BookMyShow Founder: Reality of Concert, Coldplay, Artist, Business Model & India | FO358 Raj Shamani

0:00Who says, why will we do Coldplay India in Ahmedabad? The band wanted to play in the world's largest cricket stadium. In the beginning, it sounded as a bizarre thought. They were scared, they would not be scared. And finally, it became the world's largest sponsor. We gave an economic lift of close to 700 crores to the city of Ahmedabad. Over two days. It's an expensive show. Our tickets were not expensive. Our ground tickets were 6 ,000 euros. In reality, people didn't get 6 ,000 euros. People got so much money. Because there was a bot attack by secondary ticket sites from all over the world. Seven departments coming after you.

0:29Do you think there are forces who want you to fit? Ashish Hemrajani, founder of BookMyShow. This was a movie ticket booking platform. And today, she is leading the economy of India's live events. In this episode, we will know who are leading business opportunities in India today. Which are the kind of artists which India wants to consume now? There's been a massive resurgence of independent music. Something like a whole place show. What do the demand? We've had artists in the past who would say that I want a bright purple potato vifers. And sometimes these writers are a trick because they want you to read everything.

1:03So you say that you're a cockroach. What do you mean by that? We survived. We went through the dot-com bust. We went from 150 people down to 6. We had zero revenues. I said we are survivors. Even till the end of the world. Where the maximum revenue comes from? Our live events business today gives us about 40 % of the revenue and now movies is down to 60%. Where is the next big opportunity? Air, water and food. We'll need all these three things. What's the origin of Book My Show? Smoking and drinking.

1:34Before we move on, subscribe to this channel so that we will make you more insightful and better podcasts. And this whole show is available on Spotify where you can follow us. Enjoy the show.

1:53Why would I do something in Ahmedabad? Because concerts of this size don't happen there usually. Yeah. and if you hear it's Mumbai, Delhi Bangalore because there's already like a there's an urban audience which is ready to pay, ready to commute and there's a ready market you guys be doing so many concerts there already yeah, why Ahmedabad? That was first, then second is why Ahmedabad? Because there's no alcohol as well Bombay we were anyways doing Coldplay, so that was done we were doing D.Y. Partly, we announced two shows the band wanted to play in the world's largest cricket stadium. It came as a thought from the band to say, why can't we play at the Narendra Modi Cricket Stadium?

2:40Okay. In the beginning, it sounded as a bizarre thought, right? For various reasons. Obviously, the band didn't know. Nobody knew. You cited it right. Infrastructure, alcohol, a cricket stadium, right? It's never been done before. Why Andhabad? will consumers come is there a large enough population that will come for that show do they understand the music all of that right a thousand questions we had a thousand questions so there was a lot of people internally externally who were like no no you can't a thousand reasons why we shouldn't but when somebody tells you no it really excites me it excites me to no extent as if someone doesn't say it doesn't matter but but but but but but but but so so so so

3:3170 % we'll do it for charity you do something right and it'll be funded Gujarat tourism there were ideas we said but but but but but but but but but but but but then I took it to the Gujarat Cricket Association and BCCI and just like how it got me excited, I shouldn't be saying it but Mr. Jaishah was supremely excited. I had a partner in crime. So I went back to the band the management, Live Nation and we said look it's happening but there are some changes, here are the things now we got into execution mode and I'll tell you the execution mode was A. What should the pricing be? Who is going to come for the concert?

4:30Will people come? Will it be locally from Gujarat? Will they come from outside? If they come from outside do we have enough trains? And that time the problem was I spoke to we spoke to the railway minister he's a great guy Kummela was on all the trains were busy with Kummela Yeah, Mr. Ashwini Vashnab. And his office, his secretary was very, very helpful. He said, it's hard, but let's work on it. The challenge was, how do you transport people there? Because even if people were to come, what's the infrastructure of hotels? So Ahmedabad's infrastructure has really improved, right? You look at the riverbanks, the roads, access to the stadium, access out.

