FOUNDER #35. £9M Royal Marine Commando’s Security Firm - Eddie Gilmour

0:00How did you end up growing a luxury security business to£9 million a year? Basically just through my background that got me in it initially, from the military to the police. The Royal Marine Command over five years, and then a detective policeman for 15 years, and now in the security business for the last 14-15 years. So the security bit of it at the moment. So we provide security services to the luxury retail market. We also do a movement of fine jewellery, look after VIPs as well. So it's all at the top end. We had a situation where one of locations we're working at get attacked with four guys with machetes and they come off these mopeds so there's a lot of that involved in it you know being calm under pressure a lot of these things we're just constantly training with the guys well you've got a mix of special forces detectives yeah you're employing the best in the world you're obviously a good boss i look after everybody yeah i always say don't ask me for a pay rise i'll give you what would be your perfect scenario now in your business the perfect scenario for us is growth we are absolutely set for it that's I want to go a bit further back.

0:58Like, what were your Royal Marine Commando days like?

1:26story go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video we've also left the link below as well eddie welcome to the show thanks very much yeah pleasure to be here yeah thank you for making the effort let's roll our way back how did you end up growing a luxury security business to nine million pounds a year um basically just through uh my background that got me in it initially um from the military to the police and uh i then did working with high it with individuals and somebody suggested to me that there was an opportunity coming up, would I like to participate in it.

2:01So that started in Scotland actually. Did it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, at a palace in Scotland in Linlithgow. Okay. A huge, huge event that we ran for them there and obviously seeing the standards and the luxury plan that we did it for, asked me to come to London. Fantastic. Well your standards must be super high, you think about it, you've gone from being a Royal Marine Commando for five years and then a detective policeman for 15 years and now in the security business for the last 14, 15 years. When was it when you said, right, I want to leave being a detective and go, right, I want to actually set up my own firm now and run my own business and be an entrepreneur?

2:37I was actually, so when I was in the police, I was in a lot of specialist services. So I did a lot, the majority of my work in the police was covert policing. There wasn't a lot of covert operations and stuff. what I did feel at one stage was that I was away from home a lot I was working away from home a lot I missed my family, my family was so important to us I just had a young daughter at the time and then my son so I kind of missed a bit of their life and I thought, do you know what I think I need to look at Pastures New Year so I come out, set up a business and kind of took it for there Good for you and when you say covert operations, what do you mean by that?

3:14So I was one of the most qualified surveillance instructors in the UK and in Scotland it's a bit different to the UK where if you're an instructor you're actually out doing live operations and then you get taken away to run courses maybe however long the courses are running for and then come back into a live surveillance team And what do you mean by a live operation? Like it could be anything we did loads undercover operations drugs paedophilia stuff like that So if you're undercover as a detective there give me an example of going on like a drugs operation or are you there for like two months three months are you keeping an eye and stuff how does it all work yeah some of them can run for real long periods of time others can be quite a quick hit but on the majority of cases there'll be a team that'll go out and do the initial groundwork for the surveillance team and then they'll come back and you'll then get an intelligence package and then start it from there and it's normally starting right through their organisation right okay so if you're on a drugs operation yeah would you be looking to say right I don't care how long this takes, I want to get to the top kingpin.

4:19Yeah. Okay, so you're not worried about the little ones down here? That would just be working through, you know, that working process and progress to get to the end result. Yeah. And there'll be a lot of kind of senior people taking it, you know, at different stages in the operation. Oh yeah, fair play. Yeah. And so when you then made that move of going, right, I've been employed for 20 years, I want to become a founder now. Yeah. What did it look like for you? Was it daunting at the time? No, no. No? No. So when I was a kid, I was always out to make my own money, always running milk runs, running my own paper round, just to make money, basically.

5:01I was always used to making money when I was a kid. Yeah. And I came up with this. I spoke to my wife about it as well and said to her, look, here's what I'm planning to do. I'm planning to leave and whatever. And she was fully supportive. Right. My leaving day was really, really difficult because I took up and seen the, he was the number two within the special branch, a guy called John Marshall, a lovely guy. And I took up and see him, and he was quite shocked that I was leaving and whatever. And when I said, he said to me, are you sure? And I had to look away for a second. I thought, oh no, this is embarrassing.

5:38But aye, so that was it. Then I went and just cracked on. Fair play. How old were you when you set up your business?

5:48I was under 40 and your journey from when you set it up to where you are now, I'd love to know that kind of journey of growth yeah so I first of all get involved with, I set a company up that did corporate events so we ran it on a scenario a surveillance based scenario so I built all this up there was three of us left the police at the same time to go and set it up the other two guys one's now in Canada the other guy he went back to the police because it was tough you know and a new concept that nobody had heard of so it was Spy Masters it was called at the time Spy Masters yeah so I'm actually looking to do something with that yeah good name really good time but it came 2005 we were doing well but 2005 when the sorry 2008 when the recession came that was finished at that point you know there's nobody going to be doing team building or any of the kind of things you know so So the security bit of it at the moment, what do you actually do?

6:46How do you explain to someone listening now exactly what you do today? So we provide security services to the luxury retail market. We also do movement of fine jewellery. Fine jewellery. Yeah. Okay. What, moving of diamonds? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And we do events, VIP events, stuff like that. Look after VIPs as well. So it's all at the top end. Some turnover you're doing at the moment. How many full-time staff have you got? About 80. 8-0? Yeah. That's an operation, isn't it? Yeah. And it's a family business. I've got my son and daughter in the business. Are they? Yeah, yeah. And what do your son and daughter do?

7:27Greg's a security manager, security director, and Emma does the compliance and recruitment. Emma came from a banking background where she worked in compliance. So I said to her, look, there's a lot of compliance and security. I said to her, look, it's maybe a good move for you to come in here. I've got a cracking story to tell you. Go on. A family business story. Go on. Family businesses are tough sometimes. Yeah, very tough. You don't get any break for them at all. My daughter stays next day. My son, Greg, he's moving out this year, but he's still with us as well, so it's constant. Every waking minute.

7:5624-7, isn't it? Yeah, totally. Especially security as well. Yeah, it's constant. But it's all about working hard and giving it the service it requires. so my son my daughter was pregnant at the time, heavily pregnant and could go at any stage and we were up to where I was at work and we were in my kitchen at the dining table near the dining table and she went into labour there was a bit of information we had to get off her before because we had no idea quickly, quickly, quickly she was on all fours moaning away and Greg's looking at me and he's saying you know what I need to ask and whatever so I then turn and I says Emma Greg's got something to ask quality palm it off to the boy I'm not asking the question but I it's just family business it's just what it's like it's just full on all the time what made you choose your son and your daughter or did they choose you I think for the business yeah I think it was just bringing him in early I took Greg to London really early who was 16 at the time.

