FOUNDER #45: Dodge Woodall on Bloomberg TV Talking About his ADHD - Dodge Woodall

0:00Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. Have you ever considered how the smallest details can create real emotion? Lexus does. At Lexus, master craftsmen called Takumi are involved not just in physical craftsmanship, but in sensory details. Things like how a door closes, the click of a switch, the acoustic feedback of controls. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating.

0:41You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

1:20You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hey everyone, it's Adam, host of Ted's podcast, Rethinking with Adam Grant. And this episode is powered by AT &T Business. When you're building a business, momentum is everything.

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2:27Thrived off school. Well, I was only good money. I was earning a lot of money from this. It's not the right answer. You won't have this conversation with anyone else. No, but I was saying I was earning good money. So I was addicted to school because I was getting the dopamine hit playing sport and thriving at sport. So how did you get into Loflopo? I paid all the rich kids to do all my coursework. But I had to stay at uni because of the money I was earning. I was doing three grand a week at uni. The festival, Warmer 7s, you had to cancel. It had become illegal. You weren't illegally allowed to put on a festival.

2:55I mean, you've sold 30 ,000 tickets two months before your festival and then been told you can't put it on. I like the risk. I like the sleepless nights. I like everything about it. I like opening doors. I like introducing people. But you really have to treat it as an extreme sport because you can't just walk into entrepreneurship. And they went, are you an addict? I was like, no, definitely not. And then this woman grabbed the mic and went, can I speak? She went, I think you're a risk addict. I was like, yeah, I think you might be right. Addiction and risk, I've never heard of that before. You are the Artful Dodger who's been incredibly successful and I want to try and find out what the secret sauce is.

3:28because that secret sauce contains ADHD without a shadow of a doubt. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure, John. Do you know why you're here? About ADHD. Recently diagnosed? Yes. When did you first have someone say to you, you might have ADHD?

3:51A good friend of mine, Lewis Moody, who is the ex-England captain World Cup winner, he said to me about a year ago he said mate you're on the spectrum i was like shut up mate what do you mean on the spectrum because when you grow up as a kid you think spectrum da da da da da i made a laugh about it and then you said to me when uh i think you've got adhd i was like okay and you're like do you want to come up and do this course or was it a course or have a chat for a couple of hours or whatever it was to have a conversation and then had a conversation with this lovely lady for a couple of hours and she just at the end of it was like you're 100 % ADHD 110 % was it yeah yeah yeah so how does it feel has it made any sense of anything no it feels absolutely exactly the same as it has done for the last god knows how many decades exactly the same so many people we speak to have used terms like unemployable misunderstood you've never had a job never which makes this a really interesting conversation so that entrepreneurial streak that whole taking kind of control of your own destiny, taking risks, it's always been a constant with you.

4:57Yeah, since the age of 10. Constant risk-taking, risk-taking in business, and that's just been the way it is. I loved every minute of it. Someone said to me, I was speaking on stage the other day, and someone said, oh, talking about addiction. And they went, are you an addict? I was like, no, definitely not. I'm cool. And then this woman grabbed the mic and went, can I speak? And she spoke and went, can I just say something? And I was like, yeah, go for it. she went i think you're a risk addict i was like yeah i think you might be right so there was some yeah addiction and risk i've never heard of that before if you look at addiction wise but well if you look at what you have done from such young age if i'm right taking kind of broken toys or damaged boxes out of a skip at the back of your dad's pub that were then things you could fix up and sell on for a few quid that cost you nothing to then being a promoter for the club next door and getting yourself a quid or two as a young lad to then becoming a huge kind of promoter in that space as an older version of yourself, that has led to you having all sorts of trial and error, things that haven't worked and so on.

6:01So that risk-taking element, that barometer, it's all you know, isn't it? It's all I know. It's all I know, yeah. There's no such thing as failure in my vocabulary. There's no fear in the vocabulary. There's no fear of anything. There's no fear of failing. It's always just tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. you only fail when you have to give up on something and then say i've given that a go hasn't worked out and then that's how i see failure but yeah let's let's yeah i i've met you twice and i've spoken to you on the phone yeah and you make me laugh every time thank you you do you make me giggle every time it's impossible not to laugh you're absolutely brilliant to meet me everyone calls you dodge real name is roger the dodger okay and that's Dad's name is Roger as well.

