LIFTS Episode 117 - Mark Mastrov, UFC Gyms & ABC Fitness on the Future of the Industry | LIVE at HFA 2026

20:16Yeah, great question. I mean, it's like 20 different things you got to be great at. And some people can narrow it down and do it a lot of different ways. But you got to have a very well laid out, clean facility that's maintained and everything's working. In my philosophy, the piece of equipment can't be fixed the day it breaks down, has to come off the floor. So I go in the back room and I tell my guys all the time, If I walk in the gym, I go to the back room first. There's 20 pieces in there, I freak out. If there's none, I'm happy. So that's really important. And then you've got to have great service, not only to your team members, but your member base.

20:48And you've got to be able to work within your community. So you've got to be good in the community, too. You've got to have great grassroots programs. You've got to market intelligently. You've got to get the right messaging out, the right pricing out. So there's so many layers in this business. It's not an easy business. A lot of people think, oh, I can come run a gym. Then they start to run them and go, holy smokes, this is really tough. So it's consumer facing. You're dealing with attrition on a daily basis. People like, hey, I don't work out anymore. I'm moving. I don't want to be here. I don't like that person.

21:15This member bothers me. So it's really, really interesting. But I love it because every day is different. Every day is a challenge. Every day is a lot of fun. Crazy stuff happens. You know, you're in Hawaii right now and everything's flooded. You're like, OK, how are we going to fix the gyms? They're closed. No power. OK, we've got to resolve that. How do we get power up? Do we get a generator? Is the city going to get back up? What are we going to do? Members still want to work out. Let them work out. there's no power they can still lift weights so it's just different things like that make the business super super fun and super exciting so i know you guys know it mindset is probably one of the key things but well yeah it's a can-do attitude always helps but you guys are in the business you know it's you know it's a lot of fun and great people uh love my members love my team it's just a blast just enjoy it so much no great to see you guys thanks appreciate it we're live mo over to We're live.

22:03This is unique because we're holding the mics. I know. Because the equipment didn't all show up, but we're going to have a little workout holding the mics while we're talking. Adam, excited to have you at HFA. And you've been on Lyft before, but I don't think we've ever had you during this event. Well, I'm incredibly excited because not only do I get to be at the event, at the show, but I can be my own personal mic stand. That's right. So it's amazing. It's really worked out. We make our guests work. That's great. So we were just talking before the show, and I wasn't aware of this, but at UFC, I heard jujitsu potentially coming to UFC.

22:38I'm just curious about that. Is this more class-based? Is it an extension of what you're already doing? Well, we already have jujitsu throughout all the gyms around the globe. But what we found out is that the jujitsu community is incredibly tight. Yes. And they're very, very loyal to their instructor and their head coach. And so we at UFC Gym decided with, you know, obviously UFC going with Paramount and having their own jiu-jitsu strategy. We decided to create a jiu-jitsu studio for those black belts that want to have their own business. And so it's incredible because, you know, when you think about opening a UFC gym, it can be four to five million dollars.

23:23Well, not everybody with exception of you guys can necessarily write that check. And so this allows a proven black belt that loves what he does or she does and wants to be entrepreneurial to open up their own studio for about$150 ,000 all in. And now they have their own business. We're even setting up a finance strategy to help the right candidates to open their own business. And what's beautiful is it fills in a lot of white space. So we would never do a UFC gym signature club in a market that has 30 ,000 people. But you could absolutely do a UFC jiu-jitsu studio in that same market. So just so I understand it, is this a studio within a UFC club or is this an independent?

24:12It's interesting. It's both because not in our UFC gym signature clubs, but from an independent perspective, it's typically a 2 ,000 to 3 ,000 square foot footprint. But then we now have other fitness organizations calling us to say, hey, can we lease your brand into our studio or into our gym? And so we're working on a couple global opportunities where other gyms will say, hey, they're going to have their own UFC jiu-jitsu studio within their four walls. Okay, so I have to ask this, Matthew. I know you practice jiu-jitsu. Well, my wife and children do.

24:52Matthew Januszek:I wouldn't make a claim saying I'm doing that. His wife could kick his ass. I do not doubt that. I do not doubt that. But do you think as a modality, obviously Pilates is having an incredible moment right now. But we haven't really thought, and I know that jujitsu and martial arts in general, mixed martial arts as well, has had this whole sub community, but it's a huge community. do you think that there's an opportunity? Because I've had a lot of people say jujitsu is going to be the next thing. Do you see it coming mainstream? Well, I think it's mainstream. I think what you have to do though is look at comfort levels, right?

