FOUNDER #21. From £20M to £260M in 8 Years: Wealth Manager Grows Family Business - Sean Standerwick

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1:27and loads of tax breaks. You know, I've had clients who've come on, you know, 100, 200 ,000 and today they've got over a million. What impact do you think has happened in the UK over the last three or four years? The tax side of things has become a lot less favourable. What they've done is squeeze business owners. I mean, we're living in the highest tax burden since World War II. People don't realise what impact this is going to have. What would you actually do? What would you break down? Well, let's just go through a few of them by using ISA allowances. Pensions. Are you recommending that people listening to this should have a pension?

1:57Okay, I've got to be a little bit careful because I'm regulated. Generally speaking.

2:06Hey, guys. We've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands. If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video. We've also left the link below as well. Sean, welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for having me. Good. Very much looking forward to this. Let's roll all the way back.

2:36How did you end up getting your business from 20 million to 260 million in just 10 years? How do we do that? So we changed our business model. So we originally just had an old school advisory financial planning firm where we'd look after people's money and we just might check in with them in five years. We didn't have any ongoing service with them. We then realized there was an opportunity in the market to actually offer an ongoing service where we can manage their investments and add a lot of value. and so we we went through our client bank and we moved them over to this new model of service where they had a better portfolio better level of service and we've just accelerated that through the years so i came on within the business but actually ended up buying it out as we have done so what we say is we're a 43 year old business with a startup mentality fantastic yeah what a great one-liner that is so just to break it down what is wealth management what is is it if you broke that down in simple terms for the listener what actually is it yeah it's a really good question and you know different firms do different things what you know we're doing is i mean essentially our goal is to give people financial peace of mind right like that's why you do it but what is it well it's it's looking after your finances it's building personal wealth so you You know, for example, business owners, you might be really successful, you got your head down, but actually missing out on loads of tax breaks, building personal wealth that also then allows you to do your business side of things really well.

4:18So it's building the personal wealth. It's making sure you and your family are looked after. You're not paying too much tax. And we really look to partner with people as a business partner. So is there certain categories? is if I came to you for example I said oh Sean could I would like to work with you on my finances financial planning what would you actually do what would you break down yeah it's a really good question so what we do to start with is we have just a quick introductory chat just to see if it's likely we can help you or not if we can't we're pointing you in a direction we always look to give people something if we can then what we do is we get you to complete what's called a fact find just information on you and then we have you in for a free consultation and there we can actually work out exactly how we can help you in more depth we obviously go through needs and objectives but i'm looking at your whole situation you know have you got any investments have you got any cash what are you worth have you got an IHT problem what's a problem uh inheritance we can go into that in a bit yeah sorry if i try not to use that but yeah yeah that's a killer and you know from next year pensions come into the estate and people don't realize what impact this is going to have and what do you think what impact do you think has happened in in the uko over the last three or four years for entrepreneurs and founders unfortunately i don't think it's a very nice environment and the problem we have is it's looking a lot nicer elsewhere i still think this is an amazing country it's got so much to give but you know the tax side of things has become a lot less favorable what they've done is squeeze business owners to make them more like an employee yet you're taking all that risk you've got all the stress you work generally a lot harder etc on the same side of things you know the red tape or even just being an employer and you have to be really careful with your employees even a non-performer or something and how you deal with them you know in the US it's just a lot easier it's all favored towards business owners I just use that as an example so i think the environment's become a lot harder there are still loads of things you can do though that's the really good news and why it's even more important i mean we're living in the highest tax burden since world war ii so if you just leave it on the table you're going to get hammered so regarding the taxes of what's happening in the uk how do you explain what has gone on since new government has come on board well let's just go through a few of them um i mean we were just briefly had a chat didn't we before we came on the school fees yeah 20 on that so suddenly you know i know look in the grand scheme of things people paying school fees have got more money but we're talking about people generally who earn those kinds of money to send their children to private school who work really hard even if they're not a business owner and now what you're doing is making them pay an even more tax everything's gone up in cost but whacking 20 percent on school fees so now think about it for you for you to afford that you've got to take out you know like another it's not 20 percent extra you've got to earn double that to get it yeah that's one small example if you talk about business so for example there if you are a private school say if your kid goes to a private school between the age of eight and i'm just throwing average sums here if you're going to private school between the age of eight and 13 parents will be paying roughly 15 to 18 grand yeah more when you get older yeah and then when you go from 13 to 18 you go to private school people are paying like 40 or grand I know people who are who are working two three jobs to put their kids into private school which is wonderful but then they're getting clobbered with another 20 % on top yeah parents are going I just can't do it let's go let's go into let's go into grammar school let's go into your normal your normal school and then that's putting pressure back on the schools absolutely so no one's winning so who actually from you being an expert when you look in do you think some of the things that have been brought to the table by the government are just ridiculous so it's not thought out properly i think well it's ridiculous from a logical economical point of view why do i think they did it it was because they said they would in a manifesto and that was a vote winner i mean one thing i will give them is they stuck to the word for the first time and then any government how many of them actually follow through i don't think they did it for economical reasons personally because it doesn't make sense you know my son's school he was at the preschool and there was the main school they closed the preschool down and they've merged them loads of people as you said not loads are quite a few in his school have left uh when when they made that jump and i know across the board you know and i've looked at statistics i don't remember them from the top of my head but many people have left that private sector now then as you say that puts far more pressure on the public sector what i think one of the things is slightly cultural in in england the uk and again just using it i'm not an expert on the us but my understanding and my experience as the us is that they really respect you if you're a business owner and high earner it's like oh how did you do it yeah it's not teach us yeah whereas in england it's a bit more like oh well they got loads of money let's tax them more and it's it's kind of like a jealousy envy culture and look this isn't everyone but i think that's what's led to this kind of environment we're in at the moment you know i always find i always find weird when i look at good entrepreneurs in the uk i'm like go on you're doing fantastic go on mate go on she's doing wonderful and then look at the same entrepreneurs in america and they seem to have a lot more money than British entrepreneurs do.

