LIFTS Episode 132 – Inside Athletech New York: How the Best Fitness Brands Are Adapting | LIFTS Live in New York

23:17I think I don't know if you have an aura ring or not. I'm a terrible example of wearables. I have nothing. I just actually got an Oura ring, but I have never had an Apple Watch. I am no whoop. I'm a terrible person to ask. Well, the Apple Watch is a good start. No, I never even had one of those. But now you do. No, no. Oh, still don't. But you got an Oura ring. I have an Oura ring. Okay. But I'm a terrible, I'm not the person to ask when it comes to wearables. But hold on. So when you do an OGF class, you do wear the heart rate monitor. I'll wear the heart rate. I like the OG heart rate monitor.

23:42So technically, that's wearable. But only for my class, and then I take it off. I'm not a wearable, daily wearable user. Why is that? You know, I think with the app, also I will, everyone jokes with me at work, I don't speak tech. I'm terrible at technology. So the Apple Watch was just too, I didn't want to be too connected. And then I just really never got into any of the others. Okay. Transparently. I know, terrible. Well, you always see me super responsive. You're quick with our messages. So I always appreciate that. I'm good at email. But so when you think about the experience for an Orange Theory consumer, I think, you know, how do you think about getting closer to that member experience?

24:19Because when you think about partnerships, you want to, sure, be more visible in places that are not just fitness, but also outside. And that could be a way to bring people in. But then for the member itself, how do you get them more engaged? Because community is really strong. But how can partnerships play a role? You mentioned food, which is this protein bar. You kind of talked about apparel as well. Sorry? You talked about clothing, apparel as well. Yes, yes. Yeah, I think, I mean, it all starts in the studio, right? And that's just a challenge across franchising where, you know, we from the corporate office work really, really hard to make sure that our owners and our operators are trained from the top-down messaging of what is important.

25:04in, how do we get our members excited? It's the sales associates as well, it's the coaches, it's people who are in the studios on the floor, like how do you engage the member? And that's something we always look at when we're going to launch something. So if the studio staff is not interested and the coaches aren't interested, the members are not going to be interested. So it really starts from how do we as a company tell a story that gets everybody excited so that our customers are excited and everybody is singing the same tune per se.

25:31Matthew Januszek:Well, how does that apply to the other brands? So, so anytime? Anytime, yep. What are the differences between the, you know, being successful in partnerships with Orange Theory and Anytime? Yeah, so Anytime, just a completely different model. Started accessibility. So 24-7, we're open every day, all hours of the day. It's a really good place. What I have learned is first responders, people who are frontline workers who work odd hours that can only go to the gym at midnight or one o 'clock in the morning. That's really where the concept started. And anytime again, we have a very different but loyal customer.

26:09I think just given boutique fitness versus gyms, you're not going to always get the community because it's more of an in and out, right? We're not in the class. But anytime is by the end of this year, we'll have over 6 ,000 locations globally. Our international growth just is really paving the way. I spoke to Sondra last night. He's telling me about it. Yeah, the internet. It's truly incredible what they're doing. And in the U.S., we're redesigning all of our clubs. So everything is getting updated. What you see from an international perspective is they have their own recovery stations and they're bringing in more innovation.

26:47Just given that the clubs are new and we can start from scratch. So I think giving the member access to recovery, to beverages, to protein, things like that within the club, that's what gets them excited. And again, it goes back to that value.

27:01Matthew Januszek:What about partnerships? So do you get the same, like if you come up with it, whether it's a bar or a drink or something, do you get the same sort of connection or did I embrace it in the same way? Or do you have to approach that differently for any time? It's a little different just given the model as well. So the way that their network works from a franchise perspective, how we roll things out, tech capabilities, operational, so different. All of our brands are very different. So it's finding the best. When you get a partnership that comes in or you're thinking of something, it's looking at how we operationally roll it out and then determining kind of what's the best way to touch our members.

27:43Orange Theory, for example, you book classes in the app. So every member is going in that app and booking. Anytime Fitness, you don't need to access the app every day. We have an access pass through Apple Wallet. So it's things like that, that when you really break it down, the brands are so different. So it's finding what works for that. We also laugh internally that Orange is such an easy flavor profile. With Purple, we're laughing. We're like, grape? Is it fig? Like, which one is it? So just very different brands. That's funny. We have a lot of operators that listen to our podcast. and I think partnerships is a great way to extend the brand, add more to the community.

