Post-Exit: From Chaos to Clarity

29:15I love this. May I challenge you? Please. So I've been obsessed about freedom for most of my life, as I think every single entrepreneur out there. and then at some point I realized that actually when I did achieve all the freedom I could think about what I really really really wanted was to limit that freedom and to commit to a purpose and have clarity and channel all that energy I had towards that purpose and I had to admit to myself that I actually do not want to have unlimited freedom anymore. I want to have it limited by my own will. How would you think about that? Yeah, I think that's exactly it, right?

30:08Is that, you know, I think, I think the first step is doing exactly what you said, is creating that unlimited freedom. And then you get to step into choice. Okay. If I have unlimited time, if I have the ability to sit in stillness. Now what gets to start to emerge? And I think what most people find is ultimately it's not about you. And that was very much my journey is that it felt really fun for a little while to live selfishly and just pursue things like adventure sports and spending time with my kids and all of that stuff is really impactful. But then I started to feel this itch of like, okay, I've got something greater to give here.

30:52And the minute I stopped making it about me and started making it about service and purpose, then you're right. Like I'm working harder than I've ever worked, including at my first company right now, creating content, writing, coaching, and I love it. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with my craft. And if you'd have told me five years ago that I would be working harder than ever, I would have laughed you out of the room because I thought, I thought it was game over and I would never have to work again. But now it's, it's instead of a place from have to it's I get to. And so my, I love, uh, having clients and this is something I've done for a long time is, is choosing a magic word for the year.

31:33So choosing a single word that, uh, will help you embody the life that you want to create. And for me, my word this year is purpose. And so every morning is like, how can I live into my purpose? And, and you're right. Like when, when you're stepping into that service, now, all of a sudden I've created constraints so that I can generate my highest and best self in order to live into that purpose. So how do you define purpose? Yeah. Uh, for me, uh, my purpose, uh, at least right now. So, so I think it's really important is that a lot of times people go, hey, I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life.

32:18That to me is really heavy. So I try to have as broad definitions and give myself the flexibility to change over time. But right now, my purpose is helping other people wake up to what's important because I feel like the universe gave me that gift of all of these experiences that resulted in realizing that I was chasing the wrong things. And so being able to give that gift to other people is my highest purpose, at least for right now. And so, you know, I really encourage people to have whatever purpose they feel is central and hold it very loosely. And so I've tried to define it as broadly as possible.

33:00And so, you know, helping people wake up could mean in my work, but it also could mean with friends. It could mean with my family. Like it has a broad enough definition where I'm given the flexibility and adaptability to move and change as I grow and my purpose can grow along with it. Okay. I think that's wonderful. Really inspiring. So, Mike, a few years ago, I thought that the biggest problem post-exit is that so many people do not stop and take a break and think through things and do some introspection. And today, I'm actually thinking that the biggest problem is something else. It's the fact that many people stop and instead of taking a break, actually retire.

33:52Because when we retire, then we create this whole system of habits supporting our comfortable life. And it's extremely hard to break out of that and find that purpose, which you just so beautifully described, that inspires you, that gets you excited, that you're obsessing about. I'm curious if you came across clients who are having that problem, being stuck in a golden cage and feeling their life is empty, even though their lifestyle is beautiful. and how do you guide these people out of that problem? Yeah, so like I mentioned earlier, I do think selling a company and sitting in stillness is really important because the reality is when we look at that same driven personality type that leads us to be founders, a lot of times our edge is driven from darkness.

34:42It's driven from our past traumas. It's driven from pain that we are running from And we're looking to fill that hole with external validation and success and, you know, all the trappings that come with that. And so, you know, I love the book Second Mountain by David Brooks, where our first mountain business is typically, you know, building from a place of lack, building from external validation, building from trying to fill a hole that only you can fill. And so taking that space, I think, is really important because a lot of us wear busyness like a badge of honor. And I hear a lot of times, you know, founders say, oh, I could never sit still.

35:23And whenever I hear that, my question is, what are you trying not to feel? And I can tell you there was a lot of things in my life that I was trying not to feel by throwing myself at work, by trying to fill that hole with external validation. And so having that time and that space to actually start to lean in and feel the things that I was maybe suppressing or anything from PTSD that I was not willing to acknowledge or this constant need to prove myself. All of those things came front and center during that period of stillness. But you have to lean in. So I think you've nailed it, right? If you're just creating comfort, there's actually no space to lean into those feelings that maybe we've been suppressing for a long time.

