Bigger Match For Man City or Liverpool?

26:01I think he knows from me and I think he sees himself as a number 10. Like I said, I feel that his key strength from the number 10 is to find number 9 positions and that he has this hunger and determination to score. This is what we see now for Real Madrid. And hopefully we see it next week for us. All right, so just trying to make some sense of that. Nadam, he's saying that Bellingham is a 10 and Foden's like a 9, 9.5 or 10, but must play centrally then. So is he hinting that they probably can't play together?

26:38Yeah, I guess so And then obviously when you add in one Harry Kane In there as well, that also changes the dynamic I think Harry Kane we've seen in recent times Especially for Bayern, he's doing really well when people Will stay up the field as he starts to Drop back in himself, so I think it's Almost the case of figuring out which players will actually Complement each other as opposed to go against Kane who's going to essentially be starting Every game for England for the foreseeable future But yeah, I would agree that I think for Bellingham and for Foden to be playing together as those 10s and those attacking midfielders, I think you saw a little bit of that last summer at the Euros.

27:11I don't know, it didn't really work as well, as we hoped that it would do. I think Foden wasn't as best for the majority of that tournament, and Bellingham obviously had his moments, but he was an England side that was still lacking creativity somehow. So yeah, I think he's hinting to that. I think he knows their strengths, but I think he'll also know the nature of the games, where it's one or the other, or potentially. you know like a Phil Foden who probably end up being the guy who's coming in off one side of the field whether it's on the right or the left so yeah I don't think many people would see them playing together and in some ways that's because you've got one Declan Rice you at the moment you've got Elliot Anderson you know those two in midfield seem to be the key for England going forward so yeah I think he's kind of said what you've alluded to there.

27:50Are these friendlies or I thought yeah England are qualified. Yeah but it's qualifiers it's World Cup I'm looking at it They're playing Thursday, November 13th. Serbia, World Cup qualifier. World Cup qualifier against Albania. So it's not friendlies. Might as well be friendlies. Because I don't care where he plays, Phil Foden and Jude Bellingham. Do you think that's Jude Bellingham's best position as a number 10? Yes. But they beat... I mean, he can smile all he wants. Thomas Tuchel and all this guff about England and going to major tournaments.

28:23Let's judge it when they get to the World Cup. because they're playing Serbia, as I mentioned, and then they're playing Albania. They beat Serbia in Serbia 5-0. I mean, Southgate did the same. Hodgson did the same. Most of the previous managers all did the same. They battered the also runs most of the time in the group stages. And then, for whatever reason, Southgate got the closest, but they came unstuck in major tournaments. so I don't care against Serbia what he does with Phil Foden and Jude Bellingham it's what he's going to do when he plays Italy, Spain Brazil France all these teams even Croatia when Southgate got outfoxed by the Croatian manager in the semi-final they were getting outdone in the middle of the park and we all sat watching it going they're getting outdone in the middle of the park and he did nothing and so that's going to be the crux of the matter for England and where Foden plays if he plays where Bellingham plays, all this sort of stuff that other England managers are having to deal with, it's not how he deals with it really here.

29:33And you might say, well, he learned a little bit there, but that's not the same as playing France up against it, playing Brazil or Argentina in a semi-final or a quarter-final. It's a complete difference. So it's nothing more now for England than, they are, I suppose, friendlies, but they're World Cup qualifiers, but they're nothing more than just a run out. And quite frankly, they're just the most boring games on the planet. Yeah, it can be boring, but you have to prepare the World Cup. You have to prepare the World Cup. And in order to prepare the World Cup, you have to prepare the players. And you have to make decisions.

30:09And you don't have to compromise. I think Bellingham, Foden and Kane cannot play all together. It's impossible. It reminds me of in 1996-1998 when Eime Jacquet had to make choices between Cantona and Zidane. He offered Zidane the position of striker. I think Cantona denied it. But it was clear for Eime Jacquet that he had to make a choice between two fantastic players. And he had decided to put Zidane. He didn't compromise. I think at a certain point, the coach will have to decide whether it's going to be Bellingham and Foden. because against those big teams, Spain, France, Argentina, maybe, Portugal, they can't play like that.

30:51It's impossible. It's too open. Was Cantona in the squad? No, he wasn't because he didn't want to play. He didn't want to play in 98. He refused to play as a striker. So he decided to not take him as a substitute because he knew that it would be maybe an issue. But can you imagine Cantona not being picked in 98 when he was the king of the king in England? So it's sometimes a hard decision, but you have to make sure that your team works. And it works the way you want it to work. And I think with Bellingham, Foden and Kane, it's hard to make it work, especially defensively. So we are, what are we?

