LIFTS Episode 89 - ClassPass Debate: Does It Help or Hurt Studio Owners? Jeff Bladt vs. Rachel Hirsch

23:42Listen, I think there's blame, if that's what you want to call it, plenty to go around and an education piece and so much. Like, I'm not pointing to ClassPass as really the problem here. And this is part of the advisory board that I keep pushing for that I think is incredibly important that can make us all better collaborators. But it is a little bit of a vicious cycle. When we started sending out consumer surveys, I have a newsletter that goes out to a couple thousand people. So, again, it's very niche, very biased sample size. But we sent out a survey asking for feedback on ClassPass and why people were using it.

24:15I posted on Instagram, so another 40 plus thousand people. And we got a lot of feedback. And the data most importantly showed that now people use ClassPass not because it's an aggregator and they want flexibility, but actually because it's an arbitration opportunity. They're able to arbitrage. They're able to price, get it for cheaper. and that's discounting on the value of our classes. And so in turn, we offer a few classes up on ClassPass. Students then think that$12 a class is actually what the class should be valued at instead of 36. They will never come back to pay at the studio, but we as studio owners become more and more reliant and it just becomes this sort of vicious circle.

24:59Is that ClassPass's fault? Partially for underpricing. Is it also the studio owner's fault for not managing it properly? Yes, partially. And so there's plenty of ownership to go around. But again, if we start to reframe this as a community and really collaborate and have open conversations, it's an easy fix. I really appreciate that. And just to add some perspective, when I look at ClassPass, SilverSneakers, Medicare Advantage have been heavily involved in advocacy to get the FID Act passed through. Think about all the things that we're doing here, right? The FIT Act, which unfortunately did not get pulled through.

25:32We're trying to provide access. We're trying to provide a tax-free benefit to enjoying fitness. That could be viewed as a discount. Silver sneakers, my parents leveraged their silver sneakers benefit to go to LA Fitness. They don't pay anything for LA Fitness, but they leveraged a Medicare Advantage benefit via silver sneakers to go and leverage a benefit. So they're getting the gym for free. You could view that as pushing the price down. I think at the same time, it comes down, think about my ABC fitness hat on, you know, we are excited to be working with ClassPass. And again, we gave it a lot of thought because Rachel, everything that you've said resonates 100 % with me.

26:13The way we were looking at it was, could we expand access such as that? If you want to use your ClassPass credits to maybe go join a crunch, maybe you are just going to boutiques, but you want to understand what is it like to go to a Crunch Fitness or an EOS or a Planet Fitness, along with boutiques. Could we afford someone that? At the end of the day, at least my vision and the vision of, I would say, a lot of my peers in the industry is focused on one thing. We are heavily focused on moving, improving health outcomes. Can we get more people under our tent? Can we be more inclusive, not exclusive?

26:47How do we do that? And in large ways, ClassPass, I think, has opened up a market for a lot of brands, candidly, that in the boutiques that I never would have heard of if it wasn't for ClassPass. I would not even have walked in a particular studio if it wasn't for ClassPass. And I'm in the industry, right? I'm not as tenured as Matthew or Jack, but I've been in the industry for about 15 years. I lead a couple of executive positions. I'm on advisory boards, yet I'm still coming across incredibly new creative brands that I would not have otherwise found without aggregators. And Jeff, I want to, you know, as you said on the other side of this marketplace and kind of really shaping how it works, you've heard both sides of it.

27:32Why should studios, and everything Rachel says, by the way, I've also validated, and that is a true sentiment. But why should studios not view ClassPass as a threat? How can they think about it as a growth partner? And I think the thing that I always think about is you don't want to get too dependent on it, but it's so hard, right? Once a consumer gets conditioned, the studio gets conditioned, you're looking at five empty beds in a Pilates, well, I could fill that up with ClassPass. Do you think ClassPass should do more to helping govern utilization and usage? And honestly, almost like turning it off to say, hey, you know what?

28:12At this point, you are over leveraging the benefit. We're going to pull it back. I want to maybe back up a little bit. You sort of were comparing ClassPass to the travel aggregators and you have delivery aggregation, you know, the booking platforms for restaurants. I think there's something that's sort of different about ClassPass. And sort of the frame with the travel has always been that the travel aggregators are in direct competition with Booking Direct, and they're in price competition with Booking Direct. And that's not something that ClassPass is designed to do. ClassPass isn't trying to front run the direct demand and send you the same person but for less.

