FOUNDER #32. Why Relationships Beat Everything in Business - Dodge Woodall

0:00Business is booming, but you know what really helped? Zero. The accounting platform for small businesses. I used to think spreadsheets were just part of it. Ugh. But real-time cash flow? Wow. Invoices that chase themselves? Even better. Books that automate? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No spreadsheet in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search XERO for your free trial. Conditions apply. hello listeners and in today's show we're going to look at this world of ai or the things that ai won't touch well i've got a question for you to kick off are you ready for this now miss go on in mr dodgeford i'm like going in savile territory right if somebody sent you a cv yep and you thought they kind of gone through chat gpt here how do you look at that if somebody you know cringe cringe I cringe straight away I cringe straight away when I see it on on socials as well like you can see when someone's just baiting me copied and pasted from chat GPT like also you can see with the big lines you know like normally there's a dash they have this like triple dash yeah yeah the old M dash that's called yeah like it's whatever it's called but straight away you know I just lose respect straight away that's my gut feeling maybe loads of people don't maybe they go well everyone's speaking AI but I do lose respect instantly that's a that's a blunt way of doing it isn't it so that could be anything then isn't it if I said if I'm applying for a job tomorrow what makes someone stand out today someone that didn't know you if there was somebody that wanted their chance leadership for me when I see someone and I know they're a leader I don't care what age they're at even at 18 I can see leadership in 18, 19, 20 21 year olds the openness to go teach me I don't know you know I've still got that.

1:57Teach me. I don't know. I want to know from people. I want to know from the Gen Zs. What's everyone up to at the moment? But do you think it's easy, though, to switch off? Because these things that you're saying are actually really, really hard. I'm talking to you now. I'm looking at you in the eye. But in fact, if it's something that you're not familiar with, that's a tall order. Are you seeing these softer skills becoming even more important today? I think so. To talk, to listen. I think so. and I think they've always been really important. But I reckon they're even more important now. I really do.

2:31Just because, like, you imagine it when we're growing up. Like, there was always the weekend jobs. There's always going to work in a hotel. You go and work in a bar. You go and glass collect. You go and work in a cafe or a coffee shop or whatever it may be. You know, kids out there from 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 would go and do that. They're not about anymore. you've got graduates who have got degrees fighting for those weekend jobs or nighttime jobs working in a bar or restaurant because there's just not as many opportunities anymore is there an example from your so where you know that human skill really did benefit you that ability to interact that ability to have the guts hey it goes back to ollie that works with you yeah Oli was brave enough to come up to someone and say, I enjoyed that.

3:24Are there other instances that have had its role in your career where it's like, well, AI or automation or something would never would have touched this or something that led on to something that was better for you or for somebody else? Or maybe we could talk about Oli, for instance. Yeah. Well, the Oli one's a prime example. Well, you invited me, in fact, to come and do a keynote talk. and I was like oh leave it out Marky I'll help you out if I've already got to do Keenock don't say it that way hang on a minute hang on a minute it's alright listening to it I don't know you're shrugging your shoulders giving it more like I've got better things to do I don't know where that all I want to hear is thank you Mark that was a really that was a really I felt really humbled I felt really humbled for that let me finish you invited me to come and do a talk and I was like yeah mate I'll help you out in a theatre thank you and then I was like Q &A you're like no no I want you to do a keynote where a keynote really is you've got to go away and think you've got to plan you've got to do slides you've got to do it I was like oh mate have I got to come on but you I thank you for it because you're like no Doge come and do a keynote I was like okay so we had to plan it you know a 40 minute talk or 45 minute whatever it was 45 minute talk and I thoroughly enjoyed it so I want to say thank you for encouraging me to go come and do a keynote it was 30 minutes but it became 45 minutes you can have that one thank you yeah I enjoyed it I really enjoyed it and I knew when you're interacting again when you're interacting and you can see you just have got bright lights on you you've got hundreds of people in there you've got bright lights on you you can't see much but you can see people in the edge of their seat listening and wanting to know more and the next thing you're going to say like it was an amazing feeling and one of the lads who works for me when I approached one of my directors at the time and were just like I'm really inspired by that talk about your journey how you've just worked it all out as you've gone along whether it's the festivals whether it's the nightclub whether it's sportswear brand whatever it is you create whatever you've been creating over the years yeah and got him in for a chat before you know it he's working full time for us and again anyone out there who's a student or is not a student or is thinking about wanting to change jobs you've got to put yourself out there you've got to be banging on doors you've got to be opening doors you've got to be writing direct messages on LinkedIn to people who inspire you who might have an opportunity for you you can't send CVs these days I don't read CVs Marky I just don't I never have done I like to get people in I like to get them on the phone straight away I like to catch them off guard call them up they get shocked that I'm calling them up and then all of a sudden I'll get the real person we have half an hour chat really like it great come in the next day bam bam bam a few people come in and just go you're fantastic let's go with it how did it progress with Ollie then from him talking did you yeah he came in he came in and he had a chat with Josh Josh was like I've got a good kid here.