5:15There's a metro line that terminates at the stadium. So you can transport people. but getting into the city there aren't enough flights from Bombay, from Bangalore how do people come and when we sold the tickets there was a lot of controversy around that as well but I mean I'm happy to talk about it but when we analyzed it about 75 % of the people are coming out of Gujarat because we have a zip code we have a ticket to send you to home we have an address mobile number, email id 75 % of the people Gujarat के भार से आ रहे है 25 % Gujarat से आ रहे है जिसमें से 50 % are coming from Ahmedabad 25 टकामे से या 40 % तो बाकी drive करके आएंगे और भार से जो आएंगे वो कैसे आएंगे उनको तो flight चाहिए अतनी flights हैं ही नहीं हमने analyze किया अगर आप 1 ,11 ,000 ticket बेज रहे हैं if you have 80 ,000 tickets per show 1 ,60 ,000 people in two days and you divide one flight, 200 seats there was no flights mathematics you can't cheat what you say how will you how will you that was a big challenge the second was that 15 days later a international game India, England how do you protect the ground because you cover the ground and tons and tons tons and tons of material hydras forklifts it's not material on the end stage how do you protect the pitch because if you have seen the stage it has a runway and it has a b stage and it has a c stage b stage sits on top of the pitch and you have a turf how does that protect the turf how does that grass give you water so we had a pitch curator who was working for over a year on pitch and ground to protect and weight and tonnage can be and how can go and analysis to come go pitch come to do How much depression will it?

7:21How much grass will grow? Translucent will be? Light and UV rays will go? How much water will it? After the release, how much fog lifts will come? Then we will release cover and then we will add new cover. How much levels will it go? after removing the damage we have to revive it how to revive it we have to create a platform on the pitch and the substitute pitches we have to put grow lights UV lights if it is dark it will mirror the UV lights of the sun and the grass cover it will not be bad how much roller will be it was a whole exercise it was a different exercise altogether so there were a lot of twists and turns then food and beverage loss because alcohol is not will that substitute if we have not sold alcohol because Gujarat is prohibited so people will come will they enjoy will they have the same experience so what we did was there were extra flights which came from Bombay we have told all the connections if you come from Bombay and you come from Pune you come from Bangalore or any other city you can take a train and we had extra trains which the railway ministry gave us from Bombay which could come to the place then metros we had such a timing that people could then leave the same night because enough hotel inventory was not and finally it became the world's largest sponsor over two days and like I said 75 % of the population came from outside of Gujarat and they all came in safely they all went safely they didn't miss alcohol they had the world's greatest experience okay this show was the had two things.

9:09One, this was one of the few rare shows which was live streamed and live recorded. Live stream show was a live show. If you go to Geostar for one year, this is live. You can see. There were 28 cameras used. Spider cam was used, which was the first time. We had extra lights, lasers, never in the show. This was a very unique show. Plus, our one show was the 26th January. There was a national anthem. everybody stood up the national colors were there and it was a celebration so it all came together and if we show 26 January we can do anything else in India anyways dry day you can't serve alcohol so if we do in Bombay it was dry day so it all worked out it's an expensive our tickets were not expensive our ground tickets were 6 ,000 rupees it was the cheapest anywhere in the world and we purposely kept it that way we said we want to give the opportunity to as many people that's why our tickets were the cheapest anywhere in the world.

10:07Ground care ticket, take it. 6 ,000 rupiah ki ticket to stand right near the stage. $80. It was the cheapest ticket. But, reality-mean tickets to logu 6 ,000 men he didn't get, loguho kaafi mehengi get. That's a different fiasco. 3 ,70 ,000 logu hain, unko 6 ,000 men get. Ground tickets. And then there were various prices. Ab kisne kisko bicha? Kisne kaan koonse source se khari di? I can't control that. that's not my hand which is so loud that in black marketing we have blocked tickets we have not done we have done this our stand is clear our time is clear our time is our IMI number our mobile number our unique identity transaction ID email address mobile number our home is our home is our home is so if you have 3 ,70 ,000 people or 3 ,60 ,000 people that you have that you have 4 ,000 people divide I will have a lot of people who have a house.

11:07Today you can see. So, Supreme Court, High Court, Police, all cases were all. Every home address is the same. We have to courier tickets. Physical tickets. Why did you get so allegations in black? Actually, the ticket was 25-30-50-30. And starting, it was 1-1 ,000 ,000 ,000. Correct. Which platform is the platform illegal in India? Law enforcement. ban karei wo toh mera kaam nahi hai wo company should not exist because secondary ticket market is not allowed in India toh how can that how can those two or three companies which are foreign entities which have their offices in Estonia are selling tickets in India in the secondary market which are illegal by law is my job to go and shut them down then why are people calling you that you did it this is see this is where people go hysteria social media cancellation to economy become that cancel to say good to say good to say say good say now supply demand what can do if there are million people in the queue the queue was transparent and ticket only 350 ,000 tickets and if 4 people can buy math divide if if have 4 people have Bombay, we opened it, there were 1.5 lakh tickets.