9:05Took him in, got him running about the business and stuff like that and then started working on letting him see how the business runs and whatever. But obviously having a look at him as well to make sure that he was, he's a real grafter, but he's a really, really good personable guy as well and a problem solver and whatever. So that was an easy one once we got started with Greg. It was easy. That's a genius combination, right? Yeah. Problem solver and a good bloke. Yeah, totally. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my daughter was just, she was an actual fit just for her background as well. but an amazing worker as well.

9:35Yeah. Did you find, how did you find entrepreneurship for you? Coming out and going, right, I need to build a team and you can build a team around you but then you're employing the wrong people then you're thinking I'm going to get rid of people. What sort of process did you go through? Ah, it's tough. It's been tough. Ah, it's really tough. But I think that, I think first and foremost the freedom that running your own organisation gives you as well to a degree. You know, I enjoy that, the decision making, I enjoy all that stuff. You know, when it comes back and you're able to have a look at things but no it's really really tough employing people and getting the right people it's funny you say that people who have got jobs at the moment going oh I'm tired to my boss I want to set up my own business you know you'll be working 365 days a year as your own boss Saturday, Sunday there's no no one understands for me it doesn't matter if it's Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday every day is the same it's not a weekend it's just carry on you know because you're constantly juggling and you're having conversations sometimes when your mind's thinking of 10 other things problem solving I've got those people to feed if you're employing 80 people you've got 80 families to protect yeah 100 % and make the right decisions for them as well 100 % I totally agree I think that's where people's perception of running your own business of being an entrepreneur it's not as it's not as you know you just see like you see Dragon's Den and you see the successful entrepreneurs nobody sees what's behind that for these guys you know nothing comes easy you have to be obsessed yeah if you want to be a success you have to be a success and you have to be relentless 100 % I talk about this all the time but you have to be because if you go into a job that you do not enjoy or work or you set up a business you do not enjoy you're going to get to a point where you're going to have burnout you're going to wake up I don't want to do this anymore I totally agree I'm not enjoying it I totally agree but you've got a business that you sounds like you absolutely love yeah totally 100 % does it give you I know the security business other friends have got security but are there times when you've had proper headaches in your business yeah to a degree I think I put a lot in before, see before deployment as well, I put a lot into the people that are going to represent the business, a lot into them.

11:37We put a lot of training into them just for that reason, just so there's no, you can negate the issues that you'll normally come across. We've not had anything that's been massively, massively challenging. Day-to-day challenges like everybody else, but nothing major. What do you look for when you employ someone? Just somebody that's first and foremost have got to be presentable to you in that level of client and their clients as well. It's got to be presentable. It's got great communication skills, you know, stuff like that. It's not necessarily big guys standing in the door or anything like that.

12:13You know, they've got to be inclusive of the brand without being impressed, you know, you've just got to fit within the brand. yeah okay you know have you worked with many celebrities I've worked with some yeah yeah yeah no there's been there's been some yeah yeah yeah like I'm trying to think the ones that we've dealt with I can't do you know I can't remember but it's just through working within the luxury market yeah so would they so give me an example of a celebrity who wants to come with you I know there's some celebrities who you've worked with over the years and some high profile names you might not be able to say it but is there any how would they approach you and how would you approach them that would normally come through to us from a client yes looking for that to look after the celebrity yeah so we would then take on the role of every bit of security for them and the rest of the event or whatever they were running and what do you do as the owner of the business are you teaching the people you come on board are they normally ex-military coming on board not all no a high percentage it just depends what roles are doing yeah yeah And do you find them easier to employ?

13:24Yeah, but there's also amazing people out there. There's amazing people out there that you just think, you know, how switched on they are and how involved in the business they are, delivering the service have been fantastic. Yeah. What's the one thing that you really, like, if someone's going to be with you a long time? How long has someone been with you for? What's the longest time? Apart from your son and your daughter. They've been with us 15 years and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're obviously a good boss. I look after everybody. I always say, don't ask me for a pay rise, I'll give you it.

13:55Lovely. I know. I massively look after people. It's all about the people. It's all about the people. I remember first getting involved, particularly in London, and people were saying, you're the managing director. I used to say, listen, you're equally, if not more important than what I am. You're the person that's the front end of the business. You're so important. So we massively look after the people. so over those years has there ever been a time where you thought laying in bed at night going I could go bust here not so much bust but I have been under financial strain yeah aye what year would you say in your 20 year journey probably I was back in probably back in Spy Masters days okay aye really tough really tough and no sleeting and the TV used to be the news used to be the only thing on repeat aye on repeat constantly right through the night News 24 you think oh mate here he comes again mine's normally Sky Sports News one missus is like you've watched this three times I'm just taking it all in honestly I used to sit in my living room and just think you know trying to work things out all the time you're just never sleeping I was actually in 2016 I was coming to London I was travelling from Glasgow to London I basically stayed here for the first six years as well running my business here because I thought it was so important to make sure I get it right so I ended up having a flat here and my family were still in Glasgow the kids were younger and my son, he said to us as well much later, but he said to me I thought you and mum had split up just because I was never there I was away all the time but I had to put the effort in but one of the Sunday I travelled back on a Sunday night on a sleeper and I was in Glasgow Central Station boarding the train and unbeknown to me I didn't know at the time I was just constantly in my fitness and I don't know, I just had this mentality that nothing ever, you know, people would say, oh, I'm struggling here, I'll just keep powering on and powering on.

15:52You know, just like yourself, you know, you're going to successful businesses, very odd businesses. But I was boarding a sleeper and I took a dunk on my chest. Somebody just give you a knock on your solar plexus. I thought, I wonder where that was. I was on the train and I felt about no right and whatever. I ended up travelling the whole time in the train for whatever it was, eight hours, got off to the other side, went back to my flat, I was exhausted because I hadn't slept, I had this chest pain for indigestion and then later that day I ended up, I had a meeting to go to, I went to the meeting and I said in the meeting, I said, I'm not feeling great, I'll just, I'll come back.

16:29So I went outside, eventually jumped in a taxi and went to St Thomas's, I had a heart attack. You had a heart attack? Before I got on the train, before I got on the train. I was really, really lucky that I, I should have obviously, but that's what I'm saying, I just, a heart attack It could have been further from my mindset. And then in 2019, I had another one. So what year was the first heart attack? 2016. And you set this business up on 2008? Yeah. So when you're building a business, 2008, you're building it up for eight years. Yeah. Then you had the heart attack. Were you under a lot of pressure the whole of eight years?