6:49So you were always the Dodger? As soon as I was born, I was always Dodger. And that's who I am today. And Dodger, Dodge. Yep. So we've got this... Why are you smiling? Because he just makes me smile. Yeah, he does. And you've got... Without any shadow of a doubt, you're an incredibly successful man. You've never been employed. You've been the artful Dodger. You are the personified artful Dodger, not Roger the Dodger out of the cartoon. you're an international man of mystery, and yet there's no mystery about you. And I mean that in the most affectionate term. You've never had a job. You've been an entrepreneur.

7:29And when we think about entrepreneurs, we think serious, we think suits, we think whatever, or we think whatever we think about them. But you are, I've watched you over the times we've been with you, and John said to you at the start of this, do you know when the other TV programme goes out and you go your ability to process data is almost nil unless you're clearly motivated about it and then you don't forget a thing, is that fair? 100 % and I sit and watch you and I just think that is so ADHD so relatable to what we're talking about and you sit here a very successful man an extremely, what I'm trying to get to is you're the most unique person with ADHD I've ever met and I want to get that uniqueness to come out in this television.

8:21That's quite a statement though. Tens of thousands of people. Absolutely. But we talk to other people and I want to bring this out. This is what I think we need to bring out here. We talk to people who've had their hardships, their shame, their whatever, their whatever, whatever. And that's right. We bring out that story. You are the artful dodger who's been incredibly successful and I want to try and find out what the secret sauce is because that secret sauce contains ADHD without a shadow of a doubt. You're very ADHD. You flirt with everything you mean, don't you? In a good way. Do you know what I mean?

8:55You attract people. You'll take a risk. You'll take a gamble in the conversation. We couldn't have a sandwich without having a laugh and a giggle. And I just find that totally and utterly attractive and that's probably where your success is. but how have you found life then? Because in so much as people can relate to you even if they don't know you. Why? How? How does that happen? Maybe it's been growing up above, living above pubs in London as a kid, you know, and when you're growing up above a pub and you've got a thousand people in a feeder pub and you've got a nightclub next door and there's just a wall here of my bedroom to the nightclub, everyone was wheeling and dealing and I was just around adults the whole time.

9:36There was toxicity in there, There was craziness going on there. People were earning money. The doormen were there. I just learned at a very young age to be good with people. And my mum and dad are really, you know, my dad's from East End of London, a really good bloke. My mum's from Manchester, both entrepreneurial, both good people, not educated, but graft. They put in a shift. They're good with people and they have fun. Everything they do is about fun and bringing happiness. but in a world that could have been quite a murky world as well being in pubs and clubs and what have you um I just love people and when you were living in a pub there was no boundaries for me there was no get to bed at 7 p.m I was up till 11 12 I had a nightclub next door every Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturdays literally a wall and we could hear was come on Eileen and everyone's singing and that was life and I was just I was out earning money I was seeing the opportunities and I was just, I fully embraced it.

10:39Would I want my kid to be brought up in a pub? No. I wouldn't change a single thing because you learn your trade as a young kid. People are learning entrepreneurship in their 30s and their 40s. I was at it at 10. Talk to us about that. You've mentioned the skips and what have you. Talk to us about the artful dodgy, the wheeler dealer, because you just went into that, didn't you? Yeah. You are your parents. whether you like it or not you are your parents and I am my parents and and it was all about my old man dad at the time in the 80s was a bodybuilder so he used to have the big gold tractive bottoms on you know the the big well the big and it always had a grand on him everywhere he went it was a grand cash everywhere so as a young kid he was teaching me how quickly to count cash so I'd put a grand down he put a grand down we go ready steady go so he had the quickest hands you know as all these little things were going on I was selling tickets to the nightclub next door at the age of 10 11 12 13 14 because dad's pub was a feeder pub so when you've got a feeder pub back in the day people go at 7 p.m and go to 11 o 'clock and at 11 o 'clock they go to the night club next door so i go to the manager of the club next door at the age of 10 buy 20 tickets off him for a quid i'd sell him for two quid and the people who bought tickets off for me would get q jump so i was taught at a very young age to create win-win situations in everything you do in business all that's done is that pounder pounder man as a young 10 year old and now we're around now it goes up to a grand amount or four grand amount whatever it is whatever businesses out of the three i've got at the moment you learn the principles you learn the principles you learn the principles to look someone in the eye and do a deal and shake their hands you read a room as you walk in a room like my peripheral vision i know i know what's going on everywhere amazing awareness and yeah and intuition as well because you must have you must have been done over a few times just to learn try to be done over yeah yeah fair play really interested in the education piece because it feels like your education was real time parents or the adults around you and going back to what's almost baffling you with that kind of adhd part it feels like this is such a clear example of the environment that you were able to then thrive in that a lot of people only find as adults what was school like for you how did you do i love school i had so much fun every day more confusing i didn't expect that i love school i thought you'd thrive outside of school i I love school.