12:3450 ,000-50 ,000 were two shows and the third show was 50 ,000. You divide that by four. Right? So, if you look at that, per show, 12 ,000 people can watch it. 36 ,500 individuals could buy the tickets in a country of 1.4 billion people in a city of 20 million population. Out of which, 35 % of the population was from Maharashtra. and if you say 25 % were from Bombay 10 % was from the rest of outside of Bombay 65 % of the people that came to Bombay to watch the show of us were outside of Bombay so if your neighbor got a ticket you didn't get a ticket you didn't get a ticket you didn't get a ticket if it was 12 ,000 people then what can I do that is supply demand I don't have the ability to do more than 5 shows we had 5 shows we sold the tickets there was a queue number what had happened is where the only fault was that in the first show when we opened the queue, our systems crashed and the reason it crashed for 7 minutes because there was a bot attack.

13:38There was a bot attack by secondary ticket sites from all over the world and we have to prove it to law enforcement and in the courts and they saw the data. Millions and millions of bots had hit our system to pick up tickets and the first queue we had kept, why was it linear? why kept it? It's a mistake. If you have token in your waiting room, you have 1, 2, 3, 4 linear. So the bots could hack into that system and therefore the bots had taken over the first show. So what we did was that we reset the servers. So we had to repel 7 minutes. So the people who came in had to be re-initialized into the queue number.

14:19That was an error. But it was a genuine error and omission. it was not that we had 7 minutes we crashed and we took a ticket and sent us to another site and sent us to another site people forget that we are not just promoters our ticketing platform if I have this ticket is more than I have to send us then I will not increase my platform for price I will not increase 30 % why do I do commission just think logic if I have to if I have to think if I have to send us to another nobody can stop me I can sell it on book my show what we then did we changed the process next waiting room that we called it a waiting room if you come to the waiting room we gave you a randomized ticketing token ID in that randomized ticketing ID we repelled a lot of the bots because they could not you get a random ID so we changed the process and then from when we reopened the second show and the third show in Bombay then the first show in Ahmedabad and second everything went off smoothly we had more than seven departments after us we had multiple police cases it was relentless we were going to department after department after department after department we had summons against us we have spent how many hours and time on giving statements and summons not because i was hiding behind me as a leader in the company our team we proved we opened our databases we showed everything but seven departments coming after you this big fiasco do you think there are forces who want you to shut down no no i think this can't be just like normal people trying to do no see there was voice they won't actually curate such kind of stuff look the support from the central government the support from the gujarat government and the support from the maharashtra government across law enforcement across this thing was phenomenal they saw the value and they said we gave an economic lift of close to 700 crores to the city of Ahmedabad.

16:19700 crores with economic impact. Over two to three days. Yeah. The Honorable Home Minister Harsh Sangvi who did a who initialized instituted I am Ahmedabad study came up with this lift that we did a 700 crore lift to the economy of Ahmedabad. Why wouldn't anybody want this? He himself was very proud of the achievement. He's come up and made statements and I meant not the government officials I meant maybe the competitors. No, I don't think I know. Look till I don't have proof of that I think it's just loose dog to blame anybody it's uncool I don't think that is the case I think this was some overzealous people who did not get a ticket they used which is available to everybody the might of the law they went to court some department thought that they should investigate because it was so in your face and the media just hyped it up to no extent which i think has to be measured right i think some fault lies there without you know understanding the crux of the matter they just hyped it because it was such a hot potato um every department felt it was their moral duty and responsibility why is there so much noise i think that was the only reason that it snowballed You said 700 crore economy boost Yeah For one city Yes Over a weekend Over a weekend Right How How do 700 crore How do you win Employment Hotels Airlines Food Travel Merchandise Spends in the city When people come We calculated Per person What was the average spend When they came into Ahmedabad Not from the locals Then there was an expanded View of the people that were outside the city but from gujarat and people that came from other parts of the country what did what was the gst the gst impact was 72 crores the overall impact was about 650 or close to 700 crores the direct impact was about 250 crores which was a direct impact so we broke it down into four or five we got ernest and young to do a full report we released a massive report How much does some show like let's say Coldplay cost?

18:40The biggest stadium you did, Narendra Modi Stadium. Just give me an approximate cost. You can't give me an exact cost. I don't remember but I don't think it will be less than 30-40 crores. Can't be less than that. Just a setup. And then there's the artist. Then artist because see what happens is over there you have permissions. You have security. You have local law enforcement. You've got to pay for local law enforcement. because they're coming from different parts of the state. There's cost of goods sold. There's merchandise, there's food wastage. There's security, barricading, infrastructure, setup, transport, travel, travel boarding, lodging, internal transport.