17:02Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long many years do you think it took for you to break the back of that business where you've actually gone, I've got it in a place where I've got staff, I'm paying myself and this profit that's worthwhile at the end of it how many years roughly do you reckon that'll take I think I kind of go out there in about the first six years within the first six years I think I was in that place but I mean there's no way that it came from nowhere anyway no twice that's pressure of course it is of course it is and that's what I'm saying these things that lie back there like being up all night and worrying about your business and worrying about my kids and, you know, where are they going to move to if this goes wrong and all that.

17:44You know, they're going to... It's constant. It's constant. It's constant. People don't realise that when you're on your own business. You're constant thinking, what's the next thing that could happen? You're firefighting. What's the next thing that could happen? And you've got to be moving five moves ahead constantly. Constantly. If that one loses that, if I lose that contract there, I lose that contract. I don't know what contract, 50 grand, 30 grand. I lose that one. I can replace it with that one. You're constantly robbing people to pay Paul till you get into a position which normally is that sort of 10 year period when you can build a moat around your business and go do you know what I've done 10 years I've done the hard graph now I'm fully here to properly earn a good pound note and then you've got the right people within your team as well Spymasters was different but it wasn't contracted work it was sell deliver sell deliver so you were always chasing ahead to try and win work or find work or stuff like that but contracted work is much much better much much better yeah well it's more guaranteed right yeah go back to your I want to go back to that heart attack because this is really important because any founders, any entrepreneurs, CEOs, business owners who listen to this will have a tight chest at some point.

18:44Yeah.

18:492006, after eight years of graft. 16. 2016, sorry. After eight years of graft. Yeah. When you started 2008, you've left your family up in Scotland. You're down here three, four days trying to open contacts, meet doors. I was actually done when I come down. I may be coming down for weeks and weeks and weeks. Really? maybe six weeks at a time and then come back up for a long weekend wow I had to be here I get it I get it because there's not much absolutely spot on there's only a small demographic up in the Scotland area I guess and you're thinking I need to be in the mix that's where the money is yeah yeah massive respect to you mate do you have any regrets no I never have a lover with regrets never ever that's why I left the police that's why I decided to go because I thought I don't want you to live my life thinking what if what if when you're eight years old looking back with a regret yeah yeah but is there any regrets like that's tough Scotland 300 200 miles in London I'm down there for 4, 5, 6 weeks then I'm going back up see the missus see the kids is there any regrets not being around for your kids yeah that is a big part aye definitely I used to remember I used to put the the iPad on FaceTime and I'm useless for all that stuff as well but dad you're upside down no and I used to just put it on especially for Greg when he was young he was maybe a bit I'm trying to think maybe about 12 yeah okay maybe when we're the age and he's playing his xbox and stuff I used to get him to set up his ipad so I could just sit in the room with him just watch him play and talk to him in between times and stuff and he was a you know he used to play football and stuff and I was there all the time and then obviously I came here and I came down to London and I could only hear stories of what he was doing and stuff like that you know so it was a big commitment massive commitment massive commitments but are you still with your missus today yeah yeah massive respect to her as well for sticking by you yeah and going go on this is your dream and you're going to make it work and massive respect to you look at your missus and just trust me I'm at this I'm going to make this work I'd say do you know that is a big thing because I've met loads of people who you know they're going to go and do something or whatever and it's the person ultimately that holds them back is their wife absolutely not for me you know and whatever and there's a few people I've said to Elaine as well that you know they would if I'd left or had left the police to set up a business they'd have left me if they were married to us but we've been together since 1988 have you?

21:11bloody hell you've come up to 40 years right well no for half 40 I know 40 wow wow yeah what's your missus name? Elaine massive respect Elaine putting up I know what it's like I know it's like my missus married to an entrepreneur like I've been with my missus 20 years you know what my wife said to me the other day she said because she's unbelievable she's so supportive yeah like she knows that I graft she knows that I bang anyone she knows I'm people and phone calls and da da da she's been so supportive and there's not one ounce of jealousy or envy or get off your phone or why are you doing never it's just been like you need to go and do what you gotta do massive respect you know what she said to me the other day she said to me and this blew me away she went she said to me imagine if I had a wife and I was like bloody hell so what she's basically saying is all the stuff she does that we can just concentrate on our business that we haven't got to think about paying bills and thinking about paperwork and computer stuff and da da da da da kids paying you know all of that stuff running the house she said imagine if she had a wife how successful she could be do you know what I mean like and I was like bloody hell that is so true yeah when I was away she was on her own Elaine was on her own so she had to battle through everything there herself wow no definitely wow definitely I want to get back into your business nitty gritty here because I want to go I want to know I still want to still know about that 2016 you're not getting away with this one I want to know about did you ever feel any chest pains prior to that can you remember yeah yeah okay aye what did I I'm trying to think I'll tell you what it was so I went to the I was walking my dog a couple of times and I felt at the start of the walk I was getting this chest pain.

23:00Stop for a second, crack on. Like I said, I know it sounds crazy and people would just think, how did you ever get yourself into that position? So I went to the doctors and said, I think this is angina. Well, you told the doctor what you thought it was. No, he did. So he says, I think this is angina. I'll send you to the cardiologist and they can have a look. So I did a stress test. Everything came back normal. So I thought, right, it's not that, whatever it is. and about a week or two later I had my heart attack and I still never when I had it then I thought this is this indigestion thing because I've had the tests everything's been clear 2019 I had my second one so this is so you had that one there yeah when you had that first mini heart attack I say mini I don't know if it's mini or not but it was a heart attack did it slow you down straight afterwards you go well I didn't get myself better I'm back on it I'm eating the gym I feel fine I feel great I've got a crack on.

23:58It did at the start mentally. What I was thinking about, maybe one day when I retire or whatever, but I was actually thinking about... Mate, you'll never retire. I know, I know. I can see. I know. About maybe setting something up for, I felt there was a kind of gap where you come out of the hospital, you're going to cardiac rehab, you're a bit lost at that point, in your mind you're thinking, bloody hell, that could have been... Yeah. That could have been cummings. Because that was a way, I think between leaving the house and getting to the hospital, between, you know, travelling in the train and going to my flight and stuff like that.