10:07And then when you look at it, break it down, I think it was Daniel said to me, like, it's, it's, it's, we get charged 40%, anything over 50 grand here, what you earn. And I think in America, he was saying that you have to earn 500 grand before you get charged 40 % tax. So how much, how much more breathing space have you got? Yeah. Being an American entrepreneur to know you can put that money in your bank account rather than the government take it. Just think of it's 50 grand equivalent to 500 grand. It just it blew me away when he told me that yeah it's crazy like you hear someone oh they earned 400 grand or something like that and people say oh they got loads of money well you've lost half of it yeah more because of all the tax so actually then when you talk about oh what if you do send your child to a private school um you know and with everything going up in cost it actually doesn't go that far yeah and um yes i think it's a real issue um you know there are other taxes you know dividend taxes have now been squeezed you know many years ago unfortunately kind of before i because i started off as a contractor so i've had a limited company for many years but i missed out on the biggest breaks but it just slowly they've squeezed it as i used to get that personal allowance it's just got smaller and smaller then they've increased the taxes and now if you're a higher rate taxpayer there's a dividend and you're taking from your business as business owners typically do then you're almost paying 40 it's like just taking an income and and like the idea of look you're a business owner you probably like the control right i might have a bit of cash in the business what am i going to do i'm going to reimburse i'm going to take it out and look these people aren't stupid they understand numbers business owners whether they're they're maximizing everything because they have the knowledge or time to is a different question but they just won't take the money out or they'll do other things and many people up and leave so yeah again it's just about being sensible about these things i think we're you know it feels like something's got to change at some point doesn't it i feel where we are at the moment it has to change i've been in business 30 years never had a job or just built my own brands and businesses something's got to change you know i'm seeing good friends of mine good business good business and entrepreneur people around me going what's the point what's the point i'm you know what i'm just going to say there's no point we're working all year to give the money to give government money to the government i'm not earning anything at the end of the year it's crazy yeah so what do you do so when how do you break it down if someone comes to see you and says can you break down my wealth can you break down the money i'm bringing in i'm taking this amount of dividends each year or i'm looking to sell my company um i'm looking at the entrepreneurs relief tax relief would you just break everything down and say look we can invest your money into certain areas as well is that what you do yeah so there are different stages to things uh i'll probably start with your point around when you're looking to exit because often when you exit you might have a large lump sum and that could be millions and then suddenly i mean i've got a client who came on recently 1.6 million who he sold it for 1.6 um i'm not sure exactly what he sold because he sold before he came to me okay but he's got 1.6 in assets and yeah he had like a million or a bit more at least from the sale and um yeah he he just didn't know what to do and he's he's someone who just worked really hard his whole life he's not had a lot of money throughout his whole life and suddenly had this lump sum he's slightly cautious and so you can think if you've worked really hard your whole life and suddenly you've got a lump sum because you've worked really hard that you're going to be a bit worried about what to do with that money so you know I um I sat down with him and I mean he had worked with a financial advisor but he was missing out on a lot of things I mean he had a poor portfolio but if someone comes to me and they're exiting a business we can help invest that money tax efficiently okay yes also we can prepare ahead of that so where I said we're like a business partner would be where I'd look to put you in contact with someone legally and maybe an accountant who can actually help with that process of exiting the business i mean i went through what's known a management buyout so the business i work in we're a family business set up by my father yeah 43 years ago me and my brother bought him out and we're still buying him out uh through what's known as a management buyout so we can raise those conversations but it all starts with what are you what are your objectives and sometimes people don't know so yeah if someone comes to me in a different part of their journey i mean one thing i would say the sooner you start the journey the better because as soon as you start the journey speaking to someone yeah for financial planning and you start doing yeah okay so like as an example just some very basic things are you using isa allowances okay so everyone gets 20 000 pounds per year they can put into an isa tax-free tax-free so just break that down if you are so the first 20 grand yeah zero tax and you can put that in a separate account yeah okay you can put it in an account you can be an iso millionaire and whether you grow it to whatever you draw an income from it you cash it all in any growth all tax-free so that's just something and if you think if you're married you've got a partner you that's 40 grand also children there's an allowance for children of nine thousand pounds per year and how old does a child have to be they don't have to have a minimum age for a junior isa okay uh and then you get to um when you get to a i think it's 18 you have a full isa allowance of 20 000 pensions now a lot of people the amount of people i have they say oh pensions are boring i never believed in them well did you know that you know there are different ways of putting different amounts in i mean everyone has 60 000 pounds they can put into a pension yeah you have to have the earnings by the way again everyone has up to 60 000 pounds to put into a pension is that what you're saying yes tax-free okay so let's explain this yeah let's talk from a business point of view if you've got money in your business and you put it into a pension it now it will come off for corporation tax so it will come off your profit sorry okay so you won't pay corporation tax which is either 19 or 25 so immediately you save that you also think you don't pay in drawing it out we're talking a bit about dividend tax can be nearly 40 so you don't pay any of that tax it comes straight out of your business as really a business expense okay straight into a pension straight into a pension and what does that pension get you so what is the point of having a pension well because you can invest it so first of all you can you can actually potentially put 240 000 in there um there are different things and you can throughout years what what does that get you well you can invest it um that are you talking about what can you get in terms of investment returns yeah well actually is that you're putting that pension away what for for a later later on in life yeah okay that's a good question so now it's age 57 that you can access it so you can't touch your pension to the age of 57 of all the money you keep plowing into it yeah so that is that's a downside to it and that's got to be part of your planning and that's why isis also have a place and there are other things you can do but these are the first two go-tos okay so if you think if you're plowing 20 grand at least maybe 40 into isis each year and you're plowing 60 grand into a pension every year i mean it's a bit of a no-brainer we came to the end of when we took over the business our first year and you know we'd had a good year and even our accountant said to us yeah you should put some money in your pension and we worked out the savings um on the corporation tax even though we want to reinvest in the business etc etc well it's just a no-brainer so and look doesn't have to be the full amount um one thing i'm really big on is i've kind of called it wealth habits of just a monthly contributions put it on autopilot that so you don't so you're not you're not feeling it you're just going bam exactly okay on a dd basically yeah okay yeah and you can do it both you can do it both for pensions isas and any other investments are you are you recommending that people listening to this should have a pension okay i've got to be a little bit careful because i'm i'm regulated yeah generally speaking yes is the answer yeah um why not um your look i see the difference between people starting off when they're younger and the older you get the harder it is to build up money yes look if you'll get to an older age and you've got more money in your business it's easier to extract it but you know and that can be part of your extraction plan as well of exiting the business maximize what you can get into pensions some quite clever things where you can even potentially put a bit more in as well so yeah i think i think everyone should have a pension definitely i mean that's why that actually one positive thing the government did do many years ago was auto enrollment meaning everyone had to enroll in a pension and at least they have some minimum amounts going in so roll back a bit you mentioned that you did a management buyout i'm really intrigued to find out what a management buyer actually looks like especially with inside the family yeah yeah so it all started with i mean we had a bit of a family thing my brother i don't think it probably mind me sharing but unfortunately his wife passed away and he was off work when when did she when when she passed away it was during covid so it's 2020 so he was out of the business for a bit and we just obviously let him do what he needed to do.

