"Clean" medicine and non-ultraprocessed soda

0:00Welcome back to another episode of The Curious Consumer. I'm Nate. I'm Jenna. And this week we got some fun stories, but I want to first start. Jenna, have you tried anything fun this week or recently? Yeah, I know. We are constantly trying fun new products and we always forget to talk about it on the podcast. Where we do talk about it is our newsletter on Fridays. We send something called weekly pickups and we share our favorite thing we tried every week but we can add not what we will share in our weekly pickups but another find I think we'll share so many finds oh my god so many so yeah I have actually this is gonna come as a shock to no one but I've really been enjoying the coconut cult's new mini cups I have too and I was kind of surprised by it so coconut cult is a dairy-free coconut cream that is packed with probiotics kind of like similar to it.

0:59I thought it would be similar to a yogurt, but it's really not. And also it has way more probiotics than yogurt does. You can't really have too much in one sitting. No, you can only have half, but they just, so Coconut Colt has a Colt following, pun intended, for their glass jars that have been around for a few years now, but you could only have one tablespoon of them at a time and they were like$10 and there were eight servings in them so they launched these mini cups and three flavors my favorite actually is a tie between the lemon meringue and the banana cream they're both so good they are dessert like i can't believe that i'm like this is kind of a supplement like it's like taking probiotics it's live probiotic cultures hidden in this like delicious cream it's so good it's so good like pie filling i i really like the banana one i just love banana stuff i was honestly surprised i enjoyed it yeah because i think dairy free yogurt has given it a bad rap but like because dairy free yogurt is not always the best although there are some exceptions to that rule also but it's not yogurt it's like a dessert pudding with probiotics crazy so that's my answer what have you tried this week that you're liking okay a few things so I I finally tried the new David bar the bronze bar yes I really liked them so the s'mores one is my favorite the peanut butter one I wish was more peanut buttery but the texture was great it was almost a mix between the built puff bar and the bear bells normal bar like oh so like a marshmallowy like a marshmallowy nougatty center and it's like thick and it takes up like the entire thing like I posted a TikTok about it and I showed a side cross section cross section exactly and I was genuinely surprised how easy it was to eat it wasn't too chewy it was really a happy medium between a lot of the bars in my opinion and I wouldn't say it was like candy it's like texturally it's like like like a candy bar sure it's not really that sweet but i thought it was good and it tasted a lot less like artificial like i was i was surprised how much i like that bar okay definitely wanna get my hands on it how do you feel about the fact that it's eight grams fewer protein than the og david bar that is disappointing to me especially because it's thicker yeah well it's higher it may be less thick less dense because it's airy or it's more aerated no because an og david bar is dense yes for sure yeah the other definitely tastes like a supplement like it doesn't taste like a food no yeah yeah exactly the other thing i did today is i made i think the most protein dense toast i've ever had so i took hero bread which is five grams of protein a slice i did two tablespoons of peanut butter on each from One Trick Pony.

4:09And that's eight grams of peanut butter. Such good peanut butter. On each. And then I did two tablespoons of Bam Jam, which is a new protein jam made with bovine collagen. So like each piece of toast was like 20 grams of protein. Oh my God. You really protein maxed your PB &J. That's like a convergence of all the trends, the PB &J trend and the protein trend. And I felt so satisfied after eating those. I thought you were going to be like, I felt so ill. No, I feel great. Amazing. It was awesome. Between your David wreck and your protein toast, I didn't pin you as such a protein maxer. Don't I look it?

4:52Yep. Sure do. Shall we get into some of the news? Let's. The stuff we discussed this week. um so one thing we discussed in our newsletter was operator cpg operator led uh celebrity brands and one of them that launched recently is guillermo salsa guillermo is guillermo as in jimmy kimmel's 20 plus years sidekick on the jimmy kimmel live show he co-founded a salsa brand with chris kirby who is the founder of ithaca hummus ithaca did have a salsa but they discontinued it back in 2023. And it's interesting because it goes discontinued salsa looks a lot like this one. It is also a square container and a fresh salsa.