31:34How many months? Seven months? Six months. I would imagine he's got a fair idea what he wants to do. I don't think Wallop in Serbia or Albania or any of the other teams might have been Latvia, I can't remember I don't really think that Frank's saying you're preparing the World Cup I think he knows pretty much what he wants to do, what he's got to hope is that he has a problem that Bellingham is fit and playing well for Real Madrid, that Foden's form his trajectory continues to go in the right way because he lost his way for quite some time, for whatever reasons I don't know, but he was a heck of a player, incredible player week in, week out and then it sort of went away, I think that's the bigger issue for Thomas Tuchel I think making sure, like any manager you can figure out and you probably already have what you're going to do with these players, what's more of a concern is when they go into a major tournament are all my key players, are all my big players fit, are they all in good form and are they all up for it and then you figure it out from there, that's the crux of it, I don't think you have to worry about at this moment in time, can he play, can he they all know where they can play.

32:42They have to make sure they're in tip-top shape going into America, or North America here. Because if you're not, if you've got four or five guys that are not tip-top and they're off form, England have got no chance. Not that I think they have a great chance at the moment. They have a chance, I suppose. But if they have four or five of those guys off colour, they've got absolutely no chance to compete properly in this tournament. Are you looking at me as if I'm a bit angry today? I know. I thought you'd be more relaxed, you know, fresh off holiday, a bit more tan. Not really, no. No, no. It must have been the crocodile.

33:16No, it was an alligator. That's great. Anyways, for more Three Lions chat throughout the international break, make sure to check out our YouTube channel. And while you're there, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Smalls here. If you're heading into summer without a medical emergency kit, you're taking a risk most people don't think about until it's too late. Summer colds can turn into sinus infections that last weeks, ruining your perfect vacation getaway. And when you're traveling, finding a doctor and a pharmacy, it's stressful. That's why I ordered a medical emergency kit. It's like having an urgent care and a pharmacy at home.

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35:28All right. Well, we're into the business end of the NWSL season. Here are the quarterfinals this Sunday. Casey Curran, who have been absolutely brilliant up against our Ali Krieger's Gotham FC. But switching focus to the U.S. men's national team, Mauricio Pochettino put out his roster for the upcoming international break. A couple of big omissions, no Christian Pulisic, no Weston McKinney, no Chris Richards. They're going to be staying with their clubs. But Gio Reyna and Joe Scali are a sight for sore eyes. They have been included. and I'm sure that was a big talking point on the latest edition of Football Americas.

36:04It dropped last night, so it's available now. Cristina Alexander, Hercules Gomez, and our Shaka Hissop, who worked a double shift yesterday. He had to put up with me and Craig and then go and do another show. What a man. What a man from Manland. All right, let's talk about Chelsea, shall we? Look at this graphic. Now, Chelsea drew midweek with Karabag in Europe. They're away at Wolves this weekend, but this graphic shows that Enzo Maresca, or they're at home rather, and Enzo Maresca making so many changes that he's come under some criticism, but the stats don't lie. He's made more changes this season than any other coach, but have a listen to what he's recently said about his rotations.

36:49I think in this moment football is a bit different compared to years ago in terms of physicality and intensity. For me personally, it's impossible to play with the same players, 65 games in one season, Champions League, Premier League. And you cannot say, yeah, but why years ago was possible? Because it was different football. It was not so physical. I played for 20 years. It was not so physical. Now change. So you need to rotate. This is my personal view. And I think you need to do that if you want to see a season like a marathon. Then when you are in February, when you are in March, that is the last sprint, probably you have to think in a different way.

37:31But at the moment, I think you have to think like a long race. Frank, what did you make of what Enzo Maresca had to say? Of course, he says he has no choice pretty much but to rotate, especially when the games are coming thick and fast. but is this becoming a problem for him? I still have some issues to compare generations, but I think our generation and the football we were playing was more violent. I don't know in terms of physicality how you put it, because that was very physical. That was very demanding. The field, the pitches were in the same state that we can see nowadays. the referees were very open-minded, I would say, especially in England.

38:18That was a war every game. So hearing nowadays that it's more physical, maybe because it's more open in the middle of the park, they run more. Is that the physical aspect of the game to run more? I'm not sure it is. The intensity that you put, I'm sorry, I'm bored watching games 17 % of the time because it's so boring. It's so slow. It's so tiki-taka. Yeah, they don't touch the ball. They go around. Whatever it can be. But really, to compare what I see before and what I used to see like 15, 20, 25 years ago, I don't see where we can say it's more physical. Now, it's hard with Chelsea to know because you have lots of injuries to say, you know, that you don't need to change players.

39:02But he likes to do that. He always had two teams. And he did that last season. And he had a team for the European campaign. and another team for for for the premier league so he's used to that and i'm sorry uh against garabac it didn't work it didn't work because it was too much because some players have not enough experience in that level to uh to compete even against carabac um and because it it doesn't put the level up so that was a mistake it's for me tries to find any uh some excuses but it doesn't work with me. Here's the crux of the matter, right? Go on, give us the crux. The crux of the matter is you've got bigger squads now.