28:51So the misconception is ClassPass is sending would-be full paid riders or attendees for less money. ClassPass is taking empty spots and filling up with someone new for some revenue. Now it's less. That's how we built a new audience. But there's not this direct competition. We've done a lot to protect direct pricing power. We put things in credits to allow studios not to have to do this pricing comparison. We don't take out billboards across the street from studios saying go for less. We don't market on those terms at all. We market on variety and bringing new people in. So there's a little bit of difference there.

29:22And I think the broad thing I want to - Just real quick, just to be fair though, consumers are doing the calculation in their head. consumers are doing that math and they'll do a lot of it's price discrimination sure but studios don't get to decide their floor you do your own math based on our 10 packs so like that is an important indicator but we're not trying to direct price compute we're doing as much as we can and it shows up in the data so one of the great things that happened when mind body and class pass came together is we could actually look at a decade of data across thousands of shared businesses businesses that were on ClassPass and left that were on MindBody, then joined ClassPass, every permutation you can imagine across the United States and in a lot of other countries as well.

30:04So huge robust data set going back years and years and years, pre-pandemic, post-pandemic. It allowed us to ask a lot of these questions, you know, how incremental is that ClassPass revenue? And the typical studio that we can look at in the MindBody data, and we've done ad hoc looks at studios not using MindBody, and we think it's representative, is that they see a 29 % increase in all-up revenue after joining ClassPass. And so that is additional revenue that they can use to make their studio better. And then we can look and say, are these studios doing better off ClassPass with their non-ClassPass revenue?

30:36So after you join ClassPass, what happens to your direct business? Are we cannibalizing users and it grows because we're sending you more people, but for less? We don't see that. The number of users that start on a direct relationship and move to ClassPass is the minimus. And for every user that we find that fits that pattern, we find two that start on ClassPass and BookDirect. But both of that is a small part of the overall economic relationship. So ClassPass is almost never taking someone who's going direct and turning them into a discount user. To the extent it happens, there's twice as many that start on ClassPass and fall in love with the brand.

31:09But overall, it's a 29 % increase in revenue. And then we can look at how those businesses perform. When we look at the businesses on MindBody that were on ClassPass this year and not, and what happened in Q1. And the businesses on ClassPass grew 10 % faster in their direct business. And so ClassPass use actually helps a business be better. Now, why do we think that happens? It gives them more money to invest. It allows them to support more class times, which benefits the whole community, not just ClassPass users. And it gives them great word of mouth when ClassPass users talk about the great workout they just had.

31:41They're primarily telling people that don't use ClassPass the book. And so the use of ClassPass doesn't just send incremental revenue from the ClassPass subscription. Time and time again in the data when we look, it actually makes the businesses stronger in their own direct business. And that's what we want. We want strong partners. We want growing businesses. Those are our best partners. I'm with you because I will back you 10 out of 10 times given during COVID, you guys gave those incredible, I'll call them grants slash loans to a lot of businesses in the LA region, at least I can vouch for.

32:10So again, like super here for what you're saying. I were not on MindBody, and I am a yoga studio in LA. So I am probably the end of one very specific spectrum and not indicative of states or globally in its entirety. So I totally appreciate that I come from a niche bias perspective. But I will tell you two anecdotes from the data set that I have, which again, vastly smaller and more niche. This month, we are off class pass, for lack of a

32:45ClassPass pricing comparative package just for the month. And so it would basically mean that the people that come to us or that via ClassPass would come only because of pricing, then they're able to come this month on this package without any sort of dollar financial change. We've had over 20 in two days buy this package who were previous ClassPass users. and so they're just basically indicating to us that they were only on class pass because it was cheaper and so it actually indeed was cannibalizing our business and again i'm that we that is two studios in yoga so specific i'm not saying it's indicative but that's the data set that i am

33:28Matthew Januszek:looking at i've got a quick question to jump in again i'm i'm a little bit of an outsider on this i'm probably more the consumer um question to rachel and jack that they both use it's like Like, who's winning or does the consumer win? So me, Matthew Januzek, I like to use boutique studios. I like to travel quite a bit. I'm in Europe and in the US. Am I winning as a consumer because I've got broad access to lots of different classes I didn't know about that Mo referenced? Am I getting better deals than I could probably do on my own? Am I saving time because somebody's brought this together for me?