6:15I was like, how old is he? 19. Met him. I was like, there's something about him. There's something about Ollie I really liked. And before you know, he's my right-hand man. He's great to hear. He's my right-hand man. As we said today, he's 20 years old. But he is a 20-year-old who just gets it and he's like a sponge and nothing's a problem. And he's still learning. He's learning loads. But he's learning loads off an entrepreneur who's got a load of years behind him. It's great. Here's a little, just to make me think about it, if you present on a stage. So when you're at a business event, a conference, and you're presenting, so what we have is, this is making me smile, thinking about this.

6:55So Dodge was talking, and you have somebody there that will give them a timer, yeah? It will be, we have, like, someone holds up an A3 piece of paper that will say, you've got 10, you've got 10, you've got 5, you've got 2, just so they can keep track of time. And somebody held up a 10, and Dodge said, What? What are you doing? You're rating me. I thought it was like seven. Yeah, I remember that. Straight tens. Never a seven, eight. Never a seven. Why is it, though, that a lot of this is difficult? It feels difficult. But to do these things, such as to listen and to step up and to talk and to have a conversation and to communicate and build that rapport with somebody else, Why does that feel really hard today?

7:43Is that because it's easier for us all to hide behind a screen? In 2020, we had our festival. We sold out all our tickets. And then 2020, it got cancelled. It was illegal to put the festival on. We then went and said to 30 ,000 people, ring this number if you want a refund. No one rang it. Oh, okay. No one rang it. People were just hiding behind an email or hiding behind a message, a DM or whatever. And I just found it really, really interesting. That age group, the age group, say that age group, the age group of Gen Z do like to do things behind a computer and behind rather than being face to face.

8:24But I think that might go on to millennials as well. You know, 24 up to 30 odd. I don't know where, I don't know how this real simple communication or face-to-face has kind of really slowed down over the last five, six, seven years. Do you see that as the opportunity though? 100%. Where we can, this is the place where we now develop. This is where you stand out. Anyone out there at the moment, if you are just that, you feel like you're in that category, stand out, bang that door down, go and meet someone. Wait outside their office to meet them. Whatever you've got to do, if you're looking for a job, whatever you've got to do, you've got to do.

8:55No one's going to come and save you. When you're in the big wide world right now, there is not an opportunity there's no one's going to go oh by the way our mum and dad might do that for me or i know someone might do you've got to put yourself out there because there are less and less jobs as we sit today than i have seen in my adult life so it comes down to this opportunity of how we get out there in the places that we go to such as when we talk about we've talked about in shows about events and the live event space this is where we polish our skills that have become neglected. But I do generally see this as the actual good side to all this stuff that's going, because you can live in your little hole or behind your screen all day, but it's those people that make that choice to go out.

9:41That's where the winners are, isn't it? It's those people that have the, like Ollie, that have the balls and the heart to get up and get out there and to meet people they may not be familiar with. Do you know what? I absolutely love when people reach out to me. In what? Online DMs and places like that. And I'm just like, and they've not just gone, I'm just looking for a job. Anything can do, help me. Or I hate the science. Can I take you for a coffee and pick your brains? Don't do that to people. Can I take you for a coffee and pick your brains? It's not a good line. Never use the word pick your brains.

10:13Not pick your brains. And I don't like, I've never tried coffee. I don't like coffee. So they don't know. Take me out for a Joe Blake, medium rare. a bit of chimchurri on top. I was about to say, where's that coffee shop? But my point is, is that I like it when people reach out and they show character. Oh, and they're showing a bit of homework, obviously, but if they pick up a little bit of a thread, I see you this, I listen to this, or I know a friend. And that is the key, because if you are reaching out to someone, if you've done a bit of homework on that person and you can relate to them and they go, oh, do you know what?