5:42So in the refrigerated section and not like a jarred shelf stable situation. Yeah. So that brand launched a little over a week ago now, but what we thought was really interesting is we've just started to see a slew of these brands that are celeb CPG brands, which there is no shortage of celebrity founded CPG brands, but they are publicly co-founded by someone who has run a CPG brand in the past. So not just like someone who, you know, has some experience in CPG, but either a former founder or a former leader, like someone in leadership. So the other examples of this Stiller Soda is obviously ben stiller and ben stiller teamed up with alex doman who was the ceo and co-founder of a non-alcoholic beverage called a vec and then the other brand that we were interested in and we talked a little bit more about this week because they had some news is tom holland the famous actor tom holland spider-man spider-man duh tom holland's non-alcoholic beer brand which he co-founded with John Herman, who is the former chief commercial officer and president at Nutribolt, who's the owner of the energy drink C4 Energy.

6:59So he has direct beverage experience as well. I know that behind every celeb brand, there are a ton of former CPG operators, but they're not usually public or like co-founded with a former CPG operator. So that was something that we were interested in. We think that these are brands that really have legs in a way that the traditional celebrity CPG brand where it's kind of like a celeb ambassador or like someone who came on after the product already existed. They don't really hold the same weight. So we talked to all the founders. They had really interesting things to say. They're in the newsletter.

7:35You should totally read it. But as I mentioned, Bureau in particular had news this week, which is that But they just raised from private equity. So Bureau raised, I don't actually think we know how much. No, it's not disclosed. But we know the valuation of the company now, which is a little over$100 million. Which is wild because Bureau launched last year. This is its first year on shelves. It's so recent. So recent. It did nearly$10 million in sales in one year on shelf. And this funding from this private equity firm is evidently going to increase distribution. The team will get bigger. But one thing I found that was really interesting is that they're really hoping to increase distribution, particularly in restaurants and bars, which makes a lot of sense for the non-alcoholic beer segments.

8:25and John Herman, who's this co-founder who is formerly at C4 Energy, said that the on-premise channel, so being in restaurants and bars, is hopefully going to account for 15 to 20 percent of their sales in the long term. But yeah, just having someone like John Herman on board who is able to speak publicly about the brand because he's not just a co-founder that they push behind the scenes because they want the celeb to shine enables us to even have news like this. Right. And I remember when I went to their launch party, I got to speak with John and Tom and they both were like, yeah, we formulated this from scratch.

9:04Like they both were involved in this brand. like negative, negative year one, which to your point, it makes it such a different type of brand. It makes it a very, very legitimate brand. That's not just some extension of Tom that's effectively merch. It is a legitimate competitor in the non-alc beer space. And especially now with Athletic and some other NA beers really establishing the market, Bureau has a real chance to get even bigger and they have great distribution they're a target and with Tom just becoming more and more famous with the Odyssey coming out this summer his reach is going to expand a lot more and also expand beyond just maybe young people who like him as Spider-Man or who know him as Zendaya's uh are they married partner I partner Zendaya's partner so I yeah I I think it's great.

10:02And I think it could be a real competitor in the NA beer space, especially as they lean into more of the restaurant distribution. Yeah. And to your point, one of the things that John said when we interviewed him, I asked if there were any challenges to having a celeb co-founder, because we talk a lot about how it provides opportunities, it opens doors. All of that feels kind of obvious to me. But one of the challenges he mentioned is kind of what you were saying. Like it's people are still perceiving this in a way as an extension of Tom. And so they have a hard time gauging when a partner comes to them.

10:38Are you trying to just get access to Tom? Are you trying to get access specifically to this product? Or do you think you'd be a good partner for this product? And I think that that is such an interesting and unique challenge and a challenge that can only be had by a clearly product driven company. And I don't think a lot of the people who critique these celebrity brands necessarily think about that aspect of it where like, oh, you know, they have the founder. So obviously they can get into any retailers, but they also just might want to meet that celebrity and get them in. And they don't realize that like they can't always do that.