24:30I think it was about 14 hours. So it was a long time that I'd been good through this. I thought at any stage you could have just progressed to what I've had. So I've kind of lost my train I thought there. But basically, I did struggle at the start mentally. You know, mentally I was thinking could this happen again? Because obviously in your own mind you're thinking if it does happen again, purely for my kids. Oh, you did train? Yeah. Eat well? Were you on the smack? were you on the on the on the source i like to paint i don't know nothing major okay okay i like to paint so basically what you're saying that did come down to financial pressure stress of the business stress of everything okay they speak about that as well don't they it doesn't happen a heart attack doesn't happen overnight you know it's just a build up to build and then what happened what happened uh on that 2016 period when you've run your business for eight years where were you in your business journey were you still doing that or it halted was it dropped a bit um no i was still kind of doing that okay um i had good people around about me it just yeah they kind of carried it on for there um and then i got myself back uh and that was a you know never gave it a second thought once you're back into it again and then 2019 what happened there that was the same i shouldn't travel on the train i was going to the jinx this time was the morning jumped in the train you know you should get shot for stuff like this but I jumped in the train again felt a bit chest pain I was thinking right hold on a minute because I was getting a lot when you have a heart attack and you get all the meds you end up with a lot of reflux and stuff like that you know a lot of problems so you take anti-acids and whatever and I thought this is a nightmare and whatever but I was on the train at least from Glasgow Central as well so I was sitting and sitting and I thought you know what I'll just go off and go to the hospital you took yourself away yeah off the train went to the hospital and it was a heart attack crazy crazy isn't it but that's the only thing you know you think about I saw you think about your family at that point that's all you think when you had the second heart attack what's the feeling of a heart attack so you end up with pain in your arm arm okay tightness real tightness in your chest yeah and your breathing is terrible as well so aye and then when I got off the train that morning and when I get back off thinking right I'm going to go to the hospital I said I just let somebody know on the train you know a train manager or whatever and maybe get the kind of buggy thing or whatever but I ended up walking the line through the platform phoned Elaine and said look blah blah blah I'm going to get a taxi so taxi to the hospital Where did you have the heart attack?

27:08Actually as I was getting on the train and I sat, I was early and I was sitting and I thought do you know what because I had a couple of meetings in London and I thought you know it'll be fine and whatever and I'll just take the gav that's gone I had in my bag took that nothing and then I just thought what am I messing about here for just got off and I was literally minutes for the doors closing and then the next door is Carlisle you know to need to have pulled in somewhere so I was quite happy that I made that decision you know just to get off where was your business at 2019 just before the pandemic hit was it growing in a real nice place we were doing well everyone was wasn't it I know 17, 18, 19 everyone well everyone around me yeah yeah totally we were all on a massive high it was like come on in the event space yeah yeah events world hospitality it was like wow this is fantastic no it was going amazingly it was doing well really really well and then then the pandemic came and that kind of we really struggled with that yeah really struggled yeah not I'm saying really struggled we never really we furloughed a lot of guys and stuff because we had no work no work and then we got a bit of work coming so we were able to bring some of the guys back yeah we were doing like kind of fire warden type security canine security was relatively it was quite busy for us we got a turnout of that as well yeah got to be fair play to the government for doing this thing called furlough that no one knew I know it's like all you lot you can go off work the government it's like result yeah and everyone's that's the happiest I've ever seen in the country I know I know everyone's in the garden drinking rugs at two and three in the afternoon people back it changed the world like all of you pandemic's finished can you all go back to office everyone's like I ain't going back there no chance we had a guy that was supposed to come back in June so we contacted him and said we need you back you know need to come back to work and he says well doesn't actually suit me at the minute what about October he was a supervisor as well no what's happened to you I heard a Gen Z come in for an interview she was fantastic and at the end of it she's going I just want to let you know I don't want to work Fridays I was like what do you mean I don't want to work Fridays Fridays are about looking after my mental health i'm like she was 19 20 i was like wow yeah so it's amazing different mindsets yeah totally yeah fed into that fed into that's right yeah where are you where are you today what do you look for in a new opportunity within business like for you and your company you're like right i've spotted that festival i spotted that big event or i've spotted uh I don't know such and such coming over flying over to the country how does it work for you?

29:48We just basically just anything that's coming up see for contracts that's coming up in that area in that space if there's any contracts coming up or event work or anything that's coming up there as well VIP events and stuff we get contacted for quite a wee bit there sometimes we don't get contacted as much as I think we just purely by getting our name out there you know just as much Do you got a good reputation? Yeah a very good reputation yeah yeah yeah so it's just a bit getting my name out there is there one contract that really springs to mind that you're like oh my god you know what I worked on that contract I built a brilliant relationship up we put a proposal in and we end up getting the deal is there one contract that springs to mind yeah I can't even the problem is I can't even name the clients yeah it did yeah does it when you I know you can't name the clients because they're high profile I know that you're very protective of that which is great yeah what is your business model is your business model exactly what I just said there yeah basically so in relationship back and forth back and forth there's a proposal and then once the proposal is out you're sitting there knowing that you've got three or four other contractors looking at that same job and you're hoping you're going to get an email back or a phone call back going Eddie mate you've got the job yeah just going to end and present and stuff to them as well and letting them know exactly how you run the business tell me the feeling of your biggest ever contract that you'd won that gave you a massive spring in your step but we just actually won one just there, we just won a contract and that was fantastic, we actually thought when we went in we actually got contacted to go in for the tender for it, I thought wow that's amazing to be even asked along for it, so we went along and we got it so it was fantastic I've got a lot of really good guys for presenting I do it myself, along with a guy, Scott McKechnie, who's an ex-detective chief superintendent for the police really really top top guy yeah um and and we use what operations guys and and you know the rest for the uh for the pitches and stuff for the tenders but there's a lot of a guy tom he was um prince charles he's technical technical and tactical advisor and so i've got a lot of top guys within the business he was ex-special forces and stuff so we've got a very strong core team you know no one's gonna mess with your company are they oh yeah really good mike these are the lists we got on our list who wants to fight with us no no you'll end up losing that one I can do it tell me tell me where you're at today with your business like do you feel like you're in the best possible place you've been in in the whole of the 20 years you've been doing this yeah solid the team's solid the training's it's a really really good place to be and that's where where we are just now is we're ripe for growth we want to really really push on really push on with growth because the opportunities we've got at the minute are tremendous.

32:35Isn't it amazing when you look into businesses? I love business. I love people. I love entrepreneurship. Business takes time because all you've got is your reputation and all your reputation and all you've got is your trust. And you've built trust over 20 years and your reputation over 20 years to be in the position to get these massive contracts. Are there contracts out there that are even bigger contracts than you've got that you would like to get? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. give me an example of a contract you'd love to get there's just there's an abundance of a contract we do a lot of work through luxury bonded warehouses and stuff luxury bonded warehouse what's that yeah so that's where their luxury goods are so they're all kept there bonded warehouses aye so bonded warehouse we've done a bit of work in there as well but just bringing the standard there that's the big thing for us is everywhere we go we bring the standard we're so so hard on making sure that we get that right a bit really strict You've got a mix of special forces, detectives.

