Something & Nothing

0:00Olly Dixon:Welcome to the Emerging Brands podcast. Sharing the stories behind brands you'll want to shop next. I'm your host, Kelly Bennett. I am a New York City-based brand strategist for CPG Food and Beverage Brands. In each episode, I'll take you behind the scenes of founders that are building better-for-you products and bringing them to market. Also, I talk to brand builders, retailers, industry experts, and tastemakers who help bring those cool products to your shopping cart. You will hear stories of real-life founders, their launch strategies, and practical advice you could use to grow your own brand or simply discover what's next on shelf.

0:42Olly Dixon:And the best part is you could shop all the brands featured on the show. This podcast is brought to you by Glimpse. Glimpse is an AI-powered deduction management tool that disputes and recovers invalid deductions, winning brands thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours back to founders so that they can focus on what really matters most. If you're a brand selling in retail, go to tryglimpse.com backslash trial for 30 days free and let them know I sent you. Now, let's dive into the new episode. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to a new episode of Emerging Brands Podcast with Kelly Bennett. Today, I have Ollie Dixon.

1:28Olly Dixon:He is the founder of Something and Nothing. And I was sharing with Ollie before we hit record that his products are in the rotation at my house. It's a really great option when you want something with great flavor, a bit of bubble, and it really has some creative flavors that I don't see on the market with many other brands. So, Ollie, I'm really excited to have you on the show today and talk shop about what you're building. Thanks for having me and thanks for the kind words about the soda. My pleasure. So, walk me through what white spaces you see in the soda category in the better for you and what you wanted to do differently?

2:17Olly Dixon:The things that were catching your eye that you were like, huh, there's something here that I would love to jump in on. Well, I kind of came at this in a very, probably in quite a different way to a lot of CPG startups where, yeah, often people have worked in the industry, they think they can do it better or they see this opportunity. This was very much a sort of personal project. I used to have a branding agency in London. So I kind of was interested in that space, interested in communication and wanted to create my own brand, but I didn't really know what industry it would be in. And then at a similar time, I had a kind of midlife crisis, I guess, and started a bar with some friends in oh wow called the gun it was a great little bar DJs cocktails very people used to call it the vortex you kind of arrive at 7 p.m and get spat out at 7 a.m it was quite boozy and after about eight months of heavy drinking I was like god I really need to kind of stop uh yeah take a bit of a break and that's sort of when I looked at the soft drink space because I got sick of drinking sparkling water and realized really nothing had changed for decades or kind of still a very nostalgic space loads of sugar loads of sweeteners loads of weird ingredients and it was a simple kind of thought of like why isn't there a grown-up soft drink we all spend a lot of time buying interesting ingredients to create food why why can't that happen with with drinks and at that stage my aspiration was pretty small having come from a branding background I put a lot of time and effort into creating a brand but right the kind of business element I hadn't thought through like the US was like not something I'd even consider at that stage and now it's like 65 % of our business so it was very much um yeah kind of personal project to create a drink that I would like and my friends would like.

4:30Olly Dixon:I didn't even realize the background in hospitality and in the alcohol space, but I could totally see that even in the flavor profiles that you use. I mean, they could also, I use them also as bases for cocktails, so I could totally see that through line. So when did you start percolating on this idea? And I'm sure it started with many mood boards and you said having a branding agency. What did that look like as far as starting to take those initial steps to conceptualizing the product and brand? yeah I get that those are the kind of two key elements right is the product and the brand and from the brand brand point of view I work with some designers I've worked with for quite a few years and we just started like my kind of approach with branding is always don't look in the category that you're gonna be selling in because you'll end up looking like everybody else yes so we looked at beauty we looked at art we looked at fashion uh and I guess the kind of wellness thing that was happening but we definitely didn't look at soft drinks and it was important for me to create something that was more emotive than than than literal and actually the first ever trade show we did a guy from like the soft drinks industry in the UK came up to me and said what are you doing he's like your name's weird you've made a cucumber drink but you haven't put a picture of cucumbers on the front like nobody's gonna buy this um yeah maybe he was right but the difference is really what's helped us stand out and you know we came into the US by a relatively you know unusual route and didn't have a team didn't invest any money and the guy who sort of imported us yeah after six months was saying oh you're the best selling new product in in Erewhon and we were like what's Erewhon I've never heard of it and he's like oh it's a pretty cool store so we know quite a lot about about that store but yeah that that year we were the best like new product across all ranges not not just drinks um we're not the best selling drink in know, hasten to add, we're about the third or fourth, but, um, it, you know, that, um, approach to creating a brand that looked really different and then coupled with, um, creating a product that, yeah, isn't based on nostalgia is flavors and combinations of flavors that perhaps a bit different to what else is out there, but really appeals to somebody who cares about ingredients cares about flavor interested in food um yeah that's worked really well for us as well so you kind of got that double thing of an interesting looking product you pick it up see it's healthier lower calorie natural ingredients and then you try it and you're like oh actually that's pretty good and then that's kind of what what's what's that's the business plan it's not a bad plan uh so it's when you were saying differentiator when you first entered the U.S.