39:43Frank's talking about when we played 25, 10, 50, whatever it is. So you can argue to your ballooner face whether it's more physical or not, but the fact is that they've got twice the size of squads now and everybody understands that you have to rotate. So your job is to make the right rotation at the right time with the right players in order to, when it comes to February, March, April, that you're actually in contention for things. There's no point in making seven changes and you lose games and then come February, everybody can run 100 metres in 10 seconds, but it's too late. You can't win the title.

40:27Yeah. So his job is not to complain whether it's too physical or not. His job is to make changes when they need to be made, not just blanket throwing seven. We sit here week after week talking about how inconsistent Chelsea are. Well, guess what? If you're going to make seven changes every time, then you're going to be inconsistent. So you have to figure it out that you're maybe changing three. And then the next week it's three different ones. And then that way that you're, you know, they've got more staff, they've got more computers, they've got more data. So don't complain. figure it out and work it out how it suits you best instead of just just complaining and what it was and what stevie didn't say and with craig and stevie and i we started we are only two substitutes two there are how many five six seven every game almost you can change the whole team you know come on stop complaining you know make them run make them fight i don't know whatever you know but i'm fed up to hear that nobody talked about rotation when people couldn't really rotate when Stevie's Liverpool were winning correct me if I'm wrong but the Champions League called the European Cup they played in the midweek still played in the League Cup still played in the FA Cup they still won still competed they were tired couldn't rotate because they didn't have the squad when Man United won the treble in 99 with Ferguson's team wasn't a hell of a much rotation but they were successful there was no grass in the field hardly back then particularly in the Premier League, you were running through a trough.

42:03There's a counter-argument to what Maresk is saying here, is never have the players been fitter, never have the players been more looked after, never have the players had more help, and yet never have the players had more excuses. There's gremlins in the back, gremlins, gremlins, gremlins, sports scientists, he can't play, can't play, can't play, nonsense, absolute nonsense. I don't care how many changes Enzo Moreska makes. He can make 300 changes between now and this season. I couldn't give a toss. He's only going to be judged on results, on where Chelsea finish, on how successful they are, and whether he'll keep his job or not.

42:45So he can make changes. I don't care. You make changes, you win. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. And he can come out and say all he wants, right, about the game being more physical and this. Listen, we could argue about that and debate it for a week. All right, there's no doubt the game has changed, but there's no doubt the pitches are better. There's no doubt the players are pampered a lot more. There's no doubt they understand more about fitness and how to keep players fit, right? But there is also no doubt that there are people behind the scenes, all these elite football clubs, just telling managers and coaches what players can't do.

43:21He can't do this. He can't do that. He can't play three games. He can't. That was never a problem before. and you've got injuries now, you had injuries then. It's all going to boil down to not how many changes he makes, but how many good results he gets. Now he can do it either way, A, B, C or D, doesn't matter. Liverpool last year didn't make many changes, particularly at the start of the year, six months, and they rolled away with the Premier League, did all the hard graft. And okay, maybe it came back to haunt them a little bit near the end of the season, that's getting the balance right. But, you know, we can listen to his quotes, he can say what he wants.

44:04At the end of the year, we will not talk about his changes. We will talk about where they've finished, how successful they have been, or how unsuccessful they have been, and whether Enzo Moreska will stay in the job. But there is absolutely no doubt there are too many people behind the scenes now telling managers what players can't do, rather than a manager understanding what a player can do. And that, I think, is to the detriment of some of the performances because they have the leeway to go back into the well and bring players from the squad. Never had that before. And guess what? It wasn't a major problem for a lot of these guys.

44:42Well, let me go to Nadam because Nadam is of the younger, more pampered generation of footballers. Nadam, where do you stand in all of this? And also, given the fact that after that draw with Karabag, Enzo Mareska sort of hinted that he also has to deal with these rotations and do them because of his team going all the way in the Club World Cup. Yeah, listen, I've never felt younger than at this point in the show in my five years working. I know it! Never have I felt younger. Because listening to everything that the boys are saying, I don't necessarily disagree with it because the pitches were worse back in the day.

45:18there's a sense of physicality which was definitely there back in the day and for myself, starting in the early 2000s retiring in 2020, I saw some of the changes come across and to sort of bail out Maresco a little bit here his words and stuff were coming because of a critique that Wayne Rooney put towards him which said that he made too many changes so him just coming out, he's not necessarily seeking sympathy, he's almost trying to give an explanation from his side of things and some of those changes that Chelsea have had in recent weeks and last month or so, it's because someone like Lavia's been in and out, someone like Liam Galat's been in and out, they've had centre-halves be in and out with injury and so on.

