Skincare for three-year-olds

0:00Welcome back to another episode of The Curious Consumer. I'm Nate. I'm Jenna. And we are going to introduce ourselves because we have not been doing that on these podcast episodes. So Jenna, tell the audience who we are. Who the heck are we? I don't know. So we write a newsletter called Express Checkout, send it out twice a week, and Express Checkout covers all things consumer packaged goods and retail. So whenever there's news about your grocery store, whenever there's news about a new snack brand or supplement or beverage coming out with a cool product, we're covering that. Skincare. We're covering that.

0:43We're in your inboxes. Yeah. I've been talking to people recently a lot about what CPG even means, and it's such a confusing thing to summarize, but technically it's any, we'll cover any packaged good that this is my favorite definition. As you use it, it runs out. So not tech because tech doesn't run out, not furniture, not fashion, but we do cover skincare. Yes. Beauty, skincare, all CPG goods. I always say anything you can find in a grocery store, we are most likely covering it. But it's fun and we love it and we're passionate about it. And we've been doing it for a hot minute. And now this is the audio version, something for everyone.

1:20So we've been recording episodes weekly but last week was the first week that we didn't in a little bit because sorry a very well-deserved out of office had a lovely trip upstate with your wife who deserved it even more than you because she's a resident i agree i agree but i did go to some shoppy shops up in hudson and some other areas in the catskills um i saw sam smith at the maker hotel that is such a great celeb sighting it really is they're so tall we should start with our first story today which jenna i know you have opinions i have opinions the internet has opinions tell us about reene oh boy are the opinions rampant um so this is something that we covered last week and i was so like oh my god nate we need to have a podcast this week despite you being out of office because there was so much to say about it.

2:16But basically, Rini is a new brand that launched last week by Shea Mitchell, who you might know as an actress. She was in Pretty Little Liars. She also is now a multi-time founder because she has a luggage brand called Base Luggage, which is really beloved, I would say. Yeah, they have good stuff, honestly. Yeah. So she launched a new quote unquote, skincare and play product brand for quote, growing faces aged three and up. The first product that they came out with is a mask, like a face, a sheet mask. It's a Korean skincare sheet mask for kids aged three and up. As you can imagine, this got the people going because three-year-olds shouldn't need to be worrying about skincare.

3:10So I stalked their website, all of the posts about it. The thesis of it was we should create products for kids who are already looking at what their mom is doing and they're like, I want to do that too. So if their mom is someone who uses sheet masks, a mom might not want their three-year-old to use the same sheet masks that they're using because maybe it has a retinol or something in it that's not safe for kids. So this is a safe for kids play product for skin. The problem with that though, is that it commoditizes something that just didn't need to be commoditized. There's already a solution to this.

3:47You don't have to hand your kid the sheet mask that you're using. You could, you know, your kid has an amazing imagination. They can like smear some avocado on their doll and they're like, oh my God, my doll is wearing a face mask. Or they like, you hand them a cotton pad with some water on it and they pretend to use it as a fake. Like, play is so important. And when we start commoditizing play and making kids consumers at younger and younger ages, like, that is what the internet was really upset about and what I also am upset about. Yeah. I mean, like, we don't have an issue with products designed and formulated for sort of a young and growing face and skincare and whatever it is.

4:32Like that's not the issue that we have here. Like that's kind of inherently a good thing that like everybody is just sort of different skin. So it's good there's something, but there's also some like premiumization level to this that I also like don't think needs to exist. I think to your point of play, it's like, why doesn't this look that fun? It just looks high end for a kid. A hundred percent. You can't say that it's play and also call it the first ever hydrogel mask. That's not, a kid can't even pronounce that. I can barely pronounce that. I, yeah, I completely agree. There's a difference between creating products for kids.

5:12There's nothing wrong with that. Like baby lotion needs to exist for a reason. Kids have more sensitive skin. That is a separate issue from creating something that feels a little too adult for a kid. And again, creates a problem that wasn't there. Yeah. And the other thing too is like, look, sheet masks are not the most environmentally friendly product either. And like, there are also, there are reusable sheet masks out there. Experiment makes a silicone based one. If you're really, if you really need to get your kid a sheet mask, maybe get that one. That's like also just not wasting product that goes into the trash anyways.

