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Exit Paradox Podcast Notes: Episode with Richard Steel
Episode Overview
- Podcast Title: Exit Paradox
- Host: Anastasia Koroleva
- Guest: Richard Steel
- Episode Title: Richard Steel: Ex-Founder's "Portfolio of Interests"
This episode features Richard Steel, a former business owner who shares his experiences and insights following the sale of his company, Steel Media. Steel's journey includes leadership roles in public companies, authorship, philanthropic initiatives, and a unique philosophy on creating a "portfolio of interests."
Key Themes & Discussions
- Reflections on the Business Sale
- No Regrets: Steel expresses no regret over selling Steel Media, viewing it as a positive and necessary step for his life and the company.
- Compares the sale to a "good trade," emphasizing that it prevented a gradual decline of the business.
- Emotional Closure: Describes the day of the sale, detailing how he celebrated with employees, paid bonuses personally, and created meaningful moments of closure.
- Integration and Growth Post-Sale
- Business Integration: Discusses the challenges and achievements during the integration of Steel Media with the acquiring company.
- Achieved 180% of EBITDA targets in the first year post-acquisition.
- Public Offering: Highlights the milestones including going public and the experience of ringing the NASDAQ bell, which solidified the success of the integration process.
- Transition from Employee to Entrepreneur
- Starting Steel Media: Steel's journey began with being fired from a previous job, which motivated him to start his own digital advertising firm.
- Motivational Shift: Initially driven by fear and greed, post-exit motivations shifted towards freedom, choice, and external impact.
- Understanding Wealth and Its Role
- Wealth as Freedom: Steel emphasizes that money is a means to an end, allowing for freedom, influence, and charity rather than materialism.
- Philanthropy: Engages in philanthropic initiatives that reflect his values and desire to make a positive impact.
- Lifelong Learning and Personal Development
- Ongoing Education: Steel's commitment to lifelong learning is evident through continuous education and participation in programs that enhance his skills and knowledge.
- Mentorship and Guidance: Discusses the importance of mentorship and having a personal board of advisors in navigating business challenges.
- Parenting Philosophy
- Intentional Parenting: Steel emphasizes the importance of teaching values and maintaining open communication with children.
- Family Values: Developed a family crest to represent core family values, including health, integrity, hard work, wealth, and happiness.
- Personal Health and Balance
- Wellness Routines: Steel maintains a disciplined routine focused on health, including daily workouts, meditation, and a healthy diet.
- Work-Life Balance: Discusses the importance of prioritizing family and personal health over business obligations.
- Reflection on Loneliness and Connection
- Loneliness at the Top: Acknowledges the loneliness often felt by entrepreneurs, particularly after an exit, and the need for community and connection.
- Building Relationships: Shares his approach to surrounding himself with uplifting and interesting individuals, as well as the necessity for solitude to recharge.
Key Takeaways
- The transition after selling a business involves complex emotional and practical adjustments.
- Establishing a "portfolio of interests" can lead to a fulfilling and balanced life post-exit.
- Continuous learning, mentorship, and intentional parenting play crucial roles in personal and professional growth.
- Health and wellness should be prioritized, as they are foundational to sustaining long-term success and happiness.
- Open communication and shared values are essential in maintaining strong family relationships.
Conclusion Richard Steel’s journey post-exit serves as a profound reminder of the importance of redefining success, embracing continuous learning, and nurturing both personal and professional relationships. His insights offer valuable guidance for former entrepreneurs navigating life after a business sale.
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Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:28Welcome to the Exit Paradox Podcast. board and established a philanthropic fund. His unique philosophy emphasizes the creation of what he calls a portfolio of interests. Hi, Richard. Hi. Thank you so much for joining us today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. So you successfully sold your business, Still Media, almost 10 years ago. That makes you a very experienced post-exit founder and a perfect guest for this podcast. Do you ever regret selling your business? No, no, it was it was a good trade. There's a television show called Mad Men about Madison Avenue in the advertising world. And there's a scene when one of the junior staffers, there's a woman named Peggy, says to her boss, Don Draper, you know, she's sort of complaining about everything.
1:20And he looks at and he sort of screams and he's like, that's what the money's for, right? Like you're getting paid. And so I don't regret it in that I think that had we not sold, it might have been a slow and gradual sort of grind into oblivion, right? And so it extended the runway for my company, for all of our employees and for myself. Now, would I like to have, you know, the outcome two years later, you know, been much different? Sure, of course. But, you know, you can't have your cake and eat it too and have every single wish that you want. Now, there are things that I miss. I mean, I miss the team and the interaction and figuring out difficult problems with intelligent people.
2:05That's some of my favorite, you know, things to do. And the people that I worked with, I could spend an hour talking about how phenomenal they are. That's the only thing that I miss would be the interaction with those folks and sort of how we work together as a team, because we were really, really, really solid for such a long time. So if we go back to the moment when you just sold your company, how did it feel? So if it was a Friday and if the deal was going to close, I wanted to, sorry, it was a Thursday. And if the deal was going to close, I wanted to be in New York with all my employees. And I was actually in San Francisco at the time.
2:44And so I got on a plane, not knowing if the deal was going to close and literally was on my laptop, sitting in the very back of the plane. It was the only seat that I could get last minute. I was in the very back of the plane and on the phone and all this stuff, right? Anyway, the deal closed and I was looking at my bank account, hitting refresh, refresh, refresh to see if the wire transfer had gone through. And as I'm not joking, this is not exaggeration. As we're taking off and sort of wheels up, I see the bank account balance change. And I close my laptop, you know, four and a half hours later, I land in New York.