45:52So some of those changes in some ways at times have been enforced, but if you look, there's still a core spine that exists within that side who he really trusts and he plays every single time, whether it's a Fernandes, you know, it's like Caicedo, those types of players. So yeah, to talk about my side of things, I remember when the Premier League changed from my perspective and it was the time, to be honest, when Gareth Bale was at Spurs and he was really, really performing to a higher level. And if you remember, for the style of play that he had, he was so fast he was so direct and he could just keep going and keep going and keep going and at that stage there we used to wear the gps vest and so on and what they noticed was that his high intensity running was somewhere between like 1 ,000 and 2 ,000 meters in a game which was so far ahead of most players so far ahead of the average player and as time passed they started to say to players you need to have this capacity to be able to do that and what Maresco was alluding to there was the intensity because it is about the premier league these days is about the number of sprints you can do how many can you do can you repeat them can you be doing later in the game so the intensity did change across the years and the expectation changed from that standpoint so now a slur that you can give to a team is like West Ham a few weeks ago you know West Ham they're slow so people are still covering the same distances they did from when the boys were playing and when say I was playing but there's certain aspects whereby you have to sprint more and that's the intensity that you're speaking about but yeah I get what I get what the guys are saying because that's their generation this is something that they've lived through but things have changed across the way and I've got to mention as well from a Man City perspective when they were at their absolute peak say 3, 2, 3, 4 years ago Guardiola at the start of the season would always be making 3 or 4 changes every game and his whole purpose was when he gets to the end of the season not that many of the players are in a position to where they're redlining they're on the verge of breaking down and it also allows the players within the squad to have that sense of still being involved so that when the end of the season they're as ready as the next person so when the 2-3 changes are happening every game and you know you're still winning it doesn't really matter and we sort of praise squad depth or we could talk about the other side of it we say Ange Postacogli when he was at Spurs and he was being people were saying he's running Van de Ven and Romero into the ground trying to bring them back too soon these guys are suffering why won't you make changes and so on so there are two opposite ends of the spectrum and I respect what the guys have said but like I said the people involved in the Premier League now they have the play they hold the players to a to a different sort of like I want to say physical standard I'm talking about that running standard and I think that's what Maresca sees on a day-to-day basis and the effect that it can have.

48:13When I left Celtic to go to Derby in 1999, Derby, right, smaller club, terrible team at the time, fighting relegation. You know, Jim Smith was the manager, he's no longer with us. He was old school, Jim, old school. But guess what he had? He had pro zone. Back in 99, pro zone, it was measuring all the players' training, it was measuring all the players in a game. And on Monday morning, we'd sit down in a meeting room and he'd go through the pro zone with his coaches and the players. 99. We understood what running was then. and we understood what intensity. It didn't just tell you how far you run, it told you the intensity there.

48:45It told you a lot. Now, is it enhanced now and more enhanced? Yes. But we had technology, even in 99, even at Derby, even with an old school manager and the bald eagle, Jim Smith. But guess what? There are two things in football. There's a change now. There's good players, there's average players, and there's bad players and the good players don't make an excuse for the running the good players run at the correct times the good players don't need to be told where their high intensity runs are and what and i get all this technical stuff i understand it but not the basics stay the same good players and average players and when you're putting average players in the team you generally get average results you can put bands on and you can measure the data and you You can do all you want.

49:40But that never changes. The pitch size roughly never changes. The goals stay the same. And there's good players and there's bad players. And that is the bottom line here. Have I confused the situation? No. No. Never. Craig confused anybody. Did he mention the Club World Cup? That's exactly what I was going to come to you on. Do you see that actually affecting Chelsea now? As you did predict, Ward. I don't really care if it affects Chelsea. but I mean, it was always going to be interesting for us, analysing it, to look and see all the teams that were there, you know, the big teams that were there, not the ones that sort of weaseled their way in and got paid a few quid.

50:21Was the big teams, how it was going to affect them and how it was going to affect their injuries and their performance. So I suppose all that will come out in the wash near the end of the season, but he can, you know, he can, and other managers can look to that. Go and see that guy, Infantino. Go and talk to him about it. Go and talk to him at the Club World Cup. We told you at times, a bag of crap. That's where it is. Frank? But still, Craig, I'm sorry. I'm going to refer to the 98 World Cup and Marcelo Salih and myself. We played all the games during the season. We won with Chelsea four titles.

50:56We played the European Cup, so we went far in the European Cup. We were far in the League Cup that we won. and went to play the World Cup. We had like two weeks and a half holidays and we had to play with Chelsea. Marseille just signed. And we had to play. We played almost all games season long. We played the semi-final of the Cup, Winners Cup, European Cup, which doesn't exist anymore. We played the Premier League. We played the FA Cup. We played with the national team for the qualification of the European. We never complained about anything. We never felt tired. and we were happy to go for it and we didn't get injured.

51:36I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they're more fragile. Maybe they are too wandering about anything. We were going for it. The soft. And again, talk about the field. Mentality. But they are soft these days. They're soft. You're calling Nadam soft. No, Nadam's retired. They're soft. Nadam is half soft. It's between the two generations. There's nothing worse now. They're soft. Most of them, they're soft and they're pampered. They're highly paid, pampered softies, the bulk of them, right? No, a lot of them are very talented. I think we're all a bit sick now. He's sitting here listening to managers and players talking about fatigue.