5:48So fair. Yeah. So it's definitely blew up the internet. It'll be interesting to see, first of all, if people do end up buying this brand. I almost feel bad in a way. I don't know why I feel bad for a brand, but I do that. They didn't launch with some of their other products. Cause it looks like there's some stuff in the works that might have been more well-received. They have these for lack of a better term, like makeup sticks. They look like, like giant crayons that are safe for kids to use as play makeup. I actually think that's not a terrible idea. They look, they look more playful. They don't look like they're trying to pretend to be a more adult, like a She Mouse looks like a very adult product that it's like trying to be whereas like these like makeup sticks don't look like actual makeup they look kind of like giant crayons that are safe for kids to use on their face i think if they had launched with that again it like might have been more well received because it is playful but launching with the mask just really like set the wrong tone for the brand generally i think people have calmed down a bit and and i think people will forget about this until they sort of launch again or the product starts shipping or it starts hitting stores.

6:54I'm just like, one of my biggest issues with kids these days, not issues with kids in general. No, it's like, I feel like kids are not allowed to be young and imaginative and have a world filled with color and fun things like the adult stuff is starting to shift younger and younger and I it's really weird to me the the kids not just having like fun colorful products anymore and it's all this like muted beige coloring that like adults have that skims has like we don't kids should have fun products it doesn't need to all look so nice it's like fitting an aesthetic of the adult as opposed yeah yeah and like kids shouldn't need to fit any aesthetic they should just like be messing around my first thought actually when i saw this was like i was like when and i i can't recommend this to parents or their kids but i feel like the closest thing i can think of having done as a kid to a sheet mask was like literally going in my backyard and smearing mud on my face like it's great for your by your gut biome and whatever that's good but my immune system is better because of it.

8:16And it's just fun and silly. And you like, that's how you learn. You don't learn by being a perfect child. Anyway, we don't, we can't really, neither of us are parents. So like, there's a two year old dog, not a child. Um, doesn't count. Unfortunately. Yeah. There's only so much we can say on it, but I would love to hear like some of the parents in our audience, what, what their thoughts on this are and what their thoughts in general are. and like raising a kid in 2025 is because it just there's so many more factors at play that shift how kids are being perceived and how kids perceive themselves like I want to know what people with kids think about this product and about just kids products in general um and how a lot of more like a mature look is sort of skewing younger and younger.

9:11Yeah. When I, I don't think it should, but I'm very curious to see, to hear what some parents think about all this. Yeah. I totally agree. I would love to hear from that. Yeah. So we, we have a right to be upset, but maybe not as much as, as a parent would, but one thing I have a full right to be upset about is the other thing I went on a rant about in last week's newsletter. No, it's, I can't believe this is like a real thing. Nate leaves me to do the newsletter by myself and I just go on like rants. It just happened to be that like there were like multiple stories that deserved a rant. Yeah, no, that's true.

9:48So the story that deserved a rant this time was that Monster debuted a new energy drink for women and it's called flirt immediately now the taglines are kind of infuriating love at first sip meet your new crush in a can and there's some other like copy on this site that i'm i'm like my least favorite was the call to action at the bottom which was let us slide into your inbox with details on our hard launch did a 50 year old man write this like it's concerning i'll just actually read what i said which was i am so offended by this branding which at best is wildly cringe and at worst reduces female consumers to mere objects of romantic interest what the way that we attract women is by calling something flirt are you serious like that's all yeah no it's crushing a can crushing a can there's also some other language on here that i'm like wow they're just trying to do all the the the um trendy like women leaning things they're like supports collagen boost collagen, supports skin and hair health.

11:20Energy drinks should be vibrant, fearless, and fun as the woman who drink it. What also got me about this is that if Monster was really gunning for the female consumer and a woman who drinks an energy drink that feels like it's for them, there are brands on the market that exist that they could have tapped into, that they could have done what Nutribolt did. Nutribolt who owns C4, which I'm drinking right here. They put a lot of money into Bloom Nutrition, which is most likely a very big female audience. Like they could have done something like that and supported an upstart brand or a female started brand like Orgy.

