Real sugar is unapologetically back

0:00Welcome back to another episode of The Curious Consumer. Today we have a very special guest, Tara Bosch. She's the founder of Snackish, a new Better For You potato chip brand that's got protein in it, it's got fiber in it, it's got avocado oil, and it just launched nationwide in Target. But you might best know her as the founder of SmartSweets, a brand I would say was very ahead of its time in the Better For You curve that we're seeing now in CPG. Tara, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here with you both. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, we're excited to chat. And congrats on the launch.

0:36It just happened. It just happened. Nationwide at Target. How are you feeling? How's it been? Yes, it literally just happened. The chips are on the shelf. It's been really magical. I feel like the vision lives in your head for so long. To see it actualized in the real world is a really special moment. Can you actually tell us a little bit about Snackish? What is it? I think potato chips is the simple of a way to explain it. So Snackish, the vision started about a year ago. My daughter Willa became obsessed with the yellow chip bag and carrying it around with her everywhere. And I also love potato chips, but had stopped eating them over the years because they either don't taste great or they don't make you feel great.

1:20And so that really was what sparked the vision to change what a chip could be and Snackish was born. Really the vision that we're setting out on is innovating the everyday snack for a new generation. So when you think of any of your favorite salty snacks, Snackish is the brand delivering on you being able to feel good about enjoying it every single day. And we started with potato chips. Okay. So we're, we're building out a platform brand here. It sounds like, and that's a big deal for someone coming off of being a founder once before and an incredibly successful founder in CPG once before. You had a$360 million exit of Smart Suites in 2020.

1:59There were five years in between. Can you tell us a little bit about what went on from that exit to deciding to return to this world and build out this platform brand? Yeah, when I was building Smart Suites, I was so grateful to have the opportunity to somehow have brought that mission to kick sugar to life. And the whole time I was also hanging on for dear life when everyone tells you to enjoy this moment like this but when you're in it it's so hard that sometimes you're like it it just also will be so nice to be able to not be up at 4 a.m staring at the roof thinking about what is around the bend and how you're possibly going to solve the mountain that lies ahead so as smart suites I always knew at some point it would make sense to find a partner and at kind of the timing we're in our fourth year we're crossing the threshold of a hundred million and I kind of didn't have the same gut instinct I had had up until that point about what's the path now to get to that next level of growth and my grandmother who inspired the vision was also entering her last years of life and I really wanted to be present for her in those years like she was for me my whole life.

3:06When I signed the papers and we found a partner that really felt like the most authentic fit to actualize the vision in the next stage, two weeks after I started to get really sick. I thought I was slowly dying, like adrenal fatigue, burnout, like you hear about all these things. I definitely pushed myself to the limits every single day. I remember by like the end of Smart Sweets, I, not on brand, but I was having like six zero sugar monster energy drinks a day and not feeling anything from it. And, and, and so my nervous system certainly needed a minute but I thankfully wasn't slowly dying I found out six months later I was actually gonna have a baby in two and a half months at the most and so I dove from the intensity of company building into the intensity of becoming a mom I had the day before I found out I was pregnant my flippers packed and a one-way ticket booked to the Maldives because I'd never gone on a vacation in my life and it was like my kind of bucket list thing to just go and exist in the world as a human for a minute and then 24 hours later found out I was actually gonna have a baby very very soon and so dove into the intensity of that and postpartum and becoming a single mama and all of it a year after Willa entered the world and kind of a divine way my grandmother passed and Willa had become the center of her orbit in her last year.

4:34So they sent each other off and into the world and it felt just really special. I then became really passionate about through my SmartSweets journey as well of empowering other women in their journeys and being part of normalizing conversations around imposter syndrome and self-doubt because those feelings, whether I was respiratory testing in my kitchen or signing the papers to sell never went away for me. They were always there. So created a few impact initiatives to empower women to know they're infinitely capable of bringing their grandest visions to life. And just spent a few years doing that and just existing in the world with my little human.

5:13Love that story. That's very impactful too. And I'm curious, as you've started to build this brand, how did that experience impact what you decided to do with Snackish? I think that you guys are such Einsteins that you have such an incredible POV on it. as grateful as I've been and continue to be to be able to show up and be like in support of other women on their journeys I also realized how magical that feeling is to have something where it's the timing aligns the right team the right product all of those variables align is so rare and magical and so I really realized just how lucky it is to have that happen even once in your life.