28:19What are the things that they should be talking for? So when you think about a partnership, when you launch this new partnership, what are some of the success metrics you're looking for? What are some of the key indicators that you're looking for? Yeah, so I have a framework of three different pillars that I start with. So brand awareness, amplification. So we want to make sure, like I said before, the brands are known outside of fitness, but also known to people who do exercise. We want them to see a splat and to see a purple AF and say, okay, I know these brands. In addition to that, we want to drive value for our members.

28:50So that's the amplification piece. Our second would be lead generation and membership. So how do I get people through our clubs and studios? How do I get them to join and stay? And then our third, of course, is how do you drive revenue to our franchisees, to corporate? What does that look like as well? So that's kind of the framework. And then once we get a partnership, we try to really evaluate, okay, is this a lead gen opportunity? Is this a revenue play? Is this just brand awareness or is it all three?

29:18Matthew Januszek:I was curious, like my guess is that you're young and I don't want to, you don't ask an age, but my guess is you're definitely a lot younger than what I am. I'm sure Mo as well. It's all the red light. See, wellness. You mentioned that you weren't into technology. You don't have any wearables. It's funny because when I talk to my children and I've been reading more stuff online, it seems as though there's this almost rebel in some cases not in all against sort of being too connected and and Technology like it sounds as though you have to be up to date with trends and what's going on in the world What are you seeing?

29:55Matthew Januszek:Regarding more of a younger people's relationship to technology and do you feel that there will be this? slight difference to probably where we are now, where we're totally connected to people almost having this, I'm not connected to anything at all. And then I go back into a connected world. Like what's your thoughts on that? For the younger people that I do know, what I think is interesting is they're using phones, but they're using apps that aren't two-way communication. So they're scrolling or they're looking at videos and things. And I'm, not in that demographic anymore, but they're not as connected from like a communication standpoint is what I've seen.

30:34They're on the TikToks, they're on like reels and things like that. So they're not as connected. But again, that can shift. I see kids all the time. They're, you know, quickly texting back and forth. I don't know. That's a very good question. And I'm because I'm not tech connected or as well versed in tech but I think my generation at least we are actually I'll say I had it I had it the best of both worlds I played outside when I didn't have technology and then I was in the in the age of dial-up internet and when cell phones really started coming out so I kind of had the best of both worlds so I think maybe my generation's a good balance but I think when it comes to work and every day we're so connected to just making sure we're accessible and can answer quickly.

31:23All right, well thank you so much for coming on Lauren. Thank you guys for having me, honored. So we have Warren Heffefiger, the CEO of ISSA at Appletech. This is your first time at Appletech and you said, we're talking about before, you don't go to a lot of conferences. No, I tend not to. First couple of years at ISSA, I've been pretty heads down. We've been building some really fun things and you know now a bit of my coming out party. We're trying to get out here and get the, I'm going to get out in public a lot more now. It's fun.

31:54Matthew Januszek:So one of the things that got my attention was on the podcast, we've spoken quite a lot to different people about there being a real shortage of trainers. And in particular, after the pandemic, many trainers went off and worked on their own. You've got a slightly different view of that perspective. So why don't you share what you're seeing and give us some of background on on why you believe that's the case sure so so there's a lot of opening position a lot of open position for trainers 225 000 globally um we track this pretty closely i think there's a there's a misnomer though that there is a that there's a supply issue there's no supply issue we have an overabundance of people that want to be personal trainers so i think i'll describe it more as a supply and demand chasm there's a there's a there's a lack of a bridge between the two And so if you're an operator, it's hard to find these trainers.

32:45And that's the real problem. But there's plenty of supply out there if you look for it closely enough. So there's also, I think, confusion around the types of certifications that are provided. We were talking about this right before. There's ones that are accredited, then you've got an open book. So if you're a fitness facility and you're looking to either train your trainers through a certification process or you're looking to understand the differences between certifications from the various companies, how do you advise that an operator should, what should they be looking for? Well, I think there's two things to answer.

33:23First of all, there's the baseline accreditation. So most of us, including ISSA, of course, have accredited courses that we offer. I think what we're now seeing is that we're really trying to produce what we call full-stack trainers. We think about specialize. We think about certify, specialize, and connect. And those are the skill sets a trainer needs now. So certification, accreditation, that's only the first step in the process for a trainer. I think after that, you have to become more specialized, offering things like GLP-1 certifications and menopause certifications, longevity certifications.

