FOUNDER #37. Entrepreneurship Nearly Cost Me Everything - Dodge Woodall

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1:46Welcome to Ask Dodge. I'm an entrepreneur who's built five businesses over the last 28 years, exited two of them, and still running three today. On this show, You'll get straight talky and real business chat with no fluff. I think we're going to help thousands of people in business. I've got my good mate with me, Marky Masters, who's going to be the co-host of the show. Dodge, looking forward to this. If there's something you guys want us to answer, send your questions to askdodge at dodgewoodle.com. I hope you enjoy, everyone. Welcome back, listeners. Welcome back. Dodge and myself are going to chat about today, everyone.

2:20It's about giving people a reason to come back. why do people come back? Why do we, a lot of the time, we always, we want the attention from somebody, but really what we want is for them to come back again and again and love it and want more. See, I'm building this up. Do you want me to go higher? Do you want me to go more enthused? Or just go bring it back to earth? Be you, Marky. Just be you, boy. Be you, Marky boy.

2:50Share with us when we're talking about giving people something to, giving people a reason to come back. What's something that you've created where people return again and again? And then I've got a follow-up question. Name me something that people return to again and again. A festival. Why? Because we create a brilliant experience for people. We create a really good experience for people. For the moment you walk in to the three days you're there partying and having fun and high-end. Everything's high-end we do. So if you're playing sport, in the day. You've got high-end referees, umpires, well-organised.

3:28You're creating an atmosphere where people, you're meeting new people you've not met before from different parts of the UK have all come down to come to the festival. There's 30 ,000 people. There's probably 29 ,950 people you don't know. You know, and everyone's like-minded. You get served a cold pint. A pint's quick. People are dancing. People are in fancy dress. It's just a beautiful atmosphere with 12 different festival arenas people can go and enjoy themselves at. And it's safe. So when you create an experience for people, when they're having fun. That's the word, by the way. That's the reason people return.

3:58You've just answered that. Experience. Yeah. Because you create an experience for people and have people have good time and fun. They will come back. But you have to keep your standards really high. You can't let your standards slip. That there is that you create the standards is a big one. So you put the, that's the bar you set for yourself, isn't it? is that I don't want this to, I'm not going to let this slip or I'm not going to kind of let my own, the way that we've all, the way I'm set and how I want everyone to behave. That's the reason people come back is because as well as the experience, it's all about kind of pushing that needle as well in terms of making sure that everybody is bringing their A game for a moment.

4:44Absolutely. And we employ a thousand staff on the day, each day. So you've got 150 securities, making sure the security are nice and welcoming. How are you doing? Welcome. Welcome to the festival. When people leave the festival, half cut or they're not half cut, goodnight, safe journey. Where's your cab? There's a cab rank. Even the cab ranks. Making sure people look down on the cab ranks, making people happy. Like it's, the whole thing is about experience. Do we feel, I sometimes think we forget that though, don't we? Do you think that, people forget that or is it something that happens subconsciously that you're saying there?

5:15Like it's the little things, little things that matter. If there is like a polite, someone on the door. Absolutely. Or someone serving you a drink with a smile. I can get us 10 pints and 10 Jager bombs and they're looking, they've got a nice smile and they're making sure that you're having fun. I wouldn't be smiling if I was the man behind the bar and somebody says, can I have 10 pints and eight Jagers, please? Why not? Because there's a lot to bring back if someone's got to pour all those. It's not a lot. It's all pre-poured. We have those machines at the back that go... They pre-poured. There must be like 500 pints or 1 ,000 pints waiting all pre-poured.

5:56This makes me think, because I understand for what you're talking about here. I'm getting down to the answer straight away, even on minute five, whatever it is, is that it's about people return when they feel a part of something rather than just consuming it. Yeah. Imagine if they come to a festival and they sat down and they had their seat and they sat in their rows and had their bit of a break. But you kind of say, no, I'm creating this environment that people step into that for that moment in time is going to be a real fun experience. But you have to give value for money. You have to. Where are those areas when you talk about value for money?

6:40Where is that? Well, people look at how much they buy for a ticket. If you go to Glastonbury, it's 350 quid. are you getting value for money well for me when i look in if someone's paying it's a lot of money before you your booze and your drink and uh your booze and your food and your transport there whatever you but for five whole days with the acts and the music and the experiences they give you across a massive massive massive site i think that's good value for money where some people go that's not good value for money because i don't want to be in a field for five days using stinky toilets and showers and all the stuff that goes with it.