25:29Because if you take a traditional comfort level just in fitness, the easiest barrier to overcome is kind of the planet fitness effect, right? That's where all, you know, anybody that has any type of form of intimidation around fitness will go to planet fitness first because it's an easy entry. And then when you look at all the brands that are around the globe in the fitness space, it can get more aggressive, it can get more intimidating. And when you extend that to jujitsu, there is no better workout on planet earth. I'm sure Matt understands, Wendy understands. When you're having person versus person in a mental chess match and it's strength versus strength, leverage versus leverage, and while you're doing it, you're building this extreme level of confidence that you're able to protect and defend yourself in the future, it's paramount.

26:22It's the best possible, you know, workout that's mixed with the ability to improve your mental accruity. So I do think it's going to continue to grow. I don't think it replaces Pilates. I think, you know, the beautiful thing about that format is it's just like the planet fitness effect that's really wide is that 10 out of 10 customers will try it if if i have you step into a ufc gym and you're looking across at a you know 180 pound guy that you're going to get on the ground with and he's going to lay on you initially without understanding it it could be a little bit intimidating so as more education comes out as more awareness comes out um and you see the number of impressions that come out from distribution channels like paramount plus and so forth jujitsu will have double digit growth year over year for the next foreseeable future when i came to see you i don't know a few months ago and

27:20Matthew Januszek:we were talking about some of the different business models that were emerging and some of the lessons that you've learned from i probably since the pandemic if you was going to open in the gym again how you would do that i also was over in the uk last week and one of the common challenges that the industry's had is getting people through the doors and keeping them. When I talk to a lot of club owners now, they seem to have the opposite problem where they haven't got enough space in the car park, the gyms are over full. What are you seeing are maybe recently some of the shifts in the gym industry in terms of the models that are working and how maybe some of the newer people are actually, when I say newer people, younger people are actually using gyms a lot more than what their previous generations were?

28:06Yeah, I think, you know, when you start looking at, and I'll speak just US first, and we can talk international if you'd like, but when you look at US, you know, the planets and the EOSs are really good at the enrollment of the high schooler. Yeah. You know, and they're doing a great job. I mean, some of those EOSs have 11, 12 ,000 members, but they have such a high percentage of kids in there because listen,$10 a month and it's close to their school. It's a great workout gym. It works. Planets the same way. And so pricing dictates acquisition strategies. And then you have to be able to properly support it with your value proposition.

28:47If I charge$10 a month and I have an 8 ,000 square foot studio, I'm going to be in trouble. There's no way I'm going to be able to survive because I'm going to enroll 1 ,000 people, jam them in 8 ,000 square feet, and nobody's going to have a good workout. And so it's all how you price it. It's all how you market it and it's how you support it inside the gym. And, you know, one of the things that we learned at UFC is we got to, we got to merge the worlds of value proposition and great workout floors together and compliment that with the right pricing. So now you're going to see gyms that we have that have 60 to 70 ,000 square foot, just workout floors.

29:25And they're going to be massive. And then we're still going to have our studios where people can upgrade. We're still going to have recovery. We're still going to have, you know, we're down the GLP, you know, peptide IV lane. And so that's a business model where you're going to take consumers that go into your workout only funnel and you're going to be able to educate them to upgrade and do different modalities and services to be able to get your average dues per member a little bit higher. It may only be 30 % of your consumers and 70 % just want the right price point and they want to have a great workout, which is fine.

30:00They still refer members. They still bring people in. And the 30%, which I kind of call the brand evangelists, the ambassadors, they're there because of your brand. They're there because they want to take your classes. They're there because they want to do recovery. They're there to pay a little bit more money for an extreme service. And so I think you're going to see more and more of that as the industry continues to grow. But listen, at the end of the day, we're still at, what, 28 to 33 percent penetration rates. And I think it continues to grow. I think all these gyms, you know, popping up are a good thing.

30:36And I think there's going to be a day that the U.S. reaches 50 percent penetration. And of course, international will follow.

30:44Matthew Januszek:And you mentioned international. What are some of the differences that you've seen between what's happening here and some of the other international markets that you're working in? Well, it's interesting because, you know, when you go back 15 years, the U.S. was the clear leader across the board in every component of a fitness gym. Technology, workout floors, the way they, the way we drove fitness, it was just by far the dominant region around the globe. As years have gone by, we've been lapped from a technology perspective. Some of the technological advancements that you see in China, in other markets, are just absolutely amazing.