7:49Olly Dixon:market, what was the feedback that really differentiated the product in the market? Because the U.S. market, especially in the space, is very competitive. A new product is launching almost every day in the soft drink category. What were you hearing from either consumers or retail buyers? I know that you mentioned someone who helped get you into Air one but what was like the main differentiator that was really catching people's attention here yeah i don't know it's difficult to say exactly the the moment but the feedback that the person the company brought us over brought over another english soft drink brand at the same time who are way bigger than us and we sold about 10 times what they sold in a year so that was the moment where So we're like, OK, the connection with the US consumer more so than the English consumer.

8:45And I think, you know, it's the most competitive country in the world in terms of soft drinks. There are so many options and the fridges are so large, but also people take soft drinks pretty seriously and consume a lot. So if you can find a white space within that category, I think for us, you know, the modern soda category, as it's been termed, as I said before, mainly it's nostalgic drinks, it's kind of better for you versions of drinks that already exist, whether it's Dr. Pepper or cherry drink or whatever it is. and actually the the fact that we've created these what we call authored flavors so they're flavors that you know I spent a long time creating with our flavor house to get the balance right and all that kind of stuff and you know unique combinations like mango and Thai basil right hibiscus and rose which which actually is is a drink I had in Sri Lanka but that sort of we call it our travel inspired so yeah I got two young kids I don't travel quite as much as I used to but I used to travel a lot and those you know flavor combinations you get in a you know a little restaurant or in a night market whatever it is that kind of resonate and stick in your head and you just think well actually that makes a really interesting refreshing kind of drink that's got

10:09Olly Dixon:that balance of sweetness and acidity very cool yeah I'm definitely gathering that point of view and also the background when tasting all the flavors because they are unique. They do stand out. So when you were entering the U.S. market, you said that it was really going in, seeing how it works, not necessarily having a plan around it. What are some things that have been really working well to capture some of that market share? And you were saying also to US market being 65 % of your business, which is very cool. What are the things that are really catching on and working for the brand? I think so we're I would say we're probably quite unusual in the soft drink space in that food service is not quite as high as retail, but it's pretty high.

11:07It's pretty close. So that sort of distribution in great cafes in great kind of salad places bars hotels restaurants really puts us in the kind of everyday lifestyle of our consumer like we call our consumers the modern conscious consumer right and distribution in those places is really what's driven trial which actually leads to a really healthy d2c business as well because people are trying it you know having it at lunch and then wanting it at home in their fridge um so so that that that's a really um important element i think is being where our consumer wants to shop and then we launched in around half the whole foods at the start of last year so about uh 260 stores doing demos in those stores is really like that's really what dries our velocities so getting people to try the drink then it tastes so different from everything else right you either like it or you're not but if you like it then people tend to really like it and then become kind of consumers for life so that combination of distribution in the right places demos in store and then we work quite hard on um kind of event and brand partnerships with the right communities in the right neighborhoods which again is just getting the cans in the hands of of our consumer we're very targeted in that respect um you know we're not going to be doing a super bowl ad anytime soon it's it's a very specific consumer right we drink something and nothing um and if we partner with the right places and get the drink in the right hands then that really has a kind of cumulative effect on on uh velocities which is something we look very closely at in terms of the health of the business and then overall sales.

13:09Olly Dixon:And you were saying D2C, which is not easy in CPG food and beverage, unless it's more of like a wellness product or a baby product, tends to be really challenging. So I would love to hear how you have approached D2C. yes well it's um i think our amazon grew almost 200 last year and we do invest in the on the on the platform and we have an agency that we work with but it's uh it's a very small investment really versus the return um we probably did a million uh over a million dollars on on d2c last year and yeah we don't fill the top of the funnel with advertising uh as i say we spend a bit with within the ecosystem of Amazon, but all that funnel filling is coming from the distribution in the neighborhoods.

14:04So, you know, New York and California probably are two hotspots at the moment. You know, a lot of DTC customers in New York. And I think that is, they're seeing it in their daily routine and then wanting it at home. And it's kind of as, as simple as that. So yeah, that, that presence so amazon is primary retailer for that i can't remember it probably flipped about 18 months ago but from our own uh shopify store to amazon being being the dominant we are we we have very healthy subscript we're about 65 subscriptions on our shopify so as i say once people like the product they kind of want it and right i guess slightly more affluent consumer perhaps um so they you know start a subscription and then don't go with it don't

15:00Olly Dixon:really tinker with it it's just is that helpful also for scaling and retail showing the brand loyalty with your subscriptions and the concentration of being able to really have more connection directly with who you're targeting yeah i would say you know there's um yeah there's obviously a link between Whole Foods and Amazon there's right data and looked at the whole time uh Amazon data can be looked at by Walmarts and other uh retailers so yeah I think it's um yeah they look at reviews they look at your ranking um you can see pretty easily how much a brand is is is selling um so yeah yeah everything helps i you're kind of within this you know soft drink cpg landscape you're always kind of looking for the next stage i remember speaking to investors and they said oh yeah you know come and speak to us once you're in whole foods and then you get into whole foods and then you get the data from whole foods and And then there's the next retailer, the next kind of online store.