5:56And so I set an intention about six months before the Snackish vision came that if there was ever an authentic why, an incredible group of women to build with, like how lucky would that be? And then six months later is when Willa became obsessed with potato chips and also in looking and somehow Snackish was available as a brand platform, which was shocking to me because smart suites it's such an emotionally connected word and sentiment and it lights up a feeling in everyone that was also incredibly divine in its own timing too i love that it is crazy snackish was available i was thinking that when i heard that snackish was launching i was like how did that not exist as a brand before i'm interested similarly there's so much pressure these days in cpg to be building towards something and smart suites ended up building toward this incredible exit.

6:48I imagine there's probably a lot of external pressure to build this brand that you are. It sounds like you're building this so meaningfully and thoughtfully. And yet I'm sure there's a lot of external forces that are saying you've exited for millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars before. Do it again. Are you listening to that noise? How are you factoring that into building a brand? I imagine there's just extra pressure and I'm curious how that looks for you. That's a great question. I think when I had the vision for Snackish, like the very first thing that came into my mind was like, if I'm going to do this again, it has to be fun because life is so short and no days are guaranteed.

7:25I know now this time the hardness that I was choosing to walk into from starting from ground zero. Amidst that hardness, it has to still have a light energy about it and just be fun. And just as much as the what was snackish that we're building in the world, the how, is something that I also felt really viscerally called towards. Be kind, heart-centered humans that don't take yourself too seriously and build something really incredible and impactful in the world. So from a shared standpoint, I haven't really felt that. I think what I feel most attached to is everyone that's come on this journey, they've said yes and invested in the vision emotionally and being part of it.

8:10And I want to do right by them. And so everyone has equity. The cap table is one class of shares. Also being intentional about funding the company myself. that also removes those external pressures. We don't have to be focused on anything literally other than actualizing the vision in the world and having fun. I want to hear more about the product. So you knew you wanted to do chips because Willa's carrying around the unnamed yellow bag everywhere and you knew you wanted to do it better. How did you, like, what did the actual formulating process look like and how did you land where you landed, which is this, like, using the whole potato thesis?

8:49The brand promise with Snackish is to really feel good about eating chips every day and then broader than that, feel good about eating your favorite snacks every day. And so that was really the top of where we layered it down from. And what's really interesting about chips was that in the category there were your potato chips and natural versions of that are sliced potatoes. And then there are tortilla chips that have functional ingredients in them. but no one had actually innovated on the potato chip itself. I very quickly learned why there was no manufacturing capabilities across North America or really in the world to do it.

9:27We really wanted to bring chips back to the potato and the authenticity around that as well as to have all the ingredients in our chips, things that you could find in your kitchen pantry and so everything from the seasonings where we haven't used any natural flavors or preservatives to actually using the whole potato where we have the potato itself, but then we have potato protein, which is derived from the skin of the potato and is a complete source of protein, which is really cool. Did you, did you about that on your own? Did you, how did you, I'm always so curious when there's such a unique formulation, like how a founder comes to it.

10:07Were you aware that there was more protein and nutrients in the skin and knew you just needed to find a way to make it work? Oh, I had no idea. I mean, I had no idea. No idea. I think that the really cool thing I think that I've learned is keeping fun at the forefront, but choosing what you want to obsess over and being like absolutely relentless and very anal about what you're choosing to obsess over. And for us, of course, one of those things was the product and wanting to bring it back to the potato. So in just through the path of the obsession, I think through that rabbit hole, you just learn so much.

10:42And somehow we were able also serendipitously to align that to owning exclusive rights in North America to potato protein. So that was helpful from a moat building perspective. But I'm a big believer in serendipity as well. And I think when you're working to make a positive impact in the world, that's working towards something much larger than yourself. There's all those intangible things you can't necessarily place logic on, but that also begin to happen. I love that. And I love that line of thinking for Food and Bev too. I feel like you don't hear those kinds of insights and intuitions around just making a physical product.