10:41He's done his homework, or she's done his homework, or a bit of context behind it, a bit of homework behind it. And then that's where the magic happens. And that's where doors can open very, very quickly as well. Because it's easy, isn't it? That's what we're saying. Today we live in a world where it's easy to cut corners. Send you a connect or send a DM that is just the same as cut and paste because you were doing it with hundreds of other people. Whereas sometimes all it takes is do that little bit homework in someone. And take your time. If you really want to reach out to someone, take your time and write something from the heart.

11:15Don't try to be all businessy. Don't try to use all long words. just right from the heart. You're situated, the position you're in at the moment is this, this and this. And I'm looking for an opportunity. If it's not you, can you open a door for me somewhere? That's real. Hey guys, we've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands. If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video we've also left the link below as well here's a really weird word example what if somebody thinks i want to get in touch with dodge i want to come to my podcast what are the what are the people that would say i'd be up for that and having a chat rather than no next what wouldn't be what would be imagine someone then someone is someone who someone again if they're like because i haven't been on many podcasts.

12:14I'm, there's a reason for that, but I think in 2026, I'm the team again, I want to get on more podcasts. But I think again, if someone's like straight and gone, I've got a podcast. I'm 52 episodes in. It's not massive. I'd love to get you on. I'd love to have a chat with you. Happy days. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's have a chat. I've got no problem with that at all, because if I can help in any way, someone might pick up on something in an hour and a half chat, an hour chat. Someone listening might prick their ears and go, oh my god don't mention that and all of a sudden their trajectory of their life or their business life just might change and i guess as well as other people knowing that when they do approach we're all normal people when you kind of say that it's like i'd like to kind of build profile if there is yeah it doesn't have to be a podcast or a show with with with hundreds of thousands of listeners if someone's got a listener base and they're showing curiosity and willingness if it's a good topic they're like I want you to come and talk about that I'm gonna ask you I said you ask me and you can ask me anything you want anything goes when when on a podcast you know so I I I enjoy really curious people and then taking that to staff as well then how that so the team members that have come to your side over the years and the different in the different businesses do they all follow that same pattern like someone showed a bit of gumption and a bit of something that was out of the ordery rather than it was just a piece of A4.

13:42That pricks my ears up. When they do something different, they want the opportunity and they do something different and they've written something funny, they've done a little video, that's going to prick my ears up. I'm going to remember that person. And if I haven't got anything, an opportunity to work with any across the three businesses, you're on my radar. You're on my radar. You'll have my mobile number. I'll be WhatsAppping. Stay on the radar. I know you're in work. You've got three months left or whatever. Or when an opportunity comes up, I'll give you a bell. And that's how I've personally hired hundreds and hundreds of people over the years exactly by that and you know what i've never read a cv ask any of the stuff i've never received no interest what do you do get somebody else to read or what i just want to come in i don't need i don't need a cv i'll be like what where do you go what do you come straight out of school what's school like for you what are your hobbies what do you do out of school what's your what i just learn i can learn off them very very quickly you know and and i don't care if you've got a degree or not mark i do not care if you've got a degree.

14:37For me, it means nothing. Maybe for someone else, it means something, but it's about the personality for me. Quite challenging. It's a big thing to send a message, to send a voice note to you on LinkedIn or something else like that. But rather than being the answer, the information is there at the drop of a penny in seconds now, when sometimes all we need to do is take a couple of minutes to step back and think about the person we're addressing, and then how we do that even though it may feel extremely uncomfortable it just takes this approach by putting our foot in the door and being ourselves being different approaching different I'll tell you as a prime example we were filming in Dubai a couple of months ago for Dubai Uncovered fantastic we created a mini documentary and we interviewed some people this guy got my number don't know how he got my number but you know you got on WhatsApp that you can do a voice record this one is a video record have you seen it on the bottom right So he just finished recording.

