FOUNDER #36. Why Most Entrepreneurs Quit Just Before it Works - Dodge Woodall

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0:39Go to decagon.ai slash bizacast to get a personalized demo and see what Decagon can do for your team. Check Decagon out at decagon.ai slash bizacast. That's decagon.ai slash bizacast. Welcome to Ask Dodge. I'm an entrepreneur who's built five businesses over the last 28 years, exited two of them, and still running three today. On this show, You'll get straight talky and real business chat with no fluff. I think we're going to help thousands of people in business. I've got my good mate with me, Marky Masters, who's going to be the co-host of the show. Dodge, looking forward to this. If there's something you guys want us to answer, send your questions to askdodge at dodgewhiddle.com.

1:23I hope you enjoy, everyone. Hello, listeners. Welcome back today. Dodge and myself. We're going to look at the points that nobody picks up on is when it goes quiet. or when nobody's there, but you're still showing up. It's the messy middle, everyone. It's the messy middle special. I have things that I kind of like to pick up with our friend Dodge. First of all, how is Dodge today? How are you today? You all good? I'm good, mate. I'm good. Looking forward to this. I look forward to these because I never know what questions you're going to ask, what's going to come out. I'm going to go straight for the jugular.

2:05So I was told, there was somebody who said, mention to Dodge about the night he opened a club, invited everyone in, and nobody turned up. The shame of you standing up now and being honest. And tell us this story when it didn't go according to plan. Yeah, it went totally against what we had planned and what was working. We had 12 nightclubs every week from 1998 to 2008 in my 20s and we had clubs from Manchester Birmingham Leicester Wandsworth in London East London Brighton all the cities so imagine putting on 12 every single week you're juggling a lot all on the end of a mobile and having teams of people in every city you're taking the door money you're taking the bar money and I remember being in this club it was a Tuesday night in Wandsworth and it was always packed like 1500 students Roehampton students University of Surrey everyone would party on a Tuesday night then you'd have all the London Irish rugby players, the Harlequins players, Wasp players, you know, the Lawrence DeLaglios, all the big faces would come on a Tuesday night and get smashed basically and dance in them and laugh in an old club called the Theatre, we had it, it was called Liquid.

3:19And we were there kidding it all out and you have all the inflator balls out there and you have the drapes, you draped the whole club out. And I remember inviting a good mate of mine from school, Chris Bentley, never forget this, I think it was the last time I saw him in fact. this must have been 2001 and it was been packed every week for years come along mate it's amazing it's like 70 % chicks it's unbelievable it's a great party you're going to love it waiting outside there as you're waiting as a promoter there's normally like a thousand people queuing up at 10 o 'clock just before 10 o 'clock it was literally no one all the bar staff were waiting there all security waiting there and literally no one We're like, what is going on here?

4:02Me and my best mate, Chris, was a partner, my best mate and partner in that club. We're like, what? And we found out that the university put a massive block on all students going to this nightclub. And then you've got, you've got, you know, you've invited your mate who's come up, who's travelled up for like an hour and a half to come and see it. And you're like, yeah, you're bigging it up again. Yeah, this is amazing. What's the part in here, the atmosphere that we create? And da, da, da, da. Literally zero people in the club. So that was the night. It was just a, a rubbish night out for him. Well, for him it was, of course it was.

4:35We still had a laugh, to be fair, but what I'm saying is, I guess what your question is, is that things can happen overnight to completely stop your business. It didn't stop our business. It woke us up to go, well, how have they put a block in it? What have we got to do now? So we'd end up promoting harder and we did all sorts of things to attract the students back. But when the university actually put a block in it, it said no one to go to that club. They've got the power to do that. Do these things make you just big lessons or are they enabled to make you stronger in what you're doing the next time?

5:05It's a lesson. It's a lesson. It's a lesson of people out there, if you're doing something, you could lose your income overnight. But again, we had 12 clubs. So if you lose one, you've still got another 11. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like that. So you've always got to spread your bets. Oh, that's a good one then. that idea then of spreading your bets. Imagine if it was just that one nightclub and then you would have been like, that would have been... Yeah. So this lesson here of whatever we're building, there's always going to be these kind of wobbly parts. But as long as sometimes we need to protect ourselves and cover ourselves, and that may be diversifying and moving into other areas.