33:31Yeah. Who provide a lot of the training as well for the guys. You know, who come in there and give them life experience and stuff. And, you know, it's just tremendous. But that training there, let's just break this down. That training there, when you're talking about special forces and detectives and stuff, we've got the best in the world. And you're employing the best in the world. Yeah. On your books. Yeah. Who are your right hand man. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. When you think of it like that and you break it down, it's like, wow, this is like the creme de la creme. And even for the guys that are getting the training from their team, it's tremendous for them as well, the authenticity and everything that's within the training, integrity, everything.

34:07I want to break down this bit here. If SF, Special Forces, are training your men, what are they training them to do? It's about a lot of disciplined situations, how to deal with situations in the right way. So there's a lot of that involved in it, being calm, under pressure, a lot of these things. We're just constantly training with the guys. Yeah. Constantly. Are you allowed to carry? No. You're not allowed to carry any guns or nothing? No, no, no. Okay. Are you allowed to carry anything? No, no. Pepper spray? No. Coshies? No. Nothing? No, nothing at all. Wow. That's unbelievable really, isn't it?

34:43When you think the high profile people. Do you know when you see someone like Prince Charles? Yeah. Walking around, you see like four or five men hanging around. They must be carrying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they're allowed to carry? Yeah. Okay. Who's not allowed Who is allowed to carry? I said military and the police Really Okay That's who I'd carry We don't carry Okay No Does that make you feel a bit vulnerable sometimes? No Not really I think there's so much work put into what we do Of the planning Yeah Everything Everything we do Do you know This is a proper random one I've just thought Do you know when Donald Trump got shot That lad on the roof Yeah Is your work planning something like that?

35:28Not necessarily, well, I see where you're coming from. Yeah. Yeah. To a degree, I, it is. So if you all have got high profile, the plan is, well, we know he's coming to the state on that day. We've got 40, 50 men plotted in different places and this is what the map looks like. This is where my men are going to be stationed. This is where we're going to keep an eye on. Yeah. Wow. So if there's like, you know, everything's taken into consideration, quickest route to the hospital, stuff like that, for these kind of that kind of level yeah do you have to when you're like high security like that is there something like I will protect you with my life do you know when they say I'll protect you with my life like if it's life or death they've got the confidence in who's looking after them yeah 100 % yeah 100 % they're going to be the people that go forward yeah yeah so if something kicks off they're in straight away yeah yeah got it got it got it I'm still going back to that Trump here I can't think of that but you know when he did get shot see all the men all the security around him knowing that they could all get shot if the bloke would let rip it they could have all got shot exactly we had a situation two or three years ago where we had one of the locations we were working at got attacked where four guys with machetes that come off these mopeds you know during the day but we put a lot of training into the guys as well as in evacuation look after the customers look after the staff look after you know and we also train our guys for you know situations where I bleed out situations and stuff advanced first aid for stuff like that how would you deal if someone's coming at you with a machete you personally well at this age I was going to say run at this age I'm not too far I would get I'm all away alright so I know there's not a lot you can do there to be honest how do you feel about being like when you see London now with these kids, 14, 15, 16, carrying these zombie knives and machetes and stuff.

37:30I've seen it change in the last three years. When you're looking in as the owner of a security firm, are you looking at it thinking, my God, it's like the Wild West out there? Yeah, I think it's certainly got a lot worse. I think, no, just in London though. I think it's got... Major cities. I think major cities have got a lot worse. Yeah. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know whether the deterrent's there anymore. I'm not really sure what's allowing it, but there's just no, there doesn't seem to be a lot of thought into what they do. You know, they just do it and they're young as well, you know, so there's a lot of impact, both sides there as well and it's just crazy.

38:11You just nailed it on the head there, there's no deterrent. No. Imagine if that young kid, 15 year old, his mum and dad see him with that or her with that or whatever and the old bill catch them, you go, right, seven years. That'd be a deterrent. Yeah, yeah. All they'll do is confiscate it and slap on the wrist and away they go, they might get a fine or something. I know. Why would there, there is no deterrent. No, no, it's crazy. What would you do if you were head of security of London? I think there needs to be, I don't know, they just need, they think it comes in, it ultimately comes into sentencing.

38:44I think that's what it is. If you were doing that, you would need to be looking at sentencing to make sure that the deterrent's here in the first place so that they're actually worried about getting caught but rather than getting caught and going through the system and it doesn't really, you know, just as you were saying there, if you were getting something like that, you know, a severe sentence, I think that's a big thing. So I would make sure that was a bit stricter in that. Why do you think that someone like the Mayor of London or the Met Police don't just put a new law in and go, if you're caught with a zombie knife or you're caught with a knife, you are going to get a minimum of seven years.

39:16Yeah, I have no idea. Is there a reason why they wouldn't do that? No, no, no, I don't understand it either. I don't understand it. I'm sure it's a real simple thing to do. Must be. I've never even heard it being put forward as something that we're going to trial or whatever it is, to see if it has an impact, but it must have an impact. I don't understand. I don't understand. No. But there's a law out there saying if you write something on social media, which is bad towards the government and the police, you can get two years. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Even if they went, even though they said, oh, you're caught with a knife or a zombie or whatever, you're going to get two years.

39:49That would prevent people to slow people down, wouldn't it? 100%. I don't understand why. No, I don't either. I don't either. What's the next move for you after coming up to 20 years in business? So growth. Growth, okay. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's what a big push. That's where we are at the moment. Yeah. You've got a lot of mouths to feed. Yeah, there is. Isn't there? There is. 80 people to feed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. That's 80 people every single month with payroll. What's your monthly payroll? roughly I should have brought Mary and she did office manager she does apparel but probably I don't know it must be £250 ,000 maybe more maybe more aye my god so aye that's a lot when you break you must break it you must sit there do you actually ever sit there and look back and go commandos detective built my own business Have you ever taken a moment to actually stop and look back to see where you've come from those days when you were travelling down to London and six weeks away from the missus and the kids and to where you are now in a position where you're going, I've got a quarter of a million, 300 grand every single month to pay out.