15:38Dodge, I know you're out in Dubai at the moment. I'd love to get him on my podcast. Da-da-da. I've been watching you and watching your work and listening to your work for years. I really would love this. Straight away, I was like, that is quality. I went straight back. I said, I've never used this video. I went, mate, this is amazing. I'm going to do a video back to you. Yeah, I'm available. When do you want to do it? He said, can you do it today? I said, I'm in. Let's go. So he just recorded, bang. And I was on his podcast within a couple of hours. That's a lesson there. So you're saying that rather than letting the tools control us editing software video then we are making the most of the tools that are available to us so that if someone can use his whatsapp to record a video to do that do you think that's something that we perhaps forget that we need to lean into more like let's use all this stuff to us more i can send you a song or sing you a song or whatever and if so even even if chat gbt or claude gave me the words at least i'm the one who's singing it but that would prick my ears up that would prick my ears up like that would make me go I like this character he's a proper character yeah come on in I want to meet you I genuinely want to meet you because I love people but I genuinely want to meet you because you've gone out of your way to be funny or to do something that's pricked my ears up because there's loads of emails come through the day and I don't do you know I don't emails and emails I don't even put the team go through them but when someone does something that little cherry on top that's what sticks in my mind and it is it's about the you talk there about emails There's a lot of noise in the world.

17:04It's constant. We can post every five minutes and it won't affect us at all. Whereas what we're talking about here is that actually our own personality traits and stepping up and doing something that we may not have done before is the thing that is where the strength is becoming now. I was at a conference last week and this is the thing that I understood that it's not always about the presenters on the stage it was about the moments that happened in the breaks because for that time there was like no script like I had to talk to someone I didn't know when you're having a cup of tea but I started to realise all these things are really important that live event space do you see that as a as as the live event space is a place that actually that's where no one can camera behind that's we can step up and be ourselves and however we are i can't fake a live event you know i remember in i'm in the pandemic everyone was going oh it's all about online it's all about online events now and i was like no it's not and then people in the events industry like yes it is dodge you've got to go with it you can left behind i was like no mate i'll tell you now it's not about live events on a screen live events are staying there for years and years and years and years and years because people need connection we need that buzz we need that meet someone new in life there's not a better feeling than meeting someone new yeah and getting on so well like as if you'd known them for 20 years that feeling cannot be beaten if you could bottle that or the feeling of someone someone just walking past you and just smiling that's a beautiful feeling don't even know who they are they just give you a little nodding little smile and you walk the other way and you're like that was lovely all these little tiny things that we yeah because it's like things like companionship me and a friend what about a glimmer like each day look for a glimmer oh look at this I like that like a glimmer like I if you walk out the house and it's sunny and you just take a moment for me that's a glimmer just take a moment close your eyes and just get some vitamin D on your face it's like that's a glimmer or someone you know you're walking across the road and someone actually stops and just lets you go.

19:15Thank you, mate. Or even someone says thank you on a zebra crossing. Because some people just walk across and think, why did you not just wave and say thank you, mate? Do you know what I mean? All these little moments in the day, I think we're always chasing this big thing out there. What's the next big thing? What are we building? What are we doing? Listen, we all do that as well. But it's the glimmers for me. It's that lovely when you get home and you get your comfies on. And I think as well it's appreciation of, yeah, the places we're a part of rather than being, when we talk about things like companionship you can have for your friend on chat gpt or whatever but and telling you what to do and and being reliant on that but really is is is the substance that goes with as you say in there meeting someone that you didn't know and where that can move and everything else and you're meeting a friend and everything else tell someone or tell someone i say all the time so pals i'll go coi you lost a load of timber you look fantastic mate thank you Oh, seriously.

20:10But do you know what I mean? Like, tell someone. Why do people... There's this thing that people don't want to tell people. Like, mate, you're in great nick. If I see someone at the gym, mate, you're in great nick, mate. Well, fantastic. Or you might see your mate's mum, she's well-dressed. Can you look fantastic? Just... It doesn't take anything. If you genuinely mean it, you're not just saying it because you're just... Pampering. Pampering. You genuinely mean it. It's lovely. And it makes you feel good too. what would be this kind of finding our conclusion or end into this show is what can someone bring into into their every day that they'd like to practice more but so we're talking about ai we're looking at the the okay it's a part of our lives now and it's what we use and it's a tool there that supports our efficiencies and everything else and we can be quicker and faster what would you say to someone else that is is kind of seeing something around being a little bit more of themselves or feel a little bit shy or know that they have to put themselves out there a little bit more what would you say to someone that is looking for that that next step that they want to be seen as more of themselves go through your phone see who you like pick up the phone and call them it's as simple as that people don't call anymore like i'm a busy i remember my phone was off the hooked just ringing ringing and I'm a busy guy but the phone doesn't ring like it used to ring it's all whatsapp it's all through dms it's all through this as you pick up the phone and phone a mate not because you want something or what happened you want some information it's phone it and say how you doing what's been happening in your world and just take a proper interest they will be like wow because everyone's waiting for a phone call it's like yeah what do you want what are you after do you know what I mean it's those little simple things and have a brilliant conversation there's an area that we're scratching here that is around emotional intelligence and this ability to talk people intelligence yeah and ask how somebody is and that and take a proper interest don't just say it don't just i can't stand oh you check to someone's like oh yeah the weather's good today isn't it just boring shit oh that's how i start start most of my conversations.