11:15And the brand also needs legs on its own. And I think that's where also these ones are stronger brands is because they can theoretically exist without the founder. And also to your point, retailers are like so excited to get this product in because there's a celeb behind them that the other challenge actually that Alex from Stiller's told us that sometimes these brands have is that a celeb brand demands scale immediately because it's like, oh, Ben Stiller launched a soda and I can only find it in Wisconsin. Like that is a bad look for Ben Stiller. So it demands this scale that most products, they can try at a small scale and iterate and try again and build momentum slowly.

11:59Whereas these celeb brands have to like just out the gate, be everywhere all at once, which is really hard to maintain. So as many perks as there are to having a celeb co-founder, there are also some really interesting, unique challenges. And I am grateful to the co-founders of these brands who were so transparent about them. Yeah, that was great. And definitely check out the deep dive in our recent newsletter. We'll link it below. It's called Building the Perfect Celebrity Brand. But definitely go read it. It's really interesting. And if you have comments, please let us know. We want to learn more.

12:32Let's move on to our next story about Spindrift becoming the first beverage company to receive receive the non-UPF, aka ultra processed food certification this week. Jenna, I know you got to talk to our friends at Spindrift about that. Our favorite guy over there, John. Tell us a little bit more. Sure. So yeah, I got to chat a little bit with John Silverman, who is the Senior Vice President of Innovation and Business Development over at Spindrift. He's got the best job. His job was so cool oh my god so cool we got to get we'll get him on the pod at some point we should but yeah i asked him kind of just why this was so important for the brand and there are a lot of reasons one of the most interesting things he was saying to me is that as a brand they have been tracking like not i don't even want to say health trends but health guidance forever they're a better for you brand this is something they care about and i'm not going to get too much into like the details of this.

13:34So there's this food classification system called NOVA. And NOVA is how people classify whether something is ultra processed or not. And NOVA is a little tricky for a consumer packaged goods product to ever fit the definition of. Like it's really hard to make a product that is commercially viable is packaged and checks off every mark that makes this count as a non-ultra processed food because there's some processing that is going to go into a product that lands on a shelf. There just is. And so that has been challenging to them because they're like, we know this is better for you. Spindrift is only made with fruit juices.

14:17So it's not made with any non-nutritive sweeteners. It's not nothing artificial or funky. It's just made with fruit juices, but they have to do things to the fruit juice to get it in there. So the other thing on Nova, fun fact, is that anything carbonated is technically an ultra processed food because the process of carbonation is a process. And so I know. So Spindrift is already a non-GMO brand and the people behind non-GMO classification are those who actually made the non ultra processed food non-UPF verification so they've been long-term partners of the non-GMO folks and they heard that they were starting this non-UPF classification and got in touch and this is a way more approachable classification than Nova food classification is for specifically CPG products the goal being that brands can actually put non-UPF on their packaging so this is something that Spindrift has been doing forever.

15:25They don't make their sparkling waters or sodas from any concentrated juice, no non-nutritive sweeteners, but they had no good way of communicating that. And so non-UPF verification is validating this thing that they've always been doing. And now they have kind of some words that they think will resonate with people more than just being like, we use real fruit juice, which a lot of people claim, and they also use other things or whatever it is. Yeah. One thing that I find very interesting about this too is like Spindrift is owned by private equity currently. And there's a lot of discourse around brands being scooped up and run and acquired by private equity.

16:07It's very interesting that like, this doesn't feel like a PE move. This feels very like a natural extension for this brand, whether they're owned by PE or not. Spindrift feels like a very good example of a brand that's not being quote unquote ruined by a PE acquisition. Yeah. This seems like a very notable addition to the brand that feels very in line with their mission and their goals. I agree. It's really interesting. And this is, as we said, the first beverage with this verification because it's brand new. There were 16 other brands within the pilot program. And we're going to start seeing this on packages.

16:45So you will see next to where you see maybe non-GMO, organic, all of those little icons of certifications. You will also start to see non-UPF. And something else I asked John because I was like, well, do consumers even know or care about this? And he was like, I don't know yet. But we want to be at the forefront when they do start to care, first of all. And the balance with this is he wants non-UPF to still be exclusive enough that only certain brands can achieve these standards. But he also wants other beverage brands to get verified so that it becomes a movement and people are seeking out these products.