19:22Now, in the case of this show, ground cover. Now, there was only enough material which we own to cover one stadium. the second stadium did not have the material like we needed drivables and ground cover so i called my friends in israel and some of the material was lying in georgia we did a trans shipment of half the material from haifa port in israel because of the situation that they were not using it they're great friends of mine half the material came from israel half the material went from georgia by road and then it went trans shipment to greece and from greece it came to Bombay so two shipments have come from there to be able to do the second show material has come from Southeast Asia on some materials for the staging and delay towers some of the delay towers we own so it was a global supply chain which had to arrive at a certain point get cleared transported internally so therefore the costs went up because see if it was a show where we could reach in four hours to the next city.

20:28But we had to have concurrent setups because if we were doing three shows in Bombay and two shows there, there was a concurrent setup. So Costco. In some cases, when you're traveling and you're doing, like in the case of Ed Sheeran, we had two stage. So we would do one stage in Pune. The second stage was being set up in Hyderabad. So the Pune stage would then jump to Chennai. And the Hyderabad stage would then jump to Bangalore. And then that stage would go. But then the stage that we use between Bhutan and Shillong, it could not be a part of this rig. Because the time taken to go to Bhutan and unrig that stage, we could not make the Delhi show.

21:06So normally you would have two stages which would jump. In this case, we had three stages because Shillong and Bhutan were sharing one stage because Shillong was the second last show in the run and Bhutan was the first show. So we could share that stage. So there's too many complications. Like I said, there's no straight answer. what's the what's the technical or an artist radar for something like coldplay show what do they demand what do they ask for look i've known apart from like lights shows like is there something two or three highlights which makes coldplay show different no look it is a very immersive experience right and there's a lot of love and connect with the with the fans i mean i just think they're just masters of their art and they're very passionate about what they do whether it's the whole touring team the management, the band itself they just love what they do they love the connection with the fans the music is phenomenal I think one of the highest loved and most loved bands in the country every song the fans know there is unlimited demand for an artist like that but they're just good people they're just inherently good people I think the Zylo bands Create a beautiful immersive experience What is that in Zylo bands?

22:27This is RF technology And what happens is With the Zylo bands You can control it With the music And the light To have a shared experience So you can do a flag Of the Indian color You can have different colors You can When people are at a stadium You can actually Write stuff Based on people's bands So rather than Putting out your phone And not enjoying that experience And putting up lights you don't need to do that and in fact there are points in the show where uh i think chris tells people that put your phones in your pocket put your hands in the air right and then there's um there's fireworks and there's pyros and there's immersive experience to share that music otherwise you can listen to music at home right and i think that's why the shows are getting bigger and bigger and bigger whether it's the the led screens whether it's what the band does for uh for the environment uh how how firm and strongly they believe and stand for it it connects with a lot of people and it also inspires the youth right when you're there and uh but is there something something extra that you've heard from someone like coldplay or ed or travis this is what i need Look, they're very high demanding artists.

23:41That's the reason that's so big. That's why they are where they are because they want perfection in everything that they do. Perfection in the sound, the lighting, the rig. What do they ask extra? No, every artist has riders. We've had artists in the past who would say, I want Doritos chips on the right side of my bed with this ketchup. And sometimes these riders are a trick because they want you to read everything. And some things are just not possible. and you somebody in my artist team goes and said this is not possible and they're like it's okay like what like it could be something really bizarre that i want to uh bright purple uh potato wafers the color of the potato wafer should be bright purple that's not possible maybe it's not possible so somebody says that this is not possible or something is not available in india if there's an alternative but it's just to check that you've read the writers right the fine print How much do they charge?

24:35Like what do you think? No it ranges From How much does it charge To get like a green day? Look For you There will be different costs I'm sure No it's not just different costs See Lola Paludza We have a very different Method of working We have a Artist budget And we work backward There is the headline fee For the artist On day one day two And then there is A sub headline Then there is So we have a It's a format And it makes our job harder Because paying any sort of money to get an artist is not what we do then it's not a business like i said this is not a passion project it's a business and therefore for lola paludza we have an artist budget which is purely based on number of tickets brands that participate costs that are there and so we have a number so we do this in partnership with c3 who are our partners um and charlie walker is a great mate of mine and and we work very hard it's the third year now in a row hugely successful turn the corner we're now prepping for 2026 we will now announce at some point the dates and eventually the lineup so it's business it's it's work where this franchise has to grow over a period of time same with bandland same with sunburn sunburn's in its 17th year and so you have to work backward a one-off show of a of a green day will be very different from a multi-tour within India because the costs get differed, right?