7:12So, but if you are there or you go to Twickenham, do you get value for money? The tickets at the moment is like under an 80 quid to go and watch an international match. Is that value for money?

7:25It's a lot. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money for the value that you get, but actually for the day's experience, from the moment you wake up, knowing you're going to meet your mates, from the journey up there, having a couple of pints before, having a bite to eat and a couple of pints and getting excited for the game and then going into the stadium and seeing like true warriors fighting for the Bulls to win a match for their country, you know, and then you value it to 180 quid for that 90 minutes. There'll be people saying that's not good value for money for the atmosphere that's created at Twickenham Stadium for that 80 minutes.

8:01And that's the make or break for businesses or anybody that wants to put on something that they want people to come to. But that experience with Twickenham isn't just about inside the stadium. It's outside as well when you're in the fan zone. I've never been there before. When you're having Guinnesses and you're having this and the kids are spinning balls into things and winning prizes and there's a band up there and there's music. That is part of the package. I truly believe the atmosphere with 82 ,000 people in there is not a very good atmosphere. 82 ,000 people in the stadium should be bouncy.

8:37should be rocking. If you go to Wales and go to Cardiff and there's 60 ,000 in a closed roof stadium there, the atmosphere is jumping. You know, when you go to Twickenham, it seems very corporate because your normal bod can't afford the ticket price for an international match and they're like rocking horse to get hold of as well. There it is. He didn't even have to say it. If people don't come back, imagine that. So imagine I'm trying to make something that I want people to buy their ticket and I deliver event one and then I'm going to do event two and then people don't come back. Is that safe to say that you haven't built anything yet?

9:20No, you need to be, you need, if you're going back to building something, you've got to be building something and take them on the journey with you and you've got to story tell. You've got to tell the story and the story of the journey you're on. You have to. Don't be afraid of telling the story. Don't be afraid to say, well, yeah, well, we lost, I don't know, whatever business you're in, you've lost 30 grand. Just tell the story. People will buy into people. But you have to keep improving it. Like a prime example in year one of Bournemouth Sevens Festival in 2008, I thought it was going to cost 100 grand to put on.

9:48Okay. End up costing 300 grand to put on. That's a lot more, yeah. The following year, I knew I had to take the standards up again and higher to have better marquees, better fencing, more security. You had to have more of everything. I could be a better marquee. Like you could go from 300. Next year we went to 450. Okay. but you have to get more people through the doors to break even so every year it's costing more and more and more to put on, whatever event you're putting on it ends up costing more because your standards get higher because the people who are there are like wow they've improved it and when they come back the following night they've improved that, because everyone when you go to an event everyone likes to say that dance tent wasn't there last year or I tell you they've got more security, they've got more showers more toys, they've got better offering around the bar people are constantly wanting to see something improve and if you take them on that journey with you and you are improving that is where you build loyalty and you want them to notice it as well don't you if you're kind of then because in a sense well you're part of you're part of the gang now so you can show off with your mates that weren't here before agree about these additions that you're putting on whether it's a business event or we're talking about there in terms of a an event for everyone else even if you've got a cafe even if you've got hairdressers even if you've got a pub like create an experience for someone as they come in before they get the haircut.

11:03Create an experience with kindness and ambience in there and see your next, see your next, like, you've got to build that relationship. Even the butchers, we've got brilliant butchers where we are. Keaton's, Paul, he knows everyone who comes in. Everyone's name and he has a laugh of every single person. People go back there, not only because it's, for me, one of the best butchers in the country, but it's actually his attitude, his character, his personality, his fun. That's what people go back for, to have that little chat while you're spending God knows on ribeyes and sirloins and chickens and everything else that you're buying there.

11:37You end up buying more. There is a thing you just highlighted there that what helps, as I'm trying to figure out what makes people come back again and again, then you're highlighting there the people that you work with. A big thing is familiarity, isn't it? It's like, I know where I'm going. There's the person I like, whatever store that they had, and that particular food that is right up my street and they're there again. And it's easier to understand. It's not that it's all on you. It's all the people that are a part of it that make this big mix, this great big cake that you're making, that there are so many ingredients that go into it that goes beyond what we initially thought.