17:31Because if they're the only brand that ever gets verified, no one will ever know it exists. So it's one of those interesting early mover problems. But yeah, just very cool to watch out for this verification. I will like asterisk that any verification brands have to pay for them. These organizations make a lot of money on brands meeting these standards. So I don't know how they shift around those standards so that they're easier to meet or harder, whatever it is. I don't, I can't speak to any of that. So that's like a caveat, I guess I would say with these verification programs, they're not as simple as some like holy figure coming down and being like, I bless this product non-UPF.

18:12they're monetized crazy so that's something to keep in mind but yeah if you buy their soda in stores tomorrow you should see the non-upf verification logo on there it's not going to be their sparkling water yet but they're prioritizing soda which also makes sense yeah so very interesting to speak to an early an early mover in this but yeah if we want to move on to the next story. I would love to move on. This one is... It sounded so sassy. Okay. So this is not an edible story. It's a smelly story, though. We got lots of those. We got so many smelly stories. So H &M and Elf partnered to launch a fragrance.

19:00So this is actually Elf Cosmetics' first fragrance line, and H &M's first, like, branded collaboration on a fragrance line that they're selling in store. I just think it's so interesting that Elf hasn't entered into the fragrance category yet. Being that it's one of the fastest growing categories within beauty is fragrance, where you're seeing everybody and their mother launch a fragrance line. Athena Club, which is a shave and body care company, they just launched a whole fragrance, what they're calling a wardrobe line of products, hair and body mist, but they're calling it a fragrance wardrobe and like and elf has touched every category of skincare and beauty they've duped a ton of different brands but i do think like with both of these brands mass market appeal h &m also seems to be trying to appeal to a more trendy audience based off some of their runs recently i mean both of these have very big mass market appeals so i do think h &m is an early partner for them is pretty smart and they look they look good like the the actual packaging is like glass they look nice i'm betting that this year we'll see elf come out with like their own line of a variety of fragrances i think they'll well they probably want to clones but they'll probably do a hair and body mist i could even see them doing like a room spray that would be a pivot for them i will say the thing that surprised me about the elf fragrance the most actually is that the packaging is really like luxe looking.

20:37I think my elf is typically known for having nice looking packaging. Like it's usually pretty, it almost looks like private label to me. Yeah. Not bad, but it's not like luxe. And this looks kind of luxe. I bet that's the H &M side. I think it is too. More than the elf side. Like an eau de perfume as opposed to just like a body mist, I think is also an interesting move for them because I do feel like they lean towards a younger audience and a body mist is targeting a younger audience this you're totally right this feels more like geared towards h &m than it does feel like an elf move and they're i don't know it's a collab so i mean and elf bought road and i wonder with this acquisition if they're curious about either more acquisitions or at least testing out higher and potentially even lower tiers of products because if they wanted to start quote-unquote duping higher-end fragrances or higher-end skincare and beauty which they kind of already have but like higher end than what they already have like they have super goop dupes and la roche posay and i could see them going higher and maybe creating another brand for that or acquiring another brand and expanding that i think that'd be very interesting for them and especially with fragrance just continuing to be on the rise and especially with men and skincare for men.

22:02I think Elf should start going into that category. I think the market headwinds are there. I think they also have just the tailwinds of them as a company. They have the money. They have the distribution. They have the retail relationships. They have the manufacturing relationships to start to play around with other categories within beauty and skincare that they haven't touched yet. I think you're right. And on the fragrance note, well, actually, technically a supplement company launched its fragrance into Ulta this week. And I'm mentioning this also because Ulta had larger news this week as well.