33:56But all around this is the most important skill, which is the soft skill of connection. And so all of our courses are embedded with lots of soft skills and personalization so that a trainer can actually be successful working one-on-one with their clients.

34:09Matthew Januszek:How are education companies like yourselves keeping up with the rate of change? There's no shortage of information out there, podcasts. Consumers are extremely, well, I was going to say extremely well-educated. but they probably feel as though they're very well educated compared to their trainer. So what do you do as a training body when you're having to have a certain amount of lag time with some of the information that's out there, like GLP-1s and peptides and many of the information you're getting from your wearables, but at the same time keeping things relevant for the guys and girls that are going through your education curriculum?

34:55So for us to say, we have a fantastic embedded feedback loop. And it actually, you know, we're at the start or finish, depending on your perspective. But it starts with the clients, the end users of fitness facilities. And so they're giving feedback to trainers. Trainers give feedback to the operators. The operators give feedback to us. And so there's a tremendous loop. And we've accelerated our curriculum development process. We've dropped it by about 90 % in the last two years. And so things I just mentioned, GLP-1 certification, menopause certification, used to take months or years to get that done.

35:27And we hear the feedback from the end user, and we're able to roll these courses out very quickly to meet market demand. And this ends up with this trend of hyper-personalization, so where you can really meet the clients where they want to be met. And the second thing I would say is technology is advancing curriculum and programming, as you would say. but technology without humans is not worth much. We've had programming for decades, for hundreds of years, really. I mean, if you want programming, you can get a Jane Fonda VHS from the 80s. There's lots of content out there, but without a human being to drive accountability and behavior, it's really not worth it.

36:07Well, that's something we've been talking a lot about recently is the role of AI. And I think the role of the trainer has changed a lot where there's more of an emphasis on soft skills, things like empathy, things like having a trainer is going to provide accountability. Because members are coming in with programs that they might have found through AI. The role of the coach and the trainer has really evolved. Just let's look at your perspective on how you think the role of the coach is changing, what has changed because of AI. Yeah, listen, AI is a great tool. It is and will be a great tool. It's also just another technology.

36:43So I think AI is going to be very important in developing programming, and that frees up trainers to spend more of their time on the soft skills around behavior change and accountability. So I think trainers are adapting to this and saying, well, I now have more time to be able to drive hyper-personalized programming for my clients and to be able to focus on their behavior change. I mean, the classic example, I mean, Peloton is wonderful, but how many Pelotons just have like clothes hanging on them and gathering dust? Because it's just a machine. It's something that needs somebody to help facilitate that behavioral change.

37:16Matthew Januszek:With your view on like what industry did you come in from? You said you've only been here for a few years. I was in a related health and wellness business around like online therapy coaching. Right. So if you're speaking to new people, new trainers coming into the industry now with what Mo said around AI, and I guess there's a lot of support that trainers have now or can get now that they didn't have. What would you say is one of the timeless things that they can focus on in terms of really doubling down on a particular skill that's likely to be undisrupted by technology? It's absolutely the soft skills.

37:54Absolutely. I mean, historically, there was a misnomer that because I'm strong and fit and I know how to lift weights and I can do lat pulldowns, that I'm going to be a good trainer. And you need those skills, of course, but that's just the fundamental, that's just the basic building block. If you don't have the soft skills, you're not going to succeed because ultimately, clients are looking to change. They want to become the better version of themselves, and they need that human interaction, the soft skills. without being very good at the soft skills you're not going to succeed so we talked about that there was a big exodus during the pandemic of personal trainers people left the industry or they went on their own and they started their own digital kind of products a lot of that was driven because of pay they weren't making enough at the gym or the split they didn't feel like was that was equitable or fair they went out on their own started making more money they left the industry started making more money.

38:51I'm sure pay and trainer pay is something that you think about a lot. We just would love to understand your opinion on, do you think you could make a reasonable living wage in a city like New York? I live in Washington. Matthew lives in Newport Beach, California. These are expensive places to live. What's your perspective on where trainer pay is today? Well, you know, our operating partners, you know, we have very good data on this. And And successful trainers are making a very good living. But we get back to that same theme around, it's not just about the programming. The successful trainers have those intangible skills and they're able to build a clientele.