3:22And the next day I and I didn't need to do this. I could have wired the money. This is just something I wanted to do for myself. But I walked around with paper checks in the breast pocket of my suit. And I went downtown and saw our bankers. And I paid them in person with a check. And my banker, a phenomenal guy named Sanjay Chadov, just a phenomenal banker in the mid-market tech space. He gave me a bottle of champagne, which was great. Then I went uptown with the bottle of champagne in tow. And I went to my lawyer's office and I paid them with a paper check, which they thought was odd, right? Because everybody does everything by wires, of course.
4:02But for me, it was nice. It was having that actual moment, those sort of moments of closure. And then I went and dropped off the bottle of champagne at a restaurant that I was going to go to that night with another friend of mine who was a great friend of mine who was also my lawyer. And then I went to our headquarters. So our company was headquartered at the Empire State Building. And I brought in all the employees one by one into the conference room and I gave them bonus checks, like big fat checks. And that was very, very rewarding and very meaningful to me. I had actually paid the taxes on all of their bonuses as well.
4:39So the check they got was tax free. So they got, they actually, you know, if you're getting a check for, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's nice if you don't have to pay taxes on it. Especially when you're a, you know, a 20 something or 30 something. and that was really moving and just incredible for me. And I'll never forget that. That was a phenomenal day. And then I went to dinner with my friend who was also a lawyer who was helping me on the deal the whole time. We opened the bottle of champagne. I gave him his check. We had a great dinner. I mean, it was just, it couldn't have gotten better.
5:08It was a lot of fun. So that was day one. But your question was more, how do I feel afterwards? And I was elated, completely elated. It was transformational and wonderful. But then we had to get into the work of integration and integrating the two companies and the employees and things like that. We were a very buttoned up suit and tie New York firm merging with a much more sort of low key, relaxed sort of culture Los Angeles firm. Right. So we had to sort of navigate cultural fits as well as technology management process, et cetera. So what happened next? Okay. So we went through the process of integration and part of the exit was provisions that I was allowed to run the business as we had ran it in the past, which was fantastic.
6:03So I had control for a two-year period over how things operated in our division. We delivered over 180 % of EBITDA for the target for the first year. So we were doing incredibly well for the acquirer, which was great. There were about five different lines of business within the combined business at that time. We were also preparing to go public as well. And so really having our heads down and focusing on EBITDA and our numbers, driving that so we could uplist to the NASDAQ was crucially important, which we did. So we went public the following year, which was a great experience for me and all my employees.
6:46And, you know, you're down there at the NASDAQ and, you know, you ring the bell and your faces are on the billboards and Times Square and all of our employees were there. I mean, that was a really phenomenal moment as well. It was great. Can we then start from the beginning? Sure. Why did you start Still Media? Well, I got fired from my job on my birthday. So I had a job in advertising and I had negotiated with the owner of that business, probably a deal that was a little too good for me and not good enough for the company. And I was making a lot of money and doing very well at that job. But the founder of that business, I think, got a little bit resentful and probably rightly so.
7:38I mean, I don't fault him. He was a very nice, very nice guy, very sweet guy. And for the record, he didn't know it was my birthday on the day that he fired me. But it was a bright, sunshiny October morning. And I got a phone call saying, you know, we're going to part ways. And I legitimately asked this guy at the time, I said, look, you know, are you sure? Because I was representing probably 70 % of the revenue for that business. Oh, wow. And so obviously I didn't want to lose my job at that point. But I also said to him, look, are you sure you want to fire me? because you're going to have some trouble.
8:18Anyway, but yeah, so I got fired at that time. And that was the impetus for me to start my own business. And that's when I started Steel Media, which is a digital advertising business. Well, you could have found another job. So there had to be some other motivation besides - I could have found another job. I talked to my dad. This was prior to me getting fired. And he said at one point, you're working really hard for other people. You're making a lot of other people wealthy, implying that I wasn't doing it for myself and I could probably strike out on my own. And that registered with me at the time.
9:01And then once I got fired from that one job, I thought, you know what, I might as well do this myself because I had my own clients and a good skillset. I understood that sort of digital was the way to go. The business was a sort of an analog plus digital business. And I was really focused on the digital side. I thought, you know what, I could really make a go with this. And I had nothing to lose. I wasn't married, didn't have kids, didn't have a mortgage. And a lot of people think it's very risky to start a business. It's a lot less risky when you have nothing to lose anyway. So yeah, so I struck out on my own and turned out all right.
9:37So financial freedom, was it part of your motivation and generally money? I didn't come from money or any kind of wealth. We didn't have a lot when I was growing up. And I left home at 17 and never came back and paid my way through college and all that stuff. And I never really had a safety net. So for me, I think being very honest, it was fear and greed, right? I was fearful of not having enough and not having that safety net. And I was greedy in the sense that I wanted to create wealth for myself and I wanted to have freedom and security. So I think those were more the motivations. Plus, I needed to do something and I needed to do something quick.
10:31how did this motivation change after you sold the company yeah so i think that you know a lot of times you do things for money right it's sort of maslow's hierarchy of needs as soon as your basic needs are are met you have the luxury to start thinking about your other needs wants and desires and after i sold the business and was you know financially set um you know, you have to ask yourself a really profound question, which is what do you choose to do when you don't have to do anything? And so my motivations became more external and less internal, right? I mean, when I was initially working, I was working for myself and to build wealth, like we were talking about.
11:20And then I had, you know, employees and employees with families and all the rest of it. So that burden was very, very heavy. But after that, after being sort of absolved of those responsibilities, the ability to choose the work and whether that's volunteer work or other kinds of work, the ability to choose that work was very, very freeing. So that's, I think, how it changed over time. So how do you think about money now? Yeah. So money is freedom. Wealth, it is important, right? I think there's a stigma in society about wealth and the wealthy and all that sort of stuff. But wealth is power. Wealth is influence.