19:57I mean, he's handled it incredibly. He's got three kids. But that then... What's his name? Paul. Massive shout out to Paul. Respect. Yeah, and now I've got massive respect for him. I don't know how he does it to me. Was it a shock? Oh, massively. Yeah, massive shock. Complete shock. I still remember the day my dad came over. I was like, what are you doing here? I was doing a bit gardening. It was during COVID. He just turned up. my wife was like your dad's here and I could see something was wrong so that sort of impacted what was going on with the business at that point and I was having loads of conversations with my dad so you know I worked really closely with him for many years and I was really lucky to do so and with my brother as well because he's older than me more experienced and I learned so much from them and I kept saying to my dad like what's your plan what's being a financial planner what is your plan yeah and not in a way of like i was trying to push him out i was just i was actually genuinely thinking for him like what do you want to do by the way because you know you're not getting any younger um and i could tell you know because we'd moved to a new office we've got this really nice office it's an old nat west bank we read about it's in bantstead and surrey okay nice we're actually probably gonna open a london branch but it was a really nice office make it a real experience if you're ever around should come come in and um so he spent a year well year year and a half redeveloping that was a whole sort of project for him while me and my brother were getting on helping clients so i kept saying to him what you're going to do he came up with these different things he said oh i've come up with it at one point he came up to me and he was like all right i'm going to put the business in trust and i was like uh and like the whole family who own a bit and like people are not involved you know like cousins and grandchildren or whatever and i was like uh i felt so uncomfortable you you know what it's like being i'd come on as someone so i'd been in the corporate world gone self-employed contracted and then and then your stripes and now go and work for the old man and then and then i was like i actually thought i was going to set my own business do something else by the way and then i was here i am what is it like 11 12 years later um so so yeah i um i thought well no i'm sorry i was just quite probably quite blunt with him i was like well i'm sorry but i'm i'm not working doing all this work for a trust and i'm I'm not going to work for a trust anyway and he was like oh okay so credit to him me sort of went away and thought and then look we had some discussions and then we I organized a call with someone then some point he just said right you crack on me your jobs boys I'm going to deal with this now and I kept saying to him are you sure we shouldn't be involved in this I really think it's better and you know obviously I can't tell him what to do it's his business uh and I said on multiple occasions and he didn't listen long story short was he ended up coming up with this deal where he was sort of over here and then he came up the deal i was quite excited because it was going to be some kind of deal for us um and he came and proposed it and i was just i was so deflated so your old man proposed a deal to you and your brother yeah and you're both like no doesn't work yeah i was okay i was like whoa i mean you're no yeah so um and this is a massive you know learning thing on you should really work on stuff together um so he was over here we're over here so getting him over here and getting us you know to meet halfway it is is very difficult how far apart were you when your dad come with that deal to where you ended up meeting somewhere was it really far apart yeah very far apart yeah what did that deal look like when he proposed that to you from memory it was something like it would take us 10 years to pay him off um and he would retain an ownership in the company um and it just fell oh and there were yeah and and i can't remember this came out later but there were quite a lot of other restrictions in there as well um yeah and and i just felt like well what so how old am i going to be then uh i'll just go and set up on my own and you know i was thinking at the moment because by the way what i haven't explained was me and my brother had been really kind of like almost doing a lot of the business stuff in his absence of doing you know the the redevelopment and look it's still his business i get it but we're right there were only i don't know how many people we were then but anyway still less than 10 and we'd help hire people help manage them so we're not just helping clients right we're part of the building yeah and i've made loads of changes when i came in you know we were still using paper files when i joined i was like what are you guys doing i don't want to spend my afternoon in a cabinet room um so so um so yeah we were just very far apart um and we felt like and we had relationships with all the clients that look that's also got to be recognized in the deal and you know we spoke to lots of people in the industry and elsewhere who know about these things and we actually knew of a couple of people in a similar position weren't family and they just were not on board with the deals that were getting proposed the end this company were looking for so much money like footsie 100 companies and stuff ended up all falling apart these two guys left took the business on their own, paid zero.

25:31So, you know, I never threatened my dad with anything. Of course, I never once do that. And we always wanted to do something. We always wanted something that was fair. Fair, yeah. But obviously our fair and his fair maybe were different. How's the age difference between you and your dad, roughly? 30 years? I'm 40. Yeah, just over 30 years. So he had a different mentality and mindset to the new leds coming through, basically. Yeah, I think that family dynamic's really tough, right? if you think about my dad's completely self-made right he he didn't go to university uh you know he he put me through my fat my my family my brother and sister three really good schools and education and we were very you know and in the early years you know it was really tough for him so you know 16 he left school he became a welder um and and he built this business and it was like his baby um and it is for any business owner right it is your thing and i think um that also added a further dynamic to it and then you add in that he was our boss and then there were two of us and we're his children and he's paying your salaries yeah well at the time we were self so yeah it wasn't quite salaries but yeah he's paying us he's paying us at the end of the day yeah how did you get it from because when it when business and family is very tough yeah whatever business you're in whatever if you hear people say oh it's fine it's fine you just make it no you're always going to have clashes.

26:56There's always going to be that sort of cold shoulder until someone eases up and you're my boy. Out there, you talk to me. I know what I'm talking about. And then you're, dad, you're not clued up enough because this is the way we do it these days. And that would have all gone on, I'd imagine. Definitely. How did you get through that? And how long did that period last for? You're talking specifically about the management buyout. When you went, dad, me and my brother really want to do this deal. Can you come back with a deal? And you looked at the deal and it was like, mate, we're a million miles apart here.

27:23That doesn't work. How long did that period take when he showed you the deal to you as you're completing the deal? A year and a half. A year and a half. What emotions did you go through in that 18 months? Horrific. Yeah. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I, you know, it really triggered him. And then that triggered me, I suppose, as well, thinking about it. We thought, I mean, look, we had an advantage to the two of us. I think we were in quite a powerful position, which also probably wasn't very nice for him uh we really tried to be as nice as we could and because he would get very upset um and tried to and because there were two of us sometimes one of us would jump in and be and take over and then you're like oh yeah i'm getting i'm getting caught yeah i'm starting to argue yeah and we there's a book actually i don't know if you heard it called never split the difference chris voss okay incredible book we use that as our template i advise it to anyone example um so understanding character types it's listening to people properly they're called things like active listening mirroring some of what they're saying um just as a as a few things and and really thinking about what you're saying how you're saying it how you're coming across and making them feel valued and not in a false way right i'm not talking about i'm forcing it just to win a deal or something i mean as i say again it was family but also one thing i would say about you know us and particularly me i have values that i live by and so i don't want to you know take them it i don't want to rip someone off uh and obviously not family so so yeah sorry i can't remember was there something i'm enjoying it yeah i'm enjoying listening because it's fascinating to fascinating working with family but you're talking about a management buyout you know what emotions did your dad go through because someone in their 70s might have different communication skills than we do today and feel like it's my way the highway i've been there and done it i know what i'm doing what did he go through because he would have gone for a lot of pressure do you know what the deal the day the deal went through he found out he had cancer this is my dad who's never had any health issues um it's my belief that the stress of it led to that thankfully he's all been sorted i wouldn't take the blame on that mate no i don't feel guilty about it no it's not i don't feel guilty uh because i can't control someone else's reaction and i did i really as much as i'm sure i made mistakes i really did my best with it yeah really thought how i said things um was it awkward when you met up at parties or events and stuff like that family events and he would you know like he came to have i think it was my son's birthday or something and he he was just not really present and then he said oh he went to pick someone up maybe another cousin or something grandson for him and he said i'll be back and we're waiting for the dinner i was doing the dinner he never came back okay um i just like you were saying i think i mean i don't want to talk about him too much i think you know he he came from um you know really he's a boy done good yeah essentially and he's built his business up for all these years and all of a sudden young guns have come in and said dad we can take this to a whole new level but you've got to give us a bit of freedom here and do a deal that we're both we're all happy with yeah yeah okay and then do you know what i think if we'd have worked together maybe he'd have even got more yeah you know and i think it was a bit because it was like a proper a negotiation what with two separate lawyers no no no we're doing on a personal level right i mean yeah i i haven't ever been through it with lawyers and negotiating but my feeling is look my experience with solicitors and lawyers is don't involve them if you can we got them to do the legals right we did it legal the legal way and we did it right but um yeah i think you know he had um he didn't necessarily have the best relationship with with his parents and certainly his father my grandfather who neither did i and so you know he tried to break that mold as well but you're still difficult right yeah um he came you know he had a completely different upbringing to me he's an only child as well i'm one of three so many things so you know i no way judge him about it um i've got massive respect for him and what he did with the business what he did with his life you know somebody's very determined so you did a management buyout via family can you give an example of a management buyout by the staff yeah because i find this fascinating when you hear about the management buyouts and what normally happens is someone maybe a baby boomer in their 60s has gone do you know what built this business up built this business it doesn't have to be a baby boomer it could be someone in their 50s or 40s but i'm just giving an example because baby boomers build the business up yeah they've lost the they've lost that va va of them to keep driving.