12:19Another one, another one, Marky, like if you go to a restaurant that you like and you give them a nice tip at the end of it and there's massive respect there from you to them and what have you and next time you come in and you've booked a table and they welcome Dodge welcome what a lovely average last time here come out I've got a special table for you I'm not saying they've got a special table for you but they take an interest in you that builds this unbelievable relationship that you want to tell 10, 20, 30 friends how nice that restaurateur is or the owner and you know their story because they've told you their story of them building this restaurant up for three years before they started earning money I had exactly that the other week can I name drop go on of course you can So I live in Poole, and I went to a restaurant called The Pickled Berry.

13:01I went there last week, mate. How good. Oh, you've been in there? Last week for my wife's birthday. Carry on, mate. So anyway, it comes to what you were saying there. So I spoke to the owner, the lady there, and she was really nice. You're just picking up a conversation. And she was talking. Again, this picks up you just shared there about storytelling. And she was saying it was her husband. This is his passion. He's a proper foodie. They live upstairs. And this is what he loves and cares about. and this is his life and she's the she's the partner in it with the kids and everything else but they're upstairs because the mum's there looking after the children on a Saturday evening and because she put time in it was really nice because it was like I want to come back in now because the food was amazing but the hospitality and just that kindness to just talk because it made you realize that there was another small business there was a small business there was a family behind it there was stuff behind it it wasn't a chain it wasn't a bunch of people that didn't care they just wanted us to pay our money and then leave agree you wouldn't even mention the pickled berry on this podcast right now if you didn't have a great experience now the tens of thousands hundred thousand whoever's going to listen to this will go pickled berry let me just check that in pool i'll google that oh yeah okay fantastic and i tell you out there we're not paid by pickled berry or anyone but like another lamb what a bloody fantastic restaurant in pool key so if you hear it definitely go and check it out because they are and the service and the food and it just tick tick tick tick and you can tell that the owner cares and the owner's a chef i think he's i think well i got chatting to him as well i think the owner has come from the pig hotel the pig chain or something that he's created his own one now with his family good on them good on them i hope we can do a live one live show from the pickled berry one time why not the nice um the nice feedback we're giving it was amazing how do you turn though these how do you turn these initial interactions that you have with people into an ongoing relationship?

14:56Is it the fact that you do keep in touch with, for instance, that thing of keeping in touch with people? Everyone you meet is a contact. Everyone you meet is a contact. And you might meet someone with the first. I'm certainly like, if I know I've bonded with someone straight away, if I was at a house party or it was a wedding or da-da-da, I was like, I'm not shy to say, yeah, mate, give me your number. I've really enjoyed your company. And let them know you've enjoyed your company. Bam, got the number, bam, send me what I say. I really enjoy it. They stay in touch. I'm not saying you stay in touch every night, but they stay in touch.

15:23Something funny will happen, and you ping them something, and all of a sudden the door will open, or they invite you somewhere, and then you meet some new people and other people. It's just lovely. Because it's all about, yeah, the reason that people come back and they return to what we put on, it comes down to how people look at us, isn't it? Like you say, a nut. Like they come to a festival, and they can see what's happening, and they feel a part of something, and they belong to something. Similarly, on a smaller level, on a one-to-one level, the reason that you return is because you've taken an interest in someone or shown time.

15:53But that's why you've got a following, Mark, in what you do. You're putting on your events. You've got a core people who love you, love you because of the character you are and how warm you are on stage and getting people involved and everyone getting involved. It's refreshing. Yeah, and that thing there of involvement is so important because you don't want to create that transaction of somebody pays and, for instance, they come to a theatre and they sit there and they pay attention. But how can people feel a part of something? And that comes down to having to work really hard to create the things, the experiences that people may not be used to.

16:28For instance, we go in the sea on a Friday morning. I know it sounds ridiculous. But these things of the reason that we do all this stuff is if you do more risky things with people, you build stronger friendships. And it's trying to understand ways. We've kind of talked about being unique. We've always got to kind of figure out these things that aren't served before. so we have to kind of lean into because then if people are getting something that feels familiar such as a conference or such as a festival of some sort but it's how we put our own stamp and interpretation that we say well this is mine now you know and i think that's the really empowering thing isn't it is they say right i we've got a festival and there's a sport theme to it but i made this and i want this to be a really cool occasion for you to love it to bits because I want you to come back.