39:30If you're churning and burning clients, you're not going to make a good living as a trainer. That's a pretty simple equation. But if you're able to provide value to your clients and have them come back and back and back, that's where you make a good living and the pay can be just fine. You can live anywhere in the world and be a successful personal trainer if you have those soft skills. Thanks.

39:49Matthew Januszek:Well, thanks for your time today. Absolutely. Thank you. All right. Well, let's do it. Pete Moore. Pete Moore, you can look at me. It's not going to be awkward. It's going to be awkward if you look at me. It's not awkward, bro. It's not awkward. I like you and I know you for a long time. And then we've done a close thing together. We've done a lot together. We've done a lot together. Yeah, we've done SoulCycle, mergers and acquisitions. I'd say between those two things, that's pretty intense. You get in in good days, dark days, calls. In fact, I won't forget this. we're working on projects together.

40:18Do you remember this? My wife had literally given birth to my youngest. And we were on a call in the hospital because it was that important. Well, that's how you roll. That's why I like you because I know that no matter what time of the day, you're available. Literally all the time. There's never been a time when I've said, like, yo, Mo, he wasn't clear on that. I've never said that before until now. I apologize. We've been saying that right now. No, no, but likewise. So Pete Moore, I mean, you have coined the Halo term. I saw Eddie gave you a shout out in the opening, which is amazing. You've been in this industry for decades.

40:58You have led the most interesting transactions. You found value in transactions where people didn't even see any value and really helped a lot of people out, helped the industry out. You've educated the industry on EBITDA, on the business. What's your EBITDA t-shirt? You got the Ibita t-shirt on. And we saw you yesterday. You pulled out this laminated card. I have a copy. It's in my bag. Tell us about this. Yeah, so to kind of synthesize what's going on in the last 20 years, I used to tell people I'm a health and wellness banker. And every time I had the word wellness come out of my mouth, I kind of cringed because I didn't like the word that came out of my mouth.

41:41I didn't know why. And then I Googled it and it turned out that there was a guy at the Mayo Clinic back in the 50s. His name was Dr. Halbert Dunn. And he was trying to come up with the antonym of illness. So the antonym of illness is wellness, which to me is the not sick industry. And as you guys are big proponents of everything going on here and have waved the flag, and I love you guys both for what you guys are doing and the achievements you've had personally and professionally with the podcast, we're at a completely another level. and the private equity groups that are coming in here, the companies you work for all along by multi-billion dollar private equity funds, like we are in the major leagues.

42:18And the only thing that's not major league is the name of our industry. We're not the health club industry. We're not the connected fifthness. People kind of come up with all these different, you know, uses of different words. And nine years ago, I woke up in the middle of the night. I'm like, it's got to be called the halo sector. And it stands for health, active lifestyle outdoors. That's what I dreamed about. Maybe we should think about branding less as less as the podcast of the Halo sector. I mean, look, so what we did originally was we came out with Halo Talks, which is a podcast. Did you trademark that?

42:50We trademarked Halo Talks. We trademarked Halo Academy and Halo Advisors. But we purposely did not trademark Halo because I want everyone to use it. And I want that to be the name of the industry. Just like the SaaS industry, the TMT, you know, wealth management. You know, it's called the Halo sector. so in order to do that over the last nine years i started the podcast solely to help sell companies and create an audio teaser that was the reason for the podcast because i couldn't get people to actually read five pages in powerpoint before a presentation okay and then people said hey can i come on the show and it was a way for us not to say no to potential investment banking clients and say hey i'll do a podcast with you use it as kind of an infomercial to go and raise money or do a deal whatever you need to do.

43:35Matthew Januszek:And what was those things that you got me on a while? You used to do these breakdowns of companies like I jumped on the CrossFit one and the Planet Fitness one. So then during COVID you've been on a couple of times. You helped me on a couple of those. Well we did, you helped me with Peloton. I did five case studies over a two week crash course kind of like a Halo Academy boot camp. Yeah and I basically went to Harvard Business School so I basically repurposed cases that were developed by different business schools and basically had our own little mini MBA program. Are you still doing that? I'm still doing that.

44:08I do it privately for some companies that you know of where I'll do it one day. And then in September, we're doing one case a month at the beginning of the month. And we've got a Kajabi community platform that's set up. Yeah, we should re-engage on that because I really like what you've done. And we'll chat off on it. It's really good. And it was really just trying to break down the business models. And, you know, what I tell a lot of people in the industry, and you guys know this all too well, that if you're going to go and articulate your business plan and try and get capital for it, you better know what other business plans are being deployed and what our offensive playbooks are being deployed by the other players in the space you're competing with.