32:25They're driving it as hard as they could to where we are today. The taxes are squeezing and they're thinking, I just want an easy life. But they find it hard to sell the company because the turnover might not be like it used to be. They don't want to let go of their baby. But young guns coming through will be looking at that and going, I would like to buy that because I know I can take the marketing to another level. I know I can rebrand it and I know I can bring younger, more vibrant people on board to take that business to another level. how would someone who listening to this go about doing a management buyout where they've been in their business for a fairly long time but they want out by the people who are running and making stuff happen today so i've actually got a client that has done this and someone bought them out and now those so they're a client the people that bought them out are a client and now they're getting bought out say that again so the the founder of the business yes exited the business through a management buyout with people working in the business.

33:23And those people that have taken over, so it's about 10 years later, maybe a bit more, are now getting bought out by a management buyout by other stuff. Okay, okay. How do you do a management buyout? If you're the staff and you're going, well, there's eight of us here, we want to do a management buyout. And he wants a million pounds for his business, but between eight of us, we can't afford a million. What deal can you do? Okay, so first of all, any deal is negotiable, right? Yeah. So the price is what it is. It's not, there isn't a price. of course you'll go out there probably and get some valuations and etc but you if you're in the business you probably have a pretty good idea anyway i think it's actually one of the best ways of doing things okay the reason is is that and in our industry there's a lot of p back stuff and a lot of equity yeah sorry i keep using that um private equity buying out firms there are other advisors buying out other advisors which can work very well but actually if you think about if you've got someone in the business who is key understands it been there it's like you know the risk you know what's good you know what's bad from an owner's point of view a founder you also know these people and you trust them right otherwise why they're in your business and certainly if you're going to sell to them so the way it works is obviously you come up with a price that you agree on there are different ways you can do it so let's call it a million quid let's call it a million quid so it depends how you structure it so some people want obviously you might want money up front don't forget that business owner may have built up cash in a business they can strip that out well actually cash in the bank in the bank okay so they can take that out straight away and part of the deal it could be part of the deal it can be part of the deal and part of the valuation yes what you probably would do right is is pair back your withdrawals from the business as you're looking to exit because um entrepreneurs relief um sorry there's business asset disposal relief now which is entrepreneurs relief tax yeah yeah is a lot lower than say dividend tax although again it's creeping up it's gone up yeah and it's been creeping up so it would be a better route but you need to work it out but to do that so you might put down a lump sum start with now you can either do that because you got the money you could look to to get a loan obviously if you're going to get a loan you're going to pay interest on it how much is interest roughly these days i mean i i'm what kind of debt i mean well you probably depends i mean business business um interest rates i'm not an expert on loans are higher but you know you're probably looking three four percent as a minimum to start with so if that management team is going to be more so that management team want to buy a million quid say there's 10 people in that management team they want to buy out the owner for a million pound they haven't got a million pound but they can structure a deal where they can borrow 500 grand from the bank and pay the four percent on that 500 grand and then work the owner over a three or five year period yeah okay but there's an even there's an even better way potentially of doing it is you might agree not to put any money down and you just repay them over years through the profit in the business assuming it's a profitable business yeah okay so that's where it's completely negotiable as well so there are plenty of businesses out there i mean you made a really good point i think something like 25 to well a quarter to a third of businesses are run by or controlled by baby boomers right so there's 60 plus year olds yeah 60 plus there's a massive opportunity and and actually this is a big thing because i think in general there's this big narrative out there everyone should be an entrepreneur and everyone should be a business social media for you exactly which first of all is just completely wrong and most people will be more happy employed um if people knew how hard entrepreneurship was before they stepped into it 99.9 would walk away from it go do you know what i don't want to do that yeah but it's an extreme sport that people have to take seriously yeah because it can send you sideways if you haven't if you don't know how to have the entrepreneur's mindset you know no one talks about it or no one talks about the entrepreneur's journey what you're about to go through that five years of earning no money of earning no money three to five years of earning zero zilch until you can get into profitable business and then you're gambling hiring staff on that journey everyone's getting paid in front of you you might not have any money at the end of the month you might be living like a student for the first three years four years until you're trying to break the back of it.

37:53High percentage of those businesses fail within that period. So you could end up in under a grand, 200, 300, 500 grand in debt, wherever it is you've invested in. And then you go back to square one again. So what I've noticed, Sean, since 2020 is a lot of people jumped into entrepreneurship due to the pandemic, thinking this is perfect time. I'm getting paid by the government or paid by a company. I can build my own business on the side. And then they've moved into setting up their own business. Now what I'm seeing in 2025 and 2026, a lot of these entrepreneurs who are set up business going sod this this is way too hard go and get me a job I want to go back in the job the hardest thing at the moment is the job there's not many jobs around so there's a real there's a real period I think in 2026 going to be really tough for a lot of people who jumped into entrepreneurship trying to jump back out and trying to find earn a living you know and like you said earlier everyone's getting squeezed so much yeah it takes away a lot of those benefits and you know even I underestimated to taking over the business the the crap you have to deal with you know and um there's just so much and and then you know this is partly me but i think i've heard you say as well like you know you wake up and your brain goes it's it's i find it hard to switch off i'm obsessive and i'm always wanting more and i'm i've got to make this thing work got to make it better even though we've got of really good business in theory theory what we could have done is we could have just sat there and go right we've got the money coming in we're doing all right let's just close the books for any new clients and just keep it really easy don't have to manage any staff or just a couple don't be boring but it's so boring and i feel worthless i'll be i also feel like i've got to prove that actually i i probably didn't value yeah and i deserve this you did you always look up to your dad as a kid.

39:42Was he your mentor hero?

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40:58I don't know he was as such. He was just my dad. okay so when you've brought this out now have you got something to prove to your old man yeah yeah okay also especially because of the way the deal was i mean subconsciously i think i've probably always had a bit of thing about uh wanting to be a high performer whether that was sport or whatever at school or when i was growing up or anything i do you know i want to do it to a very high level and actually that's something that i've i've learned like you just and as you get older right you just take on more and more and at some point you have to go i'm just okay with not doing that thing or not being very good or just being okay at it because you need to focus yeah and actually this is something i constantly do in the business is is you know look at where's where am i actually spending my time and as you get older again you know i've got kids and fat and you know wife where you don't have that much time and you know i've turned 40 this year so i got to that point in my life where you start thinking what point you know who knows i've had friends that died and things how long i've got left so where am i spent so when i'm looking at the business i'm going is this value or is it clutter you know how many how many times do we spend ages on emails that you don't even need to i don't do email yeah uh you know no there's a There's a reason for that.

42:20There's a reason for that. It was a decision. A huge decision. I don't want to be stuck on a computer replying to people's emails. So I don't do email. I've never done email. I have an email address. Something comes through. I forward it to one of the directors or the management team. I don't do emails. If I see an email come in, I'll just ping. There's my mobile number. Pick up the phone. Speak to people. Speak to people. I speak to people all the time. I run all my businesses off WhatsApp. I know when you've read it, you double tick. You know when I've read it, we can do a deal. We're speaking.

42:46We can move things fast forward. but I don't like the idea of seeing, when I see my team with like 15 red flags that I've got to reply back to and they're just like, oh, it's going to take up five hours of my day to get back and it's all the super politeness at the start. And then you send someone an email and you're waiting for a reply. You don't know whether they've read that email or not and they hide behind the email for seven days because they might be playing a mind game of trying to get a deal or something. I can't be dealing with that. And that's the reason why I do not and have not done emails and I've been lucky enough in that past 30 years to have sold two companies without using email as well.