5:47I think it's really important to have different new revenue streams coming in in the world we're in today. That was in 2001. Do you know what I mean? and we were thinking about it back then. But all you've got to have is if you're, you know, our competition was the students' union back then. And if you're taking 20 grand away from the students' union, they're going to get up to a point after a year or a year and a half, they're just going to go put a complete block on it. As if to say, no one go there, you're not taking the door money, the club's not earning any bar money. All the security won't be allowed to work for every single Tuesday because they've got no money.

6:18The bar staff won't be able to work. So all of a sudden, you know, you've got to... But it was a massive learning. this thing around you don't really know until you're in it do you like how long were you how long were you still in that club space when that happened back all those years ago another couple of years did you look back on it then when you as you were going this was quite pivotal this thing that we did here or did it just become a really good story or did it become something that we took a lot that we learned from that and now that's applied to everything else yeah well you just it's knowing that you can't sit on your hands we never did we were good promoters we promoted hard with flyers and posters and building teams of people up and making sure the captains get looked after, the sports teams and the main faces on campus and all that.

7:02Because you generate that crowd, they bring a massive crowd as well. So anywhere from 1 ,000 to 15 or 2 ,000 people every single week paying three quid to get in. Does that happen with the podcast as well, where there was a point where it's things like plot along? Were there moments with the main podcast where you just know that you're just doing it, where you're not seeing like, not necessarily listenerships dropping, but things aren't going in a place where you wanted it to? Well, I never really had a plan to where I wanted the podcast to go. I was just doing it and I was loving it. And if you do it and you love something and you can get up every day and do it, it will end up working because you're just doing it every single day and you're consistent and persistent.

7:48But there are times like in this podcasting world now, because it is a business. When we first started, it wasn't a business. It's only in the last few years where different social media brands are actually paying you. You know, all of a sudden, Facebook is starting to pay. All of a sudden, TikTok is starting to pay. All of a sudden, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Acast, they're all starting to pay and all the different monies come in. So you're in this game now of the more views you get and the more eyeballs you get and the more reach you get, the more money you get. It's a real simple business model.

8:19But you might put out something on YouTube where you know that people are going to absolutely love it. Then you might put something on YouTube where you go, I absolutely love this, but the masses may not in a certain genre. Yeah. You know, and that's a real interesting one. And that's something like, you know, like military, SAS, SBS, special forces work really well. The criminal underworld works really well on YouTube. ex-policemen and whistleblowers and all that kind of stuff seems to really work well on YouTube. But the other stuff that works really well on Spotify and Apple are like England Rugby Legends and all the other stuff works well on the other platforms as well.

9:03But what I've learned, Mark, over the years is that YouTube is a very different crowd to Apple and Spotify. Apple and Spotify, I find, are people who go to the gym, having a session, or they're in the car, they flick it on, or they're taking a dog walk. YouTube crowd are people who sit there and watch watch you on a one-to-one with someone you know it's a different they're two different audiences. Where do you see the future? Where's if you if you had to place your bets on one you'd like to go further on what would it be? I think you can't I think YouTube's an absolute beast an absolute beast but so many people are uploading to YouTube like copious amounts of people it's a hard one to crack but when you crack it it's fantastic.

9:44Come back to thing of cracking what the the thing that we want to do and what we want and what we want to work say for instance we've talked before on shows about knowing the gap in the market and there's people there that we can serve and we've talked about as well about knowing your numbers and how we address this but sometimes as we're going it can be quite a lonely and isolating path that it may not be working we may not be seeing the return of the spice we know it's right i just want to pick up on some areas where it could be dangerous for someone does it become dangerous when we start looking over our shoulders and start comparing our work to somebody else I certainly don't do that I definitely think the power is being in being unique and being you and being real if you start going oh my god I must tweak that I must take it I must copy them because yeah apparently that's the correct way to no just do you naivety and business is a superpower the more naive you want you're jumping into it, it's fantastic because you're not trying to chase anyone or trying to go, I must do it like them.