34:05Matthew Januszek:I'm just curious, is the end user winning, which is why it's kind of driving a lot of these decisions? Or in the end, does the consumer lose? Just curious of how you guys sort of see that from a perspective. Sure. I mean, in the end, the consumer absolutely wins, no doubt about it. They have access to a whole ton of studios at reduced rates. I think that's one of the things that, as we've all sort of said, it has opened up the market, It has brought a lot of new clients to boutique fitness. I think Jeff said it, half the people that join ClassPass are new clients. So from a studio perspective, that's a good thing.

34:44It's brought, certainly in Bangkok, in my market, which is quite an immature, young industry, it's brought a whole ton of people into doing the kind of training that we do. So I think from the consumer's perspective, it's excellent. It's an excellent product. I mean, I have ClassPass and I use it when I go abroad. I think, you know, through the Fit Guide, we've seen that a lot of studios, it's quite hard to book. You go on the website, you go on their socials and there's no schedule there. And it's often not a great experience, to be honest, whereas you go on ClassPass and the technology is good.

35:12It's a smooth experience. So I think from a consumer, I haven't heard any consumers moaning, put it that way. I've heard studio owners not happy, but consumers all seem happy. I mean, just pushing back for a moment on some of the things that Jeff said there, I think, you know, you said, I think the way you described what it should be, I think is kind of the sort of ideal theory and the way that it should be used. And I don't think this is ClassPass's fault, but I think you need to talk to, or we need to address sort of how many studios end up using it, which is they end up releasing too many slots.

35:42They don't use it in the way that it's intended. And then it does certainly take the clients, I think, that otherwise would be paying more. Now, again, I don't think that's ClassPass's fault. But I think to just say, look, we're just filling those spots that otherwise wouldn't be filled, I think is not 100 % correct. And I don't really expect ClassPass to maybe get that message out. I kind of see that more as my role through Fitness Business Asia. We talk about how to make the most from the ClassPass relationship. But would you concede, Jeff, that if ClassPass isn't used smartly, as Mo said, you know, could there be some kind of checks?

36:13I don't expect or think ClassPass should do that really. But you can see that if it's not used well and not used correctly, it could certainly be cannibalized. And if they do release other slots and too many slots at a low price and their base rate is not good, the minimum rate they get from ClassPass, of course, that could take then clients that were willing to pay more, correct? We don't see that really in the data. Again, for studios that use MindBody, you will guarantee the revenue is incremental, that the flow of any small amount of cannibalization is more than outweighed. We'll pay that out 2x.

36:46And it pretty much has happened. Like I can count on one hand the number of times you've ever paid a studio out and said, yep, you're the edge case. And so, you know, 99 point whatever percent of the time, it just doesn't exist that this cannibalization fear materializes. And we built tools to solve the problem of releasing too many spots. We never want to put a ClassPass user in a spot you could sell direct. And for any partner that's using sort of software to manage their business, we will integrate with them. We're working to do that with ABC right now. And that allows us to predict that direct demand and get out of the way.

37:21And we've had really sophisticated partners turn that tool on, long time sort of skeptical of it, and actually see it reduce the number of spots on ClassPass and improve their direct business. And so we build tools to do this. I think an optimized partner should be using SmartSpot. That's the name of the automated inventory release tool. It's designed with the objective function of never put a class pass person in a spot that would go direct. But if your studio is chronically sort of has excess capacity, it varies by genre, you know, machine-based Pilates, very capacity constrained. But for other ones, we've not seen this idea of, oh, we have too many class pass people and therefore our direct business is hurting.

38:01It just doesn't really show up in the data. Now, studios that are hurting in general, class pass isn't magic it doesn't help them turn around we look at the star ratings for studios before they join class pass if we can get that off you know google or something and studios with a low star rating before they join class pass tend to get a low star rating on class pass from class pass people they're responding to the sort of same studio dynamic and those studios don't do great and when they leave class pass they don't stay in business as long so struggling studios class pass isn't going to turn that around and sort of you know back to my original point you know i know it might rain hollow, but we truly want healthy partners.

38:39We want partners that have a direct business, they're putting on a great class, they're investing in growing, that are building a great community, a welcoming place. We want to send our users into those types of studios. And so we never want a studio to fully rely on ClassPass. And if a studio can sell out all on its own, then they obviously don't need us on that extreme as well. Before we wrap up, I want to touch on an important point, which Rachel brought up earlier, which is women in leadership, and as representative in this panel, you raise an important point, Rachel, at the top of the podcast that I'd like to incorporate in this discussion, even though it wasn't the core theme.