43:19I have big respect. That can't have been easy. You must have been tempted to. No. You were not tempted. No, no. I don't want email in my life. I do not want email in my life. I like it. But on the other side is I'm very busy on WhatsApp. Right, yeah. I know I can pick up the phone over chat. I know when you've read it and you know when I've read it. Do you know, I think this is a massive thing that young people don't realise because they've grown up in an age of messages or pick up the phone. so my first job was actually uh cold calling people yeah just on the phone all day i think everyone should learn that yeah it's a real school and the amount of people tend to piss off yeah get lost yeah rude to you um builds up a bit of resilience um but also then you just get in this habit of picking up the phone i've probably got i've got worse since then but the amount of times remember my brother talked about this you write out an email to a client and you go why don't i just pick up the phone because also then as you said you've got to wait for that reply then you don't know if they really intermed to it just pick up the phone you might have written it in a mood because you're upset or something's in your brain you don't know how they've read it they might be cheesed off something might happen in their day they've read that like it's a neg pick up the phone it's the big easiest simplest gift that I would tell anyone listening to this just pick up the phone it makes them so much easier and it's so much cleaner it's so much nicer because who receives phone calls these days no one I remember when I first got my phone in 1995, I've still got the same number today.

44:47For what, 30, 31 years. Back then, everyone was picking up the phone. Yeah. Phone, phone, phone, phone. Now, everyone's hiding from the phone because they can just do all things behind the screen. Yeah. It's unreal. It is. So it was a question I wanted to ask you. So I've heard you talk about, you think one of your strengths is being able to, to put good people around you and hire good people. so my experience in in running a business being in a business is it's the hardest thing is getting good people and it's i find it so hard at the moment i mean we've got some amazing people in the business but if if like if you could say to me sean what would be like the one thing if i had magic wand i could do for you in your business i would say it's just like get me these four or five people um so what how do you get people and what why do you think that's been one of your strengths what what's what is it about you i i've been very lucky over the last three decades i've hired unbelievable people and built wonderful teams around me i find it really easy to get people there's lots of things i'm not good at in entrepreneurship and in business but i'm good at hiring i'm good at building teams i'm good at making people feel good about themselves I'm good at inspiring I'm good at motivating all those things that no one really speaks about like the soft skills you know it doesn't get spoken about it's like you must hire this person because they got a 2-1 in that thing I've never looked at CV I've hired hundreds of people I love people I love people who are characters I like people who think of things before I thought of it they've gone I've nailed that I'm like this is great or they get back to you and the thing is like as Ollie knows and people around me here like when you're working with me like i'm i'm on it i'm juggling three business i'm on it i'm like it doesn't matter if it's monday or saturday or sunday every day is the same so i'll be asking questions and thinking ideas and sending sending um designs and this what you're working on this i'm just bouncing it might be on a sunday on a saturday on friday but if you're working for an entrepreneur it's it's exciting yeah you know but i find it easy to hire but where do you find how How do you find people?

46:56Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. I just put posts out and people get shocked. So if I put a post out on a, for example, Instagram, obviously we own a sport and music festival, so it's quite a sexy business to be in. And obviously the podcasting business is a cool business to be in as well. But we've had other businesses over the years, sports with brands and education tech businesses or whatever. I just would put a video on Instagram, guys, looking for this person. If that's you or not you, have you got a friend? Tag them in, getting content. People just send DMs. and the way they write a DM where they write a direct message I know if they are super hungry or if they're bang on the ball some people go really keen let me know more question mark I'm like delete off but if someone's gone Dodge I've been following you for 4-5 years 6 years really love this I would love this opportunity please give me bang I'll say send me a mobile number they're thinking oh one of my team might pick it up it might be someone else and our team is sending that message bam I'll call them straight away have a phone call with them and I'll say something I'll know straight away whether they're right or wrong well they're good for us and all of a sudden what are you doing this afternoon where are you based they might be in London if you get down here at 9 o 'clock tomorrow you know how hungry they go how hungry someone is they arrive at 9 o 'clock the next morning like I'm really hungry I want this and I'll know straight away within the first 10 minutes you know so I find it easier or put it on LinkedIn you know send me a DM send me a DM or three bullet points of why you think you'll be great for this role I don't want your CV I don't want to read your CV I've never read CV I don't like CVs CVs are gone and they're dead and I feel sorry for people who are currently graduates who are working at Costa Coffee right now and they're 50 grand's worth of debt.

48:27And even to get a job in Costa Coffee is hard at the moment because all the jobs we used to get growing up are that hospitality jobs, your weekend jobs, your bar, your hotel, your restaurant, your waiter, you know, your whatever. They're all gone. So there's a real lack of skill set out there where people know how to deal with people. yeah you know um but yeah going back to that i just it's one of my strengths is hiring and i love it but now you've obviously built a profile right but going back before you had such a profile do you you really saying you always had a bit of a profile there in some way even if it was specifically in the the sort of festival sector yeah yeah yeah my profile in the last five years has gone a lot gone quite high because of the podcast yeah but before that I used to be make sure that I was sort of not the face of the company it was always the business and the brand would be the the front of the company and in 2020 and I was like people were saying to me go and do a personal brand you've got to be the face you're coming I was like leave it out really I don't want to be doing that I don't want to be that all of a sudden I've done that and everything's changed to anyone out there make sure you are it's your company make sure you are the face of your company and face your brand because it's like 20 times people want to deal with the person at the front of the business more than they do with the actual company you're more likely to open doors on getting people wanting to work with you if you're the brand and you are the face of it it's personal isn't it it's hugely personal all about relationships it's all about relationships it's all about people yeah the world we're in is all about people yeah and this is the thing about ai as well right so as much as uh i like to and try to harness it and we do a lot of testing and stuff, but, you know, not using anything probably like its capability.

50:13Who is that, that at the end of the day, I would rather sit down here and talk to you than sit down with an AI. So I want to, I want to think my passions is sitting down with business owners and people that are passionate about business and having conversations. It's exciting. It's lovely, isn't it? I think I listened to your podcast with Jay, Jay Lawrence, Jay Lawrence. What a great lad. Yeah. And I know him and, And actually we met up and, you know, three hours later we'd gone through lunch and we were just talking and they're like, right, do you want a drink? I need a toilet, you know. But those kind of people where, you know, you're on the same wavelength and, you know, you might have all different kinds of background, but you've got that thing in common.

50:53And hearing you or when you were talking on that podcast, it's like inspiring. I just love it. There's a real buzz about it, isn't there? Yeah, huge buzz. Podcast is unbelievable. When do you ever get to sit down for someone for an hour or an hour and a half or whatever it may be and just talk your life or your emotions or the journey you've been on, the highs and lows and the pressures and you're trying to build a culture and you're trying to build a team and you're trying to do marketing and you're trying to do sales and you're trying to be on the end of the phone and you've got all your emails.

51:21People don't realise how hard it is to run a business, a successful business. People can run businesses as a hobby where you're not earning money. If you actually have to be a business, you've got to be paying yourself. But actually you want a profitable business is when you're paying yourself and you're taking a dividend at the end. There's enough money left over. That's the key that everyone needs to get to. But it's hard to get to that. It may take you 1 ,000 days to get closer to it. It might take you 1 ,500 days, five years to actually get to a point where you're actually taking money from it.