11:24I'm curious a little bit about the Target launch. Target's become this destination for buzzy emerging brands more so than it ever has in the past. I've seen a lot of creators calling it the next Whole Foods, which is kind of crazy. It's becoming a very big destination. That relationship, did you go to them first? Did they come to you? And also curious, why national launch with one of these retailers rather than a slower launch with a bunch of regional players the launch strategy came really from my experience with smart suites where even at that time when when we were pretty early on and really no one knew who we were in the world i saw the power that lies in today's like social forward world where it actually is more frustrating to our consumer to see us on social and not be able to drive to her local store and find us than it was to do a regional build and that really paid its way in spades in terms of allowing us to unlock growth and becoming the category leader very quickly and so with Snackish I knew that was the way that we had to come out of the gates both in Canada and the U.S.

12:36simultaneously of course the kind of piece or unlock there was okay who finding the right partner that's not just going to put us on shelf or one or two SKUs on shelf but really lean in and see the vision for what they're building in their category and the synergies we have and that was target they leaned in and put us on in line double facings end cap check lane all from day one and steven and the team there in the leadership team i'm like infinitely grateful for them for believing in the vision they really didn't even try the chips themselves until we launched because we had benchtop product.

13:15There was a lot of faith and belief and I don't take that lightly. I knew that we had to do right by them. It sounds like you're building a house of brands. I'm very excited to see also what other products you come out with in the future around these nostalgic upgraded versions of these treats. Is there a timeline for what that's going to look like? I mean, one of the blessings of building the Snacktery from day one was that it really allowed us and forced us to look around the bend and be like, what do we have to build right now to unlock what we're launching tomorrow? One of our next innovations that launches next year, I'm really, really excited about.

13:56It's the first in the world. It's never been done and we're the only manufacturing capabilities for it in North America, I believe actually worldwide. Really excited about that innovation and the pipeline that we're building beyond that is really informed by our consumer. She's our North Star, and so understanding what's missing in her pantry that she craves every day, and then matching that with the white space in the category, and how we can create value for our retail partners and build together. How far in advance are you thinking right now in terms of innovation pipeline? We're thinking kind of like a three years out working backwards, especially because of the nature of what we're doing with our potato chips.

14:37we built the Snacktery in a wild and insane way, but we wanted to make sure that we were building out our innovation pipeline and our capabilities and like redundancies in a really disciplined way. I know one of the other things that we obsess over is like operational excellence and that has to be the backbone of Snackish. Otherwise, all the fun and brand awareness and all those bits really don't matter at all. You don't hear that that often. You hear a lot more people focusing more on the marketing side, but having that operational base that you can build everything off of is just so vital to making all of this work, to making the marketing work.

15:16I mean, to what you were saying before, it's like, you want to be in all the targets if you're doing all this marketing work, but then you also need to have the good operations to make everything else work. It's great. I have, I have one last question, not a serious question or not that serious of a question. There is a famous Airbnb and it's a giant potato. Oh, the team just sent this. When are you going to do a brand trip to the giant potato Airbnb? I literally think serendipity is like doing its thing. Cause I kid you not, like not even a day ago, this was put in the group chat of like, obviously that's epic.

15:53You got to go to the potato. Yeah, no, that's epic. Like I need to also somehow hunt down the contact for whoever made his giant potato because we're making a giant potato for the snack tree entrance. Amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This is such a fun interview. And we love Snackish and we're so excited about what you're building. Well, that was a wonderful conversation with Tara Bosch from, not SmartSweets, Snackish. Both. Both. From both. I still haven't tried the product and I really need to. I will run to Target today to pick it up. You must. You said you would before. We've been busy, Jenna.

16:32We've been busy. Yes, we have been busy because last week was Fancy Food Show. I love the Summer Fancy Food Show at the Javits Center here in New York City. Yes. So for those who don't know, there are a bunch of trade shows that happen throughout the year in the food and beverage and CPG world. And this one is put on by the Specialty Food Association, and it's called the Fancy Food Show, which incredible name, by the way. We love going to this trade show. We sample lots of stuff. It's a joy. And every time we come back from a trade show, we get asked, what did you notice? What were the trends?

17:10What were the themes that you saw there? So we'll share a few. Yeah. I wish people actually asked us, what did you notice? It's always, what are the trends? What are the trends? And I, we always say this, that we don't like to say trends. We like to say the themes because trend implies that the average consumer is aware of this new thing rising in popularity or is interested in this new thing. And that's not always the case. A lot of the time it's just the industry hypothesizing that something will be cool at some point. So we can't speak to what will be trendy right now in food and beverage from just this trade show alone.