12:59I love being outside of school. I lived two lives. I got sent... I was very lucky that my mum and dad earned enough cash to send me to a private school from the age of eight to 18. And I can't thank them enough because the contacts I met there and the amount of money I earned off all the rich kids. It was phenomenal. So it wasn't about algebra? I didn't understand algebra. I didn't understand Latin. I didn't... That's what I was asking. I didn't understand all of this stuff. I knew that I was good at maths, good at English, and I was really good at sport and I knew that there's 400 kids at that school.

13:31My mum taught me at a young age, pound a man. And that stuck me in for life. So when I was at the school with 400 kids, pound a man earning money. Next school, 600 kids, pound a man earning money. Then I went to Loughborough Sports University. There was 12 ,000 people on campus. And that's when it was a game changer. This is golden. You went to an industrial strength of entrepreneur at college. What do you mean by that? You went big scale at college. You'd done 400, you'd done 600. and then got 12 ,000 and you went for it and what's he doing right until he's doing now with almost seven 12 ,000 I remember going there and thinking 12 ,000 people on campus how do they get a pound a man but you remember that's 18 that's nine years from being taught that as a 10 year old pound a man so we'd outside on bank holiday outside the pub there's three ways I earn money in the pub outside the pub bank holiday weekends I'd go to the cash and carry and we'd get loads of ice creams and loads of hot dogs and set up a stall outside because it's on the River Thames so the walk by trade was tons but I paid so much attention to detail and the marketing, the way I'd held the boards up, the way it was written, so people could see and understand what they could buy.

14:31And if it was tonking with rain, if it was bad weather, people would buy hot dogs, and if it was amazing weather every bank holiday, people would buy ice creams. And I'd come at 600 quid net profit, net profit, not turnover, net profit as a 10-year-old, 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, every bank holiday. And on the back of the pub, there was a Toys R Us at the back, and they had these massive skips, and I'd go skip-dive, and my bank crest would get my ankles, and I'd go in and get these massive toys out that might have been chipped a little bit I'd set up a stand at the back because all the walk-by trade would go all the parents mum and dad and they'd have a bum bag and I'd be selling all these toys so that's the back of the pub and in the pub is when I'd do the tickets for the nightclub next door so I was constantly earning money and it doesn't sound a lot as a 10 year old 20 quid to earn just selling tickets for half an hour I'm talking the 80s and 90s and earning 600 quid which was mega and the stuff we didn't sell took back to cash and carry and gave it back to them so the model was amazing so I was learning how to be with people how I could scale businesses I learned how I could market and promote but I didn't understand this at the time it just was ingrained into you and as the years went on the money got bigger and when you hit 17 and you had a car and you could sell loads of stuff out the back of your car that was like my shop window the shop I'd go to the Blackbush market and get a load of uh Timberland jumpers and and Ralph Lauren jumpers and out the back of your car allowed me to go to where all the wealthy kids were in the back of your car and selling for buying for tennis and selling for 30s the money jumped massively at the age of 17 then you got into loughborough sports university and then the money just went a whole new level so i got into the nightclub world can i interject with this this is golden when i asked you about the school i was genuinely asking how did you find your math lessons on and you skipped through that and went straight to that entrepreneur part you talk i know you talk a lot about the risk taking and the uh probably what's the dopamine hit i love dopamine what dopamine endorphin are my two chemicals i love every day i have to have every day as much as i can yeah and that which is a key key part of the whole adhd conversation you you understood that before you understood almost like the whole sort of relevance if you like to adhd but that can get you into trouble that can get anyone into trouble that could be addictive tendencies that the wrong crowd which you just clearly swayed um and avoided if you like through school and through life but you know that can go into drugs and you're just stealing all the wrong things and get into trouble the law um but it can also get into trouble where you make decisions based on the gut feeling and so on, and then they could be the wrong ones.

16:53What's your experience with things that have gone wrong, where you've tried something and it hasn't worked?