52:14I mean, we're in November. No, but you see... You see Caicedo. Caicedo. Is he complaining? He plays every game. He's fantastic. He runs everywhere. And it's what we talk... Craig was talking about, the good players. They don't complain. They go for it. They go for it and they're good. So, I don't know. You think players never run. You think players never run about. I mean, you think we just... Natham, what's making you chuckle so much? Because I don't know what we're talking about anymore. Which players complaining? It was Morescu answering a question. Like, how do we get here? Like, the players may...

52:54You may perceive them to be soft and pampered. but I'm sure the players that played football before the guys on this panel played football would have called you guys also soft and pampered it's like a generational thing to where we believe everybody's getting softer but we never we never we never we never we never we never we didn't come out but who's moaning but who's moaning but who's moaning that's the thing who's moaning every every manager and coach even players are coming out moaning about it which players which players that's the thing because we're talking about players for example like in years gone by we've had like Roger with our courtois all these guys and it's not just the fact that they're playing too many games this season for them it's three four five years worth all coming off the back of the pandemic for example for when there's like the Nations League games and all these extra games being brought in and some are playing like 70 80 games in a season which I think stop me if I'm wrong I think that's more than any generation beforehand has had to play before and for me I say this is a reason why like it's not in isolation because it's not just one season and I think the accumulation, accumulation, accumulation, as Frank said, you know, you have a two and a half week break in the sun before you start again.

53:58That's too short. But when you do it three, four years in a row, well, I think they're pretty much entitled to complain because it does feel like it's too much. I think, Nadem, I think Zidane, when they compared when Zidane won the Champions League in 2002, I think it was, and they compared with another player from Real Madrid when they won the last time they won the Champions League, Zidane played more games. He played more games. and he never complained about that. And he was in the middle of a before World Cup 2002 and he played all the games. And so they are playing games. I remember that in average 98 players from France play like 60, 62 games a season.

54:39So I think it's more like we are trying to find why players are so much injured nowadays. And that's maybe the question mark we have to find. why they are so much injured. All right, well, let's move on now to a little bit of refreshing news, shall we? To just, you know, brighten the spirits. Ruben Amorim was named Premier League Manager of the month. That's one of the most ridiculous things ever. I'll tell you what. We should have done the show. And Brian Obama got Player of the Month, too, for the month of October. Well, we're going to see if they can continue that form into November because they do have to travel.

55:14What form? They should have lost it, not in Forest. Craig, you pictured or you predicted a loss for United. Yeah, I did, yeah. What, did you watch him play it for us last week? Yes, unfortunately. Whoever gave voted for Ruben Amarim to be coach of the month because he won a couple of games and everybody felt sorry for him. Mika Leteta, they never lost a game, I don't think they lost a goal, whether you like him or not at any day. If you're going to be doing this with awards, don't have awards. Just don't have it, because this is ridiculous. I've gone for one now. I'll tell you why. Because I don't really think United are a great side.

55:49And I think they showed that last week when they were under pressure at Forest. Yeah, they had a couple of good results before that. I'll give you that. And Tottenham are sort of buoyed by a better performance midweek. I'm only doing it because they're at home. Because they were absolutely rank rotten against Chelsea. I think Thomas Frank, the Tottenham fans are undecided about them. Shall I say? And there was that incident last week where, was it Van de Ven and Spence? sort of blanked him. Never a good sign. Never a good sign for any manager, never mind a new manager. But just because they're at home and just because generally their defence is quite strong, quite strong, I've gone for Tottenham.

56:28But to be honest, it could go either way. I don't really. Nader, what do you think? You actually have surprisingly gone for a Manchester United win and I didn't have to twist your arm for that one. Yeah, beware of the jinx. Beware of the prediction jinx, Alexis. But yeah, in all seriousness, I've seen United play better in the league in the last few weeks compared to, say, Spurs, who have had those up and downs. And as that sort of graphic shows, at home, they've really not shown anything at all. And I think from Craig's perspective, talking about Spurs at home against Chelsea, they were horrible.

57:03When you think about the nature of that game, it's a big game, it's a rivalry, and there was just nothing there whatsoever. So in some ways, maybe Spurs aren't going to be a great side going forward playing at home. Obviously, they had a good result in the Champions League in midweek. But even within that, there was some level of toil. But I think in this moment in time, United arrive in a better moment. And as a consequence, I think I could see them winning again. Well, Spurs showed that they can definitely score some goals. We saw that in the Champions League. So stunning ones, especially from Mickey Van der Ben.

57:31I mean, Tottenham versus Manchester United. Historically, when you look at the fixture, should excite you. but there's nothing that really excites me about this game because what's on the line really for these two teams at the end of the season I mean Manchester United he got that award because of the Liverpool game that's why Armourinho got the award and he still talks every weekend he still talks about how they fall asleep and he's right and that's what he did at Forest they dominated the first half and then they were lucky they got the point at the end of the day. I mean, really, there's nothing that excites me about this game, honestly.