36:12So I recommend that everyone take some space, at least six months, but do the work. Lean into the feelings. Figure out what it is that's driving you to never be able to sit still. And then on the backside of that, now let's start stepping into purpose. Now let's think about what building from light, what building from purpose can actually look like. and uh you know i i do think that there is a trap in just creating so much comfort that you you're now just creating a new way of distracting yourself it might have been your company before and now maybe it's pleasure and so i think you have to do the work in association with sitting in stillness yeah yeah no absolutely um i'm curious how did you go through this journey of becoming less selfish because that is what we have to do to find purpose yeah um you know a again pain is a great teacher and uh you know i think it really started unwinding when i found that the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow wasn't what i thought it was going to be and that you know no amount of achievement no amount of of trophies in iron man's, no amount of proving myself in combat, uh, no amount of money was ever going to fill this hole.

37:31And so, you know, once I found that that was empty, okay, now what do I need to replace it? And, and so I started asking those bigger questions and super grateful to, uh, you know, have a coach and mentor, uh, guiding me through that process. You're going to therapy, you're kind of doing, uh, engaging in all of these different modalities that allow us to start uncovering those, those bigger questions and start repatterning that edge from, you know, a place of lack to a place of purpose.

38:06Therapy versus coaching. What did it give you therapy comparing to coaching? Yeah. I mean, look, uh, I think therapy is a, is a really useful tool, uh, in the toolkit, But, you know, I recommend that people try multiple modalities because, you know, while therapy is amazing for identifying and perhaps healing some of our childhood patterns, you know, therapists are bound by guidelines. And, you know, you could end up in a therapist's office for years and not make any real progress because they don't have the ability to kind of drop the hammer. And that's where coaching was more effective for me because, you know, I think a great coach kind of wears both hats.

38:54They can ask really good questions and help you understand your patterns and gain some insight as to where they came from. But at some point they can go, hey, you're full of shit. Stop it. Like, and, and really, you know, push a lot harder. And I think for high performers that can be really valuable as long as it's wielded with intention. you know i have to say for me the very idea of going back and relieving the trauma and finding what was wrong in in our childhood for me that never worked i actually think it's um sometimes it's better to focus on something much more much bigger much more important that you care so much more about that the trauma may just dissolve because it will be small in comparison.

39:45Yeah, I think that's totally valid. And I can tell you, you know, recently I've had one of my most significant breakthroughs since starting this work a decade ago. And essentially what I found was, you know, I would be in coaching retreats or in the therapist office. And normally we do memory association. We go back to childhood memories that are particularly painful. And I would be accessing these memories of, you know, my mom yelling at me or being made fun of by kids or whatever, whatever it is. And I would see other people in the room getting really emotional as they access these memories.

40:23And, you know, when I was honest with myself, I was like, yeah, I mean, that was painful. It wasn't a pleasant experience, but I didn't have this deep ocean of pain that a lot of other people seem to experience. And, you know, there was a point where I kind of started giving up or thinking like, maybe I'm, you know, just not wired to feel that kind of emotion or whatever. What I actually found was that my pattern was created by a much more metatrauma, which is kind of, you know, when I was in first grade, my parents got called in the principal's office and they said, Hey, your son just took his first achievement test or IQ test or whatever it was.

41:04And he tested off the charts and we're not going to tell him. I actually didn't find this out until I was 30 years old, but I had a distinct sense of kind of permanent othering because, you know, I knew things that other people my age didn't know. I was, I was able to intuit things or, or just have answers that other people had to work through or study for. And, you know, kind of Sort of like how there's very little sympathy for post-exit founders, there's very little sympathy for people who are considered gifted. And while that giftedness, that intelligence is a massive advantage, it can also be a burden.

41:47And so, you know, as I found this kind of permanent state of rejection and aloneness, because I wasn't able to really connect with my peers, or be seen for who I truly am, you know, I started this, this process of chameleoning, I would meet people where they are, I would modulate my answers, I would, I would always try to be fitting in. And I didn't realize kind of the pain or the deep ocean of sadness that was associated there. So for me, finding that emotion was really finding this meta-permanent state rather than event-based traumas, if that makes sense.

42:28Absolutely. Do you think your parents made the right decision by not telling you about that test? I think that's really hard to to parse out you know again I think they were doing the best they could with the information they had that was the recommendation they got from the school so you know I think they were just uh following whatever protocol they thought was was necessary um and I'm not sure what I would have done with that information early on uh so I'm not sure if would have made any kind of a difference. Um, you know, but now I think, you know, we, we see a lot more, um, a huge rise in, in, you know, helping kids navigate neurodivergence and, um, you know, whether that be giftedness, whether that be Asperger's or like whatever, however that manifests for them.

