mozzarella, some basil. That's all zero rated. But as soon as you put it on a plate, put some balsamic on it, it's now become vatable. If you go over to Germany, if you go over to France, if you go over to Ireland or Spain, they're paying lower levels of leisure and tourism tax compared to here in the UK.

1:16:51Roughly half of what we're paying. And so that's why restaurants, hospitality and leisure last a lot longer in Europe, because they're paying less turnover taxes. Now, they actually might pay more corporation tax than us, but I actually don't mind. If you're a business owner, we've made a million quid this year. You can have your tax. You can have your tax. I get it. Have it. Take that. But don't sting me before I even get there. That's what I mean. And why is it like, for example, in America, I think here it's 40 % average. If you get to 50 grand, you're paying 40 % tax. In America, if you hit 500 grand, you're paying 40 % tax.

1:17:23something along that and then when I look at the Americans we've got entrepreneurs like us who have been grafted in for years I see some Americans out there going yeah I'm worth 10 million quid I'm a free market I've got all these cars and big houses and all that I think you haven't been taxed to the hilt taxed to the hilt for all these years no but you know the real frustrating thing as well is we are the United Kingdom I think one of the world's best kept secrets we have talented people we have a big population We have the City of London. We have banking systems, legal systems. Most of the world's banking and legal systems are all based on ours anyway.

1:17:59But didn't they all used to, in other countries, you think their legal system is corrupt over there, corrupt. Do you feel now the UK, with people looking at us corrupt over here? No, I don't think they do. I think they do trust us still. Do you trust the legal system? More or less, yes, I do. I think we, and we have a lot of talented people over here. And there's some really good news over here. We're an untapped opportunity of magnitude. Magnitude. Americans trust us. The Australians trust us. China even trusts us. Most of Europe, even with forgetting Brexit. We are such an opportunity. And someone just needs to go, this is the opportunity.

1:18:36Let's shake it up and go, go, go, go. Tweak this, tweak this, tweak this, go. All the entrepreneurs go for it. We've got to stop the politics of envy. That's what we got. So someone's successful. Let them be here. I want to attract as many successful people and keep them in our country to grow our economy. I looked the other night, 1 ,350 millionaires leaving per month in the UK. They're disgusting. How bad is that? That's so sad. That's so sad. Would you ever leave? No, I don't think I would. I've thought about it. I would leave for health reasons. You know, if I needed to be in warmer climates in the future, I've heard, you know, that I think is a genuine reason.

1:19:14but I love this country and I want to make it better and I want to be a part of making it better. I am drawn to, I've been asked to do politics stuff. I was asked to be the mayor of Essex, which is a serious job, by the way. And I got through into the final candidacy and that was for the Conservative Party and I thought I could shake them up because they're not Conservatives anymore. You know, I want a low tax, low regulation, high entrepreneurial economy that everyone benefits from. How long do you think it will take for us to get back to how it was when we were all bussed? Oh, I think the pendulum is starting.

1:19:4915, 16, 17, 18, 20, 19. I think the desire to get back there is strong now. Well, it has to be. Most businesses who are going bust or just going, I've had enough, you're telling me we've got another thousand days of this? Or do you think it's going to improve over the next thousand days before labour goes out? In many ways, it getting bad in the long term could be good because it would make people never think about going back there. Or make people think about not going back into business again because they've left and gone, you know, I've given it a go. How many people in 2020? You're never going to be employed, are you?

1:20:24No. No. So I think you have to remember you are your own economy. That is, but things, you go through these years that things are tougher than other years. But do you know what? Do you know what? Smooth seas do not make skilled sailors. And a little bit of this every now and then. shakes it up does make you resourceful because i think the best you know it's not about your lack of resources it's your lack of resourcefulness that stops you from being super successful and you know if you can get through these tough times absolutely it does give you some scars we've all got plenty of scars but i think the frustration at the moment there's a huge amount of frustration i agree there is frustration i'm frustrated you know people have got less money in their pockets or their do you know one of the biggest and the baddest thing that this particular government have done is they've taken the wind out of people's cells.

1:21:15Forgetting the money, just, they have put people in a mindset of scarcity. That is the worst thing. And trust. Trust has gone. Trust has gone. And I'm the most positive person like yourself. Trust has gone. Which is sad. Mate, let's not go deep into this because we're here for a couple of hours. But I've really enjoyed your company, Jim. I think you're one of the best entrepreneurs in the country. I really do mean this I think you should be on TV on a weekly slot somewhere It's called YouTube isn't it? No I know it's called YouTube and it's gone that way but you should be snapped up by someone you should be snapped up by someone to give this information out and make people feel good about themselves Well you're doing it we've got to do it on our own YouTube channels YouTube is the future It is the future It's like having your own TV I've got a little interesting fact or quote to finish off so you can play along with me all right go on what is the annual revenue of the walk disney company so let me give you some bits and bobs here so that's theme parks cruise ships toys merchandise and disney plus and making movies come on have a guess does it is it is it is it i'm just throwing out 100 bill it's 57 billion that's the size of not far 57 billion what do you think the revenue of netflix is globally so you had a little clue there 57 yeah but that that includes theme parks cruise ships yeah i'm not you know i'm trying to make you an independent thinker 20 39 billion okay okay so what do you think the annual revenue of youtube is

1:23:01well i'm gonna really give it some 150 bill it's 50 billion oh 50 okay 50 okay here's the thing yeah netflix 39 billion 50 57 but of that 57 there's a lot of theme parks in there there's a lot of merchandise a lot of cruise ships so therefore youtube is the biggest media company in the world. And here's another fascinating fact of that little collection. What does Netflix make? Well, they're going to make The Crown and Stranger Things. What does Disney make? They'll make A Lion King and all of that stuff. What do YouTube make? Nothing. They rely on people like us. Yeah. I just find that. Yeah, that is fascinating.

1:23:39Fascinating. Brilliant, brilliant fact. So it's us a lot. Yeah. And they're the world's biggest media. They've got more eyeballs than anyone. Yeah. I think Spotify are going to get bigger. You mentioned that yesterday because we're not on Spotify video. and we're thinking of getting them putting on video on spotify i actually watched one the other day i really enjoyed it it's a different experience watching spotify with video than it is actually watching youtube for some weird reason even though it's on the same no spotify spotify wants some of the um youtube playbook and i think they're going to get it and we are big shout out to spotify as well they put human beings to have a chat with you to help you if you're a creator so simple right I mean, you really do appreciate it.

1:24:23People still want to talk to someone. Jimbo, love this, mate. Thank you. I wish you all the best. Lots of love, mate. You're a good man. Thank you, mate. Nice one. Cheers, Jimbo. If you'd like to see someone on the show, leave a comment below. And if you haven't already, do us a favour, show us a bit of love, press the subscribe button, and it allows us to grow the show even bigger and bigger each week. Nice one.