17:48But we can tell you some of the themes that we noticed. The first theme that we noticed is real sugar is back. Real sugar is back and loud and proud and real indulgence is also back. So what we saw is that there are so many brands right now that are really leaning into unapologetic indulgence. And I think what's happening here is that there is this health halo around, quote unquote, real ingredients or just non-artificial ingredients. And it doesn't really matter if those ingredients are calorie dense, if they're high sugar, it doesn't really matter. The fact is that better for you, and this is an ingredient that I understand, which could be sugar, which could be butter, they've been conflated.

18:36And now we've basically gotten to this point where we've gone so far down this diet culture hole that we've swung back and decided that cookies made with butter and sugar and ice cream made with real cream and sugar is actually healthier than the low calorie artificial ingredient alternatives. And I will leave this up to individuals to decide which is actually healthier for them. But we saw this really prominently in protein ice cream. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The one brand, two brands, really, Just Six and Nimble were ones that sort of were focused on this. Just Six is an interesting one because it's literally just six ingredients.

19:17in that ice cream. But those ingredients include real cream and real sugar also. And that's why it's delicious. And that's why it's delicious. And they say we're as rich as a Haagen-Dazs ice cream. Even Nimble on their site, their tagline is getting your protein should feel like a treat. They're like, this should taste so good. And it just happens to also have protein, which I do think is interesting because yeah, we're leaning all the way into indulgence, but we're still adding protein. So they're hedging their bets a little bit of sure you think this is healthy because it's made out of real ingredients but even if you don't think that we also still have the backup plan of you're going to pick this up because you want to get added protein in yeah and it's very much some people might be like oh it's competing with the davids of the world and the halo tops no it's actually competing for a mass market consumer who really just wants a treat which most people just want to treat and then the protein piece is just yeah i'm seeking protein this is great whatever it's great it's awesome it'll make me feel healthier too while having this indulgent treat.

20:16Exactly. It's like, I want to have my normal treat, but also feel a little bit better, which I do think is interesting because I still think those things should be separate. I still think that ice cream should just be ice cream and not have added protein because even these ice creams that are just ice cream with added protein, again, are borrowing that health halo where a consumer might see on pack that it's high protein and be high protein equals healthy and have it as a, this is a better for me treat and feel better about it. When in reality, they just had ice cream that happens to have protein in it.

20:50So I still have a bit of an issue with this personally, because I think that consumers are like, oh, this must be healthy, but it's not. It's still, it's really high in sugar. So either I think go all the way of like, we are purely indulgent and don't have added protein or be on the more diet culture side of things because I think when it's somewhere in the middle, it can really confuse consumers on like how often they should be consuming it, what the portion size should look like. It can get a little murky. And I think with ice cream in particular, a lot of the protein ice creams, it's in the pint.

21:26It's not in a serving, it's in the pint. I think one of the ice creams, it might've been just six where the protein for the serving size was bigger than I've seen for other ice creams. However, I don't think people really know what a nutrition label, how that works. People look at nutrition labels that closely, at least from the serving size. They look at the numbers, they're like, great. And then they eat the entire thing. You're like, that's a lot of sugar. That's a lot of fat, salt, whatever. It can be a dangerous thing. Because we have these learned behaviors from companies like Halo Top, which taught us to eat the whole pint.

22:02which taught us when something says, this is a better for you ice cream, you can have the whole thing. But now when these more indulgent ones are like, I don't think there was ever a confusion between I should eat a whole pint of Ben and Jerry's and I should eat a whole pint of Halo Top. I think consumers understand the difference between those two things. But when you're somewhere in the middle of we taste like a Ben and Jerry's, we are made with real sugar, but also we have protein in it. People are like, so can I eat the whole pint? That learned behavior can still come across and that's where I am.

22:30I worry that it gets a little misleading. We saw this definitely in the ice cream set and I think we'll continue to see it in the ice cream set as more protein ice creams come to market. We also, I thought this was really interesting. We walked with a Whole Foods category manager who is a beverage buyer. Yes. Charlie knew he was incredible. So So Charlie's job is finding the coolest new beverages on the market at one of these trade shows that he can then bring onto Whole Foods shelves. And he showed us, this is not to say that this product will land on Whole Foods shelves by any means, but Charlie showed us one of his favorite sips from the show, which was a product called Muzi, a canned A2 flavored milk.