17:15And it's once a year. It's once a year. And you've got three days to impress. And you've got three days. You've worked all 362 days to put on your festival for three days. And you've got three days to impress that crowd coming, going, I want to come back. I want to come back. And the repeat business we have is off the charts. And that's why we're still here 19 years on. Hey, guys. We've been running this podcast now for five and a half years. We've had some most amazing business guests on here. Simon Squibb, Daniel Priestley, Barry Hearn. The list just goes on and on from billionaires to people who have built brands.

17:49If you want to come on the podcast and talk about your business and sit here with me in the studio and tell your story, go check out dodgewoodall.com forward slash guest and check out the three-minute video. We've also left a link below as well. Is there like a lifespan for festivals? No, there's not like a normal lifespan. Going bust, yeah. What about the podcast? That's the truth. You may laugh at that, but the amount of festivals that have come and gone is outrageous. So it's all down to that? It's just you burn all the money? Well, it all comes down to money, which is very sad, but a lot of things in life come down to money, whether you're gambling and risking your own money or you're gambling someone else's money, investors' money or the bank's money or whatever it is.

18:33But festivals are hard business to crack and probably one of the most riskiest businesses on the planet. So how's Glastonbury still around for 50 odd years? What have they done then? Because that's legendary. That's unique. It was his turf. That's his turf. That's his manner. That's 210 ,000 people buying tickets. That's their kindness. They're giving lots of money to charity, to Oxfam. That's the bigger racks not charging the normal prices they would normally charge. But it comes down to, again, that thing of like, I'm making my cleavers. I made this. I controlled it. and I decide what goes and what happens.

19:10And Emily's taken over now, so she's the face of it. You know, Michael, what a story. What a human being. Emily, what a wonderful human being. Like, it's amazing what they've achieved and it's amazing that they can have fallow years where they go, do you know what? We're just going to let the land breathe. Yeah. Because we can. Yeah. You know, so that's a very, very special. If you've never been, definitely go and check out Glastow. And I know people who comment on Glastow but I've never been. My lowest moment at Glastonbury was I was in the toilets. They pin it in as well, don't they? Have you seen the ones when you can just see your knees and then your head popping up the top?

19:50And there's a massive hole like... Talking of that, so there was the hole? Yeah, the hole. Please don't tell you you dropped your phone down there. I looked down and there was a pair of glasses. Someone had obviously dropped the glasses that were just sitting. And if that was her only pair of glasses... do you go in or do you not go in oh mate it was too far to reach anyone who's listened anyone who's been to glass though knows what these holes look like hey moving it but people coming back can i can i match that we're talking about there of uh the experience that sense of belonging and feeling a part of something and it's this this place of knowing you feel included and the lovely thing of that you can build it you can shape it how you want to do it and and that's what works what about when it comes to the podcast what keeps people what keeps people coming back to the podcast do you say um variety i think because every week we launch a new podcast on a wednesday eventful lives or founder and obviously ask dodge on a on a friday but each week because it's eventful lives no one knows who i've had on so on the on the six o 'clock in the morning on a Wednesday people are excited to find out who we've had on and that's what I think that variety like they say a variety of the spice of life but I think that's the exciting bit, they may enjoy the conversations, they may enjoy me as a host, they may enjoy the guest as a guest, they enjoy our high production with our wonderful team of creatives who put it all together, you know we have really high standards in our podcasting in fact in anything we do we have really high standards and it's really important because I think people really notice high standards and I'd like to pick up on that now when we talk about standards that we set ourselves and also I want to acknowledge reputation yeah so that thing of somebody coming back to something that you're trying to put on live event an audio video series whatever it is how important is it that reputation that because it must be easier if you've already built that reputation to say I'm mentioned like a glass to be that's easy to come back to but on a smaller level how important is building that reputation that people will trust and come back it's everything no like trust no like trust if you can tick all those three it's everything if you only tick out two of them you're you're missing a huge move there how did you build it with a podcast with this with a podcast though was that just by showing up every week yeah that wasn't related because obviously it's unrelated to a festival.