26:05They are deferred over or shared across three markets, five markets. If it's a part of a run, then the cost differs. Give me some number. Coldplay, Green Day, anyone. I don't think it's fair for me to share artist numbers, but I'll tell you the bigger bands. The bigger bands can go from a million and a half to eight million. Could be the artist fees. could be anywhere in that range then you have bands which are within the 150k to a million but the point is and it also matters whether they want to do it whether it's a versus deal whether you're paying a minimum guarantee some artists are like pay me a flat guarantee I don't care some artists are I'll give you a lower guarantee but you give me a you give me a yeah so you give me a spillover right so you do a you do a beyond a certain amount you do a share.

27:03And there are some artists who are saying I want to play the market I'll do a pure versus deal. You don't pay me anything. Let's co-produce together. Exactly. So as the trust in the market built so you know India was a flat guarantee market. There was no trust in the market. That is the reason what I was trying to tell you earlier we jumped into this business out of accident and out of need and desperation because the acts were unwilling to come to India. We had one act in 10 years like a big act then nobody would come. and the reason was that there was no trust in the market people were under declaring tickets not paying taxes not sharing the data with the artists under declaring revenues short changing the consumer health and safety issues food and beverage was short changed and all the money was being taken by the promoter by saying i don't care about the consumer i don't care about the government i don't care about the artists i only care about myself and that is the truth that is why nobody scaled this.

28:00All the money was being taken home. Basically, it was daylight robbery. Government also, in its wisdom, for whatever reason, e-tax was very high. It was anywhere between 28 % to 45%. You can't do business. When the GST was 28%, during the pandemic, that's another thing that I did. I went to the Minister of State for Home and the Finance Minister at that time and Minister of State for Finance. So she put me on to the Minister of State for Finance, who I know and I reasoned with him he was very very gracious he called his GST department he's saying Ashish you'll have to go through the process we went through four cycles of submissions and the government dropped the GST and it was an advantage which went to the whole industry it wasn't for me I was obviously a beneficiary but they saw the wisdom and they dropped the GST from 28 % to 18 % and zero up to 499 we are still working with them to say look if this has to scale we still need nationalization and it has to be done in a staggered manner so i think infrastructure public infrastructure spending as you've seen there has to be more infrastructure it's we still struggle in india with venues stadiums arenas staging safety security ingress egress getting to a stadium parking metro lines or train stations going under the stadium or an arena Having enough of them The biggest challenge for artists growth Indian artists growth has been We don't have venues which are 50 % rooms, 100 % room A 250 % room Going to 500 Then going to an auditorium which is 1500 Then 2500 An arena of 5000 to 8000 Arenas of 15000 to 20000 And then stadiums and festival grounds We have bars and restaurants Where you can play at a small place and nobody cares And everybody is doing cover versions or straight away there's a stadium on open field.

29:53You don't have anything in between. There's no career path. Any global artist on the live side went through this career path globally. And there was a culture of going out that was built where you could go and watch. We don't have that. And therefore with us, with festivals, that becomes extremely important for discovery of new music. When you come to Lola Pluts and you're seeing 40 artists, you may come for a Green Day or a Sting or Imagine Dragons. You may come for a Shawn Mendes. But you're discovering Naroha. You're discovering Junita Gandhi. You're discovering Niladri Kumar, who's one of the greatest electric sitar players and he did a live set with 5 ,000 people standing to watch him.

30:31Right? And kids standing to watch him. And so, with 20, 25 Indian artists, Hanuman Kain's set was phenomenal, right? So many fresh people who had not seen Hanuman Kain, may have heard his music, but not seen his entire set, were there. So, I think festivals are a great way of giving Indian artists who are supremely talented but never got the big stage or did not get a large enough audience for them to try out or experiment or get initialized with their music. Festivals do that. Tell me, the concert start how do you start? Like, how do you who says that we will do Coldplay India? Like, where do you think the idea is that Coldplay will be in India or in India viable all of this how do you decide no this

31:26we work with other partners as well first of all these stores are expensive so if there is a store ready in the market and they are performing in North America then they are doing Europe then they are doing Australia New Zealand then they are coming to Asia so our cycle has to be between October and May at best May bhi very warm So in this cycle Either You are putting in shows with South Africa Middle East or you are doing something with Southeast Asia Or Australia Because one off If there is a big band One off Neither band can make money Neither you can make money It's hard It has to be multiple sides It's a part of a tour That is number one Number two Then the artist needs to connect with his fans He or she needs to believe that India is an important market.