10:42Look, there's people out there at the moment, Marky, who have grown their podcast to dizzy heights like Stephen. You know, he's massive worldwide. Massive, massive, massive. But what people, and he's done very, very well, and massive respect to him. But what people don't understand is that he'll spend 100 grand a month on advertising his podcast, which is great. we haven't spent a penny we've done it completely without spending one penny, one pound note on advertising our podcast you know so what we've done is it may have taken a lot longer to get to where we are today, we could have sped it up if I would have chucked a million pound a year onto 1.2 million pound a year onto promoting a podcast but I wasn't doing it for that, I'm not doing it for that I'm doing it to bring good stories to people good entertainment, they might educate as well what about when you have a low response for instance that you're trying to make something work and you know that you want people to engage and join in and post and leave a comment to make somebody feel what they're doing is already is working even though it may not be an abundance of comments and just kind of helping steer the right direction what would be your advice to someone on that find it get some real feedback of people like genuinely i want i need feedback because you might be doing a business and you're not getting the feedback you want.

12:05So you've got to go out there and get proper feedback and say, do me a fair, I want you honest. If you think this is crap or it's not good, please just let me know. You need to know. Then you've got your feedback to understand whether it's worth carrying on and pursuing. Because in business, you can carry on because of pride and ego. And you can carry on and carry on and carry on. And you may get yourself into more and more debt because you can't run a business without investing. if that's your money or you're borrowing it from the bank you are going to be in debt so there's a certain time where you go how long am I actually going to give this to see if I'm going to break the back of this you might actually turn around and go I'm going to give it to then and if it's not working by then I've got to cut my losses here you know but cutting your losses on something that's a big thing isn't it yeah I guess that's a lot pride and everything else that goes with it because you're also thinking that people around you are seeing you as a failure you know But I've seen a lot of people who quit, and sometimes they quit at the right time.

13:03I'm like, respect, mate. You've quit at the right time, then you know that it's not going to get to where you need to. Maybe the market isn't there for your product or for whatever you're offering. You have to understand that. But I keep going back to you have to do your homework so much. There's a lot of people who jump into entrepreneurship and business without doing the research that's needed. You don't just do your homework and research. You do it more. You do more, you do more, you do more to get your answers. And as well as that, as you talk about the research, but another thing that I'm picking up in these conversations we're having is this ability to ask and that thing of help us out and what do you think and this thing of relentless feedback from people because other people's input is so valuable.

13:49There's no silly question. So these things, then you do reach out to people. This has helped you make a twist. 100%. 100%. There's no silly question. and don't be afraid to ask a question where you're thinking don't be thinking oh they're going to think I'm stupid asking this real simple question who cares talk to if I'm asking someone say can they give me an answer really clean and simple as if you're talking to a 10 year old it's so much easier because once you get to the bottom of asking a real simple question and you get a real clean simple answer back you can then visualize where that slots in you've got an answer to then ask your next curious question to someone else who who's in that field you know what you're doing there I know I'm seven years behind you but what did you do when this happened and you get some information thank you I really do appreciate that and you're building this picture up in your head you know to to make your business grow so is your advice then don't be reliant on a LinkedIn poll or a poll with where it's just an anonymous audience telling you what to do.

14:57There has to be people out there that you know and respect and friends and everyone else there that can have a vested interest in what you're trying to do and as their best place as well. I do because I've got a good, tight bunch of people around me and I've done since from a very young age. So I know my go-tos because they give me straight answers, like proper straight, brutal. But that's what I want. But also, going back to polls and stuff, they do work as well. If you've got a question there, you have to give the answers in not a way that you want people to choose a certain answer. You know, you want people to give feedback on why they've chosen the name of your business.

15:32If you said, I've got two options for a name of my business, what do you reckon it'd be? A or B? Let people decide. If it's coming in at 50-50, that's difficult for you to then go, I need to make a decision here. But if it's coming in at 75-25 or 90-10, you've got your answer. So you're saying that give people all the options, then you take it to the next stage by backing it up. By asking people why. Yeah. You can get proper paragraphs out of people. Why? What's going through your mind to choose this option? That's lovely. I tell you, there's not a better feeling when you're putting something out there.

16:02I do it a lot on LinkedIn and across other channels to get people's feedback. Hey, guys. We've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands. And if you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three minute video. We've also left the link below as well. I know this thing today that we're talking about is the Bessie middle when things don't necessarily go according to plan or they become that huge success that we aspired to.

16:39We're talking about audio and the podcast. What keeps you going? is it the fact that you know there's an audience out there or is it that oh i'm really enjoying it really enjoying it that's i mean that is a that kind of it has that whole thing of enjoyment is something that we don't necessarily pick up on a lot if it's starting to work or it may not be working what we want as long as we know there's a reason what we're doing and we're enjoying that whole process that yeah but you know we're all in different stages of our life like it doesn't matter what stage your life and if you are launching a business and you're really enjoying it that's great but as long as you've got the funds to support that you know if you're doing a podcast and someone's going oh I think the stat is our people stop after episode nine or ten I'm not too sure what the stat is it's some people stop because it costs money I think because Barrier to rentry is very cheap to become a podcaster.