16:11So everything helps everything else, as long as you're doing well, of course. But if there's data, then yeah, you can definitely use it. Tell that story. Tell that story, yeah.

16:23Olly Dixon:Where do you see the brand going? You were saying that you're in Whole Foods, growing on Amazon, expanded internationally. I mean, you're really checking off a lot fairly quickly. But I would love to hear where you see something and nothing going. Well, we've got, we kind of got to this point with essentially three flavors. And we work pretty hard. There's obviously a bit of a lag between when you create and when they get launched. Right. We've now got eight flavors that the majority, they all kind of came out at the end of the summer, end of last year. So this year is really about, you know, focusing on those eight flavors, seeing where they land.

17:08We're looking at like the occasionality rather than it being eight soft drinks. It's like, well, we've made a Sicilian lemonized tea, which actually blends black tea and rooibos tea. So you get a really interesting kind of maltiness and a dryness. so something like that is actually a really elegant drink to have at the end of the day as like an alcohol replacement so whereas the orange and mandarin is kind of based on a famous french french orange drink from the 70s um yeah there's sort of different occasions for the drinks which i think is an interesting thing which we haven't really pushed yet but we're kind of exploring now so yeah there's the obviously there's the kind of general growth of the business there's looking at the next retailers there's growing your footprint there's increasing your velocities which we're really focused on but in terms of the the kind of authorship of the flavors which we've spoken about and then that occasionality of when a different flavor will work with a different moment or experience or with a different food dish or whatever I think is a really interesting space that we can play in that really other soft drinks can't because that's not really their vibe they're kind of like we're a better for you dr pepper that totally

18:33Olly Dixon:makes sense and i'm sure to the placement of certain skews say at the bars or hotels versus even cafes and just those pairings of food and beverage um i could see that being really interesting too yeah I think there's a lot I mean ultimately we'd like to be doing some limited editions um I'm quite interested in creating a sort of sweeter drink that's a kind of nighttime drink kind of got this bittersweet thing in my head um so yeah there's lots of kind of exploration I think around flavor that that we can have at this stage never say never but we're we're very much a taste and flavor uh drinks business we're not gonna do uh we're not gonna enter the functional world um which is not everybody has to i think right now people feel this weird pressure i i'm a brand strategist for pre-launch cpg food and beverage brands and so many founders think that they have to add all these things in in order to be successful i'm like whoa whoa there's there's so many different ways you could go about it So that leads me to my last question.

19:46Is there a piece of advice you would leave a founder who's just in the really early stages, like I said, the types of clients I work with, of something that you've learned along the way that you would absolutely pass down to a founder just

20:01Olly Dixon:starting out? I think there's no way I realized this at the time or kind of you know strategized in this way but a massive dose of naivety from me was actually really useful that I didn't really know the space we didn't know the US like almost the more you know the the the almost the more vanilla your idea becomes because like you say you founders are going oh maybe I should have protein because that's what everyone's talking about and I should do this right whatever that core of an idea that you that got you excited in the first place hold on to that and and protect that with everything you've got because that's the bit that's if it's exciting to you it's exciting to other people and almost the more you learn and the more you get input the the the you know it dissipates and becomes less like less pointy that is a great piece of advice last question before i let you go where can people shop in the u.s for something and nothing well whole foods and amazon as we mentioned uh also in fresh market and uh if you live in florida we're in sprouts uh and then if you're in new york i guess loads of independent delis and i see them everywhere around the city that's good uh and then yeah southern california loads of like health food uh you know health markets um and i'll read the aforementioned error one as well or amazing error one yes well thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your story i've been genuinely looking forward to this like i said something and nothing is stocked in my fridge so thank you so much and thank you everyone for listening.

21:48Olly Dixon:I'll see you on the next episode. Bye. This episode was brought to you by Glimpse. As we know, building a brand is not as sexy and glamorous as it looks on social media at times. A lot of those unsexy problems come into play when brands start to scale in retail distribution. Founders are always incredibly excited to see their products on shelves at major retail chains, but they don't realize all the hard work that starts to begin. Retailers and distributors are known for their processes of deducting amounts from invoices. Most of the time, those are totally valid. Promos, slotting fees, free fills, and all the things that brands agree to to be part of the retail experience.

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23:28Olly Dixon:And custom built AI with 100 % accuracy and precision. You'll recover money that you never should have had leaked in the first place. If you're a brand selling in retail, go to tryglimpse.com backslash trial for 30 days free and let them know I sent you. Thank you again for listening to this episode of the Emerging Brands Podcast. It really means so much to me that you listen to this show, share it with your friends and support it. If you are a CPG food and beverage founder and you're ready to launch a brand, people want to shop, head to withkellybennett.com for the details. And as always, thank you so much for listening, shopping the brands featured on the show and following brands I'm working with.

24:19Olly Dixon:It means so much. See you on the next episode.