17:02This is Liv Perez from Let's Get Dressed, and one thing fashion has taught me is that the smallest details are often what makes something feel truly special. The weight of a fabric, the click of a clasp, or the way a beautifully tailored piece moves. Lexus approaches craftsmanship the exact same way. Their master craftsman, called Takumi, evaluate sensory details like the sound of a door closing, the click of a switch, and the acoustic feedback of the controls. They use human perception and intuition to create what feels right, and that's engineering to be felt. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing.

17:36Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer.

17:43Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

18:20You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

19:05In business? Yeah. like i said before the only way the only the only see failure is if you have to close a business down and hand it back or close it down you've lost a lot of money i built five businesses over 30 years the first one the student nights for 10 years when i had 12 nightclubs every week and i'll take all the door money that worked unbelievably well there was nothing to sell at the end of it then i got into creating a festival and we're now 19 years still independently owned for 30 000 people 100 djs 12 festival arenas celebrities tv crews so that's still going the sportswear brand that we created in 2010 we built that over eight years and we sold that company then we got into the pandemic and we created two new companies and one of them we just sold yesterday so this so congrats thank you thank you that's a big one for us it was um yeah so there's nothing there that i can say there's any failures in there all I can say there was a big pivot all I can say all I do is tweak I don't see it as a failure if something's not working tweak, tweak change that get rid of that person move that person move it constantly moving it around and when you're obsessed with something like totally obsessed to be successful in business I truly believe you have to be obsessed and you have to love what you do and I've got both of them luckily enough I've created businesses that I love putting smiles on people's faces that's why I've earned all my money for three decades or more decades putting smiles on people's faces and bringing a lot of happiness and it's just carrying on at just a larger level but i can't i i don't know if we sound like oh there's no failures there's lots of things you get wrong in building business that's part of the fun of building a business i love the chaos well this is what my question was loaded because actually you just literally see anything that other people might see as a wall as an obstacle and get around it and i think the best example of that is in covid the festival boomer sevens you had to you had to cancel it become illegal you weren't illegally able to put on a festival i mean you've sold 30 000 tickets two months before your festival and then been told you can't put it on yeah there's a serious amount of money involved in this i was like right i need to think of it's a massive event right so what did you do but but just on that we're from the same town we used to live roads apart from each other so now people i know that know dodge that knew him as very well connected successful but born with sevens many people watching and listening to this now will know him as 100 million plus views on the Ventful Lives podcast that he started in lockdown as the pivot right and then got back to what makes a smile the relatability which brings it all back to ADHD just being himself just asking questions that a journalist might not have asked asking questions that he's naturally interested in to people that he was interested in and that's blown up for you it's gone crazy again I didn't know what I was doing I just had to think of something so I need a business that's pandemic proof and online my businesses have always been uh physical business where you're you're generating hundreds of thousands of people in fact we sold over a million tickets to our own events not not backed by the bank not backed by vc money not by private just everything we earned from that 10 year old boy just building and building and building yeah it's been a it's been a it's been some journey but the the pivot was key in the pandemic that was key because i was researching for probably five months what can i do what business can i do I didn't know what business to do when we created an online education.

22:21But I didn't like lessons at school. I loved school, but I didn't like lessons. And I hated exams. I was rubbish. I was like a C and a D student. But I created this business that has no exams, that is accessible and it's quick, that you can do it in three months and we can get you a job within the events industry. We brought 40 of the world's leading industry experts in from Glastonbury Festival to the Olympics to London Fashion Week to Chelsea Football Club. all these people pre-recorded and we built that business up scaled the business and now we sold it so we've got the media business now and the festival so we sold two we're still running two and uh i just love it i love the game it's a game and you know what anyone out there i just come for another podcast and they say oh what do you love about i said i love everything about it i like the risk i like the sleepless nights i like look i like i like everything about it i I like opening doors.

23:13I like introducing people. I like using all my contacts over the years. But you have to, you really have to treat it as an extreme sport because you can't just walk into entrepreneurship. People see it in 2020 when everyone was having the whole summer off and going, oh, I'm creating a business because my work's paying me. I want to create this business. I'm seeing lots of those people folding over the last one year, 18 months, and are now going, I need to go back and go to a nine to five job because it's not for the faint hearted. You know, you're there having to do the marketing and the sales.