17:36But when you're up and running, whether it's episode 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and you're like, I've got the cameras, I've got the mics, fantastic, I've got a room that costs you money to rent, then all of a sudden it takes you a long time. It's a long-winded process, a podcast. It's not like you and I having a chat, uploading, job done. There's a creative team in there who make the thumbnails, do the write-up, create a trailer movie, create clips upload it to youtube upload it to spotify and apple then doing all the clips across facebook it's it's a long-winded process it's a business i am also learning from this is that what we're talking about is this becomes a routine if you're if you're starting something and you're keeping going and it and it may be sporadic in terms of still being at the wheel or growth that comes with it.

18:30What you picked up on here is a big point, is that you have to find a routine that it becomes a part of your life. Well, essentially, if you break it down, we've got three shows, we've got Eventful Lives, done 340 episodes of that or something like that. We've got Founder, we've done 18, 19, where founders come on and tell us, that's brilliant, that's another business podcast. That's a business podcast. And then you've got Ask Dodge, which is me being on the other side of the table and you co-hosting and we're just bouncing and you're answering questions that I don't know are going to come out and we're having fun with that.

19:01But actually, if you just had one podcast, someone will have to invest at least 500 quid a week just to keep that podcast going. So if you're going to podcast, it's going to cost you 500 quid in my eyes unless you're doing it super, super cheap and you're trying to get out there. But if you want video on there, everyone wants video. so that's going to cost an editor might be I don't know what you pay an editor you might pay him £200 for the week or then you've got to go and rent a studio luckily we've got our own studios we'd have to rent but all these things start to add up and as you're doing this podcast you're then spending a lot of time trying to find guests through people and if you're not as well if you haven't got a lot of contacts you're then and it's not natural to you to go and hunt people down and open doors that's taken up a lot of hours so your hours that you put into a podcast there's a lot of hours that go into a podcast and there's not a lot of return that comes back because you won't earn money we didn't earn a penny for the first what are we now?

20:07five and a half years in we didn't earn anything for the first two and a half two and a half years so I was funding it myself how do you keep on going through it? is that the fact that there was never an expectation that this was going to, that you'd build something into a business or how do you keep going when you know that there's not a lot there in terms of how you monetize it, how you bring more people in and you're feeling a bit tired and there's a long old slog of a week. That's when a lot of people quit. That's when a lot of people quit because if you're feeling like you can go into the podcast world and all of a sudden you're going to go, oh, I've got a podcast and I'm going to bring myself in a grand a week and I'm going to have 50 grand at the end of the year and I've shelled out 25, I've got 25 in my back pocket, happy day.

20:48It doesn't work like that. You've got to look at this as a medium that is a wonderful medium to have brilliant conversations, open doors for people who you would never normally go and have a chat to. And these conversations lead to relationships. Because when someone leaves here after Eventful Lives or a founder, they leave here going, that was really cathartic, I thoroughly enjoyed that, they've just told you their life. You then have a brilliant relationship with that person moving forward because you've built this wonderful trust. Wherever could you sit down and have a convo with someone for an hour and a half or two hours and you just tell all your life do you know what i mean and and when you build up trust and you build up relationships other doors open because they're like you need to go and speak to dodge because of this and doors just open everywhere and for me i love opening doors and i love giving my contacts to people to open doors as well but the since since i've been doing the podcast for the last five odd years my world has completely changed mark was that the plan though say a couple of years ago that what you're talking about there in terms of doors being opened and new opportunities and conversations had.

21:50Was that ever part of the game plan? No, no, there was no game plan. All of a sudden, I'm in this new business. You're doing it. It's like any business. You're in it and things happen. You're like, that's pretty cool. And then something else happens. And then you get a phone call saying, can I come on your podcast? Then you get all these messages coming, can I come on your podcast? Where before it's like, would you like to come on your podcast? And now it's roles reversed. you know people want to come on and you've got a queue of people wanting to come on and it's lovely feeling as well and and not only is it great conversations you have doors opening that are happening all the time people want to come and sponsor or people want to come and chat to you about business or people have got something that they want it just it's constant doors and also having a podcast also allows you to attract wonderful talent for other businesses the festival business and the other business so it just i can't speak highly enough of being a podcast host and i didn't know what i was walking into if you speak to any podcast host that's been going a good three four five six i'll lay your money all of them say it's wild the opportunities come your way is it important for someone so if they listen to this and they have their own side project that they're working on that could be audio or video or even writing and maybe not seeing a lot return at the moment.