51:50People think that you can have an overnight success because social media tells you, but that's not the truth. Yeah, and that's also, I think, probably a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs give up too early, right? a lot of people quit a lot of people quit too early because if you don't like what you do that's good and you're not obsessed and you're not relentless like i'm obsessed with business i love business i love people i love entrepreneurship i'm obsessed i'm relentless like i'm i'm so it's not like it's not it's like it's not like oh that went wrong okay what did i do wrong how do i get back on track don't quit i've never quit i've never quit i just tweak tweak failure it's not an option no failure is not even my language yeah don't use that word don't you people say oh you must fail five times you come and say no you don't have to use that word we just keep tweaking tweaking tweaking to it but you've got to keep being persistent you've got to be turning up every day in the days you don't want to be doing it yeah that comes down to discipline yeah and willpower but if you're doing a business you don't enjoy you are going to wake up and just be burnt out you're going to be like so this what am i doing this for and you all doubt yourself you all doubt yourself saying is this business actually going to make money how long have I got to keep going to break the back of this business and if you're not used to entrepreneurship or going through what you are I know the journey is to get to where you need to be a lot of people just go you know what I've had enough I want to go and get a job I want something easier this is way too hard and I kind of understand it I don't understand it because I've never been employed so it's just life for me and I'm lucky to have quite cool businesses in the sport and music in the festival world in the podcast and media world so I really enjoy it I get up and I get excited.

53:29Yeah. Because I'm meeting you today. I've got someone coming in tomorrow. I've got a festival in four weeks. I'm dealing with people the whole time. But if I was in a really, they always talk about how lonely entrepreneurship is. I've never found it lonely. Right. But I can understand looking in if you have been in a job and then you're an entrepreneur. I can understand. Now I can see, oh, right, I can see how you'd be really lonely at home by yourself trying to build something. And you've got your mates supporting you. for the first six months, and then there's a few of them laughing at you because they know you're not getting anywhere.

54:00Then you look into your right and you've got all these people who are building businesses who are five years ahead of you and you're comparing yourself to them, but you shouldn't compare yourself. So you can be in this horrible, lonely chapter where it can be, I'd imagine it could be quite daunting for people. Do you know where I find it lonely? I think it's almost like a rare breed in terms of the people that really understand the level of obsession and care that you can have in a business but for most people a job is just something to to earn a bit of money and have a bit of fun whereas i think the people actually get how much that means to you and the drive that you've got to make this happen why those small details are important really important and why we need to do this thing and it's like rather than having to convince people of it that actually people on that wavelength are hard to find yeah but when you find them when you find if you go to a wedding for example and you sit on i love sitting on random tables you know you're at a table of 10 hello i'm dodge nice to meet you you end up getting chatting when you find someone who is passionate about you as business or is growing a business or entrepreneurship or as a founder you can't beat that conversation yeah i love it i absolutely love it and the more the merrier yeah you know and that's why we have the founder show in the founder podcast because it's getting real founders on the podcast having proper conversations conversations that a lot of podcasts may not want to speak about because they just want the fluffy front end stuff but actually what you go through and those sleepless nights and then you lay in there at three o 'clock in the morning or four o 'clock then we've gone for a wee you go back in bed you think i'll go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep don't think of anything then your mind goes bam you think i'm just accept it I've got to be thinking about all that today.

55:43Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. You know, it's constant. Yeah. But you have to love the game because it is a game. But it's also a very dangerous game. It's an extreme sport. It's a dangerous game. Like if you, you know, you've done a management buyout through the family. Brilliant. But say if someone was doing, launching a brand from zero and that person's got£10 ,000 in their bank account and they're investing that£10 ,000 into this business thinking, yeah, I'm going to make this work but not understand the journey you're about to go on and they've run out of money after month three, then they realise they've still got to pay their mortgage.

56:16They might have a couple of kids. You know, I'll tell you how I have huge respect for, huge respect for our female founders, women founders. Like huge respect. They might have two kids on the go as well, trying to run a family, trying to run a house, clean the feed for the kids, kids, and run a business. That is another level. Yeah, I can't do that stuff anyway. No, that's my point. My point is, my wife said to me that, that my wife wouldn't be where I am because she just takes everything that I'd have to think about anything apart from business and she said to me the other day imagine if I had a wife what how much I could achieve I was like oh my god it's true imagine my wife she's absolutely golden amazing human being she's got all the kind she's lovely everyone loves her she's just really really lovely but she said to me imagine if I had a wife

57:35We'll see you next time. Try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace, choose the right shows the right audiences the right format then watch the data tell you it worked you're not buying impressions you're buying influence learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise like to say all the things i could achieve because because having a brilliant wife has taken all the pressure of all this of the stuff to allow you to focus on your business and make sure it works.

58:30Well, that's probably where that expression, behind every great man there's a great woman, right? And that's an old one because the traditional model of the man going out to work and maybe being successful and the wife being at home. But actually, and this is actually another really important point that I think is just massively undervalued in society and that's mums at home. I've always said to my wife, I would much rather you stay at home and I'll make sure that we're provided for then pay someone else to do it. Now she decided she wanted to do a bit of work and I've respected that but she has given up, having a full-time career and she's actually set up a small business on the side.

59:11More like what you were saying, more like a sort of hobby thing and she's making a bit of money and she's doing fantastic. But as we say, I just think that what's... And sometimes it's difficult being a parent. I don't think there's probably a parent out there that... In what way is it difficult? I think especially as a business, I mean, it's just like constant, isn't it? Like, you know, they wake you up in the morning. How many questions do you get? You know, 300 questions a day. Imagine how my wife feels. Oh, I can't do it. I've said to her. I'm the one asking 300 questions every day. She's like, I'll leave the question time alone with you, Dodge.

59:48It's the best job as well. And absolutely, of course, love my kids. And, you know, it's brought me so much joy. How old are they? so my boy's seven and my girl's just about seven three um and have you got a uh have you got a a business life balance i mean i try and do things like in the morning spend a little bit time with them i try and get back to read my son a book and see my daughter at the moment always wants to be a mummy yeah that um and you know i do things like i take my son's football team on sunday i'll coach them and where i can and for example like he you know he's playing for fc wimbledon he's having a trial he had a test i'll take him to that he's going to oxford united in a couple of weeks i'll i'll i'll take time out to take him i used to be at qpr so i i used to when i can take him it was it was quite hard with the business but um are you a juggler are you a person who's having a conversation but your mind's thinking about other stuff as well yeah that happens a lot okay are you a person who's like i really need to take this but i don't want my family to see i'm taking this let me go into another room as if i can just reply to this and go back as if you hadn't used your phone yeah there is some of or you know my wife's like trying to ask me a question or do something and i'm not really present now when i was saying it's difficult as well that can be something because i'm not present or i need i think i need to do something for work and what i've noticed is if i've got a phone out and i'm doing something and the children around i get stressed because they want my attention i'm not giving it yeah and i can't deal with it so what i try and do when i can is put my phone away in outreach yeah right because hard they're addictive yeah it's massively addictive we're all saying as adults oh those kids are on the ipads our kids are on the phone at restaurants and all that and adults are giving it the big one about oh yeah the kids kids actually we're all i'm addicted i am i put my My name's Dodge and I'm a phone addict.

1:01:48Like that is, you know, if there's a thing out there that some people might be drugs, drinks, sex, food, whatever it may be. I think I am definitely a phone addict because there's so many things to juggle on there. Yeah. And you've got the whole thing on there, which is amazing. And I love it. I genuinely love lying on top of the bed when you finish the day and go through everything. It's like, oh, she's lovely. I'm really comfy. I'm going through everything. So I enjoy it. It's giving you dopamine hits. Yeah, I guess it is. but it's not because we're creators we're not consumers so we're creating stuff so I'm not sitting there doom scrolling stuff just for killing three hours I'm like we're creating or we've put something out or whatever so it's yeah but you're talking about maybe you put something out there and you want to see what's the reaction to it as well yeah you've got to see the reaction you've got to see the feedback you've got to see how it's going down you've got to see one of the businesses see if tickets are selling the big line up might go out with rudimental or chasing status and you're seeing other tickets selling what does that look like sponsorship coming in for the festival, any global sponsors bitten on their proposal that we put out.