43:20Uh, and, and so I think having access to more modern tools or support for, you know, this thing that was, again, while a gift, it was also very othering, and I didn't understand why. So I think that, you know, fast-forwarding 40 years now to, I mean, I think we've taken a massive step in the right direction in giving support for neurodivergent children. How do you go about this with your own kids? Do you encourage them, for example, to be entrepreneurs? Do you encourage them to be different? Yeah, I mean, this goes back to what I was saying is that I think we do people a disservice. And I hear so many founders and entrepreneurs going like, oh, how do I teach my kids to be entrepreneurs?

44:07And I think entrepreneurship selects you. I really, I think that it's probably inherent with personality types. and so I don't encourage my kids to be entrepreneurs. I actually encourage them to figure out whatever their own path is and I want to give them the tools. I want to give them the access. I want to teach them about entrepreneurship. So, you know, I'll have conversations with my son and be like, hey, you know, do you see any other kids driving to school in a Lamborghini? No? Okay, well, let's talk about how that happened. Let's talk about what, you know, what I had to do in order to, to reach this, this kind of life.

44:44And then we talk about whether that feels like a fit for him or not. And we had a great conversation recently. I was like, Hey, do you think you would rather work for yourself or work for a big company? And he was like, Oh, I think I'd rather work for a big company. I'm like, great. Like that's, that's really good to know, because if I try to force you into this box of entrepreneurship, you're going to be fundamentally unhappy because your personality doesn't actually fit that. but you still model that behavior to your kids probably especially to your son yeah yeah certainly you know i i really view go ahead i know whether you like it or not your son will be uh looking at you as a model yeah and and this is i think critically important it's a distinction that i don't think a lot of parents get is, you know, kids pick up on what you do, not what you say.

45:36You can, you can speak at them all day long, but they're actually just going to learn modeled behaviors. And so what can I do to prepare my kids is live my best life possibly and stand in my truth and show them that I am living into my purpose and living into my values. I can model a good relationship, right? So I can, I can tell them what a good relationship looks like, or I can just show them. And what I view my role as a parent is actually helping them create their own sovereignty. So my first principles as a parent is that my children are sovereign beings. They actually know what's best for them.

46:11They have their own internal wisdom. And my job is just to set the boundaries and help them ask really good questions so that they can unlock what's already inherent within them. How old are they now? My son is 12 and my daughter is 7. And she's a little wrecking ball. She's a little mini me. Because I have to say that I clearly see the pattern that many successful entrepreneurs, those I talk to who exited their companies, their parents are or were entrepreneurs as well. So I think that modeling clearly works. Yeah, that's interesting. You know, I would have to sit with that because I actually feel like a lot of my peers and founders that I talked to a lot of times came from nothing or came from parents that worked, you know, government jobs or teaching jobs or whatever.

47:14And their drive was to create a better life for themselves. And so that's a really interesting distinction. Yeah, because what I notice now is that those who achieved this highest level of success and actually sold their companies successfully, more often than not have parents who were entrepreneurs. That's just my observation. I don't have enough statistics to support that. Yeah, and I think that could totally be true. And I think it probably depends, right? Like you're, you're talking to a lot of, uh, nine multi nine, you know, 10 figure founders. Um, and, and, uh, I'm probably playing in more of a different pond of, you know, more of the, the five to 50 million type folks.

48:04And so I, I wouldn't be surprised if there's correlation between the highest levels of success, you know, as we know, it gets really pointy at the top. So I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, more multi nine type figure founders, uh, had entrepreneurial parents. And that'd be a really interesting study to actually get data on, I'm sure. Yeah. What about your parents? Yeah. So I grew up in a very wealthy town, Midland, Texas, which is the second highest income per capita after Greenwich, Connecticut. And it's due to the oil and gas industry. So I had a lot of wealthy friends, but my parents were not wealthy.

48:44My dad was an engineer for a very large oil company. And, you know, in the eighties and nineties, the oil business was not the same as it is now. And so we had five kids and money was a struggle my entire life. I mean, I grew up watching my parents fight every night about money. And, you know, my dad is an incredible engineer, but he is very much not an entrepreneur. He was very risk averse and, you know, he would, he would rather be nosing into spreadsheets all day long than, than going out and, you know, taking risks. And, and so I knew very early that I was much different than my dad. Uh, that was, that was, and for a long time, uh, I probably thought, uh, you know, I probably didn't understand why he was so risk averse, but now again, that, that I, I don't view entrepreneurship as better than I just, I view it kind of as a necessary evolution for those of us with this certain personality type.