23:13Is it important to think long term or to concentrate on the now? I just keep on fighting. But it comes back down to finances again, Mark. Like, it's so wonderful to be doing something where you're being creative every single day, whether you are writing or you're doing a pod or you're writing a book or whatever it may be. It's going to be a point where you are going to get into it so much you're going, I'm not getting a return on investment here when's the money going to come I'm putting all this effort in and you're earning nothing from it so you're working for zero pounds per hour when you break it down and then you'll get into a position where you're like okay I'm starting to earn money now I'm actually on£1.50 per hour if you broke the hours that I put down but if you keep going and you're seeing that your money's going up there's going to be a point where a lot of people just go I've had enough of this whatever business you're in but if you keep going and you genuinely know you've got something here that is special one day something magical happens and that's like god's gift to you being a entrepreneur again you've you've done the hard yards whether that's three years five years six years here's a here's a gift for you that you've just broken the back of something it's all that being in the game isn't it you have to be in the game you have to be in the game this is a game business is a game entrepreneurship is a game podcasting game everything we do is a game and if you can treat it like a game and you're doing it the smile on your face the game becomes easier I'm going to bring an analogy of a game in.

24:38Do you know what comes into my head then? Go on. Snakes and blimming ladders. Yeah, snakes and ladders. Isn't it? So it's like that, isn't it? Is that you don't know. Because it is tough. You're trying your hardest. Yeah. Or you're seeing other people saying how well they're doing. And you're trying to give something a go. But you know what I mean? As you said there, you're doing something. You're not getting that money in or that sponsor in or that big peak coming in. It's that thing that, and it's that thing of, isn't it, of self-belief. If you believe in what you're doing and know that it has a role to play, I guess from your side, I only started a podcast.

25:08I'm going to reach out to everyone that had done these events that meant that they could share their story that enabled me to progress. If that's coupled with the enjoyment of doing it, have you ever had a project where there was a point where you nearly stopped? What, out of the five businesses over the last? Out of the five businesses or something that was going on, it was like, I'm about to stop all this. I knew you were going to say that. No. No, mate, because I've got to make it work. I don't want to be, I don't, for me personally, I wouldn't want to go, I'm stopping, I've lost all that investment for the last three years and I'm walking away from this.

25:46I just can't do it. I'll find a way. I'll find a way. I'll keep tweaking, tweaking, tweaking until something works. But I enjoy the chaos, I guess. And if you can train your brain to enjoy the chaos and all the madness and you know as an entrepreneur the journey you're going to go through because you're going to go through sleepless nights. You're going to go through financial pressures. You're going to go through looking in the mirror and you're not looking as healthy as you were. Whatever pressures they are, whatever business you're about to launch, you're going to go through this. And you may, in that period, you may lose relationships.

26:22In that period, you may...

26:27It's a... I always talk about it, Mark. It's an extreme sport. You can't play around with this. you can't play around with entrepreneurship. You literally can't. And it's only people who have tried it and gone, fuck it, that ain't for me. Language, potty mouth. I didn't say it. I went, not for me. But they're the people who you can chat to now going, my God, I gave that a go, mate. I'll tell you what it's like. I think it must be like. Don't say snakes and ladders. No, mate. I can relate to it where it's like maybe trying to learn how to ski as an adult. Okay. If you see a... I can't ski. But I'd love to take your ski all the day, mate, and just to see you on the two planks.

27:13But if you see an adult... Is that near Mont Blanc? Rodney. But if you see an adult trying to learn to ski, it's brutal for them. You see them on the green slope with all the kids falling over and sweating, and they're all in one ski uniform. That's what entrepreneurship must be like for someone who hasn't ever tried entrepreneurship. To get that adult to become a good skier, that adult's going to have to do six, seven holidays of learning to ski to become half decent to maybe hit a red slope after the six. Do you know what I mean? It goes like green slope, blue slope, red slope, black, Double diamond black.