12:11Wealth is charity. Wealth is optionality. Wealth is freedom. You know, money is not money. People don't sit around and bathe in a tub of dollar bills. It's a means to an end. And so for me, it's much more about freedom and choice than it is about fancy cars or things like that. When you were building still media, did you build it to sell it? Well, it wasn't intentional. It wasn't intentional until I had made that decision. In fact, I was in David Yaffe's class. So David Yaffe is an HBS professor of strategy. We had him together as a professor at HBS. And I was in his class at the OPM program, the Owner-President Management program.
13:03And it was the first year of our two-year journey at HBS. And he was talking about the race to the bottom in commodity businesses. and I was sitting in class and I said, oh my God, like that's me. That's my business. Like this is a race to the bottom. There were, there were larger incumbents coming in. We were experiencing margin compression, all the, all these classic things. Right. And when you see it from an outside perspective in a classroom, and I remember I sort of like my, my, you know, my stomach sort of dropped and I got like a cold sweat and I'm like, oh my God, this is my business. Right.
13:36So I immediately went to his office hours. Um, and he's actually, he's got a, he's got a beautiful office, overlooking campus, nice, nice, sort of rounded windows on this, in this corner office. And I sat down at a, at a table with him and I said, I sort of outlined what my experience was and what was happening. And he says, look, you need to either acquire technology for your business or you need to sell it. Like that was sort of the realization that we came to. He wasn't prescriptive about it, but that was, that was obvious. And so from that moment on, And that's when I started preparing the business for sale.
14:12And that was about a little over two year process. So it's all Professor Joff's fault. Actually, I give him all the credit. And he's a very funny guy. Every time I see him, I say, look, thank God, you know, we had that meeting. And, you know, I made this monumental decision when I was sitting with you in your office and all the rest of it. And he always looks at me and he goes, where's my check? So, yeah, no, he's a great guy. That was a pivotal decision. We did, as you mentioned, actually meet at the OPM program at the HBS. But unlike me, you are still involved. You are on the alumni association board.
14:52How is that working for you? Why are you doing that and what it gives you personally? Sure. So HBS, as we just talked about, really changed my life in a lot of ways. I thoroughly enjoyed the time on campus. I love the physical campus, the Georgian architecture. I thoroughly and completely enjoyed the friendships and the people that we both met during our time there. The learnings were absolutely phenomenal. So I feel a debt of gratitude to the organization and to the institution. And, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I feel the same way about New York City. I built my business largely in New York City.
15:44And, you know, there are certain things you can do in New York that you can't do anywhere else. Right. And so it's sort of an odd sensation to have a feeling of gratitude to an institution or a city or a place. But HBS was just a phenomenal and transformational experience for me. And to be able to be involved going forward on the board, on the alumni board, is fantastic. We're able to get updates about the school and budgeting and the priorities. And we meet with the dean and we see what's happening on the physical campus and the new buildings that they're building and digital transformation and TAC and how they're answering the challenges that sort of the new world of business is.
16:24presenting on a daily basis, it's just fascinating. It's being able to continue that connection with the school, meet a whole host of other former MBAs or OPMers or folks from PLD or AMP, all these other programs. There's a gentleman named Dan O 'Keefe, and he was the president of the alumni board up until last year. And when he was leaving, he said a few words to the folks on the board and he used the phrase, mountains I was never meant to climb. And that really resonated with me, right? Because I felt like this is, you know, these are mountains I was never meant to climb. And I'm just so grateful and so blessed to be able to be a part of it.
17:07It sounds like this activity is very firmly in your portfolio of interests. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Fantastic. So how would you compare your time in a private company and your time in the public company? When you're running a public company, you're spending a lot of time talking to analysts and you're spending a lot of time, you know, filling out your S1s and your 10Qs and your, you know all these sec forms and things like that so it's a different job there's a lot more paperwork regulation and process which i think is obviously a good thing um from a transparency perspective um but it's more conferences and analysts and you know talking your book and that sort of thing um without you know very very intentionally without saying anything that you shouldn't be saying forward-looking statements etc and um it's interesting because you know i I hadn't had several experience, but one stands out where I was at a conference and there was an analyst and we were, you know, we're having beers and, you know, he's buying me drink after drink.
18:10And he's I noticed he's asking me the same question in 10 different ways. And he's trying to get me to give him some sort of piece of information that he could leverage. Right. And so I, you know, sort of politely excuse myself. but it was just, it was, it was, it was startling and maybe I'm naive, but you know, I, I, I was, I was surprised that it, that was so rampant because it's obviously so forbidden, right? For, for, for them to do something like this. But of course, you know, I'm sure it happens all the times and as I've witnessed happens all the time. So yeah. So, so anyway, huge difference between running a public company and running a private company.
18:58And, you know, sitting on the board of a public company is a very weighty responsibility. At least that's how I approached it. And, you know, there are consequences, right, to your actions as a public company director. I'll stop there. But yeah, a wholly different job than running a private company. But you don't regret doing it? It was a phenomenal experience, right? I mean, it's like anything, right? It's like climbing a mountain, right? It's hard when you're doing it, but you look back after it's completed, you think, wow, what a great experience and what you've learned and sort of the skill set that you have and stuff like that.
19:38So no, absolutely don't regret that part of it at all. So despite all these different activities, you could not quite build a similar team that would satisfy you as well as the team at Steel Media? Yeah, absolutely. I would say that's absolutely correct. Yeah, I couldn't recreate it. I didn't necessarily try to, but I had certain attempts over time. But no, it's hard to recreate something like that. so you have a venture capital firm now so you're quite involved in other people's companies but that does not allow you to have that sense of a team sense of belonging as you did in your own business no you know what's so funny is so so so parsec venture that's a venture firm they have right now it's mostly tech mostly subscription-based tech so sass stuff some of them are just you know more passive investments and others are a little bit more active the thing that that that would most closely mirror my time with my first business is actually an off thesis investment that I made in a leadership company and it's called latitude 35 or lat 35.