41:01Yeah. Yeah. And I absolutely, you know, where I am in the business, I absolutely love it. Yeah, I can see. It's absolutely fantastic. And it's good for bringing the kids on as well. You know, one day I'll be leading us, you know, it will be the kids. They'll be the people that's running this forward. You'll be there pulling the strings. I know. Definitely. Even if you're going to let go of that. Definitely not. Definitely not. But I think it's really good to have the two of them as well, knowing that they're well up for this and more than capable of doing it as well, you know. That's lovely to keep it in the family.

41:34Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Is there any, when you're dealing with family, has there been any sort of in-house clashes about decisions on the business? You mean from us as a family? Yeah. All the time. Right, okay. No, there's not so much, you know, but what we do is we make sure we bottom it out. We never ever, you know, oh, that's wrong, that's wrong. There's nothing wrong. You know, at the end of the day, you know what, like, it's thrown to the table and we'll blow. Speak about it. I can come up with an idea sometimes or something's happening or here's my kind of tuppens worth. Do you know, do you know, like, as a dad and the owner of the business, if you come up with an idea and you're setting your ways in that and your son, your daughter, we're like dad no way we ain't doing that that's a ridiculous idea 100 % 100 % where's the point where you back down because at first you're like no no no I know better than you guys I've been in the game for years where's the point you go home and go do you know what I might be alright and there is a bit like that sometimes you go to say do you know what you've got a really good point there I get a link to tell them I was there get your message to tell you okay you said it was okay no it's it's quite it's as I say we're really open as a family really open as a family And I think that's the best way to be.

42:46I remember, I think it was Tom Farmer who owned QuickFit and sold it. And he said that he always had a setting at the table for dinner at night for the business. Say that again. He always had a setting at the table for the business. So when they were sitting at the dinner table, we would discuss the business. Always discuss the business? Always. And he said there was always a setting at the table. so that's where I can was an amazing thing for me the Entrepreneurial Exchange in Scotland was unbelievable you know you hear these guys speaking and it was just it was amazing there's not a better feeling for me personally being in a room with entrepreneurs and business owners there's not a better feeling you can have a buzz, you can learn, you can buzz you can give great value you can have the best conversations and also you know business is business is it's the same isn't it you know no matter what you do it's the same it's the same strains and constraints and all these different things on your life that everybody goes through you know but you're lucky you've chose a business that you love yeah I've got a business that I love the sport music festival and doing the podcast I love it I wake up in the morning I'm buzzing to do that but imagine having a business that you've thought there's a gap in the market you've invested three years growing this business and then realised there might not be a gap in the market.

44:10You might be 100 grand in or 200 grand in that you can't lose because you borrowed it off your dad, your uncle, your wife, a bit off the bank. And then you've got to make a decision after three or four years to go, it ain't working. Then you're in debt with 200 grand or 300, whatever numbers it may be. Yeah, yeah. It's tough, man. Really tough. That was, when Spymasters went down in 2008, that was how I felt then. I was thinking, what's next? But you just tramp on, you just keep hammering forward, you just keep doing your thing yeah you just keep tweaking all I do is tweak like failure is not in my vocabulary tweak tweak tweak tweak until you find a route correct you've got to yeah you've got to yeah what is the what's the ultimate goal for you right now moving forward we're now in 2026 moving forward to get the bigger contracts yeah are you looking for investment someone investing to come into your business at all yeah we've something we've definitely discussed as I think you know to try and help us grow a bit quicker as well because we're hammering on here you know we've got a lot a lot of great people within the business who are focused and and growing and that's where that's where we want to be so I would definitely look for and have you split have you is your business split three ways between you and your two kids no no I'm silly between myself and Elaine but I can have it when they're ready that's right that bit where they disagree no I don't have anything only other than that so the business is perfect though because when the time's right there you go it's all yours just make sure I've got a load of money coming in each month I ain't got to do anything exactly exactly what would be the ideal scenario for you like is there someone that you have you sold a business before no no okay I've been lucky enough to sell a couple of businesses along my journey have you ever thought about putting something in place now to identify who you would like to buy shares in your company?

46:09I haven't overthought about that to be honest. Okay. It would be great to get some sort of fit, you know, but like I say, it's just like business if there was another, somebody that's at that level in business, you know, that would be absolutely fantastic. Is there someone who's bigger than you in the same industry who you look at and go, do you know what? They'd be an ideal to come and buy us. Yeah. Have you got a good relationship with them? Yeah. Yeah. I think as well I think they need to be buying your values and stuff as well I think there's got to be otherwise you won't do it I've turned deals down because the deal on the paper great did it and then the more you think about could I actually work that person no I've never been employed in my life I would never want to be employed but for someone coming in wanting to buy you and then you're going to have to deal with these people no it's got to be that's one of the most important things I totally agree I totally agree everything's got to remain that way so it's got to be a fit definitely definitely when would you like investment?

47:09we're ready you're ready yeah yeah yeah and would you let go of any of the well let go of any of the the power that you have would you be okay letting go percentages? I think I think for the there would need to be a discussion when percentages yeah I think for anybody that was coming in to invest in a business I think they need to understand they're obviously coming in and invest in a successful business so they need to understand that the people that are driving the business forward and this is a plan i think they need to understand that as well but listen we're flexible with and how we're approached for everything that's what i'm saying is that even with my kids or our senior team and stuff that's how we would discuss things all the time you know that's quality we've had people on here we had uh alex packham on here and we had a conversation and someone got in contact with me and said dodge i really want to invest in alex packham yep within a week that person invested 150 grand into his business and another one who was the other one Farah Darva 100 grand into his business like this podcasting thing really works you know because the exposure that our guests are getting and opportunities are coming here and I'm just linking you up and stepping away it's a great medium what's your is there a number that you a percentage of what shares you would like to let go or you would let go I think I'd need to look at valuations and stuff there you know just to see what, I think firstly, what kind of investment we're looking for, you know, size-wise to get to where we want to be.

48:42What sort of, in your industry, what sort of net profits, percentages do you work on? It just depends. Depends, is it? I mean, competitor knowledge here, but it just depends on contracts, whatever contracts you're in. Okay, so each year at the end of the year, you might have got a big contract and the gross profit's a lot bigger there. And at the end of the year, the net profits were a lot bigger that year because of the different contracts. Okay. and when you when you work on contracts are you working on like yearly contracts can you sign three years and five years three year contracts there's minimum three yeah brilliant having that piece of paper that three year piece of paper is a huge value when you come to sell it yeah yeah totally totally I want to go I want to go a bit further back like what were your Royal Marine Commando days like and how old were you they were fantastic I was 22 um two um 22 and i joined and uh that was amazing amazing i came from a i came from a really rough upbringing as well you know i came from a lot of alcohol a lot of violence a lot of stuff like that within the house and stuff started off in the building site you know it's like everybody does was working at the building site for a bit but i always always wanted to go and join the marines always and i'd put it no put it off just time moves yeah you know and then i got to a point where I thought I need to join.