28:00I went on holiday last year with friends on a skiing holiday. Did you actually ski? I was the only non-skier. So they were going up the cable cars and everything else. I was absolutely shattered because all they were doing was going up and down. And all I was doing was walking from one place to the other to the Folly Doos. There we go, mate. All I was doing was walking, wading through snow. That's hard graft. It was awful. Mate, I'd love to see you on skis, Mark. Never again. But coming to what you're saying, that's a good little analogy because... Mate, I love how you shifted the convo there when it's going into your backseat skiing.

28:38Where this is what you're coming back to skiing as an adult, as an adult, this little analogy of being an adult skier when you can't ski, is that the whole point that relates to what we're talking about is that when you're doing something, there's no obvious reward, is there? because you're being looked at and laughed at and the other dads, like the Dodge Woodles of this world, have seen the Mark Masters there with their little knees. I'm going to see the old snowplough pizza in down. Here he is. Serious look at my face. But the fact is that there's no reward for it. Just this pain of doing it and having to go through it.

29:13But that's my point. My point is, if you link that to him, you've got to keep doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it, even if you're hating it and hating it. But you're doing it with a smile on your face because you're thinking, I'm on top of the slopes here. The sun's out. I'm in snow. I know later on I'm going to be tucking in the beers and I've had a nice lunch but I've got to go back on the slopes now and learn how to do it. That's the same as someone who's in a corporate job who's got an idea. It doesn't have to be a corporate job. Anyone's got a job and going, right, I'm going to become an entrepreneur.

29:36I've got an idea that I want to turn into reality. And I've got utmost respect for anyone out there listening who, one, who runs their own business, two, is a founder and broken the back and has become successful or the ones that are in that sort of Sahara desert or the dark blue caesars I call it when you're looking left and you're looking right and you're looking left and you're looking right and there's no help anywhere but you are too proud to say I need help. Anyone out there, do not be too proud. Just pick up the phone so whoever is doing it in your industry just ask them for some help. Ask them for some questions because trying to work it all out all yourself is tough.

30:17Because... But that's where curiosity comes back into it, Marking. as well as this thing of resilience that we've we seem to talk about a lot comes back to this idea so there is a thing that dodging myself have talked about here that there is a space that nobody talks about or the space where it is relentless and the place where it isn't rewarding for you but as we kind of highlighted with these silly little analogies the reward is is not there at the beginning. It's about this persistence and keeping with something that you believe in, that you know that can work at some point in the future. But as you highlighted here, it's to support, it's to knowing that it can work.

30:59But unfortunately, we don't know when. But you think about it, if you start at a certain point in starting a business, and then you're three years in, that three years, that thousand days, self-development and improvement and understanding and your self-awareness it's worth the money in itself. You're right. I guess the way that you talk now is a lot different than you probably would have been five years ago. Of course, like anything, it's five years under your belt. It's 19 years of being a festival owner. It was 10 years of being a nightclub student promoter in my 20s or setting up a sportswear.

31:33I'm just learning, even with the sportswear brand, I was learning to deal with factories in China and Pakistan and India and Turkey and Lithuania. It's like, this is all new to me. but the idea of it being new is a beautiful thing. That's a lovely bit because then that return is your own development. Absolutely. That's the return. That's the return that we don't talk about is our own development and our own learning. That's the biggest development. The biggest thing you will have as an entrepreneur is your self-development. You could be in a job for 10 years and just going through the motions and getting your two to six grand a month or whatever it is and going home and watching Netflix but if you are building something.

32:14If anyone's bored out there with their life, go and build something. I'm not talking like go and build Lego or even go and build Lego. People get a big hit out of that as well. But go and build something for you on the side. That feeling of building and having different conversations with different people can't be beaten. Today's show, we're one step away from life coaches. you'll be telling me how to walk across the hot coals if we can I want to get you on skis first mate I want to get you on the skis Marky I would never do that again please it was painful my calves are absolutely killing me walking I'll get you I'll buy you an all in one all in one zip up that'd be nice from the 90s that cost a lot of money all this equipment when you borrow when you borrow mate as long as I've got a camera mate and a video mate with your slopes I'll be happy we're going to leave it there and if you want to pick up or what Dodge and myself have talked about today.

33:12Come and send us an email. Ask us a question. Come to askdodge at dodgewoodall.com. I enjoyed that, Dodge. I'll see you soon. Good man.