22:37So there is a company called The New Company, which is launching its mood boosting fragrances at Ulta because apparently the actual fragrances are also supplements that make you happier. Okay, I will say their fragrance Fragrances smell excellent. Yeah, I want to try them. I'll go to Ulta. Go to Ulta. They do smell really good. The mood-boosting side, sure, Jan. Well, I feel like things that smell good boost my mood. I don't know. Right. We don't need to, like, even make the functional claim, but it's smart of them to make the functional claim because this allows this product to sit both in the fragrance aisle and in Ulta's new wellness aisle as a functional fragrance or as almost like a supplement.

23:23So that really plays well this week because Ulta Beauty just piloted wellness shop and shops, so little sections of their stores that are just wellness stores. They're piloting them only in four stores right now, but I have a feeling this will be a concept that is tested, does really well. thousand percent and expands and these are just for ulta's quote-unquote wellness products which at this point i don't know if i can tell the difference between wellness and beauty products and i don't think anyone wants us to be able to tell the difference between wellness and beauty no no no no what's the difference between a silk pillowcase and a moisturizer nothing jenna Nothing.

24:06Yeah. It's fascinating. Beauty brands have been adopting this wellness language for a while, but to also see a beauty retailer lean in in this way, I mean, they want you to think that they're like, it's because inner beauty is just as important as outer beauty and blah, blah, blah. But no, it's about having to maximize and optimize virtually every part of your routine in every possible way and everything you do whether it's health or wellness or mental health actually has to do with how beautiful you are so if anything i actually think it has the opposite effect always right

24:50everything's always these days yeah seriously but yeah i think the shop and shops will will be in a lot more than four stores in the coming year two years what they have like 1500 stores maybe a little bit more maybe a little bit less but yeah we're gonna we're gonna see them a lot more especially as they expand their offerings and as more brands come out with more like wellness leaning products they need a place to put them the vitamin shop's probably not it you can do target you can do walmart you can do ulta the thing that's funny about this to me is that earlier last year 2025 ulta had shop and shops in target locations so they had like many ultras and targets that those shut down last year so there are no more shop and shops of ulta stores within targets and then ulta was like oh targets prioritizing wellness and we're no longer in target let's just like make our own shop and shop in our own stores that are also competing with target like really backstabbing their old partners here it's kind of wild i mean alta's grown enough they have enough cachet people trust them makes sense yeah makes sense to me and they have a really good return policy no i i i went there we were they're like oh if you want to try this you can open it you can use it you can return it where were you buying shampoo you got something good no i've been using california returned it i didn't buy anything there i've been using california naturals i also am using california naturals i really like their stuff me too it's really nice i feel like owen wilson i know that was such a good partnership because i'm like if i could have hair as luscious as owen really random but good partnership and great products i want to get their new lotion and their new body scrub bucket.

26:48Ooh, bucket of scrubby stuff. I think it's an excellent celeb brand, actually. That is not talked about enough. No, I agree. Well, we just did. So you're welcome, Owen. If you're listening. Well, the team's listening at least. So I'll take that. Let's talk about hand sanitizer. It's big business, you know? You know, it's shockingly big business. I feel like we shouldn't be that surprised after COVID, but. So to add context, Clorox, the company that owns Clorox and Burt's Bees and Hidden Valley Ranch, fun fact, and Pine Sol, they just acquired Gojo Industries, which is the 80 year family run business that owns and makes Purell.

27:38They acquired them for$2.25 billion in cash. So much money! Because it's a private family-run business, which is insane. So it ended the 80-year run. It was founded in 1946 in Ohio. And they're best known for Purell. Obviously, Purell is a consumer-facing business. Like, you and I can buy Purell and CVS and whatnot. But in reality, it's really a B2B distribution business. Yep. They have, according to the press release, 20 million installed dispensers for Pure Out. So hospitals, bathrooms, all that kind of stuff. Venues, just venues. Venues, yeah, oh my God. I feel like anywhere you go, especially post-pandemic, there's a hand sanitizer dispenser.