20:53And so the CEO and I have regular calls and I feel like I'm able to provide a lot of value to, to him and, and, and, and, and, and growing that business and scaling and doing all the things that, that we do. And that has been probably the most fun and the most sort of akin to those, the feelings I was describing earlier, but still wholly different, right? It's somebody else running that business and it's more one-on-one, which I love. I mean, I really enjoy it, but it's just, it's very, very different. So you and I both eagerly agree that we are much better wealth creators than investors. Yes.
21:33You finally say that. Yet you chose to have a venture capital firm. Is it because you don't see it as fueling investment? It's actually a value creation exercise for you? Well, I mean, you sort of attempt it to be a value creation exercise and we've done okay over the years. And we just actually exited two investments recently and we're looking at a third, which will probably be Q2 of 24. So yeah, no, it's done okay, but it was born out of more an idea of being involved. And I think, like you said, we're better sort of wealth creators with our own businesses. And investing is hard. And I mean, you know, modern portfolio theory says you're going to have, you know, you got 20 investments, you have 10 that are going to lose money, you're going to have, you you know, eight or nine that are going to break even and one or two are going to return the fund, right?
22:31And then some. So, you know, that's the approach that you have to take. So it's a lot to manage all those investments. And for me, it's more now about having fun and providing value than it is about, you know, trying to hit more home runs. So in your portfolio of interest, What else gives you fun and, I guess, fulfillment, satisfaction? So I've always wanted to write a book. I wrote a book a couple of years ago, and that was a really fun experience because I got to do a lot of research for the book. So talking one-on-one with CEOs and professors, thought leaders, and that was an absolute blast.
23:16I loved that part of it. but it is writing is very solitary, right? Aside from those interviews, right? It's a lot of research. It's a lot of writing. It's a lot of introspection. So it's a very solitary endeavor. But it was, it was a lot of fun. I think like a lot of things, if I knew then what I know now, would I have done it? You know, hard to say. Everybody says, oh, are you going to write another book? And I say, you know, I don't know. I don't think so. Partly it's based out of fear, right? Because my, my first book called Elevated Economics, it really did. It did so well. It won book of the year in the economics category and it won all these other awards and it was very well received.
23:55And I was able to, you know, a top Amazon bestseller. And the fear part that I mentioned is I'd be sort of scared that my next book wouldn't do as well as the first book, right? I wouldn't have the same experience, things like that. So, so there's a little bit of cowardice there for sure. But it's also a ton of work. And I think I would like to do something that's less solitary with that time and more sort of team based. Do you have a similar feeling about starting a new business that it may not do as well? Is it one of the reasons why you don't do that? I mean, financially, I don't need to, which is great.
24:41As we all know, I mean, running a business is just a ton of work, at least the way that I did it. I know CEOs now who, you know, they're taking ski vacations all the time and it seems like they're sort of never at the office. And that was never my experience. I gave my late 20s to the business. I gave all of my 30s to the business. I gave some of my 40s to the business. I mean, it was, you know, it was a long slog. I I feel like there's sort of 20 years that I've, you know, piled into working 80 hours a week, right? Nights and weekends and, you know, not going out with friends and sacrificing all this stuff.
25:12And I definitely don't want to do it that way again. So I'd be much more inclined to maybe start a business or buy into an existing business with a partner, with an existing team, things like that. where my role would be very specific and less time consuming. But I'm also afraid that I'm kind of an all-in kind of guy. So once you sort of do something, I get all in. And I have a great life. I mean, I'm able to coach my son's baseball team and be there at all my daughter's volleyball games and help them with their schoolwork. And, you know, we have dinner as a family almost every night of the week.
25:56And, you know, I'm not willing to trade any of that. I mean, my family is too important. And the gift of time is an unbelievable gift. Do your children ever ask you why you don't have a normal 9 to 5 job? Well, actually, I mean, I'm usually gone. I'm out of the house from 9 to 5. I have, you know, I have an office downtown and all that stuff. So, and there's certainly enough going on. So no, we don't really talk about that. They ask me what I do and I, you know, I tell them about all the, all the various things and we have some great discussions about it. Our cadence as a family is, is, is pretty regular that way.
26:36What are the basic principles of your parenting? Like, are you trying, for example, to raise entrepreneurs or you're giving your, your kids complete freedom of choice, what they want to do? Sure, sure. So we have discussions about this all the time. There was a friend of mine who talked about his wife's parents being financially manipulative with their daughter, which was, you know, if you live in this city, we will help you buy a house. Or, you know, if you stay in school, we will pay your bills, right? That sort of thing. And that really struck a chord with me. And I hope that I'm never that parent.
27:18we actually developed a family crest of our values, which is it sits on our everyone. Everyone has one of these family crests in front of them as we eat dinner every night. This is this is it. I can send it to you in a PDF. But that's it. I love it. And so we talk about four quadrants of life, which are health first. Right. I love the saying that, you know, a healthy man wants many things, a sick man wants but one. Yeah. And so we talk about health, integrity, hard work, and wealth. And we talk about wealth and it's specifically on that crest because it is important, like I said before, right?
28:01It is power and influence and the ability to have some freedom and choice in your life and things like that. So we do talk about that. We talk about charity quite a bit as well. And in the center is this is, as you can see, it says, you know, happiness, which and then it says, you know, love, laugh and be together. And the very bottom is make good decisions, right? Because we're trying to have our kids do all of these things. So every night at dinner, we talk about, you know, what our day was like, what we're grateful for, what we're looking forward to, and what on the on this family crest is resonating with us at the at that present moment.