12:01I'm like, what does it actually mean to be a female energy drink brand? Because again, And in theory, any energy drink could be a female energy drink brand. Yeah. I think the one argument for something that is more feminine leaning might be a female-founded brand, sure. And if they want to support a female-founded brand, like what you said, that's fair. Otherwise, and we talked about this on our energy drink episode, the ingredients are probably exactly the same. Whatever is supporting collagen, whatever is supporting hair, skin, and nails, I am almost positive it's in whatever is already in Monster.

12:36They just are changing the messaging. So if you want your product to speak to women more, don't, don't like reduce it to like, oh, here's something women can understand. The word flirt with no vowels in it. Like, come on. No, it like comes, I think it comes off as. Yeah. And that like a female consumer is, is dumb, which is like, that's. first of all, most, again, most consumers statistically happen to be women. So it's like, where is this logic coming from? What is happening? The other thing that's condescending about it is the actual aesthetic of it is like quite juvenile. And it feels like it's juvenile on purpose.

13:24Like it looks like a kid drew the packaging. And I think that is as a concept, not a bad design concept. But again, when you're like, Like, oh, we're trying to speak women. So we're going to make this a little flower with kids handwriting. Like, what? What's that? That feels so condescending. Also, the flavors. Strawberry fling. Because it's romantic. It's a fling. Berry tempting. Are you kidding? That one. I couldn't. No, it's like, also, you have vibrant energy as opposed to what? Like, oh, it makes me so mad. I'm going to stop there. But the point being, and I like what, like, besides me just being angry about it, your more like logical take on it is so accurate too that just like monster could have just bought a brand that already exists that's already doing a better more authentic job of reaching female consumers or taking a minority stake whatever there's like an there's also like it's just alongside just being belittling to women there's just an easier way to do this yes yeah why are you making it hard on yourself it's so funny it's so funny but this is not the last thing we have to say on energy drinks because there is a lot going on with energy drinks right now and luckily you'll see why pun intended

14:40there are some other brands doing interesting things like lucky energy which was called lucky fuck energy and they you didn't know this no it was called lucky fuck i think they like it was a it was a star instead of the you but it was called lucky fuck for a while and then they rebranded after they launched to lucky energy wow same branding actually they just taped over where it used to say fuck on the cam oh i thought the tape was just like the aesthetic i like it it's cool no this tape that's really funny to cover up a naughty word the story is that the founder survived a plane crash. I mean, don't we all?

15:23One of the only survivors of a plane crash. That's insane. And so he was like, I have to do something with my life. And I think he, I can't remember all the details, but launched an energy drink brand called Lucky Fuck, apparently. Well, he is one Lucky Fuck. They just raised$25 million. which is crazy that's a big number and we've just been seeing a lot of money going into energy yeah and the energy drink market is really interesting because like there's clearly very there's clear category leaders red bull monster uh and celsius celsius who also owns alani new as of recently but there's a lot of other brands who are starting to in no way get close to the numbers that Red Bull and Celsius and Monster are doing, but are starting to make some waves here, which there's Dr.

16:22Huberman's new brand, Matena. It's a new clean energy Yerba Mate-based brand. They just launched at Whole Foods. Gorgi has been growing really fast. They also raised a$25 million round this year. Obviously, Alani Nu, which is now owned by Celsius, they surpassed a billion dollars in retail sales a year. So they're going crazy. Monster obviously is releasing flirt. Monster. Whatever. And we asked our friend Mark Gallo, who I have always described as the beverage guy. If you need a guy to tell you about how the beverage industry works, you talk to Mark Gallo. this man is a beverage magician he's a guru he's a guru um he he told us to he's his title which he gave us is the orchestrator of beverages which i also very much love but we asked mark about this this sort of new wave of energy and why there's even still room for new energy drinks in this world and still a growing category and he was basically saying the energy drink category is having their craft beer moment, which I thought was a really interesting way to describe it.

17:36So I'm just going to read his quote. So Mark said that new energy drink brands like Lucky are quietly filling structural gaps in distributor portfolios. So apparently for years, energy drinks have had high velocity, but it's a very narrow category. So dominated by a very select few legacy brands like Red Bull and Monster, but very little flexibility on pricing, placement, and innovation. So distributors carried a lot of volume, but not always a lot of variety. So now these emerging brands are stepping in to fill that gap. And I think that is such an interesting insight and take because oftentimes when we get these takes and when people talk about the space, why something is growing and why something is sustaining, it is always from the marketing lens, strictly the marketing lens.