23:42the operations, building the culture, offices, paying the bills, doing the social media. You're doing everything until you get to a position where you can start growing your members of staff. And people think due to social media, there's got its pros and cons, is that social media is telling everyone that you can earn a million pound a year or 500 ,000 pound a year. It just doesn't happen as quick as that. It doesn't. And, you know, I say to a lot of people or mentors, if you can get to 100 grand, you're doing unbelievably well. unbelievably well you know 90 % of business at the moment aren't making any money and I'm just seeing the unemployment rate do that and I'm seeing businesses do that but the government won't talk about it two things to pick up one is you tried to get into the school bit and we went straight to entrepreneurship I love what he answered it was brilliant to watch but he has said hated exams that's what you were looking for to discuss so pick it up The hook's been fed off now.

24:42You hated lessons. You loved school because it gave you... I loved lessons because I know I can make everyone laugh and be disruptive. Right. That's what I loved. The art of a dodging. I knew that I'm going to have a good laugh in this lesson because I know that teacher's a bit weak or there's something we're going to have a laugh about or there's something going on in the lesson to have a laugh. But I was also very disruptive. Were you ever... In a nice way, in a horrible way. Well, everything you do is in a nice way. Yeah. And I think that's what your mum and dad gave you, isn't it? no matter what you do you do it in a nice way a win-win as you said your mum told you so in in nearly everybody else i've had this conversation with who's as adhd as you are they'll have been pushed out of school expelled from school got into a lot of trouble and and and the system would have rejected them out of hand yeah somehow it didn't reject you because i don't know why i can suspect sport right we were good i was good i was good at sport so it's worth keeping you in yeah but i had a couple of suspensions thrown in the mix yeah yeah but nothing major that's a notion of a moment yeah a couple of weeks here but the annoying thing they gave they did when they suspended me because i celebrated i was like yeah i'm gonna be with my dad because he come and pick me up and i was just excited to have a couple of weeks but then they stopped me playing sport they stopped me playing in the national school sevens because it was time they stopped me in another and that's what really hurt right so okay So I enjoyed lessons because it could be the clown.

26:09I could be disruptive. You had your punishment. That hurt. And did that change anything for you? That's not the right answer. So how did you stop that happening? How did you stop the suspension? Don't get caught. Okay, fair enough. You got more artful, did you? I just had such fun at school, I can't tell you. Well, it sounds it. and and so you survived school but you didn't survive school did you you thrived off school well i was only good money yeah i was earning a lot of money from the right answer you won't have this conversation with anyone else no but i'm saying i was only i was good good money so i was addicted to school because i was getting the dopamine hit playing sport and thriving at sport lessons i wasn't good at apart from sport and maths and then i just knew that the subjects they were teaching latin and pythagoras theory and all this other stuff bunsenberg it wasn't worth it wasn't worth my time because I just knew it wasn't.

27:04It was filling in the gaps to make money. School was making money for you. It was a breeding ground for you. I did really well at school for the whole of those 10 years. You're totally stumped, aren't you? I can say it's brilliant. I'm working so hard in this interview, it's untrue. I really am. You're amazing. I just can't get over this. Did you do well at school? Yes, I did really well at school. The answer's meant to be, and I got eight old levels, and I went on to get A-levels, your answer is I earned a fortune. Yeah. I didn't do A-levels either. And created an opportunity. I didn't do A-levels either.

27:36Did you leave school then? No, I didn't do A-levels, but I got into Loughborough Sports Uni for leadership and sport through the back door. And you had to have an A, A, B in A-levels, and I didn't do A-levels. I found it very hard to read, learn, and regurgitate. Right. I just couldn't do it. so how did you get into i paid all the rich kids at uni to do all my coursework all my coursework so they were they would get me 85 i'll get through the exam at 20 odd percent and i'll get a pass but i had to stay at uni because the money i was earning i was doing three grand a week at uni three grand a week because i had the nightclubs so i was doing three grand cash a week i said this is unbelievable i don't need to be i didn't go to when i went and got my degree it was funny right because i went and got my degree we got in at four o 'clock in the morning before me and my pal jill before we went to go on stage and loughborough uni is obviously a big sports uni i didn't have a tie didn't have a jacket my dad and mum come up my dad lent me the tie the jacket and i think he lent me something else because my son is woodall when i went on stage there was a thousand people and they knew exactly what i was doing the nightclubs and learning the money i had a nightclub in london and nightclub in loughborough it was this massive raucous roar when I went on stage because they know I end up getting a degree which I shouldn't have got shouldn't have got a degree but your story's phenomenal who's going to play you in the movie of your life who's going to be up to being that character he's got to be Dodged himself look at him God knows God knows but I just because I don't know any other way that's what's coming across that's what's so refreshing and we're laughing we're laughing with you because it's like actually so many people have got quite a convoluted journey to them finding them themselves you just you've never let go of yourself yeah you embraced it early you had fair play to your parents real encouragement and my parents gave me the most amount of self-belief any kid could ever want but there's no arrogance that's really important there's no arrogance there uh that i that i can see there's there's no need for it i know you well and that that that sort of self-belief without ego and arrogance like um I've sort of pivoted in recent times and Dodge has been looking over my shoulder, giving me that advice, sending me messages.