58:20I think Mbohom will probably deserve to get his award because I think he's been their standout player and he has absolutely made a difference and he might do the same in this game and get a goal. But I don't trust Manchester United at all and Tottenham going forward. They may have scored the other night against, I mean, Copenhagen, right? Yep. They were playing against 10 men. They were playing with 10 men, sorry. And Copenhagen just lay down. So it's hard to get carried away about Spurs going forward. But again, I don't trust Manchester United. I don't trust the back line to keep MD out. So that's why I've gone for a 1-1.

59:04But I'm going to have to get up at half-seven to watch this. Yeah, same. Well, Frank, Stevie's not excited, but you've gone for a couple of goals in this one, a 3-1 win for Spurs. Yeah, I don't know what happened to me, you know. But really, really, yeah, I think I go with the statistics and the odds and everything. And I say, you know, when you are Spurs and you lost 1-0 the way you lost against Chelsea at home, it can happen twice. and people players, they know that, they will have pride, they will work hard and maybe they can change the attitude that they had and the bad attitude they had, I'm talking about Van de Ven and Spence towards the coach at the end of the game.

59:46So they want to make sure the fans will cheer them up so they're going to work hard and they're going to win that game and I'm with TV, I'm not convinced about Manchester United. I saw the game against Nottingham Forest, yeah they were better against Nottingham Forest but they were shaky at some point like for five minutes like I rarely see as I've seen that so let's see what it works how it works for the for the post team but yeah we are talking about two teams we finished 16 and 17 slices or 15 and 16 slices and so I don't expect too much I will be on the train on my way to my play so let's see if I have a connection if I don't have a connection that's not a big deal I think I think I think you know Thomas Frank that a really good job at Brentford, but if you look back at the way they played, there was a certain style about how they did things, and a lot of it was sort of counter-attacking, balls over the top, pace and aggression with the guys up front.

1:00:43There has to be a bit more at a club like Tottenham than that, and I think to be honest, they've made a mistake. I think Frank's a good manager, but I think Areola's a much better one. I think that was the choice they should have gone for, and I think they've been sort of laden with another Daniel Levy decision before he was booted out of the football club by ownership, who did an audit of how he was running the club. And it was his push to get Thomas Frank to come in. And it's early days for him. Now, don't get me wrong. It is early days. But I do think that was his last sort of hurrah of a mistake.

1:01:17And he made many. He made many. Was pushing the boat out to get Thomas Frank from Brentford when the best guy available was the guy managing Bournemouth, who still, although they lost last week, when you lose three or four of your best players as they did, and they're still sitting as they were, going into last week, I think, in the top four in the Premier League. That's telling you the job he's doing there. And the way they play as well. The football that they play, the way they go about it, everything he does from his time in Spain to his time at Bournemouth is just classy. Thomas Frank has got this work ethic and organisation and that was great for Brentford.

1:01:57But I think the Tottenham fans, you can argue all you want about success and not success, but they're demanding a little bit more than that. They don't want the Ange Postacoglu scattergun approach, but they don't want this kind of football that they've seen this season at home and in many games, and certainly the game against Chelsea. So he has to find the balance between this sort of defensive, turgid approach to getting more of the flair players into the game. and I think there is a big question mark whether he's the man to actually do that or not. But I've still gone narrowly for a win because I don't think either are great sides.

1:02:33No. You seem disappointed. Yeah, started on positive for me, ended on a negative. Well, it's not about who supports who in this show. Exactly. All right, well, here's all the Premier League fixtures coming up this weekend. We talked about some of the big guns playing, but Arsenal, they are the big gun at the moment. They are up against Sunderland. Something Tells Me, Natum will be very tuned into that game. Well, we'll be talking about all those games on the show tomorrow on ESPN FC. Make sure to join us. In today's world, planning ahead isn't always top of mind, but not having life insurance can leave families facing difficult financial uncertainty during already emotional times.

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1:04:47All right, that's it for this edition of ESPN FC. But as usual, don't go anywhere. I've got your questions right here coming up in Extra Time.

1:04:59He's a dropy, plethora. Welcome into Extra Time. We've got Stevie, we've got Craig, we've got Natum, we've got Frank. What an absolute foolhouse. And I've got plenty of questions. First question. I'm not sure we can do this. Do what? Maybe we need a sports scientist to tell us if we're able to do it. To pamper you a bit more? Well, when we started doing it, it was a lot easier. It's getting more physical sitting here for longer. The show's just changed. It used to be half an hour and now it's grown arms and legs. Now it's one hour. And the fatigue level. Seven days a week. We did some of those, what do you call it, eagle lights, what are they called?