18:31And we always kind of ignore like, okay, but the people who are like deciding what goes into stores and are moving the products around, how is that working? How are they playing into this? So the distributors basically needing other options on shelf besides the staple energy drinks is a really interesting insight that I haven't seen anybody really talk about. And it makes a lot of sense too. Like there are very few brands that control a lot of the market. If you look at 52 week sale data, it's Red Bull, it's Celsius, it's Monster. And then there's like Prime is up there, which is really impressive to be honest.

19:13But Campbell's Soup is actually up there because they own V8 Energy. is apparently one of the top selling energy drinks in the country is because v8 i want to see like the geographical data on them like where in the country are we drinking v8 i'm in my head like it's wisconsin i have no data to prove that i'm like for sure it's wisconsin which is like cheese and tomato juice go really well together where my brain actually your brain makes it but the insight's interesting the insight's really interesting and the comparison to craft beer is also really interesting especially because it's in another beverage category just like the way the beverage moves is different than the way that snacks move on shelf um especially refrigerated beverages like there are only so many slots in any retailer for a refrigerated beverage of any kind And so they don't, I mean, distributors, if you go into any 7-Eleven, you'll see a ton of facings of like the same few brands in energy in a way that I think he's totally right.

20:22You don't really see that in other categories in the same way. There's a lot more variety. And what's interesting to me about energy too, is I do feel like existing brands have done a really great job of creating new SKUs. I think it's really easy to innovate on flavor. Yeah. So they have like a thousand different facings of Celsius, which comes in every possible flavor, but they don't have new brands. And as much as we don't necessarily need a new brand, if there are new flavors, consumers want variety. Right. Which is why like Gorgie is seeing success. And now all these Yerba Mate, different Yerba Mate brands, people are seeking something new and different.

21:05um not flirt but well i mean i actually think as much as i'm obviously so mad about flirt that is very validating that a company like monster which has all of the money in the world i'm sure to do consumer research was like we actually need another sub brand right what that actually indicates is not that we need another sub brand but that we just need new brands we need variety as mark was saying and obviously it's annoying that monster with all the distribution power and money could just stomp on them but but they can't because they do it poorly exactly and this is where the marketing side comes into play where it's like gorgie's a lot better at building a very strong and and yeah authentic consumer base where like monster might have a hard time with flirt because for two plus decades they've been targeting bros who buy their product to the gas station rather than the gorgy consumer um and and now unwell alex cooper's hydration beverage they launched a limited edition single skew energy drink in a can and they did cranberry which is as i texted you the other day i never noticed that that was such a prominent seasonal flavor until this year when everybody was coming out with the cranberry Yeah, I mean, it's been like a seasonal flavor, I think more from a culinary standpoint.

22:34Like people are all making their cranberry recipes, but I haven't really seen this many cranberry flavored limited edition skews as I have this year. But I feel like Unwell is kind of just trying a bunch of things on because I don't think they're doing very well. I mean, I don't have the numbers to prove that. I would love for somebody, Alex Cooper, please send us your sales data. We would love to dig into that. I think that that's what that's giving to me is like, okay, we're going to try hydration. We don't know about that. And then they tried a protein drink and they're like, ah, I don't know.

23:05Let's try energy. Like they're having an identity crisis. It appears. Yeah. I, I kind of feel that energy could really like win consumers over. I think they should have started with energy and not hydrating. Yeah. It looks good. Let's, let's go to our next little story. Kind of a big story. Whole Foods, Amazon, they're doing so many different things. I think we should start with the test, the store within a store test that they're doing in a Philly suburb, in the Philly area, where they're testing like Amazon pickup and ordering within the store, which is really interesting. I know you had some takes on that.