32:21Now here is where we are looking for shows actively between October and May. And there's a bunch of things that goes into the analysis. What do we see on Spotify, YouTube music, what is your stats? Then we look at other professional sites which we subscribe to. Then there's an art. there's a lot of science which will tell you this but you look at trend we have people within our company which understand music and our musicians and our curators so there's a whole bunch of people that are constantly analyzing what are the path making trends when we had Suraj who was Hanuman kind Lola Palooza 1 and 3 he also played Coachella Dilji did a collab with me with Ed Shirin he also played Coachella AP did Lola won he also played Coachella so we you know are good curators we are good judge of what we do Jonita played main stage for us for Ed we had opening acts from Mali from Dot Kayaan Arman obviously so we worked with a bunch of Indian artists and only the glory goes to the western acts where we did 40 to 50 shows we did 900 we sold tickets for 900 shows in India Indian artists 900 shows in a year we are constantly looking that someone has to develop a career and are we doing bigger shows what does the artist want had come the first time turf club 12 ,000 people low ticket price many years later he came back then we had 12 ,000 people for a show but much higher ticket price cut to March last year 55 ,000 people in the round at the turf club so 12 ,000 very low ticket price, 11 ,000 very high ticket price 55 ,000 high ticket price and then we did a show of 8 cities with Ed between when Coldplay happened just after that, Bhutan then we had Puna Hyderabad Chennai Bangalore Shillong Delhi and the artist wanted it Ed wanted to go deep in the country he loves the country and he said I want to do an end stage format you all produce it and I want to go deep it was his aspiration we analyzed with cities how was it going to be easy hard what was possible what wasn't possible what rigs and stages can go how do we share rigs between North East and Calcutta and Shillong and Bhutan because the borders are closed.

35:14How do the trucks go to those borders? Then from there, the head of the truck, how do customs get cleared? How will the head of the truck change? Because the drivers have to be different for Bhutan because they know how to drive on those. So it was complicated. It was a logistic. Even doing the shows between Ahmedabad and Bombay, we had two rigs and two stages and two coverings, but a lot of the rig was common. how do you get to move 39 to 40 trucks between Bombay and Ahmedabad within a very short period of time because our Bombay show was Tuesday and next show on Ahmedabad was Saturday there wasn't enough time so we did two dry runs with GPS track trucks with that much weight because truck is empty in 40 foot container if there is no tonnage it moves faster then we had two runs of tons of material between Bombay and Ahmedabad Maharashtra Police and Gujarat Police gave me a corridor a place between Maharashtra and Gujarat where the road work is running so normally what should take you the car is fast but the truck will take you 12-16 hours, 18 hours was taking 36-40 hours because there is a traffic jam So they created a blue corridor for us.

36:33Wow. Where we took that ton of truck and we did a GPS tracking on alternative routes on how to get there within 18 hours. And then this movement happened where Bombay ka show Tuesday ko khatam hoha. So people who came for Saturday and Sunday would have seen a very different exit plan than Tuesday. Because Tuesday ko we had to tear down the stage and tear down the equipment very quickly. work within 4 hours load the trucks and move them and get them within 16 to 18 hours to Ahmedabad so that the load in can happen in Ahmedabad so it's a logistical nightmare so it's quite interesting when you break down the challenges and problems on how do you put up the show so we have to decide on movement of trucks equipment, cost artists, pricing their pricing their ability and their need and want to play stats pricing to the end consumer in some cases brands is it acceptable to brands or no so there's a lot of math and decisioning that goes in which goes into a pot and then it's an art at the end of the day but none of this like in the past which you would have seen is based on personal preferences this is a business it's not because I like an artist I want that artist of course I would love it but if I like it I'll go somewhere else and watch the show it's not my passion project it's not a party that i'm throwing for myself to charge people money it's a business and it's meant it's meant to be value accretive to my fans and the customers and if they see value in it then we'll do it if we can make money and there is this thing we'll do it it's not something that i want true all this time it's been i want this artist because it's my personal need and preference that is what was happening till we jumped into this business We got into this business by chance in 2018.

38:27Till then, we were just a platform. There were various reasons why grudgingly we got into this business in 2018. And then we've only thought about things differently. And that's why it's scaled up. We're creating a new industry. It didn't exist, right? It was a mom and pop industry. Because most of the companies were doing B2B shows. They were doing launch conferences. They were doing weddings. We don't do weddings. We don't do launch conferences. is we don't do b2b anything which touches an end consumer point which is ticketed is what book my show does i'll tell you one of the first things i heard about you from somebody and i learned that lesson and it was really good i don't even know if you've said that yeah it's just like somebody said something about you and i yeah i felt it was good and i in my head i keep giving you credits for it it's a cockroach theory yeah have you said it oh you said it okay many times perfect then so You say that you're a cockroach.