1:05:39And they shook all that stuff and gave them energy. Electrolytes. Electrolytes. You say eagle lights. I didn't add a guess at it. We need electrolytes. That's what we need during the show. Rotation. Yeah. Rotation. Well, there's rotation. Are you off? Get Shaq. Get Shaq back. Shaq did a double shift yesterday. Can't take much more. We can do a half shift today. I can go out and he can come in. And I can come back in at extra time. And then we're not overloading. But then that messes with the chemistry that we have so well. What chemistry? On that note. First question for Nadam. Nadam, does it matter that City are becoming Haaland dependent or as long as they're winning, considering how badly last season was, is the only important thing for them right now?

1:06:23I don't think they're Haaland dependent anymore. I think for some of the attacking... Yeah, I think for some of the attacking talent that they have, you know, with Doku, Savino, Shirky, looking at Foden's, and even the like Oscar Bobs as well, if they're not scoring goals, I think those players themselves will be disappointed, and rightly so. But if they're ultimately winning games of football, then for me personally, I don't really care. And I think deep down the manager probably doesn't care as well. Because one thing it means is that they'll be assisting Haarlem. They'll be creative and so on.

1:06:49But I think ultimately winning games of football is the key. And if they could win every game of football 1-0 from now to the end of the season, I'm pretty sure they'd take that, even if, say, Wingo doesn't score. So I'm not too bothered. All right, there's your answer. Next question is for the defenders. And boy, do we have plenty on this panel today. How long does it take to forget an own goal? It generally depends on how experienced you are if you're a kid. Oh, it haunts you for a bit. Well, you know, when you've got a certain amount of games behind you and it happens, then you just go, okay, it's happened.

1:07:22Can't do anything about it now. The only thing that matters is the next thing I do. It really depends on where you are in your career. I suggest probably a younger defender. It takes a little bit longer to get over. And again, it's an individual thing as well. Some guys, you know, some defenders have just pretty blank between the ears and so it doesn't really bother them. But so yeah, I would say it depends more on how experienced you are and where you are in your career, how quickly you get over it. Frank, what about you? I would say a night and the day after it's another day. But it's like missing a big chance.

1:08:03It's the same for me, a good pass. For me, I was thinking about it all night long, but the day after, I was going to the training session and it was forgotten because I had to think about the next game. But it wasn't a trauma. No, it's part of our job. It can happen. We can make mistakes. And again, that's something that has to be part of our job and the risk of our job. So you have to accept it. and when it happens, you're not happy, but you have to go through the process of healing from there. Oh, process of healing. Nadam's had to do a lot of healing. Nadam, how long did it take you to forget old balls?

1:08:46Nadam knows a lot of it. Where's that come from? Yeah, anyway, I think I'm the same as Frank. So as far as football goals, I play in a game and then that game will exist in my mind until we go next time I kick a ball So that would be the next training session and then from there You just on to the next thing and thankfully I think I scored maybe like two possibly three on goals And I don't remember two of them because essentially, you know, they're just things that just happen sometimes if you're a player For example that you know tries to make a back pass and put into your own net The next time you try to make a back pass maybe exists in your mind But when it's just an unfortunate on goal, that's Frank said It's just a part of the game and you can just move on from it pretty quickly to be honest All right, look at that.

1:09:26Everyone's so healed. Not holding on to any baggage like I do. Next question. Does Mickey Van der Ven resemble any centre-backs you've played with or against? No. That was simple. No. I've missed Craig. For me, in terms of physique and defending, I would say Daniel Van Boeten that I play with at Marseille. we have to play for Bayern Munich and won the Champions League with Bayern Munich. Great, great fellow from Belgium. But in terms of pace, you know, being so tall and so fast, I don't remember anybody like him. That's absolutely insane. So Van Barton's not like him then. In terms of pace. Defensively, yeah.

1:10:17Des what you play against Des? Yep. In terms of pace, maybe Des. Des is quick. But Des didn't have his composure going forward on the left foot on the wall. So the answer's no again. Need him? Oh my God. I can't think of anyone to be honest. We're talking about somebody who's potentially fastest in the league and he's left footed and he's got the size. I get Frank's comparison with Daniel van Weyten because he came to City for a little bit on loan and I do see that now that he's said it. But ultimately he's a unicorn. and I think that's a big reason why he's such an important player for Spurs.

1:10:56All right, there you have it, Mickey van der Ven. He knocked us out of the Euros qualifiers. Van Boyten. Oh, he's very resentful. Not van der Ven. He said he's very resentful. I'm not resentful. I'm not resentful because he didn't... He's done healing. I just had to sit and listen to the answers that were incorrect. Fair. So let's go to the next one. Oh, my God. This next one's for Nadam. Natum, Stevie says Sunderland have no chance to qualify for Europe this season. Are you willing to rep Black Cat Nation and make a wager with him on that? Ooh, Natum's got a lot of money, so Natum, come on. Throw something out there.