31:26Of course, in the U.S., you have all these protection rights, so you can't do the same type of facial recognition technology and so forth. I'll be curious to know that because I am a technologist. I'll be curious to know, Adam, what do you think? And we do have a presence in China. I've been there many times. But what do you think? Sure, facial recognition, that's a great example. but what are some other things do you think from a tech perspective um you think that international is outpacing the us yeah i think i think i think what like specifically in china because we're about to open up two gyms there and i think um when you look at the way they use ai and facial recognition together and they create a seamless approach to the consumer where the consumer is and if you will they're kind of the website and then everything else plugs in to that website that they're just 100 % further than the U.S.

32:22is on the ability to satisfy that future technology need that I think our industry is continuing to go towards. You are spot on. So, Matthew, I've been talking about the personal health OS. So what Adam's saying is you are your own app. You are the interface. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is going there. And I think it's related to your conversation on peptides and GLP-1s, right? So when you think about more of your members are spending more money on their wellness, whether it's in your club or not, you're trying to capture a bigger share of that wallet. When you think about integrating peptides, are you talking about people or programming for people that are on peptides or GLPs or are you thinking about offering those yourself?

33:09All of the above. Okay. You know, and as an example, you know, Matt came out and took a tour of the gym that I own in Corona. And we're putting in an IV clinic where we've already got peptides rolling. We got the registration of the doctors, nurses, you know, everything that we need to do it the right way, the safe way, and make sure we're truly helping the consumer. It's not just a money grab. It's it's a position where we really view that this is the next step in the evolution of fitness gyms where it's, you know, you put the time into the gym, you put the time into the classes, you do your recovery.

33:50But the nutrition is going to be the very next step of where things are going, especially in the U.S., which is the worst nutrition driven market around the globe. um you know it's it's it's really going to help us round round out what is needed for the consumer's journey in fitness and and i'm excited about it i'm excited about where it's going now me personally um i would love that to check a box to say i waive my permission rights of protection and and i want to be the website and you can plug into me all day i have nothing to hide and i would love to be able to have my apple watching i think i think i think we're we are very very quickly

34:30Matthew Januszek:moving towards that i agree how you with the peptides it is a quite a gray area a lot of the research is still coming through we did a podcast a few months ago and uh there's there's there's a lot of things that are not quite known about that space um what are you you're obviously part of a very reputable world, world-renowned brand. How are you partnering or getting the correct knowledge when it comes to recommending things like peptides into the business? Well, it is an important one, right? Because if you don't get stuff that is properly tested and its purity level has to be measured, you can create a lot of exposure for yourself and it's bad for your consumer, of course, right?

35:18So we made sure, you know, working with all of our relationships within UFC Gym, that we have an incredibly reputable partner in the space that has reputable doctors, all the certifications, are licensed in all 50 states, and they go through rigorous testing to make sure that their purity is in place. But, you know, when you look at when you look at peptides, I was a little, it was a little intimidating for me, um, initially, but when you start really studying it and understanding how it, you know, it's basically an amino and it turns the body, it just turns the body on to be able to do certain things.

36:01It's not a steroid. It's not, it's not going down that lane. It's, it's just complimenting what the body is lacking and it's saying, hey body, wake up, let's start turning this particular function on so you can maximize your results. So we're very comfortable with our partner. We're -

36:21Matthew Januszek:Are you taking anything at the moment? Oh my God, yeah. What are ones that you are? The 157, the NAD, I'm taking the tanning. Oh, that's why you're going. Come on, you're looking good. You're looking good. So it's the BCP157, which we've talked about. And you've taken NAD. I'm thinking about it, but you've taken NAD. I've taken the NAD, yeah. So those are the ones. So the top ones outside of the tanning one. Those look good on you. It looks like you spent two weeks in the Caribbean. When you get older, it hides the wrinkles, man. It hides the wrinkles. So BP157 and NAD, those are the two that you...

36:56I take four. And I can't remember the other one I'm taking, which is not a good thing. And what's the frequency? I take it five times a week. So every morning I take four shots and then I take Saturday, Sunday off. So the BCB 157, you do the shots, not the pills. Correct. Because we had that conversation. You got to take the shot because in order for it to reach your bloodstream the right way, those things are so temperamental with temperature and how it's delivered into your bloodstream, you'll lose the result. in my opinion. The data that I've looked at, you lose the result if you take it in a pill form.