28:23And I didn't even think about this until I went to the bathroom today. Oh, good for you. Thank you. In a public restroom, how brave. and the soap dispenser was gojo it wasn't pure oh it was gojo it was gojo branding so they also own soap dispensers and yeah this was also out of business so like yeah you don't think about how big of a b2b business it would be whoa no that was too many b's you don't think of how big of a b2b business this could be i'm keeping this in this is amazing until you're like oh no every business needs soap and sanitizer what was really interesting about this is like yeah i'm sure having the purell name like for clorox to own the purell name first of all in my head i feel like that association was already made yeah like of course clorox owns pure out it's a very natural yeah acquisition but for them to have that name is really good because i think at this point purell is almost synonymous with hand sanitizer like we say do you have any purell when we just mean any hand sanitizer kind of like like kleenex i think you mentioned yep band-aid band-aid is a band-aid not a product totally band-aid bandages and they're They're all so close to becoming genericized, which basically just means that your brand name has become so ubiquitous and used to mean the product.

29:55I mean, it's a huge deal for them to own, again, a company that has so much name recognition in the cleaning space for Quarox. That's great. But also the fact that they can capitalize on this B2B network is huge. Oh, yeah. That is probably a lot of the reason that they spent$2.2 billion on it. I mean, I think they want to do Hidden Valley Ranch dispensers in all bathrooms. Nate, that was actually really funny. We're all trying to wash our hands with ranch. I love ranch. like look you really could have just been like hidden valley dispensers like next to the ketchup dispenser no in bathrooms where else would you put a dispenser come on would you be like a dispenser nah that's so funny but yeah they'll have access to this big b2b network yeah one of the things that we thought was interesting to contextualize because we always want to contextualize these numbers for an acquisition snaps for that contextualizing because we're like I don't know what 2.2 billion dollars mean fair something to compare it to is that also in 2025 church and dwight acquired the hand sanitizer brand touchland for 800 million dollars so less I mean yeah that's less than half of what Purell or Gojo was bought for but touchland is a way newer brand.

31:282018. Started in 2018, not 1946. A little different. But Purell is the number one player in hand sanitizer, and guess who's number two? Touchland. It's crazy. My biggest issue with Touchland is that you got this thick-ass plastic pump, and it's not refillable? You're charging me$14? Look, I've bought plenty. I've received plenty. I use it a lot. They're fun. I'm not going to lie. They're flat. It fits nice. I get it. But like, my God, have a refillable one. I know. It's so wasteful. But yeah, we talked a little bit in the newsletter about the difference between these. I mean, they're the exact same category, but they are such different players.

32:15The number one is so unsexy, B2B name recognition. Number two is fun, cool, hot kid on the block. like yeah i mean if you're describing touchland to someone you're basically would say it's like purell like exactly but it's fun to use smells good yeah all the gen z kids are using it like jenna i mean pop-up grocer has a collaborative drink with touchland it's a cake batter flavor mind you and they put an event with influencers and i was there like huh you're like for hand sanitizer with glitter in it it had glitter in it we lost the plot i mean i got back and i was like i just went to a fancy grocery store for an event with a bunch of influencers to promote a collaborative collaborative coffee drink with a hand sanitizer company that is cake and that's your utopian name what honestly it is touchland has been able to associate itself so much with its sense and its like cultural cachet that you're not like wait a hand sanitizer drink sounds like i'm drinking pure isopropyl alcohol granted erwan did do that vacation smoothie collab and it is supposed to taste like the vacationing sunscreen but the vacation is supposed to taste like confusing it's very confusing this world is crazy we're we're done for the end of times well it is but that's separately yeah so our next story and our last story is actually about my favorite topic ever which is antacids for those who don't know i was tums for halloween my boyfriend was pepto-bismol for Halloween the same Halloween this wasn't like I love antacids I'm an acid reflux girly and I am very familiar with the brand behind the news that we are sharing which is called Wonder Belly Wonder Belly is a quote-unquote modern digestive medicine brand in other words They make, quote unquote, clean versions of Tom's Gas X belly medicine, and they brand it cuter.