50:01Yeah, just joined. Joined the Marines, met an amazing amount. I got, you know, really, really good guys. The guys that I joined with, they're 16 years, still in touch. And I've been meeting up all the time with just cracking and cracking guys, you know. We've got a WhatsApp group running. Not many men can say that these days, you know. No, no. But actually, we're quite unique, even within the Marines. We don't know other guys that have, you know, with a joining troop, a lot of them lose touch and stuff but we've managed to get we've kind of lost contact at one stage you know because obviously there was no WhatsApp that's right all of a sudden people can social media bring back people back together again yeah totally and it's just an amazing amazing even last night one of the guys his dog died and everybody's gutted for having been it's just unbelievable yeah amazing you know relationships extraordinary isn't it fantastic it's incredible what was it were you a Celtic fan or a Glasgow fan a Rangers fan Rangers fan Rangers and for a long period of time it was a long slog there in the leagues yeah do you know that's one game I really want to go to the derby aye if you ever fancy it mate I'd love to do you know I was a co-host with on the Harry Redknapp show aye me and Harry and we had Sir Rod Stewart on right and he's a massive Celtic fan and he and this was 2020 and he said on the podcast boys you two I'll get you a private jet and fly you up to the game we haven't taken him up on it like I'm thinking what am I doing not taking this up this is like a dream too yeah exactly he could fly you up there as well yeah wow but that looks like a tremendous atmosphere great atmosphere isn't it yeah what was it like going into the police force and what made you then choose that you wanted to be a detective did you find that you did you know you had a skill inside you well first of all you go into uniform yeah you're first in on the streets yeah and then after a short period of time I seen that there was plainclothes units who were just mainly getting warrants you know working the streets basically and getting warrants and turning houses and stuff like that and then once I was doing that I thought to myself right always I think as well just like yourself just always driving forward on you yeah and when I was doing that I thought right I fancy getting fancy getting into one of the covert teams and I went into the um the one for the Strack Lake Police that was in there and which we covered all over the country we're on down the road as well you know England and stuff that and then I'd been in there for a number of years and I think then end up going from there in the special branch finish my time and yeah yeah yeah it was my last my last button there's in for a couple of years whereabouts and and Scott yeah and school and what's the difference between the special branch that's national security so yeah that's that's purely with a foot and that they're dealing you're dealing with every day you know as national security examples you've got any examples of you being was there any times when you thought you could lose your life at all no but I was just like anybody that does surveillance there's a lot of dodgy situations you get yourself in because you're on your own a lot of the times there's a few dodgy situations that I found myself in like everybody that does surveillance at that level give me a time when you think that something you could have come unstuck somewhere and surveillance?

53:18I remember just a bizarre thing. It wasn't even like... I remember going into a bar in a rough area and it was a huge bar, a big long bar. And I walked in and there was screens at the end and they were playing pool at the end of the bar. And I walked in and that was the only entrance exit of the place. And I walked in and the bar was like halfway along, you know, as I walked up. And as I walked past people, they stopped speaking. everybody did and it just ripple effect all the way up so much when I got to the bar so the bar's in the middle the pool table's at the top and I ordered a pint or whatever it was ordered a pint and the guys that was playing the pool had stopped as well the whole pub was looking at me and I thought oh no this is no good and then we covered it up by just using a bit of tactics and stuff like that and it was fine bit of tactics but Michael Jackson moving up backwards and I was thinking how am I getting back out here and your body suffered the way out the door I think but I know it was fine but it was just you know you're always kind of because you're on your own it must be weird though it must be more weird like being a detective or being a high end policeman or whatever in the city that you live in so one minute you could be nicking someone and the next minute you're going to a restaurant with your wife or whatever and all of a sudden someone's clocked you and you're thinking I've clocked them oh no I never really got did you not?

54:41nah because I was always kind of But I'm trying to see, you know, we're always kind of in the shadows in our line of work. So I never really come across anybody that ever dealt with that kind of level. That was fine. In an ideal world, who'd be your perfect, if you could wave a magic wand, what would be your perfect scenario now in your business?

55:09Basically for growth, that's where the perfect scenario for us is growth. We are absolutely set for it. That's where we are. Okay. So someone out there listening out there, they want to get involved. This is the right time. Yeah, definitely. What do you need? Do you want someone's mind? Do you want someone's mind and money? Do you want someone's money? Well, I say really flexible about that. Yeah. Really flexible about that and what the approach is there. But yeah, we're right for growth. Absolutely right for growth. And when you say growth, like if you're turning over£9 million a year at the moment, what is the next step is it 20 or is it 50 what are you jumping up to I've got to have a figure I would like the business to be way up there yeah in where what sort of numbers so if we go from 10 to 20 yeah and then again go again 20 to 30 and just keep growing and growing the business yeah no we're really really keen to keep going and what is the ultimate goal then to keep growing keep growing keep growing is it one point to walk away and sell out and go do you know what possibly I've got a big lump in the bank now my fat kids are happy my wife's happy I'm happy and then someone can take that business on or do you feel like as a founder led business that you're the face of it that anyone who comes and invest in it will want you to carry on I think that's the thing as well especially with the business you know we've been doing it that long it's just really really difficult to sell right away you know that kind of thing and I also look at Emma and Greg are they going to want to drive it forward as well which they're really really keen to do as well they are they really keen so someone coming in will go hold on a minute I've got Eddie I've got the son I've got the daughter yeah but there's no like I say to deal with I think there must be if I was an investor I would look at that and I'd think you know do I sit outside here but it's certainly no way of business no I think I think it's a good thing if I was invested in that I'd think hold on I've got the main man there I've got the son and daughter coming through who are 20 odd years younger 25 years younger whatever this could be the way forward yeah and it's yeah it definitely works definitely works why do you need investment?

57:11I think just to cover that bit of growth you know because obviously with growth comes more cost and stuff like that just to make sure that everything we've done loads of business planning for this as well so it would either be you know you could take it through other sources but an investor would be a good move I think yeah interesting interesting I wish you all the best on that that's a real what you've achieved over that period is fantastic isn't it do you know it's just into hard work isn't it it's just like you know well you're persistent you're consistent you're relentless you're obsessed you're everything to make it work at a detriment to a couple of heart attacks there's a detriment there but you look fit and healthy and strong I feel fantastic where can people where can people find you Eddie where can people go to get more information on you for me personally obviously they would get me through LinkedIn LinkedIn yeah yeah and through our website you see it's www.vigalowsolutions.co.uk And how do you spell that?