1:02:50And then the other side of the business, you've got people wanting to come on the podcast constantly and you're juggling the people and dates and times. And then you're putting the team up and out creative stuff, you know, so you're, it's pulling you back into the phone because you're looking at the ticket company, how many tickets were sold. So it's an unbelievable tool, but it's, I'm the same as you. Like I'm there going, I need to answer this. I'll just just because we move quickly yeah yeah no that's the other thing you know i just want and then also it's a bit of a job off the list yeah done tick yeah let's do it how are you feeling today with the management buyout and how's your relationship with your brother and your dad after the deal has been done so with my brother actually this is when things fully aligned so it's been a big lesson for me and in business that when people's interests are aligned makes so much difference because there was probably a little bit of us you know should i do all that clients for you a bit of competitiveness brothers and rivalry when we had to go show for the deal everything was aligned and i also started to see him in a different light and have even more respect for him than i ever did so from that point of view it's only got better yeah my dad as well um yeah like things of um you know time has passed we've had various conversations anyway um and and he's he's not in the business anymore um we don't talk too much about the business um but yeah what was your other question about that um just just just the management where you where you are today are you in a really good place today as a business excellent position how many full-time staff do you have so well there are nine of us in total yeah so i mean one of them is actually technically self-employed uh we're actually hiring at the moment i mean we're basically always hiring look if and one of the things i've come to learn is we don't really want is to find someone when you need them yeah it's like and if you've got someone good or they turn up just find this place for them yeah yeah um so yeah we're in a really strong position as i mentioned before we're looking to to maybe open up a london office soon and then that might help with attracting people as well um but we're very profitable and this this thing about helping more business owners so any founders out there or business owners yeah if they like this conversation they wanted to contact you would you be open arms saying listen come and have a chat and let me see your portfolio what you're up to everything's confidential nothing goes further than you yeah and then would you advise them in ways to be investing their money into other things or would you be restructuring their business or just the whole is the whole thing yeah so i'm not going to restructure their business um but yeah like it's really about building their personal wealth and their financial planning and but can help them on that journey in terms of partnering them and if they're thinking about exiting and explaining an mbo whatever else it is but really fundamentally it starts with let's make sure that you build wealth over time like i was saying earlier if you build up just some nicer money some pension money over time then you know it's you know i've had clients who've come on um with maybe you know 100 200 000 and today they've got over a million well down um that's it's you know mixture of gone yeah i was gonna say it's a mixture of uh growth i mean you can get some look returns have been amazing i mean there've been periods where it goes down one thing about investing is you know i don't know why people are surprised when the markets drop i mean we always explain to people your money will go down have a five-year view yeah it will go down um but if you're in a decent investment fundamentally sound it's getting looked after we have portfolios again looked after it's gonna make money you know i can't guarantee it of course but it's an investment but um yeah how do you earn how do i how do you earn if you come to if we ended up saying i'll have a look at it for example let's use a million pound again yeah and you said i'll look to invest that how would how would you earn from yeah a customer so we charge an initial fee just to set up now that's only if you proceed so if you don't proceed we might even have an initial meeting a couple conversations that's it it's fine that's something we take on just to suss each other out to see what the business okay and and one thing we're big on is i don't really like charging on time for two reasons number one you know are you running down a clock here i want to sit like we're having a conversation now you just want to when it naturally finished now we all have things to do we have to finish up at some point so that's number one but also it's more about look if i can add value for you right that's the biggest thing we're not going to take the mick but uh so it's initial fee if you proceed how much is that initial fee roughly so that depends uh depends on the investment amount um million quid million quid so we generally it depends on the type again it depends on the value i would say probably in the region of you know 0.75 0.5 it depends depends on what we're doing so if someone just comes to me and it's very simple setup like if i'm putting money into pensions and i'm or if i'm saving i'd give you an example i saved a client 200 000 pounds in tax i charged them uh quite a lot of money for that you know between 10 20 grand yeah because i saved you 200 grand okay yeah but normally that's not the everyday client where i'm saving that much up front so i do look at that um so that's an initial thing and an ongoing so roughly five grand five grand seven yeah with that kind of amount it's probably gonna be more yeah more like six seven yeah something around that region um and then and then an ongoing fee is is one percent per annum so it's one percent per annum for the advice for them to be on the phone to say yeah your thoughts here yeah okay so actually what it also does is so although we might not be on the phone every day uh or or you know however often we're actually their portfolios are getting looked after all the time they're getting updated normally at least four times a year maybe more often um we will update them with other things if needed in the interim we will conduct at least an annual review i mean look if you've got that i'm sort of specializing now really in a million to two million holdings plus then um then if you're in that category then we will probably be speaking more yeah right because you've got more to deal with than you might want to that being said i've got people with you know one and a half million and more who, who sometimes don't really want to talk that much.

1:09:14Yeah. And, but they've maybe been a camp for a long time as well. They're a bit older. So it just depends on the person. So do you bring deals to the table? Is that what you do? So investment saying, I've got a million quid here. I've had to look at this. I've been giving the heads up on that. Do you want to put 50 grand into that? Is that how it works? What? Sorry, explain that. So, so someone, someone, say like you're my wealth management company and there's a million pound there. Yeah. would you be looking to invest that million pound if something comes to the table and said dodge giving the heads up i've got something here do you fancy putting 50 grand into it you bring stuff to the table opportunities so you mean if someone does some people come to oh you said like a deal maker yeah like it's like would you ever come to me and say there's i've got an opportunity here to invest into that company i know the owner this is a fantastic company no okay no it would all be um you know like fund-based generally type of investments that are being managed for you there are some esoteric things like venture capital just and things like that that actually invest in smaller companies that are not listed but really what we do i mean there are things like at the moment actually for people with cash and larger amounts in cash this is really amazing opportunity where you can invest into guilt and um you know earn around 4 % on it.

1:10:33Bearing in mind, a lot of these people will be high rate taxpayers. So in order to yield that on normal cash, you'd have to get like seven and a half percent, roughly over seven. Whereas because it's coming from gilts and they're not taxed, that actually you can take that home. Gilts are government bonds, by the way. So backed by the government, very, very low risk. Well, today... How's it spelled? G-U-I-L-T. i l t yeah sorry i'm sorry i didn't know to hear what you said the reason it's called that interesting story was that because you take your money and we'll get guilty well the uk government have never defaulted that's the good news okay okay and that's why they you know you look when you look at different governments they might yield more i.e you lend them money essentially is what you're doing and they're paying you an interest rate for it um you know some countries that have defaulted obviously have to offer you more the more safe kind of countries will give you less in return.

1:11:32So that's the point is, you know, they're generally regarded as very, very low risk, like having cash. What's one biggest mistake that people make regarding their finances? Good question. Probably, I'll give a couple, starting too late and doing it on their own. Now, they're just missing out. I see people who just can't open up and they can't let go. And a bit like you as a business owner, I imagine one of your strengths is that you can delegate very well. Yeah, I enjoy giving people freedom and giving them responsibility. Where a lot of business owners don't want to hold all their contacts themselves.