37:36Matthew Januszek:How are you feeling now? It's completely turned me around, you know, because I work a lot and I travel a lot. And when you're on the road 180 days a year and you're traveling all over the globe, being on airplanes can really, you know, say, hey, I don't want to go work out. I just want to go to bed. And taking these things, you know, I get more efficiency out of my sleep. I wake up every morning at 4.30 without an alarm clock. I go to bed at 10 o 'clock right on time without needing anything. It's been amazing. It's been amazing. The energy to work out to. I'm going to have to come down and get you to hook me up on some of this stuff.

38:16Matthew Januszek:It sounds amazing. No problem. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You got it. My pleasure. Thanks, guys. Bill Davis, this is awesome because you are my boss at ABC Fitness. You are the CEO of ABC Fitness. Thank you for coming on to Lyfts. We're excited to have you on. Why don't you start by just talking about how you came to ABC and how long you've been? First of all, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Real quick backstory. I've been at ABC Fitness now seven years, which is kind of hard to believe. But how I came to ABC was I was actually recruited by Toma Bravo, our private equity owner, to be an operating partner.

38:56And it just so happened that the very first portfolio company that I got introduced to was this Little Rock, Arkansas-based business called ABC Financial. And I went, spent a day and a half, two days with the then leadership team, and I saw something special there. And I remember driving to the airport in Little Rock, calling the lead investing partner, saying, this is a platform that is ripe for major transformation. And lo and behold, two weeks later, he called me back. He's like, would you be interested in stepping in and running it for us? So that's how it came to be. Officially signed on in February of 19.

39:37And I don't know if we'll touch on the pandemic, but naturally the pandemic, no one could have foreseen a year later. But it's been a really, really exciting journey.

39:45Matthew Januszek:So what is it? Is it 40 years ABC have been around? It is. It's 40 years. and its heritage is all about payments, which we may get into. But Jim Botin, the founder of ABC, was running martial arts studios way back in the day, was absolutely frustrated how his membership was being managed, how it was being billed. And so he said, you know what, I'm going to go and I'm going to create a solution myself. and then through events like HFA, he shared what he had developed and that's how ABC in essence was born. So 40 years is a long time for like we're in, we make steel and steel fitness equipment. And when you look at fitness equipment over that period of time, things have changed, but biomechanics are the same.

40:34Matthew Januszek:You've got some technology, but essentially very similar. The technology business is kind of almost unrecognizable from probably what it was in 40 years ago, particularly even in the last few years with things like AI that we talk about a lot, even payments, how that's changing. So how has a company that's grown to be as dominant as what ABC has managed to or is managing staying up to date with such a sort of transformation that's happening in the world at the moment? Yeah, I would say I'd say it's grounded in three things. First and foremost is what has been consistent throughout that 40 year history of ABC is ensuring that we are there doing what was necessary to ensure our customers were successful.

41:20And and then you guys know, because we spent all our time in gyms, it is about the member experience and ultimately the revenue optimization of that club's performance. And both of those things have been prioritized by ABC from day one and remain central to our value proposition today. Second, though, and where I saw the opportunity seven years ago, was I would have described for the first 33 years of ABC's existence as really being truly a tech-enabled service company. And what I saw as the opportunity was to transform it to become truly a technology company to attend to those emerging trends that you were talking about.

42:07So it did, in fact, necessitate reconstituting the leadership team, including recruiting individuals like Mo to our team, but also just fundamentally shifting a culture from a service mindset to really being capable of delivering modernized technology solutions. And then the third dimension is you have to be maniacal in staying connected to the market and what the needs are, the emerging trends are, and allow that to be a driving force in our product roadmap and overall where we're taking the business. In fact, as Mo can attest to, we commit as a management team several times a year to talk about nothing other than the future of fitness.

43:02Where do we see it going three, four, five years from now? And are we responding as a technology company in terms of those anticipatory needs? One of the things, and I recall this breakfast that we had in BC, Bill, and it was such a good time because I think what impressed me most about the opportunity at ABC and now being on the inside of ABC is the sheer scale. Yeah. And people, when I talk about the scale of ABC, people don't realize how enormous that scale is, but also in the age of AI, the importance of that scale and why the scale is relevant. Could you speak a bit about, you know, why our scale gives us permission to enter this new age of AI?

43:44Yeah. Well, it's not just permission. I would say as a practical matter, it gives us the requisite resources to be able to invest in the way that a technology company has to to capitalize on these emerging trends, including AI. I will tell you guys, and Mo knows this as well, I feel like ABC is just getting started. Because back to the history, for 33 years, ABC was exclusively focused on U.S. market only and traditional gyms only. And what we've attempted to do over these past several years is broaden our reach to where we are now not only attending to the needs of traditional gyms, but studio boutiques and personal trainers alike.