1:11:35Stevie's a messing man. What's the least amount of money we can bet? What's the least amount of money we can bet? And let's do that. How far will it go down? Seven? Just so we can feel good about it. Seven places, something like that? Eight, maybe eight places? Five Champions League. It's seven places. Yeah. Oh, for Europe at all? Even eight. Even eight possible. You think it's the Champions League? If somebody wins the FA Cup or win the Champions League, they can go until eight. Stevie, what's the minimum Natham's allowed to put on the line? I think I've got a bet with Shaq, haven't I? On this as well?

1:12:12No, on something I can't remember. On Newcastle. I've done that many bets, I can't even remember the ones I've got. Well, we need a fresh run now with Nadam. You could be cashing in. Nadam's not going to bait me on that. Nadam will. He's ready. I could be. He said at what's the least ticket for this. Yeah, let's do it, Stevie. Let's do it. I'll give you a single dollar. It's just losers. 20 US dollars? No. No? 20 US dollars? Too low for you? How about 50? No point, man. No, one single US dollar. Thank you very much. Oh, I think your bet with Xhaka is whether Hugo Akitike will score more than João Pedro.

1:12:48Right. I remember it now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, Nadam's not going to be here. He's undoubtedly going into Europe. Oh, Nadam, they don't think you're up for it. He's undoubtedly getting into Europe. It's this new Pampa generation of players. But it's important to note, though, Nadam, that Stevie, if he has to pay up, he pays in coins. I wouldn't need to pay up on this one. That's fine. That's fine. OK. You can still take coin to the bank. I know that's right.

1:13:21Okay, so we're not betting? No, we're moving on. Okay, we're moving on. I'll take it. We're trying to move on, at least. I mean, unless we want to just waffle more. I don't know. All right, we'll just move on. Yeah, I think that's helpful. Okay, next question. Which side, Liverpool or City, need the win more this weekend? Slott said City-Liverpool is similar to El Clásico. Is he right? and which rivalry as a player would you always turn on to watch now as a pundit? Wow, that's like three questions in one, James. He went for it. Well, A, it's not like a classical. That's nonsense. B, they both need it, really.

1:13:59And what's the last bit? Which rivalry as a player would you always turn on to watch? What do you mean rivalry? Now as a pundit. I suppose either... He's going to say none. Yeah. clubs like which like an El Clasico or the Clasico Merseyside Derby which one would you always turn on to watch you wouldn't miss you wouldn't get up for any of them would you get about half 70 to watch any of them any of those games oh come on like Tottenham it's because Arnest Slott said that he would always it's asking which game you played in as a player rivalry no I don't understand

1:14:39Well, Nathan? As a former player, whatever. As a pundit, as a pundit, as a pundit, I would always watch the Clásicos. I've watched the Clásicos when I was a player, and I'm still going to watch them for, you know, the rest of my life. Even without Messi and Ronaldo, that's still one of the biggest games in world football, if not the biggest. So, that's the one for me. And then outside of that Premier League base, I actually quite enjoy watching United versus Liverpool. And I think that is essentially like the showpiece game for the Premier League as well. So I'd probably say they're my two games.

1:15:06And which of the two, City or Liverpool, do you think needed the most this weekend? Craig said both.

1:15:13To be honest, I probably have to lean into the City bias, because Frank made a good point earlier that for as much as this game is really important for both, City are at home. So this is their advantage. And when they play Liverpool again later in the season, City's record at Anfield is pathetic, to say the very least. So if you want to take some points away from somebody who can potentially win a title, that's got to be this weekend. Probably got to go with Scotland, England. Even though right now you're scared to watch it. That would be the game I would... Scotland are on the up.

1:15:48How did you figure that out? I tried. I'm just trying to avoid it. We did watch those as kids though, didn't we? Scotland, England. We did watch those as kids. Always. But I wouldn't get out of bed to watch it now. To be honest with you. If I was working, I would, obviously. because I'd have to watch it because I was working. But I love watching the classical. I just think that's a great game. It's usually a great game. But yeah, that's all, really. All right, well, that's it. I thought you'd almost come alive for a minute. I know, he did come alive. Oh, nearly. He was getting slightly sentimental.

1:16:20I was loving that. No, not really. A softer cream. If I can have a word on that. You may, Frank. For me, the best derby ever to watch, and in only one way, it's Boca Juniors against River Plate. Never seen one in my life. I love the atmosphere of the craziness. I love that. Yeah. Well, good. You go and love it. That's good old South American football. I've managed to manage 50 odd years without watching that game. So I'm okay with that. And he's back. And he's back. We saw a little soft part when he was talking about being a kid watching Scotland England. Not really, no. Slightly. There was a slight glimmer, wasn't there?

1:16:51When you looked at Stevie. Sorry? All right. That's it for Extra Time, everyone. Make sure to tune in to our show tomorrow where we look back and all of the action from the Bundesliga to La Liga and, of course, the Premier League.

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