1:12:20They don't want to give people freedom. And I think that's a big mistake business owners are making. Yeah, I guess it's difficult. You, you, it sounds like you naturally, uh, have always been that way. Um, I think if, give it a go though, right? Because when you start doing that, you realize how rewarding it is. Yeah. Um, seeing, and then you. Seeing people grow. Thrive. Thrive. Unbelievable feeling. Do you know the, the, I was a lot more selfish when I was younger. I think it's probably quite natural, right? I mean, this is my excuse. Um, but, but as you, as I've got older. the thing that brings me most joy within the business is seeing people thrive in it like seeing people come through maturing being really successful and i was thinking about this on the way up when i was down when i was driving here it's probably actually like a human nature thing because we are you know when you're younger it's about yourself look after yourself make sure i'm okay you know i don't get killed yeah sort of thing yeah when you start getting a bit older and then you can help people that's you teaching younger people that's that's real education not going to school university that's real world stuff right um and that's it's a natural reward system to then see people um i love i love seeing people who work close with me if they're striving and they're really pushing boundaries and they're earning big money at the end of the month yeah like 21 year olds earning big money yeah but it's a win-win they're earning big money and the company's doing really well like that isn't that is a beautiful feeling because that can last for a long time because essentially you could to earn that sort of money in in in a business that you trust set up yourself will take a long time to earn that sort of money in a corporate world you'll be in your 40s plus to be earning that sort of money plus you can give people a shortcut right so you give you they learn a load and they give you like you say a shortcut to learn what they need to what they need to know very very quickly and i've seen that in our business and i've saw um you know katie one of our advisors who joined a year ago i mean it feels like she's been with us years because she's just integrated so well we get on really well uh it's just a lovely girl and she's great she bang on the ball she's bang on the ball does she reply is she a quick replier yeah yeah and she's like she'll say don't worry i'll get that done and she'll use her initiative and she won't just do one or two she'll go further yeah perfect and and she's actually just had she had a biggest quarter she had a massive quarter bringing loads of new business in and and she she even says to me like it's not really just about the selling i just want to do the right thing by a client i mean that is perfect perfect because the money comes in after the money comes and and it's actually you will get more business as a result because people will trust you because you're doing the right thing um and it's it's just it's great to see and and it's it's all about then encouraging them and making people real and being positive about it as well making making people in your business feel like an entrepreneur yeah yeah where there's no financial risk for them yeah that's what i call it an entrepreneur so someone can come into business they run the business like them like them they got full freedom and make the mistakes but they no financial risk how beautiful is that actually she's a good example so when she joined us how old is she how old is she she is 28 i think um when she joined us she in her old company was doing lasting powers of attorney so if something happens to you financially or uh medically and you're incapable of making decisions someone can do that for you she told us about it and she set it up and it was her idea and i was like well you know basically said do it here or she pitched us to do it yeah absolutely we'd love it we've always wanted a partner in it we've never quite found something as she was talking about it and pitching it in a probation period in the company to everyone we were like oh yeah well we don't have somebody who does wheels we don't have somebody who recommend and uh we've always wanted you know it's fine so i'll do i'll do it if you want i'll train up in her probation we paid for her she passed she's doing wills at lca as well lock her in yeah she sounds like an absolute worldly lock her in and we've got we've got she's all yeah yeah we got a few lock them in yeah make them feel really really good so simple make them feel good make sure they earn good money make sure they're happy yeah and that's the other thing i've learned as well um it's like if anything i pay people um only the only if not never do that if you are have got the fear of someone leaving.

1:17:05I see business owners doing that. Oh, I need to pay them more case they leave. That's not cool. You pay someone. But if you're paying what they're worth, really, what I'm saying. Then you pay someone what they're worth. Yeah, that's what I mean. Rather than like what's. And bonuses. Yeah. Dangly carrots. Bonuses. Do you do bonuses? Yeah. Oh, because we moved away from bonuses. Well, you say bonuses. It's not a fixed bonus, but every time, depending on what business it is. Yeah. Like different businesses, different horses for courses. but a bonus is like at the end of the month bam have that on top thank you very much wow thank you or at the end of the year you've nailed that you've been absolutely unreal we're not sitting on a oh we're going to put it up by 2 % bam have that you know and that's I guess over the years while I've had people I've made directors who are Gen Z's I've had directors who are Gen Z's under 24 directors of a company I don't care they're managing people 35, 34 it doesn't matter to me if they are seriously hungry and they've got the skills and they're like a sponge and they learn quickly and they bang on the ball and they sharpen and they think of things before you get...

1:18:07All the other stuff they can be taught. Yeah. You know, and they don't just come in and become a director. Don't get me wrong. They've had two, three years under the belt before they build up to that. But age to me really doesn't matter. Well, it's about the attitude, isn't it? It's having those raw ingredients. It's your character. What is your character? Can you teach drive? Here's a question for you. Can you teach drive? No. No, you can't. You've either got it or you're not. are you a today person or a tomorrow person yeah I remember a staff who works for me I look at them are you a today person tomorrow person I don't want tomorrow people oh I'll do it tomorrow and then you have to chase them oh I'll do it tomorrow and you have to chase them over an email I don't want that I want people who's like bang bang bang done bang bang bang done and we'll move quickly and we'll grow together you know it's really simple it's really simple stuff that yeah yeah no I think and I think this is what a lot of people miss in that But to be successful is not that complicated.

1:19:03It's just doing the simple stuff. It's, oh, Dodge asked me to do that thing. I did it. And then I went the extra route. And I did it quicker than he thought. And Dodge now knows that if I say I'll do something, I'll do it. I can trust. And now you become an asset to the business that you can't do without. Make yourself invaluable. And that's just by doing things, doing them quickly and being trustworthy. And being honest. And being honest. And keeping me up to date of what you've done or what you're about to do. Wow. Communication. Mate, if you get a message from different myself, this is what I'm nailing today.

1:19:38At the end of the day, I've nailed that. I'm like, wow. Thank you. I know where I'm at. You know, it's, yeah. Anyway, Sean, where can people find you? Like if someone's out there now again, you know what? I really enjoyed that conversation. I really want to reach out to Sean and ask him some questions because I do regarding business or regarding financial planning or whatever. Where can people actually get in contact with you? So, I mean, LinkedIn, if they want to come and see me on there and you can DM me or whatever else, you can go onto our website at work, mlpwealth.co.uk and there's a phone number on there as an email address.

1:20:17So you can just get in contact if you want to have a chat. Well done on what you're doing, by the way. Like on LinkedIn, you're just being you. And it's great. Do you think you can see that? No, I had a look yesterday. You're just being you, talking, you're being real. And there's a lot of people on LinkedIn who can't be real because they're employed. But my advice to anyone out there who is a manager or a director or a line manager or an owner of a business, let all your staff just be real. Yeah. So much easier, so much nicer, the doors will open. Because people are buying people. Yeah, but I think a lot of bosses feel like, oh, they can't say stuff on LinkedIn because they might get poached.

1:20:54I promote my staff on LinkedIn like in terms of she is unbelievable because she's done this I know if I'm speaking on there and it gets a massive reach I know there's going to be five, six, seven people trying to poach that person but you make their you make their life so nice where they work that they will get poached one day but it's only when they hand their notice and go by the way and I say how many times have you been poached? Oh like four or five opportunities over the last three, four years I said no to them oh that's a lovely feeling yeah you know so Sean I've really enjoyed this I've really enjoyed it And by the way, I just want to say thanks to you.

1:21:26The stuff you're doing, you're really putting it out there for UK businesses. And I think this is really needed. Very kind of you, mate. Wish you all the best. Good man. Thank you. Cheers, Sean.

1:21:39Hi, guys. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Can you do us a favour and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show? Cheers, guys.

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