28:35And it might be that something happened at school with the kids or something happened at work, etc. etc. And then so we can talk about those issues as well. So parenting for us, I think is very, I hate to use that word intentional, because it's so everybody says all the time, but it is very intentional, we really think about it. And I don't have aspirations for my children to do any one thing, be an entrepreneur, go to Harvard, or be a rocket scientist, or an astronaut or something. but I want them to do what they enjoy, but do, do it well, right? Have some ambition in life, want to do something, whatever that thing is and do it well and all that sort of stuff.
29:16So, and I hope that they get enjoyment and fulfillment and satisfaction and joy really out of, out of their pursuits. What about you and your wife? How did you maintain a happy marriage through all these different, uh, interesting events you had in life, building a business, selling a business, Yeah, no, it's tough. So my wife actually worked in the business. So she left her job. She was a television producer doing national news in New York. She had a great job. She would go and interview the president. And she had, you know, Colin Powell in her Rolodex and the president of the United States and Oprah.
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29:51And I mean, it was just she had a really incredible, fun, fun job. And she left that job to support me and this business. And she worked in that business doing accounting, collections, finances. And it was great. It was really helpful. I really trusted her. And we really bonded over that. Some people can sort of cleave their relationship. But we really bonded over that. I think if I'm being very truthful, after selling the business, I believe there was an expectation on her side that like, okay, well, now it's done, right? It's kind of like there was that moment in the movie Free Solo about this guy who climbs mountains without ropes.
30:31And he has a girlfriend. And so he climbs El Capitan in Yosemite. And he completes it. He does it. Spoiler alert. He doesn't die. He doesn't fall down. And he calls his girlfriend when he's literally at the top of the mountain after he's just completed. And she says words to the effect of like, yay, like, thank goodness. Now you're done. which I think sort of betrays this disconnect in their relationship. Like, this is who he is. This is what this guy does. He's not, by no means is he done. And I think I did a bad job of talking about that with my wife and sort of discussing what was next and what I wanted out of life and how this was going to play out.
31:14And so her expectation was sort of like, yay, it's done right now. We're going to have all this time and all this sort of stuff. And I was, you know, obviously hard charging on integration and things for the next two years and taking a company public and all that stuff. So it was sort of the same cadence of intensity. But then after that, our expectations were mismatched. And I did a bad job of communicating that and sort of stepping up. So navigating through that, it's very tricky. So we do on Monday mornings, we set aside a half an hour to do a check-in, no kids, you know, and that has been very important and very helpful.
31:53and I'm somebody who doesn't really like to open up contrary to what it might seem like on this. I'm happy to talk about business. But so challenging myself to open up and also realizing that that's a good thing and it's healthy for our relationship. So yeah, by no means smooth sailing, but such is life. And I think that it's a process of growing and learning and having compassion and stepping into the other person's shoes, which I'm not necessarily good at. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. I should start a podcast and interview you because every question you ask me, I want to ask you the same question, but I know that's not the sort of roles that we're in right now, but I think you'd have a lot of questions for me too.
32:43Maybe one day you will. When you're bored of all the million activities, you already do it, right? Yeah, maybe, maybe. You mentioned the White House, and I know you've been involved as well at the White House Business Council. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah. So I've been doing that for probably nine or 10 years, something like that. And it's phenomenal. So we have fly-ins and fly-outs. So a fly-in is where myself and other business leaders will meet at the White House. We're either in the White House itself or in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which is right next door. And we're meeting with senior officials discussing economic problems, innovation issues, things like that.
33:28So that has been over time really exhilarating, very fun. It's, you know, again, you think about these mountains, you're not meant to climb. Like you step inside the White House and you're there, like, again, not as a tourist. You know, you're there to provide feedback and guidance and give your input. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's incredible. So I'm very grateful for that, those experiences. and, you know, got to meet the president and be in the same room with Obama and Biden. And it's, you know, it's been phenomenal. You know how it is, right? From one opportunity comes another opportunity.
34:09I was lucky enough to be able to work on innovation policy and economic competitiveness during the Biden campaign. And, you know, that was phenomenal. I found a lot of people that were very humble and hardworking and, you know, that didn't sort of talk bad about the other side and all this stuff. It was very, it was actually kind of surprising to me. And I don't necessarily identify myself as a really a political person more than just somebody who's interested in these issues. and I hold ideas and beliefs that are on sort of both sides of the aisle in American politics. But those experiences have been absolutely phenomenal.
34:54And I look forward to continuing those and some of these other pursuits. So, Richard, not only we met at an academic institution, and that was, what, 12 years ago. It seems to me that since then you never stop doing some other form of education. usually some big name schools water than stanford and the um can you tell me more about that and why you're doing it and what you're getting out of it yeah um i did mention the the concept of of lifelong learning and i know that might almost be a a cliche um but i really have enjoyed um those sort of continuing education experiences. So I went through a program for corporate director certification, and I had the opportunity that, you know, HBS has one, Northwestern has one, Stanford has one, there are a few others.
35:53And then there's some, you know, for-profits that have them too, specifically NACD and ACCD. But I wanted to go back to an educational institution to do one of those. So I did choose the Stanford program, and it's a week-long program, specifically for corporate directors on Stanford campus. And it was absolutely phenomenal. The quality of the folks that we, I mean, we had folks from Disney and Visa and we had a retired admiral from the Navy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, just absolutely incredible. So that was very interesting. And I just, you know, for me, it's always about the Rumsfeld quote, right?