22:33I can remember that. I can remember over COVID, it's like, my small chat went out the window. Yeah, get rid of it. You're like, no. Get rid of it. I was there. Yeah. And I couldn't do the normal, I was like, what have you done? Oh, mate, I can't do it. You've done a toilet. You've done a day. It's like that. And I was just falling over my feet rather than just, couldn't see it, how's it going? Whereas now you get used to it. So this kind of, this show that we're talking about here is that, okay, hey, all this is in front of us, everyone, and it's great, but we don't need more. We can cut back to know, well, if things are telling me that I need to create more and do more, for what?

23:10What's the point of it? When the whole thing is that, if we come back to leadership, is we don't need more choices. We can lead by saying, no, I'm going to get better at this, whether it is picking up the phone, as you said, or it is to be a bit more direct with someone. But as long as I took the time to get someone to know a little bit better with a little bit of homework, homework we're living our lives now that someone's doing our homework on the top of the bus so you're not using your brain people it's easy for the moment to not use your brain if you're talking about this AI thing which AI is obviously we spoke about saying it's going to be massive it is massive we've got to take control of it and be the person behind it and stuff but don't lose what we're all about be real just be with people be real have wicked great conversations and actually really take a proper interest and be curious with people and be curious when we're in a queue.

24:04Look to your left, look to your right. Everyone's just on the phone in the queue. Do you ever chat to the person at your left? I couldn't do that. Oh, I love it. I love it. Urgh! I love it. If I'm angry in a queue and there's a long queue and you're giving a letter I might have a conversation with you. What are you doing? But you might be angry. All of a sudden we have a little chat and think, well that was nice. You might just trigger someone. It's a real, we're in a, In a world at the moment, Marky, in the UK, where it's tough, it's tough for business, it's tough for people's minds, because it all comes down to money, which is really sad.

24:38There are a lot of jobs, people being made redundant. There are a lot of entrepreneurs who become entrepreneurs in the pandemic in 2020 because it was a wonderful time for them to go, do you know what, this is the time for me to set up my business. Great. A lot of those people I've seen now are going, shit, I need to go back to a nine-to-five. But there's not many nine-to-fives to go back to. so there's a real there's a real something in the air right now and I still am a big believer that we're in a wonderful country and I'm a big believer that people should be setting up their own businesses in some form because you can't rely on just a job right now like you used to 10, 15, 20 years ago I've got a job a job for life so I might move two or three times that's not happening you need to be bringing three, four, five different if you can different revenue streams come in just in case that one goes down you've got that or you're building something on the side everyone's got everyone out there's got to be building something on the side yeah don't rely on your boss get up he's the boss said oh i'm part of the family don't listen to that you know you ain't you ain't you're not i tell you what if the if the business is not doing well they'll go through the 10 20 people who work in there go right we need to get three or four that winds me up when i say that on linkedin when people talk about the job and the family yeah let me round this up.

25:51So what we've been talking about, bringing it back to this topic of AI, is that we're kind of saying that a lot of our work today is that so much is becoming easier for us. But the effort is shifting to how we show up. Wouldn't you agree? 100 % mate. Thank you very much. So if you have a question you'd like to ask, send it to AskDodge at dodgewoodle.com. Until the next, look at that, it's like proper showmanship, shit of the clothes, isn't it? Isn't it? Oh, I love it. Thank you. Cheers, Marky. Business is booming, but you know what really helped? Zero. The accounting platform for small businesses.

26:33I used to think unpaid bills were just part of it. Ugh. But batch payments? Wow. Automated accounts payable? Even better. All in one place? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No bills in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search XERO for your free trial. Conditions apply.