44:48And once you can articulate that, then you can say, here's my lane or here's my point of differentiation, and that's how you get your capital and understand the metrics of that. So I know we're short on time here, But what we wanted to do is basically define the halo sector. So guys like you could say, okay, I get it. Not just like, hey, Pete, that's a cool acronym. But actually put something behind it. So we came up with 52 public companies. These are all tracked with their revenue and EBITDA multiples. There's a QR code on the back here. By the way, I've been doing this myself manually. You know this.

45:20I have to pull the shit out. What you've been doing with your weekly wrap-ups is very in sync. And I repost a lot of your stuff also. Because it's on point. with this sector. It's hard to get the data. It's a lot of time because no one's been pulling this together. Yeah, so we want to pull it together, you know, for two reasons. One is, you know, there's a legacy of like, we started when we used to go to trade shows, you know, I had a 10 by 10 booth and there was no private equity. And now look where we've come. So I want the Halo Sector acronym to be like what everyone says. I'm an investor in the Halo Sector.

45:52That's important to me. And the second thing is, these companies that are on this list need to be at these shows. I think ATN's done a good job of expanding the breadth of the vendors.

46:02Matthew Januszek:But like, who would be some of the sort of probably not so obvious? Like, why isn't Chipotle here as a potential partner of like do 10 workouts and get a Chipotle? Why is Chipotle on that list? Because it's a healthier food choice than going to a McDonald's or a Taco Bell. You know, Dick's Sporting Goods. Why doesn't Dick's Sporting Goods run the e-commerce for the entire health club industry? Why don't they do that? I mean, we've got all this data that you talk about all the time. They have the equipment. They run a marathon. They're the big sponsor of Pittsburgh Marathon. Right. But also, you're a health club operator.

46:40You go into your system and say, show me everybody that said that they're training for a race. Show me everybody that ran on a treadmill from all the wearables. And now send them a gift card from Dick's Sporting Goods, right? We'll have Dick's 40s come in and do a pro shop. Madison Square Garden. Is there a reason why New York sports clubs and Crunch doesn't have a deal where overflow tickets that are available for all these events or preseason games aren't in partnership? Is there a reason why the locker room in the Bronx doesn't look like the New York Yankees? Is there a reason why Dasani Water doesn't have Crunch Fitness powered by Dasani Water?

47:18Why is it that only arenas get branded, right? Why isn't Lifetime Fitness, you know, sponsored by, you know, Garmin? Garmin is a$47 billion market cap company, right? So there should be some sponsorship revenue. You know, Manchester United, take a look at Polaris, which makes boats, right? With a health active lifestyle outdoors. Okay, so you've gone with this list, Rob, which is really helpful because when I look at this, and I try to do my own analysis, I take a very narrow view point because there's not enough public companies that are out there from pure sense in our sector. But I think when I think about how to price things, you've got to look a little bit outside in the adjacency, and that's what you've done here.

48:03Yeah, so we've got like Vail Resorts on here. We've got VF Corp, which does a lot of the apparel on the outdoor side. You've got Brunswick, one of the largest boat companies. You got EPR, which is a real estate investment group that focuses on experiential properties. So, look, this list is going to kind of ebb and flow. What we did, to keep it simple, because I'm like, hopefully the most creative bank you'll ever meet. In my next lifetime, I'll come back as a marketing guy. Love it. And not as a banker. But these cards here. I feel like in the past life, you were a marketing guy. I think you were.

48:37I think you were. That's actually even better. I'm going to use that instead. Yes. That's where this comes from, my past life. That's right. My future. so basically what we did here is we took all the all the companies i just referenced each one of them has their own card with a caricature on it with my same caricature guy that did the book with me i'm still upset i wasn't in your book yeah no you're maybe version two bro maybe two um and then all the valuation multiples and the idea here is to basically have it set up where like you've got a deck of cards i've got a deck of cards is it like that

49:07Matthew Januszek:top trumps game remember that so do you have that here top trumps we used to have it like So everyone used to have all their motorcycles and race. So you'd have to update these relatively frequently. So every quarter we'll update the cards and every quarter we'll update the report. But what this turns into is a way for companies to say, all right, let's think about how these companies can work together. So I got One World Spa. What do you got? Which basically? I have the Beauty Tech Group. Okay, so Beauty Tech Group or higher dose is another example. Could be doing distribution into One World Spa's ships, right?