36:27If we have our known knowns, we have our unknown knowns, we have our known unknowns, and then we have our unknown unknowns. And to me, the unknowns are the things that I don't know that I don't know. And so I want to be the best director that I can. I want to be the best mentor that I can. I want to be the best investor that I can. And so that's why I did the corporate director certification. um i uh i i'm a a huge fan of hbs um so i will say that that the the way that things were done at stanford versus the way that that um i was conditioned that that things are done at hbs are uh is very very different um so it was that was that was good to see culturally um and then i would say um after writing my book which was really about changing investor and consumer behavior.
37:20I wanted to understand sustainable investment more. So I did a certification with the US SIF. So I've done a lot of this continuing education stuff. And I do find it very, very interesting and beneficial. And I do think that it helps me sort of get to the next level. So yeah, I'd recommend that sort of stuff for anybody. Happy to chat with anybody who wants to know more about that stuff too. Brilliant. Brilliant. That's very helpful. Thank you. So tell me, why did you write your book? Well, so two reasons. Number one, I'd always just wanted to write a book. So that was just something that it was an itch that I wanted to scratch.
38:01And I was having, specifically within the context of YPO, which we talked about earlier, I was having a lot of discussions, whether it was in forum or outside of the forum experience, with YPOers about how to navigate all these myriad challenges that we see in business, right? This sort of the dawning of the age of ESG and DEI and consumers and investors really demanding more and expecting more of leaders. And so I wanted to delve into that. What were the reasons behind that? What was this sort of changing environment that was making these conditions ripe for this sort of change? What does that mean for YPO?
38:46So I'm a huge capitalist. I do believe that corporate America specifically has the opportunity to change the world for the better. And my personal motto, which I've thought long and hard about, is to affect positive change at scale. And I think the at scale part is really influenced by large companies taking a stand and doing the right thing. Taking a stand where appropriate. Let me sort of caveat that. And so I wanted to explore these ideas. And so that was sort of the genesis for the book. So I had this seed idea of like, I want to write this book. Here are the things that I talk about all the time, but I don't necessarily have more time than, you know, sort of a typical conversation takes to delve deeper into these things.
39:37I finally had the time. Well, I didn't really have the time, but I made the time to do it. And it was fascinating, like I mentioned before. So that's sort of the genesis behind it. So on a more practical level, how did writing a book fit into your overall strategy after you sold your business? I didn't have a personal strategy after I had sold the business because I was involved in other things after selling the business and then with Nuco and Public Company and all the stuff we've talked about. It was just something I'd always wanted to do. And sometimes you just have to put a stake in the ground and say, I'm going to do this, right?
40:15And so - You finally had the time. Yeah, it was funny. I'd like to say that kind of like I mentioned before, I didn't really have the time. There were a lot of like very, very late nights, right? That I didn't anticipate, but I had more time than I had, than I guess I had had before. So, so that was great. And it was really a passion project and I had no idea what to expect. I didn't know about marketing and the media tour and press. And I mean, I, it was, it was, it was a really new, engaging sort of learning curve for me. I loved it. On your LinkedIn profile, it says that you are a CEO, board member, author speaker and then optimist yeah that is my favorite how did you come up with that one well um all those things are true um and it's funny because i i don't have any social media whatsoever i don't have uh uh x or uh facebook or instagram or snapchat i mean i have nothing I have absolutely nothing.
41:23But I do have LinkedIn. There are all things that we've done, right? We are these things or we were these things in our past lives. We have been these things at certain times over our lives. But I've been an optimist my whole life. And I think that that is something that is a character trait that you have to have when you're leading an organization, leading people, leading a family. And if you don't have that, what's the point, right? Like I said, when we're sitting around as a family, we talk about what we're grateful for and what we're looking forward to. And the looking forward to part is important because there always needs to be something to look forward to, right, to drive you forward.
42:09And I think that that word optimist encompasses that belief as well. It doesn't mean that you're naive about the world or circumstances or how hard things might be and what the headwinds look like, but that you are optimistic that with the right people and the right attitude that you can get through those headwinds. And I think that that's just so, so, so important. Probably all the people that listen to this are in the same or similar position to you and I where we've exited a business. We don't have to do anything. We don't have to do anything at all, right? We could watch Netflix all day. but I think being an optimist about various aspects of life, whether it's personal, professional, et cetera, is just, it's critically, critically important.
43:07And I don't do a good job of it every day. I don't do a good job of it every week or every month, but I think that it's important. So it's a, it's a, it's a trigger for me to see that and remember that that is who I need to be as well as who I think that I am. So it sounds like you've given quite a lot of thought to your identity and who you are. Is there anything else in your identity that you could share or your thinking how you went through this? Because it's one of those things that all exited founders have to go through. Yeah, so there are people who have thought deeper about this than I have.
43:47And there are people that are phenomenal social scientists and psychologists that have thought long and deeply about all this stuff. And I think there's Arthur Brooks is a great author. He writes in the Atlantic. He's written two books. One of his books is called Strength to Strength. And his other, the more recent book is called Build the Life You Want. And he actually came to speak to the Harvard Business School Alumni Board. So we had time with Arthur a couple of years ago. And that was really very impactful for me. And Strength to Strength is a book that everybody should read, especially every single person who listens or sees this should read.
44:26And it basically talks about, you know, career transition and I'll summarize it poorly, but basically in your early phases of life, the way that your brain works is ideally suited to solve novel problems. And as you age, your brain chemistry and physiology changes. So you move from what's called fluid intelligence to crystallized intelligence. And crystallized intelligence is more your wisdom and your experience. So relying on that. So trying to do the same thing that you did in your 20s and 30s and maybe early 40s that you're now going to attempt to do in your 40s, 50s, 60s is probably not the best idea.