29:52I know he does that to lots of people because he cares. And I think you get a huge amount of messages, including I saw one pop up on your Instagram this morning where someone's called their kid, Dodge. That would have run deep. Because you're affecting people's lives on a big scale now because you have an audience. But actually at the heart of it, it's all heartfelt. Our chat over there for lunch before, it's exactly the same. I don't know any different. I've not been taught anything to go, oh, I should try it that way. Every business that I've started, give it a go. Your parents as a young kid, everything I'd wanted to do as a kid, I want to give it a go.

30:27Go on, give it a go. So if you've got kids. Yeah, so an 11-year-old, he's lovely, he's really well-mannered and he's got a great little business mind on him. Funny that. Yeah. No, but he's really well-mannered and he's a beautiful soul on him. So are you allowing the wrong word? Are you enabling him to be dodged too? Yeah, 100%. How much money is he making at school? He's earning all right. He's earning, but he's thinking about it. It's about the mind. No one talks about the mind. This is the most powerful muscle we have. And what I've noticed over the years is when doing the 300 odd interviews or friends of mine, people haven't gone back and sorted out.

31:04What happened as a kid? Your belief system as a kid, you're around a dinner table and your parents might go, can't afford that, we haven't got the money. Can't do that. So your belief system is, oh, I'm not good with money or I can't afford it. I know people are building businesses and scaling at the moment, but they're not scaling it well enough to get the right outcome at the end because they've still got the belief system as a kid that they're not good enough or money's not linked to them. It's just a lot of things that need clearing up. I don't think you understand your own secret sauce enough because if you did, that would be your next entrepreneurial gift because you've not gone against the system.

31:44you've just never accepted the system. That's well put. You've not butted heads with it. No. You've milked it for everything it's worth. No, wait, if I need to say that, now you've got my mind spinning now. My old man, my mum and dad always told me break the rules, but never break the law. Right. And all I've ever done is cheekily broke the rules in everything that I've done. because I don't see if there's a rule book there. I just won't read it. I won't do anything. I'll just do and bring people along the journey with you. That's almost like the rules of norms as opposed to the rules of state, the law.

32:27A kid of 10 is not meant to be an entrepreneur. Well, I want to be one. But we didn't know what entrepreneur was back then. No. All I saw was, how come everyone around me is earning money? How come I live in a two-bed flat above a pub with two Alsatians, a Doberman, four budgie regards, a cockatoo, and a monkey.

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34:53A film needs to be made, mate. That's what I grew up with. So, to try and get... They were all pets. Right, let's try and get to an outcome that we can see as a tangible learning point for other people here. Because there's so much... Great pet monkey, by the way. Mitzi, his name was. The environment is crucial here. Absolutely. That's what I'm thriving off. The coat, what your parents gave you, they enabled you they gave you the mindset to do not the mindset to to pause and think and that's that's that's a strength you've clearly got that but what you've got is that personality that beautiful adorable lovable cheeky chappy personality Robbie Williams played in his film by a monkey because he couldn't think he was going to play him in the film we're in the same scenario here aren't we and what would be what's your strongest piece of advice that you give to your lad on a regular basis be curious that's the word that's i mean being curious every single day before you go to school i'll say to him be curious mate ask lots of questions is he a minimum is he more you or is he more 50 i've got a beautiful wife 50 50 my wife's amazing by the way i can't just she's on she's unreal we're so opposite she's from Wales she's all countryside and animals and insects and she's married a promoter from London but we just get on so well like 22 years so well so well she's unreal but she's the financial director behind the company so she protects the money and I have to bring it in so it works really well and probably manages a lot of your your sort of energy if you like and perhaps in some ways is a boundary if you like or a reference point when you might be going she's a sounding board but she doesn't want to know my business She doesn't want to know too much detail.