49:41One World Spot could say, hey, after you get off this ship, we've got a deal where you can go into basic things. And we've got a 30-day membership for you to continue your workout recovery. It's like one of those brain games where you can... Yeah, it's just kind of like a business development, go around the room like an icebreaker. This is great. How do these companies work together? Just to get you thinking about, every time you meet somebody that's in a company in the halo sector, we're all targeting the same consumer. like this this this walled garden you know they're all going on same brands they're all you know buying the same types of brands they're all you don't want the next outdoor experience we are we have to wrap up because we're short on time but we want to make this we're gonna have you back we want this to be a broader conversation maybe get you on quarterly yeah to do to do a recap on the companies to do an update we could even play the game in the

50:35Matthew Januszek:where did you come up when did you come up with this game I like this idea we just woke up in the middle of the night we just got these today this has been a one year we've been working on this for a year I like the fact that it does connect things that you wouldn't typically connect and I would agree that that's a challenge with a lot of events that you go to and a lot of the conversations and we do our best to try and mix that up in the podcast but you can end up having the same conversations with the same people and I think this kind of is a nice way of like taking you outside of the box a little bit and the one thing to remember here in closing every one of these companies on this list is worth over 500 million dollars okay okay and it goes up to 90 billion dollars right so the marketing budget is not on that list exponential is not because they're under 500 million is on the the list as of march okay they'll probably go private and they'll be replaced by aura ring or whoop or somebody else yeah that comes through Strava.

51:34Strava. Yep. So we called it the Halo 52, primarily to do the car deck. And then maybe there'll be a Halo 104 one day.

51:41Matthew Januszek:But the marketing budget for these companies, you were saying, just to finish off. Just this billion dollars, just billions and billions of dollars that could be pushed into our legacy industry that is avoiding this industry because we're not communicating with them. And that's our job, to get them in the room. Well, Pete, great to have you on. I'd be curious to look at a private sector list of this as well. So you have public sector, because that would be awesome. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you guys. Natalia, FitTech Club, all the way from Germany, here in New York. What's top of mind after two days or three days in New York, Natalia?

52:17Yeah, Natalia from Germany. Well, I think the thing is that we're talking about pretty similar things in Europe and in United States, but from very different perspectives. like here since over 70 % of the population is obese obviously the topic of GLP-1 of obesity of fighting the epidemic of unhealthy so what's the percentage in Europe then it's 70 % but it's also not like 10 % it's also not 10 % it's probably half right we do know that the countries like Cyprus and Italy have the highest obesity rates for kids right and Cyprus and Italy Italy Italy yes

53:00Matthew Januszek:I had Russia was out there as well well it depends on if you see Russia as Europe or not right so we have a huge problem here but there's there's still no solution that anyone can offer because the system the healthcare systems and the fitness systems of each countries are very different and so when I come to the United States for me each time it's like oh my goodness there's so much cash in this market and so much willingness to move fast whereas in europe we're a bit slower but we're also trying to do this more organically and integrate the whole thing into how you're developing the healthcare and health ecosystem in combination with politics in combination with the private sector as well and it's quite funny that as you say like one of the most uh affluent countries in the world with the most advanced technology and one of the most advanced medical healthcare systems, and yet it's the most obese in the world.

53:56So that's a strange... But I think it comes down to... I think they're both related, right? So as an economy gets more advanced, as an economy gets wealthier, there are two things that you see happen. I mean, the first is birth rate goes down. So in the more developed countries, and the second is that obesity goes up because you're more sedentary, you're moving less, the knowledge worker capacity split as of manual labor workers goes higher, and all those things contribute to it. This is the burden of civilization. Yes. However, and the 70 % is probably based off of, like, people that don't meet physical activity guidelines.

54:35Obesity rate, obviously, is a little bit low, but for the first time, though, in 2025, our obesity trends were actually trending down for the first time as a result globally or no just the u.s okay just the u.s and that's really because of driven by largely by by glp ones um i also think that awareness and i love to get your perspective in europe but like here in the u.s there is one what you know social gathering may not need to include alcohol it could include other things um cbd-based supplements could just include water um so i think that that is socially now acceptable that if you want to have a drink that's okay but if you don't that's okay too then also the turnaround we talked about this the community centering around fitness and wellness like that's been a growing trend run clubs using the growth of high rocks i think finally it's awareness that people are now saying especially after the pandemic that i've got to get control of my health.