39:21Yeah. What do you mean by that? Tell me in your words. I love it when I heard it for the first time. I want everybody to hear it from you. So, you know, when I started, when I founded Book My Show along with my co-founders. And for the first 10 years of our journey as Book My Show's journey. By the way, the name of the company is Big Tree Entertainment. And that hasn't changed, right? In 25, we're in the 26th year. and so for the first 10 years we were told india will go the u.s way all right copy everything from the u.s and india will go the u.s way then came a second wave of entrepreneurs and we were told for the next 10 years or at least what you heard is that india will go the china way and i kept telling people india will go the india way right there's there's no other way uh you have to be proud of who you are who your consumers are the moment you try to emulate what's happening in the u.s or China or anyone else you're setting yourself up for failure you can learn from some lessons you can't say that we are going that way and in those conversations the one thing that always came about is and I find that I find certain things about and I was born and raised in this country I was born and raised in Bombay right in a 500 meter radius like I made the big move 10 years ago 500 meters down the road so it's not like I'm looking at an outside view or a western view but the one thing that really pisses me off in India is disappointing is that we don't celebrate entrepreneurs for entrepreneurship.

40:53We celebrate celebrities. We celebrate being famous. We celebrate how much money do you have, which car you come and what watch you have. It was in context to this unicorn question that kept coming up that are you unicorn? And then one day I told him brother what is unicorn what is unicorn he said unicorn so I said unicorn means a horse on which a horn is a horn he said yes sir I said have you seen a horse with a horn he said no sir I said it's a mythical animal it's not real so you are asking me so he said you have said something you have said you have not unicorn so what is I said cockroach so he said what do you mean by cockroach so I said now we survive now we went through the dot com bust in 2000 we went through the dot com bust we went from 150 people down to 6 including an office helper and then we went through the global financial crisis in 2008 and then the biggest one for us was the pandemic because we were wiped out we had zero revenue, zero anything and so somebody said what do you mean by cockroach I said we are survivors we will survive a nuclear blast we will open a microwave oven you will find us there we will survive we will be there even till the end of the world so in context to this unicorn question I was said then I think over the years somebody caught on to this right and they said I know you are going to say cockroach okay give us another animal that you it was like a question for a zoo so I said we are mongrels.

42:40So he said what do you mean by mongrels? I said look we are very appreciative if somebody comes and pets you and we are very gracious when somebody gives you something but we are survivors. It's a dog fight out there. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Some days you've got to run and hide if there's a pack of dogs and some days it's a street fight you've got to fight. So we are dogs. I think the cockroach theory was very interesting because I think at least me when I look back in my journey or jitne mere friends jitne entrepreneurs I think majority of us entrepreneurs are cockroaches only yeah jinnnye bhi survived ke like cockroaches just bang on yeah koi unicorn ni hum guch ni hum cockroaches hum survive karte so or survive karte karte from a cockroach you end up becoming like a vulture or eagle or whatever you wanna so Raj you know one of the things about while we're on this subject of cockroach I think few lessons to draw from it are that keep your ego in check.

43:39You know, don't think you're bigger than anything, but don't make out to be more than who you are and what you are. And the moment you keep your ego in check, you tend to learn a lot. You respect consumers. You look at things around you on what more can you build? What are the other things? And I think more than survival, I'll tell you, if you contextualize this in the parlance of business or entrepreneurship. I think companies that do well over a period of time are the ones that manage their down cycle or downturn better. And that's the piece about the survival piece. So it's not just about survival for eternity, but it's about survival and managing that survival in the downturn.