39:14Women make up the vast majority of the boutique fitness users, yet they are very often misrepresented and underrepresented rather in leadership. And the numbers tell the story. So women account for about 70 to 80 % of boutique class participants, especially when you look at Pilates, bar, yoga, and cycling. Yet according to URSA's report, which we had URSA or HFA on, the Women Leadership Report, fewer than 30 % of executive roles across the fitness industry are held by women. And that, I think, is an issue. It's actually worse on the investment side. I'm an investor. Rachel, I know you're an investor.

39:51It's pretty gloomy. Only around 2 % of venture funding in wellness and fitness goes to woman-led companies, despite woman being the primary consumer base. And I think because of that mismatch, you've got such a gap there, you naturally have blind spots, which is to be expected because we are not driving to remove that. People shaping models in business and partnerships and a lot of other strategies don't typically reflect the demographics of actual users driving the market. Even on this podcast, you heard about me talk about my experience, Matthew talked about when he traveled internationally, where men taking boutique fitness, we do not represent the vast majority of users.

40:37And you also pointed out that smaller boutiques like yourself, many of them are founded and run by women, are often underrepresented in companies such as ClassPass that allocates visibility and pricing. So that would amplify the challenges here. So Rachel, question for you here. Just given your involvement, I'd love to know a bit more about the 2 % Club. Do you think women's underrepresentation in leadership is one reason that small boutiques, female entrepreneurs in particular, are at a disadvantage in the model that we're talking about today? It's a good question. I think it's an and, and a lot of ands at that, as to the true cause and issue at hand, but I can speak from my experience of saying part of the reason I would call it ringing the bell or however you want to describe, you know, the conversations that I've been having around ClassPass is because of exactly what you're saying.

41:31I want us to be at the table. I want to find a way that it really makes sense, that it can be collaborative, that it can be supportive because so many of these small businesses are run by young single moms or whomever it may be. Like, let's build them up and give them the chance. And maybe they need more tools than others, but let's give them that opportunity. And so I don't know, maybe I'm coming at it from an incredibly biased standpoint, probably am. But I think that that is the longevity, call it, of the fitness space is being able to support some of the people who maybe have been historically underrepresented, except not on the consumer side.

42:11And that gap is something that I think is advantageous for all of us to fill in this conversation. I think one question I'd like to ask the panel here, including my co-host, is what steps do you think the industry can take to better elevate women's voices in leadership and decision-making? I can tell you that I'm involved with the HFA and advocacy. I know we proactively seek out women leaders. I think they do. That voice and perspective, to your point, Rachel, it's so important as we think about fitness and boutique, where women play such a critical role. But Jeff, would love to hand it off to you.

42:47I know of many women leaders at Playlist. But what do you think we could do as an industry to better elevate women's voices in leadership? Oh, boy. Great question. I think ClassPass was maybe privileged that we had a female founder. And so she was very attuned to sort of this from a very early age. So I joined a company. And when I joined, I think the leadership team was roughly half women. And it's remained half women, even with people turnover over the eight years. We have great female leaders on our board. So I think, you know, despite me being the face of this right here, like we actually have quite a strong sort of history with female leaders at Playlist.

43:31And I agree. I think I meet with a lot of owners and chief strategy officers of major brands. I meet with a lot of smaller brands. And it's a lot of men I meet with. And that's sort of weird. And our user base is largely female, you look at in the class. So fully agree with the problem statement that's been put out there. How do you get women elevated? I would love to have Playlist and ClassPass be part of that. But, you know, I think part of that's, you know, listening to your point, Rachel, like, it's clear, you know, just hearing you speak, and I read a lot of your posts coming into this that, you know, part of what's missing here is the communication, like I can come in with stats, and that's great.

44:07But, you know, that's not the same thing as having a dialogue. And so, and, you know, there's always this tension, we deal with 10s of 1000s of partners, how do we make each one feel treasured, but that's not an excuse. And so, you know, we're very much open to that, you know, dialogue. The stats are really part of it. It's a trust-based industry. So. Yeah, I actually really value and appreciate you saying that and really hearing because the 2 % Club is a group of a couple hundred wellness leaders, operators, founders that are 99 % female in our group. And we have these conversations all the time.