58:10V-I-G-I-L-O. V-I-G-I-L-O. Bigelow Solutions. Before we finish up here,

58:20we talked about someone wanting for you to acquire. Would it be better for someone to acquire you who's already in your industry, do you think? Yeah, I think so, yeah. And how many companies are there that are much bigger than you that could... There is a number. there's quite a lot there are a lot you've got different levels when you talk about big companies and a lot of big companies and is it out of those companies is there any that you've got your eye on to say that's a really good fit I know the owner he doesn't know that I'm having this conversation with Dodge right now but I know the owner and if they're listening now would you open up the door there is actually a couple that would be strong contenders I think would be a good fit I really do for our business.

59:09How exciting is this right now? I can feel the excitement. This is quality. Yeah. No, I love it. I absolutely love it. What are the name of those companies?

59:21That was a new leaf. I was ready for you.

59:27I think they'll know who they are anyway. Would you let them listen to this and let them approach you? Or would you let them listen to this and you knock on the door and say, I've had a chat on Dodge on the founder. You know that I'm looking for investment. I think you'd be a great fit. Do you fancy having a steak and a red wine and seeing if we can have a chat here? Yeah, I think I'd be a good shout. Yeah, yeah. I'd be surprised if they've never heard this and then thinking later chat. But when they hear this, they'll probably reaffirm that, you know what, this is the right time for us to do business with Eddie and his kids.

1:00:02Definitely. Do you think your son and daughter would want to carry this on for the sort of obsession that you've got? Or do you think they would want to protect it to a level until one day, say if you did a deal with someone now and you sold on that 30 % and say you got on and in a couple of years time it got to 50 % or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Do you think your kids would be happy enough to get it to a point and go, do you know what, we're done now, Dad. I think you're done in the next 10, 15, 20 years. Or do you think you would like to hold on to the... I don't think. she likes it with that I think the conversation would come I think it would be the right time would to say for everybody involved even the investor involved I think everybody would decide look is it right it's right you know or not no at this stage yeah is there one time in your business that you've gone oh mate kind of like where do I go from here was there a period was there a year in that between the 2008 Yeah.

1:01:04Yeah. Do you remember that year? Yeah. Roughly? Probably about 2010, really. 10, okay. So early doors. Really a heavy, heavy graft, you know, a lot of work. And, but it's just like everything else. I think you just work through it and you look back at that and you think it was a lifetime ago to be thinking like that. Yeah. I've always been massively driven. You've got to be hard, you know, hard work, massively driven. I have grit. You've got to have grit. You've got to. You've got to have grit. But my point I wanted to find out there was really interesting because you were two years in, maybe two or three years in, and I said to you, what year did you do?

1:01:43That normally is the period where 99.9 % of people go, sod this, I'm not carrying on with this. Oh, 100%. Both myself and Alain have spoken about loads, is that there's just, and it's not picking yourself, it takes a certain person just to keep going, even when you're hitting your head against a brick wall. It's a certain mindset. It's got to be. It's a mind. It's got to be. And that's what I've said. There's loads, I've got loads of mates and stuff that I just know that they would go and just pick their work away and stuff. My brother's been in the building industry for years. My brother's older than me, quite about older than me.

1:02:23He's 75 and I remember going through a tough patch. It was at the Spy Masters time when I wasn't sure when the recession came, I wasn't sure whether to call it or not or try and put my money in or whatever. And I remember my brother who'd been in business for years and years and he said to me, look, just call it and get a normal job. And I thought, I'll take the first bit of advice, but I'm certainly not going to go into a normal job. I'm not going to go and just work nine till five. If that was the case, I'd have stayed in one of the best jobs I've ever had. Maybe the best job I've ever had in my life when I've done surveillance.

1:02:57It was the best job. I actually was speaking to to Scott who's who's a senior detective chief super and I was speaking to him maybe a few months ago and stuff and I would do it tomorrow really in a surveillance operation for nothing really police became skint and said we need people to come out and help I would do it and do it ship all the old boys back in but I absolutely loved it the buzzer the whole thing was just amazing it was the best experience ever yeah yeah so that's lovely to hear aye aye Not many people can say that, you know. Yeah. Like they love a range. They love being detected. They love building a business.

1:03:35That's a good 40-year period there. Plus. Yeah. I have just, honestly, I've been so, so fortunate. Been blessed. Totally blessed. And I did, I met a guy, Paul Donaldson, really, really good pal of mine. He ended up going, he became really senior in the police. He was in surveillance with him for years and he was brilliant at it. He was really, really good. And I said that to him when I met him. I just bumped into him one day. was it with Greg, my boy, and we were actually looking for office furniture from our Glasgow office and went to the wrong place. Now, he was just walking along the street and it was only the three years on the street.

1:04:06It was bizarre. And he was one of my best mates and I said to him, you know, I look back on this and I just think, how blessed were we? How lucky were we? You know, it was incredible. Yeah, good for you. It's nice to hear. I know, I loved it. Loved it. I love your positivity. Got it. You got to. Got it. You got to. You know, you won't be where you are a day in business if you didn't have that optimistic mind you've got to got to make it work we will make it work everyone's fine we'll get it together don't worry we'll pull it together whatever it takes we'll get there and you've got there and now what I like about it you're even wanting more growth got to just before we finish up here Eddie have you got any last words to say to your amazing wife I would just like to say thanks very much for being there right through the a lot of the a lot of the hard times and obviously we've enjoyed a lot of tremendous times as well she's just always been there she's an angel isn't she absolutely I said to her as well I remember when I was in the Marines and I said look when I leave here that's it I'm nobody I'm nobody going away again you know because we hated being away I actually believe it or not two nights before I joined the Marines I met Elaine two nights before and then we old-fashionedly in the days in the late 80s we wrote to each other there was no text so we were writing to each other and then so but I said to her when I finished up in the Marines I said oh that's it I'm not going away again I'm not doing that again and then I went at the police and then undercover what was always away then I said right I'm going to sell my own business and I won't be away I love that then you end up selling the company you go back home and she'll go for Christ's sake go away will you 40 years later don't step in my time who are you who are you Eddie I've absolutely loved this mate thanks very much Dodger yeah this is great to speak to you yeah lovely to speak to you what a lovely human being you are and what you've built is wonderful thanks very much i really appreciate you're a good man thanks cheers mate take care cheers hi guys i really hope you enjoyed that as much as i did can you do us a favor and leave us a review as it massively helps us grow the show cheers guys