22:28A podcast is literally just showing up and make sure you're there every single Wednesday, every single Wednesday for the last five and a half years. Come rain or shine, you're there with a new episode. And for the first few years, you don't know whether anyone's listening or not. I didn't want to know that. I didn't want to know the stats. I didn't want to know it because I know it's going to be small, but it's like a hockey curve. It's like a hockey stick. Takes time, takes time, boom. And off it goes because you're building trust. No like trust. people know you do they like you do they trust you you know so so then that and then having real honest conversations and if someone's opposite me and i'm hosting and i know they're not being honest or they're holding something back you've got to you've got to delve deeper and they've got to trust you as a host for them to open up more and when they open up more and you have a better conversation the people your listeners will clock that that's about integrity as well imagine if your isn't it it's like it comes back to the standards i know i've got to push this person here to get them to open up and to be honest with me because i know that i've got listeners because that's what i've come to expect and if i've gone off kilter and i've kind of watered things down then that's not what they're expecting so it does so this is relatable too why do people show up because that's you want to create that reputation that people know what they're going to get yeah because it's easy to copy.

23:48Again, I can't even mention this as well. It's easy to copy what's out there, which is why it's even more harder to do something to say, look, I want you to trust me now. When you step into my space, I'm not going to let you down. Yeah, you've got to own it. You've got to own you. You've got to have the awareness of who you are. Then life becomes easier. You know who you are. That is where most effort goes in. I can see that being a lot of effort goes into that by knowing that you can't step in and say, right we're going to record now and you're half-arsed doing it no you've got to be all in you've got to give i certainly give my all when hosting because i want to get the best out of the guest isn't that interesting but that's the ever interesting side today when you look at that kind of creative space and that's what you're judged on this thing i know it's great look at us now we're doing this we're doing this this is fun and this is great yeah but there's also that side to it that you know you don't want to let people that are listening like i would never want us to do something it's like okay that's great dodge and i've got my piece of a4 in front of me and there's just that it's like i'm just backwards and forwards i've never in i've never had anything no computers no nothing in front of me like i'm looking at the person in the eye the whole time whole time i host it's in the i've got one i don't lose eye contact for the whole time because there's nothing worse imagine you know i see some podcasts big podcasts who have their computer to the side and they're just reading out numbered questions because they just want it for the click no they just want it for the click to go oh yeah i've asked this question i know i can cut that up and you're going to get big views i'm not interested in that i just want proper conversations with real people who've got real stories and they don't have to be famous i could have gone down the whole famous route mark you know that i haven't gone down i've gone down people who aren't known but i've got mad stories it goes back you make it i'm piecing this all together this jigsaw puzzle you're just talking that there about the show and how you deliver it as well as a bit of festival, is that the reason that people come back is how you want them to feel from it, whether you want to educate or whether you want to entertain or whether you want to inform someone.

25:56As long as you're clear from the outset, do you know what I mean, that when someone comes to a festival, you want them to feel a particular way. When they listen to a podcast, like if they're listening to this show now, in some way it'd be nice to see if people were informed or there was something there but we don't know on this show like people listening now it'd be lovely if they left some comments somewhere so we get to know like I'm enjoying this Dodge Marky well done lads keep going or that for us the feedback like everything I've said before like getting feedback is lovely because then we know where we stand you know what even one nice comment or one nice review you're like I'm liking that we must be onto something here because there's a nice comment where someone's actually thought about and written a nice little paragraph or something.

26:42And that as well comes back to coming back, isn't it? That somebody sends in a comment, it's read, or it's this kind of, it's treated, it's done. You're listening to each other. The reason people come back is that people are listened to and they are seen and their input is valued. Everything that we're talking about, it's all about getting the basics right, isn't it? It's all about keeping it simple and getting the basics right. And all about how you make people feel and connection. And with all this AI madness going on, and I've always been about real people, real everything. I'm not changing.