44:41And there are a few of us that are super keen to have conversations with you. And so I appreciate, as the owner of empowered, I am an absolute no one. But as the founder, co-founder of the 2 % Club and someone that is actively involved in these conversations, like we want to appoint leaders to have these conversations with you so that you don't need to have the millions of conversations. And we're raising our hands saying we want to be ambassadors to really come and collaborate with you. You can reach out to me. I'm happy to come and listen as soon as this week. So yeah. Thank you. Matthew, anything to comment on the last point?

45:18Matthew Januszek:I think a couple of things. From a class pass perspective, and I'm just sort of as an observer, but I would say it would make sense for any business to really get in touch with who their consumers are. And I probably wouldn't see any business would discriminate necessarily between male and female. And I would just say, if their audience is represented by female, it would clearly make a lot more sense to just figure out the challenges that their clients are having and really dive into that. Similar thing to our business, I work with my mother, who's sort of co-founded the business with me, my sister, who's a real leader in the business, my wife, my sister-in-law, and my daughter's coming up.

46:05Matthew Januszek:And I think, so for me, I'd rather employ females and males for so many different reasons um they're just a lot better at many things um i i think the challenge when it comes to this and again you know not not really sort of discriminating by um gender but but just i think for women um there's just a lot less out there where they can have similar people that are guiding leading that are not men and i think probably you know be good to expand a little bit racial in terms of what the two percent club is but i you know i'd love nothing more of it for my wife and and you know she's she's pretty proactive and searches out a lot of these groups and gets involved in women that are strong and powerful and smart and and that guide her and and you know it's the same thing for my sister and my daughter it's just just looking to see if I to find places where they can gravitate with people that have got similar issues you know they're they have husbands and they have children and they have jobs and that sort of stuff which is very different to all of us guys you know we we just have one thing to do and and that's it so I so I think uh you know just in terms of an industry I think it's just the more people probably like yourself Rachel that that are out there and and saying hey look I understand you I speak your language and and here's a path I think we'll probably see a lot more of that and and the only reason I don't think we've seen as much as what we could do is there's probably not as many of those places that are easy to find than what there are with some of these men's groups tell us about a 2 % club?

47:38The 2 % club is a group of a couple hundred women. I call it everything from the original CMO of Barry's Bootcamp to the founder of fitness softwares like Walla. It is an incredible group of collaborative women who help everything from fundraising to, you know, building out your second studio to it's all wellness. So it's actually not just fitness, but we definitely lean heavy in fitness. And we love having people involved. We love having even men come to the table. It's everyone coming to the table to collaborate, but it's just a safe space for us to learn, fundraise, collaborate, and really lean on each other.

48:16And it has come to be such a joy in my life. So very grateful to be a part of it. And hopefully your wife, sister, daughter, all of them will join. Jack, do you want to bring us home? Yeah, sure. I mean, yeah, just to add to that, I mean, for me, it's quite easy because Fitness Business Asia, we interview boutique fitness studio owners, majority of which are female. So I think most of our guests have been female. So it's been quite easy for me on that platform to elevate female voices. And I think if we continue to do that in the industry, then that can inspire other women and hopefully you get this positive cycle.

48:49So yeah, a little bit easier for me, I think, because there's so many fantastic female studio owners. And yeah, I interviewed one this morning, Linda Tang from WeBar that went out on Five Star Fitness Podcast today. Again, an amazing story from Singapore. I guess, yeah, final thoughts. Should we do that, boys, to wrap things up? One of the things that we love to do on Lyft, I know Rachel and Jeff, you're new to the podcast. If you'd love to wrap up with our final thoughts of the episode. So Rachel, I'd love to start with you. Do you have any final thoughts from what we discussed today? Really grateful for the conversation.

49:20I think the more we can have these types of conversation, the better the industry can become. And I'm looking forward to all the future collaboration that will inevitably happen. Jeff, how about you? Grateful to come on and be part of the conversation as well. And, you know, ClassPass is, we're not going anywhere and we want to be the best partner possible. And, you know, I said it before, I'll say it again, strong, successful businesses with their own clientele are our favorite partners, not because we want to grow against them, we want to grow with them. And so, you know, happy to keep that conversation going and really excited to see what happens next.

49:54Anything new that you picked up from the podcast this evening, your time? Yeah, I think in terms of final thoughts, as Jess said, ClassPass aren't going anywhere. And I think that's a really important thing for studio owners to recognize. So that means we need to really make the most out of the platform. And I think the best way to do that is double down on creating an incredible experience. What we've seen at the Fit Guide is we too often miss basic service standards that are very commonly done at the world's best hotels, the world's best restaurants. We're not doing them. And then some of these same studios, of course, are going to be complaining about ClassPass.