49:50I can really see why that would have completely been a disaster for him. And I got to learn so much. I mean, my dad is one of the sweetest men that I've ever met in my entire life. And so I hold a lot of respect for people who aren't wired for risk the way that we are. But do you think that the fact that you were poorer than your friends when you were a child created a chip on your shoulder, which later pushed you to become ambitious about earning money? Absolutely. I mean, no question, right? Like I think all of these things contribute to the drive. I think, you know, being on the lower middle class end of things in a very wealthy town definitely was a driver, but even more so, I think it was watching my parents fight about money.

50:42I I mean, I can remember saying to myself as a very young child, like, I'm going to have so much money when I grow up that I'm never going to have to fight with my spouse. And I think that was really the core driver. And yes, I think the societal layer on top of that with my childhood friends was a part of that. But I think it was even more acute for me based on the dynamic I saw in my family. So it was nature and nurture then, in your case. Yeah, and my mom. Yeah. And my mom, uh, was, was an incredible mother who pushed us really, really hard, you know, with five kids in the family, uh, you know, my kind of core story was that achievement equals love.

51:28Like if, if I wanted to get attention at the dinner table, I better have gotten an A on a test or won my swim meet or, or scored a touchdown or whatever it is. And because that was just how we competed for attention in the family. And so she raised five very competitive children. And again, that's a really great core wound to have is that achievement equals love, because it kind of sets the stage for success as a driver. But if not uncovered and healed, at some point, it becomes a limitation. And that's kind of the path that I went on. brilliant so mike going back to your coaching business right now um if a recently exited entrepreneur came to you and asked what should i avoid what are the traps what are the dangers what i should not do within the first two three years post exit at least what would you say uh yeah first first and foremost is from a financial standpoint build a protective reserve uh whether that's you know whether you want to hire a wealth manager or or self-manage you know make sure that so the the concept i teach is called escape velocity which is essentially you know that point where your assets pay for your spending without ever drawing down on the principle so first and foremost do that you know before you make any investments before you're investing in your buddy's startup before you're buying crypto or whatever, you know, whatever, uh, wild entrepreneurial clippities you have, like take care of the protective reserve first.

53:01And then the second thing I would say is give yourself the gift of stillness. But like we said earlier, do the work, like go to therapy, hire a coach, like figure out what it is that makes you tick. And, um, and I think the mistake that we make, you know, a lot of people come to me and they go, well, yeah, but what if I lose my edge? And my answer is like, if your edge is driven by darkness, you may lose your edge, but there is so much for you in building and honing a new edge from a place of wholeness. And so, you know, don't jump into something so fast. Like don't get into the trap of biggering and biggering, like take some time, take some, take some space to heal, see what comes up for you in the absence of busyness.

53:44Like force yourself to read fiction books, works yourself to go on walks, uh, with no point, right? Like, because the other thing is, is, um, if we're not building a business, we might jump into a new sport or a new hobby and then throw ourselves into it just as voraciously as we do to business building. And, and I actually, you know, tell people like, Hey, take some idle time, like try and do a hobby with, with no intention of getting good and just, and see what comes up in that space. And that's when the real work begins. are you doing this to break the pattern the habit of achieving is that is that the reason yeah and um what i would say is that uh the point is actually not to break our patterns but it's to become a choice so you know achieving is a really useful pattern but not if it's our default subconscious state.

54:38Right. So I want to say, Hey, when, when can I put on this achievement-based hat? When is it useful? But also when is it not? So it's, it's really identifying how can I step out of this as a default mode into an app choice mode. And I think that really is the thing because I still want to keep my drive. I still want to keep my discipline. Like I want to keep all of those things that, that, that made me successful. I just don't want to be doing it unconsciously. but how do you master this control that's this switch of achievement mode yeah i mean it's um i think i think it's kind of the the fundamental process of self-actualization is understanding that control is an illusion and that no matter how hard we try we actually have way less control that we think.

55:31And, you know, every time I find a new layer and step into where am I trying to control, or, you know, it's kind of an, it's kind of a corollary to where am I not free? Where am I not free is usually a place I'm trying to control. And so what does it look like to have, uh, you know, understand that like, Hey, I know where I want to go, or I know what I think I can become, but let me hold that very loosely and allow the pattern to emerge rather than trying to force outcomes. And every time that I find myself out of alignment, it's probably because I'm trying to force or control an outcome versus setting the conditions and then allowing that, that outcome to naturally emerge as it will.