45:08And so relying on crystallized intelligence versus fluid intelligence as you age is a way to realize more happiness, more joy, more fulfillment in life. Anyway, so basically, I would say that there are people that have done the research and are smarter than I am about this stuff. And I think that relying on their work and their research would be a better answer than I could ever give. especially arthur brooks yeah you know strength to strength comes up in our discussion in the community quite often and i noticed that some people actually find it depressing because they think oh it's over for me yeah well other people find it liberating and encouraging me included because you you think oh i can actually ride that second wave even you know better with more fun with more meaning i absolutely love it i'm happy you mentioned it yeah no look i was just on campus for one of the board meetings, maybe three weeks ago.
46:12And after the board meeting, there's the reunion programming. Now, so it wasn't my reunion year, but I could go to the reunion programming anyway, as a member of the board. And so I actually, my son, my nine-year-old son said, you know, months and months in advance, he's like, Hey, you know, can we come to, you know, I'd love to see campus. And he'd never been on campus before. And so we got to, I finished the board meeting and then they came in the next day and we went to some reunion programming. And there was a class, there was a class about happiness that followed the Harvard longitudinal study, which was phenomenal.
46:40And there was another one on family wealth. So I was able to take my kids on campus and go to these classes. It was phenomenal. And in the happiness class, the sort of the issue was brought up about what you're saying and sort of, you know, is this depressing or is this liberating? And for me, using that sort of crystallized intelligents, that wisdom and experience over time. I teach a class at the university here about failure, right? So I go through all the failures in my life and business and all the rest of it. It's a very difficult thing for me to do, but I think it's very valuable. And it's fairly emotional as well.
47:16But the ability that I've had to be able to actually provide real value to other entrepreneurs, folks in real businesses, making real money, right? Employing real people has been incredibly gratifying to me. So I think that much like you, for me, it's very energizing to be able to rely on that crystallized intelligence and that experience to help others not make the same mistakes that I did, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah. So talking about failures, what was the most impactful, consequential failure in your life? Oh, wow. So many to choose from.
48:09I've been very, very lucky and I don't really look back with a ton of regret. Of course, I have them. But I would say it would be more on the personal side than the business side. And it would be much more when I was younger rather than in my professional life. So it was sort of that, you know, not treating people the way that I would have want to be treated. Not following the golden rule, right, when I was probably in my maybe teens or 20s. I think is probably my biggest regret, right? Not caring for people that were close to me as well as I should have looking back on it. So I would say that that's probably my biggest personal failure and deep regret as well.
49:13You know, it's so interesting because my answer would be not expressing gratitude enough, especially early in life. I think yours is actually quite similar to that. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. So have you ever had the feeling of being lonely at the top? Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. Absolutely. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I never had a mentor or a formal board or anything like that. And my first company, I've since changed that with other companies and endeavors and things like that. But yeah, I was always sort of inventing the wheel. Yeah, of course, very low. And nobody has, nor should they, empathy for people who are making a lot of money and at the top and have this power and prestige and influence and all the rest of it.
50:10I mean, it's, I think, maybe appropriately lonely at the top, but that's what YPO is for and organizations like EO or HBS has, I think they have, I think they call it HBS forums or HBS circles or something like that. So yeah, no, I think that everybody should seek out a personal board of advisors in whatever capacity. So that's basically the way you solve it for yourself, finding these peer groups, essentially. Yeah, I get a lot of sort of soul-enriching nourishment, discussing of problems and burying my soul and airing my grievances and whatnot with folks in and out of YPO or other circles. And I have a decent enough friend group as well.
51:06So, yeah. yeah now but you know that was not the case that was not the case earlier so do you think post-exit founders in particular are more often feel lonely oh absolutely um a couple years ago i went to this um seminar put on by a guy who runs uh crestone capital and he he has this great presentation about you know sort of post-exit founders and he shows this slide where you've got your calendar when you were working and your calendar after you sell your business and one's full and one's completely empty. And it was just, it just, and you know, I was going more as like, you know, Hey, this will be fun.
51:45What, you know, I went as a sort of a lark and it was great. I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Kind of everything you were saying. There's a Yale study and then framework and matrix that people can use after the exit as far as like what they're going to do next. I actually, before I even found that I made my own personal matrix about what I love to do, what I hate to do, what I'm good at, what I'm bad at, right? Sort of that Venn diagram. And then what I already have enough of, what are my qualities? What are my aspirations? How much time do I have? Crystallized intelligence versus fluid intelligence.
52:19How can I change the world for the better? What are the opportunities that exist? What would I love to do? And then some other factors. So I actually made a matrix for myself and sort of filled that out. And that helped as a sort of a guidepost. And there's lots of other activities people can do. Yeah, brilliant. So how do you choose people you surround yourself with now? Yeah, very, very carefully. Very, very carefully. So and actively seeking out positive, uplifting, but also interesting and dynamic people. that's, I think, pretty easy to do in the circles that we travel in. You and I, as well as probably all the folks listening.
53:08And so that's great. But being really specific, it was funny. My wife emailed me the other day. We were joking about this last night. And she says, you know, I'd like to go out with, you know, these three couples. And I emailed her back and I said, how about this other couple? Like, basically, can we trade? Because I don't like any of these people well enough. And they're all fine and decent people. But I'm very, very, very specific and very particular. And I would say one thing else to anybody who is an introvert. I didn't know that I was an introvert for a long time. And I heard a definition that resonated with me, which was introverts are simply people who recharge their batteries by being alone.