34:47It's the same active ingredients, but without artificial dyes, sweeteners, or some other added things. And Procter & Gamble, P &G, just acquired Wonder Belly, which is a really big deal. That's a huge company, obviously, and a huge pharma company that is buying into this new trend and new wave of clean medicine, over-the-counter medicine, not supplements, actual active ingredients of medicine. yeah and it's funny because like png has a deep loading brand and png has a lot of brands that aren't in this clean medicine world so this is an early foray into this space that more people are wanting i mean we're seeing it in food and bev and we're starting to see it more in obviously in the supplement space but now in the over-the-counter med space there's brands like genexa i think is how you pronounce it?

35:49Genexa. Genexa. They have acetaminophen and those kind of meds, but quote unquote cleaner. But again, they are the same active ingredients. It's just sans, maybe a sugar, maybe a preservative, maybe a dyes. Dyes, I think, is a big one that really like Wonderbelly and Genexa lean on. Yeah, lean on. The Wonderbelly deep bloating and gas has simethicone in it. simethicone is the main ingredient in gas x or the over-the-counter gas x that you buy a target that i have pills of in all of my bags because i try everything and my tum tum hurts all the time so relatable but i will say the wonder belly flavors they're pretty good i like them better than tums except the candy coated tums i love those wait i love tums smoothies i love the smoothie flavor of Tums.

36:43I love Tums. I am a Tums purchaser. I will continue to purchase Tums also because they are much cheaper than Wonder Belly. But Wonder Belly is a very cute alternative for people who care about dyes and some of these other synthetic ingredients. I think something to note here is that this is going to be a burgeoning category, as we said, of these clean over-the-counter medication dupes a thing to watch out for is that the term clean is not FDA regulated so brands can just use that if they want and maybe not really change the product that much you're kind of just buying into like the lifestyle it's marketing same active ingredients just exactly but it'll I mean it'll be similar this is a very similar play to how big food is now acquiring better for you brands.

37:29So like Pepsi buying Siete, like it's, it's the same thing just in the pharma aisle. And for PNG, it's going to give them a lot of credibility with younger health conscious consumers and they won't have to reformulate any of their existing legacy brands that are like, they have a, yeah, that will, that I am for Halloween. And for Wonder belly it means massive distribution muscle and so many resources to scale so i have a feeling we're going to be seeing wonder belly everywhere oh and they're probably going to expand into a lot of different more products hopefully it'll get cheaper though png probably will be able to get the ingredients for a lot less and then still charge 14 for a couple pills and have a great spread right there good i'm sure power branding oh yeah power branding but yeah i think we'll see a lot more of this either through acquisitions and new brands launching but i'm sure that to produce and get these active ingredients is a challenge in in in it of itself so i could see like a png or another competitor even like incubating this stuff in house in some capacity i used to work at a branding agency that worked with record ben keizer we were doing work for for them incubating their own like i'm gonna say quote unquote better for you cleaner whatever gummy use pills yada yada so i i think we'll see a mixture of both especially because probably producing these products could be difficult more difficult than like a supplement which there's a ton of manufacturers and food there's a ton of manufacturers and and suppliers and no regulation yeah the most important part about this is the regulation piece which is so concerning but it's all fun we love a yassified product oh yeah holding one of those okay i do feel very fancy pins is really nice it's a lovely experience lovely experience it feels a lot sexier than holding tums but tums is an identity piece for me and for that reason i will not be investing in wonder belly exactly shark tank you should you should hire us next we'd be great guest judges we've got lots of opinions at the very least yes we're not too sharky but we can be for you well jenna it's another great week another great episode if you haven't yet please go read Building the Perfect Celebrity Brand.

39:52We got some great quotes from these brand founders who work with very fun celebrities. So please go read that. We'll link it in the description. Like and subscribe. Review this podcast, which would be really helpful. Share it. Share it with your colleagues. Share it with your parents, your significant other. Your Tums loving grandma. Your hinge date. If you're listening to this on your hinge date, go give this to your hinge or bumble date. Why would you be listening to it on your hinge date? People are busy. They're entrepreneurs. I don't know. Go tell a random person about us. Listen to it with your hinge date.

40:29Yes, absolutely. Oh my God, listen to it. Modern romance. Please. I literally can't imagine. Listen to our soothing voices. Let's go. And thank you. We'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Bye.