23:55I had some takes on it. So they're calling it a micro fulfillment center, MFC. And they are basically, yeah, as Nate said, a store, store within a store. So a little, a pickup counter in Whole Foods where you can pick up Amazon products that aren't otherwise carried on Whole Foods shelves. So I think the example in the press release was like, if you're shopping at Whole Foods, you can also pick up your goldfish, which goldfish are not offered on Whole Foods shelves because Whole Foods has very strict ingredient standards. And that's kind of like their whole thing is that they don't allow, even on a Whole Foods bag, it says on the back, like all of the ingredients that they don't allow in a Whole Foods store.

24:39And there's so much trust that they have earned with their consumers by being this company that doesn't allow a lot of ingredients that consumers don't want in their food. So it's really interesting to me. Basically, they're saying like, oh, it's great because you can do your entire grocery shop in one place. So you can get your Whole Foods stuff and you can still get the things that you would get at a conventional grocery store all in one place. The thoughts I have on it, I mean, like, yeah, convenience is king this is great in some ways but if you're still saying you can purchase all of these things at a whole food store it's kind of losing the one differentiator that it had from conventional stores yeah and the comparison I was talking about with you Nate earlier was Um, it feels a little bit like a CVS where it's like, you can't get your prescription drugs on shelves, but you can get it in the back of the store where you go to the prescription counter and you pick it up.

25:44And this is like the same thing. It's like, Oh no, no, we won't, we still won't allow those things on our shelves. You have to like, you can't get goldfish over the counter, but you can go to the back of the store and pick up your prescription or your Amazon order. Um, And it's all in one place still. And so it's like to be like, well, Whole Foods still doesn't allow it. But it does because it's in the back of the store. Right. And they still give brands a hard time about what's in their products if they have a certain type of sweetener or a certain type of whatever it is. what what amazon is trying to do with whole foods and their grocery business at large it's clear that like recently they've started to sort of solidify a strategy i don't know if the strategy fully is but they're solidifying something um but i mean they acquired whole foods years and years ago at this point for a lot of money and it feels like only recently now that they've sort of they haven't been so sure what to do with like their amazon fresh stores and their amazon grocery business that now they're like oh right we have whole foods we can do a bunch with this thing yeah like it's it's funny how long it took um but now now they're doing a lot they're they're opening more of those daily shop locations the the small uh like under 10 000 square foot store fronts which they opened one up in the upper east side um in september of 24 i went to the opening it was very fun um but apparently and this is data from whole foods that 42 percent of its shoppers over pretty much the year that they were open were new or re-engaged customers who hadn't visited any of the other New York City Whole Foods locations during that same period the previous year.

27:44And look, a New York consumer in a New York grocery experience is a weird one. Like, let's be honest. So those, I don't know if the daily shop or anything would work in other cities Because New York, those big Whole Foods around New York, it's great because they're basically a normal grocery store. They're just big and it becomes tedious. And I wonder if just like the daily shop is just easier for quick pickups, in and out, even just like more consistent shopping, which is like what a New Yorker generally does if they're not doing Fresh Direct or an Instacart delivery. Because you're just so close to all of these.

28:26And it's like, it's so much easier just to go in and out rather than to go to a big grocery store. Yeah, it's like bodega adjacent. Yeah, exactly. Which is a language that New Yorkers speak very fluently. I mean, yeah, the truth is, like, we love Whole Foods. And I think that's part of why I'm like, don't fix what isn't broken. Right, right. And like, if they want to become mass, then Amazon, just launch Amazon Fresh. But the thing is, as a grocery store, one of the reasons I think Amazon Fresh didn't work is because I think a lot of consumers don't fully care about the new technology call outs.

29:06They just want to go to a grocery store. They don't want to pay that much money. They want it to be easy. I think Amazon Fresh was leaning a lot into the tech side of that grocery store. And I think for a lot of consumers, that is just not top of mind. And especially now, I think people care about price and the types of food they're getting. And leaning into that aspect of Whole Foods is like really interesting. And I think the benefit that Whole Foods can get from Amazon, which I've been seeing, is better prices. It doesn't feel like it's Whole Paycheck anymore. And I don't know if that perspective is just me shopping around New York and a lot of local New York grocery stores are ridiculously expensive.