44:26And we're doing that across now over 100 countries. And so I believe in all sincerity, we're just getting started in terms of the reach that we are capable of having. But it brings a level of complexity. You touched on payments a moment ago. One of the inherent difficulties of standing up technology in these different markets in an integrated way, the way that we do, is really solving that back-end payment and all the infrastructure that is necessary because every country has different banking and regulatory requirements that you have to be attentive to. And it's, again, a core competency that we have invested heavily in to expand our reach.

45:09Matthew Januszek:But what would you say with you like you get to see a huge amount of data and consumer insights that probably very few people in the world ever, you know, get to understand your perspective on the business? What would you say are some of the things for people in the fitness industry that may not know that you're starting to see from some of the data that you're collecting? And I know a lot of this is obviously confidential, so you have to be careful what you say. But are there any kind of key changes that you're seeing probably over the last three or four years that would be interesting to share to anyone that's listening today?

45:41Well, first of all, I always encourage people to look at that data from a demographic and from an age perspective because the behaviors and motivations are fundamentally different. I've been talking for the last several months that the younger generation, in particular, the 20 to 24-year-olds, they're a driving force in the fitness industry from a membership perspective. And there's a couple of relevant considerations related to that. First of all, how they're paying. And the onslaught of neobank as a form of payment is creating a dynamic that, quite honestly, the industry wasn't fully anticipating.

46:30What's neobank? Neobanks are the chimes of the world and those that basically are a completely online banking. and their requirements and, I dare say, the financial sophistication of their users tends to be less so. And that's probably not a fair broad statement, but generally speaking, I would make the assertion. And so you're witnessing an industry that's trying to respond to this different form of payment and dramatically lower collection rates related to it and the like. And so that's just one consideration that is very demographic specific. The second more encouraging is their expectation of optionality and personalization.

47:23And I think that that is going to manifest itself in gym operators having to think about different business models. You naturally have the onset of ClassPass and WellHub and these aggregator-type models. The challenge from a club operator perspective is giving up that economic and not yet seeing the translation to full-time membership as they aspire to. And so can they, in essence, figure that out and be the driving force for that optionality and increased personalization? You go to the other extreme, and the aged over 65 population is also a phenomenal driving force, and it's really about access, convenience, that high-touch experience, by the way, which they're willing to pay for.

48:20So, again, I always think about it in terms of the demographic or the segmentation is the biggest call-out I would make for you to consider. Just before you, we had Adam Sedlak on, CEO of UFC Gyms, who's an ABC customer. He also referenced two other ABC customers, Planet Fitness and EOS. And he said that they are focused just because of their price points so much on bringing in high school members and this younger demo. And to your point, they actually expect more. And in a lot of ways, they're harder to work with than a traditional gym member. And that brings me to the next point, which is gyms are getting more complicated to operate.

49:00As ABC Fitness, how do we think about how we want to help an operator be more successful? What are some of the things from a roadmap perspective that you could speak to where we could enable operators being more successful and also getting closer with their members? Yeah, I'll mention three. So we very much think about our offering as an operating system for the club. And we, in doing so, fully embrace an open architecture, open environment. Because in this age of AI, the reality is that the innovation, and again, back to that personalization that clubs or operators like Planet Fitness, they're inevitably going to want to control more and more of that experience, but recognize a need that as they build, you know, AI agents and the like, they need an ecosystem or an operating system to, in essence, plug those discrete experiences back into, not only to ensure data privacy, security, you know, proper regulatory compliance and the like, but that in turn, those experiences ultimately are being monetized the right way.

50:14And again, as more and more personalization comes into fitness, I believe the inherent complexity of what these operating systems are going to be required to do to, in essence, capture that experience and then in turn ensure that it is being charged and collected the right way, I think is a phenomenal opportunity. So we literally just announced yesterday, you know, AI is not discrete capability that we're bolting on to ABC, but we're actually integrating it across our entire platform to give our customers the requisite tools to, in essence, drive that personalization that I'm talking about. In a more discreet fashion, we're doing some really exciting innovation around how do we help personal trainers become more efficient and effective in building those personalized training programs for their members.