55:31Are you seeing that happen in Europe as well? No, I absolutely agree with you here. And I think you've touched upon so many points here that are super important. So on the one hand, we're having this young generation of people, let's say between 15 and 35, right, who are pretty unsure and insecure what's happening in the world, right? They're growing up amidst the whole crisis of AI, amidst the whole geopolitical crisis as well that we're seeing globally. And the only thing they can really control other bodies. So that's one of the movements that we're seeing in Europe as well, where, for example, in the UK, pubs have a huge issue.

56:07People stop going to pubs and start going to gyms and social events like Hyrex, whatever, right? The connection on the personal level is getting more and more important. You mentioned the pandemic, exactly, that's what's happening. We have the trend into the other direction where the personal touch, the personal connection, sitting here together and just having conversation has an impact on our hormone systems. So that's just a physical fact, right? And this is why we're seeing the dating events. People are, you know, just bumping the dating apps and going to the dating events, all single events.

56:39I think there's like one company which is called like Thursday Dating or something similar. Yeah. Right? Where each Thursday there's an event in a city where you only meet singles, right? And why are they doing this? Because they need the connection. And I feel this is what our industry, the fitness industry can also provide the new generations with the feeling of connection the feeling of being part of something bigger amidst the world that's just falling apart in front of our eyes that's what we feel when we're reading the headlines obviously that's not the only thing that's happening in the world and we're having like the fastest age of progress since the whole history of mankind correct but for our reptile brains it's super hard to grasp so we're falling back into the options where we seek connection was sickly foundation for our lives and that's what happening and that's why people are going going more into the fitness that's why people are trying to connect in person that's why they're trying to live the life they feel they deserve what have you seen or something

57:38Matthew Januszek:you've obviously had lots of conversations here what what what stood out to you coming from Europe that you're probably not seeing in Europe yet? Wow, that's a great question. I feel that things like light therapy is still absolutely not mainstream in Europe. And honestly, I have my doubts about it as well, because as soon as you have the first epilepsy case and someone just flips out because of this impact on your senses, you've got to be a problem. So the huge question on how this is going to develop because that can cause a medical condition. But again, I'm not a doctor, but this is just my first take.

58:22What I also think is interesting is that, you know, remember five years ago having connected equipment was something like a well. Today that's a must, regardless of how you want to do this. You can work with external sensors. You can, you know, build sensors into your own equipment, but it's kind of expected. But it also means that companies that are just offering hardware the old-school way could get an edge because they're now different. So that's just my assumption. This is kind of funny that we're going all the circles in the industry. And another thing that I feel is that's absolutely high here in the United States is longevity.

59:01I know it's also a bit of a critical topic. And in Europe, especially in Germany, for example, everything that we're doing is like we're trying to understand what kind of scientific foundation does this have because lots of it is absolute like snake oil and just do this and that and red light therapy and then you live for like 200 years perfect just pay the check and you're done that's about American approach right in Europe we do have different healthcare ecosystem let's speak about Germany for example you have the public health care insurance everyone has to be insured there's just no way you're not insured okay and in this case there are also some preventative and you're by the way longevity we call prevention Europe okay so there are also some just things like your gym your some kind of fitness courses whatever that you can get paid by your insurance but this is like for the known population the high network individuals are all absolutely on the same along on the same lines as here in the United States so they're willing to pay a couple thousand euros for a health checkup right and see what happens next but again that's probably five percent maximum the population so where is the middle where is this middle which we're addressing that needs

1:00:05Matthew Januszek:this most i don't know so in germany though like one of the things i always get i didn't go to fever this year but in previous years by week it's over here it's being called longevity and wellness but as a as a culture um with the i particularly in germany like the a lot of the treatments and even the technologies that we're seeing over here has been around for decades in germany and it's sauna? Well, yeah, sauna is a great one. Cold, cold plunge. And, and some of these, um, you know, even in Holland, like when I met my wife, we used to go to these, uh, basically spas where they have all different temperatures, cold plunges and families used to go there.