23:16It was like a very premium tasting flavored milk product almost could be like used as a milkshake, I would say. Yeah. And he was excited about it. And I turned it over and I saw that it had 37 grams of sugar in it. And I actually was confused because I'm like, Whole Foods, you wouldn't accept that. And Charlie was really passionate about sharing something that did give me a new perspective. It's not his job to pick the healthiest possible option to fill the shelves with. It's his job to have a diverse set of products on his shelf for any kind of consumer. And this product, because it doesn't have any artificial sweetener, it's just sugar, does meet the whole food standards.

24:01And it could be served as this occasional indulgence. And his logic was if they didn't have any sugary products in Whole Foods, they wouldn't have an ice cream aisle. They wouldn't have a cookie aisle. and so he needs to make sure that there's representation basically across the set i just thought that was really fascinating i was no it was surprising because whole foods has always had this as we we love we love this race health halo around it but it's also a natural grocery store and there's plenty of consumers and there is a whole ice cream set and they also have a whole candy section too but it is a very interesting perspective especially with what you and I, Jenna, are surrounded by all the time.

24:43It's all these better for you brands. It's all this removing this, not adding that. And then sometimes we just forget that indulgence is still a thing, even in the health world. And this is a good example of it. I will say 40 grams of sugar is a lot. The point, like his point was though, it wasn't all added. I think 19 grams were in the milk or something. It was not all added. But it's a – still. Still. That's really – It did taste delicious. I know why. Of course. But it was very good. The horchata one was excellent. It was so good. Yeah. And the justification again was like this would be like an indulgence instead of having – going out for a milkshake.

25:30And I can just have it at home and a milkshake probably also has 40 grams of sugar in it, but it doesn't have to, like when you go out for a milkshake, there's no nutrition label on it. And so the difference being we are confronted with the amount of sugar on a packaged good in a way that we are not in a typical indulgence. But my argument to that is still, at least if you're going out for a milkshake, it's an experience. It's getting you out of your home. It's probably social as opposed to sitting on your couch, drinking something with 40 grams of sugar. I have my own things with this, but I just, I really thought that his perspective was interesting.

26:06And I was grateful to walk the show with someone who gave us that alternative perspective. Yeah. The buyer's POV is endlessly fascinating because it's, yeah, there's like a marketing and perception angle to it. Of course, like that's in the back of their head, but it's also just like, what are people going to buy and what do people want? And how do we meet those needs and build a set around that. It's about building a set. It's not just about health call-outs and all that stuff. It's like you need a full selection. It's fascinating. Another thing we saw, and we've been seeing this for years, and I've been talking about this a lot, but the continued boom of high-quality frozen products and meals.

26:49We did a whole deep dive about the Frozen Isles glow up era where this category was filled with very lackluster products and very much value options. And now they're being premiumized. It's a hard word to say. What's happened in a lot of the other categories has started to really happen in the frozen area. And we're starting to see a lot more innovations in taste, but also formats and global flavors. And one of the big things at the show that we saw was a continuation of this restaurant quality. Brands have often said restaurant quality as an attribute, but now there's literal restaurant quality, restaurant made products in the Frozen set.

27:33Benny Hanna, Steve Aoki's dad's restaurant, launched Frozen dumplings at this show, which was very good. Mimi Chang's, which has been around for a while, they rebranded and they were also at the show Nadas, which is a frozen empanada company. They had, they've had a restaurant and stand here in New York. We tried their guava and cheese flavor. I could eat a thousand of those. Those are so good. And their other flavors are also excellent. Beef and spinach and cheese and yada, yada, but guava and cheese. Oh, amazing. So it's a really common South American flavor combination. I've had it before from my boyfriend's Brazilian, and mom, but I haven't seen it reflected in American grocery sets at all, actually.

28:19So it was really cool to see him enter the market with something that is familiar to American consumers, being empanadas in relatively familiar flavors, and then start to branch out into some of these more authentic flavors and hope that a consumer will learn to appreciate them as well. Yeah. Speaking of interesting flavors, there was a frozen pizza that was Indian dish. inspired frozen pizza. There's a butter chicken one. And this is also like, they have a few restaurants around Illinois and I think like more of the Chicago area. And then one in, they just opened up one in LA somewhere. It's called Mazzala.