50:26People are going there instead. ClassPass isn't going anywhere. So create the best experience you possibly can, the best business you can, the best community you can. Treat, I would say, ClassPass clients when they come through the door exactly the same as your normal clients. Give them that same great experience. But have some other things such as community events, maybe some other little extras that your members get that ClassPass members don't. Don't release all of your slots onto ClassPass. So definitely have a few peak slots that you can keep off the platform just for your members, I think is crucial.

50:55Use ClassPass in the way it was intended. and if you do all these things you don't need class pass and then you can use class pass really in the way that i think it should be used and that jeff has said that it's been designed to be used i think if you don't do that despite what jeff is saying i think some clubs do get into a trap where all of their slots are on class pass they're losing their members and i think that's something that studios need to really make sure it doesn't happen to them final final thought from me is i think a lot of things were left unsaid today i think this is very surface level but very very important.

51:24I'll be digging into this a lot, lot deeper in terms of what studios can do, really a step by step to make the most out of the platform. I am a fan of ClassPass, it has been good for us. But I do think in the wrong hands, it can definitely be bad for studios. So I'll be doing a lot of education on Fitness Business Asia, but it will certainly be relevant to any studio owners anywhere.

51:43Matthew Januszek:I'll echo your comments. I remember being on a panel a few years ago with Anthony Geisler when he was at Expo. And I'm not sure whether this is still his opinion now, but he seemed to have a real discipline around ClassPass. I think for quite some time, I don't think they were even using it. And I'm sure that slightly changed. But there was a real, there seemed to be from the panel a discipline in terms of where they use ClassPass and where they don't. But the emphasis really was on building their own marketing strategies direct to their individual consumers. And I would guess being as class class is still relatively new and there's still a lot of people that come into the industry that's passionate about fitness but may need help and may need to be part of these groups that both of you are involved in where there's education around how to reduce the risk within your business.

52:40Matthew Januszek:I think it's the same in any business where once you have a particular client that represents two large a percentage, there's a risk there. And so it's sort of managing that risk accordingly. And I think the other thing is, as Jack said, and it was quite the focus of the conversation last week with Michael Ramsey from Strong Pilates is really just putting a lot of emphasis onto the quality of the product. And obviously that does take time. But if you've really got an exceptional product that's better than everything else out there, whether it's the whole experience, the people that greet the consumers, just really focusing on that, then I think naturally that will start to raise you from I think what's probably a lot of similar people offering a very, very similar product.

53:35Matthew Januszek:And the only key differentiation is really separating themselves on price, which probably isn't where a business wants to end up. Mo, final thoughts? As we close, and I'm just listening to all of you, so I've got the benefit of going last. I keep on coming back to moderation. And in fitness, we know that too much of anything isn't good for you. If you overdo, hit, if you outrun, if you run too much, if you lift heavy, you know, only lift heavy, don't focus on recovery. Too much of anything is just not good for you. But when you work together, so cardio, strength, recovery, stretching, all the things, you tend to make progress.

54:13And I've had the pleasure of working out with Jack and Matthew, we still got to get a work at it. We have not, I mean, this has been a couple of years we still have not worked out together. I think the same is true for ClassPass. So I think if a studio leans in too heavily, as Jack mentioned, it could be unhealthy. Compresses margins, cannibalizes memberships. If the studio ignores it entirely, like what it suggested by Tonehouse, I think they'll frankly miss out on new audiences, new trial funnels, and even missing out on corporate wellness reach if you skip even the welcomes of the world. In moderation, again, just like how I treat my fitness, use strategically with the right inventory, with the focus on converting trial users to members, I think ClassPass could be a valuable tool.

54:51If it wasn't, I wouldn't be investing and bringing ABC into it. So to wrap up, the lesson for boutique operators is not to avoid ClassPass at all costs. I think it is to treat it like a supplement, not a substitute. Just like fitness, the right balance makes all the difference. So Matthew, with that, we'll wrap it up.

55:11Matthew Januszek:Yeah, thank you very much. Jack, thanks for pulling this together. Jeff and Rachel, thank you very much for your contribution. If you enjoyed this conversation, we've got a Lifts page on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear your thoughts. If you've got any comments for anyone within the panel today, then please share it there and we'll continue the conversation afterwards. So thanks very much for listening and I hope you enjoyed this episode.

55:39Thank you.