29:48But I have noticed at Whole Foods that they've been like emphasizing sales and deals more. And the prices have become a little bit more reasonable, which is, I think, good. Because pairing that with Whole Foods' whole vision on the ingredient profiles and being very deliberate about what types of products they put on shelves, I think is a beautiful pairing to get more people into eating better. Yeah, I agree. If it was just like they maintain all the same standards, but the prices are cheaper, like, yeah, that would be great. I don't know if that's like the most sustainable business model. But I think, yeah, I don't know if an Amazon Fresh would work simply because consumers don't associate Amazon with like quality food.

30:38Like it just takes so much, which is why buying Whole Foods in the first place was a really smart move. I mean, I don't need to tell Jeff Bezos that he's smart. He knows. But like it was a smart move. Got that big head. it's really easy to mess it up too, because it is, it, it was the kind of thing that it's like, okay, buy Whole Foods, but like, keep it as it is. It's, it's doing, it's doing just fine. And the more they're messing with it, the more that it feels like it's, it's putting Whole Foods reputation at stake and also Whole Foods employees. Like there just have been a lot of layoffs and it's just a tough time from the outside looking in to be affiliated with Whole Foods.

31:14So yeah, we'll see. Yeah. And now they're integrating all of their 100 ,000 plus Whole Foods employees, both corporate and frontline at the store, sort of into Amazon's own internal systems. And they're solidifying that back-end operations, which I'm very curious to see how that'll go, alongside the Whole Foods CEO becoming VP of Amazon grocery stores worldwide. So they're starting to have a little bit more of a strategy and a plan. And I'm really curious to see where Whole Foods goes over the next few years, especially with Amazon's fingers all over it. Absolutely. Yeah. The next story we wanted to cover actually is, like, kind of related.

32:01Kind of related? It's kind of related. Would Whole Foods sell? No, Whole Foods wouldn't sell these products. I don't think so. But a conventional product trying to appeal to the more, like, natural shoppers. The news is that PepsiCo, who owns Doritos and Cheetos, is launching a naked version with no vowels. Of course. Screw vowels. Screw vowels. It's very startup vibe coded. Startups in like 2010. No, exactly. Yes. Anyway. New line called Simply Naked, which is Doritos and Cheetos without any artificial flavors or dyes. guys. Apparently they are completely colorless, but tastes the same, which I don't even believe that's possible because I know what blue Cool Ranch tastes like and I taste blue and I want to taste.

32:52Yes. I taste Flaming Hot. It needs to have that color. It needs to, um, but they're going to be available December 1st. So it's the Nacho Cheese Cool Ranch Doritos and then Flamin' Hot But Cheetos also are not going to have any artificial flavors or dice. We talked about this in the news, Heather, but, like, who specifically is this for? Because we were talking about the die-free crowd is probably also this anti-processed foods crowd. And then, like, you and I who, well, I consume everything. I'm having a freaking C4 right now. it's a sour gummy splash if you're if the listeners are curious which is all natural flavors but yeah we're just like who specifically is this for this is mostly just like this is really just a marketing stunt also i don't know if it's a marketing stunt because i i mean i agree i don't know who it's for other than but i think it's for retailers because i think that a lot of retailers are going to have more strict ingredient standards um especially in this like make america healthy The again era.

34:02So I think that a lot of these brands are kind of preparing for retailers to start to say no to food dyes and artificial flavors, which also not like saying that's a bad – that's probably a net good thing. Sure. It's just – yeah. But I think it's for retailers so that they don't risk being kicked off shelf for not meeting certain ingredient standards. Right. This just feels so performative and weird, especially just because it's not the ethos of the brand. What is the ethos of the brand? Sell things? Trash? I don't know. Good trash. I think it's great trash. Good trash. Good trash. Look, I also think that, and to discuss this further, we should probably bring on a food scientist and probably a psychologist and a dietician, but people also consume stuff based off of color.

35:02Food and color have so much intrinsically attached to each other that, like, I don't want a naked Flaming Hot Cheeto. You might not. Yeah, but I also, but again, I'm like, who is this for? I think my bigger gripe with this is the health halo because people are going to see like wow it's naked it has no none of these like bathrooms in it it's still bad for you oh i looked at the nutrition facts like it's the same product sans color these aren't this isn't a better for you product but putting it in this like all white packaging with like simple and naked and these words that kind of feel like It sounds like it's coming from a tree.