1:00:46Matthew Januszek:And it's, and it's, it's such a common thing. And, and so you go there and it's just like these companies have been doing it forever where here it's suddenly a new company that's coming out with something. So So, like, talk a little bit about that, you know, even though it's termed a little bit different, but how far back that goes and how almost like that's pretty normal for your grandparents to be doing stuff that the younger generation are just getting into at the moment here. Right. Well, I mean, the social wellness is absolutely a thing in the United States and also a thing in Europe. But mostly what I've seen has been in London, honestly.

1:01:22That's the easiest cultural transfer that we have towards Europe. I'm not sure if this is gonna work like in countries like Germany where the culture of soanas is so widespread. The first time I went to a German sauna I was shocked because they make you like undress completely. Right? If you're dressed, if you have any kind of swimsuit or whatever, you're not allowed to get in. It's like all are naked, men and women are mixed up and that's normal in Germany and you feel very uncomfortable as someone who is doing this for the first time. Okay?

1:01:51Matthew Januszek:And in the changing rooms, it's running all of them. Right. Right. So, but the question is, are people willing to pay for this if they've been doing this like for 10 bucks for like several hours session? I'm not sure. But the experience is different though, right? So the experience... Absolutely. And this is where, exactly. And that's what I think is the only chance for social wellness also to get spread in Europe. First of all, it's experience, as you said, right? It's the different packaging. It's different kind of expectations in terms of the service, right? And second, it depends on where you go.

1:02:21Like Vic status, yes, absolutely good chance. And second, of course, the Generation Z. Like the younger people that are willing to connect again in a different way. Combine this with dating, combine this with anything else, and you're in. But it's super hard to crack because Europeans are not used to paying that much for fitness as the Americans. Are you seeing, and there's really some trends in fitness itself, is Pilates still trending? Because when I was in London, just nine a couple weeks ago, I'm seeing more and more Pilates studios open up. I haven't seen that really in France or Germany or Spain yet as large as it is here.

1:02:57Do you think that this trend where Pilates is large in the U.S. and now the U.K. and Australia is going to happen to the rest of Europe as well? I think it's already doing this, right? And I think this trend will stick for a while. but and we're here we keep hearing that strength training is now number one and everyone needs to grow muscle because it's good for living longer it's good when you're you know losing weight whatever but what I'm also seeing is that Hyrux created the category for events where we're seeing more happening now so we know the techno gym has started their own run x events for which is the virtual racing there's a new event in Germany which is called pace race pace race by the founder of aesthetics that used to be three pandemic one of the you know competitions out there and this is pretty simple that's just running in the city and each laps is for each laps you have less time so whoever stays wins all right so pretty simple complex concept that just has had their first event in berlin with 1000 people and uh these kinds of events are going up and again what you mentioned before that's about the personal connection that's about being seen and show up yourself as a person as well.

1:04:11Matthew Januszek:It seems though like I always see a lot of similarities between America and the UK so it tends to happen here goes to the UK but I always saw a big sort of disconnect between the UK and Germany and Central Europe it was almost like Central Europe did its own thing and it was quite interesting to see that High Rocks actually went in reverse and it went from my perspective it seemed to start in Germany then it went to the UK now it's coming here and it's almost like a new thing in america where it's been going how many how long has it been around in germany would you say like 2019 i think yeah even even that the race the sort of what do they call it like competition racing we went to the uk and all the gyms are embracing it where here it's kind of it's not really happened in the same way it's unusual though yeah it is but it's it's unusual that it's really behind yeah because i i think gyms in a lot of ways felt like they didn't have to.

1:05:05It's because gyms in America had it easy, right? They had, there was limited capacity pre-pandemic. They had memberships flowing in. We had the highest penetration rate in the world. They didn't really have to try. So the gym was a commodity. They provided, their service was providing equipment, not really focused on outcomes. In Europe, gyms, you know, said, we're going to help you train for something. That's outcome-based. And I think that shift is happening here, which is why they've embraced finally, like really embraced. And I'm glad to see it because I think having that spot on the calendar is so important because it gives you a goal to train.

1:05:40Listen, not everyone gets married every year. Not everyone goes on vacation all the time. Those tips are the two reasons why you decide to get in the shape at a younger age. I'm getting married. I don't look good. My wedding. Or I'm going on vacation, right? And that's like, oh, time to get in shape. And you're only, you know, in this short training cycle. Now with High Rocks, you can have the defining and definitive moments throughout the year. And I think that that's powerful. Well, Natalia, it's been great to have you on. We're going to talk about your new role in a coming episode and lots more to come on that.