27:21I am not changing. I'm going to keep this because I lay you money, a massive U-turn. People have had enough of AI, enough of social media, enough of fake videos, enough of fake avatars. I'm keeping it real. And the dodge bot is coming out. for Christmas Christmas $12.99 Dodgebot when we so somebody somebody is when somebody somebody is listening or you're listening and you have an event you want to get up and running if someone's getting up and running what's your advice to someone to ensure that whatever somebody is putting on doesn't run out of steam what would be your advice make sure you do something you absolutely love make sure you're talking about something you love make sure you put an event that you genuinely love that you want to go to that event if you were if you weren't putting it on it's the same as the festival former sevens i want to put a sport and music festival on no one's ever done before 18 19 years ago i would want to come to this what would i want to see when with all my mates if i come to this festival this is what i want to see and it's really important as well to capture what people are saying as well isn't it to that to as it builds how important is that whether it's a testimonial a little video clip of somebody saying like with your videos after the festival of you want to capture that moment because then you want the next crowd to come along to say like this this is what it's like the more that we can get people sharing what it was like for them and how we're getting other people to do the marketing for us that's the thing it's a double-edged sword really Marky because I don't want to see kids in or people in clubs and festivals just filming the DJ or the acts going on And the DJ's dancing.

29:05And these are just there with the cameras. That makes me cringe when I see that. And I would love to say, right, Bourbon 7s, no mobile phones, no filming. But you can't because as a promoter, they're doing your marketing for you. Do you know what I mean? And nightclubs in Ibiza or Pascha or Universal, one's in London. The people going are doing the marketing for you because it's going viral of people holding up their cameras and filming, whether they're at a concert or the Oasis or whatever. But small businesses, we can do that too, that thing of, isn't it? That little sound bite from someone before they've all left.

29:39But I like, you know what I like doing? I like going to places, and I do it a lot. I like to go to places, and if I have a good meal, a good experience, or the waiters, the waitress, the chef, let them know. Thank you, mate. I've had a brilliant experience. You've been absolutely brilliant. How polite are you? Where do you learn that from? Get to know them, and make sure you give credit to the chef. Do me a favour. Can you tell the chef that steak was amazing? That fish that he cooked was unbelievable. Because imagine being a chef. No one sees who you are. You're at the back sweating under serious amounts of stress and no one would ever come to you and say thank you.

30:13All you'll wait for is a complaint. Yeah. Like, it's important to... I just want to name drop Pickleberry again. Yeah, Pickleberry, good. Lamb, what did you have? I had a whole sea bass. Oh, that sounds nice. And my wife had a beef wellington. and my old man had a I took my old man as well he had a dress crab is it a freshly dressed crab? Beautiful. Yeah like it's right next to the sea obviously yeah I don't know I've got to find a way to conclude this now that's nice they're talking about your dinner Dutch I love my dinner Marky so Dutch and myself wanted to talk about what it takes for people to return and that's what we're talking about is it takes a lot of effort but we need people to be seen we want to put the reassuring arm around someone as you said before at the start people need to feel safe they need to feel assured they need to feel know that they can come back and they will feel welcome every time that's the case they can tell their friends they're similar with a podcast as long as you know that how you apply yourself is you're doing it the best version that you can step up because there's people out there or there's easy people just to drift off in it when we just sound the same as everybody else.

31:27Or if you have a pessimistic mind, it's easy to go and moan about a restaurant or moan about something. Try bigging up a restaurant. Go and write a review. Go and do a tag someone in that restaurant. Go and add a blinding. It doesn't matter if you've got a small following. You might have five people go, oh, they've tagged that. Oh, right, okay. They're saying it's good. I'll pass that to my friends. You know, what's happening at the moment where we are is this restaurant's closing down, this bar's closing down, this cafe's closing down, this pub's closing down, this nightclub's closing down, this bingo hall's closing down.

31:54everything's closing down and it's sad and it pains me to think these independent restaurateurs and publicans and all that who have put everything on the line and now been squeezed by the biggest amount of taxes on every business in the world is the UK we're not giving these people a chance and I want every entrepreneur in the country and business owners to do well so if you've got an opportunity to big someone up let them know those independent cafes and restaurants are struggling let them know that you'll support them tag them in something be nice it doesn't take a lot and when dodging myself does the live show from the pickled berry i hope you'll be there in the window waving outside to dodge and myself with headphones on right so if you'd like to ask dodging myself a question that is related to this show or any other show that you've listened to make sure you send us an email.

32:49Send it to askdodge at dodgewoodle.com Dodge, I enjoyed that! I enjoyed it. I'm enjoying all of them, mate. I'm really enjoying this journey. We don't know where it's going. Hopefully people are enjoying it and yeah, see where it takes us, mate. Well done. What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance? What if an insight in data could change everything? At Aramco, Our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. Because margins aren't marginal. They're where we can truly push the limits of what's possible. Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company.

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