56:12And when we step into that, so often the outcome is so much greater and so much more beautiful than we could have possibly imagined because, you know, ultimately they are, our imagination is such a limiter, right? Because when I think about the greatest things in my life, all of them are beyond my wildest dreams. And so how can I foster the environment for my wildest dreams that I couldn't even imagine to come true? Do you think it's still useful to set up long-term goals like a 10-year-old big, hairy, audacious goal? I totally do. So I'll name mine for you, which is, you know, I see a future where I am a multi-time bestselling author.

56:56I'm speaking on the biggest stages in the world and I'm, I'm impacting, uh, you know, people at a, at a really massive level, but I have no idea exactly what that path is going to look like. I have some ideas. Like I'm, I'm working really hard on writing my first book right now. It's going to come out in the fall. You know, I'm working on creating content. So it's okay. What daily conditions, what daily, weekly, monthly conditions need to be true in order to allow for that outcome or make that outcome inevitable. And if I can just engage in those, now the path is going to take whatever path it takes, but I know that I will eventually get there.

57:30It's just a lot less structured than maybe it would have been 10 years ago for me. So when we sell our companies, one of the biggest challenges is that we no longer have a structure. we no longer have those people we delegate to who do what we ask them to do. How would you advise people to go about it and create an alternative structure in their lives without a company? Yeah, I think a couple things. One is I recommend, you know, as long as the exit is significant enough, I recommend keeping two employees. One is an assistant and two is a house manager. So I think my house manager, Sarah, is my most valuable employee.

58:21And essentially, when we hired her, I said, hey, look, we're two busy, fun-loving CEOs that want to spend more time with our kids. So I want to outsource all of the daily tasks that take time away from my kids and being present. and that is such a force multiplier because now I'm not doing things like, you know, cooking, doing laundry, going to the store, like all of the things that kind of take up a lot of space in our life. And so, you know, if a post-exit founder has the means, I highly recommend keeping some, you know, keeping a personal assistant or a VA or a house manager. And, you know, with that, I think that rules are made to be broken, right?

59:05Like I think we need to go break all the rules. I think we need to go into an unstructured period to then say, okay, what structure is serving me and what structure doesn't, right? Like I don't want to place a bunch of obligations. Like I don't want to join a bunch of boards where I have to show up for meetings. Like I want some unstructured time to then decide, okay, which structures actually serve me. So for me, it's health and fitness is a, is a structure that I, that is really important, right? If I, if I start getting away from my, my workouts or, or, um, you know, some of my other health practices, like that's going to put me in a bad spot.

59:39So I'm going to keep that structure, but, you know, feeling obligated to, um, you know, attend whatever meetings or events or like that stuff actually doesn't serve me. I don't want to be beholden. Uh, I don't want my time to be beholden to things that I'm not really passionate about. So I want to get rid of that structure. So it's really, you know, going into a period of unstructured activity and then finding where to build in a way that serves who you want to become. That leads us to a question which for many post-exit founders is particularly painful early on, which is identity. How do you think, what is the most helpful and healthy way to answer the question, what do you do after an exit?

1:00:27Yeah, I mean, I think probably the most fundamental question that a post-exit founder has to answer is, who am I without my company? And a level below that is, who am I without my achievements? Who am I without my success? And that can get really, really uncomfortable, but that's where the beauty lies. It is, is when you strip away all of the achievements, all of the money, all of the, you know, whatever, um, who are you at a core? Like, like who do my kids know me to be? Uh, who, who does my partner know me to be? And then, then you can start uncovering who am I to me. Right. And I, and I know that's, that's sort of an esoteric question, but I think there's so much in there is ultimately, like, am I still lovable if I'm not building things or achieving things?

1:01:17And that's something that a lot of founders wrestle with. Yeah, absolutely. So what are your biggest lessons with respect to relationships after your divorce and your whole transformation into a coach? yeah I uh I've I've found myself so incredibly fortunate uh in that I met a new partner um you know not long after my divorce who who is a fellow founder and she had been building a digital marketing agency for many years and um this was someone who was a is a true equal in every sense of the word and we've been able to develop a relationship where one plus one is greater than two. And for me, that distinction actually came when I was at my lowest point during that, that failed e-commerce company.