44:31Look, as a sailor, I keep saying that, that when you've got high winds, it equalizes all sailors. You can't tell the difference between skill because in high wind sailing, it's very easy. It's the low wind sailing that makes true sailors. Adjusting the sails and doing the right things because you can't moan and complain about the sun, the tide, the wind, anything. All you can do as a sailor is adjust your sails. And so again, it's a very inward looking theory rather than complaining and looking outward. so as sailors you're always looking inward number one and secondly it's about low wind sailing and that's the analogy with cockroaches as well that if you can survive or flourish or get better ahead or get better during the downturn when the winds are high and when you have tailwinds everybody does well that is easy so what's the origin of book my show where did you come from start how did you come from how did you come from tickets like how did it come smoking and drinking yeah so I don't smoke but I worked in an advertising agency so that time you saw that series Mad Men on Netflix India was exactly like Mad Men Laundry would have advertising all of them smoke carpet window AC all of them smoke so it was a very I used to love my job it was a very unhealthy environment to be in constant smoke around so I said I have a break I had a break I had a 6 ,000 salary and I got the I did the best as a flunky as a management trainee so I got a massive raise and I think no, 8 ,000 salary and I got a massive raise my next year's salary was 8 ,000 so 500 ,000 my best friend today my co-founder he's a brother to me he was working in South Africa he was actually in Botswana so we did our MBA together he went off he said I'll try and take a shot at things there so I said I'm coming over to see you and I heard a radio commercial trying to sell rugby tickets online and this was an alien concept to me India was a pigeonhole for a ticket to sell you went to a movie theater timing that your box office is open from this time then in the afternoon there was a lunch break and then it would open again and there used to be dress circle no there used to be advance and current counters I don't know how old you are maybe you don't remember you are too young you look young so I am 51 there was a advance and there used to be a current counter so you have to choose advance ticket to take current and within that there were three pigeon holes one used to be like the railway it used to be stall balcony and dress circle so you had to choose that I am standing in advance or current line and then you have to choose which counter you want to go to which section and if the guy was sold out then you go back to the line and you used to sit on the steps waiting for the box office to open up and more often than none the guy at the box office was hand in glove with a paan ki do kaan across all movie theaters in the country across all stadiums in the country cricket stadiums everywhere and the black tickets were being sold at the paan shop at the paan shop so the guy is saying it's sold out he knows the demand of the number of people outside he said it's gone and it's available there so this was the scene so for me to listen to this radio commercial trying to sell rugby tickets online and saying that you can buy online you'll get your tickets in advance you'll get 10 % discount on food and beverage and merchandise they're incentivizing you to buy advance tickets online I said this is magical so anyways I thought through that and it was in my mind and I kept mulling over the idea through the trip so this was under a big tree at Storms River Valley between Joburg and Cape Town that's why today the name of the company is the big tree entertainment private limited that's the name of the company that's the genesis so it has its roots in South Africa we reached a place called Stellenbosch which is near Cape Town youth hostel you know it's the wine growing region of South Africa like our Nasik Valley Napa Valley in US it's the you can go for wine tasting and all where did we go to wine tasting I was 24 years old so they said but this is something to do so what they do for this wine tasting is that you pay 10 rands local South African currency and they give you 5 shot glasses of wine different different wine and in some vineyards it's free so most people we don't know about this culture people used to take wine they'll smell it and then they take it through the palate and the teeth and then what it does to the palate, the burst of flavors and then you spit it out.

49:58I come from a country of scarcity that time 99. I'm a sindhi yaar. Anything free in life is valuable yaar. Free mein koji kuch bhi dhe dao. Aap yo coffee cup lelo me ghar le jau ga. To free mein wine dee raha hai. Mein souch ra hain, yo look spit kyun kar raha yaar. Itni achi kasi wine, itni mehngi wine. Toh 11 bajay soveray se 3 bajay dupair taar. Aamne 5 vinyards mein wine tasting ghi. Toh 5 glasses into five 25 glasses wine ke piliye my head was spinning pata nahi us mahal mein hua kya next morning I woke up at the youth hostel in a bunk bed joomira hi nahi my kisi or kef bistre piso ya pata nahi where was a in the meantime I have a message that I quit so that's how victory of book my show started it started with smoking and it ended with drinking and bola I am coming back came back without a job business plan and facts she'd send so facts that time I sent was a one one and a half pager which was almost like an elevator pitch to Chase Capital Partners JP Morgan and the guy who invested in me Bharat Keval Ramani and Anil Ahuja were you from an affluent family I was from a middle class family born and raised in Bombay but we as kids were never made to feel middle class in the sense that I'm a kid of immigrant parents both my mom and dad came from Pakistan when the 1947 partition happened we were never made to believe or feel we were secondary to anything so when you ask me were we well-to-do we were in our heads and in our outlook to life in hard cash we were not then why do you think Bharat invested in you your first investor when there was no background no previous track record no traction like in paper you were not even from like a big shot company or a job position why would somebody give 2 crores and that time it was not even today I can still think somebody can raise 2 crores it's much easier today that time an alien concept I'll tell you something I think people have lost their way on analysis paralysis over analysis paralysis even I'm an angel investor I'm more than 30-35 investments and you get some right you get some wrong and i think that's what i guess investing was all about and should be is that you look at the market opportunity very quickly you should have that it's a science but it's also an art right it's intuition you look at a market opportunity you look at the idea and the more most important thing is you look at the guy in front of you you look him in the eye you look at the first handshake and you look at can you do business with the guy.