53:50It doesn't mean that they don't like people, groups of people, lots of people. But after you have an experience with a group and a lot of people, you need to recharge by being alone. And I was like, wow, that's me. Like, that is absolutely me. So I think sort of two things in concert. Number one is surround myself with uplifting, interesting, engaging, like fascinating people who are positive and realize that it is okay for me to go and recharge my batteries myself. myself, right? And I'm in a relationship with somebody who is an extrovert, right? So the finding a balance between go, go, go and do everything all the time versus having the opportunity to recharge is sort of a constant back and forth.
54:35It's not a bad thing, but it's just something that needs to be openly discussed, which we do, which is great. Whom do you want to be when you grow up?
54:46that's such a great question um i don't know i didn't prepare that in advance um i always sort of i have this thought that like if i died tomorrow like don't feel bad for me i've had the most amazing life and you know i mean hbs and the white house and writing a book and traveling all over the world i mean it's like you know selling a business public company like it's crazy it's absolutely, absolutely ridiculous. So I feel like I've lived many lifetimes already. So as far as like who I want to be when I grow up, I just, I want to be somebody who is seen as kind to others and what they call it, you know, a standup guy, right?
55:26Somebody who does the right thing, even when it's difficult or unpopular. I think that's how I would want to be remembered. I would like to keep a breadth of interests and help as many people as I can. I just joined the board of the Red Cross for the Pacific region in the United States. And so I want to continue to affect positive change at scale by helping as many people as I can. And whether that's entrepreneurs one-on-one with, you know, our, our, our venture portfolio, fine. Um, but if it's also, you know, helping charitable endeavors and people that are affected by disasters, but, you know, fine.
56:06And if, and if it's, um, you know, I work with this charity called C international, where you can make a blind person C for$4 and 80 cents, right. In India and Nepal and Bangladesh. I mean, it's unbelievable, right. So to be able to give the gift of sight to folks, that's incredible. So there's all these opportunities out there. And I want to keep on exploring those. But I want to have my life shift to be focused on helping others and not doing things specifically for material gain for myself. Okay. Talking about that, how do you stay fit and healthy? Okay. um so yeah um i work out uh every day um i meditate every day for at least five minutes um i do yoga uh i play i think play is is is is fun um i know it's very cliche but i play pickleball and i really like it um yeah i've just started doing yoga actually which is which is which is great i have some neck issues and some some migraine stuff and so that that sort of uh that helps.
57:11Um, yeah, I try and sleep as much as I can. Um, unapologetically, um, my wife and I have a routine where she's an early bird and I'm a night owl. And so we, we divide our responsibilities. Like I'll put the kids to bed and take the dog out and clean up the house at the end of the day. And she'll go to bed very early and she's up early. So she takes the dog out, gets the kids to school. Right. So we sort of have, um, that sort of symbiosis, which is, is very, very good. right? I'm very specific about what I eat and I meal, so on Sundays I meal prep for the week and make salads. No, I do all this sort of stuff.
57:47My kids think I'm crazy, but yeah, you know, don't eat sugar, limit my caffeine intake to basically one cup of coffee a day. You know, all this sort of stuff that we, that we learn over time, right? So mostly a plant-based diet and, you know, try and stay away from, from all the bad stuff. I don't eat sugar. I don't drink alcohol at all. Um, especially cause I get these migraines and that's a bit of a trigger. So all those things, you know, again, I can look at it like, Oh, what was me? I don't get to drink alcohol. But what I tell my kids is look, this is a gift, right? Alcohol is a problem for a lot of people.
58:19And for me, it can't be a problem because I can't drink it. Otherwise it'll trigger these migraines. So I can either, you know, be what was me about it and, or I can change my outlook and say, Hey, this is a gift. I'm healthier. I sleep better. And it's going to prevent me from getting, you know some of these terrible headaches and stuff like that so if i ever have like a calendar conflict and it's conflicting with something that is related to my health i'll always choose that over whatever the other thing is that might be business related or seemingly urgent or whatever health first health first health first it's really amazing that we actually do it all the right things because we all know what they are i try i mean i had a pop-up last night So that brings me to the last question.
59:02Go ahead. What keeps you up at night? Usually it's something to do with our kids. I don't get too distressed about professional pursuits or business things and stuff like that. I think I have a, my wife would probably call it a unique ability to not worry. I don't really worry about too much of the small stuff. And I think focusing on the little things, we have this, there's only one saying in our house that is visible. And it says, enjoy the little things in life for someday you will realize they are the big things. And, you know, it's a little cheesy, but it's definitely true, right? So, you know, going outside and taking a walk or, you know, throwing the ball around with my son.
59:53My son doesn't know this, but my rule to myself is every time if he asks me, do you want to throw the ball around? I say yes. It doesn't matter if I'm tired, sick, it's dark outside, it's cold, whatever it is. If you ever ask me that question, I always say yes. um and that's that's as a result of understanding that it is those little things in in life you know that uh that really make up what your life is right the things that we do on a daily basis are who we become and they are our relationships right um and so i think putting those trying to put those first and i don't i don't do a job a good job at at any of this necessarily but like at least I try, right?
1:00:37And I think that that's, those are the ingredients for a good life for me. Richard, thank you so much. It was absolutely amazing. So much. You asked good questions. Thank you so much. I mean, you know, who doesn't like to sit on the phone for an hour and talk about themselves, right? So it's a very heady process, but I really appreciate it. This is a lot of fun. You were a perfect guest, as I said. You were really a perfect guest. Thank you. Thank you. That's very, very kind of you. I really appreciate being on your show.
From the publisher
My guest today is Richard Steel. Since he sold his business - Steel Media - over 10 years ago, Richard embarked on a remarkable journey. He led a public company, authored a book, provided counsel to the White House, joined the Harvard Business School Alumni Board and established a philanthropic fund. His unique philosophy emphasizes the creation of what he calls a "portfolio of interests".