1:02:10There was days I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. And a good partner, I think would have come in and said, Hey buddy, like you got this, you can do it. Like get up, you know, we can, we can go do this. And she actually said, Hey, stay in bed. I'll take your meetings. I'll run your company. And Whoa, like what a, what a crazy relief and, um, you know, experience that I had never had, because I think when we are incredibly capable, we tend to, again, back to control, like we control all of the outcomes. And if I'm not okay, nobody else is going to be okay. And to go into a place where, Hey, I actually cannot be okay.

1:02:48And someone's got my back and someone capable can actually hold this space for me to be a mess. What an incredible gift. So I, uh, I just, I just am, you know, I have such deep gratitude for being able to build this relationship. And I, and I think it's, it's a gift, you know, I, uh, uh, I think that, you know, we grow and evolve and, uh, there's a really great podcast with, with Esther Perel on, uh, on Huberman that talks about, you know, we have multiple relationships in our lifetime. And if we're lucky, those relationships can be with the same person. You know, I, uh, I was not so lucky and, um, now I get to build this second mountain relationship.

1:03:31Uh, and I think, you know, I get to use all of the, the learn learnings and tools that I have access to now that I didn't before. And, uh, the reality is, is that, you know, relationships take intentionality and, you know, there's, there's your relationship with yourself and there is your partner's relationship with themselves. And then there's this third entity, the relationship between the two of you. And, um, you know, people say relationship takes work. I don't love the word work, but I would say tending to write into it. Like we have to be intentional with how we build this thing, or it's going to get out of hand because the reality is, is that, you know, as we go through life, little micro resentments build up that create a chasm.

1:04:15And so if we're not working to constantly heal those and come back together and pour intention into that relationship, I think any relationship is gonna deteriorate over time without that.

1:04:28Absolutely. And I wonder if you guys work so well together, are you thinking of actually working together, doing something as work partners as well, sharing your purpose, or you prefer to separate these things? We've tried many, many variations. So she was my CMO for both my previous company and now she's my CMO for my new company. I'm the CFO for her company. So we both have a deep role in each other's companies, but there was actually a period of time where in between companies, I was like, oh, I'm gonna work for you. I'll be your number two. And it turns out I really am unemployable. And even even though it was my wife, there was no way that that was going to work.

1:05:18And so now we found a really mutually beneficial way to work with each other where we help each other grow and build, but we're not so intricately involved in each other's companies that we're getting in each other's way. you found your balance great um mike is there something that we haven't discussed but you feel you would love to share with an audience of exited founders i mean you are so good at asking great questions uh this is hands down one of the deepest interviews i've done and i'm so grateful for the opportunity. But I would say the biggest thing is something I have already shared, but I would just love to reiterate and really leave the audience with, which is give yourself that gift of stillness and in that stillness, lean into figuring out who you truly are without achievement.

1:06:13Because I think that is really the key to then being able to build something, uh, from purpose, uh, something that's bigger than yourself. And I can tell you, you know, the, the view from here is remarkable. Like waking up every day, like, do I want to post on social media every single day? Like, of course not. But if I can take myself out of my ego and say, you know what, this is not for me. Like there is somebody out there that needs to hear this wisdom in this journey. And I've earned that, I've earned the right because of the pain and suffering that I went through. And if I can step out of myself into service, it's such a gift.

1:06:52And so really just take that stillness and see what's there for you. It is definitely worth it. I agree with you. I've gone through a similar journey and I would love people to not miss this opportunity and find what they truly are about and why they are on this planet in the first place. So, Mike, my last question is the same question I ask everybody else. How do you want to be remembered? You know, I think there's a big difference in impact and legacy. And legacy is what happens after you die. For me, legacy is heavy. Um, you know, I, I really am, uh, you know, I hope I'm remembered, uh, by my children as a, as a great dad.

1:07:47Uh, but other than them, I really don't care who am I remembered by. I care about who I can impact while I'm here. Uh, and, and so I just try to focus on everything on present rather than, uh, you know, putting my name on the side of the building, uh, when I'm gone. And that's what keeps me driven. That's what keeps me getting up every day is how can I impact people in the present rather than worrying about some future where I'm not even around to enjoy it.

1:08:18Awesome. Mike, thank you so much. So much wisdom. Absolutely brilliant. You've given us so much value. I'm really, really grateful for that. Yeah, well, I really appreciate the opportunity to jam with you. Like I said, you ask amazing questions and I really appreciate the work that you're putting into the world. Thank you so much.