36:42She just wants to live a nice husband and wife and family. She doesn't want to know what I did today. So do you know what I love? The curious was what I was, I was literally wanted to say. I've never met anyone that asks more questions. Every time we connect, and I'll be sitting next to each other at an entrepreneur's dinner, and you were just asking so many questions to me, to that person, to that person. And yet this is someone that didn't enjoy school. Wasn't, so if you think the disconnect there. You didn't enjoy school. Sorry. I loved school. Sorry. Learning at school in lessons. Because I could learn.

37:10Which is why you're supposed to go to school. Yeah, but why don't I learn something? You cannot get his head around the fact that school is... Why don't I learn something? To regurgitate it. I just couldn't get my head around that. I am not seeing any fault in anything you said at all. When you lock in on something that you're interested in, you cannot stop asking questions. I'm all in. Why are you doing that? I'm all in. You've done it to me before. You almost say you want to take the shirt off me. What's the point? Where are you going? I can see you're so visible with it. And that's what... So what we've got here, it is truly complex for me to try and put into a closing statement you've got the very definition of a cheeky chappy totally and utterly a people person aren't you absolutely a person everyone always curious don't accept the rule that's going to be a handbraker you haven't got a handbraker no and for the person with adhd that's watching this who's following this if you go all the way back perhaps people aren't given enough courage to be they're not told the rule book will not work for you so create your own and create your own within the boundaries of the law and what's acceptable but take it to those boundaries do it with a smile do it where there's no losers win win your mum told you win win so no losers no victims but don't be a victim yourself and don't make a victim among other people yeah and your mum's not used those words but i would put in there and because you're wired differently, use that wiring to be a success.

38:37The win-win. Challenge the rules but not break the law. Make your own rules to suit you so you can be successful. You are the very definition of doing it differently and being incredibly successful. With a big smile on your face. With a big smile on your face. And putting a lot of smiles in other people's faces as well. That's what I love doing. I've got to take my hat off to you. I've never met anybody like you. I've never interviewed anybody like you. We never will. We won't. And I think it'll only be a 3G, or whatever they call it, a false monkey that could ever play you in a film of your life because I don't think there's a human that will equal you.

39:09And this has been the most amazing, challenging, rewarding interview I think we've ever done. Did you enjoy school? I loved school was not the answer you were looking for. And it wasn't because I learned Latin. It was because I made a fortune. And on that, as a finishing note, I think you're an amazing man. I do appreciate that. I just want to go back to the point you made earlier, saying, what's your next thing? You said, oh, what's your next thing? And then you sold that. I'm in the middle of writing a book called Straight Talking Founder, and I'm launching a podcast called Straight Talking Founder because people keep saying to me, why don't you just get it out there?

39:45Yeah. Because everyone I meet, we have this lovely vibe. I've been around lucky people. Hopefully people enjoy being around me because I feel a lucky person. But just being that straight talking founder and just going, and helping people. That's the next chapter for me. But what most people don't do when they're straight talking is make it a win-win, make everybody happy. There's a selfish... There's a selflessness in you, whereas some people have a selfishness about being straight talking. There's no victim in your life behind you. There's no victim left behind. There's nobody hurt by you being straight talking.

40:22There's people adoring you for being straight talking and admiring that honesty. that's your secret sauce that you can do that in the way that you do it and i want to read your book yeah and you know what name is i am so excited by this next chapter i'm so excited to have a podcast where you can just be interviewed and speak and then hopefully thousands or millions wherever however it grows is going to learn from it going god there is actually another way we don't have to do it like the rule book has said we can actually do it like this and learn some bits and pieces of him if i can bring more people together and put smiles on people's faces i know that i'm done that's what i've done all my life and this next chapter is the next bit that i think i'm gonna get the most reward from i'm excited for you yeah you're just i mean i just want to follow that i've enjoyed i've been so looking forward to this and and you've still surprised me amount of conversations but i'm learning from you all the time and i'm thank you for making time to come and talk about it my pleasure i've enjoyed it yeah i don't know I was coming to, but it's good.

41:22You're all snotes. Quality. Good stuff. Cheers, Will. Good man.

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