51:12We're leveraging AI extensively in optimizing when we actually charge or attempt to charge to improve first-time success relative to what we call intelligent billing capabilities. We're doing as many, you know, many in the space are tools that are geared towards improving retention, identifying risk earlier, you know, in terms of memberships that are likely to attract, as well as on the very front end, how we improved efficiency on new member acquisitions. So we're doing a lot in the innovation area that we're quite excited about.

51:50Matthew Januszek:One other thing that I was just to jump back to my previous question I was quite interested in is that we spoke to Adam and also when we were in PerformX last week about the younger demographic going to the gym more regularly than probably some of the older people. What are you seeing on that? Is that just sort of a regional thing that certain chains are getting in a lot more people and the younger people are staying there longer? Or is this something that you're seeing as a trend across a lot of the ABC clients? Yes, we absolutely. Attendance is up. And so and I wouldn't say it's particularly unique to the younger demographics.

52:25We're seeing attendance improvement across all demographics. So I'm actually quite encouraged by that. And it's reinforcing of what we fundamentally believe is post pandemic. This is increasingly a lifestyle choice that people are making. I'm sure you guys have talked on other podcasts, you know, drinking or alcohol consumption is way down. healthier eating habits are on the rise. It seems like every education session here is talking about longevity. So it is very much central. But what I would distinguish, and I mentioned this earlier, and it's anecdotal and I'll acknowledge that, but I have three boys and two daughters-in-law that are all in their 20s.

53:10And what they want more than anything is optionality. And so they want. They want to go to a certain location for their Pilates. They want to go to another location for their strength. They want to run outside on their cardio day and the like. And so again, what I believe we're going to witness over these next three, four, five years is an evolution of operators' business models in terms of how do you accommodate that optionality? And I think, again, in AI, the ability to bring the technology along in a way to adjoin with that market need, I think is more exciting than it's ever been. And as we're thinking about data, there's a lot of talk around.

53:57We collect a lot of data. We share a lot of data as well. I'd be curious to get your thoughts, Bill, in terms of our competitors out there. You're here, You're part of the HFA board. We're part of the Digital Health Council. How important is it for collaboration within the industry? Yeah, I think it's incredibly important. And I'm very encouraged by the great work that is being led in part by you and a few others on the Data Council. Because first, it needs to really start with standardization. Are we measuring and are we tracking data in a similar way? Again, across just our base, what constitutes a member is different from brand to brand to brand.

54:39And so just getting that common understanding, I would say the fitness industry is far behind a lot of other industries, including health care, which I have some background in, you know, in terms of the inherent benefits of that. So I think it starts in the standardization by far. I think, though, as you think about an era of AI, data is everything because the models, the learning models and the agents that are built can only be educated by virtue of the robustness of the data that you bring. And what I'm really fascinated by is just five years ago, when people talked about data and fitness, it was primarily transactional data.

55:24Are they a member? Are they, to your earlier question, are they showing up? Do they, in essence, pay their bills? But now with the wearables, the biometrics, now it's all about performance data. And bringing that together only enriches the decision support that can be made, not just for club operators, but the members themselves. And the one thing, the one call out, and I don't know that we're being as attentive to this aspect as an industry as we need to be, is how does that need for more alignment, tighter integration improve the member experience? Right. So I'll just use equipment manufacturers as a tangible example.

56:07You don't want to put the burden on a member to have to decide I'm getting on a life, you know, a life fitness piece of equipment or matrix or techno gym or what have you. You want that to be as seamless as possible and feed into their health or fitness experience. That's where I think there's tremendous opportunity. And I think a lot of the dialogue is more from an operator efficiency perspective and where I think the narrative really needs to go more towards is how do we make it more seamless and more impactful for the members themselves. On a panel that we had yesterday, Jeff Zuipo, former president of Lifetime, I think he might have been there, but mentioned that they were fully focused on getting their member to spend as much time on their app as possible.

56:57So to your point, it's about how can you build in all the wellness needs of a member within that ecosystem. And for most gyms with ABC, that ecosystem is us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, drawing on my my health care experience, you know, we spent years trying to figure out how you effectuate a personal health record and how does that personal health record follow an individual from physician to physician or caregiver to caregiver. And I think we as a fitness industry need to be thinking in similar terms. How do we create that central connection where it's not dependent on that member having to create that connectivity for themselves?

57:36It more seamlessly happens. And I think, again, that mobile, that individual phone device that every human being has at least one and often more than one, that's, in my estimation, the connection point that we have to be prepared to connect and provide for the members.

57:57Matthew Januszek:Well, thank you very much, Bill. Appreciate your time today. All right. Really appreciate you guys having me